Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Gorgeous young American cruise ship star found dead - investigation bungled?

Episode Date: December 1, 2017

Jackie Kastrinelis, a 24-year-old Massachusetts woman, was found dead on the Seven Seas Voyager off Australia's coast in 2013. She was a singer on the cruise ship and was planning to make her move to the Broadway stage soon. Now her family is fighting police, who they think bungled her death probe, to reopen her case. Nancy Grace talks with parent Kathleen & Mike Kastrinelis in this Crime Stories episode. Nancy is also joined by Michele Barton, mother of Tanner Barton -- a college student who mysteriously died in Indiana, death scene investigator Joseph Scott Morgan, psychologist Caryn Stark, syndicated radio host David Mack, and CrimeOnline.com reporter Leigh Egan, Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. AND PUSHING FOR HER CASE TO BE REOPENED. 24-YEAR-OLD JACKIE CASTRONELLIS MISTERIOUSLY DIED IN FEBRUARY OF 2013. Everything seemed good. SHE WAS WORKING ON BOARD THE SEVEN SEAS VOYAGER OFF THE NORTHERN COAST OF AUSTRALIA. A 24-YEAR-OLD GIRL IN GOOD HEALTH, ACTIVE, DOESN'T JUST

FALL ASLEEP AND NOT WAKE UP. AUTHORITIES IN THE NORTHERN TERRITORY INVESTIGATED JACKIE'S DEATH, RULING SHE DIED OF SUDDEN, UNEXPECTED DEATH SYNDROME. BUT HER PARENTS WEREN'T CONVINCED, AND ASKED FOR A

SECOND REVIEW. It's been a constant. I've been in the hospital for a long time. I've been in the hospital for a long time. I've been in the hospital for a long time. I've been in the Northern Territory investigated Jackie's death, ruling she died of sudden unexpected death syndrome. But her parents weren't convinced and asked for a second review. It's been a constant fight and struggle to get information. A beautiful young girl, absolutely gorgeous and talented,

described as glamorous. And when I look at her photos, I can see why. Why she's described as a glamorous cruise ship singer. You know, when you say a glamorous cruise ship singer, it sounds like a grown lady. This was a 24-year-old girl, a University of Hartford grad student, who had been working for a cruise line for two years, and her dream was to audition for Broadway when she got home from the cruise ship. That's her big dream and she was making it. She was absolutely making it. I'm talking about Jackie Castronellis from Groveland, Massachusetts. Jackie died on the Seven Seas Voyager, a cruise ship, an upscale cruise ship.

I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories, and I want answers. Every, quote, story we talk about, it's not a story. It's real. These are real people enduring real hardship. And the least we can do is try our best to investigate and shine a light on what's happening and bring them justice, if nothing else. I'm talking about the mystery death of a glamorous cruise ship singer, a young American girl just graduated from college and really headed to Broadway.

What happened on this cruise ship? Joining me right now are her parents, the parents of Jackie Castronellis, Kathy and Mike Castronellis, also with me, Michelle Barton, the mother of just the most handsome young college student son who mysteriously passed away. Dave Mack, syndicated talk show host. Lee Egan, crime online investigative reporter. Joe Scott, Morgan forensics investigator. And Karen Stark, psychologist, joining us out of New York. And of course, my buddy Alan Duke from L.A.,

I first want to go to Kathy and Mike Castronellis. First of all, thank you for being with us. So many parents deal with the loss of their child. And I've got to tell you, Kathy and Mike, when my fiancé was murdered, I thought I knew everything there was about grief and pain. I thought I knew it all. But now all these years later that I have a son and a daughter, I just don't know how you keep going. Kathy, what keeps you going every day?

How do you get the strength to put one foot in front of the other? It's sort of hard to explain. I guess the best way to say it is you realize really quickly that you're in a really deep hole and that it's really going to be difficult. And our family's always been really close. And I think we just drew together even closer during those first few months. One of our sons was at the time finishing his senior year in college. And he came home after college and spent some time living at home for a while, for a few months as he started his first job, I think just for us all to be together more, and it really helped. You know, obviously you don't just sit at home and figure it out.

You know, I saw a therapist. I talked to people. I exercised a ton. I think that was what kept me sleeping at night. And I think that we just leaned on each other, and we just had an incredible amount of support from our families and our friends and our community. And just all of that support meant more than we could ever express in a card

or a thank-you note. It just meant everything. You know, I'm looking at Jackie's photo right now, more than we can ever express in a card or a thank you note. It just meant everything. You know, I'm looking at Jackie's photo right now, and she's absolutely beautiful. Mike Castronellis and Kathleen Cathy are both with us, Jackie's parents. Mike, I know it must have been hard. Like, I dread the day that my children go off to college. I mean, God willing, they go to college. Okay, number one.

And number two, yes, Mike, I know it's healthy that they grow up and move away. Not healthy for me, healthy for them. But I dread it. When your daughter announced that she was going to get a job as a, I just have to keep saying it, glamorous. Because she is glamorous. When she's got on her performing outfits and she's singing up on the stage, it's like, wow. When she told you that she was going to go on a cruise ship and entertain for a living and would be gone most of the time, what did you think? Well, I actually, I travel the world a great deal with my profession.

And I thought initially I had the reservations of her going out on her own like that. But she was living her dream. And I think we both felt that this was really an opportunity for her not just to see the world, but to pursue her dream as a singer, actor, dancer. What is your business, Mike? Why do you have to travel so much? I'm an airline pilot. Okay, well, that makes sense.

Okay, so I'm looking at the photos of her singing right now, and she's got on this beautiful gold dress, a shiny long dress. And here's one of her in a black, long sequined dress singing with this big smile on her face. Kathleen, did you feel the same when Jackie announced that she was taking a job with the cruise line?

We were excited for her. I mean, she had it together. You know, she knew what she needed to do. She had moved down to New to do. She had moved down to New York City. She had gotten a job, as all actresses do, waitressing, in order to audition during the daytime. And within six months, she said this was the opportunity she wanted. She thought this would get her out there and help her. And she was making contacts on her first cruise. and it was difficult having

her away so much but um thank god for the internet we skyped with her all the time so we were in touch with her on a really um a lot we were in touch with her a lot she kept in touch with us on a very very frequent basis what we know right now, Dave Mack joining us, syndicated talk show host, is that seemingly the investigation into her surprise death was completely bungled. I mean, you've got three men on board that I'm interested in. One she used to date and was very jealous of her when she was dating. And there was a third guy. And this is a nice young girl. And I don't know the backgrounds of these guys.

You're right to question that, Nancy. Look, this idiot who did the investigation to start with bungled it forever, messed with it for 14 months, and came up with sudden unexpected death syndrome without even bothering to note that of the three men you were just talking about. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Joe Scott Morgan, a death investigator and professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University, I've never heard of that applied to an adult. It sounds like SIDS, sudden infant death syndrome, when there's an unexplained death. That's not working for me with a 24-year-old girl that was absolutely in perfect health. Yeah, it's kind of a diagnosis of last resort. I've worked, you know, having worked at the coroner's office in New Orleans

and with the medical examiner in Atlanta over the years, I am aware of this diagnosis, but it is a diagnosis of elimination when everything else fails. And they did wait for an extended period of time. And just so that you know, I'll break this down in very simplistic terms for the audience. This is characterized by what's referred to as a cardiac arrhythmia. And essentially what that means is that the heart will go into a dysrhythmic event where the electronic impulses, if you will, that are causing the heart to beat begin to beat irregularly. And that's simply what they're saying, that the heart simply in layman's terms. Please stop. OK, because I'm not buying that. This let me confirm.

Kathy and Mike, did she have a heart condition that you know of? No. So, Joe Scott, bottom line, it sounds to me like they bungled the investigation, and so they said she had a bad heart. I mean, it's a cold A-N-H-E-L-L that a healthy 24-year-old girl just suddenly dies in her sleep. I'm not buying that. What more do we know? First of all, I want to go back to Kathy Castronellis. This is Jackie's mom. When did you learn that

Jackie had passed away? We learned from Gina and Ryan Productions, the talent scout that had found her. We received a call about 11 p.m. So that would have been, in their time, it would have been maybe, I think, three or four in the afternoon in Australia, which means they knew about it for, I don't know, over six hours before we received any contact. What did they tell you had happened, Kathy? They didn't know. At that point, it was just Jean Ann Ryan. She was in tears. She knew Jackie. She had worked with her for three contracts, this being the third. And she was devastated and in tears and just said they just didn't know what had happened and that she was heartbroken. And she was.

I'm sure she was. But it took us a while to get any information about anything that had occurred. I think it was a few days before we heard from the investigator, Detective Henry's in Australia. Well, one thing's concerning me, David Mack. Well, there are a lot of things about Jackie's untimely death that are red flags to me. Number one, you've got the ex-boyfriend that she broke up with ex-boyfriend roman uh there is a crew member daniel that i'm looking at none of these people have been named a suspect or a person of interest they are just people connected to jackie then

there is an engineer on board named janice. But what's concerning me just right off the bat, Dave Mack, is that according to reports, allegedly Roman, the ex-boyfriend that she broke up with and he's extremely jealous, according to reports, lied in his first police interview

and denied that he was ever jealous after seeing her and the engineer, Janice, together on board. Now, there's absolutely nothing wrong with this young lady having a boyfriend. She's beautiful. She's talented. She's smart. She's headed to Broadway.

And she broke up with this guy, and he just couldn't stand it, according to reports. Now, that's one thing. But lying to police is a whole other can of worms if it's true, Dave Mack. Well, Nancy, here's what we've got. You know, we've got actual statements from each three, all three of the guys that are involved in the police report, in the detective's report. And each one of them was not truthful. Each one of these men was not telling the truth all the way and roman in particular the ex-boyfriend really has some problems here because as we know when you go on a cruise uh you've got the key lock you know that where you swipe your card and that key reader they've got a track

record of every time the doors open and who opened it they know when these guys were in their rooms when they were near her room and when this guy roman I mean Nancy he was all over the place between the time she gets back to her room and he goes back to his own room he's in a wi-fi place to get in the bar but he can't explain why he's anywhere but he's walking around like he's panicked doing something and by the way that's the guy who lied about being the incredibly jealous boyfriend of this beautiful young entertainer that is the beginning of my problems is with the ex Roman. Can you imagine her, Jackie Castronellis, this young American girl, she's on board the cruise ship working. Little does she know she's in the middle of an ocean with someone eaten up with jealousy after their breakup. With me are Jackie's parents, Kathy and Mike Castronellis. I want to pause and thank our partner making our

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call pound 250 and say the keyword grace. Call pound 250 keyword grace. Remember, it's simple to get started. Call pound 250 keyword grace. That's pound 250 and say grace. Now back to the story of this young girl, Jackie Castronellis. Okay, Joe Scott Morgan, you're trying to tell me that this young girl's death was a natural cause. And I am not buying it. The parents, you just heard them say she did not have a heart condition. And the condition they're talking about would have probably been hereditary. Joe Scott? Oh, let's back up a second.

I'm not telling you that. The people in Northwest Territory are telling you that. That's true. Well, you said it like you believed it. No, I say it because I know what the fallback position for a lot of these people that do inadequate work is. I've been around them my entire adult life. And this sounds like what I refer to as a weasel diagnosis. And that means that they're trying to hedge their bets.

And this is a sad thing when you're talking about a young girl's death that remains unexplained up to this point. And I have a real problem with this. And another big problem that I have with this case, Nancy, is that when this took place, the coroner, as they're referred to in this location, did not attend the scene. They were completely dependent upon the eyes and the ears of the police at the scene. And we have to go back to this and examine this set of circumstances because the police are not equipped to examine a case like this that is multilayered, that's very thick with scientific data that they have to sift through. They're not equipped. Okay, hold on.

You know what? You're losing me. You're losing me big time. I want to go through what we know about that night dave mack what do we know about that night what happened all right in the hours um the hour in question here from when uh when she jackie gets back to her to her room okay we've got three men all telling different stories about when and where they were at the time that they again roman claims that he saw her at it with another man at a time that is impossible based on her own room code her own key rather we've got the uh engineer on the boat janice who also

told a different story claiming he was with her much earlier and we have another man daniel who was involved in some type of relationship with her according to him but again he also was not truthful about the time she was never tested for ketamine they didn't do a proper dna test to rule out first responders and to find out who actually was there that they could go back to later on and actually figure out what happened nancy this is messed up from the beginning to the very end. And my heart breaks for the parents. Another problem that I see to Kathy and Mike, who are joining us, this is this is Jackie's parents, is that out on the high seas, it's a whole different ballgame, because you cannot possibly go back and reconstruct it. At the end

of that week, well, of course, now she was in a staff room, but there's a turnover immediately, and the room is sanitized, and it's gone. So it's very hard to reconstruct what happened, Kathy. She had her own room. That was her room. Right. So they're on there for months. That whole cast and crew was together for months. And we were promised by the detective that if he had to fly to China to re-interview people, that would be done. And that was never done. They made us so many assurances that they never did. They never followed up on them. We didn't fully understand or realize all that until we finally saw this full report,

and we finally had to get some people involved that understand this better than we do to go through it with us and help us understand it. So it's taken us years here of trying to get information. Let me understand, what is your concern with the investigation? I've got a lot of concerns, but what are your concerns? That they made a diagnosis heavily based on witness statements. And as has already been pointed out, you know the same thing we know.

The witnesses, they're contradictory. The statements are contradictory. It doesn't tell us really where people were. It needs to be examined again. They have the cabin access records. Those can be reviewed again. They can get access to the people involved and re-interview them and find out more surely where people were. And they had other people they never interviewed that they could have interviewed. So they didn't get corroboration. What is your understanding, Kathy, of Jackie's, your daughter's, movements the night of her death? What happened? Did she perform that night?

Was it an off night? Did she go to dinner? What do you know? Well, we know that we spoke with her that afternoon. We Skyped with her that afternoon, and she was in good spirits and fine. She was in between rehearsals, which is typical, and she told us they were going to be in port the next day. Where? At Darwin. They were expected to be in port at Darwin the next day.

Okay. So at the time we Skyped with her, she was just resting in her room, and she said she had to go back out, we assumed, for another rehearsal. We now understand that the next thing that she attended was a captain's party, which is typical, where they meet and greet the guests on the ship. And then following that, they had another rehearsal, a 45-minute rehearsal, and then they received a late dinner in the crew mass at like 8.30 p.m., which is typical of their schedule on the ship. And she was at the dinner, correct? Yes, yes. She ate dinner with her cast.

So she was fine at 8.30. Okay, then what happened? Then that's when the reports are, you know, the time of people remembering different times. They all went to the, what do you call it, the crew lounge? The crew bar. I'm sorry, the crew bar, where they were having a going ashore party because the ship had been stuck out at sea with a typhoon so this was after five days they were finally going to make sure so the crew that was having a little bit of a going ashore party so there were a lot of people at the crew bar um jackie went down with the cast members and she was sitting with the cast, talking with people.

Then she left, presumably to go back to her room, because she came back changed into like a, there was supposed to be a beach theme. She came back in shorts and a beach shirt and floppy sandals and stayed at the bar. And her cast members left. They said they saw her when they left at quarter of 12. And the crew bar closes at 1 a.m.

And Jackie's cabin access shows that she entered her cabin at 10 of 1. And yet there's another access to her cabin at 1.40 a.m. Who got access to her cabin at 1.40? Well, we don't know if that was her, if she went in, and maybe, I know from speaking to the other girls in the cast that sometimes they would leave their room to go upstairs to the, I think it's the crew mess that's kind of open all night with the crews changing, because they can get internet up there when they're at sea sometimes. Could you repeat that last sentence? Okay, so talking to her cast members, they said, well, maybe she went out of her room again to go upstairs with her to get access to the Internet in the crew mess.

But there's no statements from anybody who was at the crew mess who saw her. We would like to know. Let me ask you this. Why are you saying that she may have left her room? Are you just saying that her door opened? No, her cabin was accessed again at 1.40 a.m., and we don't know how or why. But with her key?

Yes, she has an individual card, yes. So she was there at the end of the going ashore party. It was closing down. It was about 12.45, 12.50, and she leaves the party and goes to her room. And you can tell that from her swipe card. That's what her cabin record shows. Okay, and then at 140, which is about 50 minutes later, she leaves, she comes back in her room again. Is that correct?

We don't know. Was it with her card well yes i mean they never collected the cards and the evidence so i don't know well can they not tell whose card accessed her room it was her card okay so how about use of the internet was there any use of the Internet? Was there any use of her Internet between 1 and 140? They said no. We don't know. That doesn't really make any sense. What more might Castronella, since this is Jackie's dad, do you know it's that murky time between 1 and 140 where somebody using her car comes back in her room, and then I guess it's the next day that she is found dead.

What do we know about that time? She did not access the Internet. What about anybody else's key? Was she in any other part of the ship? There's no record of her leaving her room after that point in time. Okay. And there's no witnesses that saw her in any other places

in the crew areas. And in her room, they all have private rooms, don't they? Well, yeah. The headliners get private rooms, yes. Now, what do you make, Mike Castronellis, of the guys that the one Roman that she had broke?

Wait a minute. Why don't they have any surveillance cameras on a cruise ship, Mike? Well, we've been told again and again that cruise ships do, in fact, have a great deal of video surveillance. However, on this ship, from what we have been told from the Australian authorities, the crew areas on this ship did not have video surveillance. Because I had mentioned to you earlier that we had taken the children on a Disney cruise, and everywhere I looked, there was a camera looking right at me. Everywhere.

I mean, you couldn't sneeze without a camera looking right at you. Now, granted, I was not in the crew areas, but it seemed to be blanketed with cameras, Mike. It's just really hard to believe that in the hallways, like in hotels, and I know on the Disney cruise, in the hallways, there were cameras. I didn't think anything of it, Mike. Well, not just that. This is also the starship of the fleet. They only have three ships, but this is the big one and the newest. And you would think that they would certainly have that type of capability throughout the ship

because professionals have told us that other cruise ships have it in both the crew quarters as well as the public areas. But again, what we've been told is that this ship, for some reason, there was nothing in the crew areas. So, Kathy, question. What do you make of these three gentlemen? You've got the guy she broke up with four months before, who we now hear is allegedly extremely jealous of her. There is the engineer, Janice, that she had been seeing, and then there is a third guy, and he's kind of in the periphery.

What is your understanding of these three guys? I don't really have an opinion one way or the other except to say that I think that everyone who had access to Jackie should be re-interviewed thoroughly. I mean, we never saw the first interviews that were done. They didn't release that information to us, so we don't know what was said in the first interviews as compared to the second interviews. Some of the interviews that have been released to us aren't really interviews.

They're just assigned statements, so we don't really know what was said. So much information just has not been given to us that we asked for repeatedly. Well, I know this much, Kathy, and let me go to you on this. Dave Mack, syndicated talk show host. The one guy that

she had broken up with claims he saw her with the engineer, Janice, at 1.40 a.m. That would have been them either going in her cabin together to hang out or leaving her cabin.

But he says he saw her with Janice, the engineer, at 140 a.m. And that does coincide with her cabin door being accessed by her own swipe. We also see an interest to Janice's cabin around 1250, which is the same time about that she entered her cabin after the party. But we also know that he lied, according to reports. So I don't know that I can believe anything he has to say, Dave Mack. I don't believe a word out of any three of those guys. You know, the other part about all this, Nancy, is the investigation was so incompetent that after 48 hours, they just let the ship leave with all these three guys on there

without any DNA testing, without any drug testing, with nothing. Just let them go and say, oh, yeah, we'll chase them down wherever we need to, which we know they haven't. But back to the inconsistencies on Roman. This is an interesting cat that he claims he sees his ex-girlfriend, Jackie, with Janiceice the cabin guy at 140 in the morning when we know that his door was accessed 50 minutes earlier not at 140 then we have Jackie herself's door accessed around that same time that Roman claims he sees a couple

back up a minute and now we've got Roman's own door his access at 150 in the morning 228 in the morning and 313 in the morning so we've got a guy that is a loose cannon, lies about his relationship to Jackie to the police, denies he has one. Then they come back and go, wait a minute. You're stalking her at 150. You're figuring something out here. So he's circling up and trying to do something. Wait a minute. I want to talk about what you just said.

You're stalking her. That's what I'm looking at. Okay, now, that would be a... Hold on. At first, I would say, hey, hey, hey, I don't know anything about any stalking. But if you think about it, what is he doing seeing them at 140 in the morning? How does he know what she's doing at 140 in the morning? Hold on.

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Karen Stark, how did that happen? What a coincidence. I mean, have you seen this cruise ship, Karen Stark? It's huge. He just happened to see them. It's all very suspicious, Nancy. Stalking behavior is really aberrant behavior and criminal. You're not allowed to do that.

And yet you wonder at that time in the morning what he was doing, being aware of where she was in such a, as you said, it's a huge ship. And yet he happens upon her. So this is all very suspicious. Just the lying alone. Yeah, I just find that quite the coincidence that he happens to be exactly where she is. And combine that with reports, he is extremely jealous of her new relationship. And she ends up dead. No, no, no, no. And I find it interesting what Dave Mack syndicated talk host, was saying about him popping up with his swipe card all over the ship. Why?

I mean, what does he do? Is he following them? What exactly is he doing? Or is something even more nefarious occurred? Does he know what happened? To Lee Egan, Crime Online reporter joining us. Lee, weigh in. I think there's something very strange with all three men. I think all three need to be

re-interviewed. I think the Australian police or whoever's handling this at this point need to do their job. They let these guys go. Do they even know where they are at this point? I think Kathy said one's in China. Do they know how to find them? All three, all three of them have to be re-interviewed and thoroughly. You know, this reminds me so much to Michelle Barton joining us. This is the mother of Tanner Barton, just scrubbed with sunshine, young college student who mysteriously passed away. And she has been crusading ever since to find the truth. Michelle, what Kathy and Mike Castronellis are saying rings so true to your story. What is your advice?

How do you keep going and keep that search for justice alive, Michelle? Well, my heart goes out to Mike and Kathy. It's awful. God bless you. I just push forward. I never, ever stop because Tanner deserves more. Tanner deserves truth. Tanner deserves answers.

And so does their daughter. So I just keep pushing. Keep pushing. Keep putting the spotlight on everyone. Like the investigation with Tanner, Michelle, there are so many holes in the investigation of Jackie's death. And it's just very disheartening. How do you keep going and plugging away trying to find out the truth, Michelle?

I don't know, by God's grace. I honestly, I just, every day I wake up, it's a full-time job. It's a 24-hour job, seven days a week. I never stop. I never stop. Well, listen to this. What I am learning as I investigate more and more into her death, I learned that police never examined the ex-boyfriend Roman's computers. And the cruise ship ends up leaving Australia with the three men on board. All right. And his computer was never searched. I'm talking about his laptop, his iPad, his iPhone. They did not test the sheets and pillowcases in her room for DNA.

They didn't rule out the first responders. They did not check her cabin for fingerprints. That is elementary. That is number one. You take fingerprints and DNA. The Northern Territory Forensics Examiners did not test her for the drug ketamine, which stunned her family. Also, the family then goes on to organize an independent blood and tissue analysis

to be done in the U.S., where they know that it will be done correctly. But the police refused to cooperate. The U.S. consulate had to get involved. And so what happened then, Kathy, after the consulate gets involved? Well, this is where we are now. And this is why we appreciate you shining a light on this so strongly. We are in a position right now where the coroner, there's a new coroner, it's an elected office, I believe, and he's considering reopening the investigation. What happened when we tried to get the evidence moved here was that there was open opposition by the pathologist

who had done the autopsy. He did not want a second review. A lab technician. I don't like that right there. Hold on. Justice Scott Morgan, a death investigator and professor of forensics. You know what? When I was in the DA's office, you know, for 10 years, I try cases constantly. We were on trial every other week. If I suddenly had to say I got a speedy trial demand and I had to go forward with another case or else there'd be an acquittal. I had no problem handing my files over to somebody else saying, look, take this file. I've got it ready. Ask me anything you want to know. Get busy. It's going to go to trial in a couple of weeks and I'm called off on a murder trial. I mean, why?

I mean, what's there to hide? Why doesn't he want another medical examiner to look at the results? Why? Explain that to me, Joe Scott. There is no explanation for it, Nancy. The reality is this. You do your work as a professional. You meet and exceed the standard by which you are

conferred that title of forensic pathologist, and you should not worry about what someone else is going to think about the case. Let the chips fall where they may. This is a major problem with this case, and this backs up all the way to the scene, Nancy. There is a thread that runs through this thing that stinks to high heaven. Even at university, at this young age, I teach my students that every death, not some deaths, but every death, all deaths are considered a homicide until proven otherwise. It goes back to the old legal adage, you can never unring the bell. Once you cross that threshold into that cabin, if you go in there slipshod and you just act as if this is just a death and it's probably a natural death because we don't see things overturned and a struggle and

all that sort of thing, that assumption is going to wreck the entire case. And it has made the life of these parents pure hell at this point. Hell. Hell. So the family has to go out. The Castanellas have to go out on their own to organize independent blood and tissue analysis in the U.S. At that time, the NT police, Northern Territory, refused to cooperate. The consulate, they have to call in the U.S. consulate. So the Northern Territory police finally admit failure, and they send a package of samples to their counterparts in Groveland, Massachusetts, and to the FBI. Now, please tell me I'm wrong, Mike. When the FBI opens the package, they find tissue samples, but the blood samples and the autopsy photos are missing. That's correct. In the words of the FBI agent, the two most important pieces,

the blood sample and the autopsy photos, were missing. I don't understand it. What is the Northern Territory Police? What is that? Mike? Boy, that's a good question. Is that Australia? The way we've heard it best described.

Oh, yes. It's a section of the outback. It's very remote. And Darwin is perhaps the only real big city in that area up on the northern coast. So let me understand, Mike Castronellis. They come onto the ship. What's the name of the ship again, Mike? The Seven Seas Voyager. The Seven Seas Voyager. And they, what, take over the investigation? Is that what happened? And then they botch it?

That's my understanding. Oh, oh, oh. Okay. So what's happening right now, Mike? What's happening with Jackie's case right now? Well, things have really broken open here over the last few weeks as a result of an article that was in the Australian Sunday magazine, and one of their reporters had made contact with us, Cameron Stewart. And he really got things to start moving forward again for us. We've been in a holding pattern really for the last two and a half, three years with just resistance at every turn and corner. But this now, we're starting to get people at least talking to us, and people obviously are taking notice. I'm assuming that's how you also heard of the situation.

Well, I read about it. I heard about her case, and I started investigating it. I mean, what you've suffered with losing her is devastating but then not knowing what happened and having people I know it's not intentional I'm sure it's just slipshod work but it's almost as if they're sabotaging your search for what really happened and what's really getting to me aside from that is claiming that she had some sort of a heart ailment, Mike. Yeah. And you had mentioned it earlier, that type of heart ailment is something that does have a genetic base.

We've all been tested, both of her brothers as well as us. And there's no evidence whatsoever to support that type of finding. Kathleen, when she was found, this is Kathy Castronella, Jackie's mom. Did she have on her PJs? Did she still have on the clothes she wore to the beach party? Was she unclothed? Could you tell if she had gotten ready for bed like taking off her makeup and all that what do we know about the way she was found kathy um well we didn't we know just from the witness

statements of like the the maid or whatever that went into her side like initially a steward i think went to the cabin and opened it because her alarm was going off her alarm to wake up on her blackberry and she wasn't where she was supposed to be. So they were concerned. And, um, so she was in bed covered up, but she had on just her, her black underwear. Um, typical for her would be more of a t-shirt and a pair of underwear for bed. And she had all of her makeup on still, um, which is a little not, was that normal for her? Not that normal. No. And typically she takes good care of her skin. She's in the performance industry. I mean, I just can't go to bed with makeup on my face. I just can't even stand the thought of it.

So I would not be in bed. But typically she would remove the makeup, yes. And she didn't have on her customary t-shirt. No, but that's not that alarming one way or the other, but she didn't have on her customary T-shirt. No. Interesting. That's not that alarming one way or the other. But they didn't even pick up her clothing that she had worn that night. You would think they would have taken that into evidence.

And we did not know that. So when all this clothing was shipped home, we donated it. We dispensed of it, except for some special items. We didn't realize that they would have shipped home clothing that might have possibly been important. Oh, my stars. Right. Yes, we didn't know. Mike, what can we do to help?

Well, at this point, I think that shining the light like you did to bring it, keeping the public awareness on it shows the coroner that we're committed. This is a new coroner. This is not the coroner that closed the case. So it's a new coroner. There's a new attorney general. And we're hopeful that if we continue to, we're still communicating with them.

We're getting information to them. We're trying to answer all their questions about why we think it should be reopened. And so the more people that can weigh in that can say, you know, as you had your experts say on the air, that this is not standard for... We had pathologists from the FBI say that they typically deal with deaths around the world,

and everybody shares information. If it helps figure out why someone's child died, why wouldn't you share everything? At this time, we're still looking for her blood sample. That's our biggest concern. We are. There is a statement. We don't have confirmation that perhaps one of the blood samples

was actually destroyed by the police. We're not sure. But I'm still hopeful that if we continue to keep this in the spotlight, that they will produce it. There were two blood samples, that there's a possibility that there's still a blood sample there. This is what I want. I want to know the truth.

I want justice for Jackie's family. I don't buy some hereditary heart ailment. Something happened on that cruise ship, and we are calling out for the case to be reopened by the coroner. I want to take this moment and thank our partner for making our Serious Sex M-132 program possible today. It's LegalZoom. As business owners out there, you know how important

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LegalZoom, thank you for helping business owners across America and for being our partner today. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.