Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - FEMALE REMAINS JUST FOUND near scenic parkway, body of mom of 5 Crystal Rogers?

Episode Date: July 28, 2020

Crystal Rogers vanished five years ago. Now her family has been notified that possible human remains have been found near where she went missing. That location is her boyfriend's family farm. Has this missing mom of five been found?Tip Line: Bardstown Police Tip Line 502-348-HEAT (4328)Joining Nancy Grace today: Ashley Willcott - Judge and trial attorney, Anchor on Court TV  Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst, Beverly Hills  Investigator Sheryl McCollum - Forensics Expert & Cold Case Investigative Research Institute Founder Dr. Kris Sperry - Former Chief Medical Examiner State of Georgia Fallon Glick - WDRB Louisville News Reporter Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. As we go to air, remains have been found. Are they the remains of a gorgeous young mom, just 35 years old, cracking a five-year-old so-called cold case. There has never been an arrest. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. First of all, take a listen to our friends at WHAS 11. According to the police, the discovery was near the border of Nelson and Washington County.

Sources close to the case tell us it's a location near where she was last seen alive in July of 2015. Police say that they became aware of the remains on Thursday and called in the FBI evidence response team on Friday due to the difficult to reach location. Right now, those possible human remains are on the way to the FBI lab in Quantico, Virginia for testing. We keep hearing the word remains difficult terrain. FBI remains sent to Quantico. Again, thank you for being with us. Has the case of missing mom Crystal Rogers finally been cracked? Joining me, an all-star panel to break it down and put it back together again, judge, trial lawyer, anchor, Court TV, Ashley Wilcott at AshleyWilcott.com,

Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst joining us from L.A. You can find her at DrBethanyMarshall.com, director of the Cold Case Research Institute, Crime Scene Expert, Cheryl McCollum, former Chief Medical Examiner for the entire state of Georgia, Dr. Chris Sperry. But first, to Fallon Glick, joining me from WDRB Louisville. Fallon, thank you for being with us. You know, I noticed that they said law enforcement became aware of the remains. How did they find out about these human remains?

Well, that's still under wraps by police right now. Everything involving the case with Crystal Rogers is really tight-lipped, and it has been since day one. And that's, I think, what's really frustrating with this case, that you don't hear any information really ever from police. Anytime they hear of remains or they do a search, there's just very little information that is released to the public. To Cheryl McCollum, founder and director of the Coal Case Research Institute, Cheryl, thank you for being with us. I don't quite know, with so much interest in Crystal Rogers' case, how the case, quote, went cold.

What does it tell you that we are learning the police were, quote, made aware of the remains and now the FBI is involved? Well, it says to me somebody came upon something whether it was her remains or a clandestine grave there was somebody led them to this place from what I understand the terrain is very difficult to get to. What do you mean by that? Why does everybody keep saying the terrain is difficult? Is it heavily wooded? Is it mountainous? Is it down a ravine? Is it in a swamp? That's what it looks like.

What do we know? A ravine? It looks like there's a pretty decent grade, probably a 90-degree angle. So, you know, getting to it with equipment would be difficult. You know, making sure that everything is gathered correctly. Again, you need a team of people when the terrain is difficult. In other words, it's not just like you drive up and there's a body laying there on the flat surface and you can work it easily. This, you're going to be at an angle.

Things are not going to sit straight and they could possibly roll further down. So wherever the remains were, it's difficult for law enforcement to work as a crime scene. You know, another issue I have with this is that it's apparently five miles away from the last place she was seen, and I'm very surprised that tracker dogs didn't find her, especially if you take into light, Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, joining me out of Beverly Hills. Do you recall in the Lacey Peterson case, tracker dogs actually tracked Lacey's remains from her home in Modesto, their own Covina, all the way to the San Francisco Bay about a 40-minute drive. And tracker dogs followed her scent that far. But not in this case.

Do you remember that? I remember that so clearly. Yes, the tracker dogs picked up the scent. They followed the trail. And the fact that in this case, this mom of five went missing and they were not able to track her. And then there's a shallow grave or some kind of a grave five miles away. It's kind of shocking. I don't know the science of tracker dogs, but it does make me wonder a little bit about the investigation itself and the motivation of the police department

and why this wasn't done a little bit more thoroughly. We don't know what happened regarding tracker dogs, but I do know this about the location. There was a social media post by Nelson County Sheriff's Office that state they, quote, become aware of possible human remains near the border of Nelson and Washington counties. We understand the search was near Paschal Ballard Lake. Excuse me, Pasch Pascal Ballard Lake. Excuse me, Pascal Ballard Lane. Joining me, Ashley Wilcott, Dr. Bethany Marshall, Cheryl McCullen, Dr. Chris Sperry, and Fallon Glick.

Right now, take a listen to what we are learning from WDRB's Fallon Glick. The nightmare started over Fourth of July weekend in 2015. Detectives say Crystal Rogers, a mom of five kids, was last seen on July 3rd by her boyfriend at the time, Brooks Howe. I was calling and texting and she wasn't answering. Nobody could get out of her. Sherry Ballard, Crystal's mom, still remembers in vivid detail the day she went to the police station to report Crystal missing. I remember later on them telling me what could be a year before we find any answers. And I was just shocked. I'm like, there's no way I'm waiting a year to find my daughter. Little did anyone know it would be much longer. When her car was found abandoned on the Bluegrass Parkway

with her belongings still inside, it didn't offer any clues. Okay, we have been asking and wondering about whether tracker dogs were used and why they didn't come up with anything. Well, take a listen to our friend Shane McAllister. So I can't figure why she would walk away from the car and leave the purse there when we took the bloodhounds up there. I mean, they had her things that you provided us for sin and they said it was as though she was not even there. I can't explain that. I don't understand what that means. I don't know why if it's her car and she leaves in it sometime Friday night, why does it appear to the dogs that she's not even there? I agree with you.

This same set of bloodhounds tracked you all, tracked her in the car from 49, and they had never been to your mom's farm before, tracked you all, her scent, all the way down to 49, turned on Balltown Road and turned on Pascal Ballard as though they were following your car so I know the dog is not defective because they're following your her scent and they don't know where your mom is they've never been there before so the dog's nose is not defective so when the dog doesn't even try to find her on the parkway where her car ends up, it's just very odd

to me. And I can't figure out why they wouldn't find any scent of her at all if she walked one way or another. They would have picked it up. You are hearing Detective John Snow speaking, and he's explaining that the dogs, the tracker dogs, were taken to Crystal Rogers' car where it was left abandoned on a parkway, but they picked up nothing. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. For those of you just joining us, have the remains of a mom of five finally been found cracking a five-year-old so-called cold case? There has never been an arrest. Assumptions, gossip that she, quote, ran away. I never believed any of that. But why didn't the dogs pick up her scent where these remains were found?

Why didn't the dogs pick up the scent near her vehicle that was abandoned? You know, Cheryl McCollum, director of Cold Case Research Institute, I can think of a lot of reasons the dogs did not pick up her scent where her car was parked. Oh, I can think of one major reason that detective does not believe she drove that car there. Yeah, because she wasn't in it. He believed that car. That's right. That car was left there along with her purse and cell phone, and somebody deliberately flattened that tire as a staging mechanism to make law enforcement believe,

oh my gosh, she had tire trouble and somebody must have snatched her. To Fallon Glick, joining me from WDRB Louisville. Fallon, what can you tell me? Let's start with the location of her vehicle and how it was found. So her car was found off to the side on the Bluegrass Parkway, kind of out of town. And what was really weird, according to family, is that they say Crystal had no reason to be driving in that direction. She doesn't go that way ever. So they thought it was, first of all, very strange that that car would be there.

And from day one, they thought there's no way Crystal drove that car and there's no way she would have gotten out on her own, just leaving. And there's no way she wouldn't have called her dad or another family member if she did, in fact, have a flat tire. They don't believe for one minute that she was ever in that car driving it to the Bluegrass Parkway where it was left. Ashley Wilcott joining me, judge and trial lawyer, Court TV anchor at AshleyWilcott.com. Ashley, clearly in my mind, the scene was staged. Wasn't the purse and the cell phone still in the car? Yep, that's my understanding they were. And I think that the valid point and the really thing to think about is that there were no scents picked up by the dog. And staging a scene right is what, when somebody is involved in the disappearance of a person, happens. That's what they do to throw the police off.

As a matter of fact, Cheryl McCollum, picking up the cases I investigated, prosecuted, or covered, seen a random killer stage the scene. They grab the person and take off. They kill the person and take off. They commit the burglary and leave. No staging, nothing to keep them at the scene. They have no reason to. Staging only happens when you have some sort of connection to the victim. Explain. Absolutely correct, Nancy.

So if you have a connection to the victim, then you have to make it appear that you were nowhere near them. You don't know anything about it. So you do little things, again, like her purse and cell phone conveniently being left there, a tire being flattened. If this was a stranger, time is of the essence. If your goal is to kidnap somebody, you grab them and you go. What are they doing with her while they're flattening the tire and making sure her phone and purse are visible and just so easily, you know, seen as somebody going into the car.

Well, I mean, if you did have a flat tire, why in the world would you get out of your car without your phone and leave? The boyfriend says... But Nancy, there's more than that. Yeah, you're right. Go ahead. It's in the middle of the night. He claims he went to bed, she was in the bed with him, and he wakes up, she's not there.

So you want me now to believe that a mother of five, for some odd reason, grabs her purse and cell phone and drives down a road she ain't never been on in the middle of the night for no apparent reason and has a flat tire? Well, the disappearance of Crystal Rogers is part of an even deeper mystery in the Bardstown area. You heard earlier Cheryl McCollum wondering why she didn't call her dad. No, no, no, that was Fallon Glick. Take a listen to Shea McAllister. Tommy and his grandson pull onto the private property which butts up against the Bluegrass Parkway. At 6.50, Trenton stands next to his papa when a blast rings out. A single shot rips into Tommy's chest.

That single gunshot is heard across the fields, splitting through the morning air. Casey's wife hears the gunshot from their home. My son heard the gunshot and I remember Casey saying, dang, daddy already got a deer. I mean, they had just got out of the truck. Tommy reaches for Trenton and tells him he's been shot and to start looking through his clothes for his phone. Tommy is trying to speak, but he can't breathe. At 6.55, Sherry has fallen back to sleep when her phone rings. Trenton called me and I couldn't hardly understand him.

He's like, my mom, my dad's been shot. I was panicking, you know, I was trying to throw my clothes on. And I told Trenton, I said, I'm going to call 911. I said, I will call Casey. And, you know, I'm scared because Trenton's there and I don't know what's going on. She hangs up and frantically dials 911 while getting dressed and running to her car. So after Crystal Rogers goes missing, one of the few people she could call for help and that were intimately connected to her, her dad suddenly is killed.

But apparently a lot of people don't see a connection. Listen to Bardstown. Kentucky State Police Trooper Scotty Sharp was a detective when Tommy was shot. He arrived on the scene just before 8 a.m. We came out on Tommy Ballard. Of course, he was shot on the edge of the Bluegrass Parkway. So we have worked since that day diligently working all three cases and working in cooperation with the Nelson County Sheriff's Office in the disappearance of Crystal Rogers.

Is there any connection between Crystal and Tommy's cases? Well, right now that's still part of the investigation. So at first, and ongoing, apparently no connection made. Joining me right now, a renowned medical examiner, Dr. Chris Sperry. Dr. Sperry, thank you for being with us. You know, I remember,

and I remember discussing this case with you at the time, prosecuting a high-profile murder case that involved an arson of a millionaire's wife. He lived, she died, and she was covered in bruises. That's unusual to die of smoke inhalation and be covered in bruises. That said, Dr. Sperry, that case really brought it home to me, the true fact that medical examiners look at extrinsic evidence when they determine COD and MOD manner of death. For instance, in that case, the medical examiner took into account that all the husband's suits and dress shoes were removed from the home all of his family photos of his family and relatives were removed from the home

before the fire about 24 hours before the fire, he checked the weather network, a call-in resource, to find out if it would rain the day of the fire. He called his insurance before the accidental fire to find out if the fire insurance covered rental furniture after the house burned down. And then lo and behold, 72 hours later, the house burned down. I mean, there's just so much circumstantial evidence. And the medical examiner did look at that evidence when making a conclusion. Here you've got a young mom missing, and then suddenly her dad is shot dead. Would a medical examiner take that into account? Oh, absolutely.

I mean, there are no coincidences, really, when it comes to deaths that occur in a family, you know, close together unless there's some documentation. Someone dies in the hospital of a natural disease or something like that. But a mysterious disappearance, you know, followed by another family member being shot. That's incredibly suspicious. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we're talking about human remains that have just been found. Are they the remains of a young mom of five, Crystal Rogers?

Take a listen to WHAS. Crystal and Brooke shared a home and together had a son. The couple and their toddler were together the last night Crystal was known to be alive. Supposedly they went to the farm and they walked back in the field to feed the cows. My daughter's not going to walk back in the field in the pouring down rain, especially with her baby. I just don't see her doing that. And then they left the farm and went back home and Brooks went to bed and Crystal was still up on her phone and Eli was running around playing and supposedly she was not there when he got up. She was just gone. Gone. But Sherry Ballard says Brooks didn't tell anyone his girlfriend was missing. Sherry didn't know her daughter was missing until days later.

And when it was Sunday and she still hasn't called, I started panicking. Sherry and her husband, Tommy, rushed to the Nelson County Sheriff's Office to file a missing persons report. Okay, that's interesting right there. To you, Fallon Glick, WDRB, Louisville. Who filed the missing persons report? That would be Sherry Ballard. She ended up seeing Brooks Houck in a parking lot somewhere in town and had been talking to him, wondering where Crystal was

and why hasn't she been calling her back or answering any of her text messages. And she goes, well, have you filed a police report? And he said no. And then she goes, well, shouldn't you do that? And he goes, well, maybe you should. And then she goes, well, I'm going to go straight to the police department. And that's what she did. I don't like that right there, Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst joining me out of L.A.,

that they basically go tit for tat on who's going to call the police. Nancy, I don't like it one bit. Can you imagine you're sleeping in bed with your spouse or, in this case, his girlfriend, mother of five children. You wake up, she's gone. Not only is she gone, but now you have five kids in your care, in your charge, who are asking for mommy, you know, mommy, mommy, mommy, where's mommy? You're taking care of them, you're feeding them, hopefully he was, but you're not wondering where the mother of those five children is. I mean, maybe I'm too lax, but whenever I see anything, I call 911. I mean, I'm sure they've got me on record by now. Guys, I want you to take a listen to our Cut 5 WHAS. The mayor cited the reasons for the termination include a phone call

he made to his brother, warning him about an interview the Sheriff's Department planned to conduct. He also failed a polygraph exam and then refused to cooperate for an interview with the Nelson County Sheriff's Department. Sheriff Mattingly says he's not worthy of being a police officer. He then made it very clear that he believes Rogers is dead. Okay, so suddenly the brother of the boyfriend is fired from the police department. What happened, Fallon Glick? So basically, they brought in the Houck brothers for questioning. That is the boyfriend that last saw her alive and his brother who's on the police department. Okay, what police department is that?

The Bardstown Police Department. Okay. And he had been there for about eight and a half years or so, the brother, Nick Houck. And they had brought in Brooks Houck for questioning, and they or so, the brother, Nick Houck. And they had brought in Brooks Houck for questioning. And they also brought in his brother, Nick Houck, the police officer. And during that exchange of questioning and talking about his polygraph results, which he did not pass, he is very defensive about everything. Who failed the polygraph, the brother or the police officer brother or the boyfriend?

So Brooks Houck's polygraph results came back inconclusive. That's the boyfriend. The boyfriend. Nick Houck, the brother and the police officer, he did not pass the polygraph test. Every time they asked him a question about Crystal Rogers and her whereabouts. The investigator said it spiked as a major lie. And the FBI said, I'm no longer asking you if you know where Crystal is. He goes, I know you know where she is based off these results. The reason why he was fired.

Cheryl McCollum, that looks really bad. But the police officer brother apparently called the boyfriend and said, hey, they want to interview you. Is that grounds for firing someone, Cheryl McCollum? Absolutely. I mean, to me, the standard procedure in a police department is conduct you know unbecoming if you do anything where you're you know harming an investigation trying to you know make something look like it's not forthcoming if you're not honest of course they can fire you for that there's more to me to this than anything remember her car that's abandoned on that road in the middle of nowhere? Whoever drove that car had to have a way to get home. So now you have a brother involved who's lying. Perhaps that's how somebody got home. There was another car involved. It seems as if the plot is thickening, and in the last hours we learn remains have been found about five miles

from where Crystal Rogers was last seen alive. To you, Fanniglick, WDRB Louisville, where have her five children been while mommy's been gone? Well, the youngest child, who is the child of both Crystal and Brooks, he's been in custody of Brooks Houck this whole time. And then her other children have been staying with Crystal's mom, Sherry Ballard. Mm-mm-mm-mm. Okay, guys, I want you to hear from Shane McAllister, Brooks Houck interview with detectives. Listen. You had a little fire. When was that? After you

took your walk or before you took your walk? I know we fed the cows first because I want to do that as quickly while we had still plenty of daylight. I don't know if I lit the fire before we walked back here or right when I got back. I could have done it either way. I don't remember. After the fire and with their toddler in tow,

Brooks says he and Crystal take a walk. To me, and I've got a couple of kids, you know, but everybody parents a little differently. To me, it seems a little late to be out on the farm with a two-and-a-half-year-old. Where is he at at midnight? Has he been asleep in the car for a while? No, he's still wide open in India.

He's so used to sleeping so later in the morning, his normal day, that's his 7, 8 o'clock in the evening. Where he's 11. Cause she sleeps much later in the morning, she stays up. So like, yeah, it's always been that way. So he's wide open. He's wide open. Okay.

Did you go straight home on Friday night, or did y'all stop somewhere? Because I'm thinking if that's their normal 7, 8 o'clock in the evening, it might be dinner time. Did you stop and eat something, or did you go straight home? We did not eat anything. I went straight home. Okay. So you went straight home. So if we assume that he's correct in about 10 minutes after midnight.

Okay, you are hearing the boyfriend, Brooks Huck, speaking to detectives, Brooks Huck. And, you know, Cheryl McCollum, you and I have lived through a lot of trials together. I would be playing that. First, I do a motion before trial to allow it before the jury. I would try every way I could to play that in the opening statement. That might be difficult because something has to be entered into evidence before you can show it or play it for the jury. But right there, hopefully I'd have a jury full of moms and dads. It's the last thing you want to have your two and a half year old up at midnight. Cause you know what that means? You're up at midnight. That's what that

means. Now, true Cheryl, as you will know, John David and I and Lucy being dragged along have stayed up all summer, every night watching Kung Fu movies 1.30 or 2 o'clock in the morning. But for a two-year-old, that's a whole other thing, Cheryl. I would play that first chance I got to a jury. Of course, let me point out the boyfriend, Brooks Houck, says he's innocent. What about that statement, Cheryl McCollum? Oh, I think you would play that up. I think you would play the fact that his brother lied and couldn't pass a polygraph.

I think you would also do what you did so well and so beautifully, Nancy, is basically you would explain to a jury people are commonly murdered for only three reasons. Sex, money and revenge. That's it. So in this situation, if the remains show that she was not sexually assaulted, clearly her car wasn't taken, her phone wasn't taken, her purse wasn't taken, so money wasn't the motive. That leaves us with revenge. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are talking about the remains just found in a remote area. We believe down a ravine. Are they the remains of Crystal Rogers?

Now, Rogers was last seen this young mother of five. She just turned 35, about five miles away from where the remains are found. And, you know, Dr. Chris Berry, former chief medical examiner for the entire state of Georgia, if it's not her, I'd like to find out who it is. Do we have another missing person, another missing female that happened to be five miles from where Crystal was last seen alive? Dr. Chris Berry, let's assume it's a heavily wooded area. It may or may not be the remains in a shallow grave. At this juncture, several years after she goes missing. How do you expect, what condition do you believe those remains would be in, Dr. Sperry?

They're skeletonized. That is, all of the soft tissues would be gone, and actually the bones would be fairly dry. It takes about a year after a body starts to decompose before they lose the oily, greasy feeling from just decomposing fat material. After that, they're dry. And they would be scattered over an area, sometimes a large area, because of animal activity. Coyotes, raccoons, possums, all sorts of different animals that will eat anything. They're just foragers that will eat a dead human just like they would a dead deer.

But they tend to drag pieces off and they're scattered all around. So it would be a fairly large search area. It could be easily 100 yards, 200 yards in diameter. I was just thinking about the way that that just rolled off the tip of your tongues, Perry. Well. About animals taking chunks of a human body and running away with it. Do you ever hear yourself? Well, of course.

We just happen to inhabit a portion of the food chain. We think we're at the top of the food chain, but we're really not. Well, who do you think is? Oh, I think, well, anything that's still there. I hate to cross-examine my own witness, but you put it out there. Who do you think is at the top of the food chain? Who I think is at the top of the food chain? Oh, lions, tigers.

I mean, we're lucky that we can catch them, but you do know they're in the cages, right? Yeah, in the cages. But if you put yourself face to face with one, you know who will probably win. Yeah, you're right about that. Dr. Sperry, I'd love to continue cross-examining you on that. But let me move forward with the fact that remains have just been found. The Bardstown Police tip line 502-348-HEAT. 502-348-4328. You know, Fan and Glick, it's been a long time coming. I'm trying to figure out how they, quote, became aware of remains, if the remains are down a ravine

or if they're in a shallow grave. We know tracker dogs didn't tell police. So who possibly could have tipped police off about this location? Well, a lot of times when remains are found in the area, and that sounds weird to say because there are remains that are found in and around Nelson County, but seems to be quite often. But it's usually just a random person that comes upon these remains. Maybe they're out hiking or walking or kayaking or something. And that's typically how remains are typically found in this area.

Crystal Rogers goes missing July 3, 2015. Last seen in the company of her boyfriend, Brooks Houck. They have a little boy together. The little boy is currently with his bio dad. His four siblings are with her mother. What happened to Crystal Rogers? In the last hours, remains have been found five miles away from where Crystal was last seen alive. Take a listen to Brooke Houck speaking to Detective John Snow.

I probably woke up around, you know, in between that time, like 6 or 7 o'clock, and then I left, you know, I did my normal thing, you know, changed my clothes, put my clothes on, and headed out shortly after that. So you get up between 6 and 7, and where's Eli at when you wake up? He's next to me. He's in the bed with you? Mm-hmm. Okay. So you get up, does he get up with you?

He's still asleep. So you get up, does he get up with you? He still sleeps whenever I get up, but I go to, you know, the bathroom and all that kind of stuff, and he's still sleeping there on the bed. But Crystal isn't there when he gets up. Yes, I noticed, I mean, I noticed that she wasn't there. I didn't know what was, I didn't know exactly what to think. I don't know what time I called her. Yes, I called her that morning. Brooks takes his son to the farm, but his lack of concern for Crystal's whereabouts gives the detective pause, and he probes.

If I woke up on a Saturday morning and my wife wasn't with me in the bed as is normal, if she were not, probably the first thing I would do would be to call her to find out where she was. He's absolutely right. You are actually hearing the boyfriend, Brooks Hout, age 38, speaking to the detective about the morning Crystal Rogers seemingly disappeared to Ashley Wilcott, judge and trial lawyer, court TV anchor. You can find her at ashywilcott.com. Do you remember the case of susan powell remember her husband josh powell takes her and the little boys wait no he says he just takes the little boys tiny tiny boys out to go camping at midnight in literally freezing temperatures. And coincidentally, that's the night Susan Powell goes missing, never to be seen again.

Her body has never been found. And when the little boys were asked what happened to Mommy, they drew a picture of Mommy inside Daddy's car trunk. This reminds me of that, Ashley, because he's saying at midnight, they decide to go take their little boy, their two-year-old, for a walk. Yeah, it doesn't pass the smell test. I also want to talk about people who disappear. A, people don't just disappear. B, statistically, those who choose to run away are not mothers, specifically of five children and a two-year-old taking a walk at midnight. None of that passed the smell test.

And the reality is a mother of five children doesn't just disappear. Guys, we're talking. I have a question. Jump in. Do we? Well, I keep wondering about the boyfriend he wakes up his wife's not in bed he says he they were out at midnight with a two-year-old which obviously is not true but do we know if he was dating somebody or having an affair there seems

like such lack of details around her disappearance and what was happening in the relationship at the time. What do we know WDRB? What do we know about the state of their relationship? So at the end of their relationship in terms of her going missing, Crystal's mom, Sherry Ballard, actually had a conversation with her in their driveway right before she went missing. And Crystal had said that she was going to leave him and she has all his tax information and it's hidden in a box somewhere. And Sherry never asked any follow-up questions because she thought it was very strange. And that's one thing that Sherry regrets to this day is not asking more questions about that one little thing that Crystal had said. And so that raises suspicion in the family because it just came out of the

blue when Crystal was saying it. Also, I want to point out that shortly after Crystal disappeared, Brooks Houck started dating another woman whose name is also Crystal, who is also a blonde woman, and they have some similarities. Is she missing? She is not missing. They are still together. At this juncture of following LickWDRB, what is the status? Are we waiting to find out the autopsy results and whether this body can be identified as Crystal Rogers? Yes, we are waiting on that information to get all the details from the lab in Quantico back to us here in Bardstown. Police say they're not going to release any further information until that comes back. And family is also being very, very tight-lipped right now. They're asking for respect to the family, and they just basically want to not talk right now. Up until now, this was a, quote, no body case. Has it all changed?

We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.