Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - FBI PROBES SPACE SCIENTISTS DEAD, MISSING, TOLL RISES TO 17

Episode Date: May 21, 2026

Coincidence or conspiracy?  The number of missing and dead U.S. space scientists now at 17. Now we learn The White House and FBI are investigating this string of suspicious deaths and disappearances individuals involved in classified aerospace, nuclear, and defense research.  From deep research into anti-gravity jet propulsion, into special alloys made for high-intensity heat and so much more that that is outside the normal realm of expertise.  Is there a connection between the victims?     Joining Nancy Grace today: Brian Fitzgibbons - Director of Operations for USPA Nationwide Security,  website: www.uspasecurity.com, Instagram: @uspa_nationwide_security, former Marine and Iraq war veteran   Chris Swecker  - former Asst. FBI Director, Criminal Investigation Unit Franc Milburn  - Former British Intelligence Officer Joseph Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan", Instagram @JoScottForensic Lauren Conlin - Podcaster/Reporter/Co-Host of "PopCrimeTV" on YouTube.  Website: www.popcrime.tv & primetimecrimeshow.com  X- @Conlin_Lauren, Instagram- @LaurenEmilyConlin, YouTube: @PopCrimeTV   Georgia - "Liminality" Podcaster, https://youtu.be/2h_UcvI1kMU?si=DMt9GV-XLVuxxMk4 Dave Mack -  Investigative Reporter, 'Crime Stories'   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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It's a summer kickoff thing. Join today at Simonplus.com. Rewards program Terms Apply. See Simonplus.com for details. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Tonight, the FBI continues its probe into space scientists dead and missing as the death toll actually rises to 17. Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace.

This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. The toll of missing. and or dead. Space scientist has risen. She really was already questioning authority at that point. So unfortunately, that's a problem. But you have very, very pretty of people who have these kinds of, you know, very strange and suspicious circumstances around. Between Monica and Ingrid, I've seen some similarities that are very chilling.

Tonight, what happened to scientist Aidan Schaefer as yet another scientist has been looped into this. Last name, Wilcox, straight out to special guests joining us. Georgia Bradburn, joining us from the UK, host of Liminality, who has broken the latest on a deceased scientist, Aidan Schaefer. You can find on YouTube interliminality. Georgia, thank you for being with us. Aden Schaefer. What did he study? So Aidan was looking into alternative propulsion. He was looking into alternative propulsion. He was involved in space ports in college. He was studying multiple aspects of ways to get humans into space. And he is believed to have been working on anti-gravity towards the end of his life, unfortunately.

But what he was doing towards the end, unfortunately, we do not know. It's unclear what it was he was working on. You know, I'm just curious. When you say propulsion, Georgia, are you referring to, jet propulsion? I believe it was field effect propulsion that Aidan was looking into. He wanted to find any sort of alternative that would get humans into space. He was aiming to do that by some sort of clean energy alternative. From what I can gather, he was very much involved in an alternative to jet engines. He wanted us to get there. And he was involved in space elevators as well. he was doing that for five years. So his research and development was all got geared towards humans in space and looking for alternative ways to get us there. Aidan Schaefer, born, raised,

New Mexico, New Mexico popping up again, fascinated with science, space, technology in a field known as field effect propulsion. Field effect propulsion. Straight out to Chris Swecker, special guests joining us tonight, former assistant FBI director in the criminal investigation unit. Chris Wecker, thank you for being with us. What is field effect propulsion? Well, I focus on the word propulsion. When you talk about jet propulsion or any kind of propulsion, you're talking about moving heavy objects, long distances through space. So it's a dual-use technology. You can use it for, say, space exploration, launching satellites, or you can use it for missiles and deliver a weapon of mass destruction a long distance from one site to another.

So that's what makes it interesting to our adversaries, more than interesting, I would say. They would love to get their hands on that technology, given the conflicts in the world today. My understanding, and of course, Chris Swecker, I'm just a trial lawyer, field effect propulsion, is an incredibly advanced aerospace spacecraft propulsion. It's a concept, as you said, that thrust the object that would be an aircraft through interactions with electromagnetic or space fields rather than expelling a chemical propellant such as rocket fuel. So that's my understanding of field effect propulsion.

and in a lay term, this is the way I understand it, is just a simple trial lawyer, field effect propulsion instead of using any fuel you heard Georgia Bradburn say he was looking for a clean energy, it uses what is around it somehow and turns that into a source of propulsion, field effect propulsion. And I had lumped it all together in jet propulsion. This uses electromagnetic power, and it's truly beyond anything I've ever imagined. To Georgia Bradburn, I don't understand how another space scientist, a U.S. space scientist, working on something beyond anything I've ever even imagined, Georgia, dies while being in custody for

interrogation to be questioned on an offense. He just has a heart attack and dies while in law enforcement custody? Well, that is what we're being told so far. It's unclear. We are told at this point that it was from a heart attack, but we get to get any clear documentation as to whether or not that truly was what happened. But Aiden had had his issues with that authority in his area. However, whether or not Aidan's case and his untimely death is linked to the rest of these scientists that we're talking about today, it's clear that Aidan was experiencing something throughout his life similar to Amy Ascredge when it comes to the targeting he may have been facing for the work he was doing. And so it's not as clear cut as anybody would

hope it to be, but ultimately he did die in the hands of the authorities, we believe, at this point. Georgia Bradburn, you just brought up Amy Eskrich. And joining us tonight is one of her very dear friends, Frank Milburn. And Milburn, who will tell you himself, was in close touch with Amy up until the very end. You, Georgia, referred to Amy having been harassed and hounded because of her work, and she was actually afraid. Was Aidan Schaefer being harassed as well, Georgia? I can tell you that he publicly expressed on social media, that he certainly felt that way.

Whether there is evidence or not is yet to be answered, but he had made it clear to some friends and on his social media platforms that he certainly felt as though he was potentially in danger and that maybe some of his devices were compromised. Now, let's keep in mind, Aidan Schaefer had extensive education and training. He was studying economics, chemistry, and physics. He went on to study astrophysics.

He extended his studies into all realms. Now he's dead. Unusual in police custody for questioning. to Frank Milburn joining us, former British intelligence officer who knew Amy Eskridge very well. Does it sound familiar? Yeah, it also sounds kind of a bit more than coincidental maybe, although I'm speculating here. But Aiden was directly involved with an organization and individuals who were directly accused by Amy Eskridge or corporate espionage. And that is something that I find very, very strange.

especially as one of those individuals I've been doing research on, has a criminal violent history, shall we say. And his case seems to be very much similar in terms of the sort of mystery aspect as Amy Eskridge. But what I find very, very weird is that both of them are linked to these organizations where he was directly working for one and she was accusing the people involved there of corporate espionage against her and also other crimes. Back to Chris Swecker, joining us, former Assistant FBI Director, Criminal Investigation Unit. I know it's a lot to take in what we're hearing, and I'm trying to separate the wheat from the sheaf.

And what do you make of what you're hearing? I just find it impossible to believe that of these brilliant scientists, each in their own right, studying issues and complexities far beyond what I've even imagined as a lawyer that more than one of them feel they're being harassed and threatened because of discoveries they are making or papers they're going to publish or just before they're set to speak to members of Congress, they die. Now I've got Aidan Schaefer dead of a heart attack while in law enforcement custody to be questioned. And it's a lot to take in, Swiker. Well, it sure is. I mean, when you have my background, you look at all these people. And this list has grown from nine to, what, 17 now.

And I've been trying to sort of track each one of them as we go. There's no official list, if you will. It's just, it's sort of a media, wiki type list that keeps growing. But when you look at them closely, you do see that some of them you can just weed out, very easily. The MIT professor, that was a mass shooter from Brown University. Another one that was shot off his porch after a carjacking. Another one died of heart disease. But when you really drill down, there are four or five that are missing, not dead, missing under very suspicious circumstances that we just can't explain. And they were working

or had worked on highly, highly sensitive projects of what I call dual-use technology. It's dual-use. use being it's, you know, it's aerospace research or its mission jet propulsion or some type of propulsion technology. And these are the types of things that our adversaries would love to get their hands on and fully understand, given the, you know, the state of warfare and the state of space exploration as it stands now. And this is, this has been going on since time began, espionage, trying to steal state secrets. And these are indeed state secrets. So my mind goes there. Some people they go to the conspiracy theories of, you know, the government doesn't want all this, you know, all this space exploration, UFO type stuff out there.

But I think that the more logical explanation here is espionage. And when you say espionage, Chris Swecker, a reminder to everyone, Swecker is the former assistant FBI director in criminal investigations. You cannot achieve that position without. Security clearance after security clearance after security clearance. Tons of years in the field working to attain that position. You know, Chris, so many people don't want to speak out because they don't want to be, the moniker attached to them of being a conspiracy theorist.

But I deal in hard facts. And when I see 17 questions missing, dead, no cause of death. submerged in water, walked away from their daughter, never came back, never seen again. It's just, it's just too much to be coincidental. So when I look at Aidan Schaefer's case, you know what? Let me go to Lauren Collins joining us. She is contributor to LA magazine. She just wrote an incredible article dealing with this exact material. You can see her. at pop crime TV. Lauren, thank you for being with us tonight. Tell me about the facility where Schaefer had a heart attack. This is very interesting, Nancy, and I pulled this from the New Mexico court docket. So what it says is that on 3-9, it says per Torrance County Detention Center, defendant is deceased. When you go look up the Torrance County Detention Center, I mean, it looks like a federal ice facility, a very different detention center than one would be at if you get

arrested by the Touse County Sheriff in New Mexico, which is where Aiden Schaefer was arrested. So I'm a bit confused by this. I'm looking at the so-called detention center. And you're right. Why would someone being questioned on basically a property crime be here? here. It's surrounded by barbed wire. It's got really high, see-through chain-link fences topped with barbed wire all the way around it. It's out in the middle of what looks to be a desert. Why was this brilliant scientist there? And Lauren Conlin, more important, has there been an autopsy? Do we know a COD cause of death? We don't. And I have foiled... these records because Nancy, he actually was charged.

Per the court dockets, he was charged with burglary. He was charged with arsony, I think with a deadly weapon as well, but everything was dismissed upon them finding out that he was deceased here. So I have been making calls and I believe I'm going to get it, Nancy. And you keep pulling up the obituary or the obituary comes on the screen. I don't understand why his name is spelled incorrectly. That to me is so bizarre, and I think Georgia had pointed this out as well. They also don't even have a birth date for him.

It just since 1976. This is everything about this is bizarre. To Georgia Bradburn joining us from UK, host of Liminality. Georgia, do we know if an autopsy was performed on Aidan Schaefer? No, not at this point. I believe that somebody else has also filed a foyer for that. but just worth noting on that obituary as well, the date of his death actually changed two weeks ago. So I caught this based on a screenshot that somebody had taken originally. And two

weeks ago, that day of death was March. Sorry, two weeks ago, the date of death was the 6th of April. Now it's the March. Now it's March 6th. Get rewarded just for shopping with Simon Plus. Don't miss Memorial Day sales at Simon premium outlets and mills. You can get points at scores of stores, access to exclusive offers, and exciting surprises. You've got an extra day off, so make it pay off, with the best deals from brands you love all in one place. It's a summer kickoff thing. Join today at Simonplus.com. Rewards program terms apply. See Simonplus.com for details. Crime stores with Nancy Grace. I'm calling in a do.

Death Investigator, a renowned death investigator, Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonal State University. He is the author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and he's the star of a hit podcast, Bodybags with Joseph Scott Morgan. But all that aside, Morgan is a death investigator that I first met many years ago as a felony prosecutor, and he was working with the medical examiners and what was then one of the murder capitals of the world, inner city Atlanta. we had so many homicides, I couldn't keep up with them. And I would go on trial, Joe Scott, as you recall, every other week trying nothing but felonies and still couldn't keep up with a crushing load of felonies and homicides. So Joe Scott has performed over 10,000 death investigations of all natures.

Joe Scott, why do we keep having scientists that, A, go. missing and B don't have autopsies. You and I discussed it last week. I can't remember the number we identified of the seven, now 17, that don't have a real official COD cause of death. There's one scientist that's found dead. They go, oh, he was overweight. He was obese.

Must have been a heart attack. And that's the cause of death? Really? Amy Eskridge did not have an autopsy. It's called self-inflicted gunshot wound. The week before, she says to Frank Milburn, if I'm found dead, I did not commit suicide. Now we have another self-inflicted gunshot wound, and that is David Wilcock. No autopsy.

And I'm going to get into it with you about how can a self-inflicted gunshot wound be something very, very different, not that at all. But first, no COD, no autopsy. We're going to have to do a flowchart on that, too, Joe Scott. How many of these scientists never have an official cause of death? Yeah, and that's a major problem now. You know, you look back over your shoulder through time and you want these answers. People are demanding answers now, right? I mean, this is one of the biggest stories in the world,

and there's no data to give them at this point in time. And listen, once this is done, once they're done, once they're, the body has been released and has been either buried or cremated, there ain't no going back. It's, it is perfection in this idea if you're thinking about hiding something. There is no excuse. And let's go back to the gentleman you were mentioning just a moment ago that has allegedly died in custody. Nancy, when in the medical legal community, when anyone dies in custody, and I don't care

if they're in the back of a patrol car or if they're in a hospital wing in a facility, they have to be examined by medical legal authority. And this is why. Because you are in custody literally in the state that you're found in. They are charged with protecting you. Okay. So when you die in that environment, everything has to be examined so that there are no questions in the future coming back to say, well, this happened to them. So at least you have to draw talks. You have to do an external examination. If this man was not autopsy, if his death was not reported to the medical legal authorities, there is a major problem here, okay? Because you would want to draw talks on him to try to understand what's going on at a chemical level within his body. And then we have to look for

any kind of signs, any kind of trauma on his, on his, on his external person, and also internally just to see why is it that of all points in time he dies in custody and doesn't die outside of custody do you see that that's a big question that we have to ask and all of these I'm going to be very curious I'll help you put together the flow chart chart and we can go by point by point to try to explain why this is so very important I'm curious if the PRC is watching I know they're in my phone I've alluded to that earlier today And it's not just paranoia. That's my professional work life due to being on the inside of APEC

because I know China is in my phone. Meaning that there's a unit of people somewhere in Hong Kong that have the same level of access as the NSA. So anyway, use signal everybody. That's him. That's Aidan Schaefer speaking about his fear. based on certain incidents that had occurred that his phone was, for lack of a better word, tapped.

That is from Vlog of the Dead. It's on YouTube. And now I want you to hear something that Chris Swecker told us. It would not be out of the realm of possibility that China or Russia or some other hostile foreign intelligence service would kidnap one of our scientists and try to extract information out of them.

or turn them, you know, into a double agent. General public tends to be a little bit unaware of the prolific efforts to steal our sensitive technologies from A to Z. Thereafter it day in and day out, and thereafter the people that are working on it, it's a comprehensive, ongoing effort on the part of hostile foreign intelligence services to steal our technology. I think we're going to see this list grow, and it's going to play out in the public eye because it's of great interest to the

public. That is our guest tonight, our friend Chris Swecker, former FBI assistant director, speaking to Fox Nation. But let's hear it from the horse's mouth. You know, Chris, so often when we hear someone say, I think somebody's listening on my phone, you immediately think they're crazy, right? This guy, Aidan Schaefer, we just saw him speaking. He's not crazy. He thought someone was listening to his phone or gathering information from his phone, and at your level at the FBI, that is not uncommon. You can't overstate how aggressive and proactive, especially China is in trying to gather up and steal our technology.

It isn't, you know, just technology in the hands of our defense establishment, if you will. It's any technology that's helpful to them that will help them compete, you know, in the world marketplace, in military, in research and development, because they don't do their own research and development. They reverse engineering, just about everything. They don't have the initiatives and the freedom that we have here to do that research and technology. So thereafter every day, he sounded, I agree with you.

You sound a little paranoid, but just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you. And in this case, that may well have been true, because China especially, Russia is at it too, but they're a little more clumsy, and they're easier to detect. China is at it all day, every day. Do cyber means, they're trying to compromise scientists, go to trade shows, introduce foreign exchange students. They're at it all the time. And, you know, it wouldn't surprise me at all. And this is an alternative theory that one or more of these scientists had been turned, and now you're in it, and you can never get out of it. And you can never get out of

The only way you can get out of it is to take your own life. Chris, I want you and everyone else on our guest panel tonight. I've been watching the videos of Aidan Schaefer over and over and over. I'm just a layperson to detect what I can. I've looked at every word. I just want you to see and hear him speaking. Listen. If you're in the UFOology thing, if you've talked with Amy, you probably've seen this once or twice.

It's a very hastily done model. Here is what is inside. It's a technical model. Just trying to learn how to build a flying saucer. And yes, everything shapes me things. And the parts inside may not actually reflect reality. If anything, I kind of want to redo this one. Maybe make it a bit shorter.

So it's tighter. Maker. I should be a fabricator. I should still be a lot of Smith, blacksmith, and make things. The joy of making is difficult. Because how you can envision something isn't how it comes into reality or the labor of your hands. sometimes does not match the quality of your vision, your artistic vision. I'm curious if the PRC is watching.

I know they're in my phone. I've alluded to that earlier today. And it's not just paranoia. That's my professional work life due to being on the inside of APEC because I know China is in my fucking bone. Meaning that there's a unit of people somewhere in Hong Kong. that have the same level of access as the NSA. So anyway, use signal everybody.

I just wanted you to see that. And there's so much more that's from the vlog of the dead. That is Aidan Schaefer speaking. And there's a lot of it. And he's not just based on that, but everything I've learned. He's brilliant. Mr. Frank Milburn, former British intelligence officer who knew Amy Eskridge so very well and knew.

and is familiar with her work in the anti-gravity technology, as well as directed energy weapons. She was working with that as well. Frank, when you hear him, Aidan Schaefer speaking about People's Republic of China or didn't know who he thought may have been gathering information from his phone. And we hear Chris Walker talk about there are fleets of how to, fleets of specialists in China, every day, 24-7, trying to crack into not just his phone, but millions of Americans' phones. We know that. We joke about TikTok all the time,

how the Chinese are in our phone on TikTok. That's just a very simple, rudimentary example. But, Frank, I compare it to this. I've dealt with so many teens, pre-teens. tweens, children even, that are targeted online. And it's not just one person doing it. There are people in their basements all over the world right now trying to get children to respond to them. It's like a sweatshop. There are thousands of them in every state trying to get children to respond to them so they can get into their world via social media and then molest them.

I can't overstate how many there are. Now, think about the power of a foreign entity, as Chris Swecker was describing, constantly trying espionage on our scientists. It's real. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I know from Amy Eskridge, and she was talking about her and her team, both at home and also at work, that they were constantly having to, you know, sort of rewire, reinstall, clean install, their computers, their phones.

and they literally couldn't keep up with it because he had a team of working against them, you know, sort of 24-7. Sometimes it would be like a Russian IPs, sometimes it would be sort of China-linked IPs that they could find or other suspicious IPs. But obviously, these are very technically, you know, competent people that we're talking about. But Amy kind of got so concerned towards the end. I mean, I'm looking at her at a message from her just now from November 2021. And she's saying that she's so worried. She doesn't want to go to a psychiatrist to deal with her stress, to get stress relief medication because she doesn't want to be anything that could be construed as being suicidal. She doesn't want to get pain relief for all the pain that she's in because she doesn't want it to be construed that she took an overdose or something.

And she doesn't want to get a concealed carry license for a weapon because she's worried that that could be construed as in she got herself a firearm and she committed suicide with it. So that's the kind of level that we were at with Amy. You know, it's interesting, back to Chris Swecker, joining us former assistant FBI director in criminal investigations. Chris, I've dealt with a lot of legitimately, legally insane defendants, many, many, many of them over the course of a decade plus. Typically, let's just use street vernacular, crazy people are not worried about the fact that they may appear crazy. They're not worried about, hey, I don't want to talk to a counselor about my stress. I don't want that to go on my record. I don't want anybody to think I'm suicidal because I'm not suicidal.

And then she commits suicide according to sources. No COD, no formal medical examiner report. So the way that these victims are being painted with quite the brush, is an effort, I think, to cast them off as on the fringe, on the fringe of science, not important, mental problems. That's not true, Chris. It is not true. Brilliant people are eccentric. And what you're talking about, I think is a really good point. I mean, these people who are going to kill themselves or are suicidal, don't run around saying, hey, I'm not suicidal. Please understand this.

If something happens to me, it's not suicide. They don't go out and commit suicide. So, you know, the thing that's bothered me about all of this, we know that they're not all connected. But it wasn't being looked at, it appears that it wasn't being looked at. by looked at, I mean, deeply investigated by the FBI until the media brought it to their attention. And let's understand the difference between the FBI and the CIA. The FBI are spy catchers. The CIA are our spies. And it's the FBI's role to get into, to dig into these sort of things and find out if there is indeed a pattern here or if this is some broader conspiracy or what, you know, what's behind all of this and not take it at face value. So if there's one thing that there's an element of truth to, and that is it wasn't looked at early on, none of these were looked at.

They were local investigations, state and local police departments, looking at them in isolation. Get rewarded just for shopping with Simon Plus. Don't miss Memorial Day sales at Simon Premium Outlets and Mills. You can get points at scores of stores, access to exclusive offers. offers and exciting surprises. You've got an extra day off, so make it pay off with the best deals from brands you love all in one place. It's a summer kickoff thing. Join today at Simonplus.com. Rewards program Terms Apply. See Simonplus.com for details. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Now we have Lauren Conlin another death, reportedly by self-inflicted

gunshot wound. And I'm talking about an American writer and a significant figure in the disclosure movement. And when I say disclosure movement advocating vociferously for the complete opening and disclosure of UAP information, commonly known as UFO information. He was really pushing the government to release that. And just as it all seems to be about to happen, but don't hold your breath. I'm still waiting for all the Epstein files to be released. He suddenly dies of a self-inflicted gunshot wound. Tell me about his death. Yes, this is so tragic, David Wilcock. I think many people were shocked as well because he seemed to be doing well via his social media posts. And, and, you you know, nobody actually knows what's going on in someone's head, of course.

It's incredibly tragic. And the entire community, Nancy, the entire UAP community disclosure community, was just reeling from this. I want to go to Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Death Investigator. I'm curious. I'm not ready to make any formal assessment, but I'm curious about, for instance, one scientist, disappearing and being found in a body of water months later? Could water conceal a COD? I'm also curious about self-inflicted gunshot wounds. How can we determine, is it real? How can we determine if someone had been slipped a psychotic drug to induce suicidal ideation, such as David Wilcock? I

When you don't have a formal medical examiner autopsy, you don't have toxicology. I don't know what, if anything, was in his blood. I don't know tonight. I don't know what happened to Aden, who died of a heart attack in detention and what looks to be an ice facility. Why? How did that happen? Why was he there? Also, you've got Wilcock and Eskridge both stating, can I?

see that full screen, please, that Wilcock posted, I am not suicidal. Same thing Eskridge said. Now they're both dead by self-inflicted gunshot wounds. How can I tell the difference? Well, I'll put it to you this way. You and I have both covered cases like this, and I've worked cases like this where individuals have, in fact, taken their own lives, all right, with self-inflicted injuries, all right. That doesn't mean that somebody else's hand was not on it. Okay. It's a slippery slope here because you can have individuals that are right on the edge, Nancy. They might have some type of psychopathology that's going on. They could be intimidated, which I've worked cases like that to the point where they do feel hopeless and helpless. And they do, in fact, self-inflict at that point in time. I've seen these cases. They are out there. We hear about them all the time, particularly in team groups. So this is something that you cannot just merely say, oh, yeah, yeah, well, you know, this was, you know, self-inflicted or this was, you know, fatal self-harm. You can't just simply say that and dismiss it. And here's the big problem. And it's really a simple solution. If somebody

does examine their body, it's that simple. Because many times people will actually, and I'm talking about medical legal authorities and the police, they will release bodies directly to funeral homes from scenes that have self-inflicted harm. And this is a major problem, particularly when you come up against this, because I'm interested, you had mentioned just a moment ago, any kind of psychoactive drug, right? Well, if a body is embalmed, right, we can't go back and do toxicology at that point in time to see what was actually in their system. If the body is cremated, we certainly can't do that. There's no unringing the bell at that point in time. So all of this adds up, and to the director's point, just a little while ago, I'm very curious, and I'm thinking about

this as a forensic medical legal person, when you look at the data that has been posted relative to all of these individuals, this kind of charted out event, we look at this from an epidemiological standpoint, you know, where you get these clusters that are occurring, and then what epidemiologists do is they look at the kind of group that these people, and you can classify it any way you want to, level of education, level of interest, all these sorts of things. Why are these clusters appearing within these groups? Could you take, you know, just another random group and still find this clustering? I think that there's something here from a scientific standpoint, from an epidemiological standpoint, if you want to look at it from that perspective, that actually

correlates to this mystery that we have that we're trying to solve. But if you're shooting yourself in the foot to begin with as an agency and you're not following through as a death investigator, then you train recantative investigation before it even get started. We haven't even touched on the missing scientist, and I'll go to Fitzgibbons on that in one moment. But another issue, and I'm going to throw this to Swecker and Milburn. First, to Chris Swecker. I'm casting my eyes towards China and Russia. With those two countries, nothing's off the table. There are no rules, no boundaries.

And if they want to take out scientists that they think is a key person in the development of a military technology or an aerospace technology that's detrimental to their countries, they would do it. You know, post-World War II, as with there was a race to, you know, develop more and powerful atomic bombs and nuclear weapons. And we recruited, and in some cases, took out scientists that were hostile to this country. And that's that whole Cold War dynamic that we had post-World War II. So it's on the table.

And nobody should think that even our intelligence services and especially the hostile foreign intelligence services to the United States would not do this. I'm not saying that's what's happening here. I'm just saying it's out there. It's a possibility. And I'm wondering, we know Trump has called for an investigation. Is it real? Or is it just, you know, for show? I base everything on what I've seen in other cases.

For instance, we told we were going to get the Epstein files. We haven't gotten them all. That was a lie. What else do we not know about this investigation? Frank Miliburne did Amy Eskridge believe? that a foreign entity was targeting her, or did she think it was corporate espionage? Yeah, there's a number of interesting threads there. We went through all this. There certainly seemed to be some indication that there were sort of foreign threat actors, you know, Russia and China

because of the IT related issues that she had. But she also did. She accused a, you know, American organization of corporate espionage against her, which Aidan Schaefer's directly, Aiden Schaefer is directly linked to because he used to work for one of them. And that organization is the one that she was making these allegations against, both in voice form to me and also the ones that I've given to you in her voice file format. But I think the problem here is she was also worried that her IP was upsetting somebody, you know, domestically. And she thought perhaps maybe an aerospace company. And certainly in terms of the amount of time, four years, that she was under this level of harassment,

both information technology penetrations, both the physical surveillance, the technical surveillance, and also the social engineering, the directed energy weapon attacks, which are documented against her and against other people. That's a lot of moving parts to have on the ground that are flying under the radar of local law enforcement

and also of counterintelligence agencies. So that's some kind of actor that can work with a level of impunity, freedom of action. Frank, I've been looking at some recently discovered texts of Amy Eskridge's, and I'm convinced that she was not suicidal. We haven't even touched on the missing scientists. To Brian Fitzgibbens joining us, Director of Operations, USPA, nationwide security. And let me stress that Fitzgibbons leads a team of investigators around the world finding and extracting missing people. other countries all across the U.S.

He finds them and extracts them if possible. He is a former Marine and Iraqi War vet. Brian Fitzgibbon's, we've been so focused on the body count tonight. We haven't even addressed the missing scientists. Way in. Yeah, you're absolutely right. And, you know, there are five missing, right? two of which, Monica Reza and General William McCasland, had incredibly high security

clearances and access to this information. And I want to touch on something that Chris Swecker said. These foreign intelligence organizations are not just going after and targeting folks that have that access. They're also targeting people with placement. And what I mean by placement is this would refer to somebody who has physical or occupational proximity to that desired information and that that's where you lump in you know the foreman in Los Alamos in the administrative assistant in a contracted custodian you know they can't be easily dismissed as not connected because they themselves don't have access to the information they have the right placement. So these missing, the missing on our list, I think, you know, it's easy to lose sight of

the forest for the sake of the trees, but these missing cases, in my opinion, are what need a lot of time and focus on. You know, Brian, one of the missing, Melissa Cassius, there you see were on the right. I really identify with her personally because she drops what she's doing and goes to take her daughter a subway sandwich for lunch. And how many times everybody on the panel that has children, you drop what you're doing. You stop in the middle of your work and you do some crazy thing like pick up a dress or bring a subway sandwich or carry soccer hands to school just before practice. There's

a million things you do. She dropped everything she was doing Brian to take her daughter a subway sandwich. Then she walks out of the house in the middle of the day which she never did because it was so hot

there. I have in my notes here how hot it was outside. She worked with Chavez at Los Alamos. She leaves in the heat for walk which she never did. 2.18 p.m. She planned to work from home that day.

She's last seen on surveillance walking briskly eastbound State Road 518. The heat of the afternoon. No phone, no ID, nothing. She's never seen again. Okay. No, that's not right. everything in my mind is screaming this mom would never have left her daughter and Fitz

when they go to look at her home they find her work phone and her personal phone both of them had been wiped and factory reset I mean I've said this a hundred times you know the old story about the five blind men trying to describe what is an elephant

Well, one is feeling the trunk, and one is feeling the tail, and one, the tummy, and two of them each have a leg and a foot. And nothing makes sense to them. They just know basically what it is, and I am telling you, I know that this woman did not leave her daughter. Now, what her position was is that she worked with Chavez at Los Alamos. I, that's the one that really speaks to me, Brian, but all of them, all of them just leave with no ID. McCaslin leaves, no cell phone, no ID. He even takes off a smart watch, nothing to identify who he is. In fact, less than two miles away, his Air Force sweatshirt is found.

We believe it's his on the side of the road. Monica, you know, let me go to you, Lauren Conlon. you have done a really deep dive on Monica Hesin-Tereza. And your article in LA Magazine was eye-opening. And I'm sure that took you hundreds and hundreds of hours of research to put that one article together. Remind us about how Monica just disappears off a trail. Of course, Monica's disappearance is very chilling because she was with two people from her yoga group. And reportedly she was descending from a mountain with her male companion only.

She was behind him about 30 feet. They were both running. Again, this is a steep terrain. No one can understand why they were running. The male companion turned around. He waved to her. A minute later, she was gone, vanished into thin air. And that red beanie was found on a more dangerous path leading off of the mountain.

This is Mount Waterman. And her scent stopped at that beanie. Nancy, very strange. And just to go back, one thing you said about Melissa Cassius, I want to point out that Melissa was an administrative assistant at Los Alamos. Generally, she wouldn't have a high security clearance. However, I think the important question to ask without sounding too conspiratorial is, did she see something that she shouldn't have? And also, it was reported that Melissa was seen getting into a vehicle, although the mate and model is not available. And, you know, to Brian Fitzgibbon's, after we did a careful review of the disappearance of

Ingrid, let's see her vehicle. So she's out in the middle of nowhere. She disappears like Hasid Theresa. Her scent just ends, which we all know that scent dogs don't just, it doesn't just end. The person has to get in a car. Your scent just doesn't end. Her scent ends near her car and her disappearance was chalked off to as a boulder attack. A boulder fell on her car. So what she lived and then disappeared all on her own? I mean Fitzgibbons, these stories are fantastical. Yeah, the circumstances around Ingrid's vehicle, you know, in the evidence collected there at the scene, having taken a look at those photos, it is almost unbelievable the narrative that's been placed together here. And when you add these things in totality and you look at the other missing cases, these are folks that how many cases that can be connected that folks have wiped their phones, put their Apple watches and their mail watches and their mail. box, left all identifiable information behind, and then frankly, disappeared, right? So there's a lot to

these cases that connects them, not only from the UAP, UFO scientific standpoint, but from their placement and access to this information, along with the circumstances around their disappearances. Frank Milberg, weigh in. I think it's extremely, worrying what's been going on with all of them, the ones that we've narrowed into that have, you know, the links to the aerospace and defense angle. And I'm particularly concerned as well with the new one about Aidan Schaefer, principally because there is a link there to Amy Eskridge. And I have concentrated on the Amy Eskridge side. But that to me, when I saw Georgia come out with that research, that to me was particularly concerning. I don't know that I can

connect David Wilcox to this because Lauren Conlin accurately pointed out that he was waving a gun around, he was observed, killing himself. Not so with Sullivan. Joe Scott Morgan, you and I very carefully vetted the facts as it relates to Sully. Just before he's to meet with someone in Congress about what he knows, he suddenly is found dead in a hotel room. And one of the drugs he OD'd on was a child's bedwetting medication? What's, you know, and you have to think about the connectivity here. And why is it that at that moment in time, with this drug cocktail, that he would decide to take his life? What would be, you know, because, you know, you talked about a few moments ago, Nancy, this concept of suicidal ideation.

And that's one of the things we look at with people that do self-harm, right? What kind of history do they have? Is this something that just suddenly manifest itself? You know, one day you're kind of clipping along. You have access to data. You're going to make an official presentation or comment about this. And then, for whatever reason, you're gone, man. I mean, you're absolutely gone.

And so I think that a deep dive into his death and also how these drugs were applied, was this a completely oral ingestion, or was there any other indicators on his body that they could have been applied some other way? I'm thinking about things like needle puncture wounds and things like that that we look for. I was just about to ask you that, Joe Scott, about how subtle a very, very thin needle puncture wound can be on a body. And if it's in a location where the ME typically wouldn't look like behind the ear. There are many

ankles. And I know this because of autopsies. I've attended where an addict did overdose and they couldn't find the needle mark. And then they found in a very obscure location on the body. And you use a very thin needle

in an obscure location. It very often goes undetected. Yeah, it does. And that's why you have to be incredibly thorough. And also the investigation before you ever start the post, right? because you have to have a direction.

And I say post, I mean autopsy. You have to have a direction. It kind of, the information that comes in to the forensic pathologist from the field is kind of the roadmap, right? You know, we kind of know what we're dealing with at the scene. And then you move forward with the autopsy. And all things have to be considered. That's the beauty of medical legal death investigation. We're not for either side.

We just want the scientific truth here. And unfortunately, with a lot of these cases, I'm seeing an absence of that. I'm seeing an absence of scientific truth because, you know, with that science, the science is actually, you know, the lamp of learning. It will obliterate all of the darkness, all of these kind of things that are shaded here. If we can go back to the science and begin to understand how the mechanism of death occurred, then we're going to have answers. And then you've got LeBlanc. We'll never learn anything because his body was incinerated to Chris. Swecker joining us, former assistant FBI director. Chris, final thought? Yeah, as we've all discussed here, we all know that not all of these cases are related, but there's, there are some, especially the missing person cases as we've just finished discussing. They are, they, they bother me quite a bit because some of them are missing under very similar circumstances.

And they've walked away without their phones. They've walked away without their personal items. They were involved in sensitive, highly sensitive dual-use technologies or in and around it. And so I just think that this is the type of, the investigation has to be deep and it has to be wide in terms of trying to determine if there are any connections whatsoever. You know, it seems like the media has been doing the work of the FBI. they finally did open an investigation, according to the president. I'm curious why they didn't do it sooner. But let's hope we get some answers sometime, you know, over the next couple of months or so.

It shouldn't take that long to see if there are indeed connections or there is indeed foul play involved in these. And again, my mind goes to espionage, but I'm not ruling out other possibilities. And to Georgia Bradburn joining us, host of a hit podcast, Liminality, who has been in investigating the death of Aden. Georgia, what do his friends? What does his girlfriend think happened? I have spoken to his friends. They have questions. They have concerns. They want some answers. If you know or think you know anything regarding the death and the disappearances of these scientists, please dial toll free. That's 1-800 call FBI. 5-3-24, 800-2-25-5-3-24.

We remember an American hero, Officer Amy Caprio, Baltimore County PD, just 29 killed in the line of duty after three years leaving behind her husband, Tim. American hero, Officer Amy Caprio. Thank you to all of our esteemed guests joining us tonight, but especially to you for being with us. Nancy Gray, signing off for tonight, but I'll see it tomorrow night. And until then, good night, friend. Get rewarded just for shopping with Simon Plus. Don't miss Memorial Day sales at Simon Premium Outlets and Mills. You can get points at scores of stores, access to exclusive offers and exciting surprises. You've got an extra day off, so make it pay off with the best deals from brands you love all in one place. It's a summer kickoff thing.

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