Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Golf star murdered on golf course; Jilted girlfriend's 'sinister' stalking campaign against ex

Episode Date: September 21, 2018

Iowa State University golf star Celia Barquin Arozamena was practicing her game alone when she was murdered, allegedly by a homeless man who camped near the golf course. Nancy Grace looks at the murder case against Collin Daniel Richards. Nancy is joined by experts including defense lawyer Ray Giudice, forensics expert Karen Smith, medical examiner Dr. Jan Gorniak, and reporter Chuck Roberts. Nancy also looks at the trial of a London woman accused of harassing her ex-lover in a “sinister” stalking campaign of threatening emails and a fake pregnancy belly. Psycho analyst Dr. Bethany Marshall, prosecutor Kenya Johnson, and lawyer Ashley Willcott join.. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. If you have heard about the murder of Jessica Chambers, do not miss the new docuseries on Oxygen. It's the true story of a teen girl, a cheerleader in Mississippi, who is burned alive. And the story of the man accused of this heinous crime. Is it the right guy on trial? Who is he? And who is Jessica Chambers? And how does such a horrific crime occur? With more questions than answers, this is a case that has captured national headlines, taken over social media, and leaves a small town divided. This is a must-see TV event. It features exclusive interviews that take you inside the investigation as the search for answers and justice goes on.

Unspeakable Crime, The Killing of Jessica Chambers, Saturdays at 7, 6 Central on Oxygen, the new network for crime. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A beautiful young golfer, a pro, headed for great things. Celia Barkin found dead, murdered on an Iowa golf course. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. What can we learn from the 911 call?

Listen. They're concerned they saw a female that was golfing on the course, and she's nowhere to be found any longer. They found her clubs and other property, her cell phone and a ball cap at hole number nine. They don't know where she disappeared to. They're looking for a white female blonde, here in her twenties. Apparently she was on the ISU golf team. Someone thought that they were calling the coach. Find out where she went.

I'm out on 9th Fairway right now with golf staff. They said that her items were scattered here next to her bag. A lot of stuff laying on the ground, including her hat, range finder, and cell phone. Female was last seen wearing a red t-shirt and light-colored shorts. They weren't sure if they were white, but a lighter color. A beautiful young golfer, an Iowa college student found dead on an upscale golf course.

Who would attack a student, actually a golf champion, in broad daylight, fearing no repercussion? Joining me, Raymond Giudice, renowned Atlanta defense attorney. Karen Smith, forensics expert out of the Florida jurisdiction. Fulton County medical examiner. Dr. Jan Gorniak. And joining me right now crimeonline.com investigative reporter where you can find this and all other breaking crime and justice news

Chuck let's start at the beginning this young girl Celia Barkin is just 22 years old and she had just won the European ladies amateur championship she as said, a student at Iowa State, and I understand that golfers at the upscale Coldwater Golf Links in Ames first found an unattended golf bag out on the course early Monday morning. What happened next, Chuck? They immediately called 911. They found her bag. They had seen her earlier on the course.

She was playing alone early in the morning on Monday. They found her bag on the 9th fairway along with her cell phone and ball cap, and she was nowhere around. So they called police at about a quarter of 10. Well, hold on. Hold on just a moment. You know, Chuck, I appreciate your obvious knowledge of the game of golf. But, you know, from my understanding, anybody on the panel, a golfer,

because I understand it takes five to eight hours. Raymond Giudice, you're the swanky, high-flying defense lawyer. Don't you get out there with your dope clients and go play golf all day long? I mean, isn't that what the criminal defense business is all about? That's where we meet some of our best clients out there on the 18th hole. I bet you do. But it is a young lady that's an athlete, like as this young lady uh was at the time she could probably walk a 18 hole course in a couple of hours i would say um because she's you know she's a professional

athlete in great shape and probably in the middle of the day there's not a whole lot of golfers ahead of her not like a busy saturday morning at a fan. But it was the morning. Yes, yes. Let me ask you a couple of pointed questions for those of us non-golfers. The last time I had a golf ball, let's see, Raymond, it was during the Jody Arias trial, and I would take the twins in my spare time when I wasn't in the courthouse to a place called Cracker Jacks, and they had a golf, well, I don't know what you call it, you stand there in a line with a bunch of other people on either side of you,

and you hit golf balls into a net far away. I don't guess goofy golf, a.k.a. putt-putt, counts. So, Ray, how long does it take to play a game of golf? Again, it depends how busy the course is ahead of you, and are you playing in a foursome where everybody's got a hit? That can be, as you say, the three- to five-hour endeavor. A solo golfer, as this young lady was, who's an athlete, and is not out there drinking beers, you know, guy golf and telling jokes.

She was working on her game, which means hit the ball, get to the ball, hit the next ball, keep moving along, uh, walking, or maybe with a cart. So I would say that her exposure, in other words, how long was she out on the course from start to potential completion would be two hours, two and a half hours for the rest of us, Saturday morning golfers. It's a four to five hour. Uh, and we're trying not to go home to our wives. We want to stay out on the course and, uh, tell dirty jokes and smoke cigars and drink

beer and, and tell everybody we were a scratch golfer. So, uh, no pun intended. So I think she was probably out there for about two hours. Okay. Now I know why I never play golf. Okay. Um, we have, uh, some indications she had only been out there. We know from what Judah Chase is telling us is two hours or less, but I have reason to believe it's less than that even. That was an outside figure. What I'm trying to figure out is what happened to this young Iowa student murdered on a golf course. Listen to more of the 911 call.

I have a white female wearing a black Under Armour sports bra, black skirt. That appears as though she's deceased. You want me to attempt to remove her from the water at this point? Copy, do what you can. We got Duncan and I headed that way. I am on the far north end of Hole 9 at the pond, north end of the pond. Just a second, I'm going to stand by. I pulled the female up to the bank.

Yeah, we'll need some touch-ups down here. We'll need to comb this area pretty good. This place, Coldwater Golf Links, is absolutely beautiful. I'm taking a look at it right now. Perfectly manicured. You would never have a clue that a murder was about to go down. To Karen Smith, forensics expert, we have reason to believe that she was out in the open

for really only about 30 minutes or less. What does that tell you about her killer willing to attack out in the open for really only about 30 minutes or less. What does that tell you about her killer willing to attack out in the open on a golf course? Well, it was certainly a crime of opportunity, Nancy. This is somebody who was either watching her or stayed or lived nearby. You know, when you, a golf course is normally a closed facility. There's fencing around it. You have a clubhouse. You have people either keying off in front of you or putting behind you. So this person, whoever did this, was either watching her or had seen her prior. That is my opinion in this case. I mean, she's a celebrity in the golf world.

There's no telling how many people have seen her. I mean, Ray, when you look at a professional golf tournament, let's just say the Masters, the sidelines are packed. You want to tell me there's not one freaky stalker dude in there watching these women out there playing golf, not even one? Oh, of course. And, you know, the predators find the prey. They know where the weak link, the zebra at the end of the pack, so to speak, is. And here is a now I agree with you, Nancy, and I wish the world we all do was a place that was safe for women by themselves and young children. But we have to be realistic that there are predators out there, and they know where to go.

Now, a golf course, as you said, a beautiful course, and as was pointed out, probably surrounded by fencing, perhaps as we have here in metro Atlanta. The course is surrounded by beautiful neighborhoods that are gated. She had to have come through the clubhouse usually to start. So there will be a check-in time that she walked through the clubhouse to get to the first tee, or as I think Chuck pointed out, she may have been playing what's called the back nine, where she started in the middle of the course. Perhaps there's a challenging,

you know, a hole that requires certain skill sets that she was working on. This lady was not golfing for entertainment. This is her profession. This is what she does. So she was out there working and concentrating to get better. But as was aptly pointed out, this is clearly a crime of opportunity. It's good. Holding back tears, Harley Thornton has a hard time finding his words. A Monday morning here at Coldwater Golf Links in Ames turned into a traumatic experience.

Thornton and three friends were golfing when they met a young woman who he describes as an experienced golfer in her 20s. This very nice young lady came up with her push cart and we all agreed that she should go in front of us. We knew she'd be a lot faster than a bunch of old men. But when they got to the ninth hole, he says the woman's golf clubs and cell phone were sitting there, but she was nowhere in sight. This was very strange and not right. There's no reason to abandon your clubs in the middle of the fairway. Thornton says he called the clubhouse, who told him they hadn't seen her either. 911 was his next call.

Ames police interviewed Thornton to get a grasp on the timelines. We saw her about 8.45. Then when I called the clubhouse, it was 10.10. He also described the scene at the ninth hole, saying he found several tees scattered about. He believes was the victim's golf hat. Could easily have been where she was apprehended and struggled enough to lose the ball marker off of her cap. Thornton says he didn't see anything suspicious or hear any screams. With hundreds of apartments in plain view across the street, he doesn't understand how something like this could happen. 9 30 10 o'clock in the morning with

full view of anyone that wanted to look. That's a very brazen act. You are hearing golfer Harley Thornton speaking to our friend Laura Terrell at KCCI. The golfing world is stunned as a bright light's life brought to a sudden end. This 22-year-old young pro, I call her a pro. She had just won the European Ladies Amateur in Slovakia. She is an Iowa college student. And that win in Europe secured her invitation to next year's Women's British Open. That is a huge big deal, the British Open in the golf world. She also had just advanced last month to Stage 2 of the LPGA Tour Qualifying Tournament.

She's on fire. Her family and friends stunned at the news. She is murdered on a Monday morning in broad daylight on a golf course. To Dr. Jan Gorniak, Fulton County Medical Examiner, very well known in her field. Dr. Gorniak, thank you for being with us. Dr. Gorniak, we have heard the phrase crime of opportunity thrown around quite often, but is there any way when you are conducting an autopsy that you can tell that? No, we can't. So the crime of opportunity, when we go to the scene, which in this case would be the

golf course, we take into account, like everybody's saying, the time of day where she was found compared to where her stuff is found, her golf clubs, her hat, things like that. But just like any other citizen, we can say, yes, it appears to be a crime of opportunity, but from the medical legal standpoint, we can't say that. So Raymond Giudice, Atlanta defense attorney joining me, what will they be looking for to determine any potential motive? Well, I think that one thing, first of all, there's going to be anticipated an enormous amount of DNA exchange between the perpetrator and the victim. This is a very physical one-on-one fight that led to her death. I would anticipate there may be defensive wounds on the perpetrator, that there would be contact

and skin exchange and perhaps blood exchange, fingernails, scratching, things like that. That type of a fight, especially with this young lady who was an athlete, who probably would not – and keep in mind, why is it a crime of opportunity? Because let's just take the 911 caller, a middle-aged gentleman that was probably in a foursome. The perpetrator is not going to go after those four guys. He's going to pick off the single female out there by herself, pulling her bag, walking the course. So that type of facts make it what I would allege is a climb of opportunity where the perpetrator was looking for the weakest, what he perceived to be the easiest victim out there. But boy, there's going to be, I anticipate, a lot of DNA exchange

between the body of the victim and the alleged perpetrator. Ray, you're absolutely correct. And to Karen Smith joining me, veteran forensics expert Karen, not only is there going to be really hand-to-hand mutual combat, as Ray Giudice has pointed out but also there is very strong evidence she was sex assaulted and I'm telling you I think that's the motive still that doesn't tell me who the perp is unless I can get a DNA match it could be a stalker it could be an ex-boyfriend it could be anybody but what I'm saying is that's the motive, I would think. I agree with you 100%.

You know, there's a reason that this perpetrator, and I'm going to say it's a man, chose a woman, you know, he may have bitten off a little bit more than he could chew if she fought back, which, you know, it sounds to me like she did. At this point, yes, they will do a sexual assault kit and find out if there's any DNA from her body. And they'll run it through the CODIS system to see if there's any matches that are already in the system. If not, they're going to have to find a perpetrator and then get a known sample and compare it with that. Police say that Celia had broken down in tears when she found out she had been named the school's 2018 female athlete of the year. That is incredible. But now people are mourning her and planning a funeral. So back to

you, Dr. Jan Gorniak, Fulton County Medical Examiner. when you realize, I guess because you find a body partially or totally nude, that the motive is a sex attack, how does that change the autopsy, Dr. Gorniak? When there's a possibility that a sexual assault has occurred based on how the body was found, whether they're partially clothed or just some preliminary circumstances, we need to know that. And the police usually tell us that when we go to the scene for the initial death investigation. So at the scene, we will bag the hands. And also when prior to the autopsy, which is very important for us to know, is we will do a sexual assault kit, which includes getting hair samples, head hair, pubic hair, fingernail scrapings, swabs of the mouth, the vaginal area, the rectum. So then we will feel that and then send it off to, you know,

through the police or a crime lab to be tested. But it's very important that we know so we're not rinsing off a body and losing evidence prior to collecting those samples. This woman, this young girl, Celia, was the Athlete of the Year at Iowa State University. She was just a few classes away from getting her civil engineering degree. Is that right, Chuck Roberts? It is. It is. She was just a few months away from that. As you pointed out, she was scheduled to go to Europe and play again, ranked 69th nationally by Golf Week,

ending her collegiate career with a fourth straight NCAA regional appearance and won the Big 12 team tournament as well. So accomplished is certainly an understatement. The perp not afraid to attack her in daylight out on an open golf course. Take a listen to this. Familiarity with the golf course can be a big advantage. Barquinda Rosamina has played here at Coldwater and Ames countless times. She probably knows every nook and cranny of this course.

This was just the second time that she had played at the Dallas Athletic Club. The first time, as a freshman, she shot a career-worst 86. This time, with the Big 12 tournament on the line, she shot a final round 69 to win the title by three strokes. Yeah, I've actually been talking about it with Coach all year. I'm always like, oh, we're playing Big 12 here. And she's like, stop yourself, all right? You're going to do just fine.

Forget about freshman year. She hated this golf course, which also is amazing because a lot of times it's hard for golfers to get over that when they have bad thoughts about it. So that in itself was a huge accomplishment for her. Mind over matter. That's how barquiner Rosamina has grown to become so strong mentally that when she arrived at the golf course Sunday for that final round, she celebrated weather conditions that most players dread. When I started practicing,

I noticed that it was super windy and I love that. I'm a really good wind player, so I texted my family right before playing. I'm like, mom, it's super windy. This is great. When a lot of people kind of look at it and say, oh man, I'm not going to play well today, it's kind of like she says, well, nobody else is going to play well, but I am. A break in the case, in the murder of a golf superstar, a young girl, an Iowa State University student, just hours away, student hours away from getting her degree in civil engineering, brutally sexually attacked and murdered in plain sight, broad daylight, on an open golf course. Her life brutally ended there. And what we are learning is the guy that is now under suspicion is Colin Richards with a 50-page rap sheet. A 50-page rap sheet. A 50 page rap sheet. He has gotten second, third, fourth, and fifth chances.

And now we are left with the horrible realization that the justice system exercised leniency so often that they actually freed Celia Barkin, Aris Amania's's alleged killer early. This guy should have been behind bars. Chuck Roberts, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. What are we learning in the last hours about her murder? We are learning that Colin Richards, who was living in a camp in a tent not far from the golf course, told an acquaintance the day before that he had, quote, an urge to rape and kill a woman. That is embodied in the criminal complaint. As you pointed out,

he's been charged with abusing a girlfriend, stealing a pickup truck, using a baseball bat to smash a car window many times in the criminal system. But he was living outside that golf course and dogs tracked his scent and found Richards with fresh scratches on his face, consistent with fighting and a deep laceration in his left hand, which he tried to conceal. County Medical Examiner. You know, Dr. Gorniak, raising the twins, I got to tell you, I put all my time when I'm not working, all my energy, all my love, all my hopes, all my dreams in them. And, you know, I guess like other middle class people all across the country, you want your child to succeed. Why? Not for success itself, but so their life will be easier for them to get them through a good high school so they can get into a college or maybe a graduate program so they can then get a job that can sustain them. I know her parents were so proud. Here she is, not only a star golfer at her young age of 22, but getting her civil engineering degree. And she's physically beautiful and by all accounts, a wonderful person,

bubbly, happy, thrilled that her hard work had paid off. So when all the parents' dreams are just coming true, they find their daughter is murdered in such a brutal way. What does it mean to you, Dr. Gorniak, that he, the alleged perp, is covered in scratches and lacerations? Well, from the legal side, or the medical legal side, the investigation side, we would have to know, compare her hands. If she has any injuries to her hands, fingernails broken, that could be consistent with him being scratched by her. So if we can link up injuries from her body to injuries on his body, then it's saying that he was in close proximity to have injured this beautiful young lady. You know, Raymond Giudice, on October of 2017, that's not even a year ago,

the Judicial District Department of Correction Services document Richards. They document this guy and they state Mr. Richards has not been successful on probation for any length of time. They tell the judge he's in violation, and he should serve the rest of a two-year sentence. He gets out early anyway, and now this. He did not serve the sentence. They asked the judge to give, and now he's out. I mean, how do judges do it and live with it, Ray? It is probably the nightmare that any sitting judge has, is to pick up the paper for us old-timers or turn on the computer to see. Judge released the defendant early, who then commits horrific crime. And we have a terrible

story just like this here in Metro Atlanta recently, where a very good judge, a former prosecutor as a superior court judge, allowed somebody out on a bond that had been charged, a young man, 18, who committed a murder right here in metro Atlanta at a country club where the victim had been leaving a wedding party. It's just awful. And so every judge – and this is why some people are cut out for judgeships and some are not. They have to sleep with this every night when they put their head on the pillow. Enormous stress. Now, as this gentleman's record appears to show, he is a serial criminal. He would have gotten out sooner or later, Nancy. And

if I can say one thing, as someone who has cross-examined probably at this point thousands of police officers and investigators and detectives't I would suggest that they don't push too hard to squeeze a confession or a statement out of this be properly mirandized or could be challenged or perhaps this person is not of sufficient medical mental acuity you know there's so many challenges for us oh here we go well here we go with the mental defense because he just told a fellow resident he wanted to rape a woman right okay and know, Raymond, you were around practicing actually as a prosecutor in a nearby jurisdiction when I was prosecuting. And I guess you recall how I would labor emotionally over every case, taking a plea, because I look at a guy and think, wow, you know, if I let this guy have probation and then he gets out and hurts somebody, kills somebody, rapes somebody, that's on me. And it literally tortured me. I would be sick to my stomach, throw up, stay awake at night trying to do the right thing. It's torturous. Do you remember that? I do, Nancy. And I think even criminal defense lawyers, believe it or not, on these

challenging cases, we're citizens. We have loved ones. We live in the community. Our kids take school buses and are potential predators. We're concerned about it. But what I'm really getting at here is that there's so much physical evidence that can be presented in court by great experts like our medical examiner. Don't try to squeeze a confession out of this perpetrator, this alleged perpetrator, up early. Get the physical evidence first and then build your

case from that. But, you know, as we've seen on all the live... You know what I say? You can't ever overdo it. You have one swing at the ball, one bite of the apple. Get the confession and seek the death penalty. There's no death. I don't believe this is a death penalty state, Nancy. When we talk about violent crime, it's almost as if we're drinking from a fire hydrant. It's just too much, too fast, too furious. If you have heard about the murder of Jessica Chambers, don't miss the new docuseries on oxygen, the true story of a teen girl, cheerleader, Mississippi, burned alive. The story of the man now accused of the heinous crime. Is the right guy on trial? Who is he? And who was Jessica Chambers? How does such a horrific crime even occur? More questions than

answers. It's a case that has captured national headlines, taken over social media, and has now. It is unspeakable crime. The killing of Jessica Chambers, Saturdays, 7, 6 Central, on Oxygen, the new network for crime. The Queen will have some words tomorrow. I'm not talking about the Queen of England. Those are chilling words from an email sent to an ex-boyfriend by his jilted lover, his former girlfriend, who we now believe ordered a fake pregnancy tummy from Amazon in a sustained and ongoing stalking campaign against her boyfriend, including at his place of work. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Can you imagine having your girlfriend or boyfriend calling your place of business and trashing you, being all crazy? Chuck Roberts, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter.

Let's just start at the beginning. Who jessica nordquist jessica nordquist 25 years old from small town america lands a great job at an ad agency in london and immediately hooks up with mark weeks who lives in london himself uh and they start wait a minute wait a minute chuck when you say hook up do you mean dating do you mean they're friends or do you just mean they're having sleepovers um former lover i would say okay they were pretty hot and heavy she arrived in july uh they start dating uh the next month and they break up um in november and that's when the stalking campaign against her ex-boyfriend began. When you say stalking campaign, what do you mean by that?

She insisted that he raped her. Uh, she went online and said that she actually went to the hospital to purportedly have an abortion of his baby. And he went with her. I don't know how that came out, but she claimed that she was eight weeks pregnant. She also apparently told people she was about to take an overdose. She was actually found to be home and fine. And she sends him threatening emails referring to herself as the queen in the game of chess. And you refer to it yourself. Just stop right there, Chuck Roberts. So pretends to be pregnant, complete with a fake pregnancy belly from Amazon, then calling and threatening him at work,

claiming she had to go to the hospital to have an abortion, even taking him with her, threatening an overdose when she was at home and fine, when people checked in on her. I got to go to a shrink because this is making my teeth hurt. Joining me out of L.A., Dr. Bethany this is making my teeth hurt. Joining me out of LA, Dr. Bethany Marshall. Bethany, hello. Help me out here. Nut job extraordinaire. Referring to herself as the queen in a game of chess. Seriously? Well, not only was she stalking him,

but she wanted to have ultimate power over him. I mean, she really wanted to make sure. I don't get that, Bethany. Why do I want control and dominion? I want him to have his own life. Well, that's because you're a rational person that has a life and wants him to go do his things. This lady's cray cray. And here's my question.

Number one, why do men like girls who are cray cray? Because some of them do. Number two, do you remember the show glee that was on tv and though i'll never forget i was working those 10 years i've never saw glee i'm sorry my kids and i love that show so we were watching glee and the wife of the glee teacher actually did exactly this and ordered a fake pregnant tummy and guess what in that show she was crazy too what is it true dr bethany do men like crazy women they like them at first because the craziness feels exciting stimulating that like the world's like a fun place but then what happens is when the woman starts stalking them that's when they

run to my therapy office and they start complaining. And you know, trapping a man through pregnancy as a very common ploy for women who have borderline personality disorder, or not even just through getting pregnant, but through pseudosciences, which is a false pregnancy. I've seen that in my office before. I have never, ever heard of somebody ordering an actual baby bump. Like, as the reporter said, who knows what happened when she went to the hospital. I mean, she puts her foot in the stirrups, the guy goes to examine her and whoops, there's a piece of foam up there. I mean, this is obviously not a very thought out ploy. Now, she allegedly posted a series of messages online, one accusing him of rape. The state also claims she ordered this fake baby bump from Amazon.

That's pretty easy to trace. Another issue is that she would follow him around the office before the breakup, leaving him notes on his desk, on his bicycle. We also are learning that she tells police that both she and the victim had been the victims of another stalker. I mean, it's lie on top of lie on top of lie. Kenya Johnson, the easy part for the prosecutor is that a lot of these allegations stem from emails and texts and notes. That's fairly easy to introduce into court if you lay the right foundation. Absolutely. The courts have caught up with technology, and you're able to lay the foundation to prove the reliability of the origin of those communications.

And so once they're able to do that, that can come into court. Well, correct me if I'm wrong, Chuck Roberts, but it seems like they break up. And then she asked if they could rekindle their romance. He rejected her. And then she sends him an Instagram saying, quote, I'm telling people at work I had an abortion. And if they ask with who, I'll say you. Is this true? It's absolutely true.

And it comes out because in January, she was arrested and her phone and iPad were seized and all that came out. And also, she allegedly began sending messages to herself and the ex-boyfriend to make it look as though they were coming from a third party. One of them was setting up a meeting on January 13th. You're going to meet me at Sh Ditch Grind Cafe. If neither of you show, we're going to release your past secrets around the office. We will come for you. Okay, so now she's pretending that there is yet another stalker stalking them both. And guess what? The penalty is for not showing up. That the so-called stalker is going to release his, the boyfriend's secrets at the office.

And I'm looking at a photo, Dr. Bethany. She's all smiley looking, really kind of cute. He's got two black eyes in the photo. Wonder where they came from. Wonder where. Well, you know, you've heard me talk so much about the psychology of stalking, but it really applies here again, that the psychology is that the perpetrator feels that there's a unique and special relationship with the victim, even when there's evidence to the contrary, or there's no evidence to support the fact that there's a unique and special relationship. And so the perpetrator goes after the victim to punish the victim for perceived rejection. And I can see that written all over this case, that she imagines that they're an item, that they're still together. She's obsessed with him. And every time he doesn't

return a phone call or a text or doesn't like something on Instagram, then she wants to punish him for the rejection. And the punishment keeps escalating and escalating till it rises to the level of criminality. Well, what we have learned, Ashley Wilcott, is allegedly police found searches for, quote, fake babies on her account and a silicone baby bump was ordered from Amazon. She had also researched whether people can track where emails are sent from. Okay. And then she goes on to send the boyfriend raunchy text messages about her love life, claiming she had hooked up with some guy that she met in Soho. So I guess that's to try to make him jealous, Ashley. That's what I would think, right, Nancy. And so I think she's engaging

in behavior that she thinks can get him to come back. In her mind, I don't think she thinks it's stalking. She thinks if I do all these things, I can manipulate his behavior so that he comes back to me and he's jealous and he wants to be with me. I think, though, the point that was made is that that rises to the level of a crime and she's crossed the line. What does it mean to you, Dr. Bethany, that she keeps referring to herself as the queen, as in a chess game? Like if you can protect the queen, she's the most valuable piece on the board. She protects your king, blah, blah, blah. Well, it tells me two things. One is that she has a very idealized view of herself, that she imagines herself to be the queen. And who has the ultimate

power? The queen. Everybody does her bidding. So she's trying to have power over her victim. And if he doesn't do her bidding, heads will roll. And so this is the punishment aspect. And this is the two black eyes that you see that if the queen doesn't get her way, that there's going to be punishment that will be doled out. Okay, guys, we wait for justice to unfold. I mean, what a nut job, but don't get me wrong. This woman is not legally insane. Poor guy. Nancy Grace, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.