Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Gorgeous Podcaster, Husband Murdered by Stalker

Episode Date: March 15, 2023

A Texas man is believed to have traveled to Washington, where he allegedly stalked a woman before killing her and her husband in a double-murder suicide. Ramin Khodakaramrezaei, 38, reportedly broke into Zohreh and Mohammed Sadeghi’s home in Redmond and shot the couple. Zohreh’s mother escaped the home and called 911 after the suspect allegedly broke into the residence through a window. Cops who responded to the home reportedly found the Sadeghis fatally shot and Khodakaramrezaei dead from a self-inflicted gunshot wound. Redmond police said Zohreh, 33, a podcaster, had filed a no-contact order against Khodakaramrezaei. Zohreh had been friends with Khodakaramrezaei, a listener, but she distanced herself after he bombarded her with messages.    Joining Nancy Grace today: Matthew Mangino - Attorney, Former District Attorney (Lawrence County, PA); Author: "The Executioner's Toll: The Crimes, Arrests, Trials, Appeals, Last Meals, Final Words and Executions of 46 Persons in the United States", Twitter: @MatthewTMangino Caryn Stark - Psychologist- Trauma and Crime Expert; Twitter: @carnpsych Paul Szych - Former Police Commander (Albuquerque, NM), APD Domestic Violence and Stalking Unit; Author: "Stop Him From KillingThem;" Twitter: @WorkplaceThreat   Dr. Jeffrey Jentzen - Professor of Forensic Pathology and Director of Autopsy and Forensic Services at the University of Michigan Medical School; Former Medical Examiner in Milwaukee County, Wisconsin Lee Neubecker - CISSP- President of Enigma Forensics, Inc.,  Isabel Vincent - Investigative Reporter for the New York Post; Twitter: @isareport; Author: “Overture of Hope: Two Sisters' Daring Plan That Saved Opera's Jewish Stars from the Third Reich”  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A wildly popular and beautiful Seattle podcaster and her ex-Google engineer husband murdered at their $1.6 million home. But why? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thanks for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111.

First of all, take a listen to our friends at ABC. Police say this man, 38-year-old Ramin Hoda Karam Rezaei, stalked, shot and killed podcaster Zori Sadeghi and her husband. They have the active hostage situation. The shooter is not detained. A neighbor says their security camera caught the commotion overnight. There was blood curdling to here. Investigators say Hoda Karam Rezae listened to Sadeghi's live podcast for people who speak Farsi looking for jobs in the tech industry and

befriended her through a chat app. They communicated but things quickly escalated. In the first homicide in the city of Redmond since 2021, a crazed stalker obsessed with a woman killed her and her husband before turning the gun on himself this is the absolute worst outcome you know for a stalking case police chief Darrell Lowe says this man 38 year old Ramin from Texas is the suspect he came to the neighborhood and this red truck Tuesday overnight the suspect broke into the home VA bedroom, that bedroom being the mother's. She did encounter the suspect. She was aware of what was occurring, and she knew or realized that she needed to get out and get help. Police say the mother of the wife ran for her life to a neighbor's house to call 911.

When officers arrived, the mother and neighbor led them to the home. As officers approached the front of the home, a male later identified as the husband of the victim was seen in a doorway. How did this whole thing unfold? In a happy marriage and a wonderful podcast, as it were, how did this guy get to them with me, an all-star panel, to make sense of what we know right now? But first, I'm going to go to Isabel Vincent, investigative all-star panel, to make sense of what we know right now. But first, I'm going to go to Isabel Vincent, investigative reporter for the New York Post and author of Overture of Hope, Two Sisters' Daring Plan That Saved Opera's Jewish Stars from the Third Reich. Okay, wow to that. You can find her at IsabelVincent.com.

Isabel, thank you so much for being with us. Now, I understand that the victim, this gorgeous young woman, is Zuri, somehow met the killer in a podcast. I've also heard it described as a chat room. Which one was it? Do you know, Isabel? Well, from everything that I could see, it was a chat room. She met him. They developed a kind of online friendship that started to turn very dark when he kept calling her. He started to call her husband. And we're talking like at one point he called her, the suspect called her a hundred times a day. And, you know, one of the things I want to stress is that this woman, Tadehi, she had just had back surgery and she was practically immobile. So from November of 2022, we see that she contacted the police because she started to get really

concerned about this. And then at, you know, at one point, the trucker shows up at her home with some flowers. Oh, my goodness. You know, hold on, Isabel. Guys, you're hearing the voice of Isabel Vincent. I'm sure you know her well. Investigative reporter for The New York Post and author of an incredible book. With me, a renowned psychologist out of Manhattan, Karen Stark, an expert in this field. You can find her at karenstark.com.

That's Karen with a C. Karen, how is it that people become attached seemingly over the Internet? She's a well-known podcaster, but they're in a chat room. It's where they first met. How does that intimacy bond build up, at least on the part of one of them? Well, it's kind of delusional, Nancy. The one person, the stalking person, the one on the internet, begins to imagine that there's more to the relationship than is actually happening.

So suppose you and I are close friends, right? And we're talking to each other. And then all of a sudden I decide that I'm your best friend. You can't be without me. I've got to be with you all the time. And it's a real attempt to control and be dependent on the other person. Well, we're hearing Isabel Vincent describe how they meet in a chat room and he identifies this podcaster and he becomes obsessed with her. With every case, when you're

trying to establish what happened, you first look at your victim. Who is your victim? Is your victim a prostitute? Is that how she met the killer? Is your victim an addict? Is the killer her supplier? Is your victim a dope dealer? Is she supplying dope? Is your victim involved in any nefarious activity? You look at that first, and believe me, this woman was examined every which way. Take a listen to our friend Dave Mack at CrimeOnline.com.

Zohra Sadeghi and her husband, Mohamed Nasseri, were active on social media. They posted about their love of science fiction. They posted about progressive politics and human rights in Iran. They posted about their love of technology. Both Sadeghi and Nasseri were software engineers. Nasseri blogged about his efforts to get a job at Google. In 2017, he did, and he worked there for five years before going to Amazon. Sadeghi worked at Promontory Mortgage Path until it closed doors late last year.

While Sadeghi has been looking for a new job, she was also a podcaster of sorts, curating a chat room on the App Clubhouse for Farsi-speaking individuals who, like Sadeghi, were trying to find jobs in the tech world. To say the couple was successful would be accurate. Married since 2011, they bought a $1.6 million home in Redmond, Washington, famous for being the site of Microsoft's headquarters. You know, when it's put like that, Isabel Vincent, joining us from the New York Post. They sound like a perfect couple. I mean, I know, believe me, I know Isabel from trying so many homicides. When you look at people on the outside, it looks like a Hallmark movie, but it's not always that way. I mean, look at her. She

looks like a model. The beautiful brown eyes, the perfect brows, her hair's back in a, as my daughter calls it, a messy bun. Perfect teeth. I mean, she's gorgeous. The husband, also handsome. And these beautiful features in front of them. You know who it's reminding me of, Isabel? It's reminding me of Scott Peterson. Because I was at the trial every day, and many people, Isabel, not me, not many people,

thought Scott Peterson is so handsome. He's got a college degree. He's got this beautiful, perfect smile. He's a golf phenom. He's got this beautiful wife and home. Okay, I'll admit, I looked in the windows of the home. It looked like a dollhouse, Isabel. It was beautifully decorated.

Lacey Peterson had done this beautiful job on it. They're expecting their first child, a baby boy, loving in-laws and parents. I mean, it was perfect, right? And then pops up the picture of Amber Fry, who I've spoken to many times, a lovely young woman, beautiful mistress. She had no idea he was married. So what I'm saying is they look great and they have this awesome up and coming career happening to them and a one point six million dollar home. I mean, you think what could go wrong?

Am I missing something, Isabel? Is there something dark or nefarious going on in their lives that we don't know about? No, I think they were the successful couple. I mean, looking back at public records, they bought their they bought their home in April of 2021. The home's beautiful. It has two fireplaces. It has a bar, a beautiful deck, several bedrooms in a in a very posh neighborhood. And they it looks like they have been in the United States since about 2015. That's the earliest record. Right there, Isabel.

I know you're an incredible investigative reporter and now author, but I need to shrink quickly. Karen Stark, do you remember, I don't know if it's still on the air, maybe in reruns somewhere, Jackie, maybe you or Sidney know, the Martha Stewart show, a program that would come on in the afternoons. It had to be a really long time ago because I would watch it when I was trying cases. And this is why Karen Stark, she had some kind of, oh, was it Turkey Hill or Turkey Farm or something like that where she had a, please look it up. I need to remember. Anyway, it was beautiful and she's perfect. And she would make all these, these you know special dishes and decorating tips and I would be sitting there surrounded by homicide trial files and for 30 minutes I would

just be lost in this world okay same thing happens when I go on Zillow okay I look at all these times I go wow that'd be a great backyard for the twins or this or that or I could just see us all gathered around this table or that that den looks so great with the the huge screen tv do you hear Isabel Vincent describing their home I do yeah and I'm thinking wow that sounds great and you know it's just shattered by this crazy person and I'm saying crazy in the lay sense, not the legal sense, that comes and ruins their life. Did you hear what she said? Nothing nefarious.

They're just minding their business. Isabel Vincent actually just scared me because it's like no matter what you do right, you can still be a victim. Oh, wait. I think I hear someone jumping in. It's got to be either Dr. Jensen, Lee Neubecker, Paul Zyke, or Matthew Mangino. Who is it? I'm betting on Mangino. Well, it wasn't me, Nancy, but I would like to say that, you know, oftentimes when we look at victims, we look for a connection somehow, you know, something that they did that may have put them in a situation where they were in peril.

But it appears in this case that that there is nothing that these this young couple did to put themselves in peril. I disagree. I disagree. This is Lee Newbecker. Jump in. Guys, with me is Lee Newubecker, president of Enigma Forensics. That sounds impressive. I can't really tell what that means, but I like Enigma, and I like forensics. He's at enigmaforensics.com. Lee, go ahead. Well, if you're going to be online, once you put your personal cell phone number out there,

you open yourself to mass surveillance they called me well just let me finish here in the chat rooms people commonly share things you can find if you have your personal phone number out online you can quickly locate where someone lives nancy your assistant that i spoke, I showed her a picture of her home. I showed her a limited amount of how you can be stalked. Whoa, wait a minute. Wait, wait, wait. Who are we talking about? Rachel. Our booker? Okay, perv. Quit looking Rachel up online. Right there. I was demonstrating to her that she should get a burner phone or a Google phone number to act as a buffer. Hey, question to you, Lee Neubecker.

Lee, you're absolutely right. I assume you've read Don't Be a Victim by myself, which talks about online dating and what you should and should not do. Same goes for everybody. So question to you, and I want you to answer this once and for all. Can an address be tracked through a cell phone? Yes. Yes. A lot of people think it's got to be a landline.

That's absolutely not true. You're absolutely right. You can quickly see on Facebook all your friends and family, and people can blackmail and extort you. So you've really got to be careful with your number. That's how I find people. Yes, it is. I tend to agree. You know, the reality is the algorithm that are out there today are always looking to connect data points. They take a phone number with an address and they put it together. killing women that they're threatening to kill every single time that suspect had information that the victim did not think that they had. And as a matter of fact, swore that they didn't have

access to, but they did. Right. That's how journalists track people all the time is looking through the friends. No, that's how I do it. Looking through friends and comments on Facebook and all social media. I mean, people don't think that you can actually trace a whole life through that. And I end up doing that every day. Guys, you're hearing the voice of investigative reporter for the New York Post, Isabel Vincent, and she's absolutely right. I want to get back to who are the victims in this case. Take another listen to Dave Mack from CrimeOnline.com. Sadeghi's chat room on Clubhouse

opened her life to many new contacts. One of those was trucker Ramin Khodaram Razahi. He began taking part in the online chat room in late 2021. The trucker started emailing Sadeghi and messaging her to talk about the podcast. It wasn't long until the new friendship took a bad turn. Khodaram Razahi escalated his contact to the point where Sadeghi became uncomfortable with the content of the messages and how often. Once, he reportedly called Sadeghi over 100 times in a single day. Sadeghi tried to cut off contact.

She blocked him on WhatsApp, Telegram, Instagram, and on her phone calls application, but he began to start contacting Nazari. There were also reports that he would show up at the couple's home unannounced with gifts. Sadeghi filed for a restraining order. Karen Stark, psychologist, joining us out of Manhattan. Karen, when you, for instance, like she did, blocked him on Insta, Facebook, Twitter, does that enrage the person or does that help?

Well, I mean, you want to do it, but it does enrage the person because he already is feeling rejected. He decided that he had a close relationship with her. And so in their friendship, all of a sudden she's rejecting him. And look at this, Nancy. He's able to get in touch with her husband, who is making an attempt to be kind to this guy and explain that she's allowed to reject him, but he's turned this into he's in love with her and she does not want him. And what did he do wrong?

Hey, let me go to Isabel Vincent. What is Clubhouse? What is that? Clubhouse, it's like an online chat room where people get together and exchange, you know, all sorts of information. So this is a form of a chat room. And can I tell you something? I'm all for chat rooms. I was in a chat room when I had the twins and I was trying to find out tips for how to feed them, how to get them on the same sleeping schedule. It was very, very helpful. I made some actually lifelong friends in there. But it's very Matthew Mangino, former prosecutor and author of The Executioner's Toll.

Listen to this. The crimes, arrests, trials, appeals, and last meals, and final words of 46 people in the U.S. I read it just because I wanted to find out about the last meals. That said, I didn't listen to the last words, Mangino, because I knew they were probably all lies anyway, like I didn't do it, that kind of thing. Mangino, these chat rooms, while I have been in chat rooms anonymously before, I have had so many cases linked back to chat rooms. Jackie, can we even count, just off the top of our heads, how many people were identified and stalked through chat rooms? Oh, my gosh, no. Especially young girls, because those are the ones we typically cover because they're so easy to victimize.

But Matthew, chat rooms, they're like the devil's spawn. Well, right. I mean, there's there's no question that there are predators in chat. People who are trying to make some connection with people because they have some, you know, criminal intent. They have some idea that they want to take advantage of, whether it's young people or vulnerable people or just generally people who are on the Internet. But, you know, the thing that concerns me is certainly you need to be careful. But, you know, just because someone has a digital footprint, just because somebody has their name out there and is in a chat room overseeing some conversation or has a podcast in which they express certain views, necessarily, you know, should be fearful that they're going, that there's some predator out there who's going to come after them or that they shouldn't have that digital footprint. They shouldn't be involved, you know, on the internet because they could become a victim.

But you know what? You know what, Matthew Mangino, you are reminding me of something my husband does. And now my son's doing it. I immediately called him on it. For instance, I'll say, could you speed up? You're driving like a grandma. Okay. You're going 19 miles an hour. I can see that on my ways. Speed up. And he goes, well, do you want me to run those people down in the crosswalk? I'm like, isn't there a happy medium? Can you go faster than 19 miles an hour and not run over the people in this crosswalk. So Paul Zeit with me, former police commander, Albuquerque, star of their domestic violence and stalking unit, and author of Stop Him From Killing Them. You can find him at StopHimFromKillingThem.com.

Paul Zeit, there's got to be a happy medium when you're in a chat room. You know, there, there is. And the thing I have to disagree with Matthew is that, you know, you have to realize what society is and who's out there. Yeah. I heard him say that Paul's like, you shouldn't be afraid of everybody in the chat room. Why not go ahead. I'm telling you right now that, um, you know, what what's happened with the Internet and social media and you name it is connected everyone to everyone. And not everyone is of sound mind. Not everyone, you know, has even common sense. And in this case, the obsession, the unbelievable, relenting obsession And some of the statements that were made directly to the husband

were extreme red flags. And you got to be ready for that if you're going to put yourself out there. I want to go to Lee Neubecker, President, Enigma Forensics. Lee, as all of my coworkers, friends, and family know, after one phone call, on the second call, I'm like, what did you not tell me the first time? What? Don't look at me like that, Jackie. Because by the second phone call, I'm like, what? Because I assume there's. But this woman's getting hundreds and hundreds, a barrage of calls and emails and texts every day.

Amazing. Now, I was looking for a little more from you, like how to not let that happen. Yes. Well, certainly, like I recommended, all your staff, they should be using buffer phone numbers when they're calling prospective guests on the phone. Oh, and you know what? I'm glad you said that. Buffer phone. There's actually an app, is there not, Lee Neubecker, where you can keep your same phone. You don't have to run out and get a burner phone. But you can have another phone number on your phone and use that for people you don't want to have your phone number and your regular phone number for everybody else.

Isn't that true? Yeah. Yeah, there's an app called Burner that's available on both the iPhone and the Android phone platform. That's the name of the app, Burner? Yep. And it's a subscription a year, but I'm sure you'll want to pay for that $20 or so for the app for your staff just to protect them. Because that number, when you look it up, the Burner number is I can't find anything off the Burner phone. But once you use your real cell phone, then people can surveil you. And you don't want people knowing who your kids are.

And, I mean, Nancy, you're a high profile person. If someone wants to stalk you, they're going to stalk your family. But, you know, your family has to be careful, too, with their online footprint. You know, using pseudonames for Facebook. You know, if you're going to use your real cell phone number on Facebook, just know that if anyone gets that number, they can quickly, they can see more data about you because Facebook assumes that they're trusted if they have your phone number in their contact list. Yeah. And that's what Isabel Vincent was just telling us, author and investigative reporter, New York Post. That's how she finds people when they don't want to be found, how she

finds out about them. Dr. Jeffrey Jensen, joining me, professor of forensic pathology, director of autopsy and forensic services, University of Forensic Pathology, Director of Autopsy and Forensic Services, University of Michigan Medical School, and former medical examiner, Milwaukee County, Wisconsin. Dr. Jensen, let's bring it all home. We're talking about meeting people in chat rooms and hiding your phone numbers. How did these two victims die? die. Well, it sounds like it was gunshot wounds that were inflicted. Even it sounds like the husband was seen in front of the house. And I guess my question is, where is law enforcement during this period of time where this poor woman's being stalked. I can answer that, Dr. Jeffrey Jensen. Remind me to circle back to Jensen on the COD cause of death and what they endured.

Let's answer Dr. Jeffrey Jensen's very astute question. Take a listen now to Tanya Whitworth, GMA. Police say that Ramin Khodaramrazahi met Zori Sadeghi under false pretenses on the popular streaming forum Clubhouse. Sadeghi initially befriending the suspect, thinking he was looking for a tech job, even meeting him in person. But eventually, he became fixated. His actions and activity escalated such that the victim became concerned for her safety numerous times throughout 2022. By December, she reported him to police and earlier this month, she applied for a protection order. Oh my goodness. Thinking she was met him for lunch, to lunch or coffee, to talk to him at his request about finding a job in the tech world. Now take a listen to our friends at KIRO7.

The suspect had been stalking Zoray for more than a year. So as I understand it, in one of the reports, she reported over 100 contacts in a single day. Zohreh is a software engineer who ran a live podcast style chat account on the platform clubhouse. Police say that's where the suspect, who is from Texas, met her. It developed into a stalking situation that rapidly escalated. The couple got a protection order against the suspect, 38-year-old Ramin Khoda Karam Rezari. Court documents show pages and pages of instances of the suspect contacting Zohreh and her family and friends, even coming to their home. There were instances where the

individual did show up at the location previously bearing gifts. How far did he have to travel to Isabel Vincent, investigative reporter, New York Post and author? How far did he have to travel to Isabel Vincent, investigative reporter, New York Post and author? How far did he have to travel to get to her? Well, he was living in Houston. And so so quite far. And one of the things that hasn't been mentioned is that that order of protection was not served on him because the police said that, well, he's a trucker. It's hard to pin him down. So that was one of the problems in this case. And when you get a protective order, PO, TPO, in one state, here they are in Redmond, and he is in Texas.

You have to get cooperation of Texas authorities or wherever the suspect is living. And for them, unless they know any better, it's not a priority. This is Lee, and it's total BS that they can't find a trucker. They all have Qualcomm trackers. All law enforcement has to do is go to their employer and say, where is it? Period. Exactly. It's just that simple.

But from state to state, for instance, Redmond needed to communicate to Houston how important this was. And then they needed help because, hey, look, cops are trying to track down murderers and rapists and child molesters and armed robberies. And they get a notice, hey, here's a TPO. Find the guy and serve him. That's like way out on the list. Who's jumping in? Go ahead. Isabel.

Go ahead, Isabel. One thing, also, his background. I mean, I did a quick background check of him. And his former wife, a woman named Neda Mizbahi, she sued him for divorce in January of 2018. There were children involved. Gee, I wonder why. And there were allegations of, you know, domestic abuse. So here's like a profile that, you know, maybe the police didn't take seriously.

I don't know. Hey, Karen Stark, you know who this is reminding me of? I know you're going to remember this woman lisa noak the astronaut the female astronaut yes so she has an affair with her love object who actually had get later gets a girlfriend she travels all the way across the country wearing adult diapers so she doesn't have to slow down. Her name is forever linked with adult diapers. That's true. So she can attack the girlfriend.

Like her love object is going to go, oh, well, she's dead. Now I'll be with you. It didn't work out that way at all. But someone so obsessed, they're willing to drive thousands of miles to get to you. Go ahead, Karen Stark. Well, it's not logical, Nancy, because they're not thinking the way that we would be. They're actually believing that there's more happening, that there's more closeness and intimacy than actually exists. And unfortunately, in this case, no one took it seriously enough.

Well, wait a minute. They did go to court to get that protection order and that takes some doing. Yet then it wasn't delivered. Guys, listen to Didi Sun. The victim shares her fears, saying messages to me have been the cause of anxiety and insomnia for me. They include him crying and begging for me to pick up, him threatening to burn himself and the tree in front of my house. She also says Mr. Kota Karam has bursts of anger and is completely delusional. These delusions make me fear for my life and the lives of my loved ones. And there's more. Listen to GMA. The order detailing a pattern of disturbing behavior, including calling Sadeghi a hundred times in a single day, crying

and begging to speak to her, showing up unannounced at a convention she attended in Colorado, even threatening to burn himself and the tree in front of Sadeghi's house. The software developer calling the alleged stalker delusional, writing, he won't let me go. And the only thing that will make all of this stop is if he killed himself or died. Now, our friend Frank Thompson describes voicemails more than 10 times a week, sending gifts and flowers to her home, even saying he hired a jazz band to play outside her house for two hours, but then called it off. The documents say the suspect would also leave her husband 20 messages a day. He even found her friend's addresses and phone numbers without their permission. You know what? Everybody on this panel is correct. This was of the highest priority, but according to authorities, they couldn't, quote, pin him down. Take a listen to Fox 13.

Chief Lowe says it was challenging serving the order to Ramin because he was a long-haul truck driver, always traveling the country for work. It was difficult to, I'll say, pin him down to a location. It wasn't as though he was local and we had a local address to where we could either do surveillance or find him, serve the protective order, et cetera. He was in a different state, traveled across the country as part of his employment, so that was the biggest challenge. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

Chief Lowe says it was challenging serving the order to Ramin because he was a long-haul truck driver, always traveling the country for work. It was difficult to, I'll say, pin him down to a location. It wasn't as though he was local and we had a local address to where we could either do surveillance or find him, serve the people, etc. He was in a different state, traveled across the country as part of his employment. So that was the biggest challenge. I believe I heard someone say BS, which I agree was that. Yeah, this is Lee Neubecker from Enigma Forensics. And I want to comment on something.

We live in one of the most surveilled environments ever. You boot your laptop, it takes a picture of your face. It does vector facial recognition. There's ability out there. The NSA can find it. Why aren't we using the means here? If we're going to be surveilled, let's at least stop the crime. Is this Paul or Matthew?

It's Paul. Go ahead. So this is why I wrote the book. You know, law enforcement is reactionary at its very core. You call, we come, we fix, we leave. The reality is stalking offenders, they fit into a category of very violent individuals that we don't understand. One, this happened over a full year. Two, it started consensually. Three, it started to ratchet into an area of obsession, focused aggression and threats to

kill. Now, he threatened to kill himself first. And so that's the only way it would stop when you start hearing threats to kill. And it's in and around stalking cases. There's been many studies that say 90 percent of the time when a woman is murdered, it's the man who's stalking her. And I wrote the book to help cops, prosecutors, judges, and everyone understand these people mean what they say. Dr. Jeffrey Jensen with me, autopsy and forensic expert. Dr. Jensen, I know that you have conducted many, many thousands of autopsies. And typically, homicide victims are women, minorities, and children. Many of the women, I would say the vast majority of women, are killed by someone already in their lives. It's not like an unknown attacker ambushes them on the sidewalk.

Yes, that does happen. The typical domestic killing is the person close to the individual. Many times there's what I would describe as overkill, some demonstration of facial and head trauma that the individual is actually trying to destroy the image. I guess that being said, with all the threats, what kind of actions did this family take to protect themselves? Well, another great question by Dr. Jeffrey Jensen. Take a listen to our cut 10, K-I-R-O. The police chief says they were trying to track down the suspect to serve an arrest warrant and that protection order today this vehicle was towed from the neighborhood

police believe it's what the suspect was driving last this is the absolute worst outcome the suspect was a trucker and police say that made it difficult to pinpoint his location the chief says the detectives had been working with the couple to tighten security at this home, like doing things like adding cameras and said that they did everything right trying to protect themselves. And more from Kyra. Listen. That suspect, we are told, broke into the couple's home through a bedroom window. You can see this is still a very active scene. Crime scene tape as well as police still here.

That is the home we are talking about. I'm told the victim's mom managed to escape to a neighbor's house to call 911, but police believe the couple was shot by that suspect. This is every victim, every detective, every police chief's worst nightmare. The murder victims are Redmond residents, 33-year-old Zohreh Sadeghi, and her husband, 35-year-old Mohamed Milad Nassari. It's shocking. It just seems unreal that something like this could happen in our neighborhood. Matthew Mangino with me, former felony prosecutor, now author.

Matthew Mangino, it seems to me the couple did everything right. Well, they did what they needed to do, and that was to seek a protective order. But, you know, Nancy, there's nothing magical about a protective order. You know, certainly it gives the authorities some leverage if this suspect would come around their home. But if you're if you're a crazed, obsessed individual, you're going to defy that protective order, whether you know it's there or you don't. And I'm really concerned that was there enough done in terms of law enforcement getting an arrest warrant, getting that warrant out where authorities in other states, whether it's Texas where he resided or other places, are looking for him as someone who's been charged with a crime. A protective order is a civil order.

Certainly it's of great concern, but it doesn't have the same effect necessarily on law enforcement as an active warrant for somebody's arrest. Well, I'm curious why he wasn't charged with stalking, the felony of stalking. Isabel Vincent joining me from the New York Post, and you can read her book, Overture of Hope. Isabel, I'm curious why he wasn't charged with the felony of stalking. With a grand jury, that takes about literally five minutes, and then there would have been a warrant for his arrest. And we know what vehicle he's driving. You know, I can't answer that.

But, you know, if you read her, you know, if you read some of the things today he said, and again, I stress that she's much more of a vulnerable victim here because she's recovering from back surgery. She can barely move. And she says at one point, I haven't been able to open the curtains in my bedroom out of fear of him being outside watching me. I mean, how much more do you need than that? You know, for the for the police to take more action. We should have been pinging that phone, Nancy, and knowing where he is from the pings on his cell phone. In addition to that, something you see systemically throughout the

nation, we're not doing surveillance like we need to be. If you're not in front of that house as that red truck pulls up to do what he's going to do, you're out of the game. And surveillance on the home would certainly have had the best opportunity to stop this individual. And the pain would give you an idea when he was starting to close distance. We didn't do it. You know, I read that quote, he threatened to end her marriage. Isabel Vincent, I assume that is the suspect threatened to end the victim's marriage. Yes. And he actually, he he said to her, you know, I'm you know, my other marriage ended because of domestic abuse. I'm a violent person. Like he told her all of these things. And, you know, again, where was the where was the alarm on the part of the authorities?

And maybe one one of the other things they could have done is hired private security. I don't know. I'm just putting it out there. Dr. Jeffrey Jensen, what did these victims experience as they died? You've heard Isabel describing the female victim, Zori's back surgery. She could hardly even move when she was murdered. Well, I would imagine there was just a feeling of total surrender, panic, and just an impending horror of their impending deaths. And, you know, without personal protection or some other knowledge that there was help on the way, they would have just had a total feeling of loss and the inability to protect themselves. The thought that this could have been stopped if a formal stalking felony had been lodged against him and then he would have been out on a warrant, not a TPO, temporary protective order.

Coulda, woulda, shoulda. There's nothing we can do now. The victims are dead. He's dead. He took his own life. So there will be no justice. All we can do is think about how we can protect other people from this happening to them. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.