Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - FRIDAY NIGHT SPECIAL : Rex Heuermann Cleared in Murder of "Peaches" and 2-Year-Old

Episode Date: December 6, 2025

Rex Heuermann has been cleared in the strangulation death of Colleen McNamee. The 20 year old was beaten strangled and dumped near the William Floyd Parkway in 1994. DNA testing confirmed Heuermann was not connected with the murder.     The DNA test was conducted following a request by convicted killer John Bittrolff. He was convicted in 2017 of killing McNamee and Rita Tangredi. Her battered body was found in  in 1993. Bittrolff tried to pin McNamee’s murder on Heuermann. DNA proved the claim incorrect. Police arrest prominent New York architect Rex Heuerman in connection with the Gilgo Beach serial killings. Rex Heuerman,59, is charged in multiple deaths of women whose bodies were found buried. These include Melissa Barthelemy, Megan Waterman, and Amber Costello.    The women's remains were found along Gilgo Beach in Long Island within 500 feet of each other. However, investigators have found a total of  eleven bodies but Heuerman is not charged in all. Seven so far.    Heuermann claims he is innocent.  Now a judge rules that evidence collected through cutting-edge DNA technology will be admissible at his trial. Prosecutors say the DNA points directly at Rex Heuermann. The technology specializes in extracting nuclear DNA from damaged or hard-to-get samples, such as rootless hair, like those found on six of the victims.     Joining Nancy Grace Today: John Ray - Attorney for family of Shannan Gilbert Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst (Beverly Hills): Twitter: @DrBethanyLive    Deputy Police Commissioner Anthony M. Carter - Suffolk County Police Department Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University; Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet" and Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan;" Twitter: @JoScottForensic Todd G. Shipley, CFE, CFCE - Cyber crime expert, Author: “Investigating Internet Crimes: An Introduction to Solving Crimes in Cyberspace;" Twitter: @webcase Toby Wolson - Forensic Consultant Specializing in DNA, Serology and Bloodstain Pattern Analysis Kristin Thorne- Investigative Reporter for WABC Channel 7 Eyewitness News in New York, and Host of Hulu’s true-crime show, “Missing;" @KristinThorne on Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Threads, & LinkedIn  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Rex Hewerman, the name will live forever in infamy along names like Ted Bundy, BTK, buying torture, kill, Dennis Raider, Timothy McVeigh, Charles Manson, oh gosh, I could go on. Rex Hiraman, the alleged Long Island serial killer awaiting trial, we know what he did to his victims, horrific, horrific murders after horrific, horrific, horrific sex torture while his wife and children were out of town in a basement dungeon, then burying them so he could look at There are graves every day when he went to work on Long Island there at Gilgo Beach.

And that is tonight's Friday night special, and it is very, very special. I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime stories. I want to thank you for being with us. Rex Heerman. Cops say he is the Long Island serial killer. I believe he can be connected. and will be connected to many, many other dead bodies. But for tonight, for our Friday night special, I hope you're sitting down. If you look at the faces of all the women,

he allegedly murdered. One, two, three, four, five, I mean on and on, five, six, seven, and counting. All these women dead at the hands of Rex Heuerman? What do we know? Nancy, as you said, Rex Heuerman is suspected in and charged in multiple gruesome murders of young sex workers on Long Island. But now he has been cleared in the strangulation death of Colleen McNamee. The 20-year-old was beaten, strangled, and dumped near William Floyd Parkway in 1994.

DNA testing cleared Hewerman. in connection with the murder. Quoting from the coroner's report, a comparison between cyber genetics developed profile. Unknown male A and the DNA profile of Rex Heurman was performed, assuming that the unknown male A profile is a mixture without any aleic dropout, and strictly based on possible genotypes present in the profile, Rex Heurman is excluded as unknown male A, end quote.

The DNA test was, was conducted following a request by convicted killer John Mitt Rolf. He was convicted in 2017 of killing McNamee and Rita Tengready. Her battered body was found in 1993. Bitrolf tried to pin McNamee's murder on Hewerman. DNA proved the claim innocent. But in seven other cases, it is DNA evidence linking Hewerman, the accused serial killer, to seven other bodies. Valerie Mack, Jessica Taylor, Megan Waterman, Melissa Bartholome, 24, Marine Raynard Barnes, 25, Sandra Costillo 28, and Amberlyn Costello 27.

They were murdered between 1993 and 2010. Heurman, a Manhattan architect, denied he was behind the gruesome killings. He has been held since his arrest without bail. Meanwhile, Bitteroff, a 58-year-old former carpenter, is now serving 50 years to life for the two murders. What exactly do we know about the murders? Rex Heerman, a very well-respected architect, now behind bars, in the deaths of many women connected in time, and location, many of them sex workers, all of them, daughters, mother,

brothers, sisters, girlfriends, take a listen to this. It is one of the most baffling serial murder cases in modern American history. Centred on this lonely stretch of sand on the south shore of Long Island, New York. Gilgo Beach, a small community with a big mystery on its hands. The bodies of 15 brutally murdered young women. And there seems to be a pattern. Many of them, under five feet tall and less than one, 100 pounds all dumped in the surrounding dunes over a period of 20 years there's been some new

developments in the gilgo investigation last night a little bit around 830 p.m. in the vicinity of 35th and 5th avenue in the city members assigned to the gilgo beach task force did place one individual under arrest after years of searching and fear years of troops. crime hobbyists and their theories. Rex, did you do it? Turned out the suspected Gilgo Beach killer was hiding in plain sight the whole time. 59-year-old Rex Heurman, a suburban husband, father of two, and cops say, is a demon that walks among us, a predator that ruined families.

If not for the members of this task force, he would still be on the streets today. You darn right. If not for this newly formed task force, instituted by the new elected district attorney, this guy would still be walking free, and I guarantee you, would still be killing, and I've got facts to support that theory. You were just hearing our friends at Crime Watch Daily, WABC 7, and the Suffolk County Police Commissioner Rodney Harrison, with me, an all-star panel. But first, I want to go to a special guest joining us, Anthony M. Carter. this is the deputy police commissioner in suffolk county deputy commissioner man it's been a long time coming i want to hear your reaction to the arrest of a prominent architect a father a husband it's kind of hard to believe but you guys have known for some time in keeping it on the down low what was happening because you had intel

this guy was watching the police's every move yeah you know it all began when Commissioner Harrison took office here at the Suffolk County Police Department. And one of his top priorities was the Gilgo Beach investigation. And he had a vision as, you know, the former chief of the NYPD, former chief of department and the experience that he had, uh, one of the things he knew is that we needed to get a fresh look at the case and we needed to get our, law enforcement partners involved and Commissioner Harrison created this task force called it the Bilgo Beach task force and it comprised of investigators

from the state police the district attorney's office the sheriff's department you know you cut out on me right there for a second but I think you said the FBI and in the past before the knee regime there was a lot of resistance to bringing in the FBI, but when you've got women dying, going missing, and now all these bodies turning up unsolved, hey, you know what? I'm happy for all the help I can get every single day. So I just congratulate you and your commissioner, Harrison, on this arrest, and it was a joint effort. And you know, I like that about you and your boss. You don't try to hog the limelight or say it's all about you. You really always give the credit to everyone involved. And you know, standing by right

now, Kristen Thorne is with me, very well-known investigative reporter, ABC Channel 7, eyewitness news, host of Hulu's new crime show missing. Kristen, it's great to have you and you have stood by. You and I both have plotted around there at the beach, looking for clues, trying to find answers. Can you believe we've finally gotten arrest? And I I got to tell you, Kristen, just in time, because this P-O-S technical legal term was caught on camera at a cell phone store paying in cash from what I can tell for more burner phone minutes. That's his MO.

You want to tell me this guy's out of business? Oh, H-E-L-N-O. He's still at it, Kristen. Yeah, Nancy, and I think that's what's really scary about this entire situation and why law enforcement decided it was time. Look, they wanted to have Maureen Brainerd Barnes included in this indictment and she has absolutely mentioned in this indictment. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on, lady. Back it up. You're going warp four before we can get there. There's so many bodies, but you often hear of the Gilgo four. Correct me if I'm on, Kristen. But you are correct. The Gilgo

four were all found in burlap bags, similarly bound, naked, having. been sex assaulted, which really links them together right now, this architect, this dad, this husband is charged with six counts, three murders, three felony murder charges, three second-degree murder charges, three victims. But it's just a matter of days, I believe, before he's charged with the fourth. Then we've got to deal with all the other dead bodies. But you refer to a woman, Braynard Barnes, but. Marines, Maureenrainer Barnes, age 25.

He's the prime suspect, and she's number four in the Gilgo 4. Did I make that clear? Yes. Okay, go ahead. Yes, and so the law enforcement knew that they had to get him now because they were worried about what he may do next, what he was looking on his phone. I mean, creepy dude. Kristen, creepy dude.

You know, my daughter and my son, they'll see, they're just 15. They'll see some money and go, okay, that's a creepy dude. Right there. Tell us, Kristen, about this creepy dude going up to a woman in a park setting in the last couple of months and completely skeeving her out. He was walking around and she was in the woods. It's a nice wooded park in Massapequa Park and she was walking around and he, as she says, came up behind him and was asking about her boyfriend and, you know, he's a very big man. six four hey what do you put him at uh anthony carter guys i'm speaking to anthony carter but he is the deputy police commissioner i mean i'm acting like i'm sitting here having a cup of coffee with this guy he's been on this from the get-go since he came in and they formed the new task force how much

does this guy weigh what'd you put him at 240 yeah i mean he's a he's a very large individual i would definitely say yeah right around there around a 240 pound mark uh very just very just an oversized, you know, very large man. And, you know, yeah, I mean, I know everybody's seen that YouTube video, you know, and where he's towering over the person that's conducting the interview with him. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. In the last days, a New York State Supreme Court justice rules damning DNA evidence tying Rex Hewerman to the murders of many women whose remains were found near Gilgo Beach will

come into trial. And just think about it. These are the bodies we know about. Are there other bodies? I would be very surprised if there were not. Dr. Bethany Marshall, you go up to a woman in a park, sneak up behind her and go, hey, who's your boyfriend? I would run.

Nancy, what it tells me is that he was constantly trolling for victims. And as a part of trolling for victims, he had this whole list of questions. I mean, number one would be, hey, do you have a boyfriend? Who's your boyfriend? The reason for that is who is he going to have to separate the woman from? Does she have family? Does she have people who's interested in her? And if so, it's going to make it more difficult to kidnap, sex assault her.

Secondly, he's looking for women who are quite short, who are petite, women he can easily handle, easily, you know, kidnap and transport from one area to another. And then he actually probably has many other aspects of his victim profile that are going to come out during the course of this investigation, especially as it pertains to his online searches. Maybe underage kids, Twinks was one of the things I heard, you know, young. Hi. What was the last thing you said? Twinks. You need to tell everybody what that means. Okay, a twink is a young man who looks very feminine, usually underweight, very small,

and the old-fashioned work for them is twinks. So that was one of his victim profiles that he was looking for with these kinds of young men. Hey, guys, this includes you, Kristen Thorne, Toby Wilson, Todd Shipley, Joe Scott Morgan, Deputy Commissioner Carter, Dr. Bethany, John Ray, the lawyer for the family of Shannon Gilbert. She may not be connected to human. We don't know that yet. But it's because of her that all of these bodies were found. She's dead. She was killed. There on Long Island. And I believe it hadn't been for her body being discovered. We may never have found the other bodies. That said, everybody jump in whenever you have a thought.

But you hear Dr. Bethany Marshall correctly describing the fact of these Google searches we have just learned about. The police, of course, knew about it with me. Todd Shipley, cybercrime expert author of investigating internet crimes. You can find him at darkintel.info. Todd, just follow up, please, with what Dr. Bethany just said about this guy. perverted Google searches. I'm sure you've seen them, right? Sure. I think what's important is the fact that that was available once they identified the suspect and

they were able to go to Google and subpoena them because they did over 300 subpoenas early on. So there's a lot of information that we still don't know about yet. But once they started looking at this guy, it was pretty evident that he was the one because the searches were evident looking for information about the case. He was trying to find out what the law enforcement agencies knew about him and what they were divulging online and how much information was there. And he was doing, you know, his dating and all the other things that go along with what was happening. So it was pretty apparent, you know, once they started looking at his searches that this was a person of interest for them. And it's pretty telling that there's

that much information about us when we start thinking about, you know, evidence online and what We do. You know what? That's perfectly put, but if I were putting this to a jury, I'd say it's something more like blonde girl crying being raped, black slave girl being raped. America's five most notorious old cases. Why hasn't Long Island serial killer been caught? why could law enforcement not trace calls made by Long Island serial killer?

I mean, who would know to ask that particular question except for the Long Island serial killer? Exactly. I mean, when I would think about the Long Island serial killer, I would have so many thoughts, so many questions. But I didn't know at the time, because people like Deputy Commissioner Anthony Carter kept it so secret, as he should have, I didn't know about the use of burner phones. Well, somebody did. This guy was looking up, why can't they trace his burner phones? No, I mean, that's specifically what they ended up doing,

because if you look at how they started pieces together, which was brilliant by the agents that were involved, they, in officers, they started to find those pieces, and they started to relate to, you know, proving the negative. Who was around those burner phones when they had the geolocation that they had from 10 years ago? And so the fact they went back and looked at all that evidence and started to prove that the target was close by, you know, those same phone calls was a brilliant move to prove that he did it. And then they were able to go back after, you know, his phones himself and starting to look at what's there.

Now, what's going to be interesting, too, is the digital evidence that they find in the search of his house. I can't wait to see what they found in his computer because that's going to be telling, too. Other searches. And I want to go to John Ray, the family lawyer, for. victim Shannon Gilbert. I know that Shannon's family has been tortured, especially when they see this guy's searches, which say things like blonde hair girl, young, depressed, teen girl oiled bodies, nude slave girls. I have to leave out some of this because even I wouldn't say it blank shot and crying porn, girl

hogtied torture porn. Skinny Red Head, tied up porn, short fat girl tied up porn, tied up and raped porn, as Dr. Bethany pointed out, Asian twink tied up porn, tied slave, force-fed, okay, I'm not going to finish that one, I mean, a teen girl begging for rape porn, pretty girl with bruised face porn, my mouth feels filthy. I need to go wash it out with soap. This was what is on his Google searches. John Ray, now Shannon's family has to read this and only imagine what Shannon may have or the other victims put up with what they endured what they lived through before they died. I want to vomit.

I can play. Everybody does. I think this this monster, this giant monster who I characterize as Tyrannosaurus Rex, his image. is now frozen in the minds of the Gilbert family. And I also represent Jessica Taylor's family. And they have the same reaction. 20-year-old Jessica Taylor also found there along the beach. Go ahead.

Yeah. And these families have this image now that's frozen in their mind that he is a killer. There's no way to be sure that he had anything to do with Shannon Gilbert at this point. We're looking hard at that. but as we speak, but, you know, just the image itself of what happened. And when you take what we do know of what happened to Shannon that the night that, or early morning that she disappeared, we know that she was under a threat from somebody like him, either he himself or somebody like him.

And there is probably more than one of them. But we're still very optimistic now. and delighted that Ray Tierney, the district attorney and Rodney Harrison, the police commissioner, finally put together the agencies that weren't working together so that this can be done. So we're looking forward. We think that there's a really good chance that Tyrannosaurus Rex killed the others as well because he was a hunter. And hunters, he was a proficient hunter.

They have tools and they take apart their animals. So he's certainly capable of having dismembered these. these others that are there. So, of course. And you know, another issue. Kristen Thorne joining me, investigative reporter, WABC, star of Hulu's true crime show missing. Kristen, just because he ran out of Boroughat bags, okay, that does not mean he's not

connected to all the other bodies. And I'm telling you, Kristen, there are more victims. There are more victims. You know, Nancy, I think what concerns me and what has kept me up at night the last few days since this happened is not necessarily of course the remains that are still left to the six other remains there along ocean parkway on long island but it's the women we haven't heard about yet right so in some of the cases i've covered in my show i have some concerns and i do hope that they will be using some of the bina evidence that they have to look at some of these other women

who have disappeared in the tri-state area who i believe and their family believes were victims of violence, one in particular who was worked in the same line of work as the other women. And so that's what concerns me. Who is out there, the women or anybody else? Because we haven't yet identified his profile, right? We know about the Gilgo for, but we don't know who else he may have been interested in killing or where his interest, quote unquote, lie. Can I make a comment about that?

Yeah, jump in, but I need to go to Anthony Carter about what they're doing. right now. Bethany, hold on just a moment. Deputy Commissioner Carter, I pray to God in heaven that this new task force, and I'm sure you're not going to tell me, is comparing his DNA to every other DNA that's been found in, let's just say, the tri-state area, because once these bodies were discovered, you know he found another dumping ground, all right? Comparing his DNA, looking at who else he's been calling on his many, many, many burner. phones and figuring out where he was seen and that Chevy avalanche, which I want to ask you, Deputy Commissioner, I happen to know that the avalanche discontinued manufacturer in 2013.

Yet here's an avalanche part outside his place, I believe a relative's place. An avalanche was seen at one of the victim's homes. Let me think, I believe it was Amber Costello. Long story short, I can go on and on and on about, wow. Wow, here's the avalanche parked outside his home, a few miles away from where the bodies are found, and a witness places an avalanche at one of the victim's homes. How come it took so long? But that is something for me to chew apart on another day.

I want to know that his DNA is being compared to other DNA, especially in that tri-state area. No, and that's a great question. And the one thing that maybe some, some out there may think that, you know, the arrest was made. We arrested this subject that the task force has, you know, concluded their investigation. And we're just going to go ahead and just look at Rex. The investigation, the task force is going to remain intact. and they are going to continue gathering evidence in both with wrecks and the go-go beach investigation is far from over and okay i'm going to take that as a yes even though you're

not saying yes i'm taking it as a yes to say to examine every piece of evidence that's right though absolutely speaking of every piece of evidence let's take a look at it we can talk about the mo that all the women were many of them contacted on craigslist they were sex workers. They were found dead in the same way. Physical similarities. All these four put in burlap bags disposed of on a lonely stretch of beach about 20 plus minutes away from his home at Massapequa Park. But what about the evidence, the hard evidence? Take a listen to our cut 3G, our friends at ABC 7. Prosecutors say the smoking gun was a pizza crust. Police dug through Heurman's trash matching DNA from a partially eaten slice to previously unidentified hairs found

on three of the Gilgo victims. Today, they booked Hewerman on murder charges, accused in the deaths of Melissa Bartholomey, Megan Waterman, and Amber Lynn Costello. And he's a prime suspect in the death of a fourth, Marine Brainerd Barnes. Okay, let's talk about the hard DNA evidence. evidence from a hair. One of those hairs was found at the bottom of one of the burlap bags that one of the victims were discarded in. Also, apparently, correct me if I'm wrong, jump on it, Kirsten Thorne. Three victims had the defendant's wife's hair on them, obviously a transfer from her to him and from him on to the victim. So that's at least four pieces of DNA that we know of.

Then one of the victims is tied up with a leather belt. Hopefully maybe DNA, touch DNA was taken off of that. Am I missing any DNA, Kristen? No, that sounds, that is absolutely correct. But I would love to talk about the wife's hair. Sure, because I've got a professor of forensics with me and a forensic consultant specializing in DNA waiting to jump on this because this, this is going to get him in addition to all of the circumstantial evidence. Tell me, Kristen. Here's my question,

and I would love to hear from you, Nancy, and from your experts. To me, finding the wife's hair on one victim would have been interesting. To find it on three, I'm trying to actually, you know, when you try to think, how does this happen? How does the wife's hair end up on it each time? And again, I am not implying anything about her. I'm trying to actually go through how this happened. Does anybody have any thoughts on that? I've got a thought, but I'll bring in the experts, a transfer.

Just like, okay, just a few minutes ago right before we went to air, my coworker, Sydney, handed me a big, stack of papers to go through about three minutes before we started and she leaned over me with her long blonde hair and I turned I guarantee you some piece of hair or some something brushed up against my jacket and it's there okay you know who loves talking about this Joe Scott Morgan he loves what's your uh you have some quote you always start with why I okay I'll let you tell it Joe Scott Morgan with me Professor Forensics Jacksonville State University And I've got to tell you, I've been to their Krimpro building and facilities.

That's an incredible program, Joe Scott. Author of Blood Beneath My Feet and host of a hit series Bodybacks with Joe Scott Morgan. Go ahead. No action. Doesn't leave a trace. What's the rest of that? LeCard's principle. Every contact leaves a trace.

And it is the cornerstone that we work from in forensics. And it's, it's, it's, that axiom is over 100 years old and it still applies. Tell it, Joe Scott, preach it, brother, because this guy is going down because of this DNA. And when I think of these computer searches and him acting out those horrible, horrible, evil computer searches, all of these ladies to hell with him. Now I got to figure out a way to prove it. Hit it. Let me give you a hellscape here. And I think that it exists in that half.

house. And this is my supposition here. You know, we were speaking just a moment ago about the transfer of the wife's hair. You know, you mentioned Sydney in the studio. What, what space do you guys share probably on a daily basis when you're laying down sound? It's in that studio. Okay. So within that environment, you kind of coexist in that environment. I am very curious, Nancy, relative to the accused. where any of these victims brought back to this home. That's such a good idea, Joe Scott. Because remember Joe Scott, many of these, and jump in Anthony Carter, Deputy Commissioner and Kristen Thorne,

because you may know better than Joe Scott and I, many of these murders occur while his wife was gone. And she has very distinct hair. She is Icelandic. So her DNA is going to be very identifiable. And this is mitochondrial DNA, which comes from your. mother only. So anybody jump in with a thought. Bethany, I promise I'm circling back. This is Toby. First of all, the hair, I was a forensic hair examiner for a short time also.

The average person that has hair loses about 100 hairs a day randomly. So the hair connection on just the one victim would be coincident, could be yelled called coincidence. On three victims, it becomes more of a pattern. But the locations of the hair is because of that. If she rode in the avalanche, if it was on his clothing, if he took any of the victims home, all those are reasonable explanations for where the hair is that the DNA was done on came from because of the fact that we lose hair so easily. So that connection, you know, is more open to interpretation where you come.

from, it's very probable because he transported them or may have transported them in the avalanche that the hairs were on him or in that vehicle and that's where the transfer occurred. Or if the furloughed bags came from his home, they could have been transferred there. But hair transfers are a common thing and, you know, it makes it harder to interpret what's going on because of how common it is. But I agree with you. You're hearing Toby Wilson, for instance, it comes to. consultant specializing in DNA, serology, bloodstain at no slowphorinsic.com.

Well, he's right, of course, Joe Scott Morgan, but three hairs, as Kristen Thorne pointed out, each one on a different victim, I want to explore your theory that these victims may have been taken to his home. I mean, when you've got three hairs on three different victims, the only thing the defense can do was an OJ defense. It was planted. I mean, let me hear your theory, Joe Scott. Well, this is one thing that I'm very encouraged by and that these folks are doing

is that I saw these images on the news of the police, the investigators, going in and out of that home. And Nancy, I hope they retain this place and take it down to the damn studs, that everything that they can harvest out of that environment from an evidentiary standpoint is going to be acquired. Here's one more thing, and I'll be quiet. I don't want you to be quiet. I love everything you're saying.

It's something that really sent a chill up my spine, and maybe it's a wild goose chase. But this one victim, I was looking at this charging document that's mentioned, Ms. Marine Brainer Barnes. And one thing that kind of sent a chill up my spine was that this burner phone that the accused had or that he is alleged to have had, had contacts with Marines' phone 16 times, Nancy,

over a period of time from July the 6th or July the 9th, okay? They have her phone finally dropping off the face for a while, and there's like a couple of days lag in there. But then here's the chilling part. He, apparently, the perpetrator, opened her phone up again, and began to check her messages. Let me ask you something. Nancy, would you just blindly give without any kind of fighting back?

Would you give somebody the code to your cell phone to check your messages? I mean, I know I wouldn't. I don't know about the other folks on the panel. But how did he get that information from her in order to get into her voicemail to check it? if that is true, what they're alleged. And that to me is chilling. That to me shows that he may have been in control of that person in particular. About the rest of them, I have no idea.

Well, all you've got to do is look at his Google searches, Joe Scott and figure. And I can tell you, I mean, he looks up a hog-tying, raping woman. Obviously, he is fixated on torture. I mean, Dr. Bethany Marshall, you don't see that kind of Google search every day. And I've looked at plenty of people's computers in their searches. No, absolutely not. And to frame our discussion, if you think of this guy as a combination of an obsessive sex addict who thrives off power and inflicting pain in order to enhance his sexual arousal, his victim profile is going to keep changing if he goes to more and more extreme types of pornography and more different types of victims in order to enhance

his sexual arousal. So maybe he starts with someone within his own race, an age mate. Then he goes to a younger person than a smaller person, than a bigger person, than a man, than a woman, than a child. And so I think that the complication and why the investigation is going to have to focus so much on the data and the science is this guy is going to find. anything in order to increase his sexual arousal and not just finding different victims, but stalking them, toying with them, perhaps taking them back to his house.

You know, this is not a one and done kind of guy where maybe someone looks at pornography, masturbates, closes the computer. This is a guy who's going to get as much sexual satisfaction out of any one victim as possible. So it's multiple assault against one victim over an extended period of time. Which goes back to Joe Scott Morgan's theory that some of the victims may have been taken to the home because an extended period of time assault probably would not take place in a vehicle, i.e. the Chevy Avalanche. I know the condition in which these bodies were found, but what do we know about Heerman?

Deputy Commissioner, I don't know if you can comment on this, but can you describe how his DNA was obtained off a pizza crust? During surveillance, you know, he was being observed, and there was an opportunity where he had discarded a, I guess, like a small personal pizza box into a garbage in the city, and our undercovers were able to retrieve that box. And just to go back on a point to, you know, whether, you know, his home may have been involved in the location of the, of the homicides, the one thing that we can say is that it's not a a coincidence that his wife and family were away in three of the murders. And we're taking, you know, like I said, active investigation, we're at the home.

I think somebody had mentioned on the call here that we're taking the house. We should take the house. And I think that is the plan to, you know, get every piece of evidence that we can possibly get while we're inside of that home. With me, Deputy Commissioner Anthony, Carter from Suffolk County Police. I got to tell you something, Deputy Commissioner. I'm the first one to scream when police screw up an investigation because it hurts me as a former prosecutor and a crime victim myself. But I am so impressed with your surveillance

of Heerman, your identification of him. I know it's been a long time coming, but this is a fresh homicide task force. This is a whole new look because this case was ignored by prior administrations. You guys come in there like a barn on fire. You find this guy, you surveil him, you re-look at the evidence. Then you catch him discarding a pizza crust and get his DNA, which matches up to other DNA. You get his wife's DNA.

Do we have any idea? Can you comment on how you did that, Deputy Commissioner? So same, you know, same methodology in trying to obtain abandonment samples, you know, very similar fashion where we were able to obtain recycled cans from their, you know, from where they live. So that's how you got the wife's DNA. That's correct. Wow. There's so much. I hardly know which way to go.

But let me understand something. Kristen Thorne, anybody on the panel that knows the answer to this. The way I'm reading the affidavit and other information was this idiot actually traveling with a burner phone and his own private mobile phone together like Koberger. You know, you can see him traveling away from the crime scene. Did that happen? Does anybody know? Well, we know that they certainly, there are, they certainly track the burner phone's relationship and location near Massapequa part. as well as his Midtown office.

And they called that the box. That was the four, the points that they used to triangulate, although in that word it would be three sides, but the box would be four to really, you know, pinpoint that his locations, where he was, where he lives, where he worked, were also coordinating with the hits from these burner phones. Okay, break that down to regular people talk.

This is Todd. So I think what's significant is what she's saying, And what they alleged in the court documents is that they found no instance where the suspect was in a separate location from the other cell phones when the communications occurred when he was talking to them from the burner phones. And so that's significant that they tied them together from those SOTO records that his phone was there and the burner phone was there. And instances outside of the calls, his phone, you know, was not there. So it's pretty significant. Okay. That is entirely significant to Anthony Carter, Deputy Police Commissioner. What do you make of that theory? So, you know, I think when we talk about some of the locations that we talk about, you know, the burner phones versus his phone and trying to tie that all in, I think it was, you know, it was challenging because we look, we're looking in an area of over 1,500 homes that also included a portion of the massive.

Pekua Preserve and that also then opens up which are hitting those cell towers to people that may or may not even live in Massapequa may or may not even live in Nassau County so I mean that is one of the things behind the exhaustive effort committed by the members and the task force to try to drill down and get the the right information so then the right evidence to you know move us forward in the case. Kristen Thorne, W.A.B.C. Channel 7. What can you tell me about recent revelations of a storage unit search? So we know that there is an active investigation right now around a

storage unit on Long Island, and for all we know, and we believe that it is connected to this investigation. You know, I think what they're going to be looking for, and I also noticed in the indictment, and we talk about his house and how they do need to and are going to tear apart at that house. There were items missing from the victims. So jewelry, some pieces of clothing. Those are things that would probably be familiar to the family that the family told them she used to always wear this necklace, this bracelet. That's very common we find. And so those things were missing. And so those are the things that they're going to be looking for in the house and in this potential storage unit. This is rapidly developing, but for right now.

What do we know? Breaking today in the Long Island serial killer case, an arrest has been made in the death of Tanya Jackson and her two-year-old daughter, Tatiana Dykes. That case had been connected to Hurerman, but he had not been charged. For years, she was simply known as Peaches because of a distinctive tattoo on her body.

Andrew Dykes, 66, has now appeared before a Florida judge in connection with the case. Dykes is believed to be the father of Taiches. Authorities are petitioning for his extradition to New York. The staggering number of bodies found is going to overwhelm any juror, but it's the truth, and you cannot hide the truth from a jury. We wait as justice unfolds. Goodbye, friend.

This is an I-Heart podcast, guaranteed human.