Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - “FRIENDS” MATTHEW PERRY OD DEATH IN HOT TUB: CRIMINAL CHARGES LOOM?

Episode Date: July 3, 2024

The LAPD launches a criminal investigation into the death of Matthew Perry after the Medical Examiner's report is released and is nearing its conclusion.  A source close to the investigation tells People the police believe multiple people should be charged. The LAPD is working with the Drug Enforcement Administration, DEA, and the U.S. Postal Inspectors attempting to find out where the ketamine that killed Matthew Perry came from.  Will someone be charged?  Joining Nancy Grace Today: Wendy Patrick – California Prosecutor, Author of “Why Bad Looks Good” and “Red Flags,” and Host of “Today with Dr. Wendy” on KCBQ in San Diego; X: @WendyPatrickPHD" Dr. Bethany Marshall – Psychoanalyst (Beverly Hills); X: @DrBethanyLive/ Instagram & TikTok: drbethanymarshall; Appearing in “Paris in Love” on Peacock; BOOK: “Deal Breaker: When to work on a relationship and when to walk away” Mike McCormick – Owner and Lead Investigator of M.C.M. Investigations (Los Angeles); Former LAPD Detective for over 25 years (worked Gangs for 5 years); Facebook: MCM Investigations Dr. Ernest Chiodo  - Toxicologist, Physician, Biomedical Engineer, Attorney; Author: “Toxic Tort: Medical and Legal Elements” Lauren Conlin – Investigative Journalist, Host of The Outlier Podcast, and also Host of “Corruption: What Happened to Grant Solomon; X- @Conlin_Lauren/ Instagram- @LaurenEmilyConlin/YouTube- @LaurenConlin4 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Friends star Matthew Perry ODs dead in a hot tub. Are criminal charges looming in his death? Good evening, I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Bombshell. Investigators and law enforcement are looking to charge multiple suspects in the tragic ketamine death of Friends actor Matthew Perry. I recall when prosecuting Ketamine, K, was equated with drugs that veterinarians used.

But now it's very, very common on the street and even prescribed. But why are criminal charges looming in an OD, an overdose case? How is that working now that we know the cause of death has been ruled accidental? Listen. The LAPD launching a criminal investigation into the death of Matthew Perry after the medical examiner's report is released and it's nearing its conclusion. A source close to the investigation tells people the police believe multiple people should be charged. The LAPD is working with the Drug Enforcement Administration, the DEA, and the U.S. Postal Inspector's attempting to find out where the ketamine that killed Matthew Perry came from. Joining me, an all-star panel to make sense of

what we're learning right now, are criminal charges looming in the overdose death of friend-star Matthew Perry. Now, we know that there is a criminal investigation going on. Of who? Straight out to Lauren Conlon, investigative journalist, host of The Outlier podcast. You can find her at LaurenConlon.com. Lauren, criminal charges. Now, I recall distinctly when I was prosecuting, there was a big buzz in the courthouse. Archie Bunker's in

the courthouse. All in the family was a huge, a huge TV show. My brother, my older brother loved it. And he was the star. He went on to be the star of the heat of the night and just a great, great actor. His son died of an overdose and he was in the Fulton County Courthouse pursuing a claim against the doper. And at that time, it was unheard of. Right now, we are hearing that charges, criminal charges, are looming in connection with Matthew Perry's death. What do you know? Nancy, what we know is that Matthew Perry was getting treatment for depression through ketamine. But this type of treatment, I mean, it leaves your body within two to three hours. There are traces of ketamine. He was also weaning himself off of this treatment. So he hadn't been to this doctor or this place to

get these treatments for over a week and a half. So when the autopsy report came out and it was stated that he had so much ketamine in his system, and I will let a doctor talk about how much, they were like, wait a second, where would one procure all of this? So it actually took his stepfather, journalist from Dateline, Keith Morrison, to say, hey, we probably should make this a criminal investigation here. Another thing is that there can be a cocktail of drugs in people's system. Why was he, Matthew Perry, so OD'd? What happened? Well, our friend Dr. William Maroney, an expert in opioids, weighs in. have is a cocktail of disaster because you probably are dealing with multiple doctors that are not communicating. Nobody's coordinating his care. And if he's getting ketamine, as it said in the autopsy, there's ketamine contents in the stomach that would be ketamine pills, that's a rogue doctor. Somebody outside of

good practice guidelines giving pills they have no business giving in addition to ketamine treatment. And to Dr. Maroney, what do you mean by rogue clinics? These are rogue doctors in rogue clinics. The only doctor that's probably legitimate here is the one giving the buprenorphine. That's the hardest word to say. But in order to do that, you have to have training. The rest of these people doing ketamine, rogue. They're outside the law. They're outside good practice.

We saw this with Anna Nicole Smith, Michael Jackson, Prince, all these rogue doctors treating all these celebrities, and you don't know who's around them. You know, another interesting thing, as I was researching in the night and early, early this morning regarding Matthew Perry, it's very disturbing to me. Dr. Bethany Marshall is joining us, a renowned psychoanalyst in the L.A. area, and a book, Deal Breaker, When to Work in a Relations area and a book deal breaker when to work on a relationship and when to walk away and you can find her at drbethanymarshall.com dr. Bethany when I was researching Matthew Perry early this

morning you know what comes up first thing Matthew Perry had more than 1.5 million dollars in his personal bank account Matthew Perry is broke at the time of death Matthew Perry has nearly $2 million. Blah, blah, blah. Does anybody care, other than this panel, about what happened to Matthew Perry? After his death, people came out of the woodwork saying, oh, he's a horrible person.

Oh, he's a wonderful person. And now it's all about his money. The ketamine, it's about his death. How did he get the drugs? Why was he OD'd? I mean, this guy, it was a TV superstar, a movie star. Did nobody care about him? Did nobody care about what happened to him? Did his friends just stand by and watch him OD into oblivion over and over and over? It's like vultures, you know, harpies picking at his bones at this juncture. The fact is, this could have been prevented and he could have lived, Dr. Bethany. But now the headline.

He had nearly $2 million in his bank account at the time of his death. Nancy, this is the worst form of what I call othering. Just turning him into the dangerous other or the poor other or the enviable other. Somebody with whom you have no relationship. All these people who watched Friends all of those years, they felt attached to him. They felt a sense of love, a sense of admiration. But now they've kicked him off the pedestal and they have him writhing on the ground and they're vilifying the victim because these celebrities who have a lot of money notoriously get the worst care. I see this in my practice all the time because what happens is if they're suffering from addiction and one doctor limits them or says, I'm sorry, I'm not going to prescribe this for you because you have a propensity towards addiction, they can just go find another one, another doctor to prescribe

because they have all these hangers on and they are vulnerable. People with substance abuse problems are extraordinarily vulnerable. And so the fact that Dr. Moroney is talking about all these different people prescribing, they were not working together as a team and they were not setting limits, which is what you have to do with people who have these kinds of mental health struggles. Who? Who are we talking about? Who is under criminal investigation? Well, listen, I can tell you this much. When the LAPD, the DEA and the U.S. Postal Service are up your tailpipe, you're in trouble. I am telling you, those are three very, very powerful law enforcement agencies. And don't underestimate the UPS, the U.S. Postal Service. We always hear about mobsters committing murders, drug trafficking,

human trafficking. You know who can bring down a mobster in a New York minute? The U.S. Postal Service. Why do we need them? Not just to get our mail, because they help prove wire fraud. They help prove fraud through the mail, which is a federal offense. Look, I could try a guy for crack cocaine or for heroin, selling opioids. But what about the guys that send it in a FedEx? What about the guys that mail it, that send money through the mail or other means? Them. So LAPD, the DEA, and the U.S. Postal Service are on this case. So, you know, something's about to go down. And Dr. Bethany Marshall, let me just ask you a quick question. You refer to othering. I've never heard that before. Did you make that up? No. I mean, it's really, in terms of racial injustice studies, that's a frequent word

that's used where you turn somebody of another race into an other, a person for whom you have no empathy or understanding. You don't see them as their own person in their own right, but we do it within our own race too. You can other an older person or somebody who's disabled or somebody who's young. And I think that means just really not caring about them, just looking at superficial features, but also envy is at the core of othering. When you really are envious of another person's accomplishments, you just stomp on them and you just knock them off their pedestal. And it's something we human beings, sadly, are

prone to doing. You know, Dr. Bethany, I could talk to you all day long about what is wrong with people. Why do we love somebody so much and then just want to destroy them and talk badly about them after their death the way people are? Matthew Perry. I don't know if what they're saying is true or not about many of the allegations made against him after his death. But I think this is hardly the time to go for him. I mean, he's dead. He clearly had an accidental death. All those online reports of people's wealth are untrue.

Often in my clinical practice, if I have a celebrity patient and they tell me something about their financials, I'll look it up online. And there's just a wild variance between what they report and what's online. Usually online, it is very, very inflated. Also, you know, in terms of Matthew Perry, we want our celebrities to be successful enough that we admire them and we identify with them, but not so successful that we envy them and feel that we can never have what they have. And so I think his meteoric rise, the fact that he's so beloved, so talented as an actor and so likable and relatable makes people envious. And that's when they start to devalue and put him down. Well, I can tell you this much. He may have money and fame, but when you are addicted to drugs, your life is hell.

I don't care who you are. It's hell. H-E-double-L. You know, Dr. Ernest Scioto is joining us and I want to follow up with you, Mike McCormick and Wendy Patrick, because I'm really interested. I'm anxious to find out who is being criminally investigated. Are charged criminal charges looming in Matthew Perry's case? I've heard a lot of rumors that I can't report because I can't confirm them about who is being targeted. I know some of the people that have been questioned, but charges like this would have to be something like an involuntary manslaughter, producing or manufacturing or distributing drugs. There are so many different ways to go. But what I want to talk about right now, Dr. Ernest Shiodo, who is a renowned toxicologist, a physician, biomedical

engineer, attorney, and author. Wait, did I get it all? Hold on. Let me make sure. Toxicologist, medical doctor, biomedical engineer, attorney, and author of Toxic Torque, Medical and Legal Elements. Wow. When do you have time to breathe? Dr. Scioto, thank you for being with us. I want to talk about the side effects of ketamine K, which has long been used by veterinarians on animals. And I want to talk about what somebody said earlier, rogue doctors. Oh, it was Dr. William Maroney, a renowned toxicologist who specializes in opioids. He's the author of American Narcan. Dr. Scioto, side effects of ketamine, would they make you angry? Because a lot of the people that crawled out of the woodwork after Matthew Perry's death said, oh, he was violent. Well, he never struck me that way, but

we don't know how he was in person. What would be some of the side effects of ketamine? Well, ketamine is not an opiate. It's a phensecidine. Oh, okay. Stop right there. Okay. Hold on there okay hold on okay wait yes let me just put it out there you know more than me i don't know what you just said i'm gonna have to write it phonetically what did you say it's a what it's a fincycloidine it's not an opiate a fincycloidine okay yes so it's it doesn't uh it't it's not an opiate. So it's not going to act like fentanyl or morphine or heroin that causes respiratory depression and death. Actually, it stimulates your respiration and increases your heart rate and blood pressure.

So so from a standpoint of something that's going to cause death, no, that's not the issue. It causes feelings of dissociation, out-of-body type of experiences, and that's part of why it's used recreationally, but also why it's used in treatment of depression and anxiety. But as far as it actually causing an overdose death, no, I don't think that's the case. This is what we know. His death included drowning, the effects of B-promorphine,

a drug that treats opioid addiction. His use of ketamine, the amount of ketamine in his bloodstream was equivalent to that used in general anesthesia, according to the times. That means when he was in that hot tub, he might as well have been hooked up to propofol or general anesthesia. I mean, that is a lot. So to you, Mike McCormick, owner, lead investigator, MCM Investigations in L.A. This is your neck of the woods. And you can find him at M Mother C Curry, M Mother Investigations. Mike McCormick, listen to this.

A criminal investigation is being launched to figure out the source of the drugs. That's going to take a little more investigation, but there's other people involved also. would be a couple of the charges that they would probably end up filing against the individuals who distributed or provided the ketamine to Matthew. According to Matthew Perry, he had been clean for 19 months, but the Daily Mail reports the actor died from an overdose of the party drug ketamine. According to the autopsy report, a detective who attended the scene of Perry's death said, quote, During my investigation, no alcohol, illicit drugs, or drug paraphernalia were found, unquote. The Daily Mail also claims the 54-year-old was getting injections of the male hormone testosterone, and an unnamed female associate claimed the injections were causing him

to be angry and mean for the last couple of weeks. A criminal investigation into actor Matthew Perry's death is near conclusion. Dealers could face charges. Who's facing charges? Not just in Hollywood, in L.A., but everywhere. Once people that are suppliers, even if they're friends of the victim, are going to be prosecuted. And once that begins happening, I believe that we will have less O.D. deaths, such as what we're seeing with Matthew Perry, who is being prosecuted.

This is what we know. Listen. Brooke Mueller isn't home when police serve a search warrant at her sober living residence. However, sources indicate Mueller is completely cooperative with law enforcement, and when she arrives home, she's not handcuffed while talking to police. This is not the first time Mueller has spoken with investigators in the Matthew Perry case, but this time, authorities seized her iPhone and laptop. Okay, that's not good when law enforcement takes your cell phone and your laptop. But again, Brooke Mueller has not been charged. And yes, she was married to Charlie Shin.

And yes, they have twins together. Yes, she has been in and out of rehab. She dated, and I think the loose sense of the word, Matthew Perry. What more do we know? Listen. Brooke Mueller has retained a lawyer for help in navigating the multiple meetings she's having with law enforcement, and she's remaining tight-lipped about the situation. An insider tells InTouch, it's tough to say or know exactly what her role is in Matthew Perry's death,

but Mueller is adamant she has nothing to do with it. Again, Brooke Mueller, a mother, a former wife, in and out of rehab, fighting her demons, did date Matthew Perry, we are told, but has not been named as a defendant in this case. Wendy Patrick joining me, California prosecutor, president, founder of Black Swan Verdicts and author of her third book. This was new. Why Bad Looks Good. And you can find her at WendyPatrickPhD.com. She's also again, you're like a Shioto. I don't know how you do this, but she's also host of Today with Dr. Wendy KCBQ San Diego. Wendy, that's a mouthful. Now, can we get off of your huge resume and onto Matthew Perry? What do you make of this? I mean, I would be worried if I saw the DEA peeking through my trash through my kitchen window. I wouldn't like that. No, definitely not.

And especially when you put it in combination with those other two powerhouse organizations. I mean, they obviously have enough evidence to be conducting an investigation, whether somebody mailed him the drugs, whether somebody gave him the drugs because they thought they were doing him a favor. As you mentioned earlier, they're not looking for a murder suspect. They're looking for an involuntary manslaughter suspect or who may have facilitated this drug overdose along the way. And I do have to say, Nancy, I too have been following what people are saying after the fact. And, you know, he's also so relatable because so many of us know somebody who has struggled with addiction, a family member, a coworker, a friend. And that's one of the reasons that investigators would look at who saw him last, who spoke to him last, what deliveries came that day. But you're right. When you have

those agencies involved, you already know that there's enough evidence to be able to at least follow trails, hopefully leading to some suspects and some justice. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Dr. Bethany Marshall, I'm going to jump off what Wendy Patrick just said. Dr. Bethany, you, I don't believe, have ever heard me be an apologist for a supplier. Ever. I remember the first, stay with me on this, the first time I saw a DUI habitual violator, which means you've had so many DUIs, which are misdemeanors, you finally get a felony. You graduate to big court. And the defendant came in.

She was in shackles and prison blues. She was beautiful, soft-spoken, college degree, had been a stockbroker at one of the big stockbrokerage firms, and she had become an alcoholic. She lost her husband, her three children, no more custody. You have to have special, you know, like a lawyer has to have a law degree and you have to be certified by the bar to practice. She lost all of her certification, no more stock brokerage ever because you can't have a drunk broker because they may take your

money. You don't know what they'll do. She lost everything because of addiction. And she was standing alone in that courtroom, all alone, no family, nobody taking a guilty plea. And that was the first time, I mean, my parents, like me, my mother anyway, my father was not afraid of a cocktail. Teetotalers, totally, right? And I saw for the first time what addiction does to you. You think she wanted to go through life without her children? You might as well take a dagger and stab me in the heart, Dr. Bethany, to take me away from the twins. Lost everything. So I don't apologize for suppliers, but addicts give each other drugs. And I don't know whether to feel sorry for them or to throw them in jail.

You know, Nancy, it's so difficult because addicts generally have a trail of devastation behind them. And usually they do alienate all of their loved ones and friends. And yet, ironically, it's social support that's the most key factor in sobriety. What you said about supplying each other drugs, it's true. Some people you do not want to put in psychotherapeutic groups together. People with eating disorders, you don't want to put them in a group together. They'll just teach each other how to binge and purge. You don't want to put people who are anxious in a psychotherapy group together because they'll raise each other's anxiety.

The same with people who are drug addicted. They do tend to supply each other drugs. Nancy, I want to add that we're thinking of nefarious individuals supplying drugs to Matthew Perry. It could be his own legitimate doctor, the primary treater, because when you're prescribing a psychedelic agent psychotherapeutically for a patient, you have to do a full assessment to make sure that treatment was going to work. And if they're already addicted to that substance, you don't want to prescribe that substance to help them get better. It's counterintuitive. It's just malpractice.

Reminder to all, Brooke Mueller has not been charged in this case. For all I know, they had the same supplier. For all I know, they were talking on the phone about their addictions. For all I know, she was counseling him. I don't know why law enforcement has seized her phone and her laptop, but we're going to find out. Friends actor Matthew Perry's ketamine overdose death under criminal investigation. Could Perry's celebrity friends be at fault. Are criminal charges looming in the OD death of friend star Matthew Perry, who passed away in his hot tub? He had so much ketamine in his system, it was equal to the amount you would

have for general anesthesia. He was posting and texting about chillaxing in his hot tub just before his death. Clearly, this was an accident. Oh, so warm water swirling around you makes you feel good. I'm Matt Mann. Having a great evening, right? He died. Why did he die? An OD of ketamine. But I want to ask our doctor joining us, Dr. Ernest Scioto, a renowned toxicologist, physician, biomedical engineer, and lawyer, and author. I was reading his autopsy report, doctor, and I also say, I say, number one, COD, acute effects of ketamine. But I also see, this is a tough thing, pancreatic fibrosis. What is that? Pancreatic fibrosis chronic. Yeah, that's from alcohol abuse. Basically, he has damaged his pancreas from having had, probably because of alcohol, prior pancreatitis.

Gosh, okay. That happens with other than alcohol abuse, but it's something that's common with alcoholics. Okay, pancreatic fibrosis, chronic. And he also had nephrosclerosis of kidneys. What is nephrosclerosis of kidneys? Nephrosclerosis of kidneys is where you have damage to the filtering elements of the kidneys, the elements of the kidneys that take the toxins, day-to-day toxins that we all develop in our body and excrete them into the urine. So there was some kidney damage.

What the cause of the kidney damage was, it's hard to say. I see chronic hepatic congestion, mild aplo apla negally okay i'm sure that's not right but you know what it is what is it well basically what's happening is he he has some damage to his liver again likely from alcohol okay guys i'm reading on in the external examination and i remember friends was huge I was in law school and never got to watch TV, but everybody else watched it and loved him. And when I think about him with that big smile, listen to this, the body is identified by toe tags and is that of an uninvolved refrigerated adult male. It just, it just seems so sad to me that he affected and touched

so many people's lives and now he's identified by a toe tag. Okay, what do we know about the criminal investigation? Is there a crime? Was he attending rogue clinics that gave him too much ketamine, gave him access to too much ketamine? Did he doctor shop? Did doctors have a duty to find out whom else he was seeing? Was he going to different pharmacies to get ketamine and other drugs? Or did he have a drug supplier? Listen. The decision to file charges or not in the death of Matthew Perry rests in the U.S. Attorney's Office. Some experts point to the involvement of the California branch of the Drug Enforcement

Agency that federal authorities might be looking at distribution of a controlled substance resulting in death or conspiracy to distribute a controlled substance resulting in death charges. These types of charges are used to charge drug dealers, but can be used for pill mills and doctors who over-prescribe narcotics without seeing patients. And friends that continually give you a pipeline to drugs. You know, when you think of a drug dealer, Wendy Patrick, a California prosecutor, when you think of a drug dealer, you automatically think of, oh gosh, here's a good stereotype of somebody sitting in a big mansion with Rottweilers guarding the front door and, you know, a big moat

around their mansion. So you can't get to him and armed guards, maybe with a lot of gold chains. Yeah, it's not like that. It's not like that at all. The supplier could be your, and I'm definitely air quoting here, best friend, Wendy Patrick. Great point, Nancy, because if we were to confine our investigation to stereotypes, we would no doubt never find the suspects. And that's one of the things that makes drug abuse so difficult and so challenging, specifically because drug dealers come in all shapes and sizes. And even that terminology can be misleading. You have cases where you have an addict sharing their pills with somebody that perhaps also has an addiction. You have people having legitimate prescriptions that they sell themselves. So there is no prototypical drug dealer that you need to look at.

Rather, sometimes suspects are right under the noses of investigators that really broaden the search, particularly in a case like this where we're not talking about crack cocaine. We're talking about a drug that is regularly in talk about air quotes, at least in some circles, and for depression prescribed legitimately by physicians. Now, the onus becomes a physician can only make a smart prescribing decision under the physician's creative do no harm if they know whether or not that patient is also receiving prescriptions from other places. Are they prone to addiction? Do they have a history of drug or alcohol abuse?

So all those factors go into the prescribing decision, which itself can be complicated by there being no record of in addition to what you get legitimately, whether or not somebody is receiving drugs from associates, from friends, or from so-called dealers on the street. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Actor Matthew Perry dead, a tragic ketamine overdose and hot tub drowning. Who gave Perry the lethal drugs? Okay, right now we know that Brooke Mueller was once romantically involved with Perry and that they were still in touch at the time of his death. But we didn't know this. Listen. Brooke Mueller has retained a lawyer for help in navigating the multiple meetings she's having with law enforcement.

And she's remaining tight lipped about the situation. An insider tells InTouch it's tough to say or know exactly what her role is in Matthew Perry's death, but Mueller is adamant she has nothing to do with it. And again, Lauren Collin, I don't want to convict Brooke Mueller. No. All right. This woman is trying to make a go for a life in sober living. I want to get the right person, not just any person. Also, you have the other issues, Lauren Collin, of was he Dr. Shop shopping? Was he going to rogue clinics? We don't know that. But for some reason, we know Ellie law enforcement sees her laptop and phone.

Lauren Collin, what more do we know? Because I'm sure, I think I'm sure, that she has never been arrested or handcuffed during any of these inquiries. The fact that she hired a lawyer, I mean, I think everybody in LA has a lawyer on retainer. Why? I don't know that. But that's not shocking to me. No, Nancy, I was just going to say that. Everybody needs to stop acting like someone's guilty because they lawyer up.

Everybody should lawyer up, like you just said. But no, I want to point out, the FBI truly believes that Matthew Perry or someone in his quote inner circle was doctor shopping to multiple physicians in different states to obtain the ketamine and have those doctors send prescriptions across state lines. Perhaps that's the case, but this is a federal offense. So for whatever reason, Brooke Mueller is the only name that they have released. And I agree with you. She is being questioned.

She's cooperating, but she's not necessarily a suspect. Although I've got to agree also with Michael, Mike McCormick, Wendy Patrick, because when the authorities keep coming back to you and coming back to you, that's a concern in an investigation. You would have thought that she would have handed over her phone and laptop, cooperated with them, and we've been told she is cooperating, and that would be the end of it. But it could be as simple as, did they at one time have the same supplier? What were they talking about? I don't know, but it does raise a red flag, Wendy Patrick, that they continue to question her?

Yeah, it sounds almost like because the two of them knew each other from a rehab facility that perhaps they shared a lot of information. In addition to sharing mutual friends that may have themselves relapsed. And therein lies where an investigation needs to go. How much information can she continue to provide once they are also investigating leads from other places that they can then go back and ask supplement questions. It doesn't mean she's a suspect at all. I mean, she may have the kind of information that would be valuable for them to continue to follow up on. Then when they find out

new facts, she can corroborate, she can admit, deny. Remember, she's been cooperative. And that is what we have to view in terms of turning over the phone and the laptop, whether they were seized, whether she gave them voluntarily. It means that there's something in her past as well that may be instrumental, not incriminating necessarily with respect to her, but instrumental in law enforcement finding who's to blame. And the ultimate question, where did he get the drugs? We are being told that the criminal investigation into Matthew Perry's death is, quote, wrapping up.

Are charges to follow? Another issue out to Mike McCormick, owner lead investigator, MCM Investigations in LA is that when they showed up to meet with her, meet with her at her sober living house, they had a search warrant with them. Now, I can tell you this much. When I went to interview witnesses in every square inch of the city of Atlanta, Fulton County, I usually did not take a search warrant. I'd knock on the door. They let me in. We'd sit down and talk and I'd make notes. We'd have iced tea and that would be that. Once in a while, I'd have a subpoena with me to personally deliver it to them for them to come to court or a subpoena ducus tecum for documents to come to court, but not a search warrant. That is a subtle but very important distinction.

Absolutely. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. But why a search warrant, Mike? In case they can't get what they want voluntarily. It means, Wendy Patrick, and Mike McCormick is correct, but it means they go to her for a reason. They are seeking something. You have to have a search warrant to enter a defendant's home or to really for police to enter any home. You've got to have a search warrant. They're looking for something directly connected to a criminal investigation.

That's what a search warrant is. That's right. And it has to be supported by sufficient facts and circumstances to justify a judge having granted it. And that's important here because you think about all of what was in that affidavit. They would have had to explain what they're looking for, what their experience is, and why they think that they're going to find it on her devices, whether it's a phone, whether it's a laptop. You can't just go out and get a search warrant. You need to do all the background investigation that allows you to articulate with specificity what you're looking for, why you think it's going to be there, and then, of course, you need a judge to agree to all of that. So you have to imagine a lot of that background information that they already did led them to that point.

Bombshell. Investigators and law enforcement are looking to charge multiple suspects in the tragic ketamine death of Friends actor Matthew Perry. The criminal investigation into the death of Friends star Matthew Perry is ongoing. We've been told it's very close to being, quote, wrapped up. Will there be criminal charges as it relates to Perry's death? Right now, we know that his former girlfriend, sweetheart, Brooke Mueller, has been questioned repeatedly pursuant to search warrant. She has not been named a target in the investigation. Perry himself wrote about his addiction. Listen.

Matthew Perry wrote about his issues with addiction to alcohol and drugs. In his memoir, he said he began drinking at 14 and was an alcoholic by 18. Perry first went to rehab and completed a 28-day program at Hazelden Betty Ford Foundation after a jet ski accident led to an addiction to Vicodin. In his 2022 memoir, Friends, Lovers, and the Big Terrible Thing, Perry claimed to have been to rehab 15 times, detox 65 times, and spent about $7 to $9 million trying to get sober. You know what? I don't care about the money or the fame this guy had. He was living in hell trying to get out from under addiction. Okay. We know about him, but who is she Lauren Conlon in a nutshell? Brooke Mueller. Yes. Brooke Mueller is from Florida. She was actually born in upstate New York. She had a very wealthy stepfather and that led to her pretty much pursuing whatever she

wanted. She became friends with Paris Hilton. She did reality TV. She was an actress at one point, and then she did some real estate development and she ended up meeting Charlie Sheen. So to Dr. Bethany Marshall, that makes many of us regular mortals wonder when people have so much money born with a silver spoon in their mouth, her, I don't know that he was necessarily born with a single silver spoon in his mouth, but he became a superstar. Money, fame, suck ups all around you, seemingly having everything. Why drug addiction? You know, Nancy, drug addiction is very biologically motivated. You know, there's so much talk about trauma and family dysfunction and all the things that happen situationally

that prime people for addiction. But basically, there's a very strong biological component. So let's say you have the predisposition for addiction, and then you have to quote you suck ups all around you that really want you to not be aware of what's going on. Maybe con artists, maybe an agent or a manager who wants to push you into jobs you're not ready for. What is the best way to render somebody unaware of what you're doing if you want to take advantage of them? Supply them with drugs. Then they'll pay you.

Then you'll be their best friend. And, you know, doctors are not immune from this. We saw this with Michael Jackson. You know, celebrities, when they have this horrible, horrible disease state, they will go from one person to another to another until they find somebody who will supply them. And Nancy, I just want your audience to know that when an addict or a person suffering from addiction has had some period of sobriety, the next time they use, they will binge. Okay, that is so commonly known in the field. So let's take Whitney Houston, she may have been sober for a while before she had her, you know, overdose. When she came to Los Angeles, we could have seen this with Prince,

you know, so he was in an enormously vulnerable state because he was trying to get sober. So there was probably a big yo-yo between sobriety, binging, sobriety, binging, and that became a perfect storm that led to his death. It makes people wonder if superstars like Matthew Perry and actress Brooke Mueller with all that money can't be happy and resort to drugs and become addicts. What hope is there for the rest of us? You know what? I'm going to stick with being a teetotaler. I'm not even going to put my toe in that pond.

We wait as justice unfolds and this criminal investigation into the death of Friends star Matthew Perry comes to a culmination. But right now we stop and we remember an American hero, police officer Peter E.C. Jerving, Milwaukee PD, Wisconsin. Officer Jerving shot, killed in the line of duty. Survived by grieving parents Patty and Douglas and beloved sweetheart Megan. American hero, police officer Peter E.C. Jerving. I want to thank all of our guests tonight, a real brain trust, as we once again wade into addiction that ends in death.

Thank you for being with us. Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.