Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Gorgeous 20-year-old snatched at bus stop on way home from work, bound, tortured, raped & murdered. UNSOLVED! WHO MURDERED EVE WILKOWITZ?

Episode Date: December 29, 2020

Gorgeous New Yorker Eve Wilkowitz was just 20 years old when someone brutally murdered her and leaving her body on a lawn in 1980. Eve's sister has vowed to never give up until the killer is caught.Now, 40 years later, new DNA methods may hold the clues police need for an arrest.Joining Nancy Grace to discuss: Tony Destefano - Newsday Journalist  Phil Vetrano - Father of slain jogger, Karina Vetrano Shera LaPoint - Genetic Genealogist, The Gene Hunter John Cardillo - Host of "America Talks" on Newsmax TV, Former NYPD  Dr. Kris Sperry - Retired Chief Medical Examiner for the State of Georgia  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. March 25, a woman notices a barefoot figure lyingowitz, last seen boarding a late-night train home from work. To this day, the mystery surrounding Eve Wilkowitz goes on. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. She was very sweet. She loved horses. Horses were her passion. She loved to read. Eve was the older one, and the two sisters were living in Oakdale when they endured the loss of their mother to breast cancer. Eve later wanted some independence and moved out to live with a boyfriend in Bayshore. She was afraid of him. She felt something wasn't right.

But Eve had started to find a life in Manhattan with a promising job at Macmillan Publishing. A young writer there took an interest in Eve, and he was the one who dropped her at Penn Station for the last train to Bayshore on that Friday night in March. The only thing I know is she got on the train from Penn Station. We knew she was on the train. Eve Wilkowitz made a final trip on the Long Island Railroad to Bayshore. The ride to her South Shore town should have taken less than 90 minutes. You are hearing our friends at PIX 11 in New York, Mary Murphy, Eve Wilkowitz. All you have to do is Google to pull up her gorgeous photo. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. With me, an all-star panel, starting with Newsday journalist Tony DiStefano, Cheryl LaPointe, genetic genealogist, the gene hunter, John Cardillo, host of America Talks on Newsmax TV, former NYPD, and renowned former chief medical examiner, Dr. Chris Sperry. But joining me right now and first is not only a colleague, but a very dear friend,

the father of slain jogger Karina Vetrano. Phil Vetrano, her father, was dragged out of Karina's funeral in order to give DNA to help catch her killer. And he did it happily. He did it happily. And that is an example of a crime victim, a loving parent trying to find whoever killed his daughter. But now the fight is on to make familial DNA a reality in every jurisdiction.

Phil Vetrano, why is this so important to you? Why is 20-year-old Eve Wilkowitz so important to you? Well, I think this is all I have left to do, you know, like sort of like John Walsh, when Adam was killed. I tried to continue my life the way it was, but I just couldn't. And I heard this story. I got a little email from Rock Harmon out in California, and he said it would be a good idea for SS testing. And I decided that this is what's going to happen. We're going to get this tested. and he said it would be a good idea for SS testing.

And I decided that this is what's going to happen. We're going to get this tested, and we're going to try to find help, you know, find who killed Irene's sister Eve, because it's 40 years. And that's a long time without any answers. And that wound never healed. Oh, my stars, Phil. Oh, how awful. I mean, you know my fiancé was murdered. His killer was caught and prosecuted.

You suffered both ways for the many, many months you did not know who Karina's murderer was and then the fight to get him convicted. Joining me right now, Newsday journalist Tony DiStefano. Tony, let's start at the beginning with Eve Wilkowitz. Who is she? Tell me about her. Eve Wilkowitz was a 20-year-old woman originally from Long Island, and she was working in New York City

at a publishing house. This is in 1980. We're talking March of 1980 when this all transpired. But she was living, you know, working in Manhattan, living back on Long Island,

the town of Bayshore, and doing a commuting life. She had a boyfriend in the city, and she was living in Bayshore. And, you know, she was a young girl starting off in a secretarial career. Tony, isn't it true that the snoots in Manhattan call anybody living outside the city of Manhattan, they call them B&Ts, bridge and tunnels, because you got to take a bridge or a tunnel to get in. And the rents are so high in Manhattan, nobody can afford to live there. So they live outside in the surrounding boroughs like she did and would take a bridge or a tunnel

train to get in. So here she is living the dream. And when I look at her, you're going to laugh, Phil. I think about that girl. Do you remember that show? I was just a little, little girl. And I remember it being on the TV and it was with Marlo Thomas. And she moved to the big city to get a job and make her way in the world. And this Eve reminds me so much of her in so many ways. But go ahead, go ahead with the story. So she's got her place in Bayshore. She commutes in every day to work. Yeah, she's, you know, she's living back in Bayshore.

She's actually living with an old boyfriend in a rather platonic situation. They were, they remained friends and they shared an apartment together. And she was, you know, in the beginning of her career, whatever it was going to be. And she took the train home Friday night, and the boyfriend, the current boyfriend at the time, put her on the train, saw her off, and that was it. She got on the train.

People know she was on the train. She got off at Bayshore. Okay, wait. Let me just stop you right there. Tony DiStefano, Newsday journalist. Are we sure she got on the train? Was she observed by anybody other than her boyfriend? Yes, the conductors.

Okay. The train conductor. And they had her. They knew she was on. They remembered and recalled her being present on the train. You know, as a matter of fact, take a listen to our friends at PIX 11. This is Mary Murphy. Three days after Eve Wilkowitz failed to come home from Manhattan,

her body was discovered here at the Bayshore Long Island Railroad Station, her original destination. She was strangled. I know her hands were tied. They had like rope burns, I'm pretty sure, around her hands. The police told Eve's family she'd been held alive for three days before she was killed. Whoever they could find, they interviewed. The boyfriend she was living with, did the police tell you they ruled him out? Yeah, I believe so. The murder was long before the evolution

of DNA testing, and in the years that followed, Irene Brosner didn't talk much about the case to her daughter Dara and son Evan. My mother explained to me that I was named after Eve. It was definitely an honor to be named after her. You're hearing our friend Mary Murphy along with Irene Wilkowitz-Brossner and brother Evan Brossner. To Dr. Chris Sperry, a renowned former chief medical examiner, Dr. Sperry, how would the medical examiner know that she was held alive for three days before she was murdered? I think the medical examiner would be able to give an estimation like that based upon

probably the absence of decomposition, the absence of changes that would be present if she had been dead all that period of time. if her body appeared to be very fresh and there was no decomposition, no bloating or gas accumulations, the things that occur after death or the passage of time, then, I mean, that's a very reasonable conclusion. Okay, Dr. Crisperi,

just break it down for me just for a moment. And I'm going into this in depth because it matters. And I'm going into this in depth because it matters. And I'm also doing this because I don't have her family member on because this would certainly cause them a lot of sorrow and agitation. But Dr. Chris Berry, explain to me how you can tell a body is, as you say, fresh. I've never really heard it referred that way, but okay. Go ahead, Dr. Sperry.

You're the ME. I'm just a JD. Tell me the ways you can look at a dead body and almost, almost automatically know it is fresh as opposed to having been lying out in the elements for three days. Well, the first thing would be evaluation of the rigor mortis or the stiffness in the muscles and joints that develops after death. And this will begin at room temperatures, usually about 20 to 30 minutes after someone dies, but then progress. And by 12 hours, the body will be very, very stiff. And over the next maybe 12 to 24 hours, all that begins to pass so that the stiffness is lost.

And so in evaluating a body that has been found outside like this, the degree, if any, of stiffness in the joints, the presence of rigor mortis, or the absence of it that is to indicate that it's passing, gives at least a broad estimation of perhaps how long the body has been out. And one thing you said, which is very important, that is if a deceased body is put out in the elements, then lots of other things start to happen. Insects will find the body and lay eggs because this is part of nature. This is how the natural world takes care of any dead organism. Other bugs and creatures really make food out of it and breed. Finding a body outside, say for instance, if the person has been

missing for three days, but yet there's no evidence of any fly larvae on the body, any maggots, anything that indicates insect activity, then that means the body has been somewhere else. And probably the person very likely could have been alive if there's no other changes like decomposition, bloating, gas accumulation, slippage of the skin, all of the things that occur, again, with the passage of time. So if a body is found and there's no evidence of any insect or animal predation, no maggots, there's no swelling, no bloating, all of these different factors work together to really give the ability to say that the person not only hasn't been outside for three or four days, but also was probably alive. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I would hear music through the walls all the time. The Beatles, Elton John, Billy Joel.

To this day, when Irene Brosina of East Meadow hears a Billy Joel song or a Beatles classic, she's flooded with emotions. Growing up in Oakdale, Irene and her older sister Eve were close. They remained that way until March 25th, 1980. That's when 20-year-old Eve Wilkowitz's lifeless body was found just blocks away from the Bayshore train station. After 36 years, her death still remains an unsolved mystery, even though she expressed concern to her family just a week before she was murdered. She's saying that I think someone's been following me. Eve commuted to and from Manhattan, where she worked as a secretary for a publishing house. At night, she routinely made the 10-minute walk from the station to her Bayshore apartment.

Suffolk police believe she was abducted while walking home. Detectives interviewed multiple suspects, but never made an arrest. Published reports at the time suggested that Eve was most likely held captive for three days and sexually abused. You're hearing our friends at News 12 Long Island. That was Rich Barabi speaking. On her way home from work, she was a commuter, gets off the train, and is never seen alive again. Days later, her body is found. Now, we are learning right now that it's believed her hands have been tied based on burn marks on her hands and that she had been sex abused.

What really happened to 20-year-old Eve? Can you imagine the torture of being held alive for days on end, only to be murdered, your body discarded? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. To John Cardillo, former NYPD host of America Talks on Newsmax. John, again, thank you for being with us. That sounds like a well thought out plan for some or would it be a crime of opportunity? Someone possibly seeing her on the train and suddenly deciding to attack her. But there is one clue that suggests this was long planned. Listen.

I just figured any day now, you know, we'll hear closure. And, you know, any day is now 36 years later. And still, my dad never saw closure. And, you know, he died in 2010. So he never got answers. That's one of the things that makes me most sad, you know. So all I know is she was out with her friend in the city she was working at Macmillan publishing in Manhattan and she was having dinner with her friend

and she was gonna go on the train to come home and never made it home I don't know if my dad heard it but I know I did and I don't think I'm making up all these years I still kind of remember saying I think someone's been following. I think that was one of the last times I saw her, is that last conversation saying that I think someone's been following me. Okay, that's not enough to just send chills down your spine. I don't know what it is to think someone's following you. That's our friend at Newsday speaking along with Sister Irene. Back to you, John Cardillo, the fact that you believe someone is following you, is that real or is that just the stuff that novels are made of?

No, I absolutely think the family, their gut instinct and yours, Nancy, is in the right place. For your listeners, viewers that don't live in the New York area, aren't familiar, that's a crowded train. The Long Island Railroad line from Manhattan to Bayshore is incredibly crowded. More importantly, a lot of police officers, a lot of firefighters live out there. They're on that train. So first instinct, 30,000 foot view, I agree.

I think this was pre-planned. You certainly wouldn't commit the abduction on the train. It sounds like she was a rush hour commuter. But that particular line, those train cars are pretty crowded, even 8.30, 9 o'clock, 10 o'clock at night. People have after work dinners in the city, that kind of thing. So my initial instinct says she was followed off the train and abducted somewhere in a dark part of the Bayshore station, or maybe walking to a vehicle, walking to a cab stand, something like that. And that's somebody certainly who tracked her, who followed her,

who planned this out, who knew her movements, who knew her schedule. It's unlikely that on that crowded Long Island Railroad line, the abduction would have happened on the train. So I think the family's instincts are dead on point. To Tony DiStefano, Newsday journalist. Tony, she actually told family members and maybe others she felt someone had been following her. But did she ever give a description or who she thought was following her? Well, she may have given enough of a description because the police subsequent many years subsequent told me that there was a person that they focused on who they believe was following her and they cleared that person from involvement you know through dna testing uh so i i think she did relate enough of that

uh to allow uh law enforcement to focus in on somebody eventually. But that person turned out to be non-culpable, as it were. So, you know, this was not a figment of her imagination, I don't believe. Okay, so that was not made up. She actually gave a description and told several people she felt she was being followed. I'm just learning she worked at Macmillan Publishers, which is a huge book publishing company, headquarters in Manhattan. They have very prominent imprints, sell books all around the world, award-winning books for children and adults in every category. I remember growing up, some of our textbooks or books that

we had at school were Macmillan. That opens up a whole plethora of potential suspects. If she worked in a skyscraper in downtown Manhattan, was going in and out at lunch for coffee breaks, who could have seen her or who could have been watching her on her train? And this is someone we believe was following her. And that makes a big difference. Joining me, the dad of jogger Karina Vetrano. Phil Vetrano is with us. You know, Phil, there's a big difference between someone that's been stalking you and someone that just happens upon you at that moment. And it's a crime of opportunity, Phil Vetrano. Yeah. And I'm not sure that Karina's killer just happened to be there. I'm not sure. We're never going to know. We're never going to know for sure. But I kind of believe he was looking for her.

And because just to be at that exact place at that exact time, hidden so well, and I think he was there the week prior when I was on vacation. But, you know, questions like that are never going to be answered. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. So all I know is she was out with her friend in the city. She was working at McMillan Publishing in Manhattan, and she was having dinner with her friend, and she was going to go on the train to come home and never made it home. I don't know if my dad heard it, but I know I did, and I don't think I'm making it up. All these years I still kind of remember her saying, I think someone's been following me.

I think that was one of the last times I saw her is that last conversation saying that I think someone's been following me. You are hearing the sister, Irene Wilkowitz Brosner, speaking on a Newsday interview. John Cardillo hosts America Talks on Newsmax TV, former NYPD. I always say there's no coincidence in criminal law, and I find it very difficult to believe that this young girl, Eve Wilkowitz, just 20 years old, believes somebody's following her. She tells family members and maybe others about it. Then she ends up dead, having been kept alive for three days. I don't think that's a coincidence, John Cardillo. No, I don't at all, but unfortunately, the police can't act on a mere gut feeling, right?

That's the scary part of this. Even if she had said to her family, I think I'm being followed. There's a guy with brown hair and blue eyes. Well, if they interview that guy, even if he turned out to be the perp and he says, well, yeah, I get off the same train she does every day. I take it from Manhattan like she does. And we walk the same direction to our vehicles. There's nothing the police can do. So even if that person subsequently turns out to be the bad guy, it's not an indictment of the

police or of her family not taking action. There was really no crime to report other than a gut suspicion prior to her abduction and subsequent murder. Eve Wolkowicz, 20 years old, working at a publishing house when her body was found near the Bay Shore train station. I'm learning it was about a 10-minute walk from the station to where she lived in her apartment with her friend. To Tony DiStefano, Newsday journalist, what else can you tell me about Eve's body? What was discovered? Well, she was discovered by a housewife looking out the window as she was making coffee and saw the body on the ground. There had been signs, it was clear that she had been raped. That came out subsequent. The family didn't know this until very recently, but the police obviously did know. And there was evidence that she had been bound, and there was asphyxia, evidence that she was strangled.

And there she was. She was dropped off like a sack of potatoes on the side of the road. Pretty chilling. The fact that she was raped, Cheryl LaPointe joining me, genetic genealogist, the gene hunter. Obviously, they have not been able to match up DNA found in and on her body to the killer. Explain to me, what is familial DNA? So Nancy, familial DNA is actually a process that's used to run through the CODIS system looking for a familial match to the DNA that they have. We can, an exact match would find the perpetrator, but many states now allow familial DNA, and that allows you to run that DNA through the CODIS system, which has the DNA of criminals and convicted felons, and you can look for a family member, a parent, a child, or a sibling would show up with familial DNA.

And lots of times that leads police to an area where they can actually find who the criminal is. To Tony DiStefano, Newsday journalist, tell me about what you know regarding DNA found on or in Eve's body. Well, it was enough. I think it was robust enough for them to take the sample, run it through CODIS. Of course, they got no hits on that. Compare it with possible suspects, such as boyfriends, ex-boyfriends, and other people, and come up with no hits, as it were, as it was explained to us. The sample was good enough for that, and what they have in terms of the profile of the unknown male,

they are now going to try to take and run it through the genealogical searching and also through familial searching. So there's enough there for them to do the searching, and it was a good enough sample. Sometimes the samples are not very good, and they can't do familial searching or any other kind of searching. New York State sometimes rejected, I think, probably about a dozen or so samples they got from law enforcement

over the years recently because the samples are just not good. They're not enough to compare. Well, this is what I know. New DNA methods could crack this case, but New York won't allow it. When the Golden State Killer case was cracked wide open based on familial DNA, the remaining relatives of Eve Wilkowitz thought it would crack their case wide open as well. I don't understand why, why it's not being allowed to Phil Vetrano, who is championing and campaigning for the use of familial DNA. Why are they not allowing it in Eve Wilkowitz's case, Phil? That's a very good question, Nancy. And, you know, it's been, it's going to be three years on February, in February 10th, that New York State passed the law. Three years. And there hasn't been a single case where we have solved the crime. And that also makes me wonder, are they actually running the tests? I don't even know. You know, that's a question.

Why aren't they using it or why haven't they found anybody? I don't know. You know, it's very strange. We do know that Wilkins' relatives contacted a private DNA group. Now, this private DNA group used this investigative genealogical technique to solve violent crimes, and it sparked interest in the technique. Parabon, they did not do the Golden State Killer case, has since helped dozens of cases become solved, and they are led by the company's genetic genealogist, C.C. Moore. Now, here's the problem. New York regulates private companies performing DNA forensic tests. I wonder, because it's a private company, if that's why they won't allow it. I don't understand why they won't do it themselves. Cheryl LaPointe, genetic genealogist,

the gene hunter. Cheryl, how difficult would it be to, if you've got DNA, how much do you need? What quality? Does it have to be not degener've got DNA, how much do you need? What quality? Does it have to be not degenerated? How can we do this? Nancy, this DNA would have to be put in what we call a SNP file, and it would have to be uploaded to the genealogical sites that we use, the same sites that I use daily to help adoptees find their biological family. You put that information in there there and you look for connections, biological connections to ancestors.

I believe this case definitely could benefit from this process. We would look for shared ancestors. I build a family tree and I find common lines and give leads to law enforcement that hopefully would direct them to someone who is connected to this criminal. Cheryl LaPointe, I've got a question for you. For people that want to do, for instance, Ancestry.com or whatever it is they want to do, is there a way that they make their names secret? Do they get false IDs so it makes it harder to track them down? Yes, ma'am. You can use aliases on any of these direct-to-consumer DNA testing companies. And oftentimes, it is difficult for us to find out who a match is. And again, all we get is a name of who the matches are. We don't see anyone's genetic code. We just get names. So it's very possible to keep

that information private. On the sites that law enforcement uses, like GEDmatch, we have to actually enter an email to upload your information. So that's how I have been contacted in the past by law enforcement, looking at matches that could possibly help them with cases. And I know now that law enforcement cases have to be specifically tagged for law enforcement use. So unless you opt in or agree to law enforcement using that, you won't be seen by law enforcement. You're right. So that's another hurdle that will have to be crossed. To host of America Talks Newsmax TV, former NYPD John Cardillo. What about it, John Cardillo? Well, look, New York State, we're talking about there's something very bizarre going on there politically. You can see it with their new no cash bail. New York State politicians 92-year-old woman was raped and murdered

by a repeat offender, set free hours after arrest because of no cash bail. And so when you've got that pro-criminal, anti-criminal justice, anti-law and order mentality in New York State, why would they deploy familial DNA, which is a travesty because it works, it's constitutional, it's investigatively sound, and it's putting bad guys in prison. And I think the people in New York State should be very, very alarmed at what's going on. To Phil Vetrano, father of Slane Jogger, Karina Vetrano, you pushed New York State to allow familial DNA, correct?

Correct, and it is allowed. And there were 14 cases brought to New York State Department of Criminal Justice that were approved for use of familial DNA testing. So it's not the governor who's putting the brakes on this. It's a very slow process, but I'm trying to find out what is taking them so long. I mean, I've even heard that they've gotten a few leads, you know, a few hits where it might be a relation. crime stories with nancy grace

new york requires private companies that want to do familial testing although if it's been allowed in new york the crime lab the state crime lab should be doing it. But private companies, before they can do DNA forensic testing, they have to get what is called a forensic identity permit from the New York State Department of Health. And that requires just private companies to make sure they're up to snuff before they hand over any DNA. You don't want to lose the DNA or damage the DNA for future testing. Dr. Chris Sperry, former chief medical examiner for the entire state of Georgia, Dr. Sperry, can't you reproduce DNA in the lab? Say you've just got a tiny bit of DNA.

Can it be regenerated so you can then share some of that with a private testing company like Parabon? Well, you can amplify DNA that is using special techniques. You can take a very, very tiny quantity of DNA and really amplify it or enlarge it so you have more to work with. But it's a very tricky process as well. And in order to do that and then share it with other companies, there's also room for error if DNA is transferred from one place to another. The best process really is to collect as much specimens as possible initially. Say when the autopsy is done and the examination of the victim is done, is collect all the clothing, take multiple swabs from everywhere on and in the body,

especially in a suspect where a rape has been suspected. And then be very careful about testing because only a tiny amount of specimen is really necessary these days to do good, accurate testing. So that's part of the quality control aspects of doing DNA testing is that one has to be very careful. Again, fortunately today, very, very, very tiny quantities are highly reliable. I mean, they're dependable. So even tiny amounts are dependable. And I think I'm hearing what you're saying correctly or understanding it correctly.

Dr. Sperry, are you saying the DNA cannot be reproduced, but you can amplify it or make it bigger so you have more to test with? Yes, exactly. That's done. That's part of the routine process, I guess. I want you to take a listen to our friends at Newsday. So all I know is she was out with her friend in the city. She was working at Macmillan Publishing in Manhattan, and she was having dinner with her friend, and she was going to go on the train to come home and never made it home.

My kids, I worry every little time they go out the door. My last words to them all the time is, be careful. I love you. I make sure I tell them every time when I see them, be careful. Be safe. You just never know. How could he have lived with himself all these years and not have turned himself in or whatever he's doing?

How could another human being do that to another human being? It's just beyond my, you know, how people could think. Don't hold it in anymore. What are you waiting for? You know, this is the time. You know, life is too short, too precious to, you know, let's help my family find answers. It's just crazy already. Well, likely because the killer, the rapist, wants to save his own skin.

He may have even committed more rapes and murders. To Tony DiStefano, Newsday journalist joining us. Tony, what is the holdup? Why won't New York State allow the familial DNA test? Well, as Phil said, it is allowed in New York. The problem is that there's a process that's a little bureaucratically cumbersome. Police agencies have to sign with the state a memorandum of understanding. And this became a big flashpoint with the NYPD, which has no role in this case, the NYPD and the state.

But it's a process. You've got to sign this memorandum. You've got to adhere this memorandum. You've got to adhere to certain processes and practices. You also have to have your people go through certain training, and you also have to get a sample that is acceptable to the state. I don't think that's a problem in this case, the Wilkowitz case. So again, what's the holdup? I know all that. What do you think is the holdup? Yeah, I think the probable holdup to me is that somewhere along the line, they haven't done these bureaucratic things. Either they haven't signed the memorandum of understanding yet, or they haven't put enough of their people through training.

The police commissioner said that they are working on it. It's a process. And OK, that's what she's doing. But it's a process and okay she that's that's what she's doing but it's a process i wonder how that makes eve's family feel listen to mary murphy picks 11 the memories can be crushing for irene brossner who started running after her mother died she was later diagnosed with a painful stomach condition crohn's disease she started doing half marathons to fundraise i really didn't have any friends whatsoever, but since Teen Challenge, I've met the most amazing people. When I'm running, that's my only time that my mind is completely like at peace. Still, Brossner's own medical challenges

have continued. Just two years ago, I was diagnosed with breast cancer and had a bilateral mastectomy, so I'm cancer-free, I think, as of right now. And at 53, Frosner said it's time to speak out for her sister. Her beloved father died in 2010 without getting justice. What is your hope now? I have to find out who did this to her. I know we can't bring her back or anything. I have to be her voice. It has to be now. If you have information, call 800-222-8477. Repeat, 800-220-8477.

Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.