Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - FIND HIM: Missing Tot Dane Paulsen, 2, Vanished From Front Yard

Episode Date: March 5, 2025

The search for Dane Paulsen continues. Crews have searched 382 acres. In the first 24 hours of his disappearance, the Lincoln County Sheriff's Office, working with local, state, and federal agencies, deployed 88 certified search and rescue members, four watercraft, four divers, four drones, six human-trailing K9s, 40 investigators, and 138 community volunteers. The FBI is providing family resources through its Victim Services Division. Volunteers arrived at sunrise to help search for the two-year-old, who has been missing since around 4:30 p.m. the previous day. Law enforcement, surprised by the large turnout, set up a command post at a boat launch across the river from the toddler’s home. In a Facebook post, Dane’s mother, Cha Met, pleaded for help, writing, “Our baby is missing. His name is Dane. He’s 2 years old, but he looks like he’s 3 or 4. He was wearing navy blue shoes with two stars, white socks, black sweats, and a dark blue zip-up hooded fleece with teddy bear ears.” Police continue asking the public for any information that could help find the toddler. Joining Nancy Grace today  Anne Bremner - Trial Lawyer, Legal Analyst, and Author: “Justice in the Age of Judgment;" X: @annembremner, Instagram: @Anne_Bremner  Angela Arnold -  Psychiatrist, Atlanta GA; Expert in the Treatment of Pregnant/Postpartum Women, Former Assistant Professor of Psychiatry, Obstetrics and Gynecology: Emory University, Former Medical Director of The Psychiatric Ob-Gyn Clinic at Grady Memorial Hospital; Voted My Buckhead’s Best Psychiatric Practice of  2022, 2023 and 2024 Dave Moyer - Georgia K9 Tracker, Master Trainer K9 Tracker, Program Manager for Military Contracts, Former Navy Bomb Disposal Master Technician, and Former Deputy K9 With San Bernardino Sheriff Dept.  Ben Dobrin  -  Emergency Medical Services Marine Dive Team and EMS Police Search and Rescue, Dean of the D. Henry Watts School of Professional Studies and Professor of Social Work: Virginia Wesleyan University  Dave Mack - CrimeOnline Investigative Reporter  Cicily Cook - Volunteer Searcher  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Find him. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A missing tot boy, Dane Paulson, just two years old, vanishes from his own front yard. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.

A two-year-old Oregon boy vanishes from his own front yard. Authorities intensify the search for Dane Paulson. And this is what we are learning from Sheriff Adams Shanks. At the time of Dane's disappearance, he was playing in the front yard of the residence, out of sight of his parents. 382 acres have been searched thus far,

as well as 283 miles covered. That is Sheriff Adams Shanks from Lincoln County Sheriff's Department speaking. The search is on and continuing as we go to air right now. For those of you just joining us, a two-year-old little tot boy goes missing from his own front yard. Now, this is what we know so far. Parents of Dane Paulson realize he has been out of their sight for too long. They look around the yard and inside the home and every place he could be hiding but not finding him quickly. A call is placed to the Lincoln County Sheriff's Office and deputies are sent to investigate a missing toddler call around 4 25 p.m. Deputies immediately begin a

search of the house surrounding yard as well as the banks of the Sillits River. A search for two-year-old Dane Paulson is hindered by darkness, and the Lincoln County Sheriff's Department quickly organizes a search for the following morning at sunup. Joining me, in addition to an all-star panel, is a very special guest. Cicely Cook is joining us. When she heard the call, she immediately responded to try and find top boy Dane. Guys, for those of you just joining us, a two year old little boy is missing. The search is on. If you know or think you know anything about this little boy, just two years old, 541-265-0669. Repeat 541-265-0669. Cicely, thank you for being with us. Cicely, tell me exactly what happened when you found out Dane was missing and what you did. I'm like an acquaintance to the family. I wouldn't say I'm a close friend, but we have a lot of mutual close friends. And so

it came across my social media within 30 minutes of him going missing. I had seen it. And, you know, it's a rural area. People let their kids play in the yard all the time. So I thought to myself, you know, they'll find him. He'll be somewhere tonight. And by morning, they'll have found him. I woke up at 530 the next morning because I just couldn't sleep. And I wanted to know. And I got on social media and saw that Celeste was asking for community volunteers to come out. And I jumped right out of bed and went. Thankfully, my husband was off of work that day. So I was able to get out there really early Sunday morning. And we waited around for some instructions. And around

nine o'clock, they started organizing civilian searches. And that's when I joined them. When you joined them, tell me what you observed. We had been standing around for a while, kind of up on the bridge and across the way in the community boat park and, you know, just discussing and looking around at what we were allowed to look around at in that area and just kind of throwing theories back and forth. And there was a lot of speculations happening, a lot of people trying to get a straight story of what was going on. And we were standing up at the bridge and they had just brought out the scent hounds down to the riverbank at roughly about 830, I would say. I didn't have my phone on me. I don't have service out there. So that's just kind of a guess at the time.

And they were bringing the dogs down to the bank and the dogs were going off and then they went back up. So, you know, they were digging through the brush. I kind of thought, you know, maybe they had found something and that, you know, unfortunately, you know, but it turns out that, you know, they still wanted us to search. So they started putting together search parties. And we all started on, it would be the north side of the bridge. So if you're facing the property, the bridge is to the right side of the house. And we were on the other side of the bridge where Elks Lodge Campground is. Dave Moyer with us, Georgia K-9 tracker, master trainer, program manager at military contracts, and very important, deputy K-9 instructor with San Bernardino sheriffs. Dave Moyer, the fact that

so much time was lost in the dark hours, that's a problem because you saw the map very, very densely forested. When they realize the baby is gone from the front yard, it's quickly getting dark. So a real full on search could not ensue till the morning. Although they tried, it's really hard to conduct a search for a tiny tot in the night. Agreed. Agreed. One of the benefits of that area being so heavily forested is that the scent of if he had wandered off into the woods is certainly going to be a far more productive environment for his scent to last longer. So getting the trailing dogs out there trying to track to where he might have wandered even the next morning would probably would probably have been beneficial if in fact

he had wandered off into the woods. It's a very productive environment so I suspect that his odor trail would have lasted a lot longer in that environment. Wait why do you say that Dave? What these dogs are following or that the scent theory behind what they're following is as a person is moving around you have all oils, some of the sweat raining off you, and also the dead skin cells, also called skin rafts. What the dogs are able to pick up on is that human debris that is constantly being generated by your body as they're leaving a trail and walking. And they're actually able to differentiate the mild decomposition of just that, those little tiny body particles that fall off of you. And that's how they're able to determine a direction. So a well-trained trailing dog can very easily locate somebody in that environment.

But again, time is of the essence because biological decay, and I mean that just for the trail, it happens very rapidly, even in a pristine environment like that. Back to Cicely Cook, a volunteer searcher who wakes up at around 5 a.m. in the morning and takes off to help find Dane. Did you see Dane's mother and father? I did. They had been out searching and had walked past me on the bridge and I gave the mom some well wishes, but they're just really not in the headspace to hear from anybody right now. They're so concerned about where their son is. Cicely, please describe their demeanor. Upset. I mean, when the mom walked past me, you know, I had tried to kind of, you know,

send some well wishes and it was like just staring into a void. She's just so stressed out, so tired. She's not eating. She's not sleeping. It's so rough on a mom to be going through that, and she's just on autopilot right now. She's doing everything she can to find her son. What about the dad? The dad is, I think he's really playing a strong role for the family right now, but you can just, it's all over his face. You know, they, they're not handling this so well emotionally as any parent would, you know, they love their kids, their local business owners. They're very, you know, they're very prominent in the community and they love their family and they love their community.

And so this is something that's hit them really, really hard. Joining me right now is a longtime colleague and, dare I say, close friend, Ann Bremner, high profile lawyer out of the Seattle area. She's a legal analyst. She's the author of Justice in the Age of Judgment. You can find her at annbremner.com. She's on every social platform. Ann, you know why I'm asking these questions and I don't want to ask these questions, but from all my training as a prosecutor and investigator, you have to ask the obvious

question. Now, other sources, in addition to Cicely Cook, have already told me, but they were not eyewitnesses, that the parents are distraught and they are out on foot looking for their child. And as I'm saying that, Ann, I'm getting chills because I'm, you know, John David and Lucy, my children, I can only imagine what these parents are going through out looking. But it heartens me to know they're out looking and they're not hiding behind the walls of their home. Remember, like Susan Smith did after her horrible play where she snotted and all that. They're not hiding. They're out there looking.

That means a lot to me. Well, it means a lot. And Nancy, if there's one child missing, it's one child too many. And you've been shining a light on missing children and people for decades. And so you're asking all the right questions. And of course, they are looking for their child. I live in Seattle. This is Oregon. I have a place in Bend, actually, in Oregon. We are like almost two-thirds forest in these states. And this is a pretty rural town. I mean, they're right on a river with all those trees and everything else. So you've got drones.

You've got divers. You've got dogs. They're doing everything they can do to find this precious child. Ann Bremner, explain to me your understanding. And you and I have seen it before. You and I have investigated it before you and I have investigated it before we've analyzed it before we've brought down hell on everybody that was responsible before. How did Dane go missing from the front yard? What was he out there playing? Did he have

siblings? Uh, was somebody watching him? What happened? And I get it. When I grew up in the middle of rural Georgia, we could play all day until 6 p.m. till we heard the chimes and the Methodist staple. Then we knew to go home. Right. And that was fine. And there are still places in America where that is OK. This is not an attack on the parents. As a matter of fact, it's the commendation that they are raising their children in a place where there's little to no fear. Right. Very rural. Everybody knows each other. So what do we know about how he disappeared from the front yard? Well, that's exactly what I want to know, Nancy. And I kept going on Google and, you know, circumstances of his disappearance, what was happening before 430 that day?

And I'll tell you something. I couldn't find anything. Now, it doesn't mean that there aren't details that were given to the police at the time. But the fact is, it's just playing in the yard. And then they they did lost track of them. And then he's not there anymore. You know, I grew up like you did. I mean, my mom whistled at dinnertime. We were out there on our steamway bikes and in the neighborhood. And my parents didn't necessarily know where any of us

were for a few hours. But this is different. The population there, I think, is about 1,200. And of course, there's forests around there and a river. But how long was he missing before they noticed? What was he doing? There's an older siblings, I understand it. And these parents are very distraught. But it's really important, as you said, to know exactly what happened when he went missing, exactly what time that was, to try and figure out where he is now. You know, Ann, I'm bringing up other cases where children have just disappeared, literally snatched out of the front yard. And the first case that you and I investigated together was that of little Samantha Runyon. Listen. She was laid right here. Literally across the path. She was literally across the path.

He purposefully exposed her. In Orange County, California, Samantha Runyon is playing a board game with a friend in the front yard of her apartment when a man approaches asking if Samantha can help him find his dog. As the man talks, he edges closer to Samantha until he's able to grab the five-year-old. Samantha is kicking and screaming as the man is able to throw her in his car and drive away. Erin Runyon begins pleading for the return of her daughter. On TV news, she holds pictures of Samantha and promises she doesn't want vengeance, just her daughter. Three days later and 50 miles from her home, the body of Samantha Runyon is recovered in a rugged area of Riverside County. This is the case used to push through the Amber

Alert system we know today. When you first saw our now colleague Erin Runyon speaking out, that was from our friends at Orange County Register. Ann Brimner, I recall all those nights in the studio that we worked on the Samantha Runyon case. And she was literally taken out of the front yard. And remember the grandma was in the kitchen, looking out, looking right out the kitchen window at the baby. And the guy comes up and grabs the baby and leaves their other children playing with Samantha. Everything was fine. And in a moment, it's all over. And the grandma runs out and it just hell breaks loose. It happens just like that. And do you remember Samantha? Yeah. Oh, I remember like it was yesterday,

Nancy. It was so horrible. And you're exactly right. And you can happen in just a heartbeat. It's just like Adam Walsh, you know, John Walsh, you know, shopping in a store and all of a sudden you turn around and they're not there. And little kids can get pretty fast, pretty far away, pretty quick. But this is basically an abduction in front of God and everybody in plain sight. And look what happened. I remember it like it was yesterday. What a tragedy. Guys, just like you heard our guest Cicely Cook describing waking up around 5 30 a.m. and rushing to help find Dane, the search is on. Volunteers show up

at Sunup to help look for two-year-old Dane Paulson, who has now been missing since around 4 30 p.m. the previous day. And law enforcement again setting up a command post for search efforts at a boat launch across the river from the toddler's home. In a heartbreaking post on Facebook, Dane's mother, Chomet, pleads with the public for help, saying, quote, our baby is missing. His name is Dane. He's two years old. He looks like he's three or four. He was wearing navy blue shoes with two stars, white socks, black sweats, with a dark blue zip-up hooded fleece with teddy bear ears on the hood of his zip-up. Hundreds volunteer to search for a two-year-old Oregon boy. The toddler last seen playing alone in his front yard, a river nearby. How did this little boy disappear from his own front yard? You know what?

That may be neither here nor there because it's done. The search is what's happening right now. And there is a chance to bring this child home alive. This little boy playing in the front yard when mom realizes he's gone. The search expanding at this hour. As the search for Dane Paulson expands, officials ask that volunteers remain out of certain areas and to treat all areas as a possible crime scene. The Lincoln County Sheriff's Office is being assisted by the Oregon State Police, Lincoln City Police Department, Newport PD, FBI, Siletz Valley Fire, Lane County Sheriff's Office, Clackamas County Sheriff's Office, Polk County Sheriff's Office, Corvallis Mountain Rescue, Mary's Peak SAR, and Region 3 K-9. Multiple

search and rescue teams and sheriff's posses, along with the community volunteers, are following search area guidelines as marine teams and divers are searching the river, and the Lincoln County Major Crime Team and the FBI are also assisting with investigative leads. With me now from CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter Dave Mack, the FBI is involved? Absolutely, Nancy. This case garnered a lot of attention in legal communities, and everybody joined in. They picked up the phone and called saying, we need help. We've got a huge area to cover.

It's very difficult. We need every asset, every resource. And the FBI popped right in and started assisting the Lincoln County Sheriff's Office. To Ann Bremner, a high profile lawyer out of this jurisdiction. Ann, again, you and I have dealt with so many searches for children. The FBI brought in, what does that say to you? Something multi-state. I mean, you and I also talked about Lindsey Baum, remember, in McCleary, Washington,

a count of about a thousand. You know, she was abducted and planned to side off the freeway. So, I mean, I look at something like this, and although those cases of abduction are pretty rare, they're out there, like Samantha and like Lindsey, and maybe this child. So, I think that that might be one reason they're involved. Everybody's involved, like we just heard in the list. That is so many agencies in Oregon and outside of Oregon. It's unbelievable. I mean, the attention to this is amazing and great, but I would think it has something to do with some kind of travel, maybe outside of Oregon. I'm not sure what else it could be. I'd have to think about that one. Yeah, multi-state. They are

looking at a multi-state investigation right now and i'm trying to figure out why of course ann bremner it could be as simple as the fbi has been called upon to use their resources we don't know why the fbi is involved but this is what we're learning from sergeant jason spano franklin county sheriffs we are using drones divers watercraft canines and even a sign cutter to thoroughly cover the area. A sign cutter is a highly trained individual on tracking techniques that involve finding and following signs left behind by people or animals. Okay, that's our friends at KGW hearing Spano speaking. Dave Moyer, are you familiar with a sign cutter? Yes, it's something that it's commonly incorporated in. Actually, the U.S.

military used to use this back in the Vietnam era for some of the long range teams where they go out and do the long range tracking teams utilizing canine. A sign cutter is usually a visual tracker is another name for it. And there's just varying levels of expertise. And you're looking for anything left behind, footprints, overturned pebbles, broken twigs, matted down grass, any number of things that if you grew up on Westerns like I did, you used to see the Indian tractors talking about on the movies all the time. They, a sign cutter, look for any trace. They look, I know Cicely Cook has been out looking, she's a volunteer searcher, searching for Dane all sorts of hours of the morning, noon and night. A sign cutter looks for things, try to send them in ahead of volunteers, even ahead of LA law enforcement.

They look for things like a broken twig. They look for things like a thread, a sock in an odd location. For instance, in the case we just brought to you, Abby and Libby, the two little girls murdered off the trestle bridge in Delphi, portions of their clothes, like a sock, were found downstream from where their bodies were found. So when a sign cutter sees a sock, that may mean nothing to some people. It will mean everything to a sign cutter. They look for subtle irregularities that the rest of us may not see. Cicely Cook, volunteer searcher, when you were let loose with all of the

other volunteers, were you given any instructions? Did you see the sign cutter? No. We were told to try to stay in a grid pattern. Unfortunately, a lot of people out there didn't really know what they were doing. And it is unfortunate because a lot of places just got trampled. And I don't know that that first couple hours was very effective. So they did gather everybody back together. And Dan Clanton, who is actually

another local business owner, is the one who organized all of the individual little search parties and sent them out in certain directions. I had actually kind of broke off on my own and went and looked on my own until I had my own group of friends show up and then we all looked together but I wanted to be able to kind of go off on my own because a lot of people were being very loud they're talking about soccer practice last week and things like that and you couldn't hear anything if you tried and so i kind of went in an opposite direction of where everybody else went and those were the things that i was looking for threads clothes handprints in the mud slide marks where somebody slipped broken brush push down brush you know and i'm going in all the little tiny holes a two-year-old could go in. I actually have a beagle and I let him lead the way. Anywhere he went, I went. Sorry, I have a little with me.

Please, I'm happy to hear your baby, especially at a moment like this. Hey, baby. Yeah, I'm thinking about what you're saying, Cicely. I have a four-year-old and a one-year-old. I'm glad they're both home with me. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Cicely, what is the closest highway or roadway to where Dane's home is? It's Kernville Highway. So I'm not actually sure what the highway number is on that. 229 or two. Is that what this is? Yeah, 229.

So we around here, we call it the Kernville-Saletz Highway. It takes us from Lincoln City, Kernville area all the way through Saletz and out to Toledo. It connects all the way through and it runs in front of their house. So it does connect from the Saletz Bridge where like the Salishan Resort is. It's kind of right in that area. And then it goes all the way over to Toledo straight through St. Louis. Okay. What you're saying all the way to Toledo, are you referring to Toledo Street, of course? Yeah, that's highway where 229 connects. Yeah. Gotcha. It's the St. Louis Highway, Highway 229. Ann Brimley, you know where I'm going with this. Ann, I'm sure you recall, as we all do, the case of Shasta and Dylan Groney. And of course, at the beginning, everyone thought somehow family was involved.

They weren't. They were massacred as well. A perv was driving down the interstate. It was Coord Lane, Idaho. And if you look at it above, it looks very similar to what you and I are looking at right now. It reminds me very much of when I was camp counselor in National Forest. And when we would have campers come through, we'd practically hold on to them so they wouldn't get lost in that forest. This guy driving along the interstate happens to see Shasta and

Dylan, brother, sister in an above ground pool. And he pulls over, lays in wait, kills the family and takes the children. Shasta alone survived. So what I'm saying is this connects to is Sellots Highway 229. How fast could somebody get to an interstate and be gone with Dane? Well, absolutely. And that case was so tragic. And again, it was in the Pacific Northwest, like Oregon, it was in Idaho

and at Coeur d'Alene, a beautiful resort where this is, or the missing toddler is, Sellotshan, the resort is stunningly gorgeous. And you're talking about the, basically the coastline of Oregon. And this highway right at their house, it could be just like the Shasta Groney case. It could be just like Melissa and Lindsey Baum and McCleary. That was like basically an exit and going back on the freeway 101 here in Washington state. And she was found many, many years later in Eastern Washington.

And of course she'd been murdered. So right at the river, you know, right at the highway there. Absolutely. It's like some other cases, some other tragic cases we've seen here in the northwest. An Oregon toddler playing alone in his front guard vanishes. A mystery car seen nearby. Police question the owner. Where is two-year-old Dane Paulson? What, if anything, does a gold station wagon have to do with the search for this little boy Dane?

Investigators canvass the area, searching for any clue or tip that may lead them to Dane Paulson and come up with a possible suspect. A suspicious vehicle and an adult male were noticed near a bridge close to the family residence, and the family is not familiar with the man or his gold station wagon that was parked nearby around 30 minutes prior to Dane Paulson's disappearance. As law enforcement gets the word out about the gold station wagon and the unknown male inside, a tip comes in with more info about the man and his car. Straight out to Dr. Angela Arnold joining me, psychiatrist in the Atlanta jurisdiction. Dr. Angie can be found at AngelaArnoldMD.com. Dr. Angie, that right there strikes fear in every parent's heart. Why?

If your child is missing in the woods, you got a good chance of finding the child, right? With a tracker dog or just by calling the child unless it's been hurt. But if somebody takes a child in a vehicle, that's a whole nother scenario. And pervs have it down. They know what to do. As in the case that Ann and I were just talking about, Lindsey Baum or Samantha Runyon or Faye Swetlik,

they know what they're doing and they often watch the child for a period of time before they abscond with the child in the vehicle. Then you're looking at 60 MPH. It's nearly impossible to get your child back. You know, Nancy, a couple of questions that I have, and I'm sure some of the viewers are wondering about this also. Is this typical for the child to play out in the yard around this time of day? A big question I have is how far could a child, could a little bitty two-year-old toddler go? I mean, they're talking about all of these miles and miles that they've searched. How could a little guy have gone that many miles in a short period of time?

You would think he would lay down and maybe fall asleep at night or something like that. So to me, those those those things unfortunately lend to the thought that he was taken. And oh, my God, Nancy, I mean, I'm so sorry for these parents, because if he was taken, it's like finding a needle in a haystack, isn't it? Well, the tip regarding the gold station wagon hits a wall. Following up on a tip that comes in from the community, the gold station wagon and the man inside are located by local law enforcement. Thinking this could be a break in the case, officers follow up everything and determine that the man and his car

are not involved in the disappearance of Dane Paulson and thank the community for sharing information so quickly. They also use this as an example of how tips related to the investigation will be treated and ask for the public to continue providing information that could lead them to the toddler. The search still active and gaining traction and joining me, Cicely Cook, what instructions, if any, were you given? You said that it started off as a grid search, but then it all changed. What exactly happened? You've told me the demeanor of the mom and dad, and that corroborates what I've already learned, that they are distraught and they are out searching for their child. What were you told? Any instructions at all? We were told that if we found him, not to touch him, to cover him up with our hoodie or jacket, and to go and get help.

We were given some light instructions, a grid searching, space out at an equal space, stay where you can see each other within, you know, three or four feet of each other and continue on that way um we were told that if we find any of the clothes that he was described to be seen wearing when he went missing not to touch it to go and report it leave it where it's at um take a picture of it on your phone if you can. Even after the sighting of a gold station wagon, as it relates to the disappearance of Dane, that ended up as a dead end. Questions arise as to lack of an Amber Alert. As the first 48 hours have passed with no sign of Dane Paulson, memories of the community want to know why an Amber Alert has not been pushed out regarding the missing toddler. The Lincoln County Sheriff's Department explains Dane's disappearance does not meet the criteria to use the Amber Alert system. Okay, Dave Mack, what does that mean?

No Amber Alert went out on Dane Paulson. Why? The real reason, they mentioned criteria, but the biggest one is there's not enough descriptive information about the victim and the abduction for law enforcement to actually issue an Amber Alert to assist in the recovery of the child. In this case, there was no vehicle. The gold station wagon checked out, but there was no description of car, person, or anything. So there was nothing to go on. An Amber Alert would have actually not been able to do anything more than say we have a missing child, and that's not enough to issue.

382 acres have been searched and 283 miles have been covered, but the numbers for areas searched continues to grow as the search is ongoing. In the first 24 hours of Dane Paulson's disappearance, the Lincoln County Sheriff's Office, in coordination with other local, state, and federal entities, have deployed 88 certified search and rescue members, four watercraft, four divers, four drones, six human trailing canines, 40 investigators, 138 community volunteers, and the FBI is providing family resources through their Victim Services Division. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

In rural Oregon, a two-year-old vanishes playing in his own yard. Police ask for help from the public. Right now, the search goes on for this tot boy, Dane Paulson, last seen in his own front yard. And now, words to the searchers. As the search for Dane continues, law enforcement is clear they would like to hear from the community with tips, but are encouraging volunteers to limit their searching to daylight hours. The professionals are out at night, but it isn't safe for volunteers. Those interested in volunteering are asked to check in at the staging area at the Elks-Takoti-Ilahi Campground

on Saletz Highway in Saletz, Oregon. Dave Moyer joining me, tracker, master trainer, canine tracker, and it goes on and on. Why do they say it's unsafe for volunteers to search at night? I mean, this child is just two and he's out there. That might be a liability driven for the policy of the department and the search and rescue teams that are out there. A lot of volunteers that aren't trained to stomp around in the woods at night can easily fall, get themselves hurt, and then create another

situation where they would have to employ other resources to extract those people and give them medical care. So obviously the point is not to injure or kill anybody else while looking for this young boy. As the search is expanding at this hour, we understand that LA law enforcement has used every tool at their disposal. As the search for Dane Paulson continues, the technology being used to find the toddler is as good as it gets, with the use of heat-seeking drones high overhead monitoring the river running 100 feet from where Dane was last seen. Joining me right now is Ben Dobrin, Emergency Medical Services Marine Dive Team expert, Dean at the D. Henry Watts School of Professional

Studies and Professor of Social Work. Ben, thank you for being with us. How would a water search go of the Siletz River? It opens directly to the ocean at some point. The water search would be very interesting because I don't know that body of water if it's moving. Obviously, the first place they'll search is the closest, the last known point or the point where they would think that child would go in. So they would search close. And then if that, I mean, it's a river, so the water is going to flow. I just don't know what the flow rate is.

You're going to want to go downstream, obviously, and do that. But, you know, if the water is not moving too much, you'll search that area, whether it's going to be with sonar first. Oftentimes you'll put boats in the water with sonar to see if you find some sort of anomaly, some sort of target, and then you'll put divers in the water. A river like that is so, you know, even if it's 100 yards across, it's still miles long side to side. so it's a lot of waterway. You can put divers in right where you think the child went in to clear that area, but then you've got miles and miles downstream, and you can just start is in an area, you're going to keep looking with sonar or on the shore. You have a lot of shore-based resources. The walkers who are looking

on the shore, we had a child drown recently in my city and we had walkers on the shoreline, you know, in the reeds and in the trees and in the grasses right on the shoreline to see if something will get washed up. It could be clothing. It could be a shoe. You know, those are all clues. Those are all pieces of evidence. So you're not, you're just, you're looking for anything that will give you a clue where, where this, where this child is. And so divers are a great tool, but you know, you can only cover a very small area at a time with a diver. Missing toddler Dane Paulson last seen wearing a gray fuzzy hoodie with ears, blue and white shoes, and black pants. His family desperately begging

for help. Dane Paulson is big for his age. He's only two, but he looks to be three or four years old as he plays in the front yard of the family home. Dane is a friendly and outgoing child. Living in the country, Dane plays outside in the yard around the house. Even out of sight for a few minutes, his parents aren't too worried as Dane is probably exploring around the yard. Many people have been attacking the parents online. I think that's totally uncalled for in this area. It's routine practice for children to play outdoors. It's rural, very, very practically non-existent crime rate. And it's certainly not the first time a child has gone missing from the front yard.

These parents distraught out searching for their child. Again, not the first time this has happened. Does the name Athena Strand ring a bell? Because I will never forget it. The joy Athena gave her family and the joy she felt on Christmas is something we will never feel with her again. That delivery driver admitting to kidnapping and killing my innocent, free-spirited seven-year-old daughter on Friday, December 2nd. At the time of Athena's abduction, she was staying with her stepmother and father in Paradise, Texas, doing what kids do. Playing within the bounds of her father's property on the same land he grew up and played on.

That from our friends at CBS Texas. Of course, we're talking about little Athena Strand, just seven years old. Seven-year-old Athena Strand is at her father's house in Paradise, Texas, three weeks before Christmas, playing outside. When she's called to come inside, Athena doesn't respond. A quick search of the area turns up no sign of the child and police are called. For three days, the search becomes a national story. Investigators interview FedEx driver Tanner Horner, who delivered a package at the home and he admits to backing into Athena that day and claims out of fear he threw her into his FedEx truck and took off. He strangles Athena and leads police to the creek where he left her body. At this hour, Dave Mack, the search is going on for two-year-old Dane. What does the search, what's it comprised of right now? The search is comprised of land, sea, air.

Using every resource available, Nancy, they are targeting the area around the house and beyond looking using heat seeking um you know from above where they could see like if we've got the little boy in the woods they would be able to spot a heat signature um we've they're putting boats on the water divers in the water as well and of course there's crews that are grid searching areas around the woods, but it's very thick. That's why they've talked about how difficult it would be for a two-year-old to be able to go through the woods when adults are having trouble moving things out of the way. The search of the Sellots River going on. Ann Bremner with me, high-profile lawyer out of this

jurisdiction who has dealt with so many similar cases. What is your advice to searchers and to the parents tonight? Keep the faith. I mean, they've got dogs, drones, and divers. Just keep it going one foot in front of the other. That's all they can do. And hope for the best. I mean, really hope to find this child. But they're doing everything they can do. Cicely Cook, are you going to search again? Yeah, I'm actually going back out today. So I'm an avid kayaker and I'm an avid camper of that area. I kayak the Salets River three, four times a week, maybe more during the summer and during the warmer season. So me and my best friend today are going to go put in at Iquit Park, which is more down towards the bottom of the river. Currently, right now, professional search and rescue is focusing on the point of the home and

then two miles downstream. They're saying that the water temperature is about 44 degrees. It's moving about five to ten miles per hour, and you can see about five to 10 feet in front of you under the water. And to you, Dave Moyer, children have been found after several days. It's not over yet. That's correct. And it really kind of depends on what canines they're able to employ. There's a couple of different disciplines out there. In this case, the trail is going to be pretty much gone with the time that has elapsed. But you can do what's called area search dogs and live search dogs and search large areas very quickly.

And there's a piece to this that I wanted to bring up. No one's really mentioned it. I'm not that familiar with the area for what kind of wildlife might be out there. He's small enough that it is possible that, you know, perhaps a wild animal managed to pick him up. I worked a case where a two-year-old was picked up by a coyote and drug into the woods once several years ago in California. So, I mean, these are all options. I just don't have any information for what these guys are seeing on the ground, if there's any evidence whatsoever to point them in that direction. Well, Dave Moyer, none of us want that, but it's a possibility. And in our line of business, we have to look at every possibility.

Ben, that was Dave Moyer joining us and now Ben Dobrin. I mean, there's Sean Hornbeck and Ben Omby that were found years after their kidnaps. I don't want that here for that time to go by. My point is there is hope. It's not over yet, Ben. Oh, absolutely. It's not over yet. I mean, you're right. They have found kids who've been out in the woods for days, you know, and they're just

kind of down in a hole or in a gully or somewhere and there's waiting for somebody to find them. One of the things as a public safety is this kid going missing is very important. We just heard from the volunteer search and rescue person, the kayaker. One of the things as a public safety is this, kids going missing is very important. We just heard from the volunteer search and rescue person, the kayaker. Everybody in the community wants to do this. Everybody wants to help. You better believe that police and fire and EMS are out there, and they are not going to stop. They want to find this child. They want to find him happy, healthy, and well, you know, but they're going to keep looking until they find,

no matter what that means, they're not going to be giving up at all. This is the focus of public safety in that county and the multiple counties around it and around the country right now. People, this is important, when there's a missing child, we have an instinctual, you know, we want to help, we want to find that child, and the fire police, the search and rescue folks out there, they're not going to rest. The problem is, you know, after this goes on for two or three or four days, you've got to make them rest. And you've got to tell people, take care of yourself. You've got to start staggering people, go home, eat something. But the community is pulling together and the community is not going to stop. They're going. They're going to keep going. They're putting people out in the woods and those are dense woods. It's tiring. It's exhausting. But people want to help.

And they're not going to stop. They're not going to stop until they until there's a reason to stop. If you know or think you know anything about the disappearance of this top boy, Dane Paulson, please dial 541-265-0669. Now, we remember an American hero, police officer Nathan Heidelberg, Midland PD, Texas, 28, shot and killed in the line of duty. Survived by parents Nathan England Dean, sisters Amy, Molly, Heidi. American hero, police officer Nathan Heidelberg, Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.