Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Friendly fishing trip turns bloody massacre. Perps face electric chair?

Episode Date: October 30, 2020

Three lifelong friends in Frostproof, Florida, head to the lake for a little night fishing but end up dead. Events at a Dollar General before the trip sets the massacre in motion. Now a prosecutor has said he will be asking for the death penalty.Joining Nancy Grace today: Lara Yeretsian (ya-rhett-see-an), Los Angeles, Ca, Criminal defense attorney, worked extensively on many high profile criminal cases, including Michael Jackson and Scott Peterson Caryn Stark NYC Psychologist, www.carynstark.com  Chris Byers, former Police Chief Johns Creek Georgia, 25 years as Police Officer, now Private Investigator and Polygraph Examiner, www.chrisbyersinvestigationsandpolygraph.com   Dr. Tim Gallagher - Medical Examiner State of Florida  Ray Caputo Lead News Anchor for Orlando's Morning News, 96.5 WDBO Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. In the last hours, a major development in the case of three guys who go fishing on a late night fishing trip, been friends since high school, get massacred. We are learning not only did the killers, the executioners, go out for McDonald's cheeseburgers after the bloody massacre of three innocent guys, But the state is now seeking the death penalty. It's actually very rare for the state to go forward in a death penalty prosecution. What makes this case different from all the others?

Take a listen to this. The parents of 27-year-old Brandon Rollins, who was shot and left bloodied in the roadway in Polk County over the weekend. His father recalling his final moments because he got the phone call from his son not long after he was shot. Cyril Rollins says the moment he realized his son was calling, he knew it was bad news. He don't never call my phone at all unless he have trouble or was going down. When he answered, his fears were realized. He said, help daddy, help daddy. Cyril knew his 27-year-old son, Brandon Rollins, was out fishing on Lake Streetie with two friends, 23-year-old Damian Tillman and 30-year-old Kevin Springfield. He rushed to the scene where he found his son shot and bloodied in the roadway.

Well, when I got there, I didn't have a phone at all. I didn't know what to do. He was talking and all of that. I said, son, I got to leave you. I got to go get some help. He was pretty bad. He was too bloody. Can you imagine that father's anguish? With me, an all-star panel to break it down and put it back together again.

First of all, renowned California criminal defense attorney, Laura Uretzian, joining us. Psychologist, Karen Stark, joining me from Manhattan. You can find her at KarenStark.com. Chris Byers, former chief of police, Johns Creek, 25 years on the force now, private investigator and polygrapher at Chris Byers Investigations and Polygraph.com. You know him well, Dr. Tim Gallagher, the medical examiner for the entire state of Florida, and Ray Caputo, lead news anchor Orlando at WDBO. Think about it. Just this morning, everybody was getting ready for work and school, and I heard my son, John David, my call out, Mom, Mom. I dropped everything I was doing. His voice sounds so alarmed. And I ran in. He went, mom, I dropped my drink. Just that's such a small trite example. Karen Stark, a psychologist

joining me out of Manhattan. But there's something when your child calls you and you can tell something's wrong, just like this dad, as soon as his son said, daddy help, he knew something was terribly wrong. He didn't even have to hear the rest of the conversation. Nancy, that's the part of the story that is most compelling,

I think, and horrific because just like you, there is nothing like the bond between the parent and the child or at least that's what you hope and here is a story really a stunningly disgusting horrible story of a father who's with his son and can do nothing to help him and think about it it makes you worse that he couldn't he didn't bring his phone. He rushed out. He forgot his phone. I could just picture it, can't you? And he can't find his son's phone and can do nothing to help him. Oh my goodness. Oh, I can hardly take it in. You know, I want to go to Ray Caputo

right now, lead news anchor, Orlando News WDBO. Take me back to that night. Who are the three victims? Damian Tillman, Kevin Springfield, Brandon Rollins. They had all been best buddies for a long time, right? Yeah, they grew up together, Nancy, in Frost Proof, Florida. That's this little community. It's about an hour and a half south of Orlando. It's really picturesque. It's this narrow strip of land between two lakes and these three friends. They're pretty much in their 20s. Kevin was 30, but they'd all known each other. And it was a small, tight knit community. So it's a Friday night and they do what a lot of people in Florida do, a little night fishing, you know, summer night, beautiful July summer night. And they go and they meet up. And then this problem, this problem out of nowhere, it's a very chance meeting, but it just explodes into a big tragedy.

You know, Chief Byers, when I heard the three were out late at night and when they were shot, my first thought was, oh, nothing good happens after midnight. They're out partying. They've been at some nightclub. Everybody's drunk and this shooting happens. Not to blame the victim, but I got it. That's what I first thought had happened when I heard the late night outing.

That's not at all what happened, Chief Byers. You know, my twins and my husband and I do a lot of camping and RVing. One of my favorite things to do is to go out stargaze late at night. And I'm just imagining these three guys out, planning to be out on the water under the stars. So there was nothing nefarious at all, Chief, about these guys being out night fishing. No, not at all. I myself just drove in back to Atlanta from camp in the last four days. And every night when it got late and clear, I took a walk to go gaze up at the stars. I mean, so I know exactly what you're talking about. And here's three friends that are just going out, having a good time fishing and meet their demise.

It's just it's absolutely sickening. And, you know, so often when we go to court, you have a victim that, you know, you've got to take your victims as you find them. But sometimes you've got a little explaining to do to a jury. And I always use, Jackie, the example of one of the first ag assault robberies I had. It was a stripper dressed as a cheerleader going at like 4 a.m. from the strip club to her car and she got robbed. Now, you know, not me, but a lot of people will get into judging her morally. I don't want anybody to judge me morally, so I stay out of that business. That is not my business. But these victims, Chief Byers, are scrubbed in sunshine. You don't see that all the time in court no you don't

yeah i was thinking back as you were talking to the many times that i've had victims that were either a drug deal gone bad uh or you know home invasion where there was something in the house that shouldn't be but yeah these victims were doing absolutely nothing wrong i totally agree with you now we find out about a twist in the story and a convenience store. Take a listen to our friends at Fox 13. This is Jennifer Holton. Cyril hopped back into his car, driving to a convenience store to call 911 and then rushed back to the scene. He says that's when he heard his son's phone ringing inside of his truck. The seat, it was covered on blood.

And I got the phone and it was his mama. I said, please, Daddy. My son is dying. But all three men were dead before EMS arrived. We still don't have a rest at this moment. Sheriff Judd saying Monday investigators have received well over 100 tips, but they're hoping now that an increased reward makes a difference. There's a reward of $30,000 at this moment in time just for information that leads to the arrest of these horrific criminals. An arrest that Cyril says could bring justice for his family.

That was my only son. I'll never have another grandchild. Nothing. My life is gone. Trying to nail down the sequence of events that night. Let's hear from the horse's mouth. This is Polk County Sheriff, Sheriff Grady Judd. Listen.

His father, who was home in bed asleep, heard the call from his son, knew where they were fishing, jumped up, got dressed, drove here immediately. He's about 10 minutes away in the Frost Proof community. When he arrived, he saw this horrific scene of where all these young men had been shot up. In Brandon's father's excitement to run to and help his son, he forgot his cell phone at home. So now he's out in the middle as you can see of no place without any communications. So he hopped back in his vehicle and went to Sunray which is on highway 27, ran into the convenience store. They all know each other in this area. Said my son needs help. 17 year old young lady who's the daughter of the convenience store attendant at that time jumps in the vehicle with Brandon's

father and they come back to the scene crime stories with nancy grace guys we are talking about a stunning development that has gone down in the last hours in the case of three young guys friends fault of their own, being ambushed and massacred. But why? We also now know the announcement has just been made. The state will seek the death penalty on the alleged killers who reportedly, after the massacre of three guys out fishing, go and top it off with a dozen cheeseburgers. Obviously, mass murder did not affect their appetite, Laura Uretzian.

You're the renowned criminal defense attorney. How are you going to explain that to the jury? If I'm taking the position that I'm helping or I'm defending these guys, our position would be that this was a sudden quarrel, something that happened at the moment they argued, and it's more in the voluntary manslaughter range. But of course, if I'm looking at it from a different perspective, I would say having that kind of an appetite after this kind of a massacre is not going to help the defendants in this case. I mean, it's almost like they were celebrating. They didn't care that three people were dead and they'd left them there dying. So I can just see that as a horrific fact, not helping, definitely not helping P.J. Wiggin.

These guys seemingly celebrated after a massacre down in Florida by heading to McDonald's to get 10 McDonald's cheese. You know, you're right, Laura. And there's something about it, no matter what the facts were. Reportedly, the cops say they've got the shooters, the shooters. The fact that they're out scarfing down cheeseburgers after, I mean, how do you explain the cheeseburgers? Yeah, I'm with you on that. That's a tough one to explain.

But again, I mean, if we get, that's something that the jury is going to hate about these three individuals. But then they would have to put, bottom line is though, the bottom line is that the jury is going to have to look at the facts and decide if this was something that was planned,

premeditated, or if this was something that it was supposed to be just a discussion or maybe an argument and it became heated and the decision to kill happened as a result of that it wasn't premeditated there wasn't now wait a minute though lawyer etsy and i assume in california you abide by the law as it is recognized across the rest of the united states including hawaii and alaska and that is premeditation can be formed in the blink of an eye or the twinkling of an instant.

The time it takes to raise a gun and pull the trigger. That's enough time for premeditation. You're right. We don't need a lot of time for premeditation. But you have also a very strong argument here that this was an argument. It was a heated argument. It was a sudden quarrel. And it turned into a killing or

a massacre, unfortunately. Let's see what we can find out. That's an argument that is, yeah, that's an argument. You got to make some kind of argument. You can't just line up at the death chamber and say, okay, a defense attorney is going to get in here and fight till the finish, regardless of what we may think about their argument. Take a listen to Janai Norman at ABC. Around 10 p.m. Friday, 23-year-old Damian Tillman arrived to the remote area to go fishing with his friends. Officials saying as he was being murdered, 30-year-old Kevin Springfield and 27-year-old Brandon Rollins showed up and were shot. Rollins making that phone call. When he arrived, he saw this horrific scene of where all these young men had been shot up. What the murders also didn't count on is Brandon had the opportunity to talk to his dad before he died.

The sheriff saying the victim's father in a panic left his cell phone at home. And upon finding the gruesome scene and his son still clinging to life, leaving his son at the scene and driving to a convenience store to call 911. By the time help arrived, all three men were dead. But now, you know, you may say in your mind, why? What ensued? How did the perps locate these three guys in this remote area fishing at night? To Ray Caputo, lead news anchor, Orlando Morning News, WDBO. Tell me again about the location where they're doing the fishing. It's Lake Street, Nancy. It's kind of remote. It's not far from, you know, the downtown Frost Proof area, but because that, you know, the city itself, the town is remote in itself, you know,

Lake Street-y is off the beaten path. There isn't a lot around. It actually is a dirt road that you have to take to get there. So this was very remote and at a time of night when there wasn't a lot of people around to begin with. Then it seems to me that there's no other way around it. Chris Byers, former police chief, chief, there's no way around it other than they must have followed them there. Now, to me, that makes them the aggressor. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. When you talk about premeditation, they followed them there.

I mean, there's no you're talking about it can happen in an instant. I'm not sure how far it is from from where they were followed. But the fact that they got in a car to purposely follow there. Yeah. Well, I got a pretty good idea, Chief. Take a listen to Sheriff Grady. 9.56 in the evening, Damien is checking out of the store with his product. He is followed out of the store by TJ, who checks out about 15 seconds later. and he's also followed by his brother and his girlfriend. At 10.06 p.m., only 10 minutes later, Brandon, who is now in the white pickup truck, frantically calls his dad and says, help. And I've already talked to you how dad ran to the scene only to find the massacre at the scene. Only 10 minutes passed from the time the three victims, Damian Tillman, Kevin Springfield, Brandon Rollins leave a Dollar General. And also there, T.J. Wiggins, Mary Whitmore, and Robert Wiggins.

That's no coincidence. But what could have happened in the Dollar General? Listen to WFLA News reporter Stacey DeSilva. Everybody wanted to know, was this random or were these men targeted? The sheriff said today that a chance encounter at a frost-proof Dollar General led to a massacre. Three people are now in custody. They have solved the case. Sheriff Grady Judd offering answers about a doomed Polk County fishing trip.

This is the guy who directly did the damage. His name's Tony Wiggins. He's known as TJ. The sheriff says Friday night, Wiggins, his girlfriend Mary Whitmore, and his brother Robert went to this Dollar General in Frostproof. In front of them in line to check out was Damian Tillman, one of the victims. Video shows Tillman and Wiggins appearing to have a cordial conversation. Tillman mentions to the clerk he's meeting up with Kevin Springfield to go fishing. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

We are talking about the brutal massacre of three young guys, best friends from the get-go, all the way back to high school. They go out night fishing in a remote area. While they're fishing, they are attacked and massacred by, according to police, T.J. Wiggins, a rap sheet as long as I-75, Mary Whitmore, the girlfriend of the brother Robert Wiggins, a dollar general, where no ill words were exchanged. One of the victims happens to mention we're going night fishing. Is that all it took? A chance encounter ends like this. Take a listen to this.

TJ is someone who his criminal history should shock your conscience. It does mine. TJ started to be arrested when he was 12 years old. He is currently only 26 years old. TJ has 230 felony criminal charges in his arrest history. I didn't stutter. He had 230 charges in his arrest history. 15 convictions.

And two times to state prison at only 26. There's a picture of Tony Wiggins. Here's the real Tony Wiggins. He's a thug. He's a criminal. He's pure evil in the flesh. To you, Ray Caputo, WDBO, why was this guy with 230 entries on his rap sheet out walking free, and what happened at the Dollar General, if anything? Well, Nancy, why T.J. Wiggins is out on the street is a million dollar question because he absolutely shouldn't have been the guy

was trouble oh please stop coulda woulda shoulda i want to shoot myself in the foot if i hear that again he should have been in jail okay go ahead not your. You're just a messenger. Right. Well, it really was an innocuous encounter because Kevin was he sorry, Brandon was in a dollar general and he's talking to the clerk, you know, a little bit of back and forth. And they're behind him, TJ and the rest of the gang. And they hear him say that he's going fishing. Now, meanwhile, TJ has, he has a thing for one of the friends. He has a thing for Kevin Springfield, who he knows Brandon is going to be with because, and this is, this is where all this happened over a truck. TJ thought that Kevin stole a truck. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. When you talk about defendants, such as

TJ Wiggins, the one with the 230 entries on his rap sheet by their first name. I mean, are you guys friends? Are you expecting him over for dinner anytime soon? OK, so you've got Tony T.J. Wiggins, age 26, the brother, William Robert Wiggins, age 21, and the girlfriend, Mary Whitmore, age 27. They're the defendants. So you're telling me defendant Tony T.J. Wiggins, age 26, found the guy that had taken his truck? Yep. He thought that Kevin Springfield had not only stolen the truck, but he had sold an engine. And he was upset.

He was out to find Kevin, and he'd been looking for him. And this was upset. He was out to find Kevin and he'd been looking for him. And this was his chance. He thought that the gang was going to be over at this Lake Street to do a little night fishing. And he thought it would have been an opportunity to confront Kevin and see if he possibly could get the engine to his truck back. Now, we don't even know to this point that that even happened or not. But TJ certainly thought that it did. So in his mind, he's found the guy that took the engine out of his truck. Yes.

And so he follows them and he somehow cajoles the other two to go with him. They follow these guys to a remote area near Frost Proof, Florida, and the bullets begin to fly. Got an update for you, Laura, you're at CN Criminal Defense, turning out of California. It was a dozen McDonald's cheese and two McChickens. Ten cheese, two McChickens.

So they actually thought through their menu, and they decided that's what they would get. They are no more worried about the three dead bodies and the man in the moon. I can just see the prosecutor starting the opening statement and the closing statement with that. I could see them just flashing up starting with the McDonald's menu and going through it. I only wish that that was on. I'm sure they do have the McDonald's menu and going through it. I only wish that that was on. I'm sure they do have the McDonald's video. I'd love to hear them ordering. And you know why? I know you may think I'm making a big deal out of it, but Karen Starr, you're the shrink. It's going to show their very calm frame of mind after a triple homicide, a bloody crime scene they leave

for the dad of Brandon Rollins to come upon. There's no doubt, Nancy, that we're talking about psychopaths. So here's the thing that's so hard for people to understand. The psychopath does what he or she wants without anxiety, any regret or regard for the suffering of others. So if you think about that, it makes perfect sense that they're able to have this meal and thoroughly enjoy it. Because as far as they're concerned, this is just another day. They're hungry and it's time to eat a whole bunch of food. To medical examiner for the entire state of Florida, that is not easy. To Dr. Tim Gallagher, Dr. Gallagher, what do we know, if anything, about the injuries of these three victims? Well, we know that each of the victims suffered multiple gunshot wounds. Some of the

gunshot wounds went to their body, to their chest, that had gone through their lungs and through their heart. And there were some gunshot wounds reported through their head. So these were wounds that were, this was an assault that was meant to kill them. It wasn't meant to send a warning or anything like that. They hit center body mass and they were looking to kill these people without any regard for them living afterwards. Dr. Gallagher, it's my understanding, and please correct me if I'm wrong, that there is likely no way to determine which of the shots, was it a stomach shot, a leg shot, an arm shot, were first. That's correct, Nancy. It's very difficult to determine that.

The best that we can do is say that they occurred at about the same time. I guess the only way you may be able to tell that, and because were so i believe they were they were so quick in such quick succession for instance if you had shot the person in the head and then a period of seconds 45 60 seconds had passed you shot them again the follow-up shots may not have bled because well right that can be true or cannot be true just because the bullet destroys the brain does not mean that the heart immediately stops beating it can continue to beat for up to a minute afterwards still pumping blood to the rest of the body so i know that you just taught me something new i love that dr gallag. In an adult male average weight, there's about five quarts of blood,

a little over a gallon. And you have to lose about two quarts or so before you're rendered unconscious and then your organs begin to suffer. So I'm thinking of a milk jug, a gallon milk jug. We've got about that much blood in our bodies. We do, and a little bit more too. A little bit more, too. A little bit more. Okay.

Do you think with all of these multiple gunshot wounds, these three victims sustained, do you think they bled out, or would they cause a death? Well, I guess it would be the gunshot to the head, obviously. That was a question I would have prepared for trial but then not asked because it doesn't make any sense. Well, the gunshot to the lungs, the gunshot to the lungs, to the torso, typically what happens is the lungs fill up with blood and the victim actually drowns in their own blood. crime stories with nancy grace guys in the last hours a major announcement has been made in the case of three buddies that go night fishing down off the florida coast they're just out having a good time. There's no drugs.

There's no drinking. There's nothing nefarious going on. They've known each other since high school. This is their idea of a good time night fishing. It was not meant to be. Enter three predators. Think of the savanna and the gazelle are drinking at the pool of water. And in the distance, you see hyena circling up on them and they wait and pounce. These three guys had no idea what was about to happen. And now the announcement, the death penalty will be sought. Ray Caputo, lead news anchor, WDBO. Ray, what is the mode of DP in Florida? I assume the needle. The electric chair, right?

I believe that. Jack, I think it's the needle. As I recall, there's a guy in Florida by the nickname Tiny and his head caught on fire during an execution via electric chair. And then they quickly switched to the needle. Is that right, needle? I'm not going to even show you how she's acting it out, okay? You could have just mouthed it, Jackie. But the needle.

So do we know, Ray Caputo, why this case? Of course it qualified. Hold on, Ray Caputo, why this case? Of course it qualified. Hold on, Ray. Let me throw to our lawyer, renowned criminal defense attorney joining us out of California. Hey, Laura, if I'm ever in criminal trouble, God help me. In California, I'm calling you. I have your cell phone number, just so you know that.

Laura, California also has a death penalty, although it's very rarely used. In fact, I think Newsom put a moratorium on it. But there has to be aggravating circumstances for the state to decide they're going to seek the death penalty. Explain. Right. I mean, and this is I mean, if a case is appropriate for a death penalty, if I'm looking at it from the prosecutor, the prosecution's point of view, this would be one. I mean, we're talking about a massacre. Three guys were on a fishing uh trip and are all killed i understand one of them had an issue with uh tony tj wiggins but what was the problem with the other two and we're dealing with someone who's got i mean talk

about a long rap sheet we call 10 conviction 10 long rap sheets. I bet you don't have any, do you, Laura? I bet you don't have a single infraction on your rap sheet. I bet you don't even have a rap sheet, right? So 10 is kind of stretching it. Even one conviction to me is one too many. Exactly. But we're talking about 230 charges. That's the length of a block probably. So we're, and 15 convictions, two sentence state prison. We're talking about a hardcore criminal who's on the street. And that's not a very sympathetic figure. And I can see from the prosecution's point of view, an argument that's cold-blooded, shooting three people and then going ahead after that, having 10.

10 McDonald's cheeseburgers and two McChickens. In most jurisdictions, the aggravating circumstances are very similar. And tell me if this is true or not for California, for instance, mass murder, and that really just means more than one body. You've got

that's an aggravating circumstance that would justify seeking the death penalty. And this is not do you agree or disagree with the death penalty. It's about the fact they are seeking the death penalty. And this is not do you agree or disagree with the death penalty. It's about the fact they are seeking the death penalty in this case. And Jackie has now corrected us both. You have a choice in Florida. You can get the chair or the needle.

But mass murder, lying in wait, which shows a cool, clear head at the time of a murder, murder for high or monetary pecuniary interest, if you're in it for money. Let's see. In the commission of certain felonies, such as rape, aggravated assault, murdering a political figure or a cop, automatically that can be grounds to seek the death penalty. Those are particularly heinous, which I think is a catch-all because any murder is heinous, but that can be used as an underlying aggravating circumstance. So when the state announces they're going to seek the DP,

they outline, they lay out what the aggravating circumstance is. What do we really know about the alleged perps? Take a listen to Dave Mack at Crime Online. When detectives located the suspects, they were living in a family compound of camper trailers not far from the murder scene. They were living off the grid with no running water, no electricity, using generators for power. T.J. Wiggins and his girlfriend live in one of the travel trailers. His brother had another. With a search warrant, police found two SKS rifles, two Mossberg shotguns,

and ammunition for both in a gun safe belonging to T.J. Wiggins. The ammunition found there, police say, was the same ammunition fired from the gun in the murders, a Smith & Wesson handgun. Tracing the suspect's movement after the killings, police say the three suspects drove to McDonald's, ordered 10 double cheeseburgers, two McChicken sandwiches, and then went home to eat. The next morning, Robert Wiggins took the truck he was driving to a car wash to get the road clay off. They thought to get the road clay off. They thought to get the road clay off.

Chief Chris Byers, what does that tell you? You made the perfect analogy a few minutes ago with them, a hyena being in wait, because we are talking about just animals here. And showing that their mindset after they commit this heinous crime, going to eat afterwards and then getting the clay off of the truck, it all shows that they did exactly what they set out to do. This wasn't an argument gone bad. They set out to murder this person and these three individuals and to cover up their crime afterwards.

Absolutely. To Dr. Tim Gallagher, medical examiner, state of Florida, that clay that they thought they were washing off their vehicle is very important. Why? Oh, it's very important because each part of the country has a different composition of dirt or material that the roads are made from. So you could actually trace the exact clay to the exact location where the crime was committed by doing a chemical analysis of the clay. If the clay on the truck matches the clay at the scene, then that truck was definitely at the scene. Absolutely. You're absolutely right. And I know that when you are conducting autopsies, you very carefully keep and secure and preserve, for instance, clothing, shoes, any residue or clay or dirt you find on the body for forensic proof, just like what we're talking about.

And now another specter as to motive raises its head. Take a lesson to Jeff Patterson in WFLA 8. Jessica Steenson cannot hold back her tears or her anger when talking about her boyfriend, Brandon Rollins' murder. But we never knew they would ever do this. Brandon Rollins' father came to the scene of his son's murder and held him as he died. Today, the family watched as Sheriff Grady Judd explained how Brandon Rollins, THE FAMILY WATCHED AS SHERIFF GRADY JUDD EXPLAINED HOW BRANDON ROLLINS, KEVIN SPRINGFIELD AND DAMON TILLMAN WERE KILLED AND WHO HE BELIEVES IS RESPONSIBLE.

CYRIL ROLLINS HAD NOTHING GOOD TO SAY ABOUT ACCUSED KILLER T.J. WIGGINS. IT'S THE WAY THEY RAISE. YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? THEY FOLLOW THE FATHER AND MOTHER. THAT'S THE WAY THEY'RE GOING

TO RAISE. BRANDON'S MOTHER SAYS SHE'S KNOWN T.J. WIGGINS FOR MOST OF HIS LIFE. HE WAS ALWAYS A ROUGH KID, ALWAYS IN TROUBLE. DOTTY PAYTON TELLS US THAT THE FAMILY WASN'T SURE IF

THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO FIND HIM. THE FAMILY WASN'T SUREJ. Wiggins for most of his life. He was always a rough kid, always in trouble. Dottie Payton tells 8 on Your Side she suspected from the beginning who is responsible. I had suspicion, means knowing. My son just was there the wrong time. The family strongly suspects drugs are to blame. They're drug heads, and they could have been high out their mind.

Who knows? Just hearing the parents crying like that, looking for answers. So we know for a fact, and I don't think this will be prejudicial at trial, and it will come into evidence, that these three were, quote, living off the grid. What does that mean to you, Karen Stark? Who lives off the grid? Living off the grid, Nancy, means that they were not using regular electricity. They were, you know, just setting things up without having to pay any money.

So they're really outlaws. They're really deciding that they're going to have their own little community and not be a part of the way society normally functions. Some people would call that antisocial. The drugs, if they were high out of their minds, voluntary use of drugs or alcohol, not a defense. I want you to hear McKenna King talking to the family WFTS ABC Action. The death penalty is definitely a number one priority. The family of Brandon Rollins, one of the victims, watching the hearing

from outside the South County Jail. His father, the first person on scene after the shootings, replaying Brandon's final moments over and over in his head. He could call anybody, 911 or anything, but he didn't because he called me. He knew his daddy was going to be here. His mother describing Brandon as an outgoing mama's boy. When I go back to work, I'm not going to get that phone call on the way home. Mom, I'm off work. Come pick me up. I'm not going to have that chance no no more to get to go pick him up. So it's gonna be very hard. She says the three victims

grew up together, spending much of their time on the lake. His girlfriend Jessica often tagged along too. What I would do just for five more minutes with him on a boat trying to fight to catch a fish. That's one of the things she'll miss the most. Take your time with your family and love every single second with them. Amen. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off.

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