Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Gorgeous Texas Bartender, 21, VANISHES: WHERE IS MADELINE?

Episode Date: May 18, 2023

After a night out with friends, Madeline Pantoja returned home, then stopped responding to texts and phone calls. One of Pantoja’s friends and a sibling went to her apartment, but the door was locked and no one answered. Midland police were called. Officers broke in and found Pantoja’s phone, keys and her dog inside. Her car was also still in the parking lot. Information began filtering in from neighbors who heard arguing from both inside and outside the apartment and screaming around 1 a.m. Surveillance cameras caught a pickup truck speeding away from the home.   Pantoja’s father says they are searching everywhere. People are using their drones to cover land and empty lots quickly, and sending the family videos and pictures of the footage. The family has also had offers of horses for searchers. Madeline Pantoja is approximately 5-feet 4-inches tall and 130 pounds with long dark hair. She has two butterfly tattoos behind her right ear and a tattoo of a snake on her right arm. Joining Nancy Grace Today: Jasmine Hernandez - Victim’s close friend (showed up at Madeline’s apartment the next day when she wasn’t answering her phone) https://www.gofundme.com/f/help-find-madeline #helpusfindmadeline Irv Miller - Criminal Defense Attorney, The Miller Firm; Legal Analyst: CBS2 Chicago WBBM-TV and Legal Technical Advisor to “THE GOOD WIFE” and “THE GOOD FIGHT”- CBS productions Dr. Carla Manly - Clinical Psychologist and Author: “Date Smart: Transform Your Relationships & Love Fearlessly" Dorian Bond - Private detective and owner of Bond Investigations Inc. in Dallas, TX. (largest African American-owned Private Investigative firm in the United States, Licensed in over 42 states and Canada for over 25 years); Former Detective in Arizona and Investigator on the “Baby Gabriel" case in Arizona; Twitter: @bondinvestigate Rachel Hallam - Reporter for KMID TV in Odessa, TX; Twitter: @rachelhallamtv See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A desperate search is on for a beautiful young 21-year-old Texas woman who seemingly disappeared into thin air without her phone or her car. Where is Madeline? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. First of all, take a listen to our friends at KWES. Search continues for a 21-year-old Midland woman, Madeline Amaline Panhoa. She was last seen on Wednesday around 11 p.m.

at 1711 West Francis. There's still no word on what she was last wearing, but her phone and car, they were left at her apartment. If you have any information on Madeline's whereabouts, you can call the Midland Police Department at 432-685-7108. It's a nightmare for any family having no idea where your loved one is. The Pandoja family says they have no new information on where Madeline is.

Madeline's father, Roberto, is just desperate to have his daughter back and safe. It's something that we don't wish this on anybody. We never thought this was going to happen to our family madeline pando hall was last seen at her apartment complex on may 10th thursday at 1 30 guys i'm taking a look at her right now she looks like a beauty queen and of, that's neither here nor there. Her life is as valuable as everyone else's. But I'm wondering who has seen her, because I would remember this face, anywhere. She's absolutely stunning. Where is Madeline?

With me in All-Star Panel to make sense of what we know right now, but I find it very, very disturbing right off the top that she's missing without her cell phone. Now, this is a 21-year-old girl and young woman, and if my children are any example or basically anybody I know and that includes all three of you sitting here in the studio nobody goes anywhere without their cell phone. Before I go to our investigative reporter joining us from KMID TV in Odessa that would be Rachel Hallam. I want to go straight to Carla, Dr. Carla Manley, clinical psychologist, author of Date Smart. Dr. Carla, it's great to have you with us. And guys, you can find her at drcarlamanley.com. Dr. Carla, it's like our cell phones are an appendage. I often think,

I'm sure you've seen or read Harry Potter's. They never go anywhere without their wand, ever. It's their lifeline. Same thing with a phone. My children take their phone everywhere. If they're in the back of the house and they come up to the front for a glass of milk, they bring their phone. I'm like, what do you think is going to happen? You're going to get a call from the White House.

Why do you have to have your phone with you at all times? But I really, you know, don't have a leg to stand on. I do the same thing. That is, I'm leading up to a point rather circuitously. I find it disturbing she doesn't have her phone. And that tells me she has been taken against her will. Absolutely. Our cell phones, for so many of us,

have become a security blanket. So if she's left her home without her cell phone, either she left, who knows, maybe just for a minute and intended to go back, but to leave your home for, what, over a week now and to not have your cell phone, that is really a negative sign. Let's go straight to Rachel Hallam, investigative reporter, KMID-TV, Odessa.

Rachel, thank you so much for being with us. Tell me, where was her car and where were her car and cell phone found? So, I mean, what we've been told is that her car and cell phone were at her apartment. Her cell phone was in her apartment off of West Francis in Midland. Now, it does seem that this apartment complex itself is pretty isolated. It is a good distance from downtown Midland, about five minutes. I know that doesn't seem like a whole lot, but it is a pretty good chunk of time. And it is connected to a pretty active street, which is Garfield Street, whereas

West Francis meets Garfield Street. Now, it seems like somebody would have seen it. Somebody could have seen her leave or be taken. So it's just odd, like you said. And interesting enough, it's a very active apartment complex itself, too. Rachel, I'm glad you said that. Guys, Rachel Hallam joining us, reporter KMID-TV. I want to talk about Midland for a moment. Midland, of course, we all know is in western Texas. It's an oil industry center. But what is grabbing my attention, it has a population of 131,325 at the last census.

In broad terms, that's a relatively small town. I came from one much smaller than that at the time out in the middle of all you could see are pine trees and soybean fields so that's Midland's bigger than where I came from but still when you're thinking about narrowing down suspects or narrowing down what happened to Madeline. I'm thinking about what you said, that it's about five minutes drive, not walk. Five minutes drive from the city center. Is that what you're saying, Rachel? Yes, ma'am.

It's about five minutes. Drive or walk? Drive. Drive. Okay. So that's significant. It's not like she got thrown in the car at a red light, a busy intersection in downtown Midland. She is out in a more residential area, but then also you said the apartment backs up on a very busy, is it an interstate?

Yes. So it connects to Garfield, which connects to I-20 interstate I-20 and that is a very very active interstate right there. Oh yeah I-20 goes all the way across the country to the eastern seaboard. Okay let me bring in Dorian Bond guys former Arizona detective private detective owner of Bond Investigations in Dallas. And I'd like to point out, that's the largest African-American-owned PI firm in the country. Licensed 42 states. Long story short, you can find them at bondinvestigations.com. Dorian Bond has looked for people.

Let me tell you that. The reason I'm concerned about it, first of all, being a suburban area, that's good as far as trying to find a suspect that may have taken her because it's less likely she's, you know, carjacked and taken or kidnapped, grabbed off a corner at an intersection or, you know, walking on a busy street, much less likely in a suburban area. But backing into I-20, that's a whole nother animal, Dorian, and I'll tell you why. This gives me, okay, I just felt it. It gives me shivers. I just got them down my legs. When I think about Shasta and Dylan Groney. I use them as the perfect example

Dorian. Dorian that was a little girl and her little brother up in Coeur d'Alene Idaho and if you look down on an aerial which I did from up in the sky looking down where they were kidnapped from their home you see nothing but green you don't even see their house and you think how did somebody find these two children to kidnap them unless they were a local you'd have to be a local to find that place right wrong a guy on the interstate dorian was driving by and he happened to look out from a certain vantage point and between the trees he saw Shasta the girl on her at her above ground pool went and killed the whole family and took the children later killed the little boy Shasta lived so you're not safe even in a nice suburban area

tucked away in Midland Texas that's what I. Yeah, when you're close to an interstate like that, and yes, you can see Midland's close to the border of Mexico, if somebody disappears, the first thing you're going to look at is look for their phone. I don't like that at all. Close to the border of Mexico? Nothing good is happening there. Go ahead, Dorian. Yeah, the first thing you're going to look at when you start an investigation is you

look for the person's phone. The fact that her phone was left there is going to first tell me that it's deliberate. Then we're also going to try to get a hold of the telephone company and see if we can get the last few phone calls, the geolocation of the phone, and maybe the last few text messages of who she texted, because that's going to be the key. But the fact that her phone is still there, it helps us because maybe they can get access to the phone. Maybe her family, which had information that may lead to the password on the phone.

But you know there's always going to be problems going through Apple trying to get through a phone. It's an iPhone. Yeah, hopefully somebody can crack it. I know everybody and my family's code to their phone. So somebody should probably know her code. Guys, joining me right now is a very special guest. It's one of Madeline's dearest friends.

She showed up at Madeline's apartment, but Madeline didn't answer the phone. Jasmine Hernandez is with us, but first, I want you to hear our friends at CrimeOnline.com. After a night out with friends, Madeline Pantoja stopped responding to texts and phone calls. One of Pantoja's siblings went to her apartment, but the door was locked and no one answered. Midland police were called. Officers broke in and found Pantoja's phone, keys, and her dog inside. Her car was also still in the parking lot. Information began filtering in from neighbors, who heard arguing from both inside and outside the apartment and screaming around 1 a.m. Surveillance cameras caught a pickup truck speeding away from the home.

Was that Madeline? Was she fighting someone off? If so, why didn't the neighbor call 911? And what do we know about a mystery truck peeling off? Could she have been crime stories with nancy grace i want to go straight to jasmine hernandez very dear friend of madeline's jasmine thank you for being with us what led you to go over to Madeline's apartment looking for her hi yes ma'am um so we had some plans that following day and so she was answering her phone and I have her location on my phone and I noticed that about her location was at her apartment all day and it's very unlike her to cancel plans to just not respond and she texts me every day so I know when something's wrong I know when I need to show up to make sure she's okay. So I showed up.

And sure enough, she wasn't in there. And the rest of her stuff was in there. Okay. That was a lot of information. Guys with me is a very dear friend of Madeline's. For those of you just joining us, a beautiful young 21-year-old Texas girl seemingly has vanished into thin air. If you have any information about Madeline Pantoja, 432-685-7108. Repeat, 432-685-7108. And with me, the dear friend that goes to find out Madeline's not there.

Now, I think you said, Jasmine, that you have her on your location. Yes, ma'am, I do. What were your plans for the next day? What were you two going to do? We were going to swim at her apartment. So let me understand this. You keep calling her. You text her. She never responds. You have plans for that day. About what time of the day did you go over and find out there's her car? The locator on the phone says she's in her apartment but she's not coming to the door I want to hear the whole thing and tell me in slow-mo Jasmine yes ma'am so I showed up around 6 45 p.m and I was outside her door for quite a bit of time

and I actually left at one point and had a gut feeling to go back why did you leave because she wouldn't come to the door yes I just figured maybe her phone's dead and maybe she left her phone here and maybe she left with a friend i don't want to overreact but then i don't know i just had a gut feeling to turn back around hold on let me make a note of that man so if your phone has gone dead everybody here in the studio google this very quickly i think i know the answer but i'm not sure if your phone goes dead will it still show up on the location tracker? I think it will show its last location, but I don't know that. Jack, can you look at that really quickly?

So you think, okay, your phone's dead. She's gone somewhere. And then you leave. What made you go back, Jasmine? I find that really curious. I just had a really bad gut feeling and I trust my gut. When you say bad gut feeling, what did it feel like? I felt wrong for leaving.

I don't know. I felt like I needed to know that she was at least okay and she was in there. Or if she was out with a friend, I needed to know. So I contacted her friends and sure enough, they hadn't heard from her either. Okay, guess what? I was wrong. If someone's phone dies, their location is no longer trackable. The phone would need to be turned on and connected to a network in order to be located if it's turned off

or the battery dies the phone can no longer be located huh I want but I guess you could still Jackie get the last known location but now we know when you're getting somebody's location on a tracker, like I've got my whole family on Life360, I guess when their phone dies, you can't track. But it does say my daughter's phone goes dead all the time. It says last at home at 240 p.m. So it does give you that much. OK, Jasmine, you know what I always tell the children? I always say, you know what? If what you're doing makes you feel bad or if you think you're not going to do something and that makes you feel bad, that means that's the wrong thing to do. You need to hear your feelings

and follow them. So you leave. Did you go get in your car? I did. I got in my car. I drove down the street. I actually called in some food and I never ended up getting the food. I turned back around and I went back. Wow. You are a loyal friend. So you've been out there banging on the door, ringing the doorbell, calling her name. Nobody comes to the door. You leave and then you have a second thought. You go back and then what happens? Still no answer to the door and You leave, and then you have a second thought. You go back, and then what happens? Still no answer to the door, and that's when I contacted her brother. Hey, tell me about her apartment, please, Jasmine. Can you see in there?

Is it on the second floor, third floor, first floor? Can you look in the back door? The front door doesn't have a balcony. What can you tell me? Yes, ma'am. So it is on the third floor, and she does have a balcony. And from her door, there's a little crack, and you can see that there is a light on. A crack where?

At the top of the door. Her door is a little wonky, so if you kind of lean on it, there's a crack at the top, and you can see whether the light's on or if it's off. So by then, you know, it's 7, 730. Is it getting dark? Not quite yet. It gets dark maybe around 8, 9-ish. But you can see a light was on inside. And, you know, her phone is saying it's

inside and did you see her car her car was there it was parked in the parking lot uh what kind of car is it it's a kind of like a dark blue mazda so then what do you do you call her brother and then what happens so he joins me and tries to continue knocking on the door and we were found by the maintenance man and he let us in for a wellness check and that's where we found all of her belongings her purse her phone her keys everything was there um her phone was between the couch her keys and her purse were on her coffee table well well phone was where between the couch you mean in the cushions yes the couch cushion down in the cushions interesting okay i know this sounds like a crazy question but when you say the phone was in the cushions. Interesting. Okay, I know this sounds like a crazy question, but when you say the phone

was in the cushions, was the phone on one end of the sofa? Like she had had her head on a pillow with her phone and it fell down in there? Where on the sofa was it? It was like towards the middle of the sofa between those cushions. Okay, all right. Phone in the cushions, purse there. Was the balcony locked? It wasn't't but she never locked her balcony well i mean yeah it was on the third floor and the dog was there right the dog was there dog named luna after you find all of her stuff there what did you do jasmine um we immediately got worried and that's when we called the midland police department and they had came down to start looking for us and figuring out what

to do. Has she ever gone this long without contacting you? No, she's never gone more than a couple hours without contacting me. How long have you known Madeline? For about four and a half years. Joining me right now is Irv Miller. You may recognize his name. He's a renowned criminal defense attorney with the Miller firm. You can see him on CBS, WBBM. He is the legal advisor to The Good Wife and The Good Fight with CBS. Irv, thank you for being with us. Here's the rub. She's 21 years old. You don't have to tell anybody you're going anywhere once you are of a majority. And cops will say, well, that doesn't mean she's missing. And they very often say, oh, she's run off with her boyfriend.

Some BS like that, because they know at that age, 21, you don't have to answer to anybody. You can leave without your cell phone. That's not a crime, right, Irv? It's not a crime, but it's not typical. And that's what the law enforcement agencies look for, what's not typical. When you have a missing person and the door is locked and they're not in there, the purse is still there, the dog is still there, the car is still there. You know, if I could just comment quickly about the location,

there's a big difference between what might happen in the city like Chicago where I live and what may happen in a rural area of Midland Texas you know in Chicago on every bridge on the highway there's license plate readers on doorbells on every block there's ring doorbells where you get pictures of what's going on and on street corners we have police pods with cameras on them to surveil the area. None of that's going to be present in this particular scene that we're talking about today. You know what? You're right. It's going to make it much more difficult.

The best clue we've got right now is a late night argument. I can't tell Rachel Hallam, KMID, joining us out of Odessa. The neighbors say they heard an argument. Did they hear a female voice or could they tell? From what I've been told, they could tell. There was a female voice and there was also a male voice. They were arguing both outside of the apartment and inside the apartment. Did they call 911?

Not from what I've been told, no. The search is on, guys. Take a listen to Hour Cut 3, our friends at KWES. We've gone to lands over there, just empty lots looking. We've had people that we don't know searching with their drones. They've sent us the videos. They sent us pictures of the footage they took. We've had people offer horses to us so that we can search. The family just wanting to find Madeline as soon as possible. I found my daughter.

All he wants is to find his daughter. If you have any information about Madeline's whereabouts, call MPD at 432-685-7108. Rachel Hallam joining us, investigative reporter, KMID-TV in Odessa. Tell me about the search. What is being done to find Madeline? Well, I mean, like we just heard, there are so many people in this area and even outside of Midland that are searching themselves, drones going out, they're going on foot in and out of fields. And I've been in contact with NPD pretty much every day since her disappearance, trying to get some answers. They say that they are actively investigating any leads that they might have and searching themselves. But as of right now, of course, there's just no updates. You know, I want to go to you, Dorian Bond, as well as Irv Miller, to talk about what should be done right now,

what should be happening in the search for this beautiful young woman, 21-year-old Texas woman, Madeline Pantoja. Dorian Bond joining me, detective, private investigator, owner of Bond Investigations, Inc. in Dallas. What should be happening right now to find her? Well, I'm sure the police have already done this, but the first thing I'm doing is going to interview the neighbors that heard the arguments. See if there's any kind of, sometimes the people in apartment complexes, they have cameras that are pointing outside their windows looking at their cars due to the uh property thefts in those areas so i'd check and see if there's any kind of cameras in the area look for red light cameras uh look for local businesses that are close by there that might have cameras to see if they can see any kind of vehicles going in and out and see if they can get any license plates um ran look at this see if they i don't know if

they have license plate camera readers in that area, but that's one of the first things. But like I said before, the first thing is the cell phone. If the cell phone's gone, you've got to move to talking to neighbors and what they've heard and what they heard in the midst of the argument. I'm very curious about ring doorbells. What do you know, if anything, about that? Rachel Hallam joining us, KMID, because we've had so manybells. What do you know, if anything, about that? Rachel Hallam joining us, KMID,

because we've had so many breakthroughs and searches from ring doorbells. Yeah, absolutely. And even out here, especially a lot of people have ring doorbells now. I mean, it wouldn't hurt, obviously, to see if anybody in that apartment complex had some. We've had a lot of breakthroughs in package thefts and petty thefts like that. But I mean, it definitely would be a possibility and a big help if they could have anybody have an eye on that. Rachel or Jasmine, what is the name of her apartment complex? It is the Palladium Apartments. They're in Midland? They are. And how big are those apartments? Jasmine, do you know how many people would live there? I'm not quite sure. Rachel, I'm trying to figure out if they have security cameras at the entry, the exit. When you look at the apartment, anyone on the panel, are there multiple entries and exits?

There is just the one entrance and they should have cameras right in the front. It is a pretty big apartment complex, so there should be plenty of residents and there's a lot of buildings, so there should be some cameras out there. Also, there's a playground. Is there a playground at Palladium? Yeah. Well, that tells me that they may very well have cameras. Have any of you seen a camera there? Yes, they do have cameras. Where? They all over the apartment, but they do not work. We've already contacted the management and they have said that none of them work besides the one entering the apartment to the gate. And that one is only a live feed. It doesn't save data according to the management. Is this Rachel or Jasmine? This is Jasmine. You know what? Really, Irv Miller?

Do I have to say the two words, Chandra Levy? Did nobody learn a darn thing? Remember when Chandra Levy went missing, the D.C. intern from California that was having the affair with the congressman, Condit, and she disappears. We can't find her, and she left her apartment just before she went missing, but they rolled over it. They videoed over it in the lobby, so you don't know if she left with somebody, if someone, you know, had a gun in her back under a coat. Was she dressed to go jogging? Was she dressed to go out to dinner? It would have told us so much.

That was the big deal when Chandra Levy went missing. She was later found dead. She had gone jogging, and I believe it was Rock Creek Park, not far from where she lived. But how much more quickly would we have looked there for her if we could have seen her in her jogging outfit, because that was her jogging route. So Irv Miller, you know what, that is a huge, huge blunder for the apartment complex. Oh, absolutely. And you know, in that case, also goes to prove that it's not always the

typical suspect that ends up being the bad guy. But the other thing that I would suggest that the police should be doing right away is checking financial accounts of hers to see if there was any suspicious activity on her credit card, suspicious activity on a bank account. to use an ATM and perhaps there's, you know, some of these ATM when they're fraudulently used, there's actually a photograph of the person that is actually using the ATM. Those are things that I think should also be doing rather quickly to try to solve this one. Are these the palladium apartments on La Mesa Road, Jasmine? No, ma'am. There are two palladium apartments. This one is across from the Horseshoe Arena. It is off the industrial. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. It's amazing to me that they don't have video cams and the ones they do have are only a live feed. The search for this young lady goes on. I mean, once you look at her, you will never forget her face. She is stunning. Guys, take a listen to our cut 19, our friends from CrimeOnline.com. It's been eight days since Madeline Pantoja disappeared.

Pantoja's father says they are searching everywhere. People are using their drones to cover land and empty lots quickly, sending the family videos, pictures of the footage. The family has also had offers of horses for searches. Madeline Pantoja is approximately 5 feet 4 inches tall and 130 pounds with long dark hair. She has two butterfly tattoos behind her right ear and a tattoo of a snake on her right arm. Okay, that is helpful. That's very distinctive. Tell me about the genesis, the origin of those tattoos, Jasmine Hernandez.

What do they mean, the butterfly tattoos? So she actually has a matching butterfly tattoo with another friend of hers. And the snake, she was so anxious to get her first tattoo. She just chose whatever she wanted to at the tattoo shop. Tell me about her personality, Jasmine. She's really bubbly. She's such a girl's girl. She's so sweet. It's honestly really disappointing that all this happened to her she really doesn't deserve any of this what

does she do for a living jasmine so she actually works with me um we bartend at clear springs cafe and we work there together dorian bond that opens up a whole cornucopia of possibilities, a real Pandora's box. How do we know that someone didn't spot her as a bartender, follow her, stalk her, get obsessed with her? It happens a lot, Dorian. It does happen a lot. And I know a lot of bars have implemented that when the bartenders do leave that somebody, usually security, walks them to the leave that somebody usually security walks them to the car but not only walks them to their car but they also watch to make sure if any vehicles follow them before they leave and uh see exactly how many vehicles um departed the area right when the bartenders left because that's an extra layer of security because that's one problem that we've started noticing a lot of people go to bars and they fall in love with the bartender

because the bartender's being nice, which usually bartenders are nice because they're looking for a tip. And so some people take that niceness the wrong way and then they follow them home and we've had problems like that across the country. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Joining me is Dr. Carla Manley, clinical psychologist, author of Date Smart, Transform Your Relationships and Love Fearlessly. Dr. Carla, thank you for being with us. You never know. I can't tell you how many cases that I have personally investigated where a woman works at a restaurant, a bar, as a hostess at even upscale restaurants. particular echelon, women that work at hotels, or really in any people industry where you have to meet people as part of your job. And there's always a weirdo out there.

There always is. I don't care if you're at the Ritz Carlton or if you're at the worst bar in town. There's always going to be a weirdo that locks in on you, Dr. Carla. Absolutely. And when you're in a public facing position, like being a bartender, it is so difficult because then there's the added element where people, some people who don't have very high emotional intelligence believe that you are also a commodity. And that can be a real draw for someone who isn't in sound mental health. The family is suffering. Take a listen to our cut nine, our friends at ABC.

Most would not expect this to happen to someone they love. And for friends and family of madeline that is exactly the case just she was too self-loving and like goofy caring it was like who would have thought anyone could hurt like such a sweet soul like that overall they just hope that if she is watching they have so much they want her to know please don't blame yourself for anything we are here for you you will always be here for you and no no matter what, we will keep trying. There's so many people looking for you. There's so many people that just want you back.

You're not alone. And we're not going to stop looking for you until we have a response. We will find you. We will give up. And our cut 20, our friends at NewsWest 9. The days have just been all mushed together, honestly. Because we've just been doing the same thing. We've just been reaching out to whoever we can reach out to,

looking in the landfills and everywhere we can look for her. It's like the best word right now is just heartbroken because we feel hopeless. There's nothing that we can do. Like it's out of our hands and we searched everywhere. We passed out flyers everywhere. If you're watching this, Maddie, just be strong. We're coming to get you and we're trying our hardest to find you. Just stay strong and we will stay strong too we just hope that you're

safe and you're alive and that at the end of this year at the end of this you're the light at the end of the tunnel after all of this and we won't stop searching ever family and friends doing everything they can to help police find missing Madeline. Rachel Hallam joining us, investigative reporter KMID, who's been on the story from the very beginning. And that's got to be a horrible, horrible scenario for her friends out digging through landfills trying to find her. What can you tell me about the identity of the man we believe was having an argument around 1 a.m. that morning at her or near her apartment? Yeah, so what I've been told is that he was an ex-boyfriend of Madeline and they were having an argument, like we had mentioned, outside of their apartment and inside their apartment. They had been living together for a while, but recently had broken up.

And he still had a key to her apartment and told friends that he didn't have a key. But they told me that they knew he had a key. And he was probably one of the only options to get into her apartment. Luckily, the maintenance man, like we had talked about, helped them get in there, but they know that he had a key to her apartment still. Jaz and Hernandez, how long had they been broken up? I want to say for about a month. Let me guess, she broke up with him?

Yes, ma'am. Was he angry about the breakup? Yes, ma'am. More so upset and sad. Just trying to get her back any way he could. Really? Any way he could? Like, what was he doing to try to get her back? Sometimes he would just send flowers to her apartment randomly, but she would continually say that she did not want to get back with him and that she was better off by herself. Why did she break up with him? Honestly, he just wasn't very good of a person inside and out. He just wasn't very, very good. And she deserved more than what he had to offer her.

Okay. What do you mean? Did he neglect her? Was he rude to her? Was he abusive to her? Why did she break up with him? What did she tell you as to why she broke up? She told me that he cheated on her with someone.

So, yeah, that's the reason for the breakup. She didn't really go into detail. And we don't know that that's true or whether she thought that it happened and it did or did not happen but that's the reason she gave for breaking up you know uh irv miller the fact that she was in the midst of an argument with the boyfriend an ex-boyfriend that she had broken up with is very disturbing. Oh, it's very disturbing. And it's a typical scenario that could lead to the end of a relationship in a not very good manner. Hopefully that's not true in this particular case.

But it's certainly a focus for the police to start looking at this person as a potential suspect. I would imagine at this point in time that the police have attempted to gain access through whatever phone company, cell phone company he has to try to get a little information off of where he's been in the hours and days after she was discovered missing and trying to eventually get a hold of his cell phone to get that GPS information that is always very hold of his cell phone to get that GPS information that is always very helpful that your cell phone collects for everybody.

Absolutely, Irv Miller. And whether he is or is not a person of interest, he still needs to be pinged all of his movements. Rachel Hallam, was he absolutely identified as the person arguing at her home? As of now, no. I mean, there's just a lot of rumors that are going around social media. I know that his name is kind of being dragged around as well. But we have no confirmation from police of any sort of identification for the person arguing with Madeline.

So it may or may not have been him. Quick question. Jasmine Hernandez, did Madeline have a ring doorbell or any kind of security video at her home? No, ma'am, she did not have any. Rachel or Jasmine, do we know if the ex is cooperating with police? From what I've seen, he is not. Okay, well, that's not a good sign, but it is not completely probative either. So Dorian Bond, what now? Well well i'd look at what we're gonna have to track him down look at his uh cell phone we're gonna have to uh talk to family members

uh see where exactly he has been look at see if he's got a passport has he been back and forth to mexico there's lots of different steps i'm sure they're probably pursuing it's just once he gets into the mix it it's a whole different story. And my main thing is talking to his friends and then I'm tracking his cell phone right now. Absolutely. And you don't need him to cooperate to track his cell phone or to find his friends or to put him under surveillance or to put a GPS tracker on his car. I hope he hears this and cooperates. If you love her and you want her back, now's the time to prove it.

Tip line is 432-685-7108. Where is Maddie? Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.