Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Five unsolved murders in 'The Most Beautiful Small Town in America,' Bardstown

Episode Date: December 27, 2019

Since 2013, there have been four murders and one disappearance in a small Kentucky town. The person who disappeared is presumed dead. Nancy Grace goes in-depth with the producer and co-host of the podcast "Bardstown," Jessica Noll. Investigative reporter Shay McAlister of WHAS reveals a new release of all their collective information and evidence in these cases. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I want to tell you a story about a town in Kentucky, a beautiful, close-knit town where some truly horrible things have happened. I know everybody, so it's hard also to think that somebody here in my town would do such a thing. A police officer with a wife and two young sons, a teacher and her teenage daughter, a 35-year-old mother, and 18 months later, her father. Four of them murdered, one of them missing, considered dead.

All of the cases are unsolved. It makes me fearful to even speak of it. So that kind of gives you a little insight. We'll tell you about those victims and not only how they died, but how they lived and delve into the lives turned upside down by these horrific crimes. Growing up here and dealing with everything that's going on now, it's like,

I'm surprised this town's even standing. Bardstown, the quote, most beautiful small town in America. Does it hold a deadly secret? Well, a brand new podcast is tackling five unsolved murders surrounding this small and quaint Kentucky town. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories, and I've got two very special guests I want to introduce to you. Jessica Knoll, my longtime friend, investigative journalist, and now podcast producer with Vault Studios, who has created the Bardstown podcast with her, Shea McAllister, investigative reporter with WHAS in Louisville. Welcome, ladies. Jessica Null, let's start with you. Jessica, how did we actually meet? I've known about you for years and years, but how did we actually meet? I think the first time that we met

was when Paige Johnson disappeared from Northern Kentucky. And I was covering that story back in, I think, 2008. And I came on your show. And which show? Which show? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, was I mean to you? Did I cut you off and try to argue with you? I hope you scared me a little. I'm so happy. I'm so happy. I hope I made you teetee just a tiny bit. Now, wait a minute. Now, I remember that very, very well. I can't imagine what I could have argued with you about, but that, you know, whenever I didn't disagree with someone, the ratings just went. So whatever you said, I'm sure I disagreed. I remember your reporting on that was excellent, Jessica Knoll. Now, Jessica, how did you come up with the idea for the Bardstown Podcast? And that is Bard, B as in brother, A-R-D-D-O-G-S-T-O-W-N, as in the Bard, as in Shakespeare, BardstownPodcast.com.

How did you come up with the idea? Well, actually, I didn't come up with the idea. This was a pitch from Shay. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Stop right there. You obviously haven't been in the media business for very long because everybody takes credit for everything, whether it's theirs or not. I've learned that the hard way. Oh, my goodness. The ideas I've pitched in this like and then like two months later we announced. I'm like, what? So I'm actually hearing someone truthful and Jackie, Dave, can you believe this? She's actually saying it was somebody else's idea. I am so happy. I've got so many people that I credit with. Well, the Nancy Grace show, let's just start right there.

Because Jessica, you remember being on HLN. I don't know if you could hear all the commotion in the control room in New York, but there would be 20 people in the control room, including my beloved executive producer, Dean Sicoli. So, I mean, it takes a lot of people to pull a show like that off. And here, Jackie, Dave, Wilson, Lee Egan, Ellen Kalorn, I mean, there's no single person in my mind can really build a successful program. And I hate to use the worn out words, it takes a village, but it really does. I got to hand it to you, Jessica, for giving Shea the credit. Let's go to Shea McAllister, investigative reporter with WHAS in Louisville. Shea, let me just start off with getting something straight.

How many people mispronounce Louisville? Mostly everyone. I cannot believe you nailed it right on the first try. That never happens. You're not kidding, Shea McAllister. And I'll tell you, the only reason I know how to say it correctly at the get-go. When I first got out of law school, I took a job. It was the only legal job I did not like in any capacity because I worked for a judge who was just, let me say, a big horse's ass. I mean, there's really no way around it. Oh, my goodness, he was the worst. And he also smoked in the office.

I just want to put that out there. In the federal courthouse, I might add. Well, anyway, why are you laughing, Jackie? He was, I mean, the worst. Every day, give me some coffee. I mean, at least be nice about ordering your female clerk around. Anyway, that's a whole nother can of worms. But another intern who I adored, Lisa Hoard,

made name Lisa English, was from Louisville. And she didn't tell me how to say it. I heard her say it. And that's how I know how to say it. Because everybody else says Louisville, like Louisville slugger. Wait, is it supposed to be a Louisville slugger? Oh my goodness, now my head's all messed up. Shay, how did you come up with this idea? Well, I've covered these cases here in Louisville for the last four years since I moved here and started working as a reporter. And when our parent company and the company that Jessica works for, Vault Studios, asked for pitches, asking for what's going to be a good story, what's going to be our next big podcast, I thought this one was perfect for it. It's hard to believe. It really

is. Guys, with me, Shea McAllister, investigative reporter with WHAS in Louisville. And no, it is not Louisville. Okay, that makes the residents of Louisville just cringe. Also with me, Jessica Knoll, investigative journalist, my longtime friend, and now podcast producer with Vault Studios. The name of the podcast, Bardstown Podcast. Take a listen to this. Okay, now, it's scary. Warning. He sees something in the middle of the road. There are freshly cut and purposely placed tree limbs in the middle of the exit ramp. He pulls his cruiser across the ramp to block any oncoming traffic, puts on his flashing lights, and steps out of his cruiser to remove the debris.

But someone is hiding among the lavender spring flowers just off the slanted pavement. When Jason bends down to grab an armful of branches, he's ambushed. Booming 12-gauge shotgun blasts ring out. He's struck in his Kevlar vest and under his arm. More shots penetrate the darkness and the officer. He's sprayed with pellets, striking his right upper arm, forearm, and right elbow. More plow into his scalp, his forehead, his temple, and his right jaw. He doesn't have time to react or to grab his gun from his holster.

His body collapses to the pavement, and the tree limbs fall onto his legs. Blood seeps onto the asphalt below him, leaving a trail of red. 139, off to E-200. Hello, hello? Officer Dale, Officer Dale, Blue Pill Road? Officer Dale? Oh, my stars. You just scared the crap out of me.

Now, of course, we're not allowed to say crap in our home, but for you, Shay McAllister and Jessica Knoll, I will just let it go. Wow. In that one segment, you have capsulized what this is all about. For those of you just joining us, it's a brand new podcast called Bardstown Podcast. B as in brother, A-R-D-S-T-O-W-N as in Shakespeare the Bard. It is a 10-episode series, and it describes Bardstown, the quote, most beautiful small town in America. It's in the heart of Kentucky, a tight-knit community, but does it harbor a deadly secret? crime stories with nancy grace he frantically grabs the officer's radio on his uniform out of breath he calls over to dispatch i've come home from heaven hill distillery i've just got off work and there was a police car sitting in the middle of the road with the lights on.

And we didn't know what it was. It's a tree across the road. And I didn't know what it was. And I got out and I went up there and looked and it's him. I believe somebody hit him. OK, can you tell if he is breathing? No, sir, he is not breathing. Body temperature is cold. Ma'am, can you give us the status of the officer? Is he conscious? I believe he is dead.

Soon, a flood of blue lights light up the night sky, dancing off of treetops and illuminating the horror Jason's fellow officers are about to drive up to, one by one as they receive the call from dispatch to exit 34. Father, we're not sure. We have officers responding from Bardstown. We had a passerby on the officer's radio. We're not sure what's going on. You are hearing just a tiny bit of the Bardstown podcast about a small Kentucky town that apparently harbors a nefarious, sinister, and deadly secret. To Jessica Knoll, investigative journalist, podcast producer with Vault Studios, explain to me how these five murders are interconnected, or are they? I mean, we're starting off, apparently, with the Officer of the Year, Jason Ellis, on his way home from his shift. So how are the other four murders, in your mind, Jessica, without giving away your 10 episode series finale? Do you think they're connected? Well, starting with Jason's case, you know, I covered that extensively back in 2013 when it happened. And then and I covered it for Cincinnati because that's where he was from.

And then year after year, these other horrific tragedies. Did you say year after year? I know the Bradstown police officer, Jason Ellis, was ambushed and killed on his way home. Just after signing off for the night, it seemed like someone was lying in wait for him near, I believe it was exit 34, and it was around two o'clock in the morning. That's not just a coincidence. Now, a shooting at 2 a.m., yeah, I would get one of those every Saturday night in inner city Atlanta. But in this location at 2 a.m., out on an exit on the highway, that is planned. Now, the next murder, as I recall, was about a year later,

seemingly unconnected, a mother and her daughter. What happened there? So Kathy and Samantha Netherland, her daughter, Samantha, was 16 years old. They didn't show up for school. Samantha didn't show up for, she was a high school student. She didn't show up. And her mom, Kathy, was a special education teacher at the elementary school, and she didn't show up for work. So the mother is a special ed teacher. She doesn't show up. And you're telling me the daughter, Samantha, didn't show up for school.

Was Samantha, did she go to that school or a different school? Samantha went to the high school, and her mom worked at the elementary school. Oh my goodness. You know, if these are interconnected, to solve one solves them all. So let's circle back for a moment. Let's circle back. Take a listen to this. Richard Caldwell grew up visiting his grandparents in Bardstown.

Today, he describes himself as a citizen journalist. The Jason Ellis murder really slammed on the brakes for a lot of people. It made people locally and beyond stop and really pay attention. And I think events that have happened since then just add to that. In his blog, And Now With Us, he shares his thoughts on what he believes happened to the Bardstown police officer. Well, the hot gossip at the time was that a local gang called the BMGs, or the Big Money Gang, they're big on drug trafficking, that they had some sort of involvement in it. And I have cousins who consider themselves parts of the BMG. And from everything I've gathered,

I think there are a bunch of kids that watch entirely too much television. I don't think that they would have the brains or the resources to execute the execution of a law enforcement officer. I mean, just considering the planning that had to go into it, I think it's an easy cop-out to try to pin it on, you know, some gangbanger wannabes. The angle was funny enough that it wasn't just some random idiot with a gun, and it probably wasn't even a hobbyist hunter.

It was someone who knew how to use a long-range assault rifle. And there's a lot of veterans here, but there's also the law enforcement community itself. Oh my goodness. Those last few words open up a real Pandora's box, a real can of worms, as to who the killer may be. You were just hearing Richard Cardwell, a quote, citizen journalist, who is going through some of the theories about the original murder, or at least we think it was the first one, of the officer of the year, Jason Ellis, on his way home. To Jessica Knoll, the star, along with Shane McAllister of Bardstown Podcast. Jessica, what were some of the theories at the get-go when the officer Jason Jason Ellis, was gunned down?

And that was no accident. And that was not a fly-by-the-night or some, quote, kids that had been watching too many video games or playing Call of Duty. Because I got to tell you something, Jessica, and I'm not happy about it. You know how I feel about gun violence. I'm a gun violence victim, for Pete's sake. We do not have guns in the home. We didn't even say the word. We spelled G-U-N. When the children were growing up, they did not play with toy guns. that leaked for a week out in the middle of nowhere. It was beautiful, but let me just say rustic. I shared a tent with about 25 granddaddy long legs. And my son, one of the things they did, one of their classes was gum and shit. I didn't like it, but I thought, well, if I throw some

kind of a fit, he'll want it even more. What it required, one day I logged 33,000 steps on my Fitbit that my children gave me for Mother's Day, hint, hint, mom. And going back and forth so I could keep an eye on him, of course, it was a scout activity and they had it totally well done, orderly, as safe as you can possibly be. Not only did he get his quarter. A quarter is when you fire at 50 feet and you get five consecutive shots in the space of a quarter. The coin. He wasn't, and you have to do it five times, five quarters. Not only that, Jessica, I hope you're sitting down, he got his dime, which is 10 shots at 50 feet in the space of a dime. Oh, my stars. Okay, when I was watching that, and I had to train in ballistics to be an assistant DA.

We had the power to carry a weapon, which I did not. But shooting a high-powered assault rifle at that distance to gun down Ellis, that was not some kid that's been playing Fortnite. I'm beating around the bush, but Jessica, what were some of the theories as to who gunned down, executed the officer. That was definitely a methodical, well-laid-out plan. They were waiting for him. It's believed that he was the target. They knew when he was coming. And we've driven, I've driven several times to that exit off the Bluegrass Parkway

at the time that he was ambushed at 2 a.m. And it is desolate. It is quiet and dark and there's no one on the roads. So they knew that he was coming at that time. And early on, a lot of the theories that came out were this Bardstown money gang or it had to do with drugs, or, you know, was it someone in the police force that had a grudge against him? So there is a lot of floating theories that they, the cartel brought someone in to take care of him, because he was a canine officer. He was the only canine officer at that time. So he was in charge of, you know, getting drugs off the street. But, you know, we talked to his former chief, Rick McCubbin. And according to him, you know, Jason was a very tiny fish in this pond. And he doesn't believe that that it was the cartel or someone coming in to take him out. And they have looked at all the arrests he made, um, and looked at people he arrested and, and, and anything to do with drugs. And so there was a lot of theories, a lot of tips and leads that came in initially. Um, when I asked chief McCubbin about the Bardstown

money gang, because that was a huge theory at the very beginning of all this. He dismissed it immediately. You know, he says they are a small time street thug gang. You know, they're not equipped or, as he says, smart enough to pull something this methodical off. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. To look at this town, this small Kentucky town, a tight-knit community in the heart of Kentucky, it's been called the, quote, most beautiful small town in America, but are a series of murders connected? Shane McAllister, investigative reporter with WHAS in Louisville and Jessica Knoll, investigative journalist and podcast producer with Vault Studios have come together to create Bardstown Podcast. You can find it at bardstownPodcast.com. To Shea McAllister, we just heard from Jessica Knoll, and she said that when the chief of police was asked about the Bardstown money gang, he said something to the effect, well, they're too stupid to pull this off.

You know, criminals, a lot of times, are stupid, and they get lucky. But when you've got a series of, for instance, here, multiple murders, seemingly unconnected, that's not stupid in my book. Yeah. So in these cases, these four different cases, two of them we can say are likely connected because it is a father who had been searching for his missing daughter. A lot of people say that all of them might be connected, but there's never been any ties really put out there like that. Investigators have never confirmed that. It's just conspiracies like Richard Caldwell who try to piece them all together, and that's where we get those ties.

Now, let me understand something. This beautiful young mom, Crystal Rogers, a case that I've been working on, is she part of this, of the Bardstown murders? She is. She was the third case in these string of murders. Wow. Hers, of course, is a disappearance. But police consider her to be dead. Okay, can I just newsflash? She's dead. Crystal Rogers would never have left her family. This is completely unlike her. She's dead.

And you know, Jessica Knoll, you've been with me on HLN many, many times, and I don't like, if I had had the victim's family on right now, I wouldn't have said that the way I just did, because I don't want to hurt their feelings. I mean, they've got to know that it's a possibility in the back of their mind, a very strong possibility. But it never feels good to victim's family to say they're dead. Never. Many times, even after they're buried, you don't want to put like that. It is very upsetting to crime victims' families. So it's my belief, Jessica Knoll, that you, Jessica, and Shane McAllister, because of your Bardstown podcast, may have brought about change. Isn't it true that a new investigator was named on the Crystal Rogers case? Yes, a new investigator has been named for Nelson County Sheriff's Office,

who is the agency investigating the Crystal Rogers disappearance that was announced earlier this week. But when we talked to the Nelson County Sheriff, he did let us know that he has brought on what he calls an A-team to investigate not just her disappearance, but what they're considering her murder. A new lead detective has been named in the disappearance of a beautiful young mom, Crystal Rogers. The Nelson County Sheriff's Office announced that Chief Deputy Jody Gilliland will be the new lead detective in solving what happened to Crystal Rogers. Tell me a little bit, Jessica Knoll, about the disappearance of Crystal Rogers. So Crystal Rogers disappeared the 4th of July weekend in 2015. The last person that she was with was her boyfriend and father of her fifth child, Brooks Houck. According to him, they went and fed cows on his mother's farm. And then they went back home. She was on her phone on the couch, you know, and he goes to bed and he wakes up the next morning.

She's not there. He says he's not concerned because she does quote this all the time. Whatever that means disappears. I don't know. But that's what he tells police. And meanwhile, her family starts to get frantic because they can't find her. They can't. She's not answering her phone. Hold on just a moment. We're talking about, guys, for those of you just joining us, a beautiful mom, Crystal Rogers. Her disappearance and presumed death unsolved now for four years.

She seemingly vanishes without a trace. But interesting, her car, her purse, and other items are found on the Bluegrass Parkway. She has five children. Now, I'm just curious. If Crystal Rogers' case is solved, does that mean the other cases are solved? I'm not necessarily convinced her case is connected all the way back to the officer Jason Ellis's murder or the disappearance of the high school teacher and her teen daughter. It's hard for me to make that connection, but not unheard of. Shane McAllister, we've touched briefly on the murder by a sniper shot of Officer Jason Ellis out on a highway at 2 a.m. We've touched briefly on the disappearance of a high school teacher and her teen daughter. Well, we know that those two are in fact dead. We know about Crystal Rogers. Are there any other murderers covered in the

Bardstown podcast? Yes, there is. And the victim's name is Tommy Ballard. About 16 months after Crystal Rogers disappeared, her father, Tommy Ballard, was shot and killed while hunting on family property with his grandson. Was there a ballistics matchup between the grandson's weapon and the murder of Tommy Ballard? Family have told us that they don't believe the grandson was holding a weapon at that time. He was standing right next to Tommy when Tommy was shot. Wow. Wow. That opens up a whole plethora of possibilities, because I find it hard to believe, unless it was a shooting accident, that the boy shot his grandfather. Very, very rare, extremely rare, almost unheard of. We've heard of parenticide, which is slang for the murder of a parent by a child, much less

the murder of a grandparent. So I find that very difficult to believe. Ballistics, if the bullet was found, unless there's an entry and an exit and the bullet was never found, should be able to be matched up to a weapon the grandson may have had or clear him. You're telling me the grandson likely didn't even have a weapon in his hands. He was just along with Grandpa. Wow, that's quite the coincidence. Is it not, Shea McAllister, for Crystal Rogers to go missing? And then just shortly after that, her father, who is leading the charge in finding her, ends up dead in an unsolved shooting out in the middle

of the woods. And all this is around Bardstown. Shay? Yes. And I'll tell you what his wife and Crystal's mom told me hours after he was killed. She sent me a text that said, Shay, this was no accident. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. I think the fact that Ellis was the newest police member, I think he might have unintentionally been making his fellow officers look a little bad. Maybe it was a Serpico thing, you know, where he was starting to realize that some of his fellow officers might not have been on the up and narrow,

and maybe they saw him as a potential threat. But I think there's more evidence to support that than to support that it was just a bunch of, you know, dropout junkies, you know, who pulled the trigger. The fact that it was an a bunch of you know dropout junkies you know who pulled the trigger the fact that it was some an experienced sharpshooter who had to have pulled it off and i mean that's not my opinion that was the conclusion that the state investigators reached the kentucky state police in their first investigation i've heard crazier stories that it was a mexican hitman who flew up special the day before specifically to take out Ellis.

And I think that that's a little more far-fetched. Could it be that maybe the cops in my town aren't trustworthy? You know, that's stuff that people should consider. Do you ever fear for your safety? I would think anyone does. And these are scary times we live in. The people who are supposed to be answering these questions aren't.

The people who are supposed to be asking these questions within the community aren't. So somebody has to. And I want to thank that me and my meager resources, if I get wiped out, if I end up a body in a field or something, then there will be someone else who will continue. You know, there will be someone else to do it because truth, justice in the American way.

It's that's what everyone's supposed to be living for. You know, what is happening in the small town of Bardstown, Kentucky? Well, I know two people trying to get to the bottom of it. That's on the Bardstown podcast. It's Shane McAllister, investigative reporter with WHAS in Louisville, and Jessica Knoll, investigative journalist and podcast producer with Vault Studios. You were just hearing Richard Cardwell, a, quote, citizen journalist, concerned that he may end up dead in a field. You know, that's getting very, very serious, Jessica Knoll, when people are becoming afraid to ask questions with a string of unsolved murders in such a small town.

Jessica, what are people that live there in Bardstown saying? Are they not concerned about all the unsolved murders? You'll hear this in the podcast with some of the folks we talked to. There's both this anger, but also a fear. And the fear is palpable there. Not necessarily a fear that they're going to get killed, but a fear in that if whoever's doing this, people, person, that they're getting away with it. And what else does that mean for their town? And in a town where literally everyone knows everyone, everyone has a connection, it's scary for them to think that they have a killer or killers living among them.

I'm thinking this whole thing through. How many murders, Shea McAllister, are you investigating on your Bardstown podcast? We are investigating four different cases, but five victims as our main stories. But we do talk to a few others who have had family members murdered that don't have those cases answered. In Bardstown? Yes, in Bardstown. Good gravy. I mean, that ups the body count.

You know, I want to circle back on the teacher, an elementary special ed teacher, and her daughter is in high school. I know that the mom didn't show up to work, the daughter didn't show up to school, but we never completed that thought. What happened to those two? To you, Jessica Knoll. So family starts to get concerned because they don't show up and a family member goes out to their house to check on them and what they find is a grisly scene um they had been uh their throats had been slashed the daughter had had um her head was beaten severely um and a lot of reports have said that a lot of the violence seemed to be geared towards the daughter, Samantha, 16-year-old daughter. Just brutal, a brutal attack. And from what we know in talking to people, these are pillars of the community.

They were volunteers. They, you know, went to church. She was an honor student. She was getting ready to go to prom. There was no one, according to investigators that they can look at and say, this is who did it, um, based on who they were. Uh, and, and, and I shouldn't say they don't know who did it because I don't know if they know or not but there is there's no seedy character in these people there's nothing that would

make them a target they were just really really good people that no one had a bad thing to say about we are talking about the Bardstown murders and at that. We are talking about the Bardstown murders. And at that moment, we were talking about the brutal murder of a teacher and her teen daughter.

This tiny Kentucky town has gone from the most beautiful small town in America to a place where the residents feel they've got to barricade their doors at night. Now, apparently the most brutal killing of them all was the savage beating of a 16-year-old high school student, Samantha Netherland. Her mother, a special ed teacher, Kathy, was shot, and both their throats were slashed. Now, why would you kill two unarmed women, a teacher and her daughter?

You've got Jason Ellis, Officer of the Year, ambushed on an exit ramp. You've got Crystal Rogers, a mother of five, presumed dead, vanishing without a trace. You have Tommy Ballard, gunned down after he was seemingly on the trail as to the killer of his daughter, Crystal Rogers. How is it all connected or is it? A small town is Jackie here in the studio says it's almost like a horror movie where the murders just keep happening and they're never resolved. As a matter of fact, Shay McAllister, I just heard one of you, either you or Jessica, state that as you investigated these five murders, you came upon other people whose family members, relatives, friends had been murdered, and those cases are also unsolved. Is that correct? Yes, that's correct. And it's a

common threat you can see as you talk to people in this town. If their own loved one has not been killed, then they know someone who has. And that's pretty remarkable in a town of 11,000. Now, five years later, the family of this Nelson County mom and her daughter are still seeking justice. A 48-year-old mother, Kathy Netherland, her daughter, just 16 years old, Samantha Netherland, murdered in their own home. It's very hard for me to imagine with a beating death, there were no forensics with the throat slashed, the shootings. I mean, it's just very, very difficult to imagine. In none of these cases do we have forensics that can lead to the killer. I and so many people are looking for answers, along with Jessica Knoll, investigative journalist, podcast producer, Shea McAllister, investigative reporter, WHAS in Louisville,

and you can join the investigation at bardstownpodcast.com. Tip line 502-348-HEAT. H-E-A-T. That's 502-348-432. Thank you for being with me. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.