Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - GLAM 'RUSSIAN' SWINGER Takes Plea Deal in HIT ON HUBBY

Episode Date: January 27, 2024

Tatyana Remley accepts a plea deal after being charged with soliciting someone to kill her husband. Remley approached a friend with an offer of $2 million dollars to end her estranged husband's life. The friend went to police, who set up a sting.   The couple was in the midst of a divorce. In her filings, Remley says her husband held a gun to her head, threatening to kill her, and chased her around the house with a knife, trying to kill her. In 2012, the Remley couple gained attention for orchestrating a mobile equestrian event named “Valitar in Del Mar.” The show was quickly canceled, however, plunging the couple into lawsuit battles with vendors who claimed they didn’t get paid. Joining Nancy Grace Today: Kathleen Murphy - Family Attorney  Dr. Angela Arnold – Psychiatrist, Atlanta GA. (voted 'My Buckhead’s Best Psychiatric Practice' of 2023) Expert in the Treatment of Pregnant/Postpartum Women, and Former Assistant Professor of Psychiatry, Obstetrics and Gynecology: Emory University; Former Medical Director of The Psychiatric Ob-Gyn Clinic at Grady Memorial Hospital Robin Dreeke – Behavior Expert & Retired FBI Special Agent / Chief of the FBI Counterintelligence Behavioral Analysis Program; Author: “Sizing People Up: A Veteran FBI Agents Manual for Behavior Prediction;” Twitter: @rdreeke Brad Watts – Licensed Professional Counselor and Certified Sex Offender Treatment Provider (who specializes in working with families where sibling sexual abuse has occurred); Author: “Sibling Sexual Abuse: America’s Silent Epidemic;” bradwattslpc.com, Instagram: @bradwattslpc Bridget Brandon - Horse Specialist and President of The Equine Expert; facebook.com/theequineexpert   Jen Smith - Chief Reporter for DailyMail.com; Twitter: @jen_e_smith  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Sadly, we've all heard the phrase, I'm too pretty for jail, Judge. And even more sadly, it has often worked. Now, there's a new saying. I'm too pretty for a long sentence, Judge. And it worked. Yes, you heard me.

The glamorous, quote, murder-for-hire equestrian, Tatiana Remley, just sentenced to under four years in a shocking plea deal after she absolutely hires a hitman to kill her husband for two million dollars. That's right. She orders a hit. She pays good money for a contract to kill her husband, Mark Remley, just days after she files for divorce. She admits it, and she's only sentenced to three years, eight months in a state jail. That's not even prison, after cutting a deal with prosecutors. And of course, Starbucks is playing a role in this, as so often occurs.

I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thanks for being with us here at Crime Stories and on Sirius XM 111. Let's say Starbucks, Starbucks, Starbucks. Why do people meet undercover cops at Starbucks? Seriously, don't they know that there are cameras, surveillance cameras, not only in the drive-thru

but inside the starbucks where all the millenniums millennials are laying around reading and chatting on their phones um that said oh gosh she was dahlia dipolito her remember her when when when my husband's dad she tried to poison her husband allegedly with a poisonous starbucks drink starbucks did not poison it she poisoned it allegedly and then went on to hire a hitman aka undercover.k.a. undercover agent, to kill her husband. Oh, I loved it so much. They set up a sting, okay, and told her that her husband was dead. I always say Meryl Streep, move over. This woman, Dahlia DiPolito, man, oh, the act she put on, the screaming, the crying,

the pain, the agony, the bending over double physically in pain over her dead husband that she ordered to be murdered. That all started at a Starbucks. And now we have another one because Tatiana Rimley, this catchphrase is just killing me, the glamorous murder-for-hire equestrian. She is a vicious and cold-blooded would-be killer. But okay, glamorous murder-for-hire equestrian. She was seized by undercover cops posing as the assassins when she met them at a California Starbucks. I'm just stunned that anybody would take a three-year deal on a hit trying to put a two million dollar contract on her husband's life

now she was charged in august after she was arrested in a sting by undercover agents of San Diego, who she was convinced were contract killers. She brought three guns and a cash deposit for the murder of her husband, who she said she had left, quote, acting like a scared puppy. I guess he did because he was married to her. She's basically got blood dripping from her mouth like a vampire. Okay, I'm looking at a picture of her. Oh, my goodness.

Now, there are push-up bras and then there are push-up bras. This, well, I don't think I've ever seen anything like it. The heiress, Tatiana Remley, will now be jailed for a little over three years in California after she admits putting a $2 million contract on her husband's life. Okay, how did this whole thing start? Tatiana Remley had lived a life of luxury in Del Mar, filled with multi-million dollar homes, prize horses, and sports cars.

I've always wanted to start a show. 42-year-old Tatiana Remley captured the spotlight back in 2012 for her involvement in a failed multi-million dollar horse show at the Del Mar Fairgrounds. And tonight, she's behind bars, now facing far more serious allegations

of trying to have her husband, 57-year-old Mark Remley, killed for $2 million. They sure are throwing around a lot of money. And did you hear her voice? I always wanted to put on a show. It sounds like John David and Lucy, when they would put on a magic show at the Christmas gathering or the Thanksgiving gathering or the summer gathering with all the lynches and the graces all together.

They want to, quote, put on a show. And then we find out it's a very, very expensive horse show. Who has that kind of money to throw around? Well, I think I might know the answer to that. Take a listen to more from our friends at CBS 8. According to the Sheriff's Department, Remley tried to hire a hitman sometime between July 1st and August 2nd, right around the time she had filed for divorce. On July 3rd, investigators say they received a tip that Remley was trying to have her husband killed

one day after a suspicious fire at their home on Rancho Reposo. The Sheriff's Department then launched a sting operation. An undercover detective met with Tatiana at a Starbucks in Solana Beach, where she allegedly provided detailed information on how she wanted her husband killed and his body disposed of. She also allegedly brought with her three additional firearms, as well as cash to place a down payment for the murder leading to her arrest. I've got an all-star panel,

but before I go to Chief Investigative Reporter for DailyMail.com, Jen Smith, Kathleen Murphy is with me, high-profile divorce lawyer. You can find her at ncdomesticlaw.com. Kathleen Murphy, I know you've handled so many divorces, you can hardly keep them all straight. But what is wrong with rich people? I mean, there are people in this world eking out a living. They don't have enough to eat. They have what we call food insecurity. They don't know where their next meal is coming from. They've got children

that don't have enough to eat. They barely have a roof over their head. They go paycheck to paycheck. Hey, I've been there, that whole paycheck to paycheck thing. I've worked three jobs. I get it. So it seems to me the more money people get, the more miserable they are. Nancy, I have a policy in my office that if crazy walks through the door, they're going to walk right back out. I just don't have the time to deal with that when we have children who really have needs. And this couple didn't even have any children between them and they're acting like pure fools. In North Carolina, you don't even get to bring any of this shazazzle into an equitable distribution. Okay, is that a technical legal term they did not teach me either at Mercer Law School,

the Walter F. George School of Law, or NYU shazazzle? Is that one of your, what? That is a legal term. North Carolina? That is a legal term. And what, may I ask, does shazazzle mean? Bullshit. Oh, okay. Got it. That's what that is. Okay, yeah, that is a technical legal term. Thank you.

I've got a new word. Guys, we are talking about a so-called glamorous Russian equestrian boy, do I've got a surprise for you, who is accused of taking out a $2 million hit on her husband. And with me right now, Dr. Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrist, joining us out of the Atlanta jurisdiction at AngelaArnoldMD.com. What is wrong with the rich people? I didn't really get a good answer from Kathleen Murphy. I learned a new legal term, shazazzle.

But what is wrong with them? A $2 million hit? I mean, they've got money coming out of their rear ends. So Nancy, I believe that when people become so wealthy that they lose their purpose in life, they have no purpose in life. They can have whatever they want. They don't have to wait for anything.

And it changes your mindset when you don't have a purpose, you don't have to work, you don't have to have delayed gratification, and it makes people unhappy. You know what my grandmother said, Dr. Angie toil, T-O-I-L. I think there's a reason for that because apparently humans get in too much trouble when they don't have a job. So how did the whole thing go down? Jen Smith joining me, chief investigative reporter, DailyMail.com. First of all, is the husband still alive? As far as we know, he is absolutely alive, Nancy, but he can't be found. We don't know where he is.

Wait, Jen Smith, haven't you been in my world long enough to know when somebody goes missing, there's a really good chance they're dead? This woman's already allegedly taken out a $2 million hit on the guy, and now we can't find him. Why do you think he's alive, Jen Smith? And oh, I'd like to point out, Jackie is furiously waving a note at me. Put it back up, please, unless you've erased it. That he and she's angry. She's angry this morning because this guy that we can't find, Mark Remley, inherited all of his money. He didn't earn it. And I have to agree with you, Jackie.

There's a big difference when you are born into money and when you have to work for it. Well, you're right. I mean, normally when we have attempted murder for hire plot, we have a missing intended victim. You would think that they're in real trouble. The reason I say he is missing is because before any of us learned about this plot nancy mark ramley roared up in his ferrari to his neighbor's house said i'm having a seizure i need to go to the hospital you need to help me wait he could drive his ferrari to his neighbor's house but he couldn't

call 9-1-1 i'm having a seizure. Is that what he said? Many, many questions around the behavior of this couple, obviously. He was taken to the hospital for medical care. We know that he made it there and we know that he seemingly made it out. Now, after that, it looks like he's hightailed it. And I can't say that many people would blame him given what his wife, Tatiana, had in store for him. Okay. So we know he was at the hospital. We know he was discharged from the hospital from his seizure. I still don't understand why he drove to his neighbors.

Let me guess. Is it a red Ferrari? I'm just wild guess. It's actually a black Ferrari. Oh, okay. That was my second choice. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. In the latest, the so-called glamorous murder-for-hire equestrian Tatiana Remley sentenced to a little over three years behind bars and a stunning plea deal in California after she admits she hires a hitman to kill her husband for $2 million, showing up with three guns and money to the assassins who were really undercover agents at a Starbucks. Now, the couple married back in 2011

and had already filed divorce papers against each other before they gained fame the next year with an equestrian circus show at the Delmar Fairgrounds, and it was based on the really famous Cirque du Soleil. The Vallatar show was a huge flop, and it plunged into bankruptcy after just five of the planned 45 performances. Now, I feel like I'm eating a dirt sandwich when I keep saying this. The glamorous, okay, I got to give it to her. She is glamorous. Well, she is now. was Russian with a background in dressage. Dressage, well, it's for rich people. Let's just start right there.

It's a certain type of an equestrian horse event. It requires a lot of training and a lot of skill and a lot of precision. Again, she claimed to be Russian with a background in dressage, and she fronted publicity and insisted that her face appear on every billboard, every poster, every ad, and that she appear in the show despite mediocre, at best, writing skills. Well, she didn't do any of the stunts, according to sources, but in the end, when the whole cast would line up and everybody's applauding, this blonde lady comes down the center, all the whole cast would line up and everybody's applauding, this blonde lady comes down the center. All the other cast members part for her, and there is silence.

And everybody says, who's that? Oh, it's the lady in the poster. Well, that was Tatiana Rimley, the glamorous murder-for-hire equestrian. I'm still choking on that. She is a would-be killer. She's bloodthirsty. Have you ever picked up a frog and looked it right in the face?

It has no emotion at all. It just looks at you with those cold-blooded little eyes. That's her. She's the frog in this scenario. Anyway, back to how this whole thing started jen smith joining me chief investigative reporter dailymail.com how does she end up getting found out by police well not very clever move by tatiana remley the person that she confessed her plan to was a mutual friend

of the couple who upon hearing her intention to have her husband murdered he called the police then from there the police initiated a sting operation and the intended hit man Nancy the person she thought she was going to pay two million dollars to kill her husband he was an undercover cop that's how this all unraveled. Robin Jareek joining me behavior expert former FBI special agent, chief of the FBI counterintelligence behavioral analysis program and author of Sizing People Up. This is an incredible book, by the way, Sizing People Up, a veteran FBI agent's manual for behavior prediction. Hey, all you single ladies, read this book before you go on your next date.

You can find them at PeopleFormula.com. Sizing People Up, a Veteran FBI Agent's Manual for Behavior Prediction. I usually put it in a nutshell, Rob and Drake. If you don't know what somebody's going to do, look at what they've already done. That's just my general formula. Rob and Drake, what is wrong with these two people? Well, you hit it right there. And we'll riff on what your other guest just said.

And this is she's got a life arc of shazazzle. Mispronunciation, please. I believe she says shazazzle. Yeah. Okay. Shazazzle. Shazazzle. But it's these people, you know, we're genetically and biologically coded to survive and thrive in deprivation, believe it or not, as biological organisms on this planet.

So when you have when you have abundance like they have, you get ultimately caught up in the cult of more and you're constantly wanting and craving more. And my question throughout this entire thing, she's got a life arc of really abnormal, unhealthy behavior of all these things and violence and sex and drugs and rock and roll and all that. But I'm really curious as to what she was going to gain by killing her husband, because she's using financial gains from child support and all these other things. But always there's a motive behind killing a lot of times life insurance policies and things like that. But what I'm really curious about is every other husband has a prenup that's been really rock solid against her. And so she's really struggling there.

So I really want to know why she wanted to have him killed. What was she going to get? All her behavior throughout her entire life has been self-serving for herself. And I'm not getting it yet. I think I started that by asking what is wrong with these people. And frankly, that's not my concern. I'm not getting it yet. I think I started that by asking what is wrong with these people. And frankly, that's not my concern. I'm not a shrink. I don't I don't need to know what's wrong with them. I don't need to know why. The reality is that when you are in court and you're trying to prove a case, why motive doesn't matter. The state never has to

prove motive. Realistically, practically speaking, a jury would like to find out why, because you see these two come into court and you think, why would she risk it all by hiring a hitman? So you may want to know motive so you can tell that to a jury so that final piece of the puzzle isn't missing. But I want to find out more about these people and about the alleged hit. Now, a lot started falling apart after a failed horse show. A failed horse show. And guess who I've got with me? An equestrian specialist. But what does that have to do with these two who were in a whole heap of trouble? It's like two wet cats in a barrel. Take a listen to our cut 17, ABC 10. More than a month after the Valatar show was abruptly canceled,

the big red tent is still here at the Del Mar Fairgrounds parking lot. And tonight, the show's producers are facing a second lawsuit. Elite Show Services, a company you might know from Chargers games where they provide security, says Valatar producer Mark Remley and his wife Tatiana owe them more than $65,000. Elite's beef with the Remleys actually goes back about four years. The company says the Remleys not only stiffed them on Valatar, Elite says the couple has done the same thing to them before. Jan Smith, what is Valatar? So Valatar would have been and was briefly the Remley sort of per man version of the show that you mentioned that you had seen yourself, Nancy. They decided that they wanted to create a sort of version, similar version, but they wanted it to be raunchier.

So their idea was that they would gather horses, they would gather kind of sexy acrobats, and they would put on this horse show that would rival what you saw, which was actually created by one of the founders of Cirque du Soleil. So pretty lofty ambitions there. That was Valatar. It didn't last very long, I think maybe four or five shows. And really the problem was that while Tatiana might have been a horse enthusiast, she certainly bought some or her husband bought them for her. She knew nothing

about what it required to run not just a show, but a show involving animals. There were accidents on set. Some of the horses ended up with broken legs getting tangled in carriages that she was trying to use in props. You had experts warning her, you don't know anything about this. And her husband was the same. So the show didn't last very long, but it might not come as a surprise to you to learn she was the face of it. She was the face that you saw on all the posters advertising this horse show. And she was the one who came out at the end of the show, took a bow for the audience

even though she really had no involvement in any of the stunts. In the last days the Murder for Hire, okay I'll say it again, glamorous Murder for Hire equestrian Tatiana Remley sentenced to just a little over three years for a cold blooded murder for hire plot.

I'm stunned. I'm stunned. What were those prosecutors thinking? Oh, I can hear Dr. Angela Arnold chomping at the bit to scream out narcissism. But hold on. I want you all to know more facts about the I mean, what a boondoggle. Just, just think about how much college tuition was, everything I think about, I think about, okay, would this be the twins college tuition? Would this be the health insurance? Do I really want it that much that I have to pay this amount for it? When I hear $70,000 and this amount and that amount, that's how I look at it. I want you to hear more about this so-called horse show. I think it's a lot more than that. Take a listen to our friends at ABC 10.

Ballotar went dark in late November after just a few performances. They did strand the performers and they stranded the horses as well. A benefit show held in December raised enough money to send all the performers and horses home. During the show, she showed up one day with a horse and was like, oh, look, I just got this horse. I only spent $70,000 on him. The asking price for the horse at the time had been $30,000. So she managed to spend $40,000 more than the asking price just because she decided she wanted that horse and someone saw a sucker written on her face i guess seventy thousand dollars for a thirty thousand dollar horse you are hearing eric martanovich with our friends at

news nation but now take a listen to eric martanovich speaking to that billboard jen smith was telling you about and she wanted to she had a billboard for Valatar, the show, made with her standing there looking as sexy as she could, holding a pole, kind of looked like an ad for a strip club. And she put it on I-5 where he had to drive every day so that he would have to see it. So she definitely had a little vendetta going. She obviously didn't like him and she wanted to show him how wonderful she was doing without him. Okay, with't like him and she wanted to show him how wonderful she was doing without him. Okay, with that in mind, I want to introduce to you to a very special guest, Bridget Brandon, joining us out of Texas, horse specialist. She is the president of the Equine

Expert. You can find her at theequineexpert.com. Bridget Brandon, thank you for being with us. When I heard that some of the horses fell with tangled up in carriages and so forth, I mean, isn't a broken leg essentially the kiss of death for a horse, a show horse? Well, it can be. I'm not a vet, and there's been a lot of new technology as far as medicine goes. But certainly with the broken leg, it can end a horse's athletic performance for sure. Most of these horses were either stallions or geldings. Um, but, uh, certainly with the broken leg, it, it could, um, ruin that horse's particular career and, and devalue the horse as well. I was listening to what various guests and experts have said that while she knew how

to ride a horse, putting on a horse show, uh, to the extent of something comparable to Cavalia, that's a big deal. That's a very big deal. You've got to consider the bedding, the footing, the feed, the water, where you're going to practice, the conditions for the horses, heat and air. There's a lot of planning circumstances. You've got to have vets available on hand, you know, in case an accident happens, like, you know, broken leg or an injury of some sort, a horse colic. There's just numerous things that you've got to be prepared for. And it's one of those industries you just don't, if you don't, if you're not experienced in it, you just don't know what you don't know, many things could happen.

Another thing, Bridget Brandon with us, horse specialist, the president of the Equine Expert. Bridget, I am always fascinated by one, well, many events in the Olympics. But I remember seeing, I think it was one of the Royals competing in a horse-drawn carriage race. I mean, we're used to, for instance, the Kentucky Derby or various races we see on American TV. We don't see a lot of carriage races. It's a very, very specialized sport. It is a specialized sport and it involves a lot of twists and turns and going around obstacles. And you have to have very highly trained horses to do that type of event. And you yourself need to be trained as well. Weren't there carriage horses in this show to you, Jen Smith? There were. I mean,

whether or not they actually ended up using them in the show, I'm not sure, but we know that there was some sort of accident in the rehearsal involving at least one horse, and that horse ended up breaking its legs because it got caught in the contraptment that they were trying to use. So what happened? Did they just pull out, leave everybody high and dry without paying them? Yeah, that's exactly what's alleged. And then what happened afterwards were, you know, a mountain of losses. You have these people who give up their time to do this. They stay no to other jobs.

And then they end up kind of high and dry. We know that Mark and Tatiana, they had a tumultuous marriage. They ended up staying together for, you know, legally married around 10 years. But there were on again, off again, there were separations, there were, you know, real gaps where they were not a united front.

And at least during one of those, Mark said that he wanted to carry on with the show and was going to deal with the experts himself, putting Tatiana out of it. They then ended up back together and Tatiana's back in the frame. It was just a whole mess. These were two people who did not know what they were doing and clearly weren't prepared to listen to the experts who were telling them. All that money, though, Jen Smith. Well, apparently it wasn't enough to put on what they wanted to do. The experts that we've all heard from and said, yeah, they had

some money, but it wasn't enough to achieve or pull off the level of theatrics and performance that they were trying to achieve. He had the money, millions and millions of dollars. I don't know how much more he wanted to sink into a horse show. But guys, they had more problems than just money problems and horse problems. Take a listen to our cut 24. So in 17, I got a phone call from Mark. This was after our business deals had failed miserably and I didn't want anything to do with him. And he was trying to get me to come down to San Diego and hang out. And I couldn't figure out what he wanted.

A friend of ours was at my place and we were talking about it. And I just brought it up as a weird thing that why was Mark bothering me? And he immediately knew the answer. And he said, oh, Tatiana wants to sleep with you while he watches. So apparently they were trying to get me to come down there and have sex with Tatiana while Mark watched. Friends told the New York Post that Mark and Tatiana Remley were featured in the 2017 Showtime docuseries Naked Sanctum, where the pair was seen hanging out with fellow swingers.

When appearing on the Showtime series Naked Sanctum, where members of an elite sex club share partners, Mark Remley went under the pseudonym Vladimir and identified himself as an entrepreneur. Remley, using the name Vladimir, shocked many people close to the couple. Tatiana has a brother named Vladimir, the same brother she accused of sexually assaulting her when she was a child. You know, Kathleen Murphy, trial lawyer, joining me out of North Carolina. When you start a prosecution, you have to go to some very dark places. I've been in every strip club, male and female in town, drug houses, flop houses, houses where everybody is high on something and people are over in the corner chasing the dragon.

I mean, you name it, been there. Some of it I wish I couldn't remember. Some of it I've tried to forget. A lot of it I've tried to forget. But I'm trying to get my head wrapped around what I just heard from NewsNation and CrimeOnline.com. Did I hear, Jen Smith, that they wanted their friend, Eric Martanovich, to come down and have sex with the wife while the husband watched. Did I hear that? That's what you heard. You don't seem like you're worried about it at all, girl.

Did I also hear they were on Naked S-N-C-T-M? I guess that's for Sanctum on Showtime. Naked Sanctum. That's right they appeared very willingly on this pretty seedy show that followed the lives of wealthy swingers that attended these kind of what are meant to be exclusive sex parties Tatiana in this episode at least sporting dark hair she's sitting at a table she's being caressed by women and Mark is watching with a kind of excited look in his eye. They then give this on-camera interview where he refers to himself as Vladimir.

Now, as you heard there in the clip just played, that's a very sick reference, given we've heard a prior allegation against a brother of Tatiana's called Vladimir, who is said to have sexually abused her when she was a child. So she claims her brother sex abused her as a child. And then when they're play acting at, what was it called? Naked Sanctum. Naked Sanctum. He takes the moniker Vladimir,

knowing full well that she claims her brother sex abused her. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Well, I guess it's just as California style. A little over three years for planning to have your husband assassinated, showing up with guns and money. This woman, Tatiana Rimley, a mother of two, had finished school in fourth grade, somehow managed to snag multiple wealthy men

with a series of so-called failed engagements. Well, that's certainly putting perfume on the pig. I guess after she sucked a few of them dry, they would dump her and she'd move on to their best friend. She was fighting for custody of the son she shared with a multimillionaire biotech tycoon. That would be kenneth woolcott they separated in 2004 after just 11 months of marriage one man after the next at least they lived right at least she didn't oh my goodness i'm looking at more for promotional posters it's her between two horses looking, I guess some people would call it sexy.

Okay. Anyway, I wonder how sexy she's going to look after three years behind bars. But knowing this woman, she'll probably get out early. I'm not sure how prosecutors could turn a blind eye to how this whole thing unfolded. But I know this. I know that on July 5th, she was arrested with three firearms and money as her home burned to the ground. You think that was an accident? O-H-E-L-L-N-O. But of course, she has not been charged with arson, is presumed innocent. Six days later, she files for divorce

again, requesting $15,000 a month in spousal support. Hey, lady, just go get a job like the rest of us. Okay, let's get off her work ethic or like thereof and back on the facts of a would-be murder plot. Joining me right now is Brad Watts, licensed professional counselor and certified sex offender treatment provider who specializes in sibling sex abuse. Sibling sex abuse, this is book, Sibling Sex Abuse, America's Silent Epidemic.

Brad Watts, LPC, licensedprofessionalcounselor.com. Brad, this woman lies so much. I don't know whether to believe her that she had a brother named Vladimir that molested her. Yeah, Nancy. Yeah, it's tough to believe anything that she says. But my experience is that for a survivor of sibling sexual abuse, for her husband to go under the moniker as Vladimir, the name of the brother who sexually abused her, that would be highly triggering.

I mean, that would be like, I think about the show on the set, her being, finding that out, making me incredibly upset, not able to move forward with it. And so there's just a lot here. Obviously, I don't know. Perhaps she was sexually abused by Vladimir. But why would she go along with her husband using his name in some crazy sex game for a Showtime production? It makes no sense to me. Like I said, in my experience, most survivors would be severely triggered even by hearing the name, you know, particularly with the description that the mother gave about her.

The sibling sexual abuse being because, you know, Vladimir was jealous of her and, you know, keeping her isolated for 10 years and all these other things. But the brother kept her isolated. What about her parents? And we found out about this in one of their divorce dramas where it came out. It was in her mother's testimony back in 2006. So did the parents know? Were they unaware? I find it hard to believe her brother kept her isolated for 10 years without the parents say so. I just have a lot of issues with that. And then going along with her husband using her sex abuser's name in this charade. You know, Dr. Angie Arnold, we've discussed many times

when someone even says the name Keith, it's like somebody poured cold water on me out of the blue, the name of my fiance that was murdered. Or if someone just asked me about it, well-intentioned, it just, you know, I can be having a perfectly fine day and they bring that up and then I have to remember everything. So I'm very surprised that she would go along with him using the name Vladimir, if in fact she was molested by brother Vladimir for so long. I know that that seems surprising to a lot of people, but I know that you're not going to like what I have to say about this, but how do we know that this woman wasn't somehow being abused by this husband? I know that it all looks very flashy on the outside, but Nancy, there are not a lot of

people who want to have sex with other people while their husband watches, but the husband makes them do it. They're punished if they don't do it. They're punished in all kinds of ways. And so we don't know what kind of punishment she was suffering from him. So that it looks strange to us that she didn't have a reaction that one of us would have to this. But she's got a story and a background that's very different than any of us. Yeah. You know what? You're right about that. Take a listen to this. She had a character that she played all the time.

And it was this Russian Barbie doll princess equestrian. And I don't think any of it was true. It was all something she made up. I'm pretty sure her real name is Tanya. I don't think it's actually Tatiana. It's all this persona that she's made up and maybe it's a you know came from the childhood trauma and she needed a character that she could become that wasn't tortured. I don't know, but none of it's real. It's all her, this character that she plays. From our friends at News Nation, now listen to CrimeOnline.com. Former friends who have known Tatiana Remley say she said she was Russian and had a background in dressage, a highly specialized form of horse riding and equine display. However, a former business partner, Eric Martanovich, says Remley made up

the backstory of her life and that her real name is Tanya. The Daily Mail reports that Remley was born in Arizona, raised in Bend, Oregon. Her last name is Clark. She's not Russian. While working at a San Diego animal park and doing some modeling, Tatiana Remley began a relationship with Ken Wolcott. Wolcott is a former Southern California attorney and biotech tycoon who was part owner of the NBA Seattle Supersonics. Tatiana was 23 years old and six months pregnant with their son, Spencer, when she and 43-year-old Wolcott got married. The marriage only lasted 11 months, but the battle for money would rage on for years, even though a prenuptial agreement was signed by Tatiana Rimley. OK, so everything she's told us about her background, her name, where she's from. She was raised in Bend, Oregon, not Russia.

Her name is Tanya, not Tatiana. I assume she was an expert equestrian because she was seen riding by many. To Bridget Brandon, the president of the Equine Expert, isn't it dressage? Is that the name for that very complicated type of horse competition? Yes, dressage. It basically means training on horseback. It's a bit like ballet, but on horseback. It's a bit like ballet, but on horseback. And the horse actually learns like stepping backwards and to the side and very, very complicated moves. What more do we know

about Tatiana, a.k.a. Tanya from Bend, Oregon? Take a listen to our cut seven from Crime Online. While Tatiana Remley was fighting her ex-husband in court, her former friends tell the New York Post that Remley was the life of the party and was targeting rich men who could bankroll her lifestyle. Mark Remley did just that after they met at a local Starbucks and married in March of 2011. Pals of the couple told the Post the two shared a passion for money, riding horses, drugs, and participating in orgies. Okay, a passion for money, riding horses, drugs, and orgies. Is that right, Jen Smith?

That's right, a pretty unique set of interests there. But, you know, it definitely seems as though this was a mutually complicit arrangement. Tatiana, we know, or Tanya, she also enjoyed having sex with other people, whether or not her husband was there. Sometimes he was, sometimes he wasn't. We know that they both were very, they had an, you know, open and fluid marriage, to say the least. There were drugs. There were orgies. There were some occasions where he brought home apparently entire strip clubs full of people back to their house.

And they did have many children between them. They might not have had any kids together, but they were responsible for at least five or six children, I'd say, and they were living this really X-rated and at times, you know, darn right seedy lifestyle. You know what? I'm not the church lady. I don't care who they sleep with or if they have orgies or don't have orgies or have an open marriage or don't have an open marriage. But what it is telling me to Robin Dreek, formerly of the FBI, is that there is a lot of motive for murder. The first husband, wasn't the first husband, Jim Smith, super rich as well, like rolling in money? Yeah, he was super rich. He had the foresight

to protect himself with what is described as an ironclad prenup. It didn't stop her from being able to squeeze him from some money. And the way that she accomplished it was by demanding very large child support payments for the son that they shared. So Robin Drake, behavior expert, all of this talk about orgies and open marriages and a Showtime special and money, just money, hemorrhaging money. For me and my world, it's all evidence. Do I have motive for murder? And there is no way, as it stands right now, that I do not believe the undercover agent with whom she, according to him, contracted to kill her husband.

Yeah, this is a great example of people living beyond their intellect. And she is definitely do it. Combine that with total addiction and dopamine hits from every single aspect of life because they aren't struggling except to get more money and learn behavior of how to acquire resources in their lives. Yeah, you're right. It's following that life arc of complete chaos. And I'd be really interested to see what her plan was that she gave the cop of the detailed plans. I had a hard time imagining she can give a detailed plan for anything. So it's fascinating. You know, and this is not, according to reports, her first time at the rodeo. Take a listen to Hour Cut 5 from Crime Online. At one court hearing concerning financials, Wolcott's attorney said he was concerned about how Remley was spending the $2,000 a month he was giving her. Wolcott found out that during the marriage, Remley would

go to Costco, Nordstrom, and other stores, make purchases using credit cards, and then would turn right around and take the items back for a cash refund. After they were separated, Wolcott discovered Remley used this method to stockpile money. Wow, and that's all the way back in the Wolcott marriage. Well, I don't know if I would call this justice, but to all those ex-boyfriends, ex-fiances and ex-husbands, when this woman walks out of jail in about two and a half years, hide, hide, be afraid, be very afraid. Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.