Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Green Beret hero kills Taliban bomb-maker, now charged with murder

Episode Date: December 20, 2018

A U.S. Army special forces officer faces a military trial for murder after he admitted that he killed a Taliban bombmaker in Afghanistan after he concluded the man had made a bomb that killed two marines who served with him. Nancy Grace discusses the case against Major Matt Golsteyn with California lawyer & former US Air Force JAG officer Andrew Cherkasky, private investigator Vincent Hill, who served in the U.S. Army as a counter intelligence specialist, Atlanta criminal defense lawyer & former prosecutor Holly Hughes, psychologist & lawyer Dr. Brian Russell -- host of Investigation Discovery's "Fatal Vows" series, and Crime Stories producer Alan Duke. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Los Angeles is famous for the always captivating entertainment industry, some of the most famous sports teams, and incredibly expensive smoothies. But beneath the glamour, it's also a breeding ground for bizarre, historic, and unforgettable crimes. My name is Madison McGee. You might know me from my podcast Ice Cold Case, where for the last three years I've been investigating my father's murder. But now I've embedded myself into the LA Times crime beat to bring you not only some of the juiciest cases, but what it takes to be a gritty crime reporter in a giant metropolis.

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neighborhood. Find out about protection regarding babysitters, nannies, daycare, even protection online. It's the very best gift you can give any parent. Go to crimestopshere.com and join the Justice Nation. Crimestopshere.com. God willing. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Put us in your shoes, the shoes of your husband, who's been going through since. He was awarded the Silver Star, nominated for the Distinguished Service Cross, which is just below the Medal of Honor for heroic actions on the battlefield. He wanted to bring his men home.

What has he been through since? This situation is extremely challenging for our family. You know, Matt has a 12-year-old son. We have a brand-new baby. And he is, once again, you know, he was lucky enough to survive war and has come home to be ripped apart by his own government and the army leadership. So it is extremely disappointing and absolutely reprehensible what they have done to him. And for them to charge him with premeditated murder is almost laughable. And it would be laughable if it wasn't so serious and disgusting.

You are hearing Julie, the wife of former Green Beret Major Matthew Goldstein, and I am so mad I could chew a nail in half. Maybe I don't understand the facts, but from what I do understand, a Green Beret, Major Matthew Goldstein, now facing charges he killed a Taliban bomb maker. Well, I thought you got medals for that. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. I just don't understand exactly what's happening here. A Green Beret kills a Taliban bomb maker who is dedicated to destroying our country,ying our families, our way of life, our religion, our faith. And Major Matt Goldstein kills him.

It's war. Do I like it? No. But do I want my country, my home, my family, my church to be bombed by the Taliban? No, I don't. And now he, Major Matt Goldstein, is facing murder charges? Joining me, in addition to former prosecutor and now Atlanta criminal defense attorney Holly Hughes, Dr. Brian Russell, psychologist, lawyer, host of Investigation Discovery's hit series Fatal Vows, cop turned PI Vincent Hill, author of Playbook to a Murder,

Alan Duke and Jackie Howard joining me in the studios. A special guest is joining us right now a former u.s air force jag officer who did a stint at the pentagon california lawyer andrew shirkasky andrew you are a prosecutor as well and i'm don't know what you think about this i haven't asked you yet. What do you think? The rules of engagement are tricky, and the fog of war is real. But no matter what the circumstances, a summary execution is never lawful. And the facts that are out there right now make this look like it may have been a summary execution. Okay, I don't like anything you just said.

So let me just take it apart bit by bit. First of all, I don't really understand what you said, because in my world, I prosecute murders, rape, child molestation, child abuse, arson, and I evaluate every case and determine what's true and what's not. Who said that this was a summary execution? And what do you mean by summary execution? I mean, did he sneak up on the Taliban bomb maker and shoot him in the head? I mean,

isn't that what we want Gribere to do? The facts that we have right now, and this is based on the interview that he provided in 2016 in large part, but also in other interviews and documents that are public today, is that two days before the murder or the killing, excuse me, of this Afghani, there was an explosion that killed two Marines tragically. Over the next two days, there was continued firefights and efforts to try to find who was part of al-Qaeda and who had done the terrible act. Well, they captured apparently this al-Qaeda and who had done the terrible act. Well, they captured, apparently, this al-Qaeda suspected bomb maker, and they held him. Well, during the time that he was a detainee, he was ordered to be released by higher command. And it was after the fact that he was released, or shortened time to the time period that he was released, that Major Goldstein, frustrated with

the fact that he couldn't maintain detention of him and not in a combat situation hunted him down and killed him. That's the facts that appear on paper from a prosecutor's standpoint or from a prosecutor's perspective. Okay, hold on. Andrew, now, I don't even know how many, literally thousands of cases I've prosecuted and many more thousands I've investigated. Could you just, you got me drinking out of a fire hydrant.

Here's too much at once. Could you break it down for non-JAG people, which is basically military lawyers. Break it down in simple terms for all of us to understand. Okay. Dummy down, Andrew. Dummy down. lawyers break it down in in simple terms for all of us to understand okay dummy down andrew dummy down i know that's not in in your what you normally do tell me again what the facts are as we know them it seems that two marines were tragically killed when they were going door to door um doing their efforts to to fight against the insurgency. Within two days.

Killed how? An explosion? They were entering a home or entering a building and a bomb went off and it killed these two individuals. And that. Who made the bomb? Do we know who made the bomb? We think, based on what Major Goldstein tells us, we think that the person he killed made that bomb.

That's what he thinks. Oh, the Taliban bomb maker. Right. Okay. Okay. Let's just – let me go with that because you know where I'm going. Go ahead. I know where you're going.

So time passes a day or so, and I'm not the prosecutor on this case. I'm relying on public records and statements that I've made in the past. But a day or so passes, and they actually capture this guy. There's a lead, information that brings us to this guy. Major Goldstein sees the actual bomb-making material that he thinks links this guy to the bomb that killed our two Marines. He sees it where? Supposedly wherever they capture this guy.

Oh, okay, wait, wait, wait, wait whoa whoa whoa wait so the bomb making materials that goldstein believes was used to blow up two u.s officers is found in the taliban bomb makers possession okay so it's now no longer just, I think he did it. He sees, according to him, the bomb-making materials, just like with Timothy McVeigh. They pull him over because of a taillight, and boom, a lot of the bomb-making materials are clues in his car. Okay, Andrew Chigaski, and I'm not arguing with you because I know, you know this area of law better than me, so I accept that. Okay, go ahead. And I don't mind defending anybody in a situation like this. I'm just talking about the facts that seem to be out there right now, and it even seems that Major Goldstein had such a good relationship with locals that they may have given him some clues on this as well. Some corroboration that the

Taliban bomb maker was responsible for blowing two U.S. officers to tiny bits. Take a listen to Major Goldstein's father. It's been extremely difficult, Brian. You take a look at what has taken place over the past 10 years and to come to this state after they've already had aborting and everything else and found not guilty, to bring it up again is a very difficult challenge to undertake. What is your son's story? Well, my son is a young man of character. He was a graduate of West Point. It was a very trying time for us as parents when your children go to be in the military and spend all that time and training in the military to do proper service. And all the time we sit and wait back at home,

waiting to hear a phone call or something like that. Something may have happened to do what he has done over these past 10 years in his time in the military. We never did get that phone call, and we are very blessed for that. He's come back in one piece. And now to be going through this a second time when he's being threatened to be charged with murder and possible execution by our government, it's really hard to understand. Special guest joining me along with Vincent Hill, Dr. Brian Russell, and Holly Hughes,

Andrew Cherkasky, California lawyer, former U.S. Air Force JAG. Andrew, could you break it down? Tell me again what the facts are as we know them. So they capture him, and they're holding him, and they want to keep him. But the rules of engagement, the laws of armed conflict at the time said that without sufficient evidence, kind of what we know as probable cause, you weren't to keep someone for more than 24 hours. 24 hours? And he had reported this up to his chain of command.

You said the rules of engagement at the time. Are those still the rules of engagement? The rules of engagement at the time. Are those still the rules of engagement? The rules of engagement constantly change. So to say that... So no. The rules of engagement change from combat to combat, from month to month, from year to year, and it can even be three different ones applied at the same time from different commands. So the rules of engagement can be a very complicated set of rules to get through,

but there are certain things that are very clear. Well, let me ask you a question. I don't know really how to address you, sir. Is that appropriate? With me is California lawyer and former U.S. Air Force JAG officer Andrew Trzasky. Now, you say at the time the bomb maker could be held for 24 hours. Well, is there a different scenario where they could have held him for, let's just say, 72 hours or six months or however long it took?

Oh, absolutely. I mean, people are sat in Gitmo for a long time. So they can't put together a case in 24 hours, so they let him walk? Well, it's not that simple. It's that a captain sitting in the Helmand province of Afghanistan doesn't get to make the call about how long someone gets to be held for. So he's got to report that up his chain of command to his higher command, justify whatever request he has to hold on to someone, and he gets approved for it. Take a listen to this. The U.S. Army has charged with alleged murder a once-decorated Green Beret who received a Silver Star for Valor in Afghanistan,

but later admitted to killing a detainee during an interview with Fox News' Brett Baer in October 2016. Did you kill the Taliban bomb maker? Yes. Major Matthew Goldstein was a U.S. Special Forces soldier attached to a Marine unit that faced heavy fighting in the battle for Marja in February 2010. He later acknowledged during a polygraph when applying for a job at the CIA that he had killed an alleged Taliban member who they suspected of planting a bomb that killed two Marines, Sergeant Jeremy McQueary and Lance Corporal Larry Johnson.

You willingly offered up these details at the CIA, right? That's correct. And that's where it all started? Pretty much. According to a senior defense official, Goldstein told the CIA he killed the Afghan off base, placed his body into a pit, and burned it. But reached by telephone, Goldstein told Fox News, quote, I made a lawful engagement of a known enemy combatant on the battlefield.

You are hearing Fox reporter Jennifer Griffith reporting on what Goldstein says took place. Special guest joining me along with Vincent Hill, Dr. Brian Russell and Holly Hughes, Andrew Cherkasky, California lawyer, former U.S. Air Force JAG. Andrew, I just, I'm a little concerned about hiding the body in a pit and burying it because if it was a lawful engagement, why would he hide it? On the other hand, it's a Taliban bomb maker. And not only that, isn't it true there's already been a full and complete hearing? He was brought to what's called a board of inquiry, which is a decision by a board of three officers as to whether he should continue

serving, kind of like an employment case. He was found to be not responsible for one violation, but found to be responsible for another, and was decided to be kicked out of the army with a less than honorable discharge. What was he found responsible for? He was found responsible for a violation of what we call conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman. So that is a very vague type of allegation, but it can cover any sort of conduct. Hold on, hold on. I'm trying to take notes and I don't want to argue with you because I accept that you know more about this area of law than I do. So he was, after a full hearing, it was determined not that he committed a murder, but that he committed conduct unbecoming to an officer. Not quite.

The question of whether there was murder or not was not a question before this board of inquiry. It was a question of a violation of the law of armed conflict and a question of conduct on becoming an officer. It's not a trial. It's most similar to a human resources type of hearing that somebody might get. You know, to Holly, he's a former prosecutor, now criminal defense lawyer. Every other day I see and hear about and read about people in the military, at the Pentagon, in high positions overseas, partying, bringing in hookers, getting drunk, blah, blah, blah, having lovers, passing on state secrets to lovers, and nothing happens. Nothing. They get embarrassed, and they may move their post. Here you've got a guy that kills a Taliban bomb maker, and he's being tried for murder.

I'm having a hard time, you know, making sense of that. I understand completely, Nancy. I've been a prosecutor and a defense attorney, and I absolutely can see both sides of this story. But I think what we need to remember is war is different. This isn't a man walking down the street in, you know, Atlanta, where you and I live, who just pulls out a gun and shoots someone because he wants to take their purse. This is someone who we trained to kill. This is someone who we sent into battle for this very purpose, to defeat the enemy. And as horrible as the taking of life is, that's what we did with him. He did his job.

So as his defense attorney, I would be saying, how dare you? You trained him for this very thing. This is a man who he took out someone responsible for the killing of two young Marines, young men who volunteered, who signed up, who said, I will go and I will serve. And God bless every veteran, male and female out there who does it, who picks up a gun and lays down their life for our country. These two young men were blown to bits. And what Major Goldstein did was war.

Sadly, like you, I don't like it, but that's what we sent him there to do. Now I can put on my prosecutor's hat and say, what about due process? What about, you know, holding him and getting him to death? I didn't know that due process that is written in the U.S. Constitution hundreds of years ago by our founding fathers had any bearing on war, action, bombs, shooting, defending. You know, I want to remind everybody about two young men. One, 27. One, just 19 years old. Lance Corporal Larry M. Johnson, just 19. That's just eight years older than my baby, John David, and my baby girl, Lucy. 19.

Dead. Sergeant Jeremy R. McQueary, just 27. Both of them blown into bits at a bazaar in southern Afghanistan. Think about it. Your baby blown to bits at a bazaar. Not in the middle of combat action, but at a bazaar. Hi, Nancy Grace here. Have you ever Googled yourself, your neighbors, somebody at work, a crush?

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heard tossed around is absolutely, I don't even have a word for it. It is just so disgusting. Absolutely. We have had, you know, this is extremely challenging and it is rage inducing, but it is also very humbling to feel the love and support from all over this country, from the people who support him and know him and who have served with him. And I want to thank the families of Jeremy and Larry, who are the two Marines who did not come home because I am lucky enough to have my husband and I will have my husband and they are not home with their families, their wives their girlfriends their moms their sisters a green beret major matthew goldstein now facing charges he killed

a taliban bomb maker i'm nancy grace this is crime stories thank you for being with us special guests joining me along with vincent, Dr. Brian Russell and Holly Hughes, Andrew Tchaikovsky, California lawyer, former U.S. Air Force JAG, Major Matthew Goldstein now facing charges he killed a Taliban bomb maker. Vincent Hill, former cop turned P.I., Army counterintelligence specialist. Weigh in, Vincent. Yeah, Nancy, I'm just bef, Army counterintelligence specialist. Why are you in, Vincent? Yeah, Nancy, I'm just befuddled by the whole thing. Like you said, I mean, at the end of the day, this was a bomber.

If you think back to 1998, there was a guy with the last name Bin Laden. May he rot in hell. But since we didn't, a lot of people died since we didn't stop them back in 98. So I don't want to say something that may come back to get me in trouble later, Nancy, but you know. You know what? What? I can't say that. You know what? I'll just say it myself. I don't want this guy prosecuted. I think it's wrong. I think it's wrong that we ask them to protect us and he kills a Taliban bomb maker because he sees the bomb equipment. The locals tell him that was the bomb maker.

There's enough to hold him in detention as the bomb maker that took U.S. lives. So he killed him. To Dr. Brian Russell, psychologist, lawyer, host of Investigation Discovery's hit series, Fatal Vows. Okay, Dr. Brian, hit me. Tell me how wrong I am. I'm braced. I'm actually glad that we're talking about this because this is a good context for people listening to learn something that they can use when they go to the ballot box in the next presidential election. There are some administrations who believe that the military is really just sort of a law enforcement agency,

and that when we catch a person on the battlefield who has killed a couple of our guys, that person is more like a criminal defendant who's entitled to the kinds of rights that we afford to criminal defendants here. That's how the Obama administration treated this stuff. Basically, during the Obama years, the administration would rather err on the side of letting this guy go, letting him kill a couple more of our guys, or maybe a bunch more of our guys, than having the New York Times write an article

about how we were being too mean to our detainees and holding them too long without enough due process. And then you have administrations like the one we have now that understand that the purpose of the military is to kill people and break stuff when they're threatening United States interests someplace in the world. And if I'm President Trump, I'm pardoning this guy. And I think that that's what President Trump will do because it's absolutely absurd. Let me jump in right there because to me, murder is not about Obama, Barack Obama, or Donald Trump. It is not about politics.

I don't care who's sitting in the White House. I find problems with every politician that makes it that far. Everybody complains about Trump. Maybe they're right. Well, everybody complained about Hillary. Maybe they're right. They're probably all right. I mean, if you make it that far in politics, you know there's something way wrong with you, okay?

So I'm not saying that this has anything to do with Barack Obama or Trump because I don't believe anything any of them say. But I know this. My dad was a veteran that gave up a basketball scholarship and went halfway around the world, first time away from his mommy ever, to fight for our country. He never did finish college because it was all thrown, derailed. And I don't want to see a veteran like this guy, Major Matt Goldstein, prosecuted.

Now, I want to go back to Andrew Tchaikovsky, who I must say knows a lot more about this scenario than I do. And that pains me to say that, but it's true. Another thing that I do know, Andrew, is that parents of Marines all across the country are supporting Major Matt Goldstein. And if they're supporting him, why shouldn't we? Well, I don't think that that's something that I can answer why we should or shouldn't. What I'm saying is that from an independent perspective, and I'm a defense attorney now. I defend military members every day. That's all I do.

That's what my law firm is set up to do. Well, give me your best defense, Andrew. Give me your best defense. My best defense is that it was the fog of war at the time and that Major Goldstein at the time truly believed that this person presented an imminent threat and needed to execute the mission in order to proceed. The facts don't support that as they are right now. But that's the best defense if that can be made. Listen. A senior U.S. defense official confirmed to Fox News the Army's Criminal Investigation Command reopened the investigation based on new evidence that includes the Green Beret's public statements.

The Defense Department's inspector general investigated the Army's original handling of the case, which found not enough evidence to prosecute Goldstein after a six-day hearing. California Congressman Duncan Hunter, a former Marine who served in Iraq, has championed Goldstein's case. He wrote the following letter to Army Chief General Mark Milley, quote, Goldstein is an American hero, a true warrior, in fact. Why the Army is hellbent on destroying a combat hero's career is truly astonishing. I'm confident that Army CID has more important things to do than investigate Goldstein again. And you both have the ability to fix this stupidity. What is it like going from war hero to accused war criminal?

Are you angry? No. It has been incredibly painful and very difficult. Over the last year of these years, everyone who served with me stood by me. And so it's over and it's time to move on. Sources tell me that when Goldstein admitted killing a man in cold blood on television, the army investigators had no choice but to reopen the case. Major Goldstein claims that strict rules of engagement forced him to release the alleged Taliban bomb maker who had been fingered by an Afghan informant and that he had no choice to act as he did. But those to whom I've

spoken here at the Pentagon say he did have a choice. And now Major Matthew Goldstein has been charged with premeditated murder and could face the death penalty. You are hearing Fox reporter Jennifer Griffith. Take a listen to what Major Goldstein's wife, Julie, says. You know, my message is that Matt was cleared of wrongdoing in 2015. We have moved on with our lives. We have moved. We have had a new baby. We have, you know, moved on.

We are waiting for someone to do the right thing. It is time for someone in Army leadership to crawl out from the blanket of anonymity under which they hide and take responsibility for this and step in and do the right thing. Did you find the suspected Taliban bomb maker? We did capture a fighter and then ID material, weapons. We recovered radios, the small icon radios that the Taliban were using. so quite a bit of material but at the time you think this is the guy yeah absolutely after he was detained the suspected bomb maker refused to speak to investigators because of strict rules of engagement they were ordered to release him he construed as a law enforcement mindset there's limits on how long you can hold guys so we would

pull these guys out we'd say clearly these are enemy combatants. These are Taliban. These are bad dudes. We'd pull them out, but we wouldn't have any place to hold them. So eventually we'd let them back, and they would cause terror to the community again. Right. In fact, you just really realize quickly you make things worse. It is an inevitable outcome that people who are cooperating with coalition forces, when identified,

will suffer some terrible torture or be killed. Shortly after releasing the Taliban detainee, Goldstein took matters into his own hands. Did you kill the Taliban bomb maker? Yes. You are hearing from our friends, Brett Baer at Fox News on a show entitled How We Fight. Matthew Goldstein, Major Matthew Goldstein,

explaining the circumstances leading up to him killing a Taliban bomb maker, beginning with the capture of the bomb maker. Now, this is one thing we haven't touched on. Joining me in addition

to Vincent Hill, Dr. Brian Russell and Holly Hughes, Alan Duke and Jackie Howard, special guest California lawyer, former Air Force JAG officer Andrew Tricasky, is that if he is convicted, Major Matt Goldstein can get the death penalty. He could die for killing an enemy combatant. Well, it hasn't been decided that it would be a capital case, but absolutely, if he had a premeditated murder, he faces life in prison, at least.

Let me ask you this. Who is going to be his jury? very experienced, high-ranking individuals who have the experience of what war looks like, what battle looks like, and it would be similar to the civilian process, but generally higher educated and higher ranking than you would typically see in a civilian jury. Well, let me understand this. So he's being charged with murder in military court, not our court? That's right. A military court martial is very similar to a federal criminal trial, but there are uniquenesses. Take a listen to Phil Stackhouse, Goldstein civilian lawyer. His patrol, it was approximately a 50 man plus patrol, was under attack by a superior enemy force. And Matt engaged the enemy directly, calling in indirect fire, calling in air support,

deploying Gustav Recoil-less rifle rockets at the enemy. It was a heroic battle. And Matt was recognized for that. And it has absolutely nothing to do with the allegations that have been made against him. Yet the Army, with no due process rights afforded to Matt, rescinded the Distinguished Service Cross that the Secretary of the Army had actually signed and then revoked a Silver Star Medal. Again, it had nothing to do with the allegations that are facing him today. In Matt's particular case, there were three different sets of rules that he was following, ISAF rules, U.S. Forces Afghanistan rules, and Special Operations Task Force rules. So he had three different masters that he was serving at the time. He wasn't allowed to keep people detained for more than 24 hours. And another very important piece for the public to

understand is with this investigation started by the Criminal Investigation Division of the Army, a narrative was put out in the very early stages that Matt released this Taliban bomb maker, walked him back to the house that he was operating on, and assassinated him in his house. And that was never said. And the Army repeated that narrative consistently through that investigation until Matt's administrative hearing, when they had a CID agent, a criminal investigation division agent, on the witness stand under oath and admitted that that was a lie in the investigation and they never corrected it. The prosecutor in this case has intimated to me that they have new

evidence, but this allegation happened in 2010, in February of 2010. The Army became aware of it in 2011 and it's been investigated the entire time. What new evidence could there possibly be from 2010? And that's the question that they'll have to answer. You know, parents of Marines all across the country are outraged and dumbfounded that a man who avenged Marines killings, killing a Taliban bomb maker is now being tried for murder. Now, David Kleinschmidt, the stepfather of one of the two young men blown up at an Afghan bazaar. Sergeant Jeremy R. McQueary thinks it's crazy that a decorated Green Beret Special Forces commando, Major Matthew Goldstein, could actually face the death penalty. Listen

to Goldstein in his original interview. Years later, he started talking about his attack on the bomb maker in a job interview with the CIA. You willingly offered uphelds at the CIA, right? That's correct. And that's where it all started? Pretty much. Goldstein, who had received a silver star for valor in Afghanistan, now found himself accused of murder and conspiracy. What followed was the Army's version of a thorough police investigation. I told the Army CID investigator, I don't know anything. I don't remember anything. I never begrudged investigators or even my commanders for doing an investigation. If they're concerned about my judgment or my behavior, then I would expect that they would look into it.

Ultimately, after a review by a military tribunal, no charges were filed. But Goldstein was removed from the special forces. His silver star was taken away. And he was denied a position at the CIA. What is it like going from war hero to accused war criminal? Are you angry? No. It has been incredibly painful and very difficult. Over the last years, everyone

who served with me stood by me. And so it's over and it's time to move on. Well, I hear what you're saying, Andrew Joukowsky, and I appreciate it. I'm actually not arguing with you because I accept, you know, more in this field than I do. But, you know, when something, as I always say, when something doesn't feel right, it's not right. To Dr. Brian Russell, you hear the parents of these two slain Marines, these two really boys, one's 19, one's 27, just in shock that Goldstein's being prosecuted. How are the families of Marines supposed to take this? Well, it's like you just said, something feels wrong about this. And I'll tell you what it is. What's wrong is to send young Americans into combat and then tie their hands such that they have to watch the enemy who just killed a couple of their friends walk away to do it again.

It's the same thing, this is very reminiscent of Ignacio Ramos, remember him? He was the border patrol agent that we prosecuted and sentenced to 11 years in prison for having shot a drug smuggler on our border in the butt back in the early 2000s. and President Bush ended up commuting his sentence, just like Trump needs to pardon this guy, because the wrong here was on the part of the administration, not on the part of Goldstein. Well, according to Joukowsky, this was a premeditated murder. I disagree. Alan Duke, let me ask you a question.

My buddy joining me from California. Why did you join the military when I was about nine or ten years old the Vietnam War was going on and there was the song that I think it was on the Ed Sullivan show that I saw it was the ballad of the Green Beret Barry Sadler and I got goosebumps I'm getting them right now thinking about puts put silver wings on my son's chest just just like your dad. My dad served in World War II. And, you know, despite Vietnam and everything, I was really interested in that, having those silver wings. So I turned 18 that week. I was at the recruiter's office, joined the U.S. Army, and eventually went to airborne school and got those jump wings, the silver wings on my chest. Let's go out with this. Fighting soldiers from the sky.

Fearless men who jump and die. Men who mean just what they say. The brave men of the Green Beret. Nancy Gray's Crime Stories signing off. Goodbye, friend. Up on their chest. Grace Crime Stories signing off. Goodbye, friend. Los Angeles is famous for the always captivating entertainment industry, some of the most famous sports teams, and incredibly expensive smoothies.

But beneath the glamour, it's also a breeding ground for bizarre, historic, and unforgettable crimes. My name is Madison McGee. You might know me from my podcast Ice Cold Case, where for the last three years I've been investigating my father's murder. But now I've embedded myself into the LA Times crime beat to bring you not only some of the juiciest cases, but what it takes to be a gritty crime reporter in a giant metropolis. From LA Times Studios comes its latest series,

LA Crimes. From deep dives into the Menendez brothers to conversations about why Bravo TV This is an iHeart Podcast.