Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Gun-Toting Boyfriend Guns Down Lover's Ex at Kid Pickup,

Episode Date: April 6, 2022

Chad Read meets with his ex, Christina, for a court-ordered custody exchange. The exchange is anything but civil. The Reads get into an argument which spills over to include Kyle Carruth, Christina Read's boyfriend. It's all caught on video. During the extended shouting, Carruth goes inside a residence and returns with a rifle, telling Chad Read to leave. Seeing the weapon, Read appears to tell Carruth he'd better use the gun or Read will take it and use it on him. Bumping chests, the men continue to shout at each other then struggling over the weapon. When Read is a couple of feet away from Carruth, Kyle shoots Read, killing him. No charges are filed, with police determining self-defense.Joining Nancy Grace Today: David Shestokas - Attorney, Former Assistant State's Attorney, Cook County, IL, Author: "Constitutional Sound Bites" and "Creating the Declaration of Independence" (Amazon/Kindle) Instagram/Twitter: @shestokas, shestokas.com Caryn Stark - NYC Psychologist, www.carynstark.com, Twitter: @carynpsych, Facebook: "Caryn Stark" Lisa M. Dadio - Former Police Lieutenant, New Haven Police Department, Senior Lecturer, Director of the "Center for Advanced Policing" at the University of New Haven's Forensic Science Department Dr. Kendall Crowns – Chief Medical Examiner Tarrant County (Ft Worth), Lecturer: University of Texas and Texas A&M, Affiliated Faculty: University of Texas Medical Branch Kase Wilbanks - Anchor/Reporter, KCBD NewsChannel 11 (Lubbock, TX), KCBD.com, Instagram: @kasewilb, Twitter: @KaseKCBD, Facebook: "Kase Wilbanks KCBD" Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A gun-wielding man shoots down his girlfriend's ex, unarmed ex, and he's not facing charges? What? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. Take a listen to this. I'll go get him. I'm supposed to have him at 315. And you're playing games telling me that I can pick him up at 6? I'm going to have to call him. I've already got the pump on the way to your mom's house. Because that's probably where he is.

It's not when I'm done working. I get him at 3.15. I get him at 3.15. I don't care if you wanted to see him or not. I get him at 3.15. If you want to see him, you see him up until 3.15. You keep trying to keep my son from me. I'm fixing to drag you and Ann Marie and everybody else into court.

I'm subpoenaing your mom. I'm subpoenaing Ann Marie. I'm glad this is on video. I'm very glad. Yeah. Leave. Do it. Right now.

You better use it, mother----. I'll take it from you. Call the video. Call the video. Call 911. Where's my son? Call 911. Call 911. Call 911. Call 911.

Call 911. You're hearing it as it happens. That would be the first thing I would play to a jury in this case. You hear her words and argument about what time the pickup of the little boy, the boy, the dead guy shares with the girlfriend. They're arguing about what time the pickup was supposed to be. Then he says, I'm taking you to court. We're going to hammer this out in front of a judge. A judge, I'm going to subpoena you and your mother. And then all of a sudden, voices are raised and you hear bam, bam, and it's over. A life is gone. And in that moment, three children are left without a father. Just like that. Again, I'm Nancy Grace.

Thank you for being with us. You were hearing cell phone video by Jennifer Reed, and it was aired on KCBD 11. And there are no charges. You can shoot down an unarmed man when you've got a long gun in your hand loaded and locked. And there are no charges. With me, an all-star panel to make sense of what we know right now. First of all, high-profile lawyer, former assistant state's attorney joining us, author of Constitutional Soundbites and Creating the Declaration of Independence. Wow, that's impressive. David Shostokas is with us. Karen Stark, renowned psychologist joining us from New York. You can find her at karenstark.com. That's Karen with a C. Lisa Daddio, former police lieutenant, senior lecturer and director for Center for Advanced Policing at New Haven's Forensic Science Department.

Dr. Kendall Crowns, chief medical examiner, Tarrant County, that's Fort Worth, lecturer, University of Texas and Texas A&M, and on faculty at the University of Texas Medical Branch. But first, joining us, special guest, Case Wilbanks, anchor reporter, KCBD. That's News Channel 11 in Lubbock. Case, what in the world? Look, I love Texas, as many people say Texas should be its own country. But I don't get it. This guy guns down his girlfriend's ex. Let me get this straight.

Who comes for a pickup of his son. The son apparently is not ready or they're arguing about the time of the pickup. And all of a sudden, he's gunned down? Is that what happened? Essentially, that is what happened. And, you know, these were questions we were asking right off the bat. We knew this was going to be a very unique case and one we would be following. There was actually within 30 minutes of that shooting another one in Lubbock

with the same circumstances the police department described. You know guys with me is Case Wilbanks joining us in KCBD right there in Lubbock. I want you to Case to take a listen to our friend Christy Hart in 11 News. This moves ahead a few seconds. I have it on video, Kyle. You did it, not him. I told you. I told all of y'all to leave. We came to get her, his son. He's not here. She should have told that. She should have told that. None of y'all should be here. None of y'all should be here. I asked you to leave. I did everything. I did not want to do any of this. 9-1-1. Carruth's attorney, David Gwynn, tells KCBD it's clear this is self-defense.

I believe it confirms that the Lubbock police's thorough work reflects this is a justified homicide. Okay, I want to go back to Case Wilbanks joining us. And remember, everybody on the panel, this ain't no tea party. Jump in. You're not at High Grove. Case Wilbanks, KCBD, let's go through the video very carefully. Very upsetting, guys, because you see someone actually getting shot, shot dead. And it all starts at, it seems to be a lovely home. And they've got their little porch furniture on the front yard. And you see the victim in this case. You see him, Chad Reed, age 54,

got on his blue jeans and his tennis shoes. Looks like he's just coming. What day of the week was this case, Will Banks? This was on a Friday, a Friday afternoon. So we know the children are home from school. He's over there and you see him. He's wagging his finger at his ex, who is now the girlfriend of the suspect,

Kyle Carruth, age 39. He's wagging his finger, and he's telling her, giving her the business. He's pointing inside. I can imagine he's saying something like, you're supposed to have him ready when I come to pick him up. So, uh-oh, uh-oh, here it comes. Out comes the shooter, Kyle Carruth, and oh, they're butting chests. Why Carruth, and, oh, they're butting chests. Why do men do that? Anyway, they're butting chests, and he gets the gun. He's got it up in the air. They struggle.

And then with the victim at about, I would say, seven or eight feet, unarmed, shoots him. Did I miss anything, Case? That's essentially it. And when that escalates, when Chad steps Did I miss anything, Case? That's essentially it, and when that escalates, when Chad steps up onto the porch, that's when things get very dangerous, and some of those questions could come in to was this self-defense, and was he on his property now that he was up on the porch, and that sort of thing, and then that's where the whole self-defense argument and this

castle doctrine, as it's known, comes into play. Well, hold on. You know what, Case? You got me drinking out of the fire hydrant here. You're giving me a lot of information at once more than I can take in. Let me bring in our high-profile expert, David Shostokas. Did I get that right? You got that perfect, Nance.

It cases right on this issue. But wait a minute, wait a minute, David. Here's my question. With the castle doctrine, which means you're the king or your castle or the queen, the victim, the dead victim, father of three, it's not like he's a burglar. It was arranged for him to be there. He was supposed to be in that location. I've studied this case a lot since it happened. There's a big difference in a burglar sticking his foot through your kitchen window and dad on the front

porch waiting for his child to come out. He, the victim in this case, the dead guy, Chad Reed, was where he was supposed to be. Yeah, he was giving his ex the what-to about not having the children ready or whatever custody argument they're fighting about. But it's not like he's a trespasser, is it? Well, he apparently becomes a trespasser when he stands on the porch. The Texas Castle Doctrine is, in fact, encoded in Texas law. And it's fairly strong. You're talking like a lawyer again, David, when you say things like encoded in Texas law. What that means, it's in black and white. It is in the criminal code.

It's the law by statute, not case law. Okay, go ahead. Tell me about it. Yeah, that's correct. It is a law by statute in Texas that allows people to defend their home and their property. In fact, it includes their vehicle or their place of business. It's a quite broad definition of your castle. In the code, it's called habitation.

So your car can be your castle under the law. Yes. Yes, your car can be your castle under the law. Your place of business can be your castle under the law in Texas, including your home. And home goes beyond that. What one would consider like inside the home it would include what would we would define it as a lawyer thing kind of curtailage you know i was just going to ask you that because he didn't he never the victim never went into the shooter's home he was in the

front yard and then got up on the porch and the porch is about it looks like maybe five inches off the ground i mean it's one step so it's not like he's in the home right not like he's in the home but that's in the within the course of the property that's within the property within the habitation according to texas law and where where where he apparently made what became his fatal mistake i'm telling telling you, David Stokas, there's going to be a problem with that. And here's the problem. Curtilage can be the outhouse. It can be the shed in the backyard. It can be the playhouse of the children. It can be the garage. It can be your whole yard in a fence. So where does stand your ground or your castle law, where does that end? If he's at the edge of the yard, it's in the curtilage, can you shoot him then? Well, I don't say about – see, in terms of using – we now have come to a different issue of whether or not he was entitled to use deadly force.

You can protect your castle, but there's still limitations on whether or not you can use deadly force. You can protect your castle, but there's still limitations on whether or not you can use deadly force. And certainly, typically, again, you cannot use deadly force just for words. And where Reed apparently runs afoul of this situation is when he steps up- Hey, hey, hey, will you use shooter and victim? Because when you say he, there's two he's involved plus there's the girlfriend who's the mother of the child she's screaming somebody's filming it all he double l is breaking loose so it absolutely is when when the guy who ultimately becomes the victim steps up on the porch and then engages in this chest bumping business it's now escalated beyond mere words. And that's the issue that was facing the grand jury. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

I have a question, Karen Stark. What's with the chest bumping? What's, I mean, why? Guys do it all the time. What is that? I would no more run up to Jackie here in the studio and do a chest bump with her than the man in the moon. What is that?

I'd like to see you do a chest bump. Thank you. I'll analyze that in full later. bump with her than the man in the moon what is that i'd like to see you do a chest bug thank you analyze that in full later but but if you look at nancy even in in the honestly in the animal kingdom if you look at gorillas they do that all the time it's it's this aggressive you know way of saying you better back down because something's going to happen yeah and this isn't the friendly chest bump that you see on commercials and at ball games they they're they're really like that on each other they could bite each other's nose off they're that close in anger and then it all goes to hell when he pulls that long gun. You know, to you, Lisa M. Daddio, former police lieutenant,

now she's the director of Center for Advanced Policing at University of New Haven Forensic Science Department. Lisa Daddio, I've said this before, one of my dearest friends is a defense attorney, a female defense attorney. She has a specialty, dopers. You can sell it on the street. You can sell it on the corner. You can be caught with it. You can be a drug lord.

She's nothing but dope. She says she'd rather try a drug lord or defend a killer as opposed to sticking your hand in the middle of a custody fight because those people will come by your house, the lawyer at supper time and take a shot right through your picture window when you walk by. Yes, they get that crazy about as I would about custody. I mean, try to take the twins away from me. You're looking down the wrong end of a barrel would be the way I would suggest it. But that it makes people crazy. Lisa, how many cases have you seen? This could have been settled with words. They could have argued. But now we've got this father. He's got two other

children. He's a father of three dead. Yeah. You know, Nancy, it's such a bizarre thing. And unfortunately, we see it too often. And to your point, it always stems from these domestic custody, like bring children involved and try to keep a child from a parent, whether it's a mom or a dad. Like it goes to a whole certain level where there's no rationalization a lot of times. And it's that whole protecting of the child, I think. But for me, what is concerning, you know, about this case is why does the guy have a rifle? Oh, wait, wait, wait.

Please tell me you're not going Second Amendment on me because I can't. No. We're not doing that. I'm not. Y'all can fight about it, but we have the right to bear arms. It's not going away.

Done. I'm all for the Second Amendment as well, Nancy. However, it comes back to, you're having a verbal dispute with somebody on your property and then it goes from chest pumping or whichever to now a deadly force incident. Now, why bring out a gun? He has the right and the authority to bring out the gun. And the guy that was ultimately the victim was kind of dumb to go toward a guy with a gun, too.

That doesn't mean he should be dead, but it was no doubt a fatal error on his part that the other guy was able to bring out the gun. He didn't break any laws in bringing out the gun. No, he didn't. It's his front porch. He can have as many guns out there as he wants. Hey, Case Wilbanks joining us, KCBD News Channel 11. There's another, another, for lack of a better word, trigger. Didn't the victim, the dead dad, Chad Reed,

say something like, I'm going to kill you? He didn't have a gun. The other guy has a gun. But he said he threatened, I'm going to kill you? He actually, have a gun. The other guy has a gun, but he said he threatened I'm going to kill you. He actually in the video and you can hear him when he brings out the gun, he actually says, I'm going to take that something along the lines of I'm going to take that away from you. Of course, curses at him, calls them another name and then actually reaches for the gun later to, as he said, take it away from him.

That's when they spin around, and now Kyle Caruth is actually away from his home, facing his home. Chad Reed is still on the porch, and then that's when those shots are fired. I'm looking exactly at the transcript. Who was videoing this case? It's actually Jennifer Reed. She had just recently gotten married to Chad Reed. She's in a pickup out in the driveway, so to speak, and is videoing it toward the home. So let me ask you this case, Will Banks.

How does a Texas judge get in the mix? So Kyle Grooth, at the time of this shooting, was married to the 72nd District Judge in Lubbock County. She also covers Crosby County and Marie Caruth. So she was appointed by Governor Greg Abbott to that position. Okay, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. All these names. Okay. So we've got a judge in the mix, state court judge Anne Marie Carruth. She is married to the shooter,

William Kyle Carruth. So Kyle Carruth comes running out with a gun, a long gun, slinging it around, pointing it, and there's nothing in the constitution that says you can't have a gun on your own front porch so he's married to a judge and he guns down chad reed the dad of three okay tell me how why is chad victim, there to start with? So he was there to pick up his youngest child, was actually looking for his youngest child. He was apparently supposed to have custody of the child at 315. You hear that in the video several times. So actually in some court documents filed by Jennifer Reed following the shooting, she claims that Christina, Chad's ex-wife, had kind of lured him there, said that she wanted to see him there to pick up the child.

And then they're arguing over where that child is. She's saying he's not here. And Chad's just there trying to find his youngest child. Okay. You've got the victim, Chad Reed, wife, Jennifer Reed, ex-wife, Christina Reed, and then you've got the state court judge who is married to the shooter. Okay. So you've got the wife, Jennifer Reed, and the ex-wife, Christina Reed. Why would she lure him there?

So that's another claim that Jennifer makes in court documents that Christina lured him there to what Jennifer claims was to be shot, to be murdered. That's in some of the claims that she makes following the shooting. To Dr. Kendall Crowns, Chief Medical Examiner, Tarrant County, Fort Worth. Dr. Kendall Crowns, how many of the autopsies you perform, how many of them relate to domestic violence? Domestic violence is actually fairly common. Right off the top of my head, I couldn't give you a percentage, but I know that it's one of the more common reasons why we see people get into the altercations

that wind up getting into... Ending up on a slab in your office? And then getting murdered, correct. It's very common. Guys, a horrific moment when a gun-wielding man guns down his partner's ex-husband after a heated child custody row. Take a listen to our friend Kristi Harton, 11 News. This is Kristina Reid on the right and Chad Reid in green on the left.

Jennifer Reid wrote in the document that Christina Reid and Kyle Carruth were having an affair. And according to the filing, Chad Reid was there to pick up his youngest son. You keep trying to keep my son from me. I'm fixing to drag you and Marie and everybody else into court. This is when Carruth steps outside with a gun. This is on video. Yeah. Leave! Do it!

Right now! Seeing the weapon, Reed appears to tell Carruth he better use the gun or Reed will take it and use it on him. Chest to chest, the men shout at each other. Then Carruth lowers the weapon to fire a shot at the porch by Reed's feet. Reed advances on Carruth, and the two start struggling over the weapon. That's when Carruth gets a couple yards away from Reed, raises the weapon, and fires.

We are not showing you the next portion of the video. In it, Reed's body is lying motionless on the porch. Case Wilbanks, KCBD. How many children are in the home at the time Daddy is gunned down dead? Well, actually, that's something that we still don't know because actually that was Kyle Carew's place of business, apparently Christina's place of business, and the child that Chad was looking for, she says, was not there. And in the video, you can hear Chad saying that he has sent police to Christina's mother's home because he believes that's where the child actually is.

So we don't believe that actually children are inside at that time. Well, that's good. It's good and bad. It's good because children didn't witness daddy getting gunned down in the front yard. And it's bad in the sense that why would he have been sent to a place of business to pick up a child that wasn't there? It kind of sounds like he was lured there. Right. And that's some of the claims that Jennifer makes in court documents. That's why that she was actually involving Kyle Cruz's business in some of the suits.

He's the developer in this area, home construction business. And so that's why she involves those businesses in some of the suits that she made. And this structure that looks like a home, what business is there? We believe it's his development business. In some of the court documents, actually, Chad Reed's family says that that was owned by Cruz's parents, that home. And apparently this is where he operates out of. Developing what? Homes, like home construction, that sort of thing. So there are four key people here. You've got the dead dad, who is Chad Reed. You've got his wife, Jennifer Reed. You've got his ex-wife, Christina Reed. And read. The guy she's dating now, the shooter, Kyle Carruth.

So I've got one woman, one odd woman out, the state court judge, Ann Marie Carruth. Who is she with? Are they divorced or divorcing? They have. They were in the process at the time of this shooting that finalized on November 19th. You know, I'm very curious. When these charges were brought up, was anyone making the charging decisions connected to the state court judge in any way? Well, actually, that is what I see. If I may, no charges have been brought. Right. There were no charges.

And that's, of course, the issue. And one of the important things that I've yet to understand is why the police never arrested this guy in the first place. You think it had anything to do with the judge's ex? I think that he and the judge were still married at that particular point in time. Okay. I smell a rat right now, guys. Take a listen to our cut nine. This is Grace Morris, KLBK. Where's my son?

I'm recording it. Oh my God. Oh my God. After their initial investigation, LPD did not charge or arrest Carruth. Jennifer also releasing on Wednesday a petition to get full custody of Chad's children from their mother, Chad's ex-wife Christina Reed. Saying in the affidavit, Christina has quote, endangered the physical and mental well-being of the children by permitting them to be in the presence of the man who killed their father. But Kyle Carruth's attorney, David Gwynn, says what Kyle did was done in self defense, saying quote all Texans may lawfully

brandish a firearm to protect themselves, their property and their business. Careful study of the video showed Kyle's gun was brandished but never pointed at Reid. It was only after Mr. Reid said, I'll take your gun and slinging him across the patio like a

scarecrow then stepped toward him. Then Mr. Carruth pointed the gun at Mr. Reed. I guess it's all a matter of interpretation, which I find best left to a jury. To Dr. Kendall Krause, chief medical examiner, Tarrant County, Fort Worth. What were the injuries precisely and how long did it take Chad Reed to bleed out dead? Well, his injuries were he had gunshot wounds of his body and it probably would have taken him a matter of minutes to bleed out from the injuries he received. What do you think he would have been aware of lying there in the front yard dying? I mean, as he's slowly bleeding out, he's probably aware of his surrounding and he's just slowly losing consciousness,

and everything's kind of going gray-black until he passes out, but he's probably aware of all the screaming and the yelling around him and the fact that he's been shot, and he's probably in pain at that point, too. Karen Stark joining me, renowned psychologist joining us out of Manhattan. Karen, and this is the way death comes. It comes on an afternoon pickup of your son. It comes at the workplace by a guy with a gun. It comes in a mugging or a carjacking you never expect.

It comes when you walk in a gas station to pay for your gas, and somebody's in there with a gun on the manager. It just is such a harsh dichotomy because when you look at the video, it seems to be a bright, sunny afternoon. Everything's great. The world is spinning. The birds are singing. And bam, a father of three is dead.

Over what? The son being at the wrong location it just it's very disturbing yeah nancy it's especially disturbing because you're not talking about an accident you know it's not a sudden car crash or a hijacking or someone you walk into a restaurant here there are two men that are arguing and it's really hard to understand why this because especially custody case children involved nobody is rational why didn't it stay an argument between the husband and the wife i don't understand why the boyfriend who didn't even live with her is there all of a sudden getting himself involved. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

To David Shostokas joining us, high-profile lawyer and author. David, is this a legitimate self-defense? The question always becomes one of reasonable, Nancy. And usually that has to do with whether or not you can use deadly force in an altercation with essentially an unarmed individual. But this has always been fairly strange from the beginning because from the beginning, in a typical circumstance, when somebody is we have a dead guy and we have a guy with a gun.

The guy with the gun gets locked up, and that never happened to begin with. So this has always been very, very strange from the beginning. And so then after the three days of the testimony before the grand jury, the grand jury decided that there was going to be a no bill, that is, that they would not issue an indictment. And that was also rather curious because self-defense or even castle doctrines are what one calls an affirmative defense. That is, the defense has to put on evidence of that situation. And now here's an easy way to explain it, David Shostakis. For instance, in insanity, that is an as david just pointed out affirmative defense in that you say to plead insanity you say i did it but i was insane

so it's a proactive affirmative defense as in castle doctrine you say i shot i did it but it was castle doctrine in other words david shistokas i'm surprised quote the guy with the gun wasn't at least arrested david yeah that's what's that's what's curious about this whole thing from the beginning uh nats is that he was not arrested from the beginning. And you have to believe that his status as the husband of a local judge may have had some impact on the decision. Guys, I want you to take a listen to what the defense lawyer for the shooter, Kyle Carruth, has to say. These are our friends at KCBD. Listen to the lawyer. Gwynn said Reed should have left the scene.

Mr. Carruth came out the door, the gun pointed in the air, told him to leave. Most people would have. Mr. Reed then chose to advance on Mr. Carruth. They were face to face. Mr. Reed said he'd take the gun and kill him with it. The gun went off into the patio. That still didn't deter Mr. Reed. He then grabbed the gun to try to kill Kyle and slung Kyle like a rag 180 degrees to his patio. And you watch the video slowly. You see that left knee coming up. Kyle's coming at him again. You know, split-second reaction. He shot twice.

Threat ended. According to court filings, Chad's widow, Jennifer, says she should be granted custody of the children for their well-being. She claims the children are currently, quote, in the presence of the man that murdered their father. This case is now in the hands of the Texas Attorney General's office. No arrests were made after the shooting, and no criminal charges have been filed. You know, that's not exactly Case Wilbanks. Anchor and reporter KCBD at News Channel 11, that's not exactly the way I see the shooting, the actual pulling the trigger, the shooter is at a distance from the dead victim. It's not like he's about to get punched in the face, but on the other hand, it's all happening so quickly. To dissect it by milliseconds isn't really fair. So what was the actual threat as you see the video case

at the time the trigger is pulled? I believe it was because at that point, as the attorney describes it, they were slung around and you see that in the video. But now Carruth is away from his home and Chad Reed is between his home and him. And so he may perceive that as a threat that now Chad Reed has the upper hand because maybe he's in control of the situation next to his home. But he's still unarmed. Reed is unarmed. Correct. It was just immediately after he was slung around, he pulls the trigger and fires. So what was going through his head at that time, I'm not sure. But that's kind of the setup there that Caruth is now maybe in defense of his home because Chad Reed may have the upper hand, so to speak.

Yeah, yeah. His business. Lisa Danio, I agree with David Shostokos in that Castle Doctrine is an affirmative defense. And that's something for a, I would think, a finder of fact, like a grand jury to decide. They're finders of fact. But not to even take the shooter into custody? None of that makes sense to me, to be quite honest with you.

You know, listening to everything, excuse me, and everybody's viewpoints and given the microscope that law enforcement in general is under throughout this country, why are we not dotting all our I's and crossing all our T's? And especially when you know the parties in this case are connected to the community, you'd want to do everything by the book and leave it up to the triers of fact, as you pointed out, Nancy. You know, that's the key. To case Wilbanks, does the judge, Judge Anne-Marie Carruth, have a child by Kyle Carruth? That I'm not aware of, but I don't believe so. There was never any mention of any child in any divorce proceedings or anything like that. I think you're right. Guys, take a listen to our cut 10. This is Ryan Chandler, KAMC.

After nearly three weeks of searching for answers, Chad Reed's widow tells us she's ready to end the speculation and show the public exactly what happened when Kyle Carruth fatally shot Chad Reed on November 5th. She claims Kyle Carruth should be arrested for murder, yet no charges have been filed. While Kyle Carruth's lawyer, David Nguyen, has also shown us a video from another perspective, saying he believes that it supports Kyle's claim of self-defense. Call 911. Call 911.

Call 911. Call 911. Oh, my God. Call 911. Call 911. When you look at it very, very carefully and dissect it by the millisecond, I don't know if the police decision not to immediately arrest Carruth is going to stand. There are new developments, reads widow seeking custody of the children. To you, Case Wilbanks,

what is the basis for that? Well, she says that she should have custody of the children because Christina Reed has them in, you know, the premises, if you will, or just with Kyle Carruth, because they are together, who she calls, you know, the murderer of her husband and saying the children shouldn't be with him. She also, you know, claimed in court documents that she should have custody because of Kyle Carruth's mental state. She believes he is not in his right mind and she should have custody of the children. That case was actually dismissed later on in January of this year. And so through her attorney, Jennifer Reed hopes that blood relatives of the children will do something and intervene in the situation. Well, this case did go to a special grand jury in Lubbock County, Texas. Take a listen to our cut 13 KCBD. Fast forward a couple more weeks, Reed's mother

and three children filed another wrongful death lawsuit against Carruth. The state assigned a judge from San Antonio to oversee those proceedings. Then this past Tuesday, state prosecutors convened a special grand jury in Lubbock County. They presented the panel with testimony from witnesses, evidence that was not publicly released. Thursday evening, that panel elected to not indict Carruth on any criminal charges related to Reed's death. With the criminal proceedings out of the way, Karen and Abner, Jennifer Reed's attorney promises to pursue the family's civil actions aggressively. To Case Will Banks, KCBD, what was the grand jury's thinking? I mean,

it's a secret grand jury. All grand juries are secret. But what was the thinking? Well, the attorney general's office says that they were actually deliberating over this case for about three days, presenting the case with several eyewitnesses. The family of Chad Reed, we know Jennifer Reed, testified to the grand jury. And then the attorney general's office says that there was additional evidence that was not previously released to the public. We don't know what that is, of course. But apparently they decided that Kyle Cruz had the right to shoot Chad Reed and shouldn't be charged with any sort of, you know, criminal charges, whether that be murder or anything else. Who knows how this is ultimately going to shake out right now? A grand jury has chosen not to indict the shooter, but civil lawsuits are piling up. What will we learn from the civil

lawsuits? Because to you, David Shostokos, in civil lawsuits, since there's no criminal charges, all the parties that are still living can be brought in to testify. They can't plead the fifth. What if they say something so damning that it has to go back to a grand jury? Well, it can go back to a grand jury. And to that extent, Kyle Carruth, the shooter, is in a position to continue to plead the Fifth just because this grand jury decided to issue a no bill doesn't mean the prosecutors cannot go back to another grand jury if they have additional evidence. And to that extent, Carruth can continue to plead the Fifth Amendment should he decide to do so. So that may have some stymieing effect on the progress of the civil lawsuit.

Absolutely. But remember when Simpson, O.J. Simpson is a great example, submitted to deposition, his criminal trial was already over. He had been acquitted and he could not be retried under double jeopardy. And here's the catch-22. In this case, the shooter has never been tried and acquitted. He only made it unscathed through a green jury. So Shostakovich is absolutely correct. He can still plead the fifth, which is the right to remain silent under questioning by police. Guys, take a listen to our cut six, KCBD 11. Reed's mother and three children filed another wrongful death lawsuit against Carruth. The state assigned a judge from San Antonio to oversee those proceedings. Then this past Tuesday, state prosecutors convened a special grand jury

in Lubbock County. They presented the panel with testimony from witnesses, evidence that was not publicly released. Thursday evening, that panel elected to not indict Carruth on any criminal charges related to Reed's death. With the criminal proceedings out of the way, Jennifer Reed's attorney promises to pursue the family's civil actions aggressively. It is up for the courts to schedule when those proceedings will resume. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace Crumstory signing off. This is an iHeart Podcast.