Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Father blames Netflix series ’13 Reasons Why’ for daughter’s suicide

Episode Date: June 29, 2017

Bella Herndon died a week after her parents found the high school sophomore hanging in her bedroom closet. Her friends told her father days later that the 15-year-old had been watching the Netflix series “13 Reasons Why” in the weeks before her suicide. John Herndon tells Nancy Grace in this episode why he thinks the controversial show about teen suicide triggered his daughter’s death. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. my life ended. The fictional series features a high school girl who sends tapes to students and a teacher explaining how they wronged her. If you're listening to this tape, you're one of the reasons why. Everyone is just so nice until they drive you to kill yourself. This is Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. They were just 15 years old and they both took their lives just days

after watching a controversial show on Netflix 13 Reasons Why. I love you, Mommy. My daughter was, she was a hero. She had straight A's, and writing was her passion. She loved English. It was her favorite class. She was going to be a writer. Bella had been battling depression, and she'd been bullied since middle school. But in the weeks before she took her life, she seemed happy.

She was doing great. Bella Herndon, a little sophomore in high school. Absolutely beautiful. Loved to read. Loved to write. Reminds me so much of my little girl, Lucy. Getting straight A's as a sophomore in high school. Another girl, Priscilla Chu, a sophomore, described as precious and determined. Both of these little girls, Bella and Priscilla, have passed away. They both died as a result of suicide.

Both of their families say the two little girls have been watching Netflix's controversial news show about suicide, 13 Reasons Why, just before the little girls took their own lives. Why is this happening? Why is that still on the air? Influencing children all across our country?

Why? What is it, ratings? Why would they keep it on after losing Bella and Priscilla? Why? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories, and I don't understand why this is happening. We recently covered this story with a mom boy out of Florida. They managed to stop his suicide. What this show is about on Netflix is about a teen that is angry and upset and hurt about being bullied and sends notes, missives, to everyone that has bullied them and commits suicide. Then, after the teen's death, the teen becomes kind of a star. Everyone realizes what they did wrong, how they had brought about all this pain and suffering.

And in death, the child becomes the star and gets the love and approval they wanted in life. And suicide is somehow glamorized, kind of a get back at your bullies. That is not what children need to hear. And joining me now is a very special guest, Bella's dad, John Herndon, is with us. Mr. Herndon, I hate to even recount any facts. I am just so sorry that you have lost Bella. Yes, me too. But I see this as an opportunity to spread a word,

alert other parents, other educators, lawmakers, about what this show is, what it's doing to children, to teenagers, a very highly impressionable audience. I don't know how many lives of kids it's going to take for Netflix to finally say enough, but until the number gets high enough to matter to them, shows like this are going to help as a venue to get the word out. Well, surprisingly, even after losing two lives and nearly a third child's lives,

a season two is now in the works. We now know that season two has been greenlit creator brian yorkie out offering details to entertainment weekly it starts a number of months after the first season the the the controversial netflix series is about it's based on a young adult novel of the same title, and it's about a teen girl, Hannah Baker, who commits suicide and leaves behind audio recordings for 13 bullies that she says is the reason she killed herself. And they are actually going to a season two, even after the loss of Bella's life.

Mr. Herndon, when did you learn that Bella had been watching Netflix 13 Reasons Why just before she passed away? It wasn't until the day of her funeral that I learned from her friends at school. They approached me and let me know. Bella had finished watching about three days before she had passed away. Did Bella ever mention her feelings? Why was she so sad? Of course, you and I know, and with me is psychologist, a renowned psychologist, Karen Stark. We know that there doesn't have to be a reason for depression.

It can be a chemical imbalance. It can be just for no reason. For no reason, we understand you are depressed and you want to take your life. And I remember very well, John, after the murder of my fiancé for many, many years, years. I didn't care if I lived or died. Either way, it was fine with me, and I wish I had sought counseling, but at the time, I didn't. But did she ever, did you know that she was having suicidal feelings or was she depressed? No, neither my wife or I were aware that she was having suicidal thoughts.

We didn't know that she had suffered from depression. It started for her back in middle school with some bullying. But we had had her seeing doctors and therapists over the past three and a half to four years, trying different medications, different permutations of medication, different types, different titrations. And actually, you know, for the last year, maybe the last couple of years, she was very much getting better. She was much happier. She developed some very good friendships.

People that she brought over to the house. She was more energetic, more engaging. She was my little girl again. Why was she being bullied, John? Why were bullies bothering her? A lot of us, like many of us, you know, when we have experiences with bullies, we, you know, try to, you know, you develop a dislike, a distaste for bullies. When the kids were young, I would teach them, you know, what a hero meant.

You know, I would show them, you know, what a hero meant. You know, I would show them, you know, get them interested in reading about Superman and things like that. You know, just show them what a hero could stand for. And I would always tell them that, you know, a hero fights for those who cannot fight for themselves. I would always tell them, you know, if you guys see a bully, try and stop it. You know, intervene, get a teacher, something. Why were they picking on Bella? Well, I'll tell you. Bella stopped these three girls from kicking this boy in the head as he was lying on the ground.

I don't know why they were doing that to him, but these three girls turned around and tortured Bella for the next six months. I couldn't threaten the school to get involved and intervene. They just simply refused to act. They called it a disagreement among friends. After six months, the kids either lost interest or went away,

but there was a lot of damage that was done. I believe that Bella's depression really started from that. You know, that reminds me of something that happened in high school. We had a girl in high school, and her first name was Earl. And I guess because she dressed fashion forward, people picked on her all the time. It was actually the Mean Girls. And recently, John, I would say in the last couple of years, out of the blue, I heard from Earl.

And I had not seen her since high school. She said, do you remember the day, and she named three of the Mean Girls, and I remember them very well, were making fun of her. And she said, and you said, you leave her alone. I don't even remember doing that. But I do remember that those three girls bullied me for the rest of high school and made fun of everything. Made fun of my sister, made fun of me, made fun of blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm sure I gave them plenty of fodder to make fun of. But that's funny. That just triggered that memory. I haven't thought of that in years. And I don't believe I ever once mentioned it to my parents. I never, looking back, I never thought

to. I mean, I just didn't. You have stated, John, that you believe 13 Reasons Why, the new Netflix, I didn't even say it yet, creates a perception that there is no way out of your bad situation, that there is no alternative, that the main character looks to people, is turned away, and it creates a series of events that lead to a very black and white outcome that all you can do is take your own life. They're in high school for Pete's sake. Their life has barely started, John. So basically what it does is it provides a blueprint for a course of action. You know, it's very tragic to see someone make such a decision with such finality

who has so much promise. There were so many good things ahead for her, and she felt that these people that aren't going to matter to her in the slightest in the future have such an impact on her life that their opinion matters so greatly that she just can't live without it. Unfortunately, we tend to forget as adults how much the environment that we're in in high school becomes our entire world. You sit around with a group of people in an environment like that for a third of your day.

And like I said, as adults, we tend to forget how much significance that can have for us. But it is unfortunate that the makers of the show, including the former Disney star Selena Gomez, decided to paint her choices in such black and white and drastic terms. There was, you know, no way out, no other courses of action this girl could take. You know, for example, couldn't seek help from her parents, couldn't change schools,

couldn't, you know, any one of a hundred things, very common things that parents would do to intervene on behalf of their kids, none of those things were explored. And I think it was done in a very deliberate way to target that very segment of the population that Selena Gomez calls her fan base. It was done to target teenagers because they are so highly impressionable. It wouldn't be the first company that tried to reinvent itself by targeting a new or a younger segment of the market,

but in this case, they are trying to just completely target a group of people who simply don't have the tools to combat a message like that that we adults do. They're children. Yeah. You know, Karen Stark, a renowned psychologist joining us out of New York. Karen, the premise of 13 Reasons Why, 13 Reasons Why I, the rest of that sentence is commit suicide. The girl, Hannah, which is a made up character, sends videos, I think it is, to all of her bullies

and they have an awakening, an epiphany. That's not how it works in real life. Bullies never really get that they're bullies. You know? They don't. I mean, it's like a snake. It crawls on its belly and it thinks it's a king. It doesn't get it. And they don't understand it, Nancy. The show has many problems, and that happens to be one of them.

I think as Mr. Hendon said, and I want to say I'm very sorry about your daughter, it doesn't depict any alternatives. And that's huge because it also doesn't identify the fact that there's mental illness here. She's a very depressed girl and she should have many alternatives. They show her going to a counselor and the counselor and she's trying to tell about a rape and the counselor is not immediately jumping to her defense, offering support. And in reality, this is something the council would have to report to the authorities. They don't deal with that either. So it's as though she has no choice but to commit suicide. And it also turns her into a popular girl. Everybody grieves, everyone mourns her.

And it really does act as though this was the reason why she killed herself, because no one understood her and they bullied her. It ignores the fact that there was an underlying depression. And it makes it way too powerful for the individuals involved. There's so much that goes into teen suicide that's not being addressed. And it's dangerous in that way. They could have done a much better job. The National Suicide Prevention Lifeline is 1-800-273-TALK, 1-800-273-8255. Or to make it even easier, you can text the word TALK, T-A-L-K, to 741-741. Now, wouldn't it have been something, Nancy, if they had had an announcement that, just like what you just made on that show, if they would break into it and even say that? Yeah, I wonder why not.

And even after these two deaths, Priscilla and Bella and the little boy, but see, we kept his mom's name and his name secret we did not reveal that it but even after that it's still going to be greenlit it is greenlit for a second season Karen I don't understand that well what they're doing is they're going to they said they're going to have their warning be much stronger and they show some kind of teen suicide prevention prior to the show. But that still doesn't make sense to me that they won't inject it into the show. What would be wrong with stopping the show while the show is actually running and saying, we want you to watch this. We don't want you to get the wrong idea.

And because teenagers are so impressionable, the fact that they are showing this depiction of her committing, and it's very graphic, suicide, it gives, it can actually give them a way out and ideas. No one is remembering they their brain is not fully developed and they're impressionable and they really in a situation where they feel they have no way out this show is saying well here's something that you can do and everyone will regret what happened you know what karen it's almost like a get back at your bullies. I'm looking at a picture, a photo right now, of Bella Herndon and her father, John, and they are dancing.

And you know, Karen, my dad passed away about a year and a half ago, and I remember him teaching me to dance, and we would turn on the stereo, which was a big, huge, honking piece of furniture back then, with a big album of Perry Como. And I would get on his feet, and we would dance in the living room.

I'm glad you have that memory, but your dad was a wonderful person. And I'm so happy that I had a chance to know him. Yeah, you did. And Mr. Herndon, I'm looking at this picture and thinking about you and Bella. Can you tell me, when is it that you miss her the most? Every day. I miss her the most every day. When I, I, in the morning I look at her picture and I, you know, I just

walk by and say, I miss you, baby. I love you. And it's, uh, every day is hard. There is no time in the day where it lessens. There is no time in the day where the impact is not felt so much. I miss her every day. What did she want to be when she grew up? She wanted to be a writer. She was so passionate about writing. She loved reading.

She was reading Stephen King's The Eyes of the Dragon, which is a story that he wrote for his daughter. She was starting to get into Hemingway. She was reading The Great Gatsby. She was reading the stories about The Hunger Games. She was reading those stories. She read a lot of Greek mythology, Labors of Hercules.

Wow. That's pretty impressive. Yeah, she loved to read. She read voraciously. Anything that really just kind of struck her interest. You know, she reminds me so much of my daughter, Lucy. She reads all the time. She already writes little poems and little short stories. And I just can't imagine what you've gone through.

It's like a light goes off and it'll never come back on yeah yeah that Bella was pretty amazing to me she was my first born she was my first baby

I'll miss her till the day I die none of this makes any sense to either my wife, her brothers, or myself. Just a senseless act and has no meaning. Mr. Herndon, John Herndon, is not asking for some type of boycott on Netflix. That's not what he's saying. Even though he believes their new hit series, 13 Reasons, triggered his little girl's death. But what he is advocating and hopes is that they will make a change, that they will take the show off the air, that they will advance suicide awareness,

that parents and teachers, just citizens, if you care to reach out to Netflix in any way to express that, and he says he will do anything and everything to make sure this does not happen to another family. And Netflix, please hear us today. We are not calling for a boycott. We're asking for you to hear us. And please take this show off the air. It's not worth it. I don't care how much money you're making. It's not worth it. I don't care how much money you're making.

It's not worth it. Mr. Herndon, you will stay in my prayers, me and my family. Nancy Grace Crime Stories signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.