Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - FACE OF FEAR: IRYNA'S GUT-WRENCHING LOOK OF TERROR WHEN FATALLY STABBED BY CON OUT ON BOND

Episode Date: September 12, 2025

Ukrainian refugee Iryna Zarutska, just 23-years-old, leaves her homeland to start a new life in The United States, along with her family. Known for her love of animals and art, Iryna dreams of becoming  a veterinary assistant. Her tight-knit family supports her as she adapts to life in the U.S. Mastering english and landing work at a pizza restaurant. But one Friday night after work, things takes a terrifying turn that could have possibly been avoided, according to some lawmakers.  After her shift, Iryna boards Charlotte North Carolina Transit System, unknowingly sitting in front of Decarlos Brown Jr., a man with a violent past and rap sheet. Without warning, Decarlos Brown pulls out a pocketknife, stands, and lunges over the seat, stabbing Iryna in the neck. As he walks away, blood dripping from the knife onto the train floor, Iryna fights desperately for her life, clutching her neck, but unable to call for help.  Passengers just watch, some recording the brutal attack and her bleeding out, as others flee in panic, doing nothing to help the dying passenger, Iryna. Decarlos Brown paces the train, changes his shirt and calmy exits the train at the next stop. Her fatal stabbing has generated national outrage after the video of the killing was released and the suspect was identified as having a history of violent crimes and should be in jail. The Public questions how a repeat offender was free to roam. Decarlos Brown Jr., 34, was charged with committing an act causing death on a mass transportation system and is beinh held without bond. Joining Nancy Grace today, Kelly Hyman - Trial & Civil Attorney, TV Legal Analyst, Podcast Host: "Once Upon a Crime In Hollywood", Twitter: @kellyhyman1, TikTok: @kelly.hyman, Instagram: @Kelly_Hyman1  Dr. Sue Cornbluth - Family and Relationship Expert,  Owner of Dr. Sue & You, Author of “Building Self-Esteem in Children and Teens Who Are Adopted or Fostered “, www.DrSueAndYou.com, YouTube: DrSueAndYou Tom Green - Former Chief Deputy Washoe County Sheriff’s Office; Homicide Detective & Cold Case Squad Burglary/Fraud Detective; high tech surveillance & covert surveillance. Currently a Private Investigator, Owner Nevada Investigative Services LLC Joseph Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan", @JoScottForensic Lauren Conlin - Podcaster/Reporter/Host- Co-Host of "PopCrimeTV" on YouTube,  Website: www.popcrime.tv and primetimecrimeshow.com,  X- @Conlin_Lauren, Instagram: @LaurenEmilyConlin, YouTube: @PopCrimeTV See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The face of fear, Arena's gut-wrenching look of terror when she is fatally stabbed by a convict, of course, out on bond. Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime stories.

I want to thank you. Thank you for being with us. At just 23 years old, refugee Irene Zerutska leaves everything behind to start a new life in the United States with her family. She dives right in, making friends, taking care of her neighbors, and exploring new places. Her future seems bright, but the American dream isn't as promising as she hoped. Just shaking us to the core that this beautiful young girl leaves your Christ to come here, to chase the American dream, to leave the violence, the poverty, the war-torn drama

in Ukraine. And she makes it. Her dream comes true. She comes to the U.S. only to be stabbed dead on public transportation by a guy with arrest now bordering on 20 arrests, 14, that we know. Look at her. She's minding her own business. Oh, dear. This is the guy. And these are just a few of the photos, let me say, the photos I have of him. There are so many more. Why did Irina have to die? This is causing reverberations all the way to DC.

Listen. On August 22nd, Arena Zarutska was stabbed to death on the rail system in Charlotte, North Carolina by a savage career criminal. This is a public transportation system that many in the area use every single day to go to school and work. Arena was on the train that night traveling home from her job at a pizzeria still in uniform from her shift. This beautiful, innocent, 23-year-old young woman was a Ukrainian refugee who had recently fled. fled her country for a chance at a safer life and a promising new beginning here in the United States of America. Irina is traveling on the East-West Boulevard Light Rail Station, Charlotte, North Carolina. Headed home after working at a local pizza restaurant, Irene is by herself as she takes a seat

and is on her phone listening with earbuds. Sitting directly behind Irene is a 34-year-old to Carlos Brown. The ride is uneventful until Brown stands up and without warning stabs Irene in the neck. Brown then walks away as Irene grabs her neck trying to. stop the flow of blood. Just such a blow to the U.S., that original sound from Caroline Leavitt, the White House Press Secretary from our friends at Fox, that this young girl leaves behind a war-torn zone to seek the American dream and then get stabbed dead on the train by a guy who's

now saying it was because she was Russian. What? Wait a minute. How did he know about her accent? Had he been stalking her? Did he know enough to hear her speak? Claiming she was Russian, so he stabbed her dead? Joining me and All-Star panel makes sense of what we know right now. But listen. Passengers aboard the train look on as Arena bleeds out in front of them. As the suspect walks away, Nobody confronts him. Blood is dripping on the floor from the knife and from arena, but nobody offers her any help. Instead, some of the passengers on the train use their phones to video what is taking place.

One of the passengers calls 911. Oh, my stars! The girl is lying on the floor, bleeding out. Look at these people videoing her! What a bunch of blood-sucking ghouls! Look at that! Who are these people? no one helping her as she bleeds out on the floor instead they video her okay that's a whole

another can of worms these people are ghouls ghouls straight out of hell to Lauren Colin joining us investigative reporter co-host pop crime TV Lauren I want to circle back to what happened let's start at the beginning what do we know yes arena was leaving her job at the pizza place where she worked and listen nancy she did everything right she came to the united states in 2022 she got her work visa and she was working multiple jobs one at the pizza place one at an assisted living facility and she was also helping animals neighborhood animals who needed care so arena boarded this light rail that she took very frequently to go to and from work So she boarded the train around 9.46 p.m. on August 22nd, 2025.

And unfortunately, she sat directly in front of the Carlos Brown Jr. And we've seen the footy about four minutes later after she boarded. That's when he got up and he subsequently stabbed her three times. And as you mentioned earlier, and this is what the most troubling. thing is. I think about the whole thing. I mean, obviously the stabbing is just terrible, but it took two full minutes for bystanders to attempt to render aid. Two full minutes. Now, I don't know if she would have... And most of them just stood around videoing her. Only, I believe, one guy tried to really help her and staunch the flow of blood. Everybody

else just kept videoing her. Look at these people. What is wrong? with them. And I want to go to Joe Scott Morgan joining me right now. Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet, host of Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan. It's a hit podcast series, but he most importantly is a death investigator who has literally investigated thousands of death scenes, be they accidental, undetermined, suicide, homicide. Joe Scott, thank you for being with us. Explain to me how she bled out so quickly on the floor of that train. Well, in our neck, we have this massive structure of vessels, both veins and arteries that are running through here.

Remember, we have to have supply for our brain, its most vascular organ in the body. So it's a tremendous amount of blood going upward. Eclipse these vessels. It's probably the internal jugular, probably the carotid, and there's even facial. arteries that run up here to supply our face with blood. If you're going to clip somebody with an edged weapon wanting to bring about their death, this is the number one spot to go through or to go to. And there's throughout history, there have been attacks where people have had their throats cut. This is very similar to that, Nancy. I think that this is evidence certainly

of intent to do grievous bodily harm. A matter of fact, bringing about this young woman's death. Joe Scott, as she lay there on the floor, the floor of a public rapid transit train, how long did it take her to die? Did she know what was happening? I mean, clearly she's cognizant because she shrinks in and looks around. She did not die immediately. She suffered just God. No, she didn't die immediately, however, the death would have followed first, first unconsciousness because the brain is not being oxygenated at that point in time. The blood that she had remaining is the only thing keeping her alive. There's no way to stem this. Nancy, if you look at the blood deposition just on the floor, you can even see it in that still shot on her pants.

This blood has gone everywhere. We know that the volume of blood here, this is. consistent now that's passive dropping which from a from a forensic standpoint is hugely demonstrative nancy can you imagine having this evidence in courtroom because you can actually show wait a minute wait a minute just got look look at the picture everybody's just sitting there like nothing happened look yeah yeah it's just it's inundated the floor is and you go back to where she is over it would have been an absolute horror show back there she's bleeding out uh probably Probably when she hit the floor, you can apply direct pressure to a wound like that.

But Nancy, the internal damage, I would suspect, was so grievous that she would not have survived. Even if you had had a team of surgeons standing by there with her, she wouldn't have had a shot. This is a wholly lethal event. I think that this shows intent. And right here, look at him reaching in his pocket. That's a folding knife. he's got Nancy. He's unfolding that. He's getting ready to gauge. He stands up and attacks her right there.

And it was that quick. I believe Joe Scott Morgan, the blood droplets you're talking about that we just showed are from the killer. Because he just walks off with the blood dripping, literally dripping from the knife and nobody does anything. Listen. Carlos Brown walks up and down the aisle before the train stopped. at times stepping in Irene's blood, spreading it in the walkway. Brown is not approached by anyone on the train. And as the train pulls into the station, he debords as if nothing has taken place.

Irene Zerutska is bleeding to death on the train. As Brown exits the train, police locate a folding pocket knife nearby that is covered in blood. Irene is found laying on her back next to a large amount of blood and a stab wound in the middle of her neck. Do you see him changing shirts? Can we see that video again? Kelly Hyman joining us, high profile lawyer joining us out of the Florida jurisdiction, star of a Once Upon a Crime in Hollywood podcast, Kelly, the fact that he keep rolling changes his shirt to hide all the blood on his hoodie. That is clearly consciousness of guilt. This is a horrible tragedy, Nancy, and we're watching the video right now of him changing his shirt.

Now, this is something that never should have happened and hopefully will never happen again, that someone who comes to this country for promise and hope and for a new life is killed on mass transit. Changing shirt, evidence of guilt. That's what I'm saying, Kelly. Why? It potentially shows evidence of guilt because it goes to. to his state of mind. You know, to Dr. Sue Cornbluth, joining us, owner of Dr. Sue and you, author of building self-esteem and children, Dr. Sue, he didn't want people to see his bloody shirt when he got off the train.

Why did he want people to see his bloody shirt? Because that would indicate he's the killer. That's why it shows evidence of guilt. He knows what he did was wrong. That shows he knows it was wrong. He's trying to get rid of the evidence. Well, that brings this topic up, which other people are claiming that he's mentally ill and that he didn't know what he was doing. But as you can see right here, oh, he knows what he's doing, right?

Taking off his shirt, putting something else on to cover up the evidence that he had. So this is interesting, right? Was he mentally ill? Wasn't he menalil? What happened here? That's what I would like to know, Nancy, and I'm sure everybody else wants to know that too. And Tom Green joining us,

former chief deputy, Washoe County Sheriff's Homicide Detective, also currently owner Nevada Investigative Services. Tom, he also got rid of the weapon. He got rid of the weapon. and hid his bloody shirt. Evidence of guilt. Evidence he knew what he did was wrong. And someone may have a mental illness before or after the incident, but what matters in our jurisprudence, this is the law, whether anybody else agrees or not. The law is,

if you know right from wrong, at the time of the incident, you are not insane. It's called the old McNaughton test and it has brought over from Great Britain. It was brought here to the U.S. And it is part of our common law. What is common law? Common law is case law. There's statutory law, which is the code, the criminal code, the black and white letter of the law that's been passed by the legislatures. And then there is common law, commonly used law. The old McNaughton test. is the common law in the U.S. There are a few exceptions to it. There are modifications to it. Some jurisdictions don't even have insanity like Idaho doesn't even have the insanity defense. But where it exists, such as North Carolina, this jurisdiction, if you know right and wrong,

at the time of the event you are sane and therefore responsible. What does this indicate to you, Tom Green? well it indicates consciousness of guilt and then you know also if you watch that video it appears that he's deliberating with himself before he makes the overt act of stabbing her in the neck what do you mean by that well you can see him basically talking to himself and i've read reports that he was overheard muttering to himself um you know clearly he takes that knife out he does the stabbing um like you said then he attempts to flee the scene there There's nowhere to go. So he has to change his appearance. He takes off his sweatshirt. It's probably covering his hand because I think he also got cut, my understanding. And then as you said, he discards the evidence when he leaves the rail.

Passengers aboard the train look on as Arena bleeds out in front of them. As the suspect walks away, nobody confronts him. Blood is dripping on the floor from the knife and from Arena, but nobody offers her any help. Instead, some of the passengers on the train use their phones to video what is taking place. One of the passengers calls 911. Known for her love of animals and art, Irene dreams of becoming a veterinary assistant. Her tight-knit family supports her as she adapts to life in the U.S.,

mastering English and landing a job at a pizza restaurant. But one fateful Friday night, on her journey home, things take a terrifying turn. So innocent, so hardworking. this girl dead because an ex-con was walking out free on bond. Thanks, Judge, with a rap sheet as long as I-75, there on the train to murder this girl. Those are only a few of this guy's mugshots, and this has echoed all the way to D.C. Listen. Surveillance video of the killing was finally released to the public this past Friday. It shows the alleged killer, DeC. Brown Jr. pull out a knife, get up from his seat behind Arina, and prepare to thrust a blade

into her neck before the released footage gets cut. This is pure evil on full display. Surveillance video shows suspect to Carlos Brown sitting behind Irina. He takes a knife out of his pocket, unfolds the blade, and strikes Irina Ziritska three times from behind. She never saw it coming. As Brown walks away down the aisle in the middle of the train, blood is seen dripping from the knife onto the floor. You earlier heard the White House Press Secretary, Caroline Levitt, speaking from our friends at Fox. You know, Joe Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University Death

Investigator, he stabbed her multiple times. And the law is, I'm going to get Kelly Hyman on this in just a moment, the law is that intent can be formed in the blink of an eye, blink, just like that, and the twinkling of a moment. In other words, in the time it takes, as I use. use for juries to raise the gun and pull the trigger. That's long enough for intent. It does not require a long premeditated plan, such as poisoning someone over the course of weeks and months till they die. It doesn't require any real period of time at all. And I gave you the gun

comparison, but in this case, Joe Scott, he stabbed her multiple times, which requires a lift and a stab, a lift and a stab, a lift and a stab, added to the time that you pointed out that he's fumbling around in his pocket to get the knife. All of that takes time. Joe Scott, what do you believe was the force, the weighted force necessary to penetrate her carotid? Not very much. Hey, did you notice something, Nancy? He didn't pick on a 250-pound construction worker with a hard hat, and I did he. He picked on this young woman who literally, I'm looking at her, she reminds me of my daughter, when my daughter was this age, built like a ballerina. She might weigh maybe 110 pounds, perhaps, and this big guy goes after her. What, you know,

it's almost, it's almost like throwing a brick through a stained glass window. Why are you going to do this? What's the purpose behind this? He's thinking about this. I can tell you this. He sure as hell wasn't unfolding that knife so he could pick his nails or peel an apple back there. He's summoning up. It's not courage. It's certainly not courage.

He's summoning up the maximum amount of evil he can as he savages this poor girl. Yeah. You know what? Roll that back one more time because you see him not only fish around for the knife, you see him open up the blade as he's looking through his pockets right there he opened the blade that takes time Kelly Heimann veteran trial lawyer that's more than enough time under the law to form intent to kill intent is key for the first degree charge against him nancy and you bring up a really good point in the blink of an instant is going to be key for the first degree charge against him nancy and you bring up a really good point in the blink of an instant is going to be key for

for this case that at that moment he had the specific intent to harm and cure this woman. You know Tom Green following up on what Joe Scott Morgan said, he didn't pick on a 300 pound linebacker the size of a fridge. He picked

on this little girl. To me that is a predator. That is a predator that picks his victim knowingly with consciousness a forethought. I agree. I mean, he did. He looked like a predator, and she looked like prey. She had no idea that attack was coming. You saw the surprise on her face, the terror, the fear, and the shock. I mean, it's just, it's a horrific crime. Well, to me, all of that, Tom, goes to intent. Look at her. Oh, my goodness. Just, you know, amazingly, physically beautiful. But Lauren Conlon, beautiful on the inside.

as well. Explain. Irene really cared about animals in need. She volunteered and helped neighborhood animals if they were, you know, hurt or harmed in any way. And she was said to be an amazing and passionate artist. And per her family, Nancy, she just loved the United States. I mean, she was living in a bunker in Ukraine before she came here, obviously trying to escape the war. She loved America, and that's why her family wants her to be buried here. Crime stories with Nancy Grace.

War-torn in Ukraine, where she was living in a bomb shelter, 23-year-old Irina Zerutska immigrates with her mother, sister, and brother to the United States. The graduate of Synergy College in Art and Restoration, she shares her creativity with family and friends, creating personal work. of art for gifts and marking special occasions and exploring new places. But Irene is a homebody at heart, happiest surrounded by her pets and family, and dreams of a career as a veterinary assistant. After her shift, the college graduate boards the train, unknowingly sitting in front of DeCarlos

Brown, a man with a violent past. Little does she know, Brown is about to alter the course of her night. You heard who Irina was living in a bunker in Ukraine, a bomb shelter. Finally, her dream comes true. She makes it to the U.S. only to meet up with DeColos Brown. So we know who she is. Who is he? The most enraging and unacceptable part of this story is that her death was entirely preventable.

DeCarlos Brown never should have been on that train that night. In fact, he should have been behind bars. De Carlos Brown has been charged with crimes no fewer than 14 times, dating back to 2011, including for armed robbery, felony larceny, breaking and entering, and shoplifting. Brown had previously served five years in prison for a robbery with a deadly weapon charge, and he had also forfeited bonds three different times. De Carlos Brown was born and raised in Charlotte, North Carolina, and has a criminal record dating back to 2011.

Many charges are for communicating threats and injury to property that were dismissed by Mecklenburg District Attorney's Andrew Murray and Spencer Meriwether. In April 2014, Brown pleaded guilty to two 2013 charges of felony larceny and breaking and entering. A judge suspended his sentence of five to 15 months in prison. Instead, the judge ordered he served two years probation. Oh, dear Lord. So he pleased guilty to two charges felony, larceny and breaking and entering. But the judge, do we have a picture of the judge, suspends a sentence and gives him two years probation straight. Thanks, Judge.

Thanks. Two years straight probation. He walks out free. You happy, Judge? Are you happy the guy pled guilty and took a sentence of jail time and then the judge suspended the sentence? Earlier, Levitt speaking from our friends at Fox and Friends, but guys, this is just the tip of the iceberg. Our screen doesn't have room for all of his mugshots. Listen.

Four months into probation, Brown robs a man in South Charlotte. Brown paced the complex for an hour before brandishing a handgun. He demands the victim's phone and money and left in a 2001 Dodge Caravan with the man's Samsung Galaxy Note, $450 and $100,000, Pura Honduras currency note. Police found Brown's car at an apartment owned by his mother. He was cooperated with officers at first and allowed officers to go inside. When officers found the stolen items, he grew irate and asked officers to leave. They don't leave. They arrest Brown. Brown pleaded guilty to robbery with a dangerous weapon and was sentenced to a maximum of eight years, four months. He served five years, seven months before being released from central prison.

Kelly Hyman, that's a whole other can of worms. When I was negotiating felony, please and or trying felonies. Let's just say a young man comes in with five hits a crack. All right. I could go with intent to distribute on that five hits. Was he going to do all that himself? That's one thing. But if he has a gun, that is a whole another animal.

Because when you have a gun, that means you're up to hurting somebody else. So it's not just that he was called. calling 911 and misusing 911. It's not just he went into somebody's house and stole something. He had a weapon on more than one occasion. And that kicks it up several notches. And who in the hay let this guy walk after brandishing weapons? And they keep referring to a robbery. It was not a robbery. He had a weapon when he committed that robbery. That's been pled down, as we say. A robbery is a lot lighter sentence than an armed robbery. An armed robbery, even if it's a fake toy gun, a fake rubber knife, much less a real knife or a real gun, you start at a minimum of five years

hard jail time. Minimum. So if you can get your prosecutor to come off armed and say, look, look, sentence made a 10 years on robbery, not five on armed, because on robbery, you'll walk in about a year, two years max, on armed robbery, you have a minimum of five. So somebody pled that down and let him plead to robbery versus armed robbery. But I mean, brandishing a weapon, he should have been behind bars. The punishment should fit the crime, Nancy, and you bring up a really good point about talking about the fact that there was a gun involved and how that heightens the crime as well. And we think about if, in fact, he was behind bars that this wouldn't happen. This young, beautiful woman would not have lost her life, that there needs to be some type of change,

that hopefully this can shed light on the fact that such a young woman, so beautiful, with so much hope, lost her life. And she did that. And hopefully there'll be some type of justice for her family. Lauren, Colin, I want to talk about the judge. But first, listen to Moore. This guy got so many breaks from the system. A fleet of defense attorneys helped him.

Cases were pled down by prosecutors, but most important, the judge. The judge, listen. Despite all of this past documented criminal history, when Brown was arrested yet again in January of this past year, a Democrat judge released this insane criminal once again without requiring. him to pay any bail. He simply had to sign a written promise to return for his court hearing. Think about how crazy it is to ask a career criminal, someone who by definition repeatedly breaks the law to just sign a written promise and come back again another day. This is madness. This monster should have been locked up and arena should still be alive. That's Carolyn Levitt,

the White House Press Secretary speaking. What is she talking about? Oh, Wait till you hear this. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Listen. In September 2020, Brown arrested on assault on a female and injury to property. April 2024, Brown arrested for misusing 911. May 24, misusing 911. January 2025, misusing 911.

January 2025. Judge Teresa Stokes released Brown the same day he was arrested on a written promise to appear. Brown did not present himself for evaluation. Three weeks later, he is alleged to have killed Irina. If that order was followed, he would have been evaluated weeks before the stabbing. The public defender in his murder charge filed a motion questioning Brown's mental capacity, and Wiggins again ordered to be evaluated. Police have not identified any motive or lengthy attack to mental illness.

Oh, my stars. Okay. Lauren Conlin, this guy's a career criminal. And the judge, Teresa Stokes, says, okay, I'm going to cut you loose. I'm doing you a big favor. But now you got a promise, Pinky Promise, that you'll come back to court again. Pinky Promise. Promise, promise to Carlos Brow that you'll come back.

What the hell was she thinking? I have no words, Nancy. The fact that he was walking on the street after she knows what he's done. She knows these assaults that occurred. She knows that he had 14 prior arrests with weapons. He had previously assault bit his own sister. So the fact, again, that he was released on a written promise to appear is incredibly, incredibly concerning. And at this point, Republicans in North Carolina are asking her to step down.

They are writing letters. Put her up. I really don't care. Who's a Democrat and who's a Republican? Okay. Don't care. This is beyond anything political. I don't care if you're red or blue or green or purple.

Show me the video, please, New York Control Room. I don't care who you vote for in the secrecy of the voting booth. If you do not believe that this is pure evil and the judge who let him walk, really all of them, it wasn't just one, should get off the bench. They're too out of it. They must be too complacent. They haven't been in the real world. They've been in their ivory tower office in the courthouse way too long.

They need to look at this every single day because of them, he was walking free and she's dead. You know what? I don't think they care. Kelly Hyman, judges, not all of them, but so many of them don't care. Get off the bench. If you don't care, get the H-E-Double-L out of the court. I just, you know, I've had judges that just want to clear the calendar. They want to clear the calendar. I had a judge, an amazing judge, Judge Luther Alverson, and he was hell bent that we

would have the lowest jail count of anybody in the courthouse. Why? Because he was so old that he could have been forced into mandatory retirement, but he was already on the bench when mandatory retirement was enacted. He wanted the jail count low. What's the jail count? That's how many people are sitting in jail waiting for you, the judge, to adjudicate their case. And if you've got a huge jail count, that must mean you're not doing your job. But he would never take a plea unless it was the right thing to do to hay with the jail count. In fact, none of my pleas. Don't worry about that. But I've seen him take a plea from a prosecutor and go, The bench, I eat me, the bench rejects the plea agreement.

I advise both counsel to continue plea negotiations or we will strike a jury. Yeah, he didn't have a problem doing that if the plea was too low or out of place or inappropriate. Yeah. What did that mean for me? That meant I had to go on trial calendar every other week to keep the jail count low and to get an appropriate sentence at trial. Okay? These judges don't give a flying fig.

What the heck? Let this guy walk free. Say, well, we're going to get him evaluated, but you let him walk free. You're so concerned about his mental state that you want a forensic mental evaluation, but you let him walk free to murder arena. Oh, yeah, they need to be thrown off the bench, Kelly. Well, Nancy, that will ultimately be up to the people who vote for him because in some states they can vote for who they want as their judge, but then also the governor can appoint the state judges as well. So it's going to be different depending on the state. But yes, and that's their ultimate decision of whether or not that they want someone on the bench to serve the people because the judge ultimately is the decider of the fact. And sadly, in this case, this gentleman was not in jail or being made. mentally evaluated, and he committed this heinous, heinous crime of a beautiful young girl.

What do you have to do to get a judge off the bench? What, put a stick of dynamite under their rear end to say, it's over? You're going to have to go get a regular job like everybody else? Look, at crime stories, we don't care if you're a Democrat or a Republican. In fact, we could not care less than we do. And I don't care who likes or dislikes Trump. That is not my concern. But what he is saying here is true.

In Charlotte, North Carolina, we saw the results of these policies when a 23-year-old woman who came here from Ukraine met her bloody end on a public train. And here's a picture of it. This is the picture of it. And this is a picture of the woman. a beautiful young girl that never had problems in life with a magnificent future in this country

and now she's dead she was slaughtered by a deranged monster who was roaming free after 14 prior arrests from France at Fox Without warning DeCarlose Brown pulls on a pocket knife stands and lunges over the seat, stabbing Irene in the neck. As he walks away, Irina fights desperately for her life, clutching her neck to stop the flow of blood,

unable to call for help. And the passers-by stood there and let it happen. I don't know if you are familiar with the Kitty Genovese case. I had to learn about it in first year of law school. Kitty Genovese, may she rest in peace, was brutally raped and murdered. There were scores of onlookers that watched the attack and did nothing, to the point that it is now called the Kitty Genovese syndrome. to Dr. Sue Cornbluth, renowned expert, please explain the Kitty Genovese syndrome. Yeah, you know, Nancy hit on something that is very accurate here. So the Kitty Genovese case in 1964 was that she was getting brutally murdered

and people heard about this and nobody took it on to call the police about this. Why? Because everybody believes that somebody else is going to do it. So it's about the diffusion of responsibility. But let me say this. When you are witnessing something, it is everybody's responsibility to jump in right away and do something. Not bring out your phone so that you can get your viral clip. And it's not okay to think that somebody else is going to step in and do something.

We all have the responsibility of citizens and human beings to have empathy and compassion. And so when you see something that is going on, it is everybody's responsibility to jump in and do something. And that didn't happen here quick enough. And I want to remind people of that. It is everybody's responsibility to jump in right away and call 911 to get help for somebody in need. That is what you would want if something was happening to you. It's not an excuse anymore that you're going into trauma and you're not doing this because you have enough whereabouts in your mind to get your video camera up and video it.

And this just kills me because perhaps if this happened, this beautiful young lady could have survived. And you know, it takes it another step to Joseph Scott Morgan, professor Jacksonville State University. not only did they not help her, finally one guy runs up and tries to start the flow of blood with his own shirt, they not only didn't act to help her, they actively began videoing her dying. Now, Kitty Genovese was murdered outside her apartment and a full view of everyone else in an apartment complex in Queens. She was attacked, attacked, attacked, three separate occasions before she was, before she

actually died. And everyone stood by. The people that watched Irina be attacked and died, they don't only did nothing. They actively began videoing the carnage, Joe, Scott. Yeah. It's like it's, they're living in an alternate universe. What good is that, is that videography going to do? do you? I heard someone mentioned just a second ago going viral. So that you're telling me

that trumps this young woman's life. You've already been visited by a monster that was just among you. He's exited stage right at this point. Oh, now let's let's take a look and video all that's left here as her life literally seeps out of her neck onto the filthy floor of this train, where she's just trying to get by in life, having to escape, Nancy, having escaped a war zone, a war zone. And now she's in Charlotte, North Carolina, and gets stabbed in the throat by this guy. And let me tell you what, if you'd like that,

let me tell you one more thing. You were talking about judges and this guy being cut loose on the rest of society. Nancy, there's something that's gone unmentioned here. After he perpetrates this crime, Does everybody notice how casually he just kind of walks away? It's almost like he's used to violence. It's almost like he knows he is not going to be punished.

This guy has to be off the streets. They cannot let him back out there. He is the worst of us. He needs to be retained. He needs to be held to account. He never needs to see the light of day again. You know what? I agree with you, but don't you understand?

It's a day late and a dollar short. All of these judges should have had him off the street at the get-go. But there he is taking his shirt off. God forbid that anyone sees blood on his shirt after he murders arena. Tom Green, everything Joe Scott Morgan just said is correct. Absolutely. But, you know, we're looking at cashless bail. We're looking at restorative justice when we know what works.

Incapacitation works. If he'd have been locked up, she'd be alive. Who else is he victimized? Why is he even on that rail? He has no job. What does he do? How did he afford to get the ticket to get on there? Here she is coming home from work, like you said, coming from a war zone.

She's a survivor. And to be snuffed out by this coward, his animal. Or anybody, not just such a beautiful cover girl like her, but anybody. What if that had been a child in front of him? And to Dr. Sue Cornbluth joining us, I just want an addendum to the Kitty Genovese case. I don't know if you recall his name. It was Winston Mosley. He murdered her at age 29. He confessed. He was tried. He was convicted. We pay for his three hots and a cot. For 52 years, he lived to age 81. I mean, they're in the library,

meeting with lawyers, reading books, enjoying his meals, blah, blah, blah. 52 years we paid for him after he murdered. raped and murdered, brutally murdered, Kitty Genovese. Now, mirror image DeC Carlos Brown. Same thing. He should have already been behind bars and this. And everybody not only

did nothing, they videoed it. It's so troubling, Nancy. It's so disturbing. And what I hope happens here is this guy is put in the justice system once and for all. and, you know, seeks, the judge here seeks justice for what has gone on here. Because as you said before, to me, there is no room for him to have been let out into the streets

without having a thorough forensic evaluation done. Do you know, I believe I read Nancy that he had, already been arrested 14 to 22 times. And the mental health evaluation was just ordered this past July. Are you kidding me? He should have been evaluated for day one. It was his mother, his mother that took him to get evaluated and then they said that he had schizophrenia. But let me say this. Schizophrenia, right? Yes, that is a mental disorder. But not all schizophrenics are murderers, schizophrenics take their medication and some of them do very well. For me, Nancy, this was a drop in the legal system and a judge unfortunately did not do his job and put this

mentally ill person back into society when he was already doing things to hurt others. Well, another thing, Dr. Sue, is if they were so worried, they must not have been that worried about his mental ailment if it exists, because if they were, why would they let them walk out the front door? So they must not have been too worried about all of us or about Arena. Guys, hello, we hear your phone calls from jail. I'm not telling anything you shouldn't already know, but people still yak. The smartest people yak behind bars, they cannot keep their pie holes shut. And here is Carlos Brown yakking with his sister. You said something in your body did what? Yeah. Nah, the material, uh, the material, uh, put it like the material using my body

and stabs. And so she just got stabbed. Yeah. You know, that's not me. I'm talking about this for no reason. But since they did that, since they did that, now they got to investigate the material in about it you're supposed to. She didn't want to do all that. Now they got to investigate. It's funny because she's from the Ukraine. She's from Russia. And, you know, they got a war, they had a war going on against

the United States. So I'm just trying to understand out of all people, why her? Hey, it ain't, I don't have nothing. They just lashed out on them. That's what happened. They lashed out on them. Who was working now?

Who was working? Who was Whoever was working on the material, they lashed out on it. They, they, obviously, they is him. He lashed out. If you know or think you know anything about Arenas murder, even if you think it's inconsequential, it may not matter. Please call the tip line. 704-334-600, repeat.

Now, we remember an American hero, Sheriff Robert Rogers, Wilcox County Sheriff's, Georgia, killed in the line of duty after 22 years in law enforcement, leaving behind a grieving widow, Haley, and son, Robert. American hero, Sheriff Robert Rogers. Thank you to our guests, but especially to you for being with us, Nancy Grace, signing off. I'll see you tomorrow night. And until then, good night, friend.