Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - FREE Wendy Williams! Judge's "Threats" After Star's Boozy Lunch

Episode Date: March 19, 2025

Wendy Williams says she feels like she is in prison as she fights to end her court-appointed guardianship. Almost on cue, she may have proven her point when Coterie, the assisted living facility where she resides on the fifth floor, called police, claiming her niece, Alex Finnie, had kidnapped her. According to the report Coterie filed with the NYPD, Finnie evaded staff and took Williams out to eat at an Italian restaurant. After police were called, Williams and Finnie cited the incident as an example of how restrictive the guardianship has allegedly become. Speaking to paparazzi outside Coterie, Finnie noted that Williams’ guardian, Sabrina Morrissey, claims Williams can come and go freely and that no family visits are blocked. Finnie questioned that statement, pointing out that staff escorted Williams to the elevator, yet Coterie still called police. Williams told the interviewer, “Clearly, they are lying to me when they say I can go out and do what I want to do.” Williams claims she can only leave the facility’s fifth-floor memory unit with permission and an attendant to unlock the elevator. This week, a judge approved an emergency petition filed by Williams’ attorney to move her from what she calls a “luxury prison” to a less restrictive environment. Judge Lisa Sokoloff approved the request, and Williams will relocate to a private condo where she will have more freedom to come and go and receive visitors. Joining Nancy Grace today: Elizabeth J. McInturff  - Attorney Specializing in Guardianship Issues / Partner at Selzer Gurvitch; LinkedIn @elizabethmcinturff, Facebook @elizabeth.mcinturff.12  Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst, Author: "Deal Breaker,”  and featured in hit show: "Paris in Love" on Peacock; Instagram & TikTok: drbethanymarshall, Twitter: @DrBethanyLive Ashley Wardlow  -  Private Investigator and Chief Operations Officers at Nathans Investigations; IG: @miamiprivateinvestigators, FB: nathansinvestigations Dr. Kendall Crowns -  Chief Medical Examiner Tarrant County (Ft Worth), NEW Podcast --- launching on April 7th, Lecturer: Burnett School of Medicine at TCU (Texas Christian University) Jessica Finn - Senior Investigative Reporter at The U.S. Sun; jessicafinnnyc (Twitter/ IG) @jessicafinn.bsky.social  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Free Wendy Williams. This after a judge's threats on Wendy. Who does she think she is threatening Wendy Williams after Wendy's boozy lunch out? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Wendy Williams celebrates a victory in her controversial guardianship battle

as a judge reportedly allows the ex-talk show host queen to move from a senior living facility. Living facility, my real name is more like a prison. Wendy had stated over and over she's surrounded by 70, 80 and 90 year olds. No offense, but that is not Wendy Williams style. And I don't like the way this judge is talking down to Wendy Williams. Uh-uh. N-O. You know, a little power is a dangerous thing, Judge. Listen to this. Photographers frequently crowd below Wendy Williams' window at Coterie Hudson Yards, where the 60-year-old resides in the memory care unit. One such photographer watches as Williams throws a scrap of paper from her window. Scribbled on the note, help Wendy. The paparazzi calls for a welfare check.

And hours later, NYPD officers escort Williams out of the facility into a waiting ambulance. Where I live at this memory unit on this floor, you know, I just needed a breath of fresh air. You know what I'm saying? I needed to see the doctors. So that's why I went to the hospital. That's from our friends at ABC. I am on Wendy's side here. Why is it if she's got a guardian watching out for her, that she has to send a note, throw it out her window and the paparazzi get it and they get her out with police escort. That doesn't sound right to me.

Does it sound right to you that she has to throw a help me note out a window? Where's the conservator? Why is Wendy been in lockdown for all this time? Listen, Wendy Williams says she feels like she's in prison as she continues her fight to end her court-appointed guardianship. As if almost on cue, Williams may have proved her point

when the assisted living facility where she resides on the fifth floor, Coterie, calls police claiming the 60-year-old TV host has been kidnapped by her niece, Alex Finney. The report Coterie filed with the NYPD claims Finney evaded staff by taking her Aunt Wendy out of the building to eat in an Italian restaurant. Uh uh uh. N.O. Joining me in all star panel. who was at the courthouse as Wendy is battling for her freedom and got some incredible exclusive shots. Let me see those shots that Jessica Finn got. There's no, Wendy is walking. She's talking.

She's smiling. She's flanked by friends, relatives. These are pictures from our friend joining us right now, Jessica Finn at the U.S. Sun, just taken as Wendy battles for her freedom. goes and takes her out to a simple lunch. And then the assisted care facility, i.e. lockdown, actually calls the police with a kidnap claim on the niece. Are you serious? It was a wild scene for sure. So basically what had happened is that Wendy was just released from the hospital after being evaluated. Her niece, Alex Finney, comes to pick her up to take her back to the living facility. But on their way back, they go to dinner. And apparently the living facility decided that it wasn't approved.

There was conflicting reports. Alex says that they knew that they were going out to dinner. The living facility allegedly said that this outing was not approved and at some point threatened to call the NYPD to file a kidnapping report. Joining me, Dr. Bethany Marshall, renowned psycho analyst joining us from the L.A. jurisdiction, author of Deal Breaker. You can see her now on Peacock and you can find her at DrBethanyMarshall.com. Dr. Bethany Marshall, it's my understanding that you agree with the judge who seemingly continues to threaten Wendy Williams like she's a petulant child. Nancy, people in cognitive decline notoriously do not realize it's happening to them. So let's hold that in the back of our minds.

Sokoloff is basing her decision on criteria, not personal opinion. Wendy Williams probably had cognitive testing, neuropsych testing, and the testing showed that she was a danger to self or others and that she had lacked ADLs, meaning activities of daily living. The judge is looking at that criteria. Okay. Question to you. Yes. Did you perform a test on Wendy Williams? Did you, Bethany Marshall, perform a cognitive test on Wendy Williams? I did not, but usually a baseline test is given initially so that we get a baseline on the patient. So you're just speculating, are you not? I am speculating, yes. Okay. So the fact that

she has recently passed a cognitive test, does that mean anything to you? Nancy, we don't know that. Are you just totally sucking up to a judge that is talking down to Wendy Williams like she's a five-year-old that grabbed a handful of jelly beans? Hey, Nancy, it's the family who said she's passed with flying colors. Hey, Bethany, what? The family, not the physician who administered the test. Have those test results been released? The physician can't speak to us, the media, have you ever heard of HIPAA? You think the judges, you think that the doctor's

going to go out on the steps of Mount Sinai, which I'm very familiar with. I had all my prenatal tests there, was going to have the children there until I suddenly gave birth in Atlanta, Mount Sinai. That's where she took the test. And what do you expect her doctor to go out and say, Hey, she passed everybody. Let me go out to special guests joining us. Elizabeth McInturff, attorney specializing in guardianship issues, a partner at Seltzer Gervich. Elizabeth, thank you for being with us. What can you tell me about this type of care facility where all the elevators are locked and you have to have a chaperone to take you down the elevator and you go to lunch with your niece and suddenly they accuse the niece of kidnapping, reportedly, and call police.

What about it, Elizabeth? It sounds like very typical precautions that happen in a memory care unit where a person who has cognitive decline or cognitive abilities need to have a more structured environment with more security measures, including, you know, preventing somebody from eloping or wandering out. I hear what you're saying, Elizabeth, and this is your specialty. However, if what we're being told is true, and I have no reason to think it's not true, if they had to unlock the elevator and chaperone her down the elevator to her niece, that is inconsistent with them calling police and threatening to file a kidnap allegation. That's a criminal complaint against the niece. They had to let her down to go meet the niece.

So why are they doing this just because Wendy Williams wants to have lunch? Let's learn a little bit more. Feels like you're screaming for help. Are you allowed to go out? No. In the last 30 days, I went out twice. This sounds more like a prison than independence. I want my rights back. I want my freedom back. TMZ presents Saving Wendy, now streaming on Tubi. That was our friend Harvey Levin at TMZ. They've got a new documentary on TMZ, Saving Wendy. You know,

when I listened to her speaking very coherently, I agree with Harvey. I think this is wrong. And she is having to launch a major legal battle. What? To go have lunch for Pete's sake and submitting herself not only to testing at Mount Sinai, which according to her and others, she passed. So why is she still going to be moved to a restrictive condo? I mean, did you hear where she's been at the care facility? No personal belongings or electronics. She cannot receive calls, cannot leave her room without a staff member unlocking the door. Visitors have to be pre-approved. In other words,

they want to give the appearance they want you to see before you get in to see your loved one. And to top it all off, I don't like the way this judge is talking down to Wendy Williams and basically threatening her, saying things like, and I quote, I've always contended that Williams be given the independence she can handle. I really judge since when were you a shrink? I question how well she has handled the independence she has been given. Really? What did Wendy do wrong? Have a plate of pasta? You don't like that judge? And she goes on to threaten Wendy, stating to the lawyer, tell your client if she wants a jury, she should refrain from trying to poison the jury pool. Ruh-roh. Sounds like somebody's impinging on Wendy Williams' freedom of speech.

Oh, there's that pesky little Bill of Rights judge. Um, who does this judge think she's talking to? Listen. After a successful trial run of The Wendy Williams Show, the talk show is broadcast internationally and garners 2.4 million daily viewers. Williams trades off with Ellen DeGeneres as the number one female daytime television host for years. The daily show runs for 12 years straight, while Williams starts her own reality TV production company with her manager and husband, Kevin Hunter. Oh, did I just hear husband, manager?

Wait, Jessica Finn, senior investigative reporter, U.S. Sun, who got those awesome photos of Wendy going to court. Jessica, they're at the courthouse when this goes down. Husband, you mean the guy that took all that money from the Wendy Williams show? Him, the one that was having a years long affair with what was a masseuse and then had a baby living, what, nine or 10 miles away from Wendy. I think he even had his name on her mailbox. That guy, that's who we're talking about. Yeah, they are actually still fighting it out in divorce court over money he claims he's owed as partly as executive producer for the Wendy Williams show. There was a stipulation in their divorce that he was going to get basically a severance package from Wendy. And then once Wendy was put into this guardianship and the bank took over her accounts,

Wells Fargo shut down her accounts, his payments stopped. So they're actually back fighting it in divorce court. And Kevin's been in part not only trying to get his severance payments to resume, he's also been really trying to get access to Wendy's financial records. And in part, I think what he hopes that's going to show is what is happening with her money since she's been placed in the guardianship. So while Kevin is on just a moment, didn't he, Jessica, give up any rights to get all up in her money when he cheated on her with that girl and had the baby? And Wendy's the one making all the money working. You know, I've been on her show several times. That woman worked like a mule and was surrounded by people, parasites, sucking all her money.

Every time I went, everybody around her was just kicked back, lounging, having a latte while she's out there working. Now, why would he get access to her money? Well, he was the executive producer for the show and he did a lot of work behind the scenes. Right, exactly. Absolutely was. And so in their divorce agreement. Don't you think he ended all that when he started having sex with a mistress? But in their divorce agreement, he did. There was an agreement for him to continue to get

severance money from from Wendy's estate. And so, well, yes, absolutely. I understand the idea that because he did have a baby with another woman that they you would you would think that they would stop but this was part of their divorce Jessica he did have a baby with another woman here you say Jessica fan they went to Walmart and brought home a baby that's not how it happened getting all that money and there he is sleeping with somebody else and has a baby. A thousand percent. That is exactly why they got divorced because of the baby. That is a thousand percent what happened. But they worked together. They worked together. So that is that is why he I believe that's why it's in their divorce agreement, because they did work together.

They built the brand together. I believe, Jessica Finn, that you have gone so far as to refer to her husband, the one that cheated and had the baby with the massage therapist, as an unsung hero. Yeah, this is not the public opinion that people would think of. But quite frankly, Kevin really kept the wheels on the track during Wendy's time on the show, he was the one that made sure that she was up and ready to tape and doing the right thing, despite the fact that she was very much involved in alcoholism at that point. And Wendy, from everything that we've learned, knew about Sharina. She knew about the other woman for many years before Kevin had a baby with Sharina. So she looked the other way. So while everybody was blindsided when Kevin had the baby, the public was blindsided when Sharina had the baby,

and Wendy did file for divorce based on that, she had known for years that Kevin had this woman on the side. And Kevin really, again, did keep the wheels going on the track. And once Kevin was out of the picture, it was really hard for Wendy to keep the show going without having a kind of firm hand and direction and keeping her grounded. And that's essentially what happened in season 13. Everything went to poop and she wasn't even able to film. She wasn't able to attend the taping. Well, let me be clear. The ex-husband has not been charged with any crime or any wrongdoing or any taking of her money that was not part

of a contract. Let's just be very clear about that. I'm just very curious also with all these people that, quote, were working with her. They didn't notice that she was getting sick or was she? In 2017, Williams passes out during a taping of the show and in the following years fills months of several seasons with guest host due to struggles with her health issues. Costume contest, we do it every year. It's always a lot of fun. Let's get started. Our first caress. From our friends at the Wendy Williams Show. I am not cognitively impaired, you know what I'm saying? No, but I feel like I am in prison. I'm in this place where the people are in their 90s

and their 80s. I have breakfast, lunch, and dinner right here on the bed, right? I window, I talk on the phone. They said you're cognitively impaired and you're incapacitated. Do I seem that way? No. You've been calling me five times a day for the last

two weeks. No, you don't seem that way you are hearing wendy uh on the phone at the breakfast club speaking to charlemagne the god okay bethany should i believe you are my lion ears me Me, because I'm a professional. And just because she sounds intact doesn't mean she is. I think she's a danger to self and others when she goes out. I think the reason Wendy is in lockdown is that she makes poor choices when she goes out. Prefrontal temporal dementia is a progressive disease. Okay. Temporal dementia is a progressive disease. OK, so it means that at the beginning, the person could look intact even when they're having cognitive decline. And the reason she's in an old folks home is those are the places that have memory care facilities.

You start when you're at the beginning of dementia and you graduate to the memory care unit. So it is an appropriate place for her. To Jessica Finn, joining me, a senior investigative reporter, US Sun, what exactly have been her diagnoses that we've been told anyway? Okay. So we know that she has, we know that she's been diagnosed with frontal temporal dementia. And that diagnosis came sometime in 2023. That was a diagnosis that was released by her guardian basically in response to the Lifetime documentary, Where is Wendy Williams? Now, before that, at the US Sun, we were able to confirm that in 2019, Wendy Williams was diagnosed with alcohol-related brain damage. And that diagnosis happened during

a rehab stay in Delray Beach, Florida in 2019. And that was a diagnosis that was given to her along with her husband at the time, Kevin Hunter, and her son, Kevin Hunter Jr. And the doctors warned her that if she continues to drink, she will continue to lose her memory. She will continue to lose her cognitive functioning. And as we know, Wendy continued to drink despite the diagnosis. Now, you know, here we are. We have this parental temporal dementia diagnosis, which is what Bruce Willis has. It's a degenerative disease. But Wendy seems very,

very fine these days. So it's very hard to really believe that the frontal temporal dementia diagnosis is actually correct and accurate. I've got so many questions right now, but Dr. Kendall Crowns joining me, a renowned medical examiner joining us out of Tarrant County. That's Fort Worth. Never a lack of business there. Esteemed lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine at TCU has performed literally thousands of examinations. By the way, you're seeing pictures from Jessica Finn joining us right now from the U.S. Sun, who was there camped out at the courthouse when Wendy went there to fight for her freedom. Dr. Kendall Crowns got a question regarding the frontal temporal

dementia and the alcohol related brain damage. All allegations. First of all, frontal temporal dementia. Do you get that from blows to the head? I was just thinking about Bruce Willis and all the stunts he performed. So you can get it from chronic brain trauma. But one of the main things is chronic alcoholism, which is alcohol is a neurotoxic or it causes, it's a poison to your brain. And long-term alcohol abuse can result- Are those two the same things? Hold on. I don't want to mix apples and oranges. Look, you're the renowned medical examiner. I'm just a trial lawyer. So can I address one and then address the other? Or are they one and the same? The frontal temporal dementia and the alcohol-related brain damage. Are they the same thing?

Frontal temporal dementia and alcohol-related brain damage can be associated with chronic alcohol abuse. And what you're talking about with... Okay, so she may have gotten that frontal temporal dementia from alcohol abuse. It's possible to get it from that, not just blows to the head? Okay. So blows to the head, you have to remember with blows to the head, it's a chronic, like you take multiple times, you're getting hit in the head over a long period of time. It isn't something you get from just a couple bumps to the head. It's a lot of repetitive blows to the head. So she could get that from alcohol? Yes. I would think it was more likely

than not her chronic alcohol abuse. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I've got a big problem, Dr. Kimmel-Cranston. I'm not saying you're wrong at all. What I'm saying is, okay, we see it with Britney Spears, right? She got out of her conservatorship and what does she do? She immediately strips down naked and starts twirling around on Instagram. So what? Okay, there she is. Keep that top on. All right. This is G-rated, Brittany. That's on Brittany's official Instagram page. Sometimes she comes out dancing and all you can see is like a little pasty flower over her nipples and private parts. That's her business. If she wants to twirl around naked on Insta instead of making millions and millions of dollars doing the same thing on a Vegas stage,

that's her business. If Wendy Williams wants to go out with her niece and have a bot, have, excuse me, have a glass of wine. Nobody said a bottle of wine, have a glass of wine. That's her business. And then this judge jumps up and says, um, I have always contended Williams will be given the independence she can handle. I question how well she has handled the independence she has been given. Really? Is that your business that she had a glass of wine with her niece? I don't know, Dr.

Kendall Crowns, about these diagnoses because it's hard for me to believe that she has advanced dementia when she carries on extensive conversations, spontaneous, not rehearsed, which you can try to read lines. But when you're having like a fluid conversation like we're having right now, you have to think with all cylinders. She conversed with Harvey Levin. That is super smart. That's not easy to do. She conversed with Charlemagne Thigod, also super smart. And what I observed, what I observed with my own eyes is that whenever I was around Wendy, she was smarter than anybody else in the room. And I don't like thinking they've got their hands in her pocket. How do I know she's got

dementia, Dr. Crowns? Well, I mean, you are just noticing one aspect of her personality she's able to carry on a conversation. You don't know what else is going on in her life that other people have noticed, say cognitive decline. One function of her brain may still be going on in her life that other people have noticed, say, cognitive decline. One function of her brain may still be going on. Hey, I'm not diagnosing her, and I have no problem with her being released to her own recognizance. Because, you know, my job is dependent on people doing dumb things and dying. So I'm okay with whatever is occurring. But I'm just giving you what is happening in her life.

I don't like when you're going with that, Crowns. She had those tests. She's been deemed she is not incapacitated. I passed with flying colors. I know. These are independent results. I would be very disappointed and I would be very concerned

if the judge has an issue with those tests. That's from our friends at Fox 5 in New York. And you're hearing Gina Monterosso claiming that Wendy had the test and she is not incapacitated. Williams shines in. I pass the flying colors. Rosanna Scotto, our friend in New York says, I know. And the medical advocate, Gina Monterosso goes on to say they are independent results. I would be very disappointed and very concerned if the judge has an issue with those tests. But, of course, the judge does.

A source says while Judge Sokoloff approved the talk show host's move to an unsecured floor, she was not convinced that Williams' tests at Lenox Hill proved that she is not incapacitated. Sokoloff reportedly said the tests only showed that Williams was coherent, cognitive, and alert. Williams will have to undergo a full cognitive workup and neurological examination. Jessica Phan, senior investigative reporter, U.S. Sun, who was camped out at the courthouse to greet Wendy Williams. So the judge is still not happy with what Lennox Hill said? Yeah, the judge basically said that this was not enough. This cognitive test was just to make sure she was coherent. The test included questions like who is the president? What is your birthday? What's your full name? These were really basic questions, and it was a 10-question test. And it didn't delve,

according to the judge, it didn't delve deep enough into Wendy's diagnoses to really give an accurate full picture of what Wendy is dealing with. In the coming weeks, it sounds like the judge is going to be having her do another more extensive, thorough psychological evaluation to determine exactly where Wendy's cognitive abilities are at this point and see how that's going to change the guardianship because it's going to change the whole nature of the guardianship. It could get her out of the guardianship if she does really well. She could end up in a less restrictive situation. She could end up in a less restrictive situation. She could end up with a different guardian. So this next test is really going to be the big moment for Wendy and to see how her guardianship is going to go moving forward. Joining me now is Ashley Wardlaw, PI, private

investigator, chief operation officer at Nathan's Investigation and has extensive experience investigating conservatorship issues. Ashley, thank you for being with us. This is very concerning to me, and I'll tell you why. If Britney Spears and Wendy Williams have to fight tooth and nail to get out from a conservatorship? What about the rest of us regular people? How can we get out of it if we're wrongfully put in a draconian or harsh conservatorship where you can't even get phone calls? Your room is locked. You have to throw notes out for a stranger to find to help you get out. Yes, Nancy, things like this happen quite often where PIs get hired by families or other concerned individuals who want us to investigate, you know, the well-being of this person that's

being held. In a case like this for Wendy in particular, I think a private investigator would need to think outside the box because this is very complex. Okay. So we don't only do surveillance. We actually conduct undercover visits at these facilities to see, you know, if she's being mistreated, if she's being denied, you know, certain things. We also investigate or do surveillance on her when she's going out to show that, you know, she's capable of making decisions and taking care of herself.

But you don't limit the surveillance to only one person. You have to keep your mind open because it could be other individuals who may have a hand in this. And you don't want to leave any stones unturned, okay? You might miss the golden ticket to actually save Wendy. So as a PI, you know, you look at the lifesty to actually save wendy so as a pi you know you look at the lifestyles of people who are close near near to her um or who might have a hand in this whole ordeal what was your lifestyle before this happened uh this whole ordeal and

what is your lifestyle now okay you also want to look into finances, okay? Were you living a lavish lifestyle before this, or are you living a lavish lifestyle now? So the main concern a PI would have is, is she being treated fairly? And also investigating those individuals who might have a hand in this whole ordeal. Is this something that's being orchestrated? What evidence can we get as a PI to help save Wendy? You know, what you just said, Ashley Wardlaw, is very convincing. You have to look at her lifestyle before, her lifestyle now. You have to look at other people that are injecting themselves into Wendy's situation. Do they have a dog in the

fights, get in the game? Does it benefit them for her to stay in a lockdown or in a controlled environment? Guys, you were just seeing pictures from our friends at the U.S. sun that Jessica Finn obtained. Speaking of money, how her money is being spent, this lockdown that the judge had her in was costing nearly a quarter million dollars a year. I don't blame Wendy. I'd want out of it, too. Listen, I want to get out of Guardian. It's been over three years. You know what i'm saying it's time for my money and my life to get back to status quo from our friends at abc

in a pointed email sent to williams attorney judge lisa sokoloff allegedly says she has always contended that williams will be given the independence she can handle. But now she says, quote, I question how well she has handled the independence she has been given. It is said Williams' attorney got another email from the judge about Williams talking to the media that says, tell your client that if she wants a jury, she should refrain from trying to poison the jury pool. Oh, really? Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. To Elizabeth J. McInturff, specialist in guardianship and conservatorship issues. So let me understand.

The judge is saying, if you want a jury trial, don't speak to the press. So in her mind, does she think she could deny Wendy Williams a jury trial? Isn't any comment to the press something you would ask jurors on Vodire? So she can't deny a jury trial if Wendy Williams has a right to a jury trial. I think more what she's doing is what the judiciary does in a lot of situations is which caution against public statements that can kind of influence the outcome of a case. We're making opinions right now based on what Ms. Williams is stating or saying or what we're stating or saying. And the court is in essence warning is if you want, you know, your neutral jury, we need to make sure that we're not making an argument in the court of public opinion. Whoa, whoa, whoa, Elizabeth McInturff. But that's not what she said. She didn't say if you want a neutral jury, don't poison the jury pool. That's not what she said. She didn't say, if you want a neutral jury, don't poison the

jury pool. That's not what she said. She said, if you want a jury trial, tell your client not to speak to the press. If you want a jury trial, as if the judge could take away Wendy Williams' right to a jury trial. If she has a right to a jury trial, she has a right to a jury trial. Correct. Exactly. And let's just take a look at the biography of Judge Lisa Sokoloff. She was primarily a personal injury litigator. You know, some, not me, of course, but some would call that an ambulance chaser. You know, personal injury, slip and fall, personal injury, car crash. She also practiced in family law, divorce, custody of children, splitting up assets. For more than one third of her career, she was an appellate lawyer. Translation, she sat in a cubicle and researched.

That's what that means. Appellate lawyer. Interesting. And now she tells Wendy Williams, hey, hey girl, if you want a jury trial, you better not speak to the media. If she feels that way, she could issue a gag order once legal proceedings have started. But this sounds very much like a threat. And then to state, Elizabeth, I have always contended Williams will be given independence she can handle. I question how well she has handled the independence she has been given. I'm curious, Elizabeth, what has Wendy Williams done

to deserve that comment from the judge? I question how well she's handled the independence she has been given. What did she do wrong? Why would the judge say that to her? The court is concerned with the actions that Wendy Williams is taking right now, including the fact that she may have had a boozy lunch, that she is potentially trying to win a court of public opinion know, caring about her own health right now. Elizabeth, come on, please. Court of public opinion. I could put a parrot up there in a cage to just parrot. Court of public opinion.

Court of public opinion. So what? Every celebrity courts the press and they don't get a threat by the judge. Celebrities do court the press, but this is a different situation than your normal celebrity. We're in a situation right now where we have a guardianship, where we have concerns about Ms. Williams and her health, with her mental health, with how she's been treated, you know, in the past and currently. And so the court is going to have that overriding concern and they want to make sure that she's protected.

You got me over the barrel, Elizabeth McInturff, about the alcohol. But I hardly think that a glass of wine with her niece constitutes the judge stating, I don't know how well you've handled your freedom. Isn't the jury the sole decider of the facts? Isn't it their province alone, not the judge, to establish and analyze the facts? It'll always come down to the trier of facts to determine whether or not, you know, this guardianship is appropriate or not. And that is one of the things that they will take into account. Wendy Williams, this by far is not the first time a celebrity has fought to be free from a draconian conservatorship. Britney Spears, for instance.

What's up, Vegas? I've been thinking a lot about her residency in Vegas. Did she want that? No. No, they worked her. I was a machine. I was a f***ing machine. Not even human.

They literally killed me. They basically worked her. She did rehearsals. She did the whole thing, but she could not get a massage. She could not go to a restaurant. Talk about isolation. That's where our friends at Fox Nation, when I was taping Trapped, I was speaking to Leanne Spears, a close relative of Britney Spears. You know, let me ask Dr. Kendall Crowns and Dr. Bethany Marshall about hysteria, hysteria, female hysteria. Actually, a diagnosis in the 19th century for a behavior or symptom that made men, usually, uncomfortable. It could be depression, infertility, a fondness for writing, according to historical documents. I'm very curious how much Wendy is being penalized because she's not behaving.

You ever heard of that diagnosis, Dr. Kendall Crowns? It led to a lot of mistreatment by women, a lot of mistreatment of women, for instance, putting them in asylums, subjecting them to all sorts of experiments and treatments. Well, yeah, I mean, it's part of medical history is the diagnosis of hysteria with women. In fact, the surgery of a hysterectomy was believed that if they remove the uterus, that the woman's issue would go away. So it's called a hysterectomy because of hysteria, hysterectomy, etc. So that is something from in the past people believe that. I have no offense to Dr. Kendall-Crowns, but I think to alleviate the problem,

it shouldn't be the uterus to be removed. It should probably be the husband. Dr. Bethany Marshall, can you jump in on that female hysteria? Because I believe Wendy is being judged because she's a woman and she has an orthodox behavior. You know, hysteria is like a transient emotional state that goes away. It's not a sign of anything deeper. And there can also be something called pseudo dementia, where a person appears to have dementia on the surface, but they don't really have it. I think the thing about Britney Spears, Nancy, is that the problem is they placed her in a conservatorship with her father. Families are notoriously money hungry when they have a star

in their midst. And in this case, what the judge is doing is removing her from the family and putting her with a neutral party who has no skin in the game. This person is not going to profit financially off of Wendy Williams. I think the elephant in the room, Nancy, I really do, is the son. You don't think the conservator is getting paid? Yes, but not millions of dollars. She can't do to Wendy Williams what Britney Spears' father did. That is the big difference. And Nancy, the judge is getting it right in one respect for sure, and that is she's sending Wendy Williams back for further testing. In that case, she will see the progression of the disease, which will then be

compared against the baseline. Well, Dr. Bethany Marshall, you got me over the barrel with her drinking, if in fact she has alcohol related brain damage. And regarding additional tests, why not? Just to be sure. threatening, seemingly, to take away Wendy Williams' right to a jury trial and treating her, like I said, like a petulant child who stole some jelly beans at the candy store, reprimanding her in that way. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.