Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - "FRIEND" Says He SLEPT THROUGH DEATHS OF 3 CHIEFS FANS, BODIES IN HIS BACK YARD!

Episode Date: January 24, 2024

On January 7, the Kansas City Chiefs play the Los Angeles Chargers.  Jordan Willis invites a couple of buddies to watch the game at his home. David Harrington, Ricky Johnson, and Clayton McGeeney arrive in time for the 3:25 p.m. CST time kickoff. After the game, Willis waves the guys off and crashes on the couch.  Later, he heads to bed. The next day, Willis says he didn't leave his home at all. That same day, the friends and family of David Harrington, Ricky Johnson, and Clayton McGeeney are concerned. The last they knew was that they were headed to Jordan Willis' house to watch the game but now, none of the guys, including Jordan Willis, are replying to messages on social media or by phone. Tuesday, January 9, 9:51 p.m.: Clayton McGeeney’s fiancée shows up at the Willis' home.  She sees the cars in the driveway and since nobody is answering the phone or replying to messages, She breaks into the home and screams Willis' name.  She walks through the house, then looks on the back porch and sees a body.  Clayton McGeeney's fiancée calls police. They find Willis in his underwear with an empty glass of wine in hand, according to the victims' families. The other two bodies were then found in the backyard. Jordan Willis tells police he has no idea what happened.  Joining Nancy Grace Today: James Shelnutt – Attorney – The Shelnutt Law Firm, P.C.; 27-year Atlanta Metro Area Major Case Detective and Former S.W.A.T. Officer; X: @ShelnuttLawFirm Dr. Jorey Krawczyn – Police Psychologist, Adjunct Faculty with Saint Leo University; Research Consultant with Blue Wall Institute, Author: Operation S.O.S. – Practical Recommendations to Help “Stop Officer Suicide”  Justin Boardman – Retired Detective, West Valley City Police Department Special Victim’s Unit, Boardman Training & Consulting Dr. Kendall Crowns – Chief Medical Examiner Tarrant County (Ft Worth) and Lecturer: University of Texas Austin and Texas Christian University Medical School  Jen Smith - Chief Reporter for DailyMail.com; X: @jen_e_smith   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. There's a party watching the Kansas City Chiefs. And who wouldn't? Everybody wants to see Taylor Swift, right? Oh, excuse me. Everybody wants to see the Chiefs win. So four diehard fans get together and they watch the game. So how do three of them end up dead on the porch in the backyard focus on porch right outside the door you can see it how did three of the friends end up dead and the fourth friend claims he was quote asleep

for two days he was asleep for two days He never went outside and saw the dead body? Okay. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thanks for being with us here at Crime Stories and on Sirius XM 111. What do we know? Listen. On January 8, friends and family of David Harrington, Ricky Johnson, and Clayton McGinney are concerned about their friends. The last they knew is they were headed to Jordan Willis' house to watch the game. But now, none of the guys, including Jordan Willis, are replying to messages on social media or by phone. Okay, right there. January 8th, it's cold. They are partying at Jordan's home, Jordan Willis, the homeowner. They're watching the Chiefs and the next thing you know three are dead and one claims he's been asleep for days. With me an all-star

panel. But first I want to go to the woman who has been breaking news about this story from the get-go. It's Jen Smith and she is joining us from DailyMail.com. Jen, that's where I first found out about this, and it really just hit me in the face. This guy, Jordan Willis, I mean, he's no idiot. Isn't he a scientist? He's a young guy, big Kansas City Chiefs fan, but he's smart. He's really smart. I don't get how he sleeps for how many days while his friends are dead in the backyard. Yeah, I mean, very, very fishy, to say the least. Jordan Willis, as you rightly point out, is an accomplished scientist, done loads of research into HIV and AIDS, lots of research into COVID-19.

Very accomplished guy, no form of record, living in this home in Kansas City, Missouri. He had gone to high school with two of the three men who were later found dead, was friends with the other for many years. Seemingly a completely normal guy. He lived alone in the house. He worked from home home he had his two beloved pit bulls there how many pets does he have he has two pit bull mixes they're called sadie and daisy wait sadie and daisy don't have to tt for what 72 hours well on this particular night man say daisy and sadie weren't in the house according to jordan Willis they were at his father's house which he says is something that is totally routine he often sends them to his father's house so they

weren't actually there he claimed when all of this happened. Okay James Shelnut joining me high profile lawyer joining us out of Alabama 27 years metro major case in a big city, former SWAT now leads the Shelnut Law Firm. James Shelnut, let me remind you, defense attorney, there is no father-son privilege like attorney-client or priest-parishioner. No such thing. You know, husband-wife, the wife can't blab that the husband did it. So what I'm saying is, if this is true or not true about the dogs being at the dad's house when the three friends are found dead in the backyard and on the porch, he's got to testify if called. Absolutely. He's got to testify. And, you know, he can be subpoenaed in front of a grand jury. He doesn't have to talk to investigators when they come to his house, but they can most certainly down the road, if it

becomes necessary, subpoena him to a grand jury. And then he will be forced to testify unless he himself were to take the Fifth Amendment. Now, you know, Shelnut, I never discuss politics because I don't want crime and crime victims to become some kind of political football. But when this reality of the law came to the forefront was during the Bill Clinton era when Monica Lewinsky's mother was called to a grand jury and everybody was screaming, oh, the mother's going to have to testify. That's wrong. That's illegal. It's not. It is not illegal. Mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, they have to testify.

They cannot take the fifth. They've got to tell the truth about their relative, their son, their daughter. So that's when it came to the forefront, harsh as it is. Of course, I'm not saying the mom or the dad won't lie under oath. I mean, take a look at Casey Anthony, top mom. Her mother, Cindy Anthony, a very nice lady, got up on the stand and she, I believe, perjured herself and took the heat, claiming that she made the searches for homemade chloroform, which she said she meant to type chlorophyll. Okay, whatever. That said, she still got called to the stand. So if what Jen Smith is telling us, chief investigative reporter at DailyMail.com is true, the debt, I guarantee you, is going to be questioned.

But back to the three dead bodies. Listen to Sydney Sumner from Crime Online. On Tuesday, January 9th, 9.51 p.m., Clayton McGinney's fiancee shows up at the house. She sees the cars in the driveway, and since nobody is answering the phone or replying to messages, she breaks into the home and screams Willis's name. She has had no communication with her partner for two days, and she wants answers. She walks through the house and doesn't find her fiance. Then she looks on the back porch and sees a body. Holy moly. So the fiance has been trying to reach all of these guys. Let me understand, Jen Smith, joining us dailymail.com. Did she just call her fiance, Clayton McGinney, or did she try to reach the homeowner, Jordan Willis? All of the above.

She tried to reach Clayton. She tried to reach Jordan Willis. The other families also tried to reach him. Before the fiance eventually went to the house on, and she ended up breaking in actually through the basement because she got no response when she banged on the door. Other families had gone there and banged on the door and tried to get in. They sent Jordan Willis Facebook messages they called him all of which

they received silence from so it wasn't as if this was her first attempt including calling all the friends all four of them including the home owner and I'm not calling him the perp or the defendant because he as of right now, has not been charged with a crime. Okay, let's pick it up with the fiance going through that, breaking in. I mean, she sees the cars out front. She sees that they're all still there, but nobody's answering the door, the phone messages, nothing. So she breaks in wisely and starts screaming. Let's pick it up. But how did the whole thing start? OK, let's freeze the screaming fiance in time. How did this day start off? Listen, January 7 is a football day for the Kansas City Chiefs as they will be playing the Los Angeles

Chargers. So 38 year old Jordan Willis invites a couple of buddies to come to his house and watch the game. David Harrington, Ricky Johnson, and Clayton McGinney arrive at Willis' house in time for the 3.25 p.m. Central Time kickoff. They enjoy the game as the Chiefs beat the Chargers 13-12, and Willis makes plans for them to all get tickets for the next home game. Okay, what happens then? After the game, Jordan Willis waves the guys them to all get tickets for the next home game. Okay, what happens then? After the game, Jordan Willis waves the guys off and crashes on the couch. Willis has known two of the men since they were in high school and the other as a friend. Willis wakes up later and doesn't see the guys, so he assumes they took off and heads to bed.

He leaves the doors unlocked so the guys can come and go as they please. Okay, right there. Back to you, Jen Smith, joining us from Daily Mail. He leaves the doors unlocked, but when the fiance got there, everything was locked up tight. Very, very strange. And I want to go back to his story

about when he goes to sleep, when they leave. This has changed quite a few times since this story came across all of our guests now he has an attorney who I spoke with yesterday wait a minute did you say he's lawyered up he is lawyered up Nancy okay so initially he claimed I left them all to hang out in the living room and I go upstairs to bed now the story is I waved them goodbye, saw them out the house, then returned to the couch where I crashed, then at some stage went from the couch to my bedroom. And sometime after that, he believes, they came back to hang out because they didn't want to go elsewhere to a bar. And that's when he's claiming there was whatever happened, happened.

But this timeline is very strange and it's changed a lot. I mean, he says, I asked him, well, how did they get back in? If you've gone to bed? Oh, I left the doors unlocked. But like you rightly point out, when the fiance shows up two days later, she can't get in the house. Okay. Wait. One of the stories is that they watched the game,

they made plans to buy tickets for the next game, and the three friends left. And he went to sleep on the sofa, then later went to his bed. The other story is that he went to bed, and he left them all down there partying. Is that right? Or is he saying they left and then they came back? Yeah, that's right.

The initial story was, and this is coming from his lawyer, that he went to bed, leaving them there. And then it changed yesterday to, no, no, no, I misspoke. What I meant to say was he waved them off, they left. He then fell asleep on the couch and then later goes up to bed. And they must have come back somehow. So that's a very significant shift in narrative about the night in question. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. You know what's interesting?

To Dr. Jory L. Croson joining us, psychologist, former law enforcement, now faculty at St. Leo University and consultant with the Blue Wall Institute. Dr. Jory, thank you for being with us. You know, I remember distinctly, crystal clear, the last time I saw my fiance alive, the day he was murdered. He drove out of my driveway. I was living with my parents. He held his left arm out of his car on his way back where he lived in Athens and waved at me. That's the last time I saw him. I remember the last time I saw my dad before he passed away. But this guy seems to have a hard time remembering exactly when he saw his friends alive. They're all dead now. Yeah, there's, I would take two different perceptions of this, you know, that he's changing his story as one, and he may have used like a sleep aid, you know, and the sleep aid helps

him go to sleep, but it also kind of affects memory, the ability to form memories. And that comes from, you know, once you get into a deep sleep, that's where memories are really getting organized and arranged sleep. Certain medications like the ambient, there's been a lot of research about ambient behavior, people falling asleep, getting up and doing things and not remembering them. Are you talking about him taking some sort of a sleep aid or some type of medicine like cough medicine that would make him groggy in some ambulance? Yes.

Okay. You know what? I want to follow up on that. Jen Smith, DailyMetal.com. aid or any type of medication that would make him, let me just say groggy, as a vernacular for some ambulance state inducer. Nothing so far, Nancy. So one of the questions I asked his attorney yesterday was specifically, were there any drugs involved in the evening? Were there any drugs taken by the group, by Jordan in the house? He refused to answer. But so far, nothing about any of us, just say Robitussin? No, nothing like that.

I mean, no Benadryl? No mention of anything. He did mention that they had been drinking, but nothing about any kind of sleep aid or other types of, you know, legal drugs, nothing like that. Is anyone remembering the so-called cough syrup killer who claimed he was some amulet when he murdered his wife. Take a listen to our cut 17. This is Matthew Phelps desperately calling 911. Tell me exactly what happened. I think I killed my wife.

What do you mean by that? What happened? I had a dream. And then I turned on the lights and she's dead on the floor. How? How? I have blood all over me and there's a bloody knife on the bed. And I think I did it. You think you did it? Hell yeah, you did it. Listen. Okay, is she awake at all right now? What makes you think she's dead? Is she awake? She got breathed.

Okay. Oh my God. Okay, do you think she is beyond any help i don't know i don't i'm too scared to get too close to her okay just stay on the phone with me sir i'm i'm here with you i'm here with you i'm so scared i'm scared yes sydney you roll your eyes. She rolled her eyes almost the same time I rolled my eyes. Hey, can you find out how many times he stabbed her, Sid? Okay, but wait, but wait, but before you do that, it ain't over yet. Have you noticed how calm he is? Yeah, I think she's dead, but I'm afraid to touch her? Really? Okay, more. Chorus eating, cough and cold, Chorus eating HP, cough and cold, because I know it can make you feel good.

So, a lot of times I can't sleep at night. Okay. I took some. All right, no. Okay, Robert Jackson, you're not guilty. Chorus eating HP, you're on the docket. Sidney found out from me how many times he had stabbed his wife. Does anybody just even want to guess?

You know, let me throw it to you, Justin Boardman. I ain't gone to you yet. Wild guess. How many times? Don't look it up. I'm not looking it up. Yeah, I'm guessing 24. Okay, good guess.

Because I was thinking 19. Dr. Kendall Crowns, you haven't looked it up, have you? I have not. Okay, I had a feeling that laid back Dr. Kendall Crowns had not looked it up. Just give me a wild guess. How many times did he stab his wife while he was asleep? And for those of you that can't see me, I'm absolutely using air quotas. How many times? Just throw it out there, Dr. Crowns. 56. Good guess. One hundred and twenty three. One hundred and twenty three stab wounds. And he slept through the whole thing. Take a listen to Dave Mack. Yeah, right. CrimeOnline.com.

Matthew Phelps is a 29 year old Bible college graduate with a fascination for the movie American Psycho. He calls 9-1-1 just after one in the morning, claiming his wife Lauren has been stabbed. He tells police he took some cold medicine with quercetin and went to sleep. When he woke up, his wife was dead and a knife was on the bed. Lauren Phelps had been stabbed more than 100 times, and even though they find blood evidence at the scene, investigators determined that Phelps cleaned up a lot of the blood before he made the 911 call. During their investigation, police find out Phelps has told friends he wonders what it would be like to kill someone, and he likes to take cold medicine for fun. Phelps is charged with first-degree murder, and after trying to use the cold medicine defense, he pleads guilty and is sentenced to life in prison

without parole. So, Dr. Jory Croson, I'm so glad that you brought up maybe he had, what, Benadryl? Yeah, something like that. Don't care. Don't care. And as Jen Smith is telling us, there's been no mention of any sleep aid whatsoever. So, let's get back to what really happened. Who is this guy? Who is the homeowner, as he has been described, Jordan Willis? Take a listen to investigative reporter Rachel Bonilla with CrimeOnline.com. Jordan Willis is an HIV researcher and protein scientist who lives and works in his home in Kansas City, Missouri. Willis is an accomplished scientist whose research into COVID and HIV has been praised in the medical world. In interviews, he describes his two pit bull mixes, Sadie and Daisy, as the light of his life. Okay. Joining me is a renowned medical examiner, the chief medical examiner in Tarrant County.

That's Fort Worth. Lecturer, University of Texas, Austin and Texas Christian University Medical School, Dr. Kendall Crowns. Dr. Crowns, thank you for being with us. What is a protein scientist? A protein scientist, they are the people that work with developing immunizations and things of that nature. They're working at like kind of more cellular, molecular level with the actual proteins that make up our bodies. Okay, could you just stop right there? I learned a lot of Latin phrases in law school,

but nothing about what you just said. What? Just slow down. Speed limit 75 mph. Okay, please. What? Protein scientist is basically someone who is looking at very detailed minute molecular things that are associated with the body they're often associated with developing immunizations and figuring out how viruses work things of that nature he sounds brilliant right i'm to figure out to research and develop advancements in covid 19 immunizations and vaccines and for hiv i mean am i getting that right jen smith yeah exactly so that was a huge amount of his research. He celebrated in the field, given plenty of interviews,

you know, a great education, Nancy, a really promising young scientist by all accounts. Okay, so can we get back to the three dead bodies? One on the porch. Let's get back to what happened. Take a listen now to our friend friend Nicole Parton, Crime Online. Seeing a body on the back porch still screaming Jordan Willis' name, Clayton McGinney's fiance calls police.

Officers arrive to find Willis in his underwear with an empty glass of wine in hand, according to the victim's families. The other two bodies were then found in the backyard. Jordan Willis tells police he has no idea what happened. Okay, Justin Boardman joining me. Former detective, West Valley City PD, Special Victims Unit. Now with Boardman training and consulting. Yes, ma'am.

Justin, you're joining us out of Kansas. Was there what? Was there any snow on that day that would have been Jan 7? You know, there was some snow. The reports say that there was like an inch or two, just barely a skiff, if you will. Okay, let me absorb what you just said. Because if there were three feet of snow and there was a body under there, maybe I could accept that the homeowner, Jordan Willis, didn't see it. Did you say a skiff? A what? A skiff.

A skiff. So an interstue of snow. So not enough to cover a body to where you would not see it. Much less one on the back porch. Right, especially one on the back porch and then others out in the yard. When you look at the photographs from some of the articles, it has without the snow, but pictures of the backyard, there isn't any brush back there. It's pretty plain.

Is that true, Jen Smith? Is Justin Boardorman correct? He's joining us from Kansas. What can you tell me? Yeah, I mean, it was pretty, I think the temperature on Jan 7th went to freezing, you know, 32 Fahrenheit, but no indication of huge piles of snow

that would have concealed bodies. And, you know, 32 Fahrenheit, if that was going to kill you, you'd have to be out there for a very long time. You'd have to be nutritionally compromised and severely dehydrated as well i think why would they just be out there for that long do we have a cod yet jen smith cause of death no we don't and obviously this is going to really put the pieces of the puzzle together the medical examiner is yet to reveal cause of death any form

of even estimation about what happened and And crucially, we don't have toxicology yet for the three men who were found dead. And that could explain a huge amount. But right now, no answer. I don't know that it's really explaining anything for me, because even if they had smoked some pot, even if they had had some alcohol, that would not make them, that would not induce them to stay out in freezing temperatures and not come back in. That's right. Or get in their car or bang on the door, anything. That's right. Yeah. What more do we know? Listen.

On Monday, January 8th, Jordan Willis claims he did not leave his home at all. He would normally have to take his dogs, Sadie and Daisy, outside to do their business, but they're all staying at his dad's place. Without having to take the dogs out and not leaving the house for any reason, Jordan Willis doesn't realize his buddy's cars are still parked outside his house. Let me understand something. Jen Smith joining us from DailyMail.com who has been breaking the news on this story. So when the cops get there, he saunters in in his boxer shorts holding a glass of wine. Yeah, he's holding an empty wine glass. Now the victim's family took this to mean he was still drinking or drinking that morning. He claims it was a leftover empty glass from the night before that he was using for water.

But he is, you know, by the looks of things, had just got out of bed. And his thoughts are short. When the police arrive, he lets them in and they find the three other bodies. And that's January 9th, correct? That's January 9th, yes. And the party was January 7th. The party begins at 9 p. the party was January 7th. The party begins at 9pm on January 7th. We know that Willis says that the others

left or he went to bed at around 2am. So we have all day on, of course, the remainder of the night, January 7th to 8th, all day January 8th, the night of January 8th, and then the final discovery is on January 9th in the morning. Man, I'd be all over this looking for

receipts. I'd be looking for a digital record. What about a James Shell nut? You are a former cop before you turned defense attorney. I would be all up in his text. Did he order in? Did he do an Instacart? Did he leave? Did he leave the home? You didn't see his friend's car still parked there? I'm just having a hard time believing this. I agree 100%. Did he communicate with anybody at all? Number two, you know, when you think about phones nowadays and technology nowadays, a lot of the times you can tell if someone actually reads your text. So even if he didn't proactively contact anyone, is there any indication that he read other people's messages that he received, whether it's

on Facebook, whether it's on his phone or some other method? You're right. You're absolutely right about those messages. I was thinking, did he go out for pizza? Did he leave the house? Did he go to an ATM? But we know more now. Listen to Rachel Bonilla and Dave Mack at Crime Online.

As news starts to spread of the three friends freezing to death in the backyard while their friend is asleep inside, the families of the victims begin to speak out and ask questions. The biggest question for Jordan Willis is what happened. Next was why didn't you answer calls, text messages, and social media messages from family and friends of the three men. The Daily Mail reports Willis insists he spent the next two days in his home not thinking anything of the fact that his friend's cars were still outside and only learned they died when the fiance of one of the men broke into the house on January 9th in the hopes of finding him. The changing stories are a problem and Jen Smith Daily Mail do we know as shall not point it out whether he was reading those texts and those uh online messages yeah i mean this is going to be huge once it's properly probed he says that he did not see

them we don't know yet the messages predominantly were on facebook messenger which you can tell whether or not someone has read your message. Now, the families haven't indicated specifically whether or not they got that, you know, read receipt. But you could, for the sake of argument, see that the relatives of, you know, your dead friend were trying to contact you and just not simply not open the message. We don't know is the answer to your question, Nancy, whether or not he opened the messages. All we know is he says he didn't see them and only saw them after the police came to his home on January 9th and the bodies were found. I'm curious as to what his reaction was

when he realized all three of his friends are dead. Well, he's been, he himself actually has not spoken to the media. He has actually moved out of this house now. He's deleted all of his social media accounts. So all of the communication about how he's feeling, what he's thinking is coming through this attorney. And the attorney tells me that he is, you know, devastated, anxiously awaiting more information from the police about how his friends died, insistence that he wanted no harm to come to them, that they had the plans to go to the next Chiefs game. But he himself is yet to make any kind of public statements or give any interviews about

this. I mean, I think all of us have so many unanswered questions that if he just answers them with the truth, it would explain a lot but he hasn't said anything he's relying on his attorney to do the talking for him i find that curious as well i'm also curious if he's going to show up at their funerals guys it's not the first time someone claims they slept through a death take a listen to our cut 16 from Crime Online. 42-year-old Barbara Woods is at home in bed asleep with her husband when her son-in-law, Kenneth Parks, sneaks into the bedroom, stabs and chokes her husband, then turns his rage on her using a tire iron to beat her

about the head and a knife to stab her four times, causing her death. Parks is charged with the murder and at trial, his attorney claims that on the night of the killing, Kenneth Parks was plunged into a deep, deep sleep. His next memory is seeing his mother-in-law's face. The attorney said he then regained consciousness and fled the house and drove to a nearby police station. According to his attorney, the 24-year-old Kenneth Parks was sleepwalking as he drove the 14 miles to his mother-in-law's house and killed her in bed, wounding his father-in-law. The jury agreed, and Parks was acquitted. That's true.

Barbara Woods at home, asleep with her husband, her son-in-law, drives 14 miles to their home, he says, in his sleep, murders the mother-in-law and father, beating them with a tire iron, killing the mother-in-law, wounding the father-in-law, and he was acquitted. That's right, Kenneth Parks. I'm having a hard time letting that soak in, but there's more. Take a listen to our cut 21. Living in a three-story home in Buffalo, New York, while attending the University of Buffalo, Elena Zabel and her roommates go to a party at the Sigma Chi fraternity not far from their house. One of the roommates headed home earlier than the rest, and by the time Zabel made it back to the house, the door was locked and she didn't have a key. Zabel climbs through a bathroom window and notices a weird smell. Calling out for her roommate,

she doesn't get a reply, but hears heavy breathing and thinks her roommate is asleep, so she goes to bed herself. Her roommate isn't sleeping. At that very moment, she's being brutally attacked. Hours later, Zabel awakes and finds her roommate clinging to life. 911 is called, and the roommate is rushed to the hospital, where she spends months in a coma and a recovery that was very long. Many people question why it took so long to call for help. Hours between the attack and the call for help. Four years later, the serial rapist was convicted of rape and attempted murder. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

Jen Smith, one very disturbing facet of this case, three friends dead in the backyard. You don't answer texts, messages, phone calls for now three days, Jan 7, 8, and 9, when police get there on the 9th. But the changing of the stories, that shouldn't change. What happened should not change, Jen Smith. What is the most disturbing change in the story? I mean, for me, it has to be the fact that initially the story was he left them inside the house, hanging out downstairs.

And then the second iteration of the story is, no, no, no, they left. I waved them goodbye. And then at some stage, they must have come back. One thing I do want to say, and this goes back to the fact that Jordan Willis hasn't yet spoken to the media himself. Changing stories could be down to a really ill-equipped or just incompetent attorney, right? All we've heard on Jordan Willis' behalf is coming from his attorney.

Now, if Jordan Willis has his story straight and he's letting his lawyer do all the talking and the lawyer is changing the story, it's in his best interest to get out there and set the record straight. But if it is the case that he's been changing his story to his lawyer, who has been contemporaneously changing it to the press, that's going to be hugely problematic for him down the lane if there's a criminal case. Guys, he says he slept through the whole thing and had no idea what was going on. But others disagree. Many others disagree. Take a listen to our 14 with Nicole Parton.

John Pisserno, an attorney representing Willis, said his client had no idea his friends were dead until police knocked on his door. The New York Post shared a Facebook post from Kaylee Letier, who wrote, My husband banged on his door for 20 minutes. Letier continued, My friend banged on his door and then busted a window and yelled and announced her presence. While she's inside and steal nothing from him. Okay, this is what I'm trying to figure out. Jen Smith, do the relatives and friends of the victims believe Jordan Willis?

No, absolutely not. Under no circumstances, they say that none of this adds up. They need more information. And they are devastated at not only their deaths, but the lack of information from him, someone who had apparently been friends with him since they were at high school, so would know their families, and from the police.

You know, from the get-go, the police said, nothing to see here, no foul play, we're going to carry on our investigation, but we have no reason to believe anyone is in danger, nor do we have any reason to believe Jordan Willis did anything wrong. Making that kind of statement before you have a cause of death,

they may have been a bit hasty there. And the families are, you know, rightfully questioning why they are so comfortable stating that there is no foul play when the investigation isn't complete. We don't even have a cause of death yet. Dr. Kendall Crown's chief medical examiner, Tarrant County, Fort Worth, if the bodies became frozen, would that affect finding out a COD cause of death? No, actually the cooling or the freezing of the bodies will slow down decomposition and actually

prevent decomposition so that it will maintain the body itself. So it won't alter cause of death at all. One thing you have to think of with three individuals dying suddenly, there has to be a commonality between all three of them. And an environmental factor, the fact that they're all healthy, I just can't think that they wouldn't get themselves out of a cold situation. So, you know, could it be drugs? Could it be something else? And you also have to throw in there, you have a research scientist and his three friends

are all now dead. It's all very odd. Yes, odd. There's definitely smoke. But is there fire? I believe that you can sleep through something, a crime happening in the next room or right above you. What about the roommates of the Idaho students in the Brian Koberger murder case? Take a listen to Dave Mack.

Dylan Mortensen and Bethany Funk were both home when Brian Koberger allegedly snuck into their home in the early morning hours and stabbed Maddie Mogan, Kayla Gonzalez, Xana Cronodle and Ethan Chapin to death in their beds. The New York Post reported the two women were texting each other while the murders were happening and Dylan Mortensen came face to face with the killer right after the attack and gave a description of the alleged murderer saying he was wearing black and had bushy eyebrows. This information caused a lot of online attacks with people wondering why if they were home and awake during the attacks and Mortensen saw the man dressed in black, why did it take hours before police were called? We're waiting to hear answers to that. There have been

a lot of suggestions online amongst trolls that the two surviving roommates actually had something to do with their murders. That's not true. I can emphatically state that is not true. These two girls had nothing to do with those four murders. But what about this case? Okay, Dr. Jory Corazan, psychologist, former law enforcement, now faculty, St. Leo University. What do you think? Really, there's got to be a commonality, something in their deaths. It may be like drugs or something, some kind of a drug that OD'd possibly, but certain types of drugs, like fentanyl, you could tell from the bodies possibly, but if they're frozen, they're going to be just kind of locked in that state. No, we don't have any reason

to think these guys were using drugs. Sheldon, what do you think? All right. I'm in total agreement that there's a commonality. You know, when you talk about drugs, you know, you also talk about... Okay, you know what? Forget the commonality. All right. That's not really telling me anything. Yes, they probably all were killed the same way. Well, we've talked a lot about drugs. I haven't talked a lot about drugs because nobody said they were using drugs. Well, you know, we've talked about whether or not something could have been ingested. And the bottom line is it could be drugs, but it could be a poison as well. I'm sorry. Am I the only one that sees the elephant in the room? A man claims he's totally unaware of search efforts for three of his friends. They are there for three days, Jan 7, 8, and 9.

His story is changing. They're dead. One's on the back porch. Hello, you can see it from inside. The other two are out in the garden and he says he knew nothing. What? That doesn't make sense to me. Jen Smith, could you help me please? I mean, you want me to believe three guys go in the backyard and drop dead? No, I don't think that's what happened. And I think what we were trying to get at here is both could be he could have, you know, lied about not knowing anything. And they could have died of some kind of accidental overdose, you know, different type of recreational drug, laced with fentanyl, THC, synthetic drugs. Is there a scenario in which all of the men are taking drugs

perhaps supplied by Jordan Willis or someone else in which the three of them end up dying and Jordan Willis panics and doesn't alert anybody? Is that a possibility? We don't know. Now, I want to empathically say that the police are not saying that that is what's

happened, but he could have concealed the fact that his friend died of an accidental drug overdose without actually murdering them or doing something more violent to them just for the sake of panic and protecting his science career. police are standing there. I mean, have you ever seen the program Cops? Because there'll be a guy sitting in his easy chair in the den, throwing back a beer. And cops come running through the house and he just watches them go by and keeps watching TV like that's normal. I mean, this guy strolls in in his underwear with a wine glass. I don't think that's a good look. One thing that is to his defense is that there was no obvious sign of foul play on the three bodies. They weren't shot. They weren't bludgeoned dead. There was nothing to indicate they had been murdered. So how do you wake up and your three friends' cars are parked outside your house, your phones are full of messages and texts looking for your three friends in there on your back porch and in your garden and you don't know?

How did that happen? Of course, Jordan Willis, through his lawyer, insists he had nothing to do with this. And in our jurisprudence system, he is always presumed innocent until proving guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. We wait as justice unfolds. Goodbye, friend. This is an I Heart Podcast.