Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - GLAM PHD STUDENT 29, “TORTURES” FRIEND’S TWIN BABY DEAD, SHOCKED SHE MAY BE PUNISHED

Episode Date: August 29, 2024

Ethan Katz and Savannah Roberts have much to celebrate. It’s not only Father’s Day weekend and Ethan’s birthday weekend, but also the couple’s anniversary. Savannah recently gave birth to their twin sons, now 6 weeks old. Family friend Nicole Virzi traveled from San Diego to Pittsburgh to visit and lend a helping hand. While caring for the twin boys, Ari and Leon, Nicole Virzi tells the parents she noticed unusual injuries on Ari’s genitals. Around 6:30 p.m., the new parents take Ari to the hospital, leaving their other son, Leon Katz, in Virzi’s care. Just after 11 p.m., Ethan Katz and Savannah Roberts receive a call from Nicole Virzi, informing them that while she was in the kitchen preparing a bottle for Leon, the baby fell from his bouncer seat and hit his head. Nicole Virzi tells the 911 dispatcher that Leon fell from a bassinet, hit his head, and is becoming unresponsive. When the police arrive, Virzi tells them she fell asleep with the baby in his bouncer seat. When she wakes up, she goes to the kitchen to prepare a bottle. While she is out of the room, she hears Leon screaming and finds him on the floor with a bump on his head. She tells the police he fell out of his bouncer seat. Rushed to the hospital, doctors discover Leon Katz has a severe skull fracture on the left side of his head and multiple brain bleeds. The injuries suffered by the 6-week-old baby prove fatal, and he is pronounced dead the next morning at Children’s Hospital. Police say Virzi has no “plausible explanation” for the severity of Leon’s injuries. Upon examining the bouncer seat, detectives report that it is about 18 inches from the highest point of the seat to the floor. Doctors inform investigators about the injuries sustained by Leon’s twin brother, Ari. He has small scratches on both sides of his face, two bruises below his belly button, and swelling, bruising, redness, and scratches on his genitals. The doctor who examined the injuries to both boys states they are consistent with child abuse, noting that these injuries were inflicted and not accidental. All of Leon’s injuries are described as “acute." Joining Nancy Grace today: Kelly Hyman – Trial & Civil Attorney (Miami, FL); TV Legal Analyst; Author: “Build Back Better;” X: @kellyhyman1, TikTok: @kelly.hyman, Instagram: @Kelly_Hyman1 Dr. John Delatorre –  Licensed Psychologist and Mediator (specializing in forensic psychology); Psychological Consultant to Project Absentis: a nonprofit organization that searches for missing persons; Twitter, IG, and TikTok – @drjohndelatorre Dr. Melissa Merrick - President & CEO of Prevent Child Abuse America, www.preventchildabuse.org and www.healthyfamiliesamerica.org' Facebook & YouTube: Prevent Child Abuse, X & IG: @PCAAMERICA Dr. Kendall Crowns – Chief Medical Examiner Tarrant County (Ft Worth) and Lecturer: University of Texas Austin and Texas Christian University Medical School Gabriella DeLuca - TV News Reporter, WPXI in Pittsburgh, PA; X: @GabriellaDeLuca, IG: WPXIgabrielladeluca    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A glam PhD student, 29, volunteers to babysit. Ends up, she tortures her dear friend's twin baby boy dead, according to reports. And now she's shocked. She may be punished. That's right. In that jurisdiction on death row, there are no women, much less a glamorous young PhD student. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. A Pittsburgh family with newborn twin babies asks a longtime friend to babysit. Matters take a turn for the worse. I know how difficult it is to have twins,

to give birth to twins, to keep them alive. These two twin baby boys had been yearned for, sought after for so long. And now mommy and daddy, amazingly, this occurred on daddy's first father's day and mommy's and daddy's anniversary. What exactly happened? How did it all start? Listen. Calling 911 around 1115 p.m., Nicole Verzi tells the dispatcher that Leon has fallen from a bassinet

and bumped his head and is becoming unresponsive. When police arrive, Verzi tells police she falls asleep with the baby in his bouncer seat. When she wakes up, she goes to get a bottle from the kitchen for the baby. While she is out of the room, she hears Leon screaming and finds him on the floor with a bump on his head. She tells police he fell out of his bouncer seat. Fell out of a bouncer seat.

You know, the bouncy kind that you have the baby with a seatbelt buckled in. With me and All Star Panel to make sense of what we know right now, but first straight out to Gabriela DeLuca, investigative news reporter on television, WPXI. Gabriela, thank you for being with us. A couple of quick questions, then I'm going to move forward. The bouncy seat, it's my understanding it was 18 inches off the ground. That little bouncy seat, that one, is that correct? 18 inches? Objectives came in and actually measured the top of that seat to the bottom and it came out to 18 inches. But keep in mind when Verzi first called 911, he actually said that it was a bassinet. So we have a bouncy seat.

You're right on again, Gabriela DeLuca. I was just headed toward the possibility that a child could bounce out like a trampoline of a bouncy seat. And I had both of my twins had bouncy seats. They had the swings. They had the bouncy seats. They had it all. And they come with seat belts that said 18 inches. And I didn't know where that 18 inch number came from. And you just enlightened me. I'm going to get to the conflicting stories in a moment. And you know how I feel

when people change their stories, not add to their story. That's fine. Changing your story. Not so much. But the 18 inches. No. How can you have this massive degree of brain injury from falling this far, this far? That's not going to happen. OK, so that's where we leave off. Let's take a look at the ride to the hospital. Listen. Rushed to the hospital, doctors discover Leon Katz has a severe skull fracture to the left side of his head and multiple brain bleeds. The injury suffered by the six-week-old baby proved fatal and he's pronounced dead the next morning at Children's Hospital. Police say Versi has no plausible explanation for the severity of Leon's injuries. Examining the bouncer seat, detectives report that it's about 18 inches from the tallest point of the seat to the floor.

That's right. Gabriela DeLuca from WPXI told us that. And I guarantee you those measurements are correct in a situation like this. Joining me in all-star panel, in addition to Gabriella DeLuca, WPXI, I want to go straight to a longtime colleague, now friend, the esteemed chief medical examiner of Tarrant County, that's Fort Worth. And I can guarantee you this, never a lack of business for the medical examiner and Dallas Fort Worth area. Also a lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine at TCU Dr. Kendall Crowns joining us Dr. Crowns thank you for taking time out of your schedule and addressing this issue many of us have heard of CHI closed head

injuries I coined CHI closed head homicidal injuries, closed head injuries that end in homicide charges. But before I get to that an acronym, I want to talk to you about the possibility of the severity of baby Leon. Oh, by the way, I'm going to circle back to Gabriella DeLuca because the other baby is also injured. This couple has two children like me, two twins like me. They're infants. One is rushed to the hospital and the other has severe injuries to its genitals. Okay. This woman steps in the apartment. Everything's fine. And in five hours, everything's gone haywire. Wow. What's the common denominator there? Her, her, the babysitter, the glam, as many people call her, not me, them, the glamorous Ph.D. student, Dr. Kendall Crowns. The likelihood of baby Leon's injuries to be that severe from one fall from an 18-inch bouncy seat.

Closed head injuries from 18-inch fall is highly unlikely. If a child was to get closed head injuries from a fall of that nature, then when they're learning how to walk and they'd fall, we'd have a lot more children having closed head injuries. So another thing you have to think about is a baby's skull is kind of pliable because they're still growing and it hasn't turned to full bone yet. So really an 18-inch fall could have startled the child, could have made him cry, but it shouldn't have caused any injuries internally whatsoever. When you're seeing that, it's usually there's... Slow down, slow down, slow down. Dr. Kendall Crowns, I can see I'm going to have to work with you before I put you on the stand

because everything you said is so probative for me, every sentence, and I don't want to rush it. I'm usually 90 MPH, but when you talk, I need to dissect every sentence. Now, you mentioned something about a baby of this age, head not being fully formed. What does that mean, number one? And number two, what does it help me prove, if anything? That's really all I care about when it comes to facts. Can I use it in court? Is it probative?

Does it prove anything? So a baby's skull at that age still has what are called fontanelles or soft spots. And they're kind of at the top of the head, a little bit towards the back. And that's so the baby's head connects. Is that where the baby hair swirl is? It can be. You know how the hair starts a little swirl back here? You call that a fontanel? Fontanel, yeah.

So as the child's head, as the child matures, their brain gets bigger, the skull itself grows with it. And the skull at this time period isn't fully hardened bone. It's bone, but it's still kind of very pliable. So it can take a lot of changes. Is it like cartilage? Somewhat. Somewhat like cartilage, but it's not cartilage. It's just very young bone. But anyway, it's very pliable. Well, does it have the elasticity of cartilage, like the cartilage in your

nose or your ear? I know it's bone pliable. Does it have the elasticity of cartilage like the cartilage in your nose or your ear? I know it's bone, but is it elastic or pliable or movable like the cartilage in your ear? Yes. Baby skulls are very bendable. They can take a lot of change in shape or deformation and they won't break. So when you see a skull fracture or a close head injury with a baby, there's a lot of force behind it. It isn't going to be from an 18 inch fall because if it was, all of us would have died from head injury as babies because we all have falls. So when you see an injury like that, you know that there's some sort of slamming force or something like that that has occurred. You said it's practically impossible for baby Leon.

And remember, he's just six weeks old. He's the one with a severe skull fracture to the left side of his head with multiple brain bleeds. Ari is the twin with a bloody, mysterious injury to genitals, penis swollen, bruises below the belly button and scratches on his face. I'll get to that in a moment. But these two little boys, you're saying it's almost impossible or is it impossible for a child six weeks old, can't crawl, to fleeing, eject himself from a car seat, from a baby bouncer, 18 inches in height, and die, to put it simply. Unless there was some sort of congenital abnormality or birth defect, yes, it's impossible for that to have occurred.

Okay, we already know that none of that existed. So it's impossible for it to have occurred. Look, I'm a JD, not a DDS. Don't know how to pull teeth. But I do have a set of pliers here. So are you saying it would be impossible? For him to have ejected and have enough force or velocity or speed to hit the ground and break his skull and get hemorrhage of his brain, and he's completely normal? Yes, that would be impossible.

Right now, so many thoughts are colliding in my head. And I'm so grateful for you, Dr. Kendall Crowns, because I'm thinking about the little baby brother growing up his whole life, knowing he had a twin that was killed. The parents, this happening on the baby Ari's birthday on the day that Leon was killed? How can they celebrate their anniversary on that day? I mean, you know, I'm projecting a lot, Dr. Kendall Crowns, but I know on August the 6th, the day that my fiance was murdered, I don't know, this is crazy, right? And I'm not superstitious at all. But I feel like whatever I do that day is just going to be jinxed and wrong.

I don't like my twins driving. I don't want to take a trip. Just I can't really describe it. It doesn't make sense. But I'm glad I've got you and the rest of our guests to keep me grounded in these facts and not project.

So back to the injuries. Listen. Doctors tell investigators about the injuries suffered by Leon's twin brother, Ari. He has small scratches on both sides of his face, two bruises below his belly button, and swelling, bruising, redness, and scratches to his genitals. The doctor who examined the injuries to both boys says they are consistent with having been sustained as a result of child abuse, as these were inflicted injuries that are not natural and not accidental, noting that all of Leon's injuries were acute. Acute. Gabriela DeLuca has all the facts leading up to this moment, but I want to quickly address closed head homicidal injuries. I want to go straight out to

Dr. Melissa Merrick, President and CEO of Prevent Child Abuse America. And you can find her at preventchildabuse.org. Okay, Dr. Merrick, thank you for being with us. Many people are suspicious of closed head injuries, especially closed head injuries that result in death and subsequent homicide charges. You look at the baby and the baby seems fine because it's closed head. The head is not split open. Explain this.

Yeah, thanks. It can be, you know, we think about child abuse and we think that there will always be a bruise or a broken bone or something that we can see. And we know that there was harm, but actually, especially in babies this young, under the age of one, that's the time that's riskiest for child abuse, the most prevalent, and most of our child abuse deaths happen under the age of one. And that's because, as you said, that some of the injuries you don't see.

So like shaken baby syndrome, for example, that's a serious brain injury resulting from forcefully shaking an infant. And like Dr. Crowns already explained, you know, the baby's brain is pliable and still working out and you shake all that up and brain cells can die. There can be permanent damage and even death. Never, ever shake a baby because we may not see it, but it can really cause tremendous harm. Exactly. Now, Kelly Hyman joining us, a renowned trial lawyer and TV legal analyst.

She's the host of Once Upon a Crime in Hollywood. That's a podcast. Kelly, thank you for being with us. Everything Melissa just said, Dr. Merrick said is correct. This is not a shaken baby syndrome incident, but everything she said was correct. Is it difficult to prove a case when a jury looks at a baby's picture and it doesn't look like anything's wrong with the baby? All the damage is internal. Experts are going to be key in this case, Nancy. So the experts are going to take

the witness stand and tell a story and tell exactly what happened and what transpired. Now, the defendant is innocent until proven guilty, and they will have a time to cross-examine that person and poke holes in that. But that is going to be key in order to substantiate the case, because the state brings the case, the Commonwealth, and they have the burden of proof and need to prove every single element of the crime. And the experts are going to be key taking the stand and telling what happened from their perspective. Savannah and Ethan Katz entrust longtime friend Nicole Veerzy to care for newborn twins. Then Veerzy calls to inform them of strange injuries found on one of the babies.

That was just the beginning. I've got to understand the timeline here. Let me go to Gabriela DeLuca, investigative TV news reporter, WPXI. Gabriella, thank you for being with us. Let me understand this. When you first read a headline about this, it always says babysitter. She wasn't really the babysitter. She was a very dear family friend going back several years.

And on her break from school where she was getting her psych degree, psychology degree, she got a break, I guess spring break, and chose to use that break to visit the cat's family. Now, she is in school and she teaches spin classes, correct? The bicycle spin classes, right? That's what she does. That's what we understand. Yes. Gabriella. So she comes to visit. She rents an Airbnb just a few blocks away from the Katz family and goes over to visit. And the next thing you know, all H-E-L-L breaks loose. She hasn't been in that house over an hour before, let me just say, it hits the fan. Give me the timeline, Gabriella DeLuca. So here's what we understand. Investigators are saying that she came into town and from what we are gathering, she came to almost have a celebration.

Again, it was Father's Day. It was the anniversary. And you have these beautiful twin baby boys. Well, you know, I have twins myself. You know how tired, and Nancy, so do you. So you know how tired you get. You kind of get the idea that she's there to help out. So the mother, I believe, goes down for a nap, according to police. So it's the father and this woman who are taking care of the babies that day. I understand that she is, according to police, changing the baby's diaper, Ari's diaper, in the hallway of their rooms. Okay, wait a minute. Did you say mommy's taking a nap?

Yes. Mom, according to police, was taking a nap. Oh, gosh. And, you know, I didn't know you were the mom of two twins. That's a luxury. That's unbelievable that in the middle of the day, you get to close your eyes for 45 minutes together. So the mom's taking a nap. And then the next thing you know, what happens? So what we understand from police is that Nicole is changing the baby's diaper and then notices these injuries to the baby. We're talking scratches, bruises below the belly button, and then some sort of injury to the baby's genital area. There was swelling, and there was also blood in the diaper she apparently tells according to police the father of the baby about these injuries and that's right there that is probative that proves

something to me gabriella deluca she's the one that tells the father because see a lot of people say oh well the father was with the baby. No, the father was not with the baby. Nicole Verzi was with the baby. I'm talking about baby Ari, the baby that lived and she runs and tells the dad, I'm with the baby. And I found this injury to his genitals. Now, hold on. Genital injury, scratches, bruising, swelling on face, belly button scratches and genitals. OK, so she runs and tells the dad and there's blood in the baby's diapy. That's what police are saying. And she tells the dad this. And then the dad apparently, you know, as a parent, calls the doctor's office, calls the pediatrician and, you know, he's on the hotline. You know how it is. You can't get through. You're waiting on

the hotline. What do I do? What do I do? And he, uh, the guidance is to take the baby to the hospital. You know, that's kind of what they always say. Thank goodness. Um, I want to focus on one other one while I'm going down a rabbit hole here Dr. John De La Torre joining me licensed psychologist and mediator specializing in forensic psychology and you can find him at resolutionfcs.com Dr. De La Torre as I understand the facts she volunteered to go change the diapy Gabrielle is that true she said she changed the diapy? Yes. Okay.

So, Dr. Delatore, have you ever seen those people that create a problem and then they fix it and then they're the hero? Okay. Oh, sure. They place themselves. Yeah. They place themselves at the location of the incident, be it a crime or not a crime. She volunteers to go change the diapy. And then she says, Oh, his penis is swollen. There's blood in his diapy. He's got scratches on his face. None of that was apparent when she arrived.

You think mommy's going to go take a nap with the baby's penis swollen and blood in the diapy and scratches all over him? No, no. The dad? No. They go in, they see the babies and it's then mom says, okay, I'm going to take a nap. The baby was fine. No scratches on the face. This happened after she volunteers to change the diaper.

I know that's a small fact, a subtle but very critical fact in this scenario and timeline. Yeah, Nancy, what you're describing is what's called factitious disorder by proxy. It used to be called Munchausen syndrome by proxy. And I think that's the key element here, because, sure, you could probably hide the injuries that are happening underneath the scratches, how come no one indicated that these scratches were just there or could give a plausible reason as to why the baby would have scratches? So anything else could be hidden and you're absolutely right. Could they have been caused by her? Sure, they could have. Could any number of other reasons or other things have been happening? Those could have happened as well. But why wasn't anyone actually told? Why would any of this be a shock? And I think that's the element that we need to really

investigate for it. Now, interesting, Dr. John Delatore, I believe you said I was harping on a fact. I don't know that being compared to a harpy is exactly what I was going for. I'm pointing out the fact, which I find extremely probative, agree or disagree, Kelly Hyman, that she, Nicole Verzi, places herself alone, alone with baby Ari at the time his injuries to his genitals, his face and his stomach are first known. She is alone with the baby. That's critical, Kelly. That will be something ultimately up for the experts. It'll be very interesting if they have some kind of therapist, psychologist, psychiatrist take the witness stand for the prosecution to show motive, to show what the reasoning was behind it. Nancy, if the fact was the fact that she goes in and does this and

then in fact becomes her own hero, so to speak. That is definitely something potentially I could see the experts, psychologists, psychiatrists potentially testifying to. And of course, the defendants will have the opportunity to cross-examine and potentially present their own experts as well. It appears that potentially one of their defenses will be that it was an accident based on what the attorney said to news reporters. Of course, she remains innocent in our jurisprudence until she is proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. As parents of newborn Savannah and Ethan wait in the ER with the baby Ari,

they receive an even more worrying call. Baby Leon has fallen and is unresponsive. What? Their heads must have been blowing off. They're in the ER with baby Ari with genital swelling and cuts and bruises, and they get an email or text, I guess, from the PhD student, the glam PhD student, that the other baby is now unresponsive due to a head injury. Okay. Who is this woman that the press insists on calling, calling a glamorous PhD student slash spin cyclist instructor? Well, let's hear it from the horse's mouth. Listen. Hi there. My name is Nicole Verzi and I'm the first author on the article titled Depression Symptom Patterns as Predictors of Metabolic Syndrome and Cardiac Events in Symptomatic Women with Suspected Myocardial Ischemia.

What? Okay. She's getting her psychology PhD. Oh, by the way, that video is from the Heart and Mind Journal. I bet they're proud today. But did you hear her state? I am the first author of the article and I actually located the article and read it. My eyes were bleeding because it's way beyond anything we learned in law school or since. So I'm going to have to go back to Dr. Kendall Crowns joining us. We're now in chief medical examiner, chief medical examiner, Tarrant County. The way I understood her article article is that she is describing the effects of depression or let me just say disturbing events in one's life emotional events such as grief or turbulence the effect that those factors have as it relates to comorbidity in a heart event of a woman.

Translation, I think what she's saying is if you're depressed or you have a traumatic life event, like you lose your job or you have to move or you get a divorce or there's a death in your family. How does that affect as a comorbidity factor in heart attacks or heart events? Is that what she's saying? It does sound like that is what her article is saying, that if you've had a traumatic life event, that you are at a higher risk of having a heart attack or a myocardial infarction. The exact specific of the article, I'd have to look at it. But I mean, stressors in life, of course, can affect you in numerous ways. I don't usually heart attacks. It's coronary artery disease or coronary artery blockage, not necessarily your life events,

but more your poor dietary habits. I think she's following up on the theory, quote, it broke my heart. So let's listen to more Nicole Verzi in her video presentation. And you notice she says, I am the first author. When I read it, I realized there were other co-authors. I'd love to hear their input on writing this article with her. Note to self, find them. Listen to Nicole Verzi. The Wise and Wise CBD Projects, which was published as part of the Heart and Mind Special Issue on Stressors and Cardiovascular Disease in 2022.

That video is from the Heart and Mind Journal. But as you see her there, she looks very different than she does in that mugshot. I want to get back to the facts at issue here. Listen. While spending time watching the twin boys, Ari and Leon, Nicole Verzi tells the parents she notices odd injuries on Ari's genitals. Listen. Vanna Robertson get a call from Nicole Verzi telling them while she was in the kitchen getting a bottle for Leon, the baby fell from his bouncer seat and hit his head. Ethan tells her to call 911. Okay, back to our special guest joining us, Gabriella DeLuca joining us from WPXI. Gabriella, I just want to confirm something I heard you say earlier and let you, you know, elaborate on it, if possible.

I'm understanding a change in the story because right there we have her stating he fell from the bouncy while she was getting a bottle. Okay. Later, I hear she said he fell from a bassinet, which is a completely different type of baby furniture. So what police are telling us is that when she first made that 911 call, she said, told operators that this baby, Leon, fell from a bassinet. Then it appears when investigators get there and when she talks to them,

she's saying that the baby was actually in a bouncy seat that was unfastened. And that bouncy seat was about 18 inches off of the ground. And if you're familiar with most bassinets, they're much higher than that. So, yes, there's a definite change in the story from what police are telling us. Let me go to Kelly Hyman joining us, veteran trial lawyer, host of What's But a Crime in Hollywood. I want to talk to you about a Moses basket. That is reportedly the type of bassinet this baby had along with twin brother. The same kind I had for the twins. Why did I pick the Moses basket? Moses baskets replicate the basket that Moses, baby Moses, you remember he was put in the water and a little basket made of reeds and floated down the water until the king's daughter found him and took him in to raise him.

Moses, Moses basket. They don't have bars on the side for the baby to stick its head through they are elevated and they are solid all the way around like a basket and usually rise up on the side like a basket think of noah's ark type basket so if the baby were to jump eject himself at six weeks, can't crawl, can barely even sit up. I'll have to go back on Dr. Crowns about that. But this baby that can't even sit up yet, probably jumps out of a bassinet versus a baby bouncer, which is just 18 inches off the ground. that's even more implausible. That tells a compelling story. And I can definitely see the state who brings this case, bringing that up, that there is

no other reasonable explanation that what happened to the baby, because a person is innocent, but they have to, the state has to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt. And that is definitely key beyond a reasonable doubt. I can definitely see that coming into place. The fact that there is no plausible explanation for this, except for the fact that the baby was harmed. And that's definitely something the state will bring up and can tell us a very compelling story about these beautiful, beautiful children. Of course, she remains innocent in our jurisprudence until she is proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Doctors at the ER are alarmed by the cat's twin's strange injuries and suspect something more sinister is afoot.

Who hurt the babies? In this case, back to you, I'm very curious about the relationship between Verzi and the parents, Gabriella DeLuca. They have been friends since at least 2021. Do we know the capacity? We know that they were good friends. They were family friends and their families were friends. And we know that she was in on a special weekend for them. It was Father's Day.

It was their anniversary. They have these six week old twins. You know, most moms when they are that postpartum, they only want people who are really close to them coming to visit. You know, it's an emotional time. Twins, there's a lot. So based on what we are seeing, I it seems like they were very good friends. They were close. And we have baby Leon back home and suddenly the parents get this call or an email. Baby Leon has a head injury. He's unresponsive. Listen to what the glam PhD student says to investigators.

Listen. Investigators speak to Nicole Verzi and decide her story of what happened to Leon Katz doesn't match up with the severity of his injuries, as he would have only fallen 18 inches from the bouncer to the floor. Prosecutors consider all the information before them and charge Nicole Verzi with homicide, aggravated assault, and endangering the welfare of children. Prosecutors also file a notice of their intent to seek the death penalty against Nicole Verzi. Ouch. And now the babysitter, the friend, Nicole Verzi, seems shocked that prosecutors could seek the death penalty. Why is it so often I see when the victim of an attack is a baby that cannot speak for itself? Those cases are handled with sweetheart deals on voluntary manslaughter.

No murder charges. Not this time, Nicole Verzi. Not this time. Nicole Verzi, who's considered innocent under our system, seemingly shocked that she could face life behind bars without parole or the death penalty. I mean, let's just think it through. Dr. John Delatore, a renowned psychologist joining us. Think it through. Let your mind follow these claims to their logical conclusion. I know you don't like it, but do it. She, the adult, according to the state, attacked this baby in its bassinet or bouncy chair. A six week old tot, an infant, leaving it with so many fractures to the head, it dies. And remember, if there are multiple fractures, how did the baby get multiple fractures?

Not just one fracture you might get from falling. Did he, what, bounce off the hardwood floor and fracture the other part of his head? If it's proven there are multiple fractures, but think about the psychopathy, Dr. Del Tori, of attacking a baby, an infant in its bassy and doing this to the infant. And now she's, oh my stars, I'm going to get punished. What? You also have to keep in mind her background. She is a daughter of a very well-known and respected cardiologist that practices in Manhattan and Mount Sinai. Impeccable credentials. Think about how she was brought up most likely in the lap of luxury. And now I'm going to get punished. Hit me. No, I mean, you're not wrong. I mean, when we think about this, we have to remember that conducting these kinds of evaluations.

Right. And I think I honestly think an evaluation needs to happen here because it is possible that factitious disorder by proxy is at play. It is certainly possible. But you talk about her, you know, her father being, you know, affluent or her father having all of these accolades. Well, she does, too. I mean, she's, you know, a Ph.D. candidate. She has 10 articles already published. She's been working on it for five years. I mean, that's how long it takes.

That's how long it takes, though, Nancy. And it's troubling then. And I think, right, as a prosecutor, you know, as a prosecutor, you don't need to prove a motive. But the jury is going to want to know a motive. The jury isn't just going to look at this. And yes, her appearance, her education, everything, all of that is going to come into play. They need to know why this happened now. Why did it happen?

Why did it happen? Dr. John Delatore, did you just tell me I had to take into account that she's glamorous, grew up with a silver spoon in her mouth, has accomplished almost after five years getting her Ph.D.? Do I have to remind you that Brian Koberger, remember him? He's charged with four murders. He's a PhD student too. Ted Bundy, he was in law school. He's no idiot. Alex Murdoch, he was a practicing and renowned lawyer for Pete's sake. Are you telling me I have to consider their education and their glam factor, how photogenic they are, before I look at the facts of what happened to baby Ari and what happened to baby Leon? It's more to it than just you need to look at their education.

All of those individuals had a history of problems. She has no history of problems at all in any way, shape or form. So we do have to think about what exactly it is. They do not have a history of problems at all in any way, shape, or form. So we do have to think about what exactly it is. They do not have a history of problems. Nobody knew Ted Bundy was a serial killer until he was finally busted. You know what I have to look at? I have to look at the facts and the facts are plain and simple, regardless of what you say, Dr. Delatore. Dr. Melissa Merrick, joining us, present CEO of Prevent Child Abuse America. What is your message today in a nutshell? My message is that unfortunately, child abuse happens everywhere, right? We need to get in

front of it. We need to allow families to have high quality, affordable child care, to learn about adequate caregiving strategies, right? To have some of the load and the stressors that are on them to be lifted. The surgeon general just said that parental stress is a public health crisis, right? We know having two babies crying and little and we're all stressed out, we're not getting enough sleep. That's not just parents, but anyone that watches our child needs to know how to soothe them and how to be appropriate. But child abuse happens everywhere, no matter education, no matter income. But it is always preventable. And all of us have a role to play in preventing these crazy, crazy, sad

fatalities and harms to kids. Dr. Kendall Crowns, what would the child have endured after a blow to the head and brain swelling? So if he was still conscious, it would cause the brain would, from the blood, would start swelling and would cause severe headache, start the child to begin to throw up and then eventually go into a coma and die. But from the injuries described with the large fracture and the brain bleed, to me, it sounds like the child was swung into a hard surface, skulls fractured, he was probably immediately unconscious. And you're right, Gabriela and Dr. Crowns. It's only one skull fracture to the left side of the head, but with multiple brain bleeds. How does that happen, Dr. Crowns, from one fracture on

the left side of the head, which would indicate the person was right-handed that threw him if it was in fact a throw. How could one fracture to the left side of the skull result in multiple brain bleeds? So, I mean, the skull fracture is one impact. You have to remember the brain itself has a little bit of space inside the skull. So if the child is being shook and then slammed against the surface, the shaking itself can cause a tearing of the vessels of the brain, and then that can cause hemorrhage. So when I hear something like that, it makes me feel like there was a shaking incident

followed by a slam to the ground. We wait as justice unfolds in our prayers for not only Leon's, baby Leon's parents, but for baby Ari, who will grow up knowing that he once had a twin brother. Thank you to our guests for being with us to enlighten and report on this very upsetting case. Nancy Grace signing off.

Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.