Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Gruesome Court Images Reveal Body of Teen Celeste Rivas, D4VD Fights to Stop Trial

Episode Date: July 23, 2026

The preliminary hearing for D4vd (David Anthony Burke) continues in the death 14-year-old Celeste Rivas Hernandez. D4vd faces multiple serious charges, including: First-degree murder with special circumstances (lying in wait, murder for financial gain, and killing a witness) Continuous sexual abuse of a child under 14 Unlawful mutilation of human remains He has pleaded not guilty to all charges.     Joining Nancy Grace today: Randolph Rice -  Criminal Defense & Civil Attorney at Rice Law. Former Prosecutor in the State's Attorney Office for Baltimore County   website: ricelawmd.com, IG, FB, X: @ricelawmd  Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst,  Author: "Deal Breaker, "  featured in  "Paris in Love" on Peacock and "The Valley, Persian Style" on Bravo,  Netflix and Hulu.  Host: "On The Couch with Dr. Bethany Marshall" Website: drbethanymarshall.com, Instagram FB & TikTok: drbethanymarshall, Twitter:@DrBethanyLive Steve Fischer  -  Missing Persons Private Investigator, Search & Rescue Specialist, Owner of Search Investigations, www.searchinvestigations.org, Twitter: @SF_Investigates Joseph Scott Morgan  - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", YouTube Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan", @JoScottForensic Taylor Parise - Reporter, Los Angeles Magazine  Dave Mack -  Investigative Reporter, 'Crime Stories' See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed human. There's no shortcut for saving time, but saving money is simple. Just combine your car and home insurance with Bel Air Direct and save. Get a quote at bellair direct.com. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Bombshell tonight in the D4VD courtroom, aka David Anthony Burke, it is grim. gruesome court images reveal the body of teen girl Celeste Rivas as D4VD David Anthony Burks

fights his best tooth and claw to stop this trial. Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime stories. I want to thank you for being with us. 14-year-old Celeste found decomposing in the trunk of D4VD, David Anthony Burke's Tesla. Who in this office is and was leaking information about this 14-year-old child and her remains? It's a violation of a court order. The medical examiner's office was leaking information. David was, did not take his eyes away from these photos.

He also kind of gave me the sense that he was very relaxed in court, almost like he was kind of sitting in English class or something. you know, just following along with the teacher. So, you know, he would sit back in his chair a little bit. He would, he would lean forward sometimes. And, and, you know, his mannerisms with his attorney, they were interesting. She would, Blair Burke would rub his back. They would smile at each other.

But again, throughout the showing of these graphic photos, he didn't move. He didn't flinch. He just stared at the screen. We saw a closed bag with lots of liquid and blood and just insects sort of around it. And then we would see the bag opened with her. her arms and legs bloody. And it was bad.

That's investigative journalist Lauren Conlon on X outside the courthouse, and we're taking you straight back into the courtroom and the very latest in the D4VD trial proceedings. But after hearing her description of what is being seen in the courtroom, I want to remind everyone what this is about. It is about Celeste Rivas. This little girl. This girl, Celeste Rivas, was killed, disarticulated, and put in trash bags.

Like you leave it out on the street for the garbage guys to pick up? Yeah, you think that's the end of it? Well, it's not. You cannot put out a child in trash bags dead. and think no one is going to do a thing. Well, we are straight out to the courthouse, joining us now from L.A. Investigator Reporter with the L.A. magazine, Taylor Perrease.

Taylor, what is happening in the courtroom? What have we seen so far? We've seen a lot of new information in the courtroom. We've seen a lot of morbid pictures inside the courtroom. even season journalists are looking away from the screen because it's too difficult to look at. Whereas David Anthony Burke is seen staring straight at the screen, very casual, not even flinching. Not even flinching. Okay, just stop right there.

Did I hear Lauren Conlin state that as these images, all we can see outside the courtroom are sketch artist images and you can't make heads or tails of it. that's a bad sign. I'm going to go to Joe Scott Morgan on that, what that means. But the female defense attorney is like stroking the four of these back as these images are being shown in the courtroom? Yeah, Blair Burke's defense attorney has been very comforting to David while he sits there in court. And as you said, the images that are shown in court, I've been working alongside Lauren Conlin. She described them as unrecognizable. Even Beth Silverman, the prosecutor. She had to ask what she was looking at when they were showing images of blessed remains. Did you hear that to Dr. Bethany Marshall joining us out of this jurisdiction

psychoanalyst, author of Deal Breaker? She's a star of a hit new podcast on the couch with Dr. Bethany Marshall. She's on Peacock. She's on Bravo. You can find her at Dr. Bethany Marshall.com. Dr. Bethany massaging his back while the rest of the courtroom is looking at distorted images of this child in a trash bag? Nancy, it speaks to a collusion between Blair Burke and DV4D. And that collusion is based upon one thing, money. It tells me that this particular attorney can be bought for comfort, right? He's paying her a lot of money to stroke his back. And on the other hand, he's sitting there like he's in an English class, which also tells me that there's lack of cause and effect thinking.

There's lack of a sense of impending punishment or doom. And this is a trait. I do not know DV4D. I've never analyzed or seen him. But this would be a trait of sociopathy where you feel you are in charge of the situation when in fact, the situation. when in fact the situation is in charge of you. We're showing video right now taken from D4VD on Twitch of him and Celeste. Now, in this video, she is a minor.

Now, you're hearing what was done to this child and her body. Randolph Rice joining me, a veteran criminal defense attorney, founder of Rice law, former prosecutor as well at Rice Law MD.com. Randolph Rice, thank you for being with us. That is not a leg to stand on. I didn't want to know, see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil. And some would argue the financial guy, the adult in this scenario had about six million reasons to stay dumb, listen. Now first up, his financial manager spoke about everything that David had to lose, basically,

talking about how big his deals were, how much he was going to get for each album, which was like a $3 million guarantee, but could earn him anywhere upwards of $6 million. And that that was per album, which that was really important because they were trying to lay the foundation of what he had to lose if his relationship, or alleged relationship, I should say, with Celeste was exposed, which that's of course what the state is arguing here as motive, right? That she was going to expose their relationship. He didn't want to lose his fame, his celebrity, his money. So this now illustrates how much money really was on the line

and what he would have to lose if that relationship was exposed. That is YouTube, Annie Elise. So Randolph Rice, a pecuniary or money interest that's cold to pretend you don't know. And I don't mean about the relationship. I mean about the relationship. the death. How can you pretend you don't know? Everybody that walked in the house said, what is that smell? Nancy, this is great for the defense right now. Remember, this is a preliminary hearing. The prosecution is supposed to be putting on their best witnesses. And now we've got a

witness who's essentially lying. They've said two different things. They can't be believed moving forward. And apparently they also have a financial interest for testifying or saying whatever they're saying. So this is going to be used against these two witnesses or this, witness at the trial. We are also learning, and I'm going to circle back to you on your novel unique theory that this is going well for the defense, because should I believe you or my lion eyes, what I am seeing is happening in the courtroom, blood on the back seat of D4VD's Tesla, and I think it was 11 air fresheners thrown around.

We know that Celeste was found inside the front. trunk. However, when they also lit up the third row of seeds, lit up like Christmas morning, meaning that it indicates at one point she was inside that third row. They also said that there were 11 air fresheners found inside the Tesla, obviously to conceal the odor of decomposing remains. That is YouTube, Annie Elise. Out to Taylor Peres joining us there at the courthouse, investigative reporter with LA Magazine, 11 air fresheners. A jury will do a backflip. Yeah, 11 air fresheners in the car, presumably to cover up an odor. Most of them were found in the center console, but one of the air fresheners actually morbidly said love is in the air.

Tell me about the blood found on the back, the third seat of the Tesla, Taylor, Puerrease, how it lit up as Anna Elise just stated, like a Christmas tree or like the night sky. She gave two comparisons. Obviously, from the use of luminal or some type of alternative light form. So explain to me what was heard in the courtroom about that third seat of the 4vDs, Tesla. So there were a lot. So in court, they were calling it reddish stains.

Those stains, specifically the stains on the mat and on a Tesla or on the charging cord, were presumptive positive for blood, but reddish stains found all over the Tesla all throughout it, including the vaccine. Steve Fisher joining us, a private investigator, the charging court and the mats, those are not in the car. Those are in the garage, correct?

Correct. The garage had these rubber mats placed over it because it was primarily being used as like a game room slash gym. So it had these rubber mats. It had like a mesh texture. to them and the charging cord, you know, with Tesla. Okay, I got it. So that's not in the car. Dave Mack joining me, Crime Stories, investigative reporter.

Dave, what was found in the car? I'm trying to determine the blood evidence in the car. This thing, Nancy, that could come out of this was what is being referred to as the blood on the third row seating inside this. Tesla Model X. This was something that just blew up. It's been mentioned, you know, that it lit up like the night sky. The bloodstains that were found throughout the inside of that car coupled with, Nancy, you mentioned earlier, the air fresheners, you know, these air fresheners, there were 11 of them, and they were tucked into the back seat into the little, a folder there, a pocket, so to speak.

So they would be out of sight, but they would still provide air freshener. capabilities. But again, blood throughout the inside of the car, specifically, though, as you ask, it's that third row seating that lit up. Steve Fisher, if you could describe the inside of the Tesla to the best of your ability. So it's got a second row of two like captains type seats, and then it's got a third row, kind of like bench seat. And I believe that that's where they're saying that they found the straight seven-th through luminal of blood that had been cleaned up. Eating well shouldn't be complicated, but somehow it turns into recipes, prep, cleanup, and half your Sunday gone.

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Factor, Canada's number one meal delivery service. There's no shortcut for saving time, but saving money is simple. Just combine your car and home insurance with Bel Air Direct and save. Get a quote at bellair direct.com. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. You know, Joe Scott Morgan, I hardly know where to start right now. You know, I've got two children, John David and Lucy

they're 18 they're about to go to college none of that will ever happen for Celeste never ever and did you know Joe Scott did you know her parents

had been in the courtroom and they've taken a lot of heat including from me why didn't your report her missing why didn't you look for her harder why was she getting ordered up like Chinese food or a pizza and sent over to his house

and an Uber I've given them a hard time but the reality is this, their girl is dead. She will never go to her senior prom. She'll never do all those endless college applications. She'll never get to go out on her own. They can't watch her grow and turn to the incredible person she's meant to be.

Instead, Joe Scott, they are in this courtroom looking at the images that Taylor Perrese has described. Images that are so bizarre, you can't even tell what they are Joe Scott. Before Joe Scott starts talking, this is Joseph Scott Morgan. He is a death investigator, a renowned death investigator with over 10,000 death scenes under his belt. He is a star of a hit podcast. Bodybags with Joe Scott Morgan. He's the author of Blood Beneath My Feet, and he is a professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University with a new world-class criminal procedure facility. I have personally toured. He is who I trusted to help me recreate several murder scenes. That's who this is.

Okay, Joe Scott. What's happening? Well, I've got to tell you, reflecting back to what our friend Lauren said earlier, where she said that it appeared as though that he was sitting in English class. Let me tell you what class he missed. He missed biology. Because the moment that this young girl, and I'm saying girl, her life was taken, decomposition started immediately. There's not enough air fresheners in the world to stem what was going on. and also what people in this courtroom, including her parents, have been subjected to, Nancy.

I've been hearing reports from friends of mine that have been there as well, and they're saying they're using terms like unrecognizable that you can't make it out. So the family and the court is taking a look at this, and they're trying to make heads or tails of it. Now, one of the big questions that has come up relative to the degree to which she was traumatized fatally, remember we've talked about that stab wound or the sharp force injury that's in the right upper quadrant of the abdomen. People are saying how in the world, how in the world was a medical examiner able to figure this out? Because she, and that's indicative of the fact that she is in such an advanced state of decomposition. And that started immediately. And then it was further exacerbated when she was

placed into this Tesla, which, as we know, in science, heat speeds things up. Okay, so she's been going down, her mortal remains have been going down this road for some time. It is not, it is not surprising that her body was in this state of decomposition in that frunk in multiple bags, because she has been so in death, has been so further mistreated over and over and over again. Today was an absolutely crushing day in the preliminary hearing, the evidence that was put on by the prosecutor was absolutely damned, showing the images of Celessa's decomposed body in the trunk of the Tesla and the parents were sitting there. And it was just absolutely horrible. but they wanted to show strength and they're here for Celeste. He was asked if he could identify any facial features and he said no, it was so badly

decomposed because of skin slippage is what he called it. We also saw a close-up of her hands. We saw the fingers that were amputated, you know, we saw the the finger as well from the other hand. and yeah it was it was tough but again he he had his his eyes just glued to the screen what we saw in that courtroom was nothing short of despicable pure evil we saw images of what was in that bag in the front trunk of that Tesla we saw everything and it was horrendous it was absolutely horrendous the stuff that we saw I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy and the fact that Celeste's parents were in the courtroom for that was just just even more shocking and breaks your heart that they have to go through this.

That is on YouTube. That's Trapp More Ross. Apparently, everything happening in the courtroom was sickening. So, you know, to you, Joseph Scott Morgan, death investigator, the images are so upsetting, but let's talk about the probative value. You and I have both been in a lot of courtrooms. Yeah. When you're standing in front of a jury and you can't start crying and you can't act like you're sick to your stomach, you have got to keep going and keep it together. Like right now, what are they seeing?

You heard Taylor Perrice from the LA magazine trying to describe it, but forensically, probatively, what is the court seeing? What is it? Okay. That breaks out two ways. Let me kind of shed a little light here. So what they're seeing is the overall images of her remains in this vehicle. And one of the things you have to begin to factor in here, talking about probative value,

and this is going to be essential here, Nancy, since we have this body rendered into multiple elements, okay, we'll put it that way. One of the questions scientifically we have to ask is, how did that happen? The key here is not just seeing the overall picture, but then as her remains are examined at the M.E.'s office, they're going to be looking at these locations where some type of tool was used in order to render her down with these individual components. Okay. So what that means is if there is any type of sharp instrument, saw, whatever it is, if they can get that implement, and match it up to the tool marks that are going to be on the end of the bones. And I'm telling you, I know this is very hard to hear, all right. That will explain how she wound up that way. Now, putting that tool in someone's hands is something completely different. But they have to appreciate all of these different components, how she was found.

And most of all, Nancy, the court has to appreciate how she was treated, how her remains were treated. her remains were treated in death. Put them up, please. We know that D4VD, David Anthony Burke, probably under an assumed name, ordered not one, but two chain saws. Okay. Think about it.

If I can get my hands on those chainsaws and look at the serration edge of it, can I compare that exact serration to her body? can't I mark up the tool markings to prove those chainsaws were used in this disarticulation? Yeah, within a reasonable scientific certainty you can. And that's why it's so bloody important to get their hands on this other saw and to try to do it. Because beyond that, they can take a look at the saws that he was alleged to have purchased, Nancy, and they can do kind of a qualification where they'll say, yeah, it could be consistent with this particular

brand. But how much more powerful is this, Nancy, from a physical evidence standpoint, which I know that you're well aware of, if you can take the actual tool itself and marry this up. That's a big part of this investigation. What's the status of any instrument, not just chainsawls, but what any instrument that may have been used in order to facilitate what happened here? This is the first time that they've heard this evidence in detail. And they're horrified. There was an image of Celeste's torso and her head in the trunk of the car. And the prosecutor had to ask what it was.

Because you could not tell it was a head. It was absolutely, it was deplorable. And so they're at a loss of words. Mercedes just put her head down and started crying. and she couldn't look up. And she was warned by the district attorney. Beth Silverman told her in advance these images are coming. And I told her that she didn't have to be in the courtroom for this part of the hearing,

but she said, I want to be here to show support for Celeste. And she just put her head down and just started crying. That is Patrick Seinfeld, the Celeste Rivas family attorney, and questioning him was our friend Lauren Collin on X from L.A. magazine. Dave Mack question. The detective was on the stand because the prosecutor can't just start showing video and showing images and narrate them herself. You have to have a witness on the stand that is very well-versed, fluent.

I guarantee you they practiced this presentation many times before the detective took the stand. but the detective was asked Dave Mack, was he not, about why the body bag, she was actually stored part of her anyway, in a full-on body bag that is used by medical examiner's office and apparently was ordered on Amazon, idiot. But why wasn't the body bag kept as evidence? You know, Nancy, that body bag that you're talking about actually contained, just the torso and head. And when this is the shocking part of all of it is when that front was opened, the zipper was partially down and those cops saw this right away.

But what Detective Byers was talking about on the stand, about the remains found inside the bag and having to get rid of certain things because of the body fluids and the decomposings. and the decomposition that had taken place inside that body bag. It's a shocking thing what they were describing on the stand, the body bag as well as the additional trash bags that were used for other body parts. It's just from the day one has been shocking, but on the stand sharing these types of very specific things about what was taking place with this child's body.

after she was gone is just despicable. Taylor Peres, what about the zipper and the handles on those bags? So while the bag itself was disposed of, the investigator did say that they preserved the zipper and the handles. So I'm not sure if they're going to be doing more testing on those items, but hopefully we'll know soon. Eating well shouldn't be complicated, but somehow it turns into recipes,

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factormeals.ca. Factor, Canada's number one meal delivery service. There's no shortcut for saving time. But saving money is simply. Just combine your car and home insurance with Bel Air Direct and save. Get a quote at bellairdirect.com. Crime stores with Nancy Grace. On the stand, Byers was asked why the body bag was not kept, and he talked about the risk, the hazard of all the bodily fluids and decomp. Well, you know what?

That's why you have a hazmat suit. That's why you have the hat, the face masks, the gloves, the da, the da, da. why in the H-E-Double-L didn't you keep the body bag? I hope I'm wrong. I hope I find out that that's wrong because the jury's going to want to see

that body bag. You know, sometimes pictures are not worth a million words. You want the real thing. So, you know, apparently there was more than one body bag, so maybe they kept the other one, but

please, put it in a bag and store it for Pete's sake. I mean, they deal with dead bodies, they deal with bodily fluids day in, day out. Joe Scott Morgan, they deal with bodily fluids and dead bodies every day. Why throw out important evidence? I don't know. It's, we actually have devices at crime labs and in morg's called evidence dryers, and it knocks down all of humidity. I cannot, I'm not buying this thing about biohazards and all this nonsense. There's all kinds of things that we retain because of their evidentiary value.

And let me, if you like that one, let me give you one more. You know, the thing about the body bag itself, and Nancy, this is the first case I've ever covered in my career involving the evidentiary value of a body bag. This is something that was sought out, purchased for an express purpose. Did you know this thing has handles on it? Every body bag has a handle on it. And so what do you get from that? You get touched DNA.

So I hope that they, if they did toss these, I hope they went to great lengths in order to swab the exterior of this thing, swab those handles to see who put their hands on this bag and any of the underlying surfaces. You know, as it's being lifted and taken and transferred into locations, this could be a problem. I'm shocked that they're saying they discarded these items. I've been around a lot of bad smelling items. Joe Scott. Joe Scott, look at the screen. Look at the screen.

Did you see that party scene, which I think is within the D4VD, David Anthony Burke home? Can you imagine your child? And she met D4VD when she was still wearing Hello Kitty T-shirts and paraphernalia. And she's in that dr. dr. imagine your child up in that? I mean, look, Dr. Bethany Marshall, look at your screen. Look at all that hard liquor.

Nancy, the disrespect for Celeste's life is so far reaching. When I hear about the body bags being discarded, I found myself wondering, is law enforcement minimizing her death? Just as the financial guy minimized her death, just as her parents, and I know they're going through severe trauma and stress right now, didn't really hunt her death. down to find out where she was. Young women get discarded every day. And you know what else, Nancy? There's a ripple effect to every victim's life, loss of life, meaning that many female victims go on to become victim advocates. They start to educate first responders. They write books.

They become international human rights attorneys. They lead the world in terms of advocacy later in their life, women are remarkable. So not only was Celeste's life cut short in terms of her family life, potential education, the beauty of childhood, but our world is at a loss now because we've lost another potential advocate who could be training first responders. And can I, can I just ask you about the evidence? What about the air fresheny? at least 11 of them. You heard Taylor Perrice, Dave Mack, Joe Scott Morgan describing all the blood on that third seat, the body of this child in multiple bags, and they just, there's some air fresheners back there.

And, Nancy, not only that, all the blood in the garage was on the mats, the brick floor, a rowing machine, tarps, the Tesla charger cable, trash bags containing bloodstained wipes and fabrics. So her blood was intermingled with a pile of garbage in the garage. Okay. He did not begin to order chainsaws until weeks after he killed her, according to testimony. So she was languishing, rotting in that garage. while kids traipsed in and out. Then she was thrown in the front, perhaps dismembered already or in the back seat of the car.

So how many times were these body parts transferred from place to place? How long did he contemplate? How long did he contemplate how he was going to get rid of her? What methods he would use? There are a lot of, there's a lot of purchasing involved. there are a lot of people involved. Apparently his mother handled his finances. What did she think about all those Amazon purchases, Nancy?

A rationalization is a precursor to every great crime. According to testimony, the financial guy rationalized that it was okay for DV4D to date Celeste. Those partygoers that you just showed with all that alcohol in the room with a minor, rationalized that it was okay for her to be there. And I would be so curious, what were the stories all these people told themselves? What were the rationalizations? Oh, you know what? Her parents are not in contact with her.

So it's okay that she's in that house. I mean, that's the untold story as well. Perhaps we'll get to at some point. I'm telling you, though, Bethany, what is the cue de grace, is the just throwing air fresheners? around the car to mask the stench of this

child's decomposing body. And I want to point out that Morgan Roth, Randolph Rice, veteran trial lawyer, he has not been charged. He's not suspected of any wrongdoing. In fact, under our jurisprudence,

failure to act is not a crime. I can see a murder go down and just turn the other cheek. Wash my hands of it like Pontius Pilate, and under our law, he cannot and will not be charged for guilty knowledge. Isn't that true, Randolph Rice? You're exactly right, Nancy. In most cases, there's obviously those very extreme situations where if you had some sort of knowledge beforehand and maybe you further that crime by doing some little thing, you could be charged,

but if it's just a, I knew about it and I didn't say anything, he's not facing any criminal charges. Just like the use of air fresheners to hide the stench of a decomposing body. Do we have additional premeditation showing wrongdoing? Taylor Peres joining us, investigative reporter. She's at the courthouse. She's with LA Magazine. Taylor, what can you tell me about probative evidence that David Anthony Burke intentionally took this child out of,

the country for what I'd like to know. Yeah, so Benjamin Greger testified a lot about David not knowing what his finances were. His mother handled that. He didn't know how much he was making. But it did come out in court that the London ticket was purchased with David's personal bank account that he did have access to. He also had a personal credit card. So he did have access to his own money. And I'm very curious about what exactly went on in London.

because we also know that he, D4VD, took her across state lines to Texas. And more, I think Vegas as well. We know that, according to prosecutors, there's a lot of talk about the morning after pill, about abortions. Was she taken out of the country or out of the jurisdiction for that procedure? I don't know, but I guarantee you we'll find out. We know her passport was discarded out in the middle of nowhere. Speaking of D4VD's mother, as Celeste's parents sit there and try to make heads and tells of these videos of their child's body, take a listen at what D4VD's mother's up to. What was disconcerting to me is that David Anthony Burke's mom is still pursuing an attorney for David.

its musical career. So apparently, the threat of a lifetime in jail or potential death penalty is not stopping him. He's pursuing his musical career like nothing happened. What in the world? That is Celeste Rivas family lawyer, Patrick Seinfeld, with Lauren Collin there at the courthouse. What? Taylor Peres, the mother at this juncture, reportedly, is hot on the tail of more music production by D4VD? Yeah, we learn that she is still seeking to find new entertainment representation for David.

We don't know if that's happened yet. Corroborating what we are just learning from Taylor Perrice, Dave Mack, what can you? you tell me about music being released to coincide with the beginning of this hearing? It was a shocking drop that happened all of a sudden. And Nancy, it happened as D4BD is in jail, awaiting trial, getting ready for this hearing this week. And all of a sudden, out of nowhere, it just pops up. it's actually an unreleased track. Marcessants, it's how it's pronounced,

but it was released briefly and then pulled back down. But, you know, there's nothing that goes away on the internet. Once it's out, everybody has access to it. And it's kind of a hidden thing. We don't know who put it out or, you know, when they actually got access to this song, Nancy. but fans believe that it is an unreleased song called I think she knows. But it popped up and went away fairly quickly as the hearing was beginning.

Jessica Morgan, I want you to look at an image I found on TikTok. Meaning speculate that the scar you were seeing, the red scar was obtained during Celeste murder and disarticulation. and apparently he may have drawn over it to make it look like a cross. Explain how that could have happened during her death. Nancy, one of the things that we hear about with the Celeste case is the fact that there are sharp instruments being used. And so we've covered this. You and I have covered cases in the past where we've had individuals that have been using sharp instruments. that are perpetrators that have injured themselves.

And this is quite plausible that that could be what you're seeing here. You know, because when you're dealing and you do, if you're talking about a rendering down of remains with a tremendous amount of blood, blood's very slick. And if you're using a sharp instrument, it creates that surface on there, it impedes your ability to firmly grip an instrument. And so you see, you see individuals that will cut themselves. Now, I can't look at that image and definitively say that it is a cut or some type of sharp instrument, but it's something that certainly could be entertained.

Well, we'd have to look at the date that this was posted to try to figure out if, in fact, they are connected. Okay, Randolph Rice, weigh in. Nancy, this case right now is not going well for the prosecution, and here is why. It is circumstantial at best, and they have been unable to connect this case, these facts and ever, to their who they think did this. And here's why. For example, the Amazon account. I have an Amazon account. My wife has access. My kids have access. I couldn't tell you who bought the, you know, dishwashing soap last week because it doesn't tell me who's the person clicking the button. And that's the problem the prosecution is going to have. Did Mr. Burke click the button

that bought all these things? I want to actually see his face as he is spewing this. Okay. You think it's going badly for the state right now. Ever the optimist, aren't you? I think, Nancy, that they're having a hard time right now. This is the best evidence they've got. It's not working for them. Oh, okay. Dr. Bethany Marshall, how crazy is he? It tells me how much hatred and contempt he had for Celeste while she was alive, which is a classic sign of domestic abuse. So not only was she allegedly killed by him, But I wonder how he treated her while she was alive. Did he toss her out and pull her back in? Did he degrade her, demean her?

All the classic signs of abuse? I would say yes. So she was tortured in life as well as in death. To Taylor, Peres, Taylor, what next? This is just a preliminary hearing. This is just a tiny sliver of the evidence the state has. Have you heard rumblings about, a potential plea deal?

I have not heard rumblings of a plea deal, both the prosecution of the defense are feeling very confident right now, it seems like, and we'll find out shortly, is it going to go to trial? Just got Morgan, I'm not sure how Randolph Rice is spinning this out to suggest it's going well for the defense. I see it completely bass-acquards. Yeah, it is. You've got a tremendous amount of physical evidence here. you know, that and not just the physical evidence itself that they have. You know, I'm thinking about the blood right now in the car where they use what's referred to as a Castle Meyer test to identify those blood droplets. I think there were 11 of them. And then, of course, they applied Blue Star in there as well.

You know, and that car is tied back to him. And then all of the digital stuff relative to purchases, travel, all of the stuff, It's mounting up. I mean, you're talking about an evidentiary avalanche, if you will, that, you know, he's staring down the barrel of right now. It all depends on how the prosecution puts this case together, how it's woven together to tell the narrative that they want to tell. I'm particularly intrigued to hear what the medical examiner has to say today. Is just the beginning the hearing set to go on for days. If you know or think you know anything about Celeste's death, please die. Please dial 213-486-6-890.

213-486-6-8-90. We remember American Hero C.I. Officer Shannon Browning, Orange County, Florida, passed away in the line of duty leaving behind two children, Adrian and Andrea. American Hero. C.O. Shannon Brown. Thank you to our guests for being with us tonight, but especially to you.

Nancy Gray is signing off for tonight, but I'll see it tomorrow night. And until then, good night. This is an I-Heart podcast, guaranteed human.