Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Friendly fishing trip turns bloody massacre

Episode Date: July 23, 2020

Three lifelong friends in Frostproof, Florida, head to the lake to go night fishing, but end up dead. Events at a Dollar General before the trip sets the massacre in motion, but why? Joining Nancy Grace today: Sheriff Grady Judd - Polk County Florida Lara Yeretsian - Los Angeles, Ca, Criminal defense attorney, worked extensively on many high profile criminal cases, including Michael Jackson and Scott Peterson Caryn Stark - NYC Psychologist, www.carynstark.com  Karen Smith - Los Angeles, Ca Forensics Expert, Host of "Shattered Souls" podcast.  Dr. Tim Gallagher - Medical Examiner State of Florida Ray Caputo Lead News Anchor for Orlando's Morning News, 96.5 WDBO Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. How does a fishing trip between three buddies, end up in a bloody massacre. And not only that, in an area with virtually zero crime rate. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. Take a listen to this. The parents of 27-year-old Brandon Rollins, who was shot and left bloodied in the roadway in Polk County over the weekend.

His father recalling his final moments because he got the phone call from his son not long after he was shot. Cyril Rollins says the moment he realized his son was calling, he knew it was bad news. He don't never call my phone at all unless he have trouble or something going down. When he answered, his fears were realized. He said, help daddy, help daddy. Cyril knew his 27-year-old son, Brandon Rollins, was out fishing on Lake Streetie with two friends, 23-year-old Damian Tillman and 30-year-old Kevin Springfield.

He rushed to the scene where he found his son shot and bloodied in the roadway. Well, when I got there, I didn't have a phone at all. I didn't know what to do. He was talking and all of that. I said, son, I got to leave you. I got to go get some help. He was pretty bad. He was too bloody. Can you imagine a mother or a father's nightmare? Finding your son beaten, bloody, dying, and you have to leave to go call for help? Dies in the interim? That is part of the nightmare the parents of these three young men are going through,

who go out on an innocent fishing trip and end up dead. Our question is why? With me, an all-star panel to break it down and put it back together again. Renowned attorney Laura Uretzian joining us from L.A., high-profile criminal defense attorney. New York psychologist joining us, Karen Stark. You can find her at karenstark.com. Karen Smith joining us from LA, forensics expert and the star of a new podcast, Shattered Souls, the medical examiner for the entire state of Florida, Dr. Tim Gallagher.

But first, to Ray Caputo, lead news anchor for WDBO joining us out of Florida. Ray Caputo, the first thing I want to figure out and establish is where is Frost Proof, Florida? Well, it's in Polk County. It's about an hour and a half south of Orlando. And if you look at it on a map, it's this neat little place. It's this town that sits on a narrow strip of land between two lakes. It doesn't have a lot of residents. Everybody seems to know each other. The anti-Copacan flag is flying out in front. Just a very idealistic place. Well, I don't know what you mean by that, because I've got an American flag out in front of my house as well. Hold on. Ray Caputo, while I respect your journalistic integrity, joining me right now is an expert on where is Frost Proof Florida and what it's all about.

The elected sheriff, Sheriff Grady Judd, now joining me from Polk County, Florida. Sheriff, thank you for being with us. We were just kicking around for everybody across the country listening right now that may not have heard of Frost Proof Florida. Tell me about it. Nancy, it's God's country. It's at the south end of our county, which is 2,000 square miles, our county as that is. We have over 700,000 people in the county, but Frost Proof is at the far south end. And when you think about it, you think about the idealistic place you'd like to live, like the Mayberry.

Well, Frost Proof is Mayberry. Well, Frostproof is Mayberry. Like Ray said, everybody knows everybody. So it was a total shock to the community when this horrific deed occurred because there's nothing but good people, orange groves, cow pastures, and small business. You know, Sheriff Grady Judd, you reminded me so much of where I grew up, not really even in a city, unincorporated Bibb County in the middle, literally the geographic middle of Georgia. And I'm pretty sure my parents wouldn't even lock the doors at night. We had four neighbors in total. And that was a place in a time where after school, I could ride my bike until my mom or dad would blow the car horn

in the distance. So I'd hear the chimes and the church steeple. And that's when I would know it was time to go home because it was safe. There was no crime in that area. Basically, out in the middle of nowhere, some people would put it, but as you put it, God's country. You know, Sheriff Grady Judd, a lot of questions have been asked about these three young men, Damian Tillman, Kevin Springfield, Brandon Rollins, who went out fishing at night. Now, is that common in the Frost Proof, Florida area? There's nothing more wholesome than three best friends fishing on Friday night near Frost Proof, Florida.

And it's called night fishing. They were catfishing. That's what they were doing. And it's a favorite place that they go often. Well, you know, Sheriff, there's nothing better than a fried catfish, unless you want to go with a fried mullet. You ever have that? I have, but I'd rather have smoked mullet and fried catfish.

Now, I don't know why I'm talking about fishing. Yes, I do know why. Because, as you said, what's more wholesome than that? They're not out clubbing where everybody's drunk and doing a lot of cocaine, getting in fights. They're not there. They're not out at 3 a.m. driving drunk. The three of them have been friends for a long time and have gone night fishing. And then somehow everything goes sideways and it turns literally into a bloodbath. Now,

a moment ago, you heard our friend at Fox 13, Jennifer Holton. Now take a listen again to Fox 13. Cyril hopped back into his car, driving to a convenience store to call 911 and then rushed back to the scene. He says that's when he heard his son's phone ringing inside of his truck. The seat, it was covered on blood. And I got the phone and it was his mama. I said, please, Daddy. I said, I'm just dying. Get out of here, did I?

But all three men were dead before EMS arrived. We still don't have a rest at this moment. Sheriff Judd saying Monday investigators have received well over 100 tips, but they're hoping now that an increased reward makes a difference. There's a reward of $30,000 at this moment in time just for information that leads to the arrest of these horrific criminals. An arrest that Cyril says could bring justice for his family. That was my only son. I'll never have a grand another grandchild. Nothing. My life is gone. Oh, my stars. Karen Stark, psychologist joining us from New York. When I heard the father speaking, you knew my dad very well, Karen, from all the times we all

visited together in New York. Something about his voice reminded me so much of my dad. I can't even imagine losing your child and being there, trying to save your child, having to leave your child to go call for help, and calling your wife and saying, our son is dying. I don't know how a parent would ever get over that. Well, Nancy, he won't get over that. I mean, just as we listen to it and you're hearing it, it's just so, it's tragic. It really is. And that he, and you hear, I mean, it's so clear that this was an untenable situation.'s terrible, terrible. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we were talking about three young guys, great guys, three best friends.

Think of your child, and they're two best friends. Think of your child and their two best friends. I can name mine right now. I have to drag John David off of the computer at night where he and his two favorite little buddies are playing games online. They swim together. They fish together. They go bicycling together. They do everything together. Same with my daughter, Lucy. She's got two little besties. And to think these guys grow up, they go fishing, and they all three end up dead? And what this father has got to live through? Take a listen to our friend Sheriff Grady Judd speaking.

His father, who was home in bed asleep, heard the call from his son, knew where they were fishing, jumped up, got dressed, drove here immediately. He's about 10 minutes away in the Frost Proof community. When he arrived, he saw this horrific scene of where all these young men had been shot up. In Brandon's father's excitement to run to and help his son, he forgot his cell phone at home. So now he's out in the middle, as you can see, of no place without any communications. So he hopped back in his vehicle and went to Sunray, which is on Highway 27, ran into the convenience store. They all know each other in this area. Said, my son needs help. 17-year-old young lady, who's the daughter of the convenience store attendant at that time jumps in the vehicle with Brandon's father and they come back to the scene.

You know, I want to go to you, Sheriff Grady, but I've got to ask Karen Stark another question. Karen, what is it about that fact that he gets all the way there and he's forgotten his cell phone that just is like a knife in my heart. It reminds me, my uncle, my mother's only sibling, had a heart attack. Early 50s. And his wife, my Aunt Shirley, was trying to race to the scene and her car broke down. She could not get the thing to start.

She didn't get there in time to see my uncle. Just some twist, some odd twist of fate that makes a tragedy even more poignant. What is that? There's got to be something in your psychological repertoire that will explain why that's just like a twist of the knife. Well, yeah, I'm thinking, Nancy, that it's like post-traumatic stress because he will always relive that and think about the fact that what would have happened if he had had his phone, if someone had been able to get there in time. And that, I mean, there's a natural tendency when someone dies, I think everyone can relate to

this, where you start to think if I had done this, if I had done that, and of course you couldn't, but you start to think about that. But here's a real life situation where he's going to wonder if I had had my phone, would I have saved my son? Guys, three best friends go night fishing and all end up dead. To Sheriff Grady Judd, special guest joining us from Polk County, Florida. Sheriff Judd, again, thank you for being with us in the midst of this investigation, taking time to be with us. We really appreciate it. So, Sheriff Judd, you're saying this is kind of out in the middle of nowhere. And I mean that in a good way because that's the way I grew up.

So I'm trying to figure out the dad gets out there and what is it that he sees? What does he find out? And he was woken up in bed, correct, as his son calls him? Absolutely. His son called him, we think, before the shooting occurred, and all his dad heard was help. So when his dad rushed to the scene because he knew where the lake was and where they normally fished, when he got there, the first thing he saw was his son on the ground shot and dying. And one of his buddies that was in the truck with him laying on the ground on the other side with his feet propped up in the truck, dying.

And the third one that was shot, Damien, they threw him up into the bed of the truck. For what reason, we don't know. So he drives up and he sees his son and two best friends in life all shot down, massacred, shot multiple times. It was absolutely horrible. Guys, we're talking about the unusual and bizarre deaths of three best friends. To Dr. Tim Gallagher, medical examiner, state of Florida, I'm thinking about this dad and what he's going to go through the rest of his life. Based on the injuries his son suffered, do you think if the dad had called 15 minutes earlier, 20 minutes earlier for an ambulance, could he have been saved or was there no chance? Well, it's difficult to say, Nancy. It would depend on the extent of his wounds and the amount of times that he was shot. Of course, when the dad arrived, the son was barely alive, you know, and as the

sheriff stated, this is God's country. And typically ambulances aren't immediately available in that area. So the time that ambulance would take to travel there and to stabilize him and to bring him to the hospital, most likely he would not have survived his injuries. And Sheriff Judd, that's no offense to the local EMTs. There's just a lot of ground to cover in a sparsely populated area. I've only had the opportunity to be in an ambulance one time in Florida, and I went into early labor. And I was way off on St. George's Island, and an EMT had to come all the way from Tallahassee. It took a long time to get there, but when he got there, he was a one-eyed ambulance driver named Elvis. I'll never forget

him. And thanks to him, the twins didn't come early and it saved their lives. So when we're saying it may have taken a while for the ambulance to get there, what were the injuries to Brandon Rollins, Sheriff Judd? How many times had he been shot? Well, first and foremost, you know, you don't station ambulances out in the middle of the woods. Right. Because there's no one there to service. So there's drive time. But when they arrived, Brandon had multiple gunshot wounds. And the doctor is exactly correct.

I truly, and I've done this 48 years with the sheriff's office and as a kid I worked on the ambulance I truly believe had he sustained those injuries in the emergency room lobby he still survived the injuries how he survived them long enough to have final words with his father is just miraculous to me. Guys, what makes this so bizarre is we are now learning a chance encounter at a local Dollar General may have set in action a course of events that ended in the three murders of three young guys. A chance encounter. Joining me, Ray Caputo, Dr. Gallagher, Karen Smith, Karen Stark, and Laura Uretzian from L.A., along with Sheriff Grady Judd.

You know, Laura Uretzian, high-profile criminal defense attorney in L.A., have you noticed, as I did when I was prosecuting and even now covering so many felonies, the smallest thing can tip off a series of events like dominoes that you'd never put together. And here, apparently, a chance encounter at a Dollar General ended up in three murders. It's not that uncommon, Laura. Exactly. I mean, we see that every day. Not every single crime that happens is necessarily planned out to happen at a particular time.

A specific incident can trigger someone who's already volatile, who's got anger issues, or who's got a long rap sheet to explode and do something as horrific as we have now in Frost Proof, Florida. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. What happened to these three innocent and unarmed guys? They're out fishing. The next thing you know, they are dead, massacred. Take a listen to Sheriff Grady Judd, Polk County, Florida.

What happened, Sheriff, in that Dollar General? It was exceptionally bizarre. We went back to the Dollar General because we found a bag in Damien's vehicle where he'd shopped. We pulled the tape, and Damien was standing in line to check out. Directly behind him is a guy that we learned later is Tony Wiggins. Behind him is a guy called Robert Wiggins. They're brothers. Damien is actually having what appears to be an absolutely total civil conversation with Tony, who we know as TJ. Now, keep in mind, this small community, they know each

other. They're all the same age range. They all went to elementary and high school together. Civil conversation, no argument, nothing. As a matter of fact, that's backed up by WFLA news reporter Stacey DeSilva. Listen, Sheriff. Everybody wanted to know, was this random or were these men targeted? The sheriff said today that a chance encounter at a frost-proof Dollar General led to a massacre. Three people are now in custody. They have solved the case. Sheriff Grady Judd offering answers about a doomed Polk County fishing trip. This is the guy who directly did the damage.

His name's Tony Wiggins. He's known as TJ. The sheriff says Friday night Wiggins, his girlfriend Mary Whitmore and his brother Robert went to this Dollar General in Frost Proof. In front of them in line to check out was Damian Tillman, one of the victims. Video shows Tillman and Wiggins appearing to have a cordial conversation. Tillman mentions to the clerk he's meeting up with Kevin Springfield to go fishing. Guys, that's exactly what the sheriff is telling us. And to you, Sheriff Grady Judd, you were just telling us that these guys knew each other from high school? That's how far back they go?

Absolutely. They were raised in the community together. So what happened in the line at Dollar General? It's interesting. When Damien gets up to check out, of course, he knows the guy who's the clerk. He tells the clerk, hey, I'm going fishing. I'm going fishing with Kevin, and I'm going fishing with Brandon. And they have small talk about, well, good luck fishing, that sort of thing. And he exits the store.

And then T.J. checks out, along with his brother, Robert, and they exit the store. T.J. asks Robert, who did Damien say he was going fishing with? He said, Kevin. He said, let's go to the lake. Right there. So he immediately directed his brother. Right there. I don't get it, Sheriff.

I don't get it. And I guess I need to shrink on this one, too. How if someone came up to me and went, even a friend, hey, let's go to the lake and get these guys. Oh, H-E-L-L? No. What is it? And to you, Laura Uretzian, again, a high-profile lawyer joining me out of L.A.,

how many times have you seen someone with no rap sheet go along with a cockamamie, half-cocked idea, and they all end up going to jail, something they would never have done on their own. We see it all the time. I mean, in this case, you've got Robert, who's only got a misdemeanor, from what I understand, and Mary Whitmore has nothing in her background, never been convicted of anything.

And you start wondering, really, how much the plan or what was coming that they really anticipate or see it coming. They may just, I mean, you never know what's going on in their minds. They're going along with Tony, who's probably leading the whole thing, knowing the kind of rap issues he's had over the years. I'm sure he's got an anger issue as well. And they end up at the scene. And from what we understand, Tony is the one doing all of it.

He's the one who shoots the three men. He's the one arguing. Everything is done by Tony. The rest are basically, as far as the initial crime, killing the three best friends, it's Tony. The two others are basically watching. To Sheriff Grady Judd, Polk County, Florida, elected sheriff,

Sheriff, the law says that the law presumes you intend the natural consequences of your act. So when you get into the car with a guy saying, I'm going to go kill them, hand me my gun, and you're part and parcel of it, the law presumes you intend the natural consequences of that act. And I would tell juries a million times, Sheriff, it's like I take a fine piece of china and hold it up

and then just throw it to the cement floor. The law presumes I intend to break it, to shatter it. So when you go along with someone who's getting his gun and going for revenge, the law presumes you intend what's going to happen. And not only that, Sheriff, for instance, let's just say you and I go do a bank robbery and you just are the driver and I go in and get a wild hair and start shooting the place up and kill a couple of people. You're on the hook for a murder. A murder conspirator. I find it, you know, statistically for Mary Whitmore to go along to be part of a mass murder is very unusual statistically for a woman to do that. So what was the relationship between these three there at the Dollar General

who run into our guys going fishing? What were they to each other, Tony Wiggins, M.J. Whitmore, and William Wiggins? Well, I know T.J. and Robert Wiggins are brothers, age 26 and 21. Who's Mary Whitmore? Mary Whitmore is the girlfriend to T.J. and Robert Wiggins are brothers, age 26 and 21. Who's Mary Whitmore? Mary Whitmore is the girlfriend to T.J., and she bought the ammunition for him at a store up the road, as we say in Polk County, in Lake Wells, just a few days before, because he's a convicted felon and he couldn't buy it. Oh, dear Lord. To you, Ray Caputo, lead news anchor, Orlando Morning News, WDBO, tell me about Tony Wiggins' rap sheet.

It must be pretty bad if you can't go buy any ammo. He puts his girlfriend up to it. What's his rap sheet? It's got to be some type of world record, Nancy. He starts at the tender age of 12, and he's racked up 230 felony convictions. And as an adult, he's spent more time in prison than he's spent as a free man. He's a ticking time bomb, and sadly, you know, this last Friday night is when he exploded killing three innocent young men. Sheriff Judd, what was he doing out walking free to start with?

He's been causing trouble since he's 12. Well, most of his charges were as juveniles. And in the state of Florida, just like across the United States, our juvenile justice system has trouble discerning who were children committing mischief that's criminal and who were prolific criminals as children. And between 12 and 18, he was a prolific criminal. He would commit, he may go do a string of home burglaries or car burglaries all at one time where he'd pick up charges. He had 230 charges, 15 convictions, two trips to the county jail. He spent six of the last eight years

of his life in prison. And when he did this, he was out on bond for breaking a guy's arm in a fight just in March of this year. He stays in trouble. The people in the community, when they heard it, they didn't know about the murder, but who did the murder, but they kept saying, go look at TJ, go look at TJ. Everybody in the community knows he's wild and he's hostile. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Okay, so here's a guy that should never have been out. 230 arrests, 15 convictions, and now three innocent guys are dead.

Young guys, young. 23 years old, Damon Tillman, Kevin Springfield, Brandon Rollins, all dead. Over what? Jackie, play cut nine for me. 9.56 in the evening. Damien is checking out of the store with his product. And cut eight, WFLA News reporter Stacy DeSilva. Listen to this. TJ tells Robert, who's driving, go to the lake.

The sheriff says the suspects show up on Lake Streety Road and see Tillman, Springfield and the third victim, Brandon Rollins. He points the gun at Kevin and TJ says, where's my truck? Kevin goes, I don't know what you're talking about. Yeah, you do. where's my truck? Kevin goes, I don't know what you're talking about. Yeah, you do. Where's my truck? You sold the engine out of my truck. According to the sheriff, Wiggins then shoots and kills Tillman, Rollins, and Springfield. It's estimated, and this is still under investigation, he shoots him nine to ten times between the two of them. To you, Karen Smith joining me out of L.A., forensics expert host, Shattered Souls.

Nine to ten gunshot wounds. It was so bloody. The dad who came to save his son couldn't even see the cell phone. Everything was covered in blood. How do you process a scene like that? This is heartbreaking, first of all, and it's very complex for the crime scene detective. You have tire tracks.

This is a muddy dirt road. You have shoe prints. You have two vehicles left at the scene. You have three bodies. You have multiple gunshot wounds. You have a lot of evidence. So this is a multi-day scene. This is all hands on deck. This is every single fiber of your training and your education coming into play. You have to diagram it. You have to photograph it. You have to collect everything. And I would like to commend them. The Dollar General bag and that receipt, what a great find. That was the start of the timeline that the detectives

needed to follow up. The end of the timeline was Brandon Rollins' phone call to his father. So you have a 10 to 15 minute timeline. The community kicked in, gave the tip. All of that evidence from the crime scene is going to play into this. I think they've got them dead to rights, Nancy. It's a fantastic case. Take a listen to Crime Online's Dave Mack. When detectives located the suspects, they were living in a family compound of camper trailers not far from the murder scene. They were living off the grid with no running water, no electricity, using generators for power. T.J. Wiggins and his girlfriend live in one of the travel trailers. His brother had another. With a search warrant, police found two SKS rifles,

two Mossberg shotguns, and ammunition for both in a gun safe belonging to T.J. Wiggins. The ammunition found there, police say, was the same ammunition fired from the gun in the murders, a Smith & Wesson handgun. Tracing the suspect's movement after the killings, police say the three suspects drove to McDonald's, ordered 10 double cheeseburgers, two McChicken sandwiches, and then went home to eat. The next morning, Robert Wiggins took the truck he was driving to a car wash to get the road clay off. Okay, let me understand something. Sheriff Grady Judd, Polk County, Florida. Special guest joining us. So after these three commit mass murder, they go out and pig out on McDonald's?

Well, I guess you work up a hunger killing people like that. They drove directly to a small town, which is probably 10 miles north of where they were, go through the drive-thru, order 10 double cheeseburgers and two McChickens. Did you hear me? Just crazy. And proceeded to have dinner. Go home and eat, Karen Stark, New York psychologist. When I would try violent crimes, which was every case I ever tried, you know, child molestation, murder, ag assault, ag battery, I couldn't even eat.

And I was just prosecuting the case. I mean, in the mornings before trial, I'd be so keyed up about the evidence, I have to watch Little House on the Prairie before I could go in the court. Then once I started the evidence there's no way I could eat. I'd just sit there at my council table while the jury went to lunch because the evidence would be so upsetting. These people went and stuffed themselves

on double cheese McDonald's. What kind of mind is that? Like they can't remember the three guys they just murdered? It doesn't surprise me at all, Nancy. We're talking about three people who really don't have any kind of feelings. They don't have a conscience. They have no compassion, no response to what they did. So it was an adventure. And they worked up quite an appetite. And that's why they were able to eat and you would not be able to eat because you would be so upset. And they weren't upset at all. They were having a really good time. Karen Smith, LA forensics expert host Shattered Souls podcast. Karen, you heard the type of weapons that were found

in their residence where they were living, quote, off the grid, living off generators. You got Mossbergs, you got SKS rifles. You heard what was used. What do you make of all the different guns these three had in their home? Well, first of all, T.J. Wiggins is a convicted felon, so there's another felony. Chalk that one up. SKS, that is a precursor to the AK-47, holds a 7.62 round. That is a very powerful rifle. Mossberg shotgun, no more needs to be said about that. And then there's a handgun. I don't think that that has been recovered yet. However, they did find ammunition at this trailer that, quote unquoteunquote, matched what was at the scene. Now, that means it's probably the same caliber and the same make, which is a Smith & Wesson.

So that is really strong evidence against T.J. Wiggins and the other two. You know, Sheriff Grady Judd, speaking as a victim of gun violence myself, I hate guns. I hate them. Now, I don't argue with the Constitution. If you have a right to bear arms, have it. But, Sheriff Judd, have you ever heard a rattlesnake? Have you ever

heard one? Absolutely. You know, there's something about that sound that it just gives me a chill. Same thing racking a shotgun. When you hear that, wherever you are, you freeze. Now, why does a guy like this with 230 arrests have shotguns, the precursor to AK-47 for Pete's sake, in his home?

Why? Well, because he likes guns and he doesn't follow the rules, which is more than evident. And when you're as mean and ugly to as many people he's guns and he doesn't follow the rules, which is more than evident. And when you're as mean and ugly to as many people he's mean and ugly to, he feels that he's got to have firearms for self-protection, is my estimation. You know, to Dr. Tim Gallagher, medical examiner for the state of Florida, Dr. Gallagher, you're now hearing that a handgun was used and that about 10 rounds that we know of were fired. What does

that do to the human body? Do you think these three victims felt pain? I'd have to believe that they did, especially knowing that you have a weapon like that pointed at you and the person behind it is ready to pull the trigger. Each victim was shot multiple times and when a bullet goes through a body, it certainly hurts, you know, and I can't expect, even in times of when the adrenaline is running and it's pumping, sometimes that may dull the pain a little bit, but by and large, when a bullet goes through your body and does the damage that it does, breaks the bones, rips the blood vessels, perforates the organs, that incites a lot of pain. I was hoping that they would just go in shock, but I guess not. To Sheriff Grady Judd, Polk County, Florida, elected sheriff.

Sheriff, I'm just sick about it. I'm just sick about what these families are going through how are the families today man see we're all sick about it i've i've done this job my entire adult life i've been in law enforcement 48 years and i've seen horrific scenes before and this ranks right at the very top of all of the ones that I've seen, and I've seen a lot, but I can tell you the family's totally wiped out. They're totally devastated. These are good people, but they're exceptionally poor people.

In fact, they don't have enough money to bury their children or didn't. I asked on the air, can a lot of people give a few dollars? In less than 12 hours, we raised $150,000 to bury these three people that died this senseless death. And these folks, they have to buy clothes to go to a funeral. I mean, they're just really good, poor people. And it breaks my heart. Well, Sheriff Judd, coming from rural middle Georgia, I know exactly the kind of fine people you're talking about. God bless their families. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace Crime Stories signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.