Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - GLAM MOM ANA WALSHE MISSING: Bizarre Ransom Note emerges

Episode Date: May 5, 2023

New evidence emerges in the case of missing Ana Walshe: a bizarre email claiming the mom has been kidnapped. At 5:18 a.m., Cohasset police received an email from a Gmail account. The email stated: "We have the so named Ana Walshe with us here... We had a deal worth $127,000.. she messed up...we have her here with us and if she doesn't pay the money. Then she'll never be back." There's no additional information, no instruction on where to leave the money and no way to contact the kidnappers. Husband Brian Walsh was arrested the next day.   Joining Nancy Grace Today: David Leroy -Attorney at Law (Boise, ID), Former Idaho Attorney General, Former Idaho Lieutenant Governor & Former Prosecutor (Ada County); Facebook: BoiseCriminalDefense Caryn Stark- Psychologist- Trauma and Crime expert- carynstark.com Twitter: @carnpsych Joseph Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet;" Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan"  Dr. Jan Gorniak - Medical Examiner, Clark County Office of the Coroner/Medical Examiner (Las Vegas, NV); Board Certified Forensic Pathologist Rachel Schilke - Breaking news reporter for The Washington Examiner; Twitter: @rachel_schilke   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace How does a beautiful young mom seemingly disappear into thin air, reportedly getting into an Uber or Lyft to catch a flight, and then she's never seen again, ever. She just evaporates. But then we find out there never was an Uber or a Lyft. Can't find any trace of an airplane flight planned.

Where is Anna Walsh, mother of three beautiful little boys, ages two, four, and six? In the last days, we learn about a very bizarre twist and the disappearance of this young mom, I find a very unusual, very curious ransom note. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111.

First of all, take a listen to our friends at WCVB. Another piece of evidence in the case, a bizarre email claiming Ana had been kidnapped. The day before Brian was arrested, at 5.18 in the morning, Cohasset Police received that message from a Gmail account stating,

we have the so-named Ana Walsh with us here. We had a deal worth $127,000. She messed up. We have her here with us, and if she doesn't pay the money, then she'll never be back. There is no additional information, but we know by this point,

police believe Brian had been lying to them. A ransom note. A ransom note. What, if anything, can we learn from this note we have the so named Anna Walsh with us here dot dot we had a deal worth one hundred twenty seven thousand dollars dot dot she messed up dot dot we have her here with us us and if she doesn't pay the money dot dot then she'll never be back. And we know that the police and the FBI are involved, dot, dot.

Good luck finding us. Who other than a librarian would use ellipsis, dot, dot, dot, to suggest an unfinished thought, switching to another theory, another topic. Who would use ellipses other than a school teacher or someone highly educated that knew how to use them correctly? And who would say the so-named, the so-named Anna Walsh. Who makes a deal for 127 grand? The wording so named.

In many ways, this reminds me of the faux ransom note in the JonBenet Ramsey case and I'll tell you why. In the Anna Walsh case we have ellipses. We have figure 127 thousand dollars we see blaming blaming blaming on a watch for quote messing up and welching on 127127,000 deal. Let's think about the bogus ransom note in the JonBenet Ramsey case. You have in that case an accent like an accent grave when you write fiance and you put the little accent mark over the e on the end. In that case, the accent was actually included on the word attache because whoever wrote the bogus ransom note reminded John Ramsey to bring an attache case big enough for the money as if he didn't know that. You also hear the word hence h-e-n-c-E used in the JonBenet bogus ransom note. Hence.

Who says hence? Not, okay, she pointed at me. Yes, occasionally I do use the word hence. But very rarely. Who do you know that says hence in common parlance, common talk? Nobody. But the author of that bogus ransom note in JonBenet Ramsey's case did. There was also a very unusual amount in that case for ransom, $118,000, precisely the amount of the bonus that Jon Ramsey had just gotten.

And there was shaming, shaming of Jon Ramsey. Don't try to grow a brain, John. Why? When I say bogus, it's because it was false. There was no ransom. I mean, who writes this big long ransom letter and a practice note right there in the home on Patsy Ramsey's notepad with Patsy Ramsey's pen, and then somewhere in the night goes, you know what? Forget the ransom. I'm just going to kill this child and leave her right here in the basement. My whole plan for ransom. Forget it. As in this case, do you really believe there was a legitimate ransom? Okay. I'm comparing it right now to the JonBenet Ramsey case, but let's take a listen to our cut 77. There's a note left in our daughter's phone. A note was left in your daughter's phone?

Yes. How old is your daughter? Six years old. She's five. Six years old. How long ago was this? I don't know. I just found the note. Oh my God. Does it say who took her? What?

Does it say who took her? I don't know. There's a ransom note here. It's a ransom note? It says FBTC. Victory. Yeah, that ransom note sounded like a fifth grade girl was writing a mystery romance novel and came up with that ransom note

in the JonBenet Ramsey case. And let me be clear, I have never had the theory that Burke Ramsey the brother of John Bonnet had anything at all to do with her death that's a fantastical theory and it was from the beginning even statistically I also for forensic reasons do not believe John Ramsey the father had anything to do with John Bonnet's death. But we see right there in the beginning with the 911 call it's all about the ransom note. We're hearing about a ransom note in the very very beginning. But what else do we know about that ransom note? And from that note, what can we extrapolate in the Anna Walsh case? Take a listen to our cut 78, our friends at ABC.

As she headed down this spiral staircase, something catches her eye. Several pieces of paper. There were three pages neatly laid across one of the runs of the stairway. Pages scrawled with a handwrittenwritten heart-stopping message. It was a ransom note. Of all of the evidence left behind, that ransom note is the most baffling. Reporter Diane Diamond has covered the story from the beginning. She says the author of the ransom note seemed to know a lot about the family. The demand for $118,000 was close to the exact amount of John Ramsey's bonus that year. A ransom note is not that long.

A ransom note says, I have your child. I want a million dollars. I'll call you later. This is two and a half pages long. Whoever does that. And the positioning of that note caught the eye of Patsy Ramsey as she heads down the spiral staircase. She's the one that finds the note clearly placed on the spiral staircase. Obviously, the kidnapper did not have a problem hanging around at the crime scene. No concern he she would be caught. With me an all-star panel to

make sense of what we know right now, but first i want to go to breaking news investigative reporter for the washington examiner rachel shilke rachel thank you for being with us explain to us where how was the ransom note communicated in the anna walsh case it's such an interesting piece of evidence to come forward that sometimes i don't even fully understand it myself but the way that it was presented to me is that you know police detectives received an email from this random gmail account and then obviously as we heard we heard the message read and a lot of former fbi agents and a lot of even current detectives have said that the ransom note just seems to be very odd. There is a very specific dollar amount. There is a very poor use of English.

There is this weird, as you mentioned, Nancy, that those ellipses is just a very odd thing to happen. And it arrived on January 7th. And this was a few days after she was reported missing and so it's it's almost too on it's too likely to be coincidental well I don't find any improper grammar though we have this so named Anna Walsh with us here we had a deal worth 127,000 dollars she messed up we have her here with us as if there's more than one person and if she doesn't pay the money then she'll never be back and we know that the police and the fbi are involved good luck finding us it's kind of like a little talk there at the end i find something

that rachel shilkey just said very very probative in other words, it proves something. Take a listen to our cut 66, our friends at WBZ. On January 7th, days after Ana disappeared, a Cohasset detective says he received an email from a Richard Walker. That person wrote, quote, We have the so-named Ana Walsh with us here. We had a deal worth $127,000. She messed up. We have her here with us. And if she doesn't pay the money, then she'll never be back. And we know that the police and the FBI are involved. Good luck finding us, close quote. So police say they were immediately

suspicious because there were no instructions on how or when to respond. How or when to respond. Same thing as in JonBenet and in so many other cases with ransom notes. What kind of ransom note is it if it doesn't tell you how you're supposed to pay the ransom or how you're supposed to get the missing person back? back. Pause for a big thank you to our partner making today's program possible. It's Fox Nation and its brand new series, Scampreneur. Hey, do you love a good con artist story? Then you need to check out the new Fox Nation series, Scampreneur. This series takes a deep dive into the outrageous lies and elaborate scams pulled off by three master manipulators, Elizabeth Holmes, Carrie Farrell, and Anthony Gignac.

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Don't miss this incredible series, Scampreneur, streaming now on Fox Nation. Thanks, Fox Nation, for being our partner. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Joining me right now, Professor of Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet, on Amazon, and star of a hit new series, Body Bags, with Joe Scott Morgan. Joe Scott, there's a lot wrong with this ransom note. Yeah, a tremendous amount. But then again, I have to wonder, relative to the origins of this note, and a big question that I have, Nancy, is the specific detective that received this note. Detective Harrison Schmidt. Right. And, you know, detectives have, in larger departments, they'll have very specialized jobs.

You know, you worked in Atlanta for a long time. You dealt with robbery detectives, burglary detectives, certainly homicide detectives. Is he kind of, in a smaller department, an overarching detective that handles crimes against persons or crimes against property? would he have been a central point of interest for somebody that would want to send a ransom note to that they knew that it would get into his hands because there's a potential he might specifically be working a case and you know is it targeted at that detective specifically and you can learn i think a lot about the person that generated this note based upon that did you notice the 127 000 i'm comparing that to the 118 000 in the john

case it's a very unusual and specific amount it's not 250 000 it's not um a hundred thousand it's not one million it's very very significant yeah yeah, it is. And sometimes you wonder, I think, in a lot of cases like this, is that a number that's simply placed in there? Could any number have fit? Is it something that they're arbitrarily throwing out? I mean, you know, you recited chapter and verse regarding the Ramsey case, and people know about this case everywhere. You've got a six-digit figure here that's being thrown out. It seems rather random. You think about the familial history. What was the financial standing of this family?

What was her financial standing? What was her personal wealth? Had she recently received those kinds of monies that someone would have been aware of? Again, as a detective, going back and digging into their personal accounts and understanding what their balances were and everything from money market accounts

to savings accounts that they might have is certainly important. I know that Harrison Schmidt, as of recently, was a sergeant. Now he is a detective but I'm thinking about the sending of the email to a police detective with no instructions about how to transfer the money referring to quote us blaming on a waltz she messed up guys it's certainly not the first time a ransom note has taken center stage in an investigation do i have to say frank sinatra

jr take a listen our cut 79 our friends at inside edition Frank Jr. inherited his father's looks and velvet voice. When Jr. was just 19, he was kidnapped at a casino in Lake Tahoe. The horrifying ordeal of Frank Sinatra Jr. began while he was filling an engagement at Lake Tahoe. The mastermind was a troubled young man named Barry Keenan. He knew I was dangerous. He knew I was just one crack away from killing everybody or not killing me. He didn't know, but he could tell I was crazy. Inside Edition spoke to Barry Keenan in 2004. Keenan and two cronies were paid a ransom of $240,000, the equivalent of $1.8 million today.

The thugs released Junior on an LA.A. freeway overpass. Then he walked home to the family's mansion in Bel Air. I was scared. I was a little bit nervous, naturally, but the only thing I can do is hope for the best. Keenan was caught and spent five years in prison. You know, David Leroy, joining me, high-profile lawyer out of Boise,

former Idaho Attorney General, former Lieutenant Governor, me high profile lawyer out of Boise former Idaho attorney general former lieutenant governor now private attorney at dleroy.com did you notice in Sinatra and even in the John Bonet case the ransom note is sent to the person's going to pay the money, not the cops. So if you then extrapolate from there, why didn't the kidnapper send the ransom note to Brian Walsh? He's going to be paying the money. Why send it to a detective? Well, if Brian Walsh was the author, it might make some sense of a great and compelling nature. But Nancy, you know, we do know exactly who sent this email.

It was Richard Walker, but it wasn't just Richard Walker. It was Richard Walker with another random number, 9984. As you know, sometimes those numbers too in an internet address mean something. What does 9984 mean? Good point.

David Leroy joining us. and i want to go back to joseph scott morgan joe scott is it this is from a gmail address how hard is it to track down the ip provider i mean when you go about tracking down an email it's not rocket science it's not brain surgery i mean explain uh in a rudimentary fashion how an ip address is obtained from an email yeah and uh you know the point of origin that this look you and i could sit down we could actually have a race right now to see who could set up a gmail account the quickest because it's something that's so very easily done but when we set these up there's going to be a specific identifier that will lead back to the device uh whether it be a computer terminal or perhaps our phone

that will be distinct to us that they will be able to track down and identify. K-I-S-S. Keep it simple. Well, no, I mean, it is simple. I can't even fix my mouth to call you stupid, so I won't do that. IP address. How easy is it to track an IP address? It's an individual personal identification, and it's very simple for them to do. Particularly, look, the guy that wrote this or gal.

When they wrote this, they said, we know the FBI is involved in this. Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait, let's not bring God into this. OK, watch your mouth. OK, go ahead. Duly noted. Yeah, my gosh. It would have been their poking the bear, you know, because what the FBI and other federal agencies can bring to bear, particularly when it comes to kidnapping Nancy, and you know better than anybody that this is their jurisdiction, they're going to bring all of their efforts to bear in this particular case. They can run this op- this out very, very simply

to get into the guts of whoever did this. My suspicion is that they know the point of origin of this Gmail account by this time. And now this information has come out. I'm sure that they've already probably tied this back to someone. I got another tidbit for you, but I think I need to shrink on this. Let's go to Karen Stark, renowned psychologist, joining us out of Manhattan. You can find her at karenstark.com. That's Karen with a C from Richard Walker. Wasn't that his name, Rachel Schilke? The person that

reportedly sent the ransom email was Richard Walker? Yes, that's right. Okay. Hey, and Rachel Schilke, we're all experts in our own right. You're the one that knows the facts the best, so when we get it wrong, please just jump in. Don't hesitate. Karen Stark.

Yes. I was with you when I started writing my first fiction called 11th Victim. And it was largely based on a mishmash, a collage of people I had met, defendants, killers, defense lawyers, crazy nuts in the courthouse. And there was a woman that I patterned after a former co-anchor

who was single and was on the dating scene. And I, based on all these cases we were covering at Court TV, made up a guy who had a fake email. And I based it actually on an allergist who murdered his wife. He had the fake email of casualguy2000. Ugh, whatever. But have you noticed when people create their own alias? Remember Anthony Weiner? Wasn't his alias Carlos Danger? Please correct that. I don't think I'm wrong because that's the kind of thing that just sticks in your head and you can't get rid of it. when he would be texting underage girls, Carlos Danger, I think.

Anyway, there's a lot to be analyzed by using the fake name of Richard Walker. Well, there's a lot to be analyzed when anyone is using the fake name, Nancy. I mean, some people have other emails because they want a lot of their scam stuff to go somewhere else but in this case you really have to analyze why why would someone do it and i am positive they can get to the bottom of where that came from i remember a friend of mine the boyfriend she actually thought she was going to marry thank goodness she she didn't. Was dating her exclusively. But would have all of these fake email addresses. Where he would write women all over the country.

All over the world. With fake names. And make himself sound very adventurous. And handsome. I can't remember. Yeah, I think he may have used a fake picture. I can't remember that part. I think he may have used a fake picture. I can't remember that part. But everything he wanted to be was how he presented himself to all of these women all

over the world. And I'm thinking about choosing the name Richard Walker. Now, of course, in the Frank Sinatra case, here's another important distinction. They really actually wanted the money as opposed to the JonBenet Ramsey case. They didn't want the money. That was subterfuge because they said, hey, I'll just kill her. Forget about the money. What's the main point of a kidnap by ransom is to get the ransom, right? Exactly. So in Frank Sinatra,

they wanted the money and they got the money. We got another case, the name Getty, as in Paul Getty, the richest person ever to live. There was a ransom, a kidnap, and a ransom note.

But just because you ask the richest person in the world for money does not mean you're going to get it. Take a listen to my long time friend jim morate inside edition in our cut 80. he was the richest man in the world but when billionaire john paul getty's 16 year old grandson was kidnapped he refused to pay a dime in ransom the real kidnapping in italy in 1973 made headlines around the world the teenagers distraught mom pleaded with the kidnappers. Only when the kidnappers cut off the boy's ear did his grandfather agree to pay,

but only as much as he could deduct from his taxes, $2.2 million. The rest of the ransom, $700,000, was deemed a loan. The teenager had to pay back with 4% interest this was the dramatic scene when the boy was released and reunited with his mother but there was no happy ending he OD'd and suffered a stroke when he was just 24 and he spent the rest of his life in a wheelchair he died in 2011 so I guess the takeaway is thanks grandpa kind of another ransom ransom that where they actually really He died in 2011. So I guess the takeaway is thanks, Grandpa. Kind of. Another ransom note where they actually really wanted the money.

But let's think about it. Rachel Schilke joining me, breaking news reporter for The Washington Examiner on this case in the very beginning. I didn't understand that Brian Walsh and Anna Walsh had a lot of money. I mean, he was committing art fraud with Andy Warhol paintings to get money, thousands of dollars of money, and had been convicted. Now, his dad had money, and he kind of swindled his dad out of money, didn't he? Yeah, he did, and I remember that was a big part of this case that kind of proved that his character was a little shifty, and that helped investigators kind of look in his direction. Now we've heard a lot of figures thrown around about the Walsh's net worth but if they were worth a lot of money why would Anna Walsh be traveling from

home all the way to DC to work and really killing herself trying to make money if they had money. So if they don't have a lot of money, why would a perp come up with $127,000? Ransom notes are real. Kidnappings are real. One particular ransom note just put a chill down my spine. It was sent by who we now know to be a serial killer, one of the most prolific serial killers in U.S. history, Israel Keyes. And he kidnapped a gorgeous young Alaskan barista from her coffee stand out in the middle of a parking lot. Nobody could see anything because snow banks were up around the old coffee drive-thru, so nobody saw the kidnap. All that was left was

an Americano cup of coffee that was being prepared on the counter where Samantha was making the customer's request, and then she was kidnapped. A ransom note was sent in that case. Take a listen to our cut five method of a serial killer. Then two and a half weeks after Samantha's abduction, there's a chilling turn in the case. Her boyfriend just goes sheet white. He's got his phone and there's a text from her phone. Basically it says Connors Park underneath Albert Pick, ain't she pretty. Authorities race to Connors Lake underneath Albert Pick. Ain't she pretty? Authorities race to Connors Lake Park, just five miles southwest of downtown Anchorage, not knowing what's waiting for them. When you enter that park, there's a bulletin board.

And tacked was a Ziploc bag that had what ultimately was a photograph of Samantha and a ransom note. The fact that there was a ransom note really ratchets up the tension because, okay, she's alive and what are we going to do to get her back? Well, that's one ransom note that I'll never forget, particularly because of a very, let me say, grainy photo of Samantha Koenig, the victim,

that was part of the note. Take a listen to our friends at Oxygen. Text message sent from Samantha's phone directs investigators to their biggest clue yet, a ransom note with a picture of the missing girl. In the photograph, Samantha was bound tape on her mouth, but it was obviously intentionally made fuzzier. So they took the photograph to her father for him to identify it. He, after looking at it for a long time, said, yes, that's Samantha. But her hair was in a braid, and Samantha never wore her hair that way. In the ransom note, Samantha's kidnapper demands $30,000 be placed in her bank account. This is really our biggest break because we know that we can still potentially have contact with the person responsible for taking Samantha. Authorities work with her dad to deposit a portion of the ransom

and then they wait. I told them he's going to use her debit card. If he was going to do something stupid, that was going to be the one thing he did that was stupid because we could find him. The reason the photo of Samantha was so blurry is because in that photo she was already dead Israel keys had braided her hair not realizing that she would never have worn her hair that way and had never worn her hair that way he applied makeup to her face and he stitched her eyelids open, blurred the photo and sent it to make it appear as if she were alive. He wanted the money. Now let's talk about what we've got right here in this case regarding this ransom note, not other bogus ransom notes, but this case. So, you know, Justice Scott Morgan, what else can we learn from what we know about this ransom note? How is it going to catch?

How are we going to catch you? I believe to be a killer by using this ransom note. Well, when you consider the context of the note, it's very taunting, isn't it? And I think that what you're going to have is somebody that's rather bold. Because you said earlier on, Nancy, that this was not sent to somebody that could produce money in order to facilitate her release. You're talking about a police officer. We don't know if the individual is random or not, or if they were specifically targeted, but it was somebody who generated

this thing that they were brave enough and bold enough to send it directly to a law enforcement agency. That's a big tell for me. I don't recall ever in any case that I've ever heard of where a ransom note has been issued, where it's sent to a law enforcement agency as opposed to a group of people that could facilitate cash, you know, bringing about cash, bringing it in a satchel, dropping it off a bridge or leaving it in a drop box or someplace. This is sent to a police officer. So that gives you an idea, I think, at least. I don't want to get too far off into the weeds and Karen's area, but there's a real boldness here. So I think that whoever did this has got, let's say, an ironclad constitution. And again, why send it to police? Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Joining me also is a renowned medical examiner

joining us out of the Vegas jurisdiction Dr. Jan Gorniak Dr. Gorniak, it's a real honor to have you joining us today. Dr. Gorniak, please take a listen to Our Cut 59 from NBC10. He was also captured visiting dumpsters at apartment complexes. By the time detectives searched them, most of them had been emptied and the contents incinerated. But in Swampscott, investigators found a number of items belonging to Anna, as well as some of the items Mr. Walsh had purchased. The hacksaw that had red-brown staining in several areas, when it was disassembled, a small fragment of bone was recovered. The Tyvek suit had a red-brown stain on the exterior. The stain was tested,

and Anna Walsh's DNA was determined to be a contributor. Brian Walsh's defense attorney claims evidence testing so far has been inconclusive. Well, you can't rule him out. The conclusion was you can't rule him in. Dr. Jane Gorniak, as I said, renowned medical examiner, joining us out of Clark County, office of the coroner. Dr. Gorniak, we don't have a body yet I believe Anna Walsh is dead. I also believe she was dismembered. Explain to me how difficult it really is in real life, not on Dexter, not on some April TV movie. How difficult is it to dismember a human body? Well, I've never done it. I would assume it would be very difficult because, one, you would have to know anatomy, the easier place to, and I don't want to give away how to dismember a body on your show, but to be able to know where the joints are.

But depending on the implement that you're using, it's going to take a while and it's going to be tiring. I've had a couple of dismembered decedents in my career where sometimes you even see like a post-mortem stab wound where the person like used the leg as a pin cushion because they had to put the knife down. So it would be very difficult, especially without knowing the anatomy and like I said, the implement that you're using to cut through not only the skin, but also the bone. Would that explain the tiny bone fragment still attached to a hacksaw found in a dumpster

near Brian Walsh's mother's condo? Absolutely. So obviously the hacksaw isn't clean, but you're going to get, you know, you can see the striations of the hacksaw, so you're going to actually have tissue that is stuck within those teeth of the blade. Nancy, Dave Leroy here.

Another allegation or component of the blade. Nancy, Dave Leroy here. Another allegation or component of the ransom note that may tie into the husband's involvement is the phrase, she messed up. Did she mess up in a real estate deal or did she mess up by having an affair on the husband? Wow, that's a really good point. To Rachel Schilke, a lot hasilke, joining us from the Washington Examiner, a lot has been made of her affair. Rachel, I want you to hear our cut 48, our friend Nick Giovanni, WBZ. In December of 2022, it had become evident that Mr. Walsh was suspecting his wife of having an affair his mother did hire a private investigator shortly before new year's that um that year she told mr walsh that she was doing that he said she was crazy on as a good girl but go ahead

he'll be proved wrong prosecutors then went through the timeline from when Anna Walsh was last seen to when they say Brian first reported her missing. So, Rachel Schilke, I don't think there's any doubt that Anna was having an affair at the time she was murdered. Could that be what the ransom note author was describing when he says she messed up? So, Rachel Schililke i've got another question a timing question when was the bone on the hacksaw found and when did this ransom note when was it sent to detective schmidt well the the note was sent on january 7th so that's about four days three days after she was reported missing on january 4th and i believe the hacksaw was found a week later maybe even a few days later that would be something i would have to be fact-checked

on by anyone else on the panel but um i remember that that the note was sent before the hacksaw was found so much like the john bonnet ramsey bogus ransom note here we've got an alleged ransom note and then they seem to think better of it and go oh to hay with i'm just gonna kill her it doesn't make sense or does it i want to go back to dismembering to Nancy. Yeah, I was just going to you. Have you Karen Stark? And I know that you don't. I mean, you're in Manhattan.

You do order. You order food. But have you ever tried to cut apart a chicken, an actual chicken and cook it? I'm not good. So no. Okay. I knew that was coming. I knew that was coming. knew that was coming i knew that

you knew hold on i thought i knew but i thought i'd just throw it out there on a leap of faith joseph morgan a lot of people don't even want to cut apart a chicken to cook it i'm one of them yeah they're proof so my point is who goes through all of that to dismember a body? And this is after they just sent a ransom note? Nancy, I would like to jump in and say that I did my own little fax checking on myself, and the hacksaw was actually found on January 8th. So that was one day after the ransom note was sent. Thank you.

Let me make a note of that. What about that, everybody? So as Rachel Schilke from washington examiner has enlightened us the note is sent jan 7 and before 24 hours have passed she's already dismembered and the evidence thrown away coincidentally near brian walsh's mother's condo in that dumpster so the kidnapper says oh you know forget about the 127 grand i I'm just going to kill her. What about it, Joe Scott? And then go through all that to dismember a body.

The only thing I can think of is that whoever is facilitating this is making this happen. And that includes the dismemberment and the generating of this note. They are trying to put the police off scent. They're trying to put them off the path of trying to find this woman. You know, at this point, I believe that they still believe that she, there might be a hope that she was still with us, that she was still alive. And so you throw all of this data out there and they become very, very confused, or at least they hope that the police will be very confused.

Keep in mind who the note was sent to. Not sent to some family member or somebody else that might have cash that these individuals be aware of. But it was sent to an investigator, Nancy. To me, that speaks volumes. You know, when you begin to think about, they want to insert themselves into the middle of the investigation as it's ongoing. Nancy. Yes. I want to go along with what Justice Scott said, because this is a very bold person.

And when I think about her husband, he was somebody who was willing to try and pass a fake art. He actually had real. Andy Warhol. Like like you can't identify that a mile away. So he was very bold. Nothing scared him. Guys, the crux of the information regarding the ransom note, have police and FBI already figured this out? If not, take a listen to our experts today. We wait as the case unfolds. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.