Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Gorgeous Mom Cassie Carli Missing After Her Baby Girl Found

Episode Date: April 1, 2022

The search continues for missing mom Cassi Carli. The 37-year-old was last seen Sunday evening in Navarre Beach, Florida Carli was supposed to pick her daughter up from her ex during a custody exchange at around 7 p.m. Three hours later Carli had still not returned home. Her father received a text saying she was having car issues and running late. The next day he called police. Since then, Cassie’s loved ones haven’t heard from her. Her car was later located in an adjacent parking lot, with her purse still inside. Cassie’s 4-year-old was initially reported missing, but she had been located, safe.Joining Nancy Grace Today: Sam Porter - Victim's Friend, Facebook: "Missing Mom From Navarre Florida, Cassie Carli" Wendy Patrick - California prosecutor, author “Red Flags” www.wendypatrickphd.com 'Today with Dr. Wendy' on KCBQ in San Diego, Twitter: @WendyPatrickPHD Dr. Debbie Joffe Ellis - Psychologist, Professor at Columbia university in NYC, Author, Global Presenter, Author: Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy (2nd Edition), DebbieJoffeEllis.com, Twitter: @DrJoffeEllis Robert Frechette - Detective, Rochester Police Department, Strafford County Family Justice Center Nicole Partin - CrimeOnline.com Investigative Reporter, Twitter: @nicolepartin (Naples, Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A gorgeous young mom and her little girl, just four-year-old sailor, go missing. Where is Cassie? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. First of all, take a listen to our friends at WEAR-TV.

This is the woman, Cassie Carley. She was last seen on Sunday, Sunday night. We are in Navarre Beach. So right when you get off the bridge to the right, there's the boat ramp here. And we are told by a friend of hers that on Sunday, she was scheduled to meet up with the father of her daughter and to get her daughter exchange custody. As any of you with children in that situation know how that works. They were supposed to meet here so she could get her daughter and was scheduled to go meet with her dad afterwards. Hours passed and she never showed up to her dad's house.

Her dad was concerned. Later received a text message saying that Cassie was having some sort of car and phone trouble. And then sometime later after that was when he had heard from the child's father saying that he thought she might be at the friend that I talked to's house, which that friend tells me is not true. Joining me, an all-star panel to make sense of what we know regarding where is Cassie Carley. First of all, Sam Porter, her longtime friend who is working very hard on finding her whereabouts. Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, author of Red Flags and hosted today with Dr. Wendy on KCBQ. Dr. Debbie Jaffe Ellis, psychologist joining us, professor, Columbia University and author.

Robert Frechette joining us, detective with Rochester PD from the Stratford County Family Justice Center. But first, straight out to Nicole Parton joining us, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. You know, I'm not clear on when Cassie and her daughter, Sailor, exactly go missing. Could you please reconstruct what we know of that night? Sure, Nancy. So what we know is that Cassie had been spotted, and we know her last whereabouts was around 7 p.m. Sunday evening. 7 p.m. Sunday evening. She's there at Navarre Beach. We know that she's... Well, wait a minute.

When you say there at Navarre Beach, she was out on the beach? She was at a shopping center? What? She was in a parking lot near a bar and grill, a little cafe there, which is the spot where she had arranged to meet her daughter's father so that they could exchange the child.

Kind of a public place. It's near a boat ramp. So she was spotted in the parking lot. Is that correct? That's correct. Did she have the daughter, Saylor, with her? Those reports are unclear. There is no confirmation that anyone saw the child at that point.

Cassie Catherine Carley last seen in Navarre Beach, Santa Rosa County, on Sunday evening. This according to what the local sheriff has to say. She was last seen almost four days now. Can you speak to whether that's concerning to keep going yet another day with no sign of her? Oh, yeah, it's very concerning. I mean, you know, and we take everything seriously. Missing persons cases, a lot of them, you know, we find the person, everything's fine. But usually you don't go four days without hearing from them

or them using a credit card or a cell phone or something and right as of now we have none of that so yeah we're concerned so you can confirm that she's had no cell phone or credit card activity since sunday that we're aware of okay yeah and that's why we have you know we didn't just assign a detective our entire major crimes unit is working this. So you've got 10 detectives. That's pretty much all they're doing right now is trying to locate Cassie. So, Nicole Parton, we know she's in a parking lot, but we don't know if the little girl, Saylor, is with her or not. That's correct.

So there is no confirmation that her daughter, Saylor, was with her at that point. There's no eyes that were laid on the child. So it's unclear if the daughter was there at that seven o'clock meeting. Now, this was on a Sunday night, correct? That's right. Sunday night, 7 p.m. To Robert Frechette joining us, Detective Rochester, PD, with the Trafford County Family Justice Center. Robert, again, thank you for being with us. Typically, a Sunday night, the crime rate goes down. Why is that?

There's a lot of factors that play into crime rates, correct? I mean, so, you know, from your experience as a prosecutor, you know, we'll have weekend days that are really busy and other days that are in the middle of the week that are also really busy and vice versa. So crime rates are contingent upon the agenda of the person committing the crime, right? And so depending on who was seeking to harm this lady, assuming that's what's happened, would depend on when they might look to engage in that behavior. We see crime rates start rising on Thursdays. They go up on Fridays. They peak

on Saturdays. Why? Think about it. People are not at work as much. They have the ability to drink and do drugs more so than they would during the week. They're not at work, so they're out on the roads more. They're out and about. And we also find crime rates going up in warm weather. Why? Because people are out and about. On Sunday nights, however, Sunday evenings, we find crime rates start going down a tiny bit. Why? Because people are getting ready for the next day at work. Wendy Patrick, it's been true from the get-go. Yeah, that's true. And you know, one of the other reasons crime rates go up is think about the potential victim pool that's available on weekends as opposed to during the week.

True, you also have those people that are, you know, they're not at work, they're out, maybe they're drinking, they're under the influence, they're vulnerable. So you see a lot of reasons why it would peak over the weekend. But on Sunday night, things begin to calm down for all of the reasons that make it more dangerous over the weekend. So it is a bit unusual to have something terrible happen on a Sunday night. I find it also interesting, Robert Fruchette joining me, detective from Rochester PD, who's certainly seen his share of crimes. Robert, if she had been taken in a parking lot, I mean, it has happened before and it will happen again. But that's a pretty open area for witnesses to observe what's happening. Absolutely. And that's why people do these exchanges in public places, because there are people around. Hope that there would be a witness that would have seen her or whomever she was meeting if it was for a custody exchange and had seen a sailor as well.

You know, another thing that's good about it, though, back to Nicole Parton, I want to find out what, if anything, you know about the particular parking lot. What was the what was the name of the shopping center? Do you know, Nicole? It's not a shopping center per se, but it's at the boat ramp there at Navarre Beach. So the boat ramp is there. A couple of restaurants are there. What's the name of the restaurant? It's the Juana Grill, and it's right by the boat dock. It's a popular little destination for boaters coming in and out to grab a bite to eat. And also, seven o'clock at night, the boats are starting to come in. They've been enjoying a day out on the water. 7 o'clock, we're getting dusky here in Florida. And so those boats are coming in.

So I would anticipate there's a lot happening in that parking lot. A lot of people starting their dinner and a lot of boaters pulling out of that boat ramp. So there's a lot of foot traffic and a lot of things happening there where she was last seen. I'm looking at a shot of Juana. It's spelled like Juan, the name, J-U-A-N-A. Juana Pagodas and Sailors Grill. Navarre's oldest family owned and operated a restaurant and bar. And it's right on the water.

You're right. And it's right on the water. You're right. And it's a series. It looks like little pagoda houses is what it looks like. And with that's roofs. And the selling point is that you sit out and look out at the water. It's right on the water. And you can see the marina with jet skis and boats there. The point I'm making is at seven o'clock at night. Jackie, could you look up for me if the sun has set? What time the sun set

on March 27? Everything matters. Why do I care about what time the sun set on March 27? Well, Wendy Patrick, you know, you're a prosecutor because I want to find out if any eyewitnesses could see anything. Now, this is a fairly big restaurant and grill. I imagine the parking lot would have to have surveillance cameras. So, Jackie, what time is the sunset? 704. 704 sunset. So it's getting dark.

It's getting dark, but still at that time in Florida, I think you'd be able to see fairly well. Wendy Patrick, this matters. Wendy, I'm sure you've tried cases as have I and Robert Pritchett. You know what we're talking about. I mean, this is actually codified, codified, written in the law, ways to attack an eyewitness that you bring on to trial. You look, did they wear glasses? Was their vision impaired? Were they in a spot that made such a view possible? For instance, I've gone to crime scenes and I've got an eyewitness

and I want to find out, could they really see what they saw? No. Where they're standing versus where the crime occurred, there'll be like a huge hedge or a building for Pete's sake. So you have to go to the scene

in order to put a case like this together. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Wendy Patrick and Robert Frechette, I'll start with you, Wendy. I want to find out, could anybody see at 7 o'clock at night on March 27 in Navarre, Florida, could they see in that parking lot what happened to this mother and daughter, Cassie Curley, and her little girl, Sailor? That's exactly right. One of the very first things you do is recreate the scene, and that's why we want to get out there as soon as possible.

The beauty of dates and times and sun rising and setting is the judge can take what's called judicial notice of that. In other words, he can tell the jury this is when it's set, and it's not a disputed fact. But that doesn't tell the whole story because you have to know what kind of obstructions might have been there. Was there a canopy? I've got another problem for you. Guess what? They've got a sand floor that's great for dancing with live music.

You know why I'm not happy about that? Robert Fruchette, I'm not happy because if somebody's sitting in there and live music is playing, they're not going to hear somebody scream out in the parking lot. They're not going to hear a four-year-old girl yell, Mommy, that's not going to happen, Frechette. That's right. I was expecting a little more than that's right. I'm talking about ear witnesses. Ear witnesses. They're important.

Okay, here's a great example. To Dr. Debbie Jaffe-Ellis, psychologist joining us from Columbia. Dr. Debbie, everyone will recall, if you're at all a legal eagle, if you haven't been living under a rock in a cave, that the timeline and the O.J. Simpson murder trial started when neighbors heard, as they described, their words, not mine, a plaintive wail of Nicole Brown's dog. And they had never heard it like that, much less at that time. And they heard it, their ears pricked up and didn't really think anything of it. That actually was used to start a timeline in many people's minds. So you hear somebody scream out in the parking lot. You go back and find out who

was there at Juan's Pagodas that night at seven o'clock by the receipts. And you say, did you hear anything? If they've got live music blaring, we're basically screwed. So ear witnesses and what people hear Dr. Debbie Jaffe-Ellis can be as important sometimes as what they see. Yes, what you say, Nancy, is very true, assuming if in this particular situation someone wailed or screamed out. But from what I gather, we don't know if that's the case. What if the mother, at the point that she moved away from the car, was appearing to do so willingly? What if she didn't scream? So, yes, it's true that would be great evidence if it happened,

but do you know if that happened? I don't. I don't know anything yet because nobody heard anything. But okay, you know, Frechette, I gave you the bad news about the live music. Here's the good news. It's Wednesday through Saturday. Okay, so maybe somebody did hear something. Here's another problem. They have apparently, I'm learning a lot from their website. They apparently have beach rentals and they have night lit volleyball courts that run March through November. So, more bad news. There are people out there playing volleyball.

The people in the restaurant are looking out at that and hearing that it started in March. She goes missing from the parking lot March 27. So we're back at square one yet again. Nicole Parton, do you have any idea? I mean, certainly they've got surveillance videos, right? The police are being tight-lipped about that. That was a question that was asked by several reporters, and no one knows the answer to that.

One would imagine, and one would imagine that there's surveillance down by that boat ramp, because we have wildlife officials, and we have people who are usually surveilling those boat ramps 24-7. Good point. Really, really good point, Nicole Parton. Remember, that's how, really, the truth came out about Scott Peterson. That idiot got caught at the marina. Security saw him coming in and out. He had to go through a parking entrance to get his boat into the marina. Remember he said he was playing golf and then somebody at the marina ID'd him. He went, oh, oh yeah, yeah, it wasn't golf. I was fishing. Now I remember and lo and behold, that's where Lacey and Connor's body turned up. Guys, there's another issue to be

examined. Let me go to you, Wendy Patrick, and then I'll back it up with Frechette and Dr. Debbie. You've got not only the disappearance of a mother, but her daughter. It's one thing to wrestle an unarmed woman into your car. It's another thing to wrestle two people into your car, one being a four-year-old little girl and the other the mother. That's a whole other can of worms, Wendy Patrick. Oh, absolutely. And it's also a whole other scene that would be memorable to witnesses.

And, you know, this is one of the reasons that child exchanges in public places, it's a double-edged sword. On the one hand, it's safer because there's lots of people around. On the other hand, if there's lots of people around and they're distracted, they're dancing, there's music, they may be less inclined to pay attention. But not when there's a child involved. All of our antennae go up when we see a struggle between not just a man and a woman, but there's a child involved as well. So that would almost increase the likelihood of there being more witnesses. You are so right. Robert Frechette, I don't know if you're a dad or not,

but ever since I gave birth to the twins, when I hear a child scream or cry or yell out, Mommy, it's like an electric jolt goes through my body. So what Wendy is saying is correct. When you hear a child scream, it's different from when you hear an adult raise their voice. That would have attracted a lot of attention had the kidnapping gone down in this parking lot for Shett. That's correct. And we, you know, we would listen for, you know, people to share stories about something that they heard or something along those lines. But this begs the question, are we talking about somebody who was initially going unwillingly or not? Was there

really a struggle? Was this someone that the two of them knew and trusted? And then something happened after that, no longer in the parking lot. So we're going to talk to, you know, was there an argument or was there something that sort of stood out about two cars showing up, something, a discussion perhaps going on, and then one car leaving and the other one remaining there? Or did somebody come back and get that other car if that was the case? So there's a lot of pieces that we want to try to pull together. A lot of wrinkles, a lot of wrinkles, Robert Frechette. Guys, take a listen to our cut to this is Olivia Iverson with WEAR-TV. I talked to Sam Porter. She's the woman who organized this search happening here this afternoon.

She's holding out hope they'll find Cassie safe. The reality of the situation and worst case scenario possibility and all indicators pointing to a worst case scenario ending. A few things to note here tonight. The sheriff's office did tell me that they are also searching for the child there. They say this is a multi-agency effort. They couldn't tell me which agencies, but the Florida Department of Law Enforcement did confirm that they are also assisting in this investigation. As far as the people here tonight, I'm told they are planning to have a prayer vigil right here. This is right by the Navarre Beach Water Tower at around 645, right when the sun goes down. How can you identify Cassie Carley? Take a listen to our cut D,

our friends at crimeonline.com. Cassie Carley is 37 years old, 5 feet 5 inches tall, and weighs 150 pounds. She has shoulder-length blonde hair and blue eyes. She also has distinctive tattoos. She has a tribal mark on her lower back and a matching tattoo with her sister. Raeann Carley tells Dateline that their father has a big tattoo of a lizard, so to honor him the sisters got lizard tattoos of their own on their feet. She says when they put their feet side by side the lizards form a heart. Inside the heart in her father's handwriting is L-U-A, which is short for Love You Always. You know, tattoos are significant, but these, not so much. I'll tell you why.

This girl is stunning. She is beautiful with a million-dollar smile, of course. I may be looking at something that's a glamour shot, but she's really a pretty girl. The tattoos, they're not going to help me much, and I'll tell you why. To you, Nicole Parton, I understand that one is on a lower back, so she'd have to have on a swimsuit or a midriff top to see that and turn her back to you, and the other one is on her foot. That's not really helping me. Right, that's correct. So both of those are kind of out of sight. You know, it's not something that would be visible, like you said,

unless you saw her barefooted or in a sandal or unless you saw the back of her. But it's not something that would be visible from the eye, March 27, 7 p.m.? As you see, you have to look at everything from the location. Were there lights in the parking lot? Had the sun set? Was there music playing? Were people out and about in that parking lot? Not a shopping center, more of a boat dock.

Take a listen to our friends at WEAR-TV. It was right here in this parking lot earlier this morning where the Santa Rosa County Sheriff's Office says their deputies found Cassie's car right behind me. But as of tonight, still no sign of Cassie. Some friends and community members have been here nearly all afternoon looking for her. You can see some of those people right there over my shoulder. Those friends say that Cassie was scheduled to meet here on Sunday night around 7 o'clock to exchange custody with the father of her daughter. That was set for 7 o'clock.

Cassie's dad, I'm told, was expecting her that night, but she never showed up. Friends say her dad received texts hours later from Cassie's phone saying she had phone and car trouble. I talked to Sam Porter. She's the woman who organized the search happening here this afternoon. She claims the child's father claimed Cassie went to Sam's house, which Sam tells me isn't true. So where did she go? What do we know about Cassie, the missing mom? What do we know about Sale or her four-year-old girl that also disappeared the very same night? Take a listen to our cut A, our friends from Crime Online. Sisters Cassie and Raeann Carley were born in Louisiana but spent the majority of their childhood in the Florida panhandle. Raeann tells Dateline that her sister is fun and outgoing and always laughing.

But most of all, Cassie Carley is a daddy's girl. There is a five-year age difference between the girls, but they are still close. Since their mother worked, Cassie, the older of the two, became a mother figure in the household, leading Rianne to tell Dateline that Cassie was born maternal. And when Cassie had her own child, she loved being a mother. REANNE TO TELL DATELINE THAT CASSIE WAS BORN MATERNAL. AND WHEN CASSIE HAD HER OWN CHILD, SHE LOVED BEING A MOTHER. Then we find out that the schedule was broken that night. And I find this very interesting. You know, we were talking earlier about routine, evidence, what people do as a matter of habit.

Take a listen to our friends from Crime Online. Raeann Carlisle says Cassie was living with her father while she was between jobs. Cassie Carley had been working at a paddleboard shop. Paddleboarding is a favorite hobby, but despite the passion, Carley had just started a new job as a lead server. Raeann tells Dateline that her sister texted her during her first shift, saying things were going well. Carly was also dealing with custody issue with Saylor's father.

The two shared custody with drop-offs happening every other weekend. The mother and father now live in different Florida cities, so to make the custody exchange reasonable, they would meet in the middle, at a Walmart in Destin. But on Sunday, March 27th, there was a last-minute change. The pair decided to meet around 7 p.m. at Navarre Beach, about a mile or so from where Cassie was living. Interesting that the location of the custody switch, the drop-off, was changed at the last minute.

We also know that the new spot was only a mile from where Carly was living. Now, we understand that night that she was to meet, her father fell asleep. He had been told she'd be home later. He woke up at 10 45. Cassie and Saylor were not at home. Why? The calls to her phone go straight to voicemail. He did get texts saying that she was having phone and car troubles. The next day, Carly's still not home, and dad calls police. Joining me right now is a very special guest. It's Sam Porter, a very dear friend of Cassie Carley. Sam, thank you for being with us. Thank you so much, Nancy, for having us on here. Your presence is greatly appreciated and highly valued among us that are out here on the ground searching for

Cassie. Sam, when did you first realize that Cassie is missing? I was first informed of Cassie's missing on Monday evening at approximately 6 30 p.m. I just arrived at home from from work and received a private message on Facebook asking if I was Cassie's friend Sam and I responded to the message and was notified by a mutual friend that Cassie had reported that Mark or Marcus that Marcus reported that he dropped Cassie at my home and she was inquiring if Cassie was with me. When she started to give me the details of the text message, my heart just absolutely sank and immediately thought that Marcus has done something with Cassie. Well, let me ask you this. What did the text message say that made your heart sing? The initial information that I received was that Cassie did not return home from the meeting to exchange custody with Marcus.

That her father received a suspicious message approximately three hours after the meeting time was supposed to take place. And he was unable to make contact with her or he was unable to make contact on her cell phone from that point forward. He began contacting Marcus to inquire of her whereabouts and exactly what happened. He didn't receive a response from Marcus until approximately mid-afternoon on Monday. And when he did, it was a very lengthy rant. He began rambling on and on about Cassie acting crazy. He mentioned again the car having mechanical issues and her cell phone not working. And then he stated that she was acting so crazy that he took her to my residence. And her father messaged back, you mean Sam?

And he said, yes. And then Cassie's father said, Sam no longer lives in Destin. And then he immediately changed his story to, well, she was acting so crazy that I was not going to expose Saylor to that behavior. And I quote unquote, put Cassie out in the middle of nowhere. Okay. I don't like it when people change their stories. Um, now it could be argued he was going to your house and then her behavior got so bizarre he dropped

her off out in the middle of nowhere that's a real stretch and in the midst of all of this we're still looking for four-year-old sailor sam let me understand something. When Cassie was going to meet there at Juan's Grill, was she picking up or dropping off Sailor with Dad? She was scheduled to pick up Sailor. and Marcus has 25%, meaning that he has legal custody of Zahler only every other week, Friday evening to Sunday evening. In their written court order, the scheduled legal location for them to exchange custody is in the Destin Walmart parking lot that is a very populated area and very well lit. And over the last several weeks since he was served with a court order to pay child support and arrears, he has started creating this scenario of, I'm going to be the nice guy. Cassie lived in Navarre, so to go to Destin was quite a stretch for her, especially in

tourist season traffic. 12 miles in tourist season is going to take you an hour to make that drive. So he baited her to come to this area under the guise that he was doing her a favor. There has been a long-standing custody problem between Cassie and the ex. Take a listen to Hour Cut, Crime Online. According to Cassie Carley, she filed for sole custody of Saylor in 2019. The court allowed Spanavello bimonthly visitation and ordered him to pay child support. Cassie claims Spanavello owes over $10,000 in back child support. She further claims when Florida was preparing to suspend his driver's license over the child support delinquency, he called CPS to report another claim against her. Due to this claim, Spanavello was allowed to pick up Saylor

for his regularly scheduled weekend visit. Cassie claims for the next two weeks she had no contact with her daughter, had no knowledge of where her daughter was, and she sought out help from several agencies to get Saylor back. It was this situation that led to her sister setting up a GoFundMe to help raise money to hire an attorney to take the custody fight back to court to prevent something like this from happening again. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. crime stories with nancy grace with me is sam porter cassie carley's dear friend um i'm trying to figure out exactly i know there's a custody problem brewing is it correct that he actually kept the baby for two full weeks and did not let her have contact? She's the one that has sole physical custody?

Absolutely, that's correct, Nancy. Not only did he keep her away, it appeared as though he was at that time attempting to flee the country to Brazil with Saylor. We were unable to locate Saylor. Cassie was in her own efforts sharing on social media. It seemed as though no one was taking her seriously. She filed multiple police reports. And what we came to learn is that at that time, that particular situation, he had taken Saylor to a location in Alabama. So it complicated the situation in efforts to, once we knew where she was, to be able to, for Cassie to be able to go and get her daughter.

So he actually crossed the state lines with the baby, which I'm sure is against custody, any and all custody agreements. He took the baby across state lines? Absolutely. Let me advise everyone that the bio dad of sailor Marcos Spanavello, a Brazilian national, is not named a suspect. Not named a suspect. Now, in the middle of all of this, Nicole Parton, the baby is found. Explain. That's right. So the police department released a statement confirming that they had a lead and they followed that lead and they, quote, went out and laid eyes on the child, put eyes on the child to make sure she was safe.

They wanted to verify and see her with their own eyes. They did not disclose where they saw her, but they did confirm that the child was safe and that they had laid eyes on her. Sam Porter, a very dear friend of missing mom Cassie Curley. So praise heaven, baby Sailor is alive and well. But her location should give us some clue as to where we should look for Cassie. Where was Saylor found? Absolutely. So, we initially were focusing our efforts in the location of where Cassie's car was found. Our search area has broadened now from Navarre into Panama City, Pensacola, and every highway and byway between here and Jefferson County, Alabama. So we know for certain we don't have an exact city nor address,

or that has not been disclosed to us. We confirm that that they were that her will her welfare has been checked as far as being using the word safe I would not use that term because Marcus still maintaining legal custody can go and at free will and not be able to be detained by police at this point take possession of Saylor again and run with her again well I mean he's done it before absolutely he's left and according to you he's taken her before to Alabama. Do you know where in Alabama he had her before, the little baby? It was in the, we know the Proxman area where he was, and it's all in the Jefferson County, Alabama. Guys, it sounds like a big distance, but actually,

where we're talking about, Navarre Beach, Santa Rosa County, Pensacola, Destin, Fort Walton, that is the panhandle. It's one of the most beautiful sugar beaches in the world. When we say he took the baby to Alabama, Alabama is also on the panhandle. The panhandle on the interior of Florida curves around. So when you say he left Florida and went to Alabama, it may not be that far. What's the county seat? Birmingham. Okay. So that is further. Birmingham from Santa Rosa County is much further than something, for instance, like Op or Enterprise or Hey Cody. So that is a much further drive. Nicole Parton, do you have any information about how the baby was found?

Did you say a tip? The police department says that they were given, through the entire investigation, that they were led to believe that the child was not in danger. They did not disclose what led them to believe that. But they say that's the track they followed. They went out for themselves to lay eyes on the child, and they did, and they made sure she was safe. That's the police department's quote. Sam Porter, do you know that baby Sailor is not with Cassie's

dad? I can confirm that, yes. Sailor is not currently in Florida with family nor friends. Are you saying she's in Alabama? Saylor is still in Alabama and we are working very closely with our local sheriff's department and a private attorney to file all the necessary paperwork to obtain a court order to get her back. That process is now three days in the work. We started that process immediately on Monday. And we are now, the delay in that is we are dealing with multiple jurisdictions and a slow court process. While our natural minds can't grasp that and it's frustrating, we are taking all the legal steps to do this correctly. If you know or think you know anything about the whereabouts about this gorgeous young mom, Cassie Carley. Tip line is 850-437-STOP.

850-437-7867. Or you can text star, star tips, T-I-P-S. To Dr. Debbie Jaffe Ellis, psychologist, professor, Columbia University, and author, Dr. Debbie, I'm very concerned, and I'll tell you why. I'm concerned because taking a child away from the mother who has primary custody, physical custody, and keeping the child away for two weeks that is unauthorized is tortuous and cruel to the mother. And it makes me concerned. What else this dad might do to the mother? Yeah, you're right to be concerned. I mean, it's highly likely that he's feeling entitled. He may be feeling enraged and, you know, intense anger-like. That can lead to impulsive, irrational behavior. If Kathy has been dumped, who knows where,

we have to hope that she has enough food, water, warmth to sustain her. But, yeah, I trust that the father will be thoroughly questioned and watched because there is potential for him to act out in a more irrational, rageful way. You know, again, no one has been named as a suspect in the disappearance of young mom Cassie Curley. To Robert Frischek joining us, custody issues are so volatile. Agree or disagree? Oh, I agree 100%. They are some of the biggest catalysts for some bad behavior,

especially when a decision is made that's not in the abuser's best interest in their mind, then perhaps their agenda changes and their need for controlling that narrative and controlling that situation goes to a dangerous level. You know, Robert Frechette, one of my very best girlfriends is a defense lawyer. She's a dope lawyer. She says she would rather represent a drug lord than get in the middle of a divorce where custody is at issue because one or the other party will totally drive by your house in the middle of the night and take a shot at the lawyer. Like the lawyer's got something to do with keeping the children away from the parents. I mean, it is a highly volatile issue. We often hear of cops going to break up a domestic or a custody problem,

getting shot, a completely third party. They've never met. Get shot. It's a very, very incendiary issue. This brings to mind another case that we covered out of Florida. She's often been called the people's court mom. Take a listen to our friend Matt Gutman with ABC News, Our Cut 5. Parker was last seen around 2 p.m. Thursday, dropping her kids off at Smith's home. At about 4 p.m., her brother received a short text from her, but she never showed up for her 6 p.m. bartending shift. Her iPhone last pinged at a cell phone tower at 8 p.m., then total silence. At this point, her 11-year-old calls his grandmother, Yvonne Stewart, to ask, where's mom?

And her son called and said, is mom at the salon? We're like, no, honey. She went to drop off the babies. She should be home. She should be taking a nap. She goes, well, I haven't seen her since I got home from school. On Friday, police found her black Hummer near an Orlando mall she rarely visited. And on Sunday, they searched her ex-fiance's home at a nearby field.

Has she ever disappeared before? Never. Has she ever not called or taken a few hours just to be by herself? No. Parker's mother, Yvonne Stewart, has been desperately searching for her daughter for four days now. In that case, Michelle Parker has never been found. She was last known to be dropping off her children with the ex. In that case, there has been no progress. To Sam Porter, a very dear friend of Cassie Carley's, Cassie's car was found right there at the pickup spot?

No, that is not correct. The original spot was at Juana's Patagonia's Grill. It's a smaller parking area, very well lit. We have confirmation from citizens and witnesses that Marcus Sanabello parked in the rear parking lot which has boat access and no lighting he actually backed his trailer 30-foot trailer so the doors of that trailer were facing the sand dunes and concealed. When Cassie arrived, we have witnesses that report and confirm that Cassie parked facing his vehicle, and that area is completely dark. It is nearly impossible to see much more than shapes and shadows. So her car then was found there at once? It was found in the rear parking lot.

So it's actually probably a little less than a quarter mile from the actual restaurant. That's a very unusual spot for a pickup and drop-off. Again, the tip line is 850-437-STOP. 850-437-7867. Please help us find Cassie Marley. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.