Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - GUILTY VERDICT IN MURDER TRIAL OF CULT MOM LORI VALLOW

Episode Date: May 12, 2023

In less than seven hours of deliberations, twelve  Idaho jurors found Lori Vallow guilty of killing her two children and her current husband’s then-wife,     The most shocking event in court this week is the fact that the defense did not put on a defense.  After the prosecutor ended its case, defense attorneys told the judge that Vallow's team did not believe the state proved its case, so they did not have a reason to present a case.   A date for sentencing has not yet been set, however Vallow could get life in prison.  Joining Nancy Grace Today: Tara Malek - Bosie, ID Attorney and Co-owner of Smith + Malek. Former state and federal prosecutor. smithmalek.com, Twitter: @smith_malek Robin Dreeke - Behavior Expert & former FBI Special Agent / Chief of the FBI Counterintelligence Behavioral Analysis Program, Author: "Sizing People Up: A Veteran FBI Agents Manual for Behavior Prediction", peopleformula.com, Twitter: @rdreeke Dr. Michelle Joy- Forensic, Clinical, and academic psychiatrist, Author: “An Illustrated History of the Insanity Defense”, @Westphillymorbidart Joseph Scott Morgan- Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan" Nate Eaton – News Director, EastIdahoNews.com Twitter: @NateNewsNow, Instagram: @n.eaton  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Call Mom Lori Vallow guilty. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. In the last hours, a jury hands down a verdict in the cult mom Lori Vallow case on trial for multiple counts, but most notably for conspiracy to murder her own children.

It's been a long trial and a long time coming, but finally, a verdict. We, the jury, duly impaneled and sworn to try the above entitled action for our verdict, unanimously answer the questions submitted to us as follows. Question number one. In regards to count one of the amended indictment, is Lori Noreen Vallow not guilty or guilty of conspiracy to commit first degree murder of Tylee Ryan and grand theft by deception? Answer, guilty. Question number two. In regards to count two of the amended indictment, is Lori Noreen ballo not guilty or guilty of first degree murder of kylie ryan answer guilty question number three in regards to count three of the amended indictment

is lori noreen ballo not guilty or guilty of conspiracy to commit first degree murder of joshua jackson ballallow and grand theft by deception. Answer, guilty. Question number four. In regards to count four, the amended indictment, is Lori Noreen Vallow not guilty or guilty of first-degree murder of Joshua Jackson Vallow? Answer, guilty. Question number five. of first-degree murder of Joshua Jackson Vallow answered guilty question number five in regards to count five of the amended indictment is Lori Noreen Vallow

not guilty or guilty of conspiracy to commit first-degree murder of Tamara Tammy Davell answer guilty question number six in regards to count seven of the amended indictment is laurie marine valo not guilty or guilty of grand theft answered guilty straight out to east idaho news.com news director nate eaton this jury deliberated less than i would say about seven hours they started yesterday around 2 15 they took a dinner break they went home before seven they were back this morning at nine and we got word around 11 45 that a verdict was coming down i have to tell you that a lot of people were out here waiting in the courtroom i stepped outside the courtroom to go grab a bite to eat i came back i made my way into

the courtroom and someone pulled me over and said nate i think something's happening one of the bailiffs walked out and went over to um the clerk and whispered something and then uh she texted someone and then about two or three minutes later the trial court administrator walked in and said ladies and gentlemen we have a verdict in laurie vallow's case guilty on all counts she has been found guilty for the murder of Tylee Ryan. She has been found guilty for the murder of J.J. Vallow. She's been found guilty for the conspiracy charges on Tylee and J.J. and the grand theft charge. I gotta tell you, the most moving moment

was leaving the courthouse, seeing all of the police officers lining the hallway, giving each other hugs. This is a day they've been waiting for. After a long trial and gruesome testimony and evidence, what was her reaction? The same reaction she's kind of had the entire trial. She didn't show much emotion. She was standing. The judge asked her to stand between her attorneys, John Thomas and Jim Archibald. And the jury walked in and they handed over the envelope to the judge.

He looked at what their verdict was. He then asked the clerk to read it and again it was guilty on all counts. What was the key evidence that put the nail in the coffin for cult mom Lori Vallow? First of all to to the shock of many, the defense rests without putting up a shred of evidence. Listen. Your Honor, after consultation with my client, we don't believe the state has proven its case, so the defense rests. Okay, you were just hearing Lori Vallow's defense attorney speaking. Nate Eaton, the news director, EastIdahoNews.com. Nate, not even one witness, nothing? Not one witness.

The big question was, was Lori going to take the stand? And I'm told that right after the prosecution rested, her attorneys asked for 15 minutes in the courtroom with just her so that they could make that final decision. They were leaving it up to Lori. Everybody cleared the courtroom. About 20 minutes later, we all went back in the courtroom. The judge turned it over to the defense, and that is when the sound bite you just played, that's when her attorney said that. Lori has been leading this defense team the entire time, Nancy. She is an actively involved defendant. She is taking notes constantly or doodling on her notebook. She is chatting in their ears to the point that one day one of her attorneys had to

shush her and say, listen, I need to listen to what the witness is saying. So this was her decision and they had no other witnesses who could defend her you know true words were never spoken only a fool hires himself as a lawyer so you know that is fraught with error to be steering the defense team with me high profile lawyer joining us out of idaho that jurisdiction tara malik is with us co co-owner Smith and Malik, former state and federal prosecutor. Tara, thank you for being with us. How often do you see the defense rest

without putting up a shred of evidence? Well, it certainly happens, but what's unusual about this particular case is it seems to be going along with the theme of how the defense has acted kind of throughout this trial. Given how serious it is, given the volume of evidence the state has put on, I would have anticipated something, some witness to be placed on the stand by the defense team, but to have nothing reflects kind of this backseat approach that the defense has been taking, I think, throughout the trial. You know, even the cross-examination, I didn't think was particularly effective when they were

doing that from witness to witness. So an unusual step for this type of case, for sure. Nate Eaton, joining me, EastSidehoneyws.com. Nate it seemed as if the defense sat back and basically mocked the state's evidence. Well here's the thing. As if it meant nothing. Here's the thing they really could have gone after Chad Daybell in this case or Alex Cox or Lori's dead brother. They did not because Lori would get upset if they threw her husband under the bus. There was one day where one of the attorneys really started to go into the fact that before Lori met Chad Daybell, she didn't have these religious beliefs. She was religious. She liked praying and whatnot.

But all of these beliefs started to be introduced to her in 2018, which is when she met Chad. And they really started to go down this road and maybe kind of start to paint the story for the jury. And when the attorney sat down, Lori was not pleased. She did not want Chad Daybell being thrown under the bus. She did not want her brother, who likely did all of these physical acts, did it himself. She did not want them looking like they did anything bad. And so that is why the defense, I don't want to say they had their hands tied, but they didn't do much. These are experienced defense attorneys. One of her attorneys has done 27 or 28 murder cases. He's represented 10 or 11

people on death row. The other attorney helped exonerate a man who served 20 years in prison for a crime he didn't commit. These guys, you know, aren't fresh out of school. They know what they're doing. But when you have a client like Lori Vallow, they weren't able to do it. Nancy, this is Michelle Joy. Can I offer a comment on this? Sure. Go ahead, Dr. Joy. One thing that I thought was interesting, I believe at one point she was found incompetent to stand trial, right, and received some mental health treatment. So, you know, from a forensic psychiatry perspective, we see that when, you know, someone's not able to necessarily understand the nature of their charges or assist with their own defense. Okay, that happens. She received treatment and was competent. But she's almost like leading the team, and you would think she would need a higher bar to do that.

It's almost like a pro se defense in a way. And so the idea of this woman that we're all seeing is kind of, you know, delusional at some level having, we'll get into what this differential is, but that she was incompetent to stand trial, receive treatment, and is now somehow leading the defense team is even odder and more surprising to me. You're hearing Dr. Michelle Joy, forensic clinical academic psychiatrist and author of An Illustrated History of the Insanity Defense. Nate Eaton, could you explain really the rationale behind the incompetency decision? It's not so much that she doesn't understand what's going on around her. She does understand really well.

She knew to lie to police about the whereabouts of her children after they were murdered, Nate Eaton. She knew to take off to Hawaii where you pursued her and found her and questioned her. She played the system from the get-go, played all of her relatives, her husband, her husbands, her children, her brother, law enforcement, the Woodcocks. Everyone got played by Lori Vallow. The incompetency ruling, I believe, was because she truly believes that people can be zombies, zombies, light or dark, and that the only way you can cure them of their zombie-like state is to kill them. That is where the incompetence ruling originated, not because she could not

understand what her lawyers were telling her. Yeah, exactly. Well, in Idaho, you just have to fit two rules. One, you have to understand your charges, and two, assist,000 items on Lori's iCloud account. And there's a lot happening behind the scenes in text messages with Chad Daybell when both of their spouses are still alive. They clearly understood to change the life insurance policies. They clearly understood that when she was not the $1 million beneficiary, how upset they were, but don't worry, she's still going to get the $6,000 a month from Social Security. So they understood that they needed to finance a way to live. Okay, just stop.

Wait a minute. I'm just thinking about how Tylee and JJ were murdered, not to mention Tammy Daybell and to this day I believe Joseph Ryan and I also believe that it's just not a coincidence that Alex Cox just killed over dead and we've got two COD causes of death for him that's total BS technical legal term I mean Joe Scott Morgan is with me. Death investigator has literally investigated over a thousand death cases. He's professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon and star of Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan podcast. Joe Scott, how can one person have two CODs? Because that is what happened with Alex Cox. Yeah, isn't that something that he would?

And, you know, I begin to think about Alex in the broader sense relative to his hand at things, his hand on the wheel, if you will. Or let me rephrase that, Lori's hand on his shoulder directing him, because I think that that's probably what had occurred. I don't, you know, I concur with the level of perception here. I don't think Alex was the sharpest tool in the shed either. Easily manipulated, directed, that sort of thing. And what really has come to mind for me after all these years that we've been covering this case

is the star witness, for me at least from a forensic standpoint, is JJ. It's almost like he was conjured up in the courtroom, that he breathed life into this case from the grave in the sense that the most powerful thing for me was that blonde hair, Nancy. And I've caught some flack relative to people saying all the things that they normally say relative to, well, you would expect- Well, you know what, Joe Scott, before you say another word, I know you're a renowned death investigator, but here's a little legal knowledge for you.

You catching a lot of flack? Screw them and the horse they rode in on. Okay, so just keep that in mind when you're catching flack. Perception and reality. The reality is this. You know, everybody has wanted to tie Lori Vallow to these deaths. And that big tieback for me was that hair, Nancy. It spoke volumes.

And people have said, well, you'd expect to find... You've got to explain to everybody that doesn't know about the long blonde hair that was found on JJ's body and tape around him. He was wrapped up like he was hermetically sealed like a mummy. Yeah, and you said a mouthful there because of this. It's one thing to wrap a body okay but you're actually talking about with this tape and the plastic bags that's a facilitator of death that's a modality so her hair was actually found in dwelling the physical presence well hold

on you know when you just throw out terms like that, when you say the tape, the taping of little JJ's body, seven year old JJ's was a facilitator of the homicide. In other words, the tape itself, like in top mom Casey Anthony, Kelly with tape wrapped around her mouth and her nose that facilitated or aided the death yeah because we're talking about kind of very in non-specific terms remember the pathologist could not absolutely positively say with you know that this is a strangulation or this is a suffocation but what we do know is that their opinion is that this was an asphyxial death well how was the asphyxial death more than likely brought about? Well, it was vis-a-vis this plastic bag and this tape. And her hair is connected to it, Nancy.

It's not just like it was picked up off the floors. You know, they were trying to neatly, as you said, hermetically seal his little body. No, this is part of the facilitation of this act. And that, to me, is the most powerful thing here, this tieback. And I think that Alex had something to do with it. I'll never forget.

I'll never forget Nate talking about many months ago, that last kind of image that everybody has in their mind, where JJ is up on Alex's shoulder. That's really the last time that we have any kind of physical evidence of him in his PJs and socks. Exactly what he was wearing when his body was found. Hey, Nate Eaton, joining us, news director, EastIdahoNews.com on the story from the very beginning, pursuing cult mom Lori Vallow all the way to Hawaii for answers. Nate, describe for those that are not familiar with every nuance of this case, where the hair was found, where Lori Vallow's hair was found specifically. So the hair was found on a piece of duct tape that was wrapped around the plastic that was wrapped around JJ's body. So it wasn't on his PJs. It wasn't on his actual body, but it was done

after he was wrapped up and killed. And this was the plastic. That's significant. Very significant, Nate Eaton, because if her hair was on his PJs, that could be, oh, well, it was on there from the washer or dryer. It was on there because he hugged her. But being on the tape puts her there when his body is being taped up like a mummy. That's a whole nother scenario. Was it DNA matched to her, Nate Eaton? It was. They said it was one in, I think, 75 octillion or something. Yes, that's correct.

Population that it was her. And they tested it against them. They tested against Tylee and Melanie Gibb, who was at the home the last time JJ was found, just to be sure it wasn't hers. And it came back, Lori. And, Nancy, remember, there were some other DNA tests that came back, a thumbprint and a palm print, but those matched Alex Cox. So this was the one piece of Lori Vallow that was actually there at the scene, there on the dead body. And that might be the one question the jury has. The conspiracy, I think, has been proven.

We know that. The grand theft, yes, she was using her kid's money. But did she actually commit the murders? That might be the one hang-up that the jury has of, well, we think her brother did it. How did she do it if there was no tie to her? And for Tylee, there's nothing left for Tylee to really test other than her bones, which they compared to tools to find out what was there and you know pieces of her liver and body parts and they weren't able to find any dna on those so correct me if i'm wrong nate eaton but after the two children are killed presumably missing isn't cult mom laurie vala still talking about how much money she's going to make off of them

from their social security? Sure. And then they immediately moved on to Tammy because she died a month later. And that, let me tell you one more thing, Nancy, the same day, the same day that Kylie died and is being buried on Chad Daybell's property. That is the date that Chad Daybell and Lori and Tammy Daybell signed a new life insurance policy that was the maximum amount allowed on the policy. Tammy Daybell went from the minimum of $10,000 a year to the maximum at her job as Tylee Ryan is being buried on the property. crime stories with nancy grace for those of you just joining us guilty cult mom laurie valo just Guilty. Cult mom Lori Vallow just found guilty by a jury of her peers after a long trial. Some of the most powerful evidence in the courtroom highlighted in closing arguments. Some of the most powerful evidence this jury has heard. Take a listen to prosecutor Rob Wood questioning Dr. Garth Warren. Have you formed an expert opinion concerning the cause of death of J.J. Vallow?

I have. What was that? I determined the cause of death to be asphyxia by a plastic bag over the head and duct tape covering the mouth. And then there's another segment that's other significant conditions. I put bound with duct tape, bruising of the arms, and abrasion to the neck. But ultimately the cause of death was asphyxia by plastic bag over the head and duct tape over the mouth. Joe Scott Morgan joining us, Professor of Forensics, Jacksonville State University.

Joe Scott, I actually had a case where the COD, cause of death, was asphyxia with one of those clear plastic laundry bags from dry cleaning type bag that they put over the clothing. One of those. And that is a brutal, had bits of the plastic up all in her nose and around her mouth where they had to pick it off at the medical examiner's office. She was trying so hard to breathe and she would breathe in the plastic. That's what happened to seven-year-old JJ. Yep, you're absolutely right and just understand this is as there's an awareness on on his part there would have been even even if they found anything in his system that kind of numbed him like any kind of substance just at a primal level nancy

he's beginning to rebreathe his own air. And any of us have ever been closed in in kind of a tight space and the air gets very warm, that sort of thing, you're rebreathing carbon dioxide, which obviously is incompatible with life. And then all of a sudden you begin to get lightheaded.

Your primal instinct kicks in and normally we would reach up to our head, right? Just envision this just for a moment, if you will. We would reach up to our head to try to free ourselves. But guess what? He couldn't. You know why?

Because his hands were bound. So he's struggling all along. He can't free himself with his hands, can't do it of his own accord. And he's bound. He has this thing wrapped around his head and covering his mouth as well. This was, in the truest sense, this was a kill shot that they planned. They knew that this was inescapable, that there's no way he could recover from this.

They were bound and determined. And the thing about it, Nancy, this in no way on any measurement is this merciful death. This is as horrible as it can possibly get. Horrible. Horrible, horrible death. Horrible death. And to you, Nate Eaton. Now, before I go to Robin Dreek, joining us, former FBI special agent, behavior expert, Nate Eaton.

I want you to set it up for Robin's answer, whatever it may be, as cult mom Lori Vallow is sitting in court and she's hearing what you just heard Joe Scott Morgan describe, the death of JJ, and not only trying to breathe through the plastic bag, bruising on the arms where they held him while he died, held him back, held him down so he couldn't take that bag off his face, abrasions to the neck. She sat there in court. She heard that. What was her reaction? It was similar to all the other reactions she's had, Nancy. She didn't show much emotion. She looked at the witness. She whispered to her attorney. She wrote in her notebook. That's been the consistent demeanor through the past six weeks. There are many days she's smiling. She's laughing. She's rolling her eyes. It is the behavior we've seen from Lori Ballo since the moment I saw her in Hawaii. Not much has changed. Joining me, Robin Dreek, who I just mentioned, behavior expert, former FBI special agent,

chief of FBI counterintelligence behavioral analysis program, and the author of Sizing People Up, a veteran FBI agent's manual for behavior prediction. And you can find him at peopleformula.com. Robin Drake, it's a real honor to have you on with us. I wanted you to hear the background. Before I ask you what cult mom Lori Vallow's behavior in court means to you, smiling, laughing, rolling her eyes, whispering back and forth to her lawyers. You know how, imagine a lady crossing her legs and kicking her foot back and forth, up and down.

That's called mom Lori Vallow. Can't do it too much because she's shackled. But what does her behavior in court tell you, Robin Drake? You know, first and foremost, foremost without a doubt you don't have to be a trained licensed clinician to understand what psychopathy looks like psychopaths have no empathy no connection and we're talking about this before i don't even think she has an internal voice because she's a pure predator that has no remorse for anything she does. And I will say, out of all the horrendous things we've seen and heard, I'm at least grateful that she led her own defense team because she's her own undoing.

You know, when you said internal monologue, how psychopaths do not have an internal monologue. If you talk to yourself ever, don't worry. It's not you. My daughter asked me that, and I'm like, I don't know that I think and talk in my head when I'm going about my day, but then I realized that I do. So I compare it to something like a shark. The shark is not trolling through the water silently, looking for its next victim and thinking, wow, I really feel bad about this, but I'm going to have to eat that school of fish. No, that's not happening. Or a snake doesn't think before it strikes.

That's what we're talking about. The way I see it, Drake. Yep, 100 percent. You know, we can see this in everything she's absolutely done, the way she handles herself in the courtroom, the way people around her just drop off and she does it for money. Gosh, it's so obvious. And when the defense arrested yesterday saying that they didn't prove their case, I was like, thank God, because it was so evident when she was taking so many notes. Like you said when she was taking so many

notes. Like you said, she's taking information in the moment, making decisions in the moment. I don't, and when they served her her papers in Hawaii, we looked at that tape, she looked like it wasn't even cognating with her because that would require an internal voice to actually think about what's going on. And she's incompatible with her life. It's like she's flirtatious in the courtroom nate eaton the rolling the eyes the giggling the smiling the tossing the hair the whispering to counsel she's you know that it's almost as if laurie sees herself as on a completely different plane a completely different universe she a completely different universe. She probably believes she does. And the world, according to what I understand, the world did not deserve to hear from

her. That was her thought. But I will say the defense was smart in a way that earlier on in the trial, they were able to get in a podcast of Lori, one that she recorded about a year and a half ago with her friend, well, three years now, where you hear Lori talk about how she has seen Jesus, and she has called to do all of these wonderful, mighty things for the world. And so the defense was able to get in a good 40 minutes of that podcast without any cross-examination because they didn't have to put Lori on the stand. They were able to get a few phone calls that showed Lori talking with her son Colby and her sister Summer. And you were able to see where Lori's head was at right after the bodies were

found of her children. So the defense didn't have ways to get things in so the jury could hear that clearly this woman is not thinking like the rest of us think without having to put her on the stand and open her up to cross-examination. although I would have loved to hear her on the stand. Tara Malik, joining us, high-profile lawyer out of that jurisdiction, Idaho. Tara, that was good thinking on the part of the defense. It's very difficult to get the voice of your client on the stand in front of the jury without forcing them on the stand and undergoing cross-examination. But they did that very wisely, I believe, with those particular witnesses on the stand.

Therefore, they're not really introducing anything. Because in a lot of jurisdictions, once the defense introduces any evidence, they lose final closing argument. But they introduced those or they used those phone conversations to show and demonstrate cult moms bizarre beliefs. Yeah, I mean, it is hard. You know, the defense can't put on through other people generally the statements of the defendant. It's hearsay and not allowed. And while the prosecution can, you know, there are ways sometimes, like you saw in this case, where they can sneak in it. And it really is, you have to be delicate about the way that you do it, but get in that evidence in another way. And they were, they put on some evidence of her voice, her religious beliefs, and they were able to get that in there. Now, the question

is, you know, is that enough for these jurors? Is that going to satisfy them? And it's a circumstantial case, you know, and the state does have the burden. It's a high burden, and they had to lay brick by brick, you know, all this circumstantial evidence to convince this jury, beyond a reasonable doubt, that Lori was involved in these murders. And the evidence here is compelling. And I personally think that it was a mistake for the defense not to put on any sort of defense. And I don't think, even if it's not Lori that they put on the stand, you know, it is a significant risk to have that much, you know, bravado and say, well, you know, the state just hasn't proved anything here at all, and we're not putting anything on. And then, you know, make a motion for acquittal under Rule 29, which is basically, it hasn't proved their burdens.

Right. You know, you decide it shouldn't even go as far as the jury. Guys, we heard testimony, the most powerful testimony about little JJ's death. What about Tylee? Listen. Dr. Warren, based on your autopsy of Tylee Ryan and based upon your education, training, and experience, have you formed an expert opinion concerning the cause of death of Tylee Ryan and based upon your education, training, and experience, have you formed an expert opinion concerning the cause of death of Tylee Ryan?

Yes. What is that cause of death? I determine the cause of death to be homicide by unspecified means. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Her body so mutilated, so dismembered, so mistreated. Nothing left but a bucket of human tissue. No one could determine a COD cause of death on teen girl Tylee. Joe Scott Morgan, death investigator, what about it?

Yeah, the level of brutality is just amazing here. You can't, because of so much destruction relative to the fire and also these attempts to dismember her or, you know, break her body apart, which I think is actually probably what happened in this case, is it goes beyond anything that most of us can imagine. And if I could just interject this just for a second, and this is only my opinion, you know, there was a lot made, I think, of the tool marks that were kind of focused there in her midsection along the pelvic area. They had mentioned the tailbone at one point in time. Nancy, I think that there's a high probability they may have tried to incinerate her body in total, in whole, without much effort to dismember her. I think that they got very frustrated.

And as they were attempting to render her body down by fire, somebody went out there, maybe Alex Cox and used a shovel, this pickaxe or whatever it was to try to break her body apart in the fire. And that's what you're seeing out there with these tool marks. It was, you know, and we'll never know.

We'll never know, you know, how she actually came to her end, but she was treated completely different than JJ, completely. His body was kind of memorialized and it was set apart. You know, Tylee, she's placed in an area where they're burying dead animals, and then they're so disrespectful to her remains. I think a lot can be read into that. But at the end of the day, they failed miserably to try to render her completely gone because many people that try to do this don't realize how much work has to go into this to tending a fire to try to render down a body. 1,800 degrees in a crematory, Nancy, and that's with a constant fuel supply of natural gas. They didn't have it out there.

It makes me think of the case of Teresa Holbach and Stephen Avery, who became a media darling in making a murderer. Many people thinking that he's innocent. He stood over a fire pit for nearly 24 hours through the night trying to burn the body of Teresa Hallback. That's how long it takes. And the rendering, like you do in a slaughterhouse, to Tylee's body is just unspeakable.

And I wonder if, based on the brutality of the way they dismembered her and treated her body, how she was murdered and what brutality was used in that act. And, of course, the jury became acquainted with a new character. Take a listen to our cut 414. This is Douglas Hart, former FBI special agent. Line 2656 from Chad Daybell to Lori Vallow. You are so adorable, beautiful, wonderful, heavenly, luscious, and angelic. So many divine attributes rolled into one dynamic, desirable package.

I want you even more desperately than you want me line 26 22 from Chad Daybell to Lori Vallow just grab me by the storm and I will follow you to the ends of the universe line 26 08 from Lori Vallow to Chad Daybell when might that be line 2607 from Chad Daybell to Lori Vallow Oh, that's a lot of poetic phraseology to describe jumping in the sack together. So you may wonder, who is Storm? Take a listen to our cut 416A. Are you aware of what some of the phrase, grab me by the storm and I will follow you to the ends of the earth, meant? Objection calls for speculation.

Thank you. Yes, I'm aware. Okay. What did that mean the word storm is the name they had given to Chad Daybell's penis and so this was an anticipation of getting together with each other for sexual purposes yes and at this time Chad Chad Daybell, was he still married to Tammy? Yes. How far from Charles Vallow's death was that? This is seven days after Charles Vallow's death. Storm.

Storm. With the backdrop of the murders of seven-year-old JJ and teen girl Tylee. I got to hear that cult mom Lori Vallow gave a pet name to the prophet Chad Daybell's penis. Nate Eaton. Did I hear somebody start coughing in the middle of that testimony? I did. Somebody was suppressing a laugh slash cough. You may have heard. Yeah, I was going to say you may have heard coughing laughter.

There was actually gas from the people sitting behind me in the row because we went on to hear that Storm was talked about more than once in the text messages, including the morning after Tammy Daybell died. And that's when Chad also sends a message to Lori saying, you know, he called her many names. He called her Lily and Elena. He said, after Tammy Daybell died just hours later, everybody thinks I'm sad, but they don't know the real reason I'm sad. It's because he missed her.

And then he said, I need to, I look forward to getting on the Lily diet, strengthen my ab get tanner get thinner it can't come soon enough so clearly uh if his spouse is dead and people are mourning her loss he was not thinking about that okay where does storm his penis enter into that uh conversation well that's probably what he was thinking probably all he was thinking. Probably all he was thinking about is what I meant to say, Nancy, that is making sure that he and Lori could cook up a storm or something.

Okay, wait, wait. You just told me something I didn't know and I appreciate that, Nate Eaton. I want to go to Robin Dreek, behavior expert, former FBI special agent and author of Sizing People Up, Robin. So, Tammy Daybell has only been dead, asphyxiated I might add, for a few hours.

And you have the prophet, Chad Daybell, talking about, I want to go get in the sun and get a tan and get thin. You know, I want to be with you. Can't come soon enough. Talking about his penis. Everybody thinks I'm upset over Tammy. That's not true. Okay. I don't guess I have to be an FBI special agent and behavior expert and behavior expert and behavioral analysis to figure that out. But I would like to hear your expert analysis. Well, you don't have to be an expert at this one. These are two individuals that have high,

high demand and need for grandiosity and they're feeding into it for each other you know and with chad hey slow down man i gotta i want to hear every word what did you say about grandiosity yeah so both these individuals have a high high need for grandiosity and that's a sign of psychopathy and they're feeding into it with each other. And the way they treat everyone else in their lives, especially their children, just went through the horrific part of it. And for those that think that and claim that she was such a good mother, think about this instead. She objectified people in her life as objects, like a shiny piece of jewelry that made her look good until it no longer did.

And then she discarded it. And same thing with both of these individuals. They're feeding into each other's needs for the sense of grandiosity, greatness, and they just keep feeding each other into it. And they exclude everyone else because everyone else to them is just merely an object in their lives to be discarded the timing of these texts and these conversations between them is very very important i want you to take a listen to our cut 418 our friends at fox 10 line 2374 from laurie valo to chad daybell it was great i feel free again i love you more than ever and can't wait to be with you forever. Hart told the court that records showed Vallow and Daybell attended the Church of Jesus Christ Latter-day Saints in Gilbert as early as November of 2018, several months before Vallow's fourth husband Charles was shot and killed, and nearly a year before Daybell's wife Tammy died.

And the timing and the money motive were two very critical components of the state's case. Take a listen to our cut 424. This is a former FBI special agent, Douglas Hart. Charles Vallow had changed the beneficiary of his life insurance from Lori Vallow to another individual. I included this because it was pertinent in terms of potential financial motives in this case. If you could, starting with the lines on page 17, could you take a look at those and read those into the record? Yes. Line 2706 from Lori Vallow to Chad Daybell. I just got the letter from the insurance company

saying that I am not the beneficiary. It is a spear through my heart. Who do you think he changed it to? They're talking about Lori Vallow no longer being the insurance beneficiary. Charles Vallow was afraid for his own life and had the beneficiary changed from her. Take a listen to 427.

Line 2700 from Chad Daybell to Lori Vallow. Hmm. It will be interesting if it got changed after he had two bullets in his chest. Incredible. They're saying, whoa, maybe we can beat this life insurance policy change if we can prove after he had two bullets in his chest, it was changed. But they were wrong. Vallow changed the life insurance before they murdered him. And last, during all of this, called Mom Lori Vallow, was trying to think about her monthly income off of her dead children. Listen to 428, same witness.

Line 2687 from Lori Vallow to Chad Daybell. So I talked to the insurance company. He changed it in March. So it was probably Ned before we got rid of him. They can't tell me to who, of course, but it's done. I'll still get the $4,000 a month from SS. You know, Nate Eaton, money motive. It's so clear. And as far as Tammy Daybell goes,

it's all about getting her life insurance policy. That's why he insisted it was a natural cause of death and the money that they would make off the two dead children. Yeah, there was one witness who said that they had even found research that Lori had done about life insurance policies on kids. There was no sign that Lori ever took out policies on that, but research was done on her iCloud account that showed that. And she was still receiving money from the kids because she got money from JJ because his dad, Charles, was killed. They got money for that. She got money from Tylee because Tylee's dad died, Joseph Ryan. And then she was receiving money because she was a single mom whose spouse had died. And they said

that she would receive that money as long as she didn't get remarried. Oh, by the way, I know you'll be shocked to hear this, Nancy. When she married Chad Daybell, she did not let the Social Security Office know that. So she continued to receive money she was not sentenced today that will happen in about two to three months this is an extensive case so judge boyce said uh that he that there might need a little bit more time needed so we're looking probably mid-august when that sentence will and um she could face up to life in prison on several of the counts on the conspiracy charges and the murder charges she could go away for life. Justice delayed, but not denied. Cult mom Lori Vallow, guilty. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.