Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - FLOODGATES OPEN: CLANCY CHATROOM MOM CALLS SON, 2, “ANTICHRIST,” KILLS HIM?

Episode Date: September 10, 2026

Following a deadlocked jury and a declared mistrial in the high-profile trial of Lindsay Clancy, Nancy Grace and her expert panel dive into the fiery fallout surrounding the case. Clancy faced murder charges after strangling her three young children, Cora, Dawson, and Callan, with elastic exercise cords inside their home before attempting suicide. While Clancy's defense argued she was suffering from severe postpartum psychosis and command hallucinations, prosecutors presented detailed evidence of premeditation, including timed route searches and orchestrated errands to keep her husband away. Nancy Grace and her panel analyze the controversial trial aftermath, including defense attorney Kevin Reddington’s public attacks on a single holdout juror, his call for a presidential pardon, and the Commonwealth's anticipated push for a retrial.  A shocking copycat case in Frankfort, Illinois, has also sparked fear of a dangerous ripple effect from the trial's coverage. 40-year-old Corie Walsh, who was heavily active in online Clancy chat rooms, allegedly hanged her two-year-old son, Barrett, while similarly claiming a sudden "psychotic break". Psychoanalyst Dr. Bethany Marshall, forensic investigator Joseph Scott Morgan, and defense attorney Mark Astor join Nancy to debate the weaponization of mental health claims in criminal trials, examine disturbing social media trends surrounding postpartum intrusive thoughts, and break down the grim forensic realities connecting both tragic cases. Joining Nancy Grace today: Mark Astor - (Boca Raton, FL) Criminal Defense Attorney at Astor Simovitch Law. Host of the podcast 'The Journey by Mark Astor,' Website:  Dr. Bethany Marshall - (Beverly Hills, CA) Psychoanalyst. See her in hit shows "Paris in Love" on Peacock and "The Valley, Persian Style" on Bravo.  You can also catch her on Netflix and Hulu as well. Host of new podcast, "On The Couch with Dr. Bethany Marshall," Instagram, Facebook, & TikTok: @DrBethanyMarshall, Twitter: @DrBethanyLive Joseph Scott Morgan - (AL) Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", YouTube Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan", @JoScottForensic,  Shannon Hill - (NYC) Host, Shannon Hill News on Instagram, Tiktok and YouTube Dave Mack - (AL) Investigative Reporter, 'Crime Stories'See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-heart podcast. Guaranteed human. There's no shortcut for saving time, but saving money is simple. Just combine your car and home insurance with Bel Air Direct and save. Get a quote at bellair direct.com. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Tonight, the floodgates are open. A Clancy chat room mom.

after being heavily invested in the Lindsay Clancy trial in and out of Clancy chat rooms day and night, day and night, suddenly calls her little boy Barrett, just two years old, the Antichrist and hangs him dead. Now claiming that she, too, like Lindsay Clancy, was in a psychotic break. Well, here we go. Good evening.

I'm Nancy Grasie. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. So-called loving mom, Lindsey Clancy. Twice, they've sent back notes to the judge saying, we're deadlocked. We cannot come up with a verdict for you. We need a verdict.

There's no new evidence. Okay? There's no new defense. You've heard everything. At this point, I'm going to declare that the jury is deadlocked, and I'm going to declare a mistrial. You had 11 jurors that didn't necessarily believe your case. What do you say? Those people felt that the whole prosecution was insensitive.

Was what? Insensitive. Insensitive. Insensitive is killing three children. Insensitive is ignoring those facts. We have an obligation to stand up for those people and seek justice and make sure the defendant gets justice and make sure they get justice. So if people can't understand that, I don't know how I can answer that question. Ms. Trial.

And not only that, the defense attorney, Reddington, attacks The holdout juror. They know that they were robbed by one man for whatever his agenda was, who stole seven weeks of the life of these other jurors that was so attentive, so beautiful, so it wonderful, and listened to this evidence. And you could see how defeated they were sitting there. And I got a funny feeling that they would have gone on for another week if they had to. From our friends at East Idaho News and WBZ, the floodgates now open.

To Dave Matt, Crime Stories investigative reporter, now we have two-year-old Barrett hung in the home, I believe cut down by a neighbor who tried to attempt life-saving measures, and mom upstairs in the tub with superficial cuts on her legs and arms. What happened? And was this mom, 40-year-old Corey Walsh, who is now saying I was not guilty by reason of insanity. I had a psychotic break. Is it true? She was, quote, heavily invested in the outcome of the Lindsay Clancy, triple murder trial.

You know, Nancy, this woman was not just heavily invested in the trial of Lindsay Clancy. She was online constantly on message boards commenting about the Lindsay. Clancy trial. Her son, you mentioned a neighbor had to come in and cut the child down from a basement room where Barrett was allegedly found hanging this little two-year-old and is cut down by a 17-year-old neighbor tries to get help. Life-saving measures are attempted, but sadly, the two-year-old does not survive. Meanwhile, mom, Kowalsh, is upstairs in the bathtub. And we're talking superficial wounds to the wrists and thighs. That's it. This goes down in a residential area of Frankfurt, Illinois, extremely low crime rate. Okay, Dr. Bethany Marshall, I've got so much to cover with Lindsay

Clancy, including her lawyer attacking the holdout juror. His name ever leaks, woe unto him. That is not what our system is about and just this morning he stands by his attacks on the juror and begs Trump for a pardon. Okay, before I get into all of that, Dr. Bethany Marshall with us, for now psychoanalyst, you can see her on Bravo, on Hulu, on Peacock, you can find her at at Dr. Bethanymarshal.com, hit podcast on the couch with Dr. Bethany. Bethany, copycat, you predicted this was going to happen and it wasn't even 72 hours. after the Ms. Trial, and it did. And that's the one we know about. You know, Nancy, you're right. That's the one we know about. And what I would be interested in with

this woman in terms of a forensic evaluation was what was the nature of her preoccupation with the Clancy trial? What were all those messages she was putting on out online? She was communicating with multiple people through multiple social media channels. And was she pro Lindsay Clancy? Was she against Lindsay Clancy? Did she feel Lindsay Clancy was guilty? Also, what was her relationship with the two-year-old? His name was Bear. That was her nickname for him. And how did she treat this little boy? Did she have empathy for him? Was she bonded with him? Hold on. Dr. Bethany, I think I know the nature of Corey Walsh's relationship with her two-year-old son. bear it because she called him the Antichrist and the devil. And she is admitting that she hung him

in a, quote, psychotic break. Now, how did she know how to say I was in a psychotic break? Of course, she is not guilty until proven innocent, but I'd like to just point out, you know, hold on, Dr. Bethany. Mark Astor is with us, joining us out of Boca Raton, a veteran. criminal defense attorney Astor Simovic law firm and Star of Hit podcast, The Journey by Mark Astor. If this is not a similar transaction, I don't know what is.

A similar transaction in that two moms, white females, roughly same age, young children, kills a son in the home, then has superficial cuts on her wrist and in

Corey Walsh's case on her legs as too as well. I guess she's going to tell us she was trying to slice her femoral artery. That said, mom at the home after failed suicide attempt, heavily invested in the Lindsay Clancy case, obsessed with it, living in Clancy chat rooms, and now Barrett is dead. Nancy, I agree with you. I think there's definitely some similarities, but this is not the first mother who has killed a child or killed children. There's a whole history of mothers killing their children. I think what is similar is the idea that this is, quote, caused by a psychotic episode. And also, now we're going to use postpartum depression as part of the insanity defense. And I think this is not going to be the last case where we see a mother who killed

a child or children. And it's not going to be the last case now where we see somebody who claims insanity because of some type of postpartum depression. That's the similarity. But but we are going to a new world where behavioral health issues are now sort of becoming part and parcel of criminal defense work. So we'll have to see what happens with this case. But I understand where you're coming from. And her obsession with obviously the Lindsay Clancy case is concerning. But maybe that goes to her state of mind too. You don't seem to because you're really calm.

You're just casually predicting that, well, it's not the first and it won't be the last. I'm like cold dead body. Dr. Bethany, the comparisons are overwhelming. and you predicted it that there would be many copycat cases after the Lindsay Clancy case if there was an NGBRI. And here you go. The similarities overwhelming superficial cuts on the wrist and the femoral artery. Please stop.

I'm thinking might have happened and what we may see more of are murder-suicide cases where the mother is wanting to get rid of the child because, the child is sort of disadvantageous to her in some way. Maybe she's having an affair, has another lover. There is no suicide. But there was no suicide. Well, what I was going to say. Nancy Clancy is back playing dominoes at Tewksbury mental facility.

And this mom is getting three hots and a cot also at a mental facility claiming psychotic break. Wait, now if this is the antichrist and this is the devil, then who told her to kill him? the other devil well you know nancy people malinger psychiatric illnesses all the time to justify their crimes i was asleep i was in a psychotic state i was in a fugue i woke up in the middle of the night and i was sleepwalking and i'm always you know a little suspicious with when an attorney comes up with the idea like a brief psychotic episode but it hasn't come from any kind of professional you're seeing the home where Lindsay Clancy reportedly tried to kill herself. There is blood. There you see, along the outer window still suggesting she lowered herself down and then did a much shorter jump.

She is paralyzed. That is true. Shannon Hill joining us. Star of Shannon Hill News in the courtroom during the Clancy case. I'd like you to hear what Kevin in addition to attacking the holdout juror, what Kevin Redington, the defense attorney, I'm really surprised he was not held in contempt by the judge. That said, what he blurted out on GMA just a few hours ago. You said you crushed the prosecution in court, but the final decision was a mistrial. That's provido. That's after the fact.

And, you know, the emotions run high and we just finished a six, seven-week trial. But you regret saying it? No, I don't regret saying it at all. I think the defense was very strong. I'd like to say that perhaps Donald Trump, who felt compelled to speak out about this case, may very well, Mr. President, I would hope that you would consider this young lady,

the type of person she is, what she's been through, and consider a pardon. That from our friends at GMA and Shannon Hill, while he's with GMA, he doubles down on his attack on the juror. Well, was it a mistake to actually reveal the gender of the juror? I know during the course of the SJC argument, I believe that the gender of the individual was revealed,

and then it just followed through after that. And also, Shannon, he is standing by his attack on the holdout juror. Listen. Gone on for another week if they had to. So I hope that guy can. can sleep well at least. They know that they were robbed by one man for whatever his agenda was who stole seven weeks of the life of these other jurors that was so attentive, so beautiful, so it wonderful,

and listened to this evidence. And you could see how defeated they were sitting there. And I got a funny feeling that they would have gone on for another week if they had. a week if they had. So I hope that guy can sleep well at least. That from my friends at East Idaho News and WBZ, if he does not need to be held in contempt, I've never seen a lawyer that deserved it. There's no shortcut for saving time, but saving money is simple. Just combine your car and home insurance with Bel Air Direct and save. Get a quote at bellair direct.com.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Shannon Hill, what's going on? Nancy, in the courtroom, Attorney Kevin Redington revealed that the one juror that was standing out on this not guilty plea was a male. And typically, we don't hear the identity of the juror. We don't hear anything about the jury members because it's supposed to be concealed. So he did reveal that and people are now kind of talking about how that should be. have been information that was privy to the public. He's also referring to saying that he crushed

the prosecution as courtroom bravado. As we know, Attorney Kevin Reddington will act fast on all of this. He filed a motion when it was leading up to a mistrial and the judge declared a mistrial. Attorney Kevin Reddington fought to file a motion and did it within an hour. So what we do know is that Attorney Kevin Reddington will act fast for his client. There is a hearing on September 29th, that will determine where this case will continue. Straight out to Joseph Scott Morgan joining us, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, and he is a star of a YouTube hit Bodybags with Joseph Scott Morgan.

Joe Scott, thank you for being with us. I want to address, which is very disturbing on many, many levels. Immediately following the deadlock and Reddington's attack, on the holdout gerard. Immediately after that, this mom, Corey Walsh, 40 years old, three children, is in chat rooms talking about the Lindsay Clancy case, pro-Lensie Clancy,

obviously identifying with a mom who kills her three children. She's in those chat rooms, according to reports, right up until she, by her, own admission hangs her two-year-old son, Barrett. Also similar to the deaths of Clancy's three children, Dawson, Cora, and Callum. Explain what this two-year-old child endured. Yeah, absolutely. I'll let you say her name. I'm not saying it. I'll say his. Barrett, also went by Bear. This is what they saw. So when the finder went into that basement area where that child is down there, away from the mother, he's suspended from the rafter.

She used some kind of ligature. We're not really sure yet. But what I do know is that Nancy, his feet, his little feet were suspended up off of the floor. So this is not what we refer to as kind of a passive hanging where an individual kind of slumps down into a ligature. He's literally suspended up in his air with his feet not touching the floor. He cannot support himself in any way to kind of wiggle out of this. And I would imagine his hands were probably thrown up at some point in time. He's trying to defeat this ligature that is wrapped around his neck.

And here's another clue that I have noticed is that when Bear was taken to the emergency room and they were trying to do heroic measures on him there, the notes and the courts, and the court documents that were released actually stated that the findings at the emergency room or at the hospital were consistent with what the finder found. That is the teenager that came over, and you know what those were? I can tell you right now. This child probably had what's referred to as a ligature furrow, which would have run deep into the neck. It would have traveled upward behind the ears, okay? That's, and it comes to an apex on the back. This is what we're we refer to as tinting feature, T-E-N-T-I-N-G, not like tent on a car, but like a pup tent.

So he's being suspended by this, and this is digging into his neck the entire time he is fighting for his life. Let me tell you what else happened. More than likely, when they do the examination on this precious little angel, they're going to find patiquia, patiki in his eyes, actually, maybe even in his mouth, maybe on the surface of his lungs, because he is fighting for his life. for breath. All the while, she is up in a bathtub with a knife and, I don't know, crying for help. I have no idea what the nature of this is. All I know is superficial injuries to her, but fatal

injuries to this baby down in the basement. You know, Dr. Bethany Marshall hearing Joe Scott Morgan describing what happened to bear. And again, the mother in that case, Corey Walsh, admits she killed, hung, bear, just two years old, but said she was in a psychotic break at the time. She was treated at a local hospital for three days, then transferred to the Will County adult detention facility where she is being held without bond. In both cases, Clancy and Corey Walt, she is innocent until proven guilty, the husband was gone and Clancy carefully orchestrated to have the husband gone on an errand, superficial cuts to the wrist, the murder in the home of the child, psychotic break claimed, and curious, or let me rephrase, probative. This mom, Corey Walsh,

was in chat rooms defending and talking about Clancy right up until the time that she hangs her son. That has to mean something, Dr. Bethany. It does mean something. First of all, she's well enough to care for four children, right? So, but then later she says she's psychotic. That doesn't go together. She's organized enough to get onto all these chat rooms and interact with people. That does not suggest psychosis to me. What we really need to know is what was her relationship with this little boy bear. And I have mothers like this in my practice. sometimes they come in and they're just not bonded with their kids. They hate their kids.

They have sadistic thoughts towards the kids. They resent the needs of the child. And often what we see in abusive families, and I don't know what will come out in this case, is the parent has a hateful preoccupation with one child, but loves the others. You know, it's like there's a split between all good and all bad. Also, I'd want to know,

did she have some kind of an ongoing argument with the little boy's father? because often with when mothers commit homicide with their children, what we really see the primary motivation is that they're trying to get back at another spouse after an argument. So we have to look at that as well. And then that she was so pro-Lindsay Clancy. And Nancy also, she did it in such a cruel way. More will come out, as Joseph Scott Morgan said.

But did she torture him before she hung him? Did she try to asphyxate him first so he wouldn't suffer? I mean, how did she want this child to die? And if you're psychotic, it's kind of hard to be that sophisticated to hang a child from a rafter. I mean, you have to be pretty organized psychologically. So this is an organized crime, not a disorganized one, which is what we would see with psychosis. To Shannon Hill joining us, starring a star of Shannon Hill News on Insta, Shana, the viral videos that are populating online after the Clancy mistrial is, it's very upsetting.

Nancy, what we are seeing is a trending video going viral of women reenacting intrusive thoughts that they may have had during postpartum. So they are taking these baby dolls and tossing them down the stairs or knocking these baby dolls heads into the wall as some sort of, indicative of what's been being discussed online with postpartum depression and intrusive thoughts. I think what we're seeing is this sort of insensitivity to your child. You have the time to prop up a camera and film yourself, dropping a baby doll to somehow be a part of the conversation, but maybe also wanting to get engagement and virality online. It's quite confusing, if I'm honest, to watch this as a mother and as somebody who comments on topics. Especially, Shannon, in light of the first that we know of, copycat murder by a

Lindsay Clancy obsessed mother in Frankfurt, Illinois. What about it, Joe Scott Morgan? Yeah, I think the similarities between these two mothers is the fact that they chose means in order to take the lives of their own children that are very similar. And what I'm talking about is asphyxial, deaths. The reason that this is very similar is that there is a line that runs through a six-year-old deaths that makes them different than any other kind of death out there that we investigate because it's very, very personal, Nancy. We're talking about the use of either a ligature or we're talking about, say, for instance, if an adult puts their hands around the neck of a child, this is a way where you can see the life literally come out of the individual

that you are choking to death. You'll see their face turned, turn colors, you'll see their eyes begin to swell, you'll see the struggle that they're going through, and back to this child in the basement as well. You know, there's a mechanical part to this where this child literally, we've heard the term over the years strung up

as it applies to hanging. The mechanical part of this is bearing witness to this because this child literally, their feet would have been dangling in the air, struggling for this. There's a real element of sadism here, Nancy. What is the next move? Listen. I do know that one of the questions that are out here right now regarding retrials, I will let you know that there'll be no decisions made today regarding that.

I'm going to be meeting with our team, and we will address this case further at the appropriate time in the context of an official court proceeding. So you're not getting an answer on that question today. From East Idaho News and WVZ. There's no shortcut for saving time, but saving money is simple. Just combine your car and home insurance with Bel Air Direct and save. Get a quote at fellairDirect.com. Crime stories with Nancy Grace.

Straight out to veteran trial lawyer joining us, Mark Astor. Of course there's going to be a retrial. There is no way that the state is going to drop this case. If they believe that firmly that this is a triple homicide and that Lindsay Clancy formulated a plan which shows intent and premeditation, then they've got to go forward. It would be derelict of their duty not to

if they truly believe that. I agree with you, Nancy. I think they're going to retry the case. I think the big problem that they had was establishing or even presenting any evidence of premeditation. was their theory of the case. We didn't hear a motive until Ms. Sprague, the prosecutor, was sort of 40 minutes into her closing argument and said,

this was a mother that just snapped. Well, that may be the case, but where's the evidence to support that? Now, I know you're in your glitzy offices down there in Boca Raton at the Astor-Simovich Law Firm, but have you been under Iraq in a cave on the other side of the world with no cable? because apparently the answer is yes. No evidence of planning? I think I just burst a blood vessel.

Dave Mack, what's the evidence of planning that was brought on to the jury? It started with the whole plan of getting her husband out of the house and sending him to the furthest restaurant away to pick up dinner, then planning other stops so he would be gone even longer. then when he calls during the middle of all of that, she calmly answers his questions about what medicine to pick up to the kids. So, yeah, there was plenty of planning that kept her husband away

so she could carry out her planned murder of her children, alleged murder. Correct me if I'm wrong, Shannon Hill, but didn't Lindsay Clancy do an Apple map search to figure out just how long she had to murder the children? just how long she could get rid of her husband. And he actually called her. He was gone less than an hour. He called her in the middle of it. She picks up the phone and seems normal,

tiny bit distracted, but normal. Correct, Nancy. She did a Google search to see the distance of, from their home to the 3B restaurant and then to CBS. And that gave her a time frame. Also, prior to Patrick leaving, she had called the CVS to confirm whether or not they had a pedialax and didn't let Patrick know to pick that up until he was almost out the door to kind of make it a sort of last minute errand for him to run to add some time to that period. So there was definite, I would say, evidence of premeditation and planning this out. Yeah, you're right, Shannon.

and leading up to it, Dr. Bethany Marshall, to further enlightened Mount Mark Astor. She had gone to Cora's pediatrician that morning, and all the nurses saw her, and she was completely coherent and interacted with them. She then went playing in the park with the children and took pictures and videos of them and sent to her husband and her mother-in-law,

comes home and starts planning around 4 p.m. even calling the CVS to make sure they had it in stocks or her husband would not bother her by calling and saying something like, hey, they don't have it. What was it? Would this substitute do? Would that substitute do? Should I go to Walgreens? Since CVS doesn't have it. Nothing like that. Everything was accounted for. Yes, it was. It was methodical, meticulous, Nancy. That really does show a lot of planning. But wait, let's think about what happened after, after she went to the hospital. That was, when she first started using the word command hallucination and that other people around her started using that word. And later it was reported that she was well liked at the psychiatric

facility. So planning doesn't just happen before a homicide in really, really sophisticated cases. We see the person planning for what they're going to do and say after the homicides, right? So being likable, being connected, being engaged, organizing herself so quickly that she asked for one of the psychiatrist's phone so she could call her husband. So it's pre and post that I think paints a very important clinical picture for me. Hey, before I'm going to recap with Mark Astor, I had another similarity that popped to mind as you were speaking, Dr. Bethany Marshall. in the previous case, Lindsay Clancy, she looked up, can you treat a sociopath? Did she think one of her children was a sociopath? Because in this case, Corey Walsh from Frankfurt, Illinois, called her two-year-old child

Barrett, aka Bear, called him the Antichrist and the Devil. See, to me that that speaks to a rationalization that the person is, trying to come to. So, you know, can you treat a sociopath? Mothers who are not bonded to their children or who are hateful to their children, as we've seen in those TikTok videos with the baby dolls, usually they experience their children as being greedy, hateful, extracting things from them, but often that the children have no conscience and they fail to take it into account that when children are little, they want food, they want to be taken places. But to abusive mother, that's seen as sociopathic, as if the child is callously possessing the mother for its own needs.

And that's why in abusive cases, we also see parents, you know, locking the refrigerator because they think their children are so greedy they're going to come out and, you know, eat food in the middle of the night that the child doesn't deserve. So it paints a whole picture of these parents seeing the child as unconditionally bad. to Mark Astor, partner at Astor Simovich in Boca Raton and Star of the Journey by Mark Astor. I believe you said something about there's no evidence of premeditation. Well, I think what I said, Nancy, was there's no evidence of motive. I mean, that's the problem.

If you're going to prosecute somebody for premeditated first-trial murder, you better have a motive. I mean, I understand what Dr. Bethany is saying, and maybe the prosecutor needs to call her as a witness because I didn't see any evidence in the trial that would have really agree with what Dr. Bethany said. I think they spent most of their time with the experts trying to argue about what Dr. Resnick said. And that's my point. I mean, if what Dr. Bethany said is correct, and I'm not disagreeing with her, then we need to have that evidence because I think that's why the Commonwealth had such a very difficult time of overcoming their burden. And let's not forget in Massachusetts, the burden is entirely.

on the state. It's not an affirmative defense. It's the state's responsibility to sort of negate the insanity to defense. And I think that's why they had a problem doing that. And that's why we had a hung jury. Mark Astor, if you'd like me to give you a playback of what you actually said, I can do that. You stated there was no premeditation shown at trial and no motive. You are a veteran, lawyer. You know the state does not have to prove motive, period. And there's plenty of evidence Supreme Meditation. That said, I don't see any world, Mark Astor, in which there is a plea. Do you? In the real world, do I think they're going to negotiate something? No, because I think Mr. Reddington is adamant that his client is not going to spend the rest of her life in prison.

And for what it's worth, Nancy, I think that she probably should. Do I think she will? I mean, probably not. And let's not forget all of this sort of showboating is really done to preserve the record for appeal. I mean, we had the Andrea. Yates case where she was convicted, it got reversed, and she ended up being found not guilty by a reason of insanity, and she's been sent to a mental institution. So there is some precedent for all of the things that are going on in this case. And that's what I think the goal is here, to potentially preserve this case for an appeal. That's the only one you can think of, Andrea Yates. That's really going way back in time to get assimilar. I'd like to point out Deanna Lainey, Rock Mom,

who bludgeoned her children with rocks killed two, left one permanently brain damaged. She went to a mental facility and got out and is walking free amongst us in eight short years. Joe Scott Morgan reality check. What happened to Cora, Dawson, and Callum? What did they experience before they were killed? Nancy, here's the reality. These defenseless children actually had these ligatured, are wrapped around their neck, Nancy.

And the life was literally strangled out of them with these elastic cords. And you know, Nancy, one of the things that's quite striking about the nature of this is the fact that what she chose to use as a ligature in this case is not a static thing. It's not like she took a piece of wire or a piece of baling rope or any kind of other cord. she actually had elasticity with these things. So she would have had to have adjusted, then readjusted, and then readjusted, because it doesn't work the same as, say, if you had something that had a bit more tension to it, that required much less strength on her part to do it.

So there would have been this constant readjustment. That's one of the reasons that, you know, I used the term sadistic a few moments ago, thinking about the elasticity of these cords and how long it would have taken. This would have taken much longer. Say, for instance, if she had just merely used her hands or used some other item other than an elastic cord, Nancy. If you know or think you know anything regarding the hanging death of two-year-old Barrett Walsh, Dial Frankfurt PD 815-469-9-4-34-4. Repeat, 815-469-9-44-3434.

And let us remind you that a retrial of Lindsay Clancy is anticipated, which means the state is starting over, rebuilding its case. If you know or think you know anything regarding the murders of Cora, Dawson, and Cowan, please dial 7-8-1-934-56-56. Or if you know someone suffering from suicidal ideation, dial very simply 9888. Grace, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an I-Heart podcast.

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