Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Gypsy Rose Blanchard: Free

Episode Date: January 6, 2024

More than two years shy of her 10-year sentence, Gypsy Rose Blanchard is free. Blanchard was convicted of second-degree murder after she admitted to having her boyfriend, Nicholas Godejohn, kill her mother, Dee Dee Blanchard. Now she is out from behind bars at the Chillicothe Correctional Center.   Dee Dee Blanchard is believed to have suffered from Munchausen by proxy — which caused forcing her daughter to use a wheelchair and subjecting her to unnecessary medical treatments, all to foster attention to Dee Dee herself. Before the murder, Gypsy Rose Blanchard’s mother allegedly isolated her and tied her to a bed to stop her from escaping.     Gypsy Rose Blanchard is now married and picked up from prison by her husband. Her book, “Released: Conversations on the Eve of Freedom," is expected to come out on January 9. Joining Nancy Grace today: Joe Scott Morgan – Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, “Blood Beneath My Feet,” and Host: “Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan;” Twitter: @JoScottForensic Dr. Daniel Bober – Forensic Psychiatrist, Chief of Psychiatry Memorial Regional Healthcare Systems, Assistant Clinical Professor at Yale University School of Medicine; Instagram at drdanielbober Kathleen Murphy – North Carolina Family Attorney; Twitter: @RalDivorceLaw John Lemley - CrimeStories Investigative Reporter  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. In the last days, Gypsy Rose Blanchard is released from prison eight years after she convinces her ex to murder her Munchausen by proxy mom. Her teacher husband whisked her away in a Cadillac sedan straight to a budget hotel. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thanks for being with us here at Crime Stories and at SiriusXM 111. Now, Gypsy Rose Blanchard has been a conundrum,

a mystery for so long. True. She orchestrated the murder of her mother in cold blood. However, and I think I can count on one hand how many times I have had a however in a statement like that. Gypsy Rose Blanchard spent her entire childhood being forced to pose as a wheelchair-bound invalid, her mother convincing the world this little girl suffered from leukemia and muscular dystrophy. When I say had to pose as an invalid and be in a wheelchair, that's not all. Her mother forced her to undergo multiple surgeries,

and there was nothing wrong with her at all. She wouldn't let her go to regular school. She would not let her interact with other people. She lost her teeth. Her whole childhood was ruined. Her mother shaved her head, pumped her full of drugs. It's just terrible. In her mind, the only way she could get free from her mother is to convince her deeply in love internet boyfriend, creep into their Springfield, Missouri home and stab 48-year-old mom, Dee Dee, dead. for 10 years for the matricide, that's murder of your mother, but got early parole after friends

and family and people from all over the country begged and begged the parole board to take into account the horrific abuse, the needless operations and procedures she endured after being paraded at charity events and fundraisers, getting money from all sorts of donors. Just horrible, horrible treatment. Her whole childhood. Just think of all the needles, the surgeries, the infusions, just brutal. Dee Dee, even the mother, conned doctors into removing Gypsy Rose's salivary glands. I mean, shaving her daughter's head to make it look as if she had leukemia and was taking treatment for leukemia. I mean, how did this whole debacle begin? goes so far back to the time when the world wept with Gypsy Blanchard's mother, Dee Dee, over the pain her daughter suffered with leukemia, multiple surgeries, the feeding tubes. Listen.

It's been a blessing. People have been so nice to us. It feels like we finally came home. It is wonderful. It's so beautiful and happy and home. A home that this family was desperately in need of. You are hearing about a brand new home given to Gypsy Rose Blanchard, the little girl suffering so badly. Her mother, her full-time caretaker. This was after Hurricane Katrina devastated their home. And not only that, Habitat for Humanity steps in. With no home and Gypsy Rose battling both muscular dystrophy and leukemia, the St. Aurora team went to work securing this rent-free home for the family and cleaning it up. It just proves that happy endings are not just in fairy tales.

They're real. You're hearing the words of Dee Dee, that's Gypsy Blanchard's mother, before she was murdered. That's right, Gypsy's mother, Dee Dee, murdered, stabbed multiple times in her own bed as she lay sleeping. So what happened to the fairy tale? I heard her scream once, and there was more screaming, but not like the kind in a horror film, just like a startled scream. And she asked, who was it that was in the bedroom? And she called out to my name about three or four times.

And at that point, I wanted to go help her so bad, but I was so afraid to get up. And then everything just went quiet. Were you excited that your new life was about to begin? I was excited, but at the same time, it was overwhelming. Did you feel a rush of joy? It would come in times of happiness, little spurts of happiness, but I would have breakdowns where I'd start crying, feeling remorse, guilt, also missing her at the same time. You're hearing from our friends at ABC 2020, and you're hearing from Gypsy Rose Blanchard, the little girl that we thought had leukemia and so many other ailments, confined to a wheelchair with the mind of a five-year-old. What happened?

Joining me, in addition to Joseph Scott Morgan, death investigator, Dr. Daniel Bober, forensic psychiatrist, family lawyer with a personal experience with Munchausen by proxy, Kathleen Murphy, joining us out of North Carolina, right now to CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter John Limley. So how did this little girl, Gypsy Blanchard, she's bald from her leukemia treatment, she's frail, she's pale, she's sickly, she's confined to a wheelchair. How does she get charged with murder? For the first few years of her life, Gypsy Rose Blanchard was this normal toddler, vibrant, full of energy. But by the time she was eight years old, Dee Dee had told Gypsy that she had leukemia, she was paralyzed, she had muscular dystrophy, and she was also using a wheelchair and had a feeding tube. Over time, these communities in which they would live would just embrace the two of them.

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I got to ask Dr. Bober a question. To Dr. Daniel Bober, of course, you have to become a medical doctor before you can become a psychiatrist. He is a forensic psychiatrist. Dr. Daniel Bober, explain to me what is a feeding tube and how does that work? Well, a feeding tube, Nancy, can go, you know, obviously down your throat or there can even be an incision in your abdomen. It's basically for people that cannot take nutrition by mouth and they're losing weight and they're becoming emaciated. So they require a feeding tube to sustain adequate nutrition. So you have a feeding tube put down your mouth? Down your throat. And what was the

other one? It could be through a nasogastric tube or it can be an incision in your abdomen that actually... Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait a minute. Look, I'm just a JD. You're the MD. What did you just say? Don't talk so fast, Dr. Bober. What did you say? So, Nancy, a nasogastric tube that goes down your nose and into your stomach or an incision in your stomach where the tube is placed where the nutrition is delivered directly into the stomach. Okay, Dr. Bober, so this girl has a feeding tube. Her teeth were falling out. I don't know why her teeth were falling out. I just assumed it was from all the chemotherapy and the radiation and everything she was going through to try and stop the leukemia.

What kind of treatments does a child undergo when they have leukemia? What does the hospital do to them? Well, very often they will receive chemotherapy, which is, you know, toxic to pretty much every organ. It's actually very sad. And that, you know, the teeth falling out could be due to, you know, poor oral hygiene. It could be due to direct toxic effects of chemicals that the mother gave to the child. Because remember, these people that have Munchausen's by proxy, you know, they're trying to make their loved ones sick. And very often themselves, they will have a history of abuse or marital problems. They're often healthcare professionals. There's a lot of telltale signs that we see in the hospital with people like this. For example, they will never leave the child's side. They tend to become very

close. They have very poor boundaries with the medical staff. And although it's a rare disorder, we do see it occasionally, and there are definitely some extreme warning signs. And Nancy, no one knew at the time, but Dee Dee was in order to give Gypsy these symptoms and to make her body just shut down. She was preparing food for her poisoned with Roundup Weed Killer. OK, well, say that one more time. I just the words Roundup Weed Killer caught my attention. What did you say? During this time, Dee Dee was actually, in order to make her daughter appear as sick as Anderson, claiming, quote, it's really awesome to have family time after a prison release. Well, she then goes on to talk about her love life. The quote D is on fire.

Gypsy Rose Blanchard fights back at she calls jealous trolls, revealing she and her husband are having sex every night after her release from prison for murdering her mother. Well, I could have done without that bit of information. That's stuck in my head forever. But another thing that's stuck in my head forever is all the horrific treatment she endured at the hands of her own mother. You know, it rocked the whole community because so many people have been involved in trying to help the little girl, Gypsy Rose Blanchard, who was suffering from so many ailments. And then bam, they find out the mother, Dee Dee, has been murdered and the daughter is gone, has been kidnapped, has been taken away. Now, if you talk to Gypsy's bio dad, he said that Dee Dee Blanchard deserved what she got because she had been such a horrible, horrible mother. Think about it. For all

the years, years, she kept her daughter in a wheelchair, poisoning her, as John Lindley tells us, with Roundup weed killer so she would affect the symptoms of leukemia and other deadly ailments. There were constant fundraisers. Habitat for Humanity builds them a new home. She was everyone's cause celeb to help Gypsy Rose, the little girl with so many ailments, food, money, clothing, vehicles, a home. The works were given to this family, to Dee Dee, the mother, until it all ended. John Limley, explain to me what happened. How was Dee Dee murdered? When a friend of the Blanchards called police, police accompanied this person to the house.

Police, since they didn't have any sort of paperwork, any sort of search warrant, they couldn't go in. However, they said the neighbor could. So the neighbor climbs through a window, goes through the house, doesn't find anything. Well, meanwhile, paperwork does come through. Police are able to get into the house. And that's when they find Dee Dee's body. She has been stabbed multiple times. They say it is a brutal scene. She was stabbed in bed, defenseless,

when she suffered multiple stab wounds. We're talking about Dee Dee Story, the mother of Gypsy Blanchard. Joining me right now, Joseph Scott Morgan, professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University and author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, Joe Scott. How do you tell what happened? I mean, how can detectives, specifically medical examiner, but detectives as well, look at this and say these are not self-inflicted stab wounds? Well, the chance that, and the key here is that you use plural form, wounds. It's rather rare that people will self-inflict stab wounds, but that an individual has, unless they're in some kind of frenzied psychotic state,

if an individual has multiple stab wounds, you know that this is at the hand of another more than likely. Also, this kind of frenzied killing that you see like this is many times what we refer to as an overkill. I think what's particularly interesting about this case, Nancy, is that the room apparently is saturated, the bed in particular is saturated. We get an idea that the event took place here and solely here. And then on top of that, she's been down several days, apparently. She's in a moderate early stages of decomposition at this point as well. I wonder why Gypsy's father says

Dee Dee deserved it. Listen. As she got older, Dee Dee tells me that she's trying to get her this heart monitor that she'd have to wear while she slept because she stopped breathing in her monitor that she'd have to wear while she slept because she stopped breathing in her sleep or she'd have seizures in the middle of the night. And she was telling me she was bringing her for tests and everything and that she had sleep apnea.

She acted so scared she wouldn't even leave her with me for an hour or anything, so she was with her all the time. I thought she was the best mom in the world. When Gypsy was around four, five, six, Dee Dee started telling me that she's got some problems with her eyes, seizures. She would say that the seizures would affect her eyes, so they would conduct a surgery where they would straighten

her eye out, and then she would have another seizure, and her eye would get crooked again. Dee Dee was telling me that when she'd have these seizures, it would knock her back mentally a couple years. You are hearing from Gypsy's father, Rod Blanchard, describing how Dee Dee, the mother told him their daughter was having severe seizures and all of her ailments.

But how did it end in murder? To Joe Scott Morgan, we've talked about the physicalities of the murder, but it would be very, very difficult, I think, for Gypsy herself to pull it off unless she attacked her mom in the middle of the night in her sleep. I want to talk about the mother for a moment. Dr. Daniel Bober, forensic psychiatrist joining us. Dr. Bober, I've dealt with many cases where the mother has Munchausen by proxy. Now, this is what I understand it to be in lay terms before you start speeding at warp speed before me. Munchausen disease is named after Baron von Munchausen. And in our common parlance, it is when you draw attention to yourself by faking ailments. And some people go to great extremes to fake ailments to get

attention. All right. That seems a little benign, you know, oh, I'm hurting. But people go to all kind of crazy extremes like faking cancer, shaving their head, putting themselves in wheelchairs, setting up fake GoFundMe accounts, the works. Munchausen by proxy is when you make somebody else appear sick so you get attention as the caregiver. And most recently, we had Salt, S-A-L-T, mom, who would give huge amounts of salt in her child's feeding tube, which he didn't need, by the way, or his intravenous tube. And it would put him in great pain till he died.

And she was a mommy blogger talking about all she went through taking care of him and what she was suffering watching him suffer. This child was in so much pain he would rear up off the hospital bed in convulsions of pain, and she sat there and watched. That's an example of Munchausen by proxy. Oh, Dr. Bober, I remember another case where a mom would feed the child poison in their soup, in their oatmeal, and they caught them on video,

caught the mom doing it on video. Now, that's my interpretation of Munchausen by proxy. You tell me. So the clinical term for Munchausen by proxy is called factitious disorder by another. And what it means is that you're playing the sick role, or in the case of Munchausen by proxy, you're giving someone else an illness purely for attention, purely to play the sick role, which is contrasted with malingering, which we see in people who are antisocial, whether they're malingering for money or malingering to stay out of prison. It's purely for secondary gain. So the illness itself serves the role of getting attention, and that is the whole point.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Gypsy Rose Blanchard walks free. Many people thought she should never have gone to jail at all for the murder of her tortuous mother, Dee Dee, after literally years of abusing her child in the worst way. Your mom's passed away, okay? And she's deceased, all right? No. Hang on. Okay. No. Hang on. Hang on. Listen to me for just a second, okay?

What happened with your mom that night? I don't know. What happened with my mom at all? Okay, you. I can't believe what my mom. I know you do. Sweetheart, I have no doubt that you love your mom. Why did they hurt her? You are hearing just then Gypsy Rose Blanchard herself by a Waukesha County, Wisconsin, deputy sheriff talking to her,

trying to find out how her mom, Dee Dee, ends up stabbed multiple times in a frenzy, dead in her own bed. But then another figure emerges. It says Nicholas. Do you go by Nick, Nicholas, something different? I prefer, usually by my family I'll be called Nicholas, but by friends and other people I usually would be called Nick. What would you like for me to call you when I'm talking to you? Nick.

Nick, okay. And so is that the first time that your mom ever met your girlfriend? Yeah. Okay, I guess she's your girlfriend, Gypsy. Yeah, she is. And you love her? Oh, do I have her? So we're going to go down two paths here, okay?

And that is just you're going to have to be honest with me. Because if you love her, if you love Gypsy, then you're not going to let Gypsy get in trouble without you being there to help her, okay? I understand. Do you want to do the right thing by Gypsy if you love her? All the truth is I worship her. I know you do.

There's no way I wouldn't do it. I know. The truth is, okay, I'll admit it. I did actually... Stop. Come on. I will admit it. I know.

Okay. The only reason I did it is because I did it for me and her. That's the real reason I did it. I would have never did it if it was not for me and her. Okay. You are hearing from the investigation discovery documentary, Gypsy's Revenge. That's Gypsy's boyfriend speaking, being interviewed by a Waukesha County, Wisconsin,

deputy sheriff investigator. How in the world, John Limley, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter, did this girl who has been in a wheelchair with her head shaved in a feeding tube, meet a boyfriend. How did that happen? Nancy, as hard as Dee Dee may have tried to keep Gypsy as a little girl, she had, of course, over time become a woman. And as she got older, Gypsy became curious about life outside the little pink house that she shared with her mom. As time went

on, Dee Dee began exerting more and more control over her. But behind her back, Gypsy was able to create an online dating profile. She eventually connected with this young man, Nicholas Gojajan, a man from Big Bend, Wisconsin. The two fell in love and had a secret online relationship for about two and a half years. Two and a half years. It's amazing to me she could do anything secret at all from her mother. Take a listen to this. I'm not sure all the names of the medication that my mom was making me take, but there was a lot of ones that basically

just put me under a sedative state. The medications did affect my teeth. They started to deteriorate and some of them had to be extracted. I had many, many surgeries. I've had my salivary glands removed because my mother said that I drooled. I had a feeding tube placement in my tummy. I had multiple eye surgeries on my right and left eye, ear surgeries, a muscle biopsy to find out why my legs didn't work, and a surgery to make me not throw up anymore. John Limley with me, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. I don't know how she could have any secret relationship online if she was under all those medications and undergoing all those

surgeries. As a matter of fact, though, isn't it true that at one point, Gypsy, the little girl, managed to run away? She did. In fact, she appeared at a neighbor's door standing on her own, which was a big shock to the neighbor, saying that she needed to get to a bus station because she wanted to go meet the man she loved. Well, apparently the mother, Dee Dee Blanchard, caught her, brought her home, chained her to a bed, starved her, and told all the friends and relations that Gypsy was lying so they would not help her. Listen to 2020. What kind of mom was she?

Very protective. Do you think she protected you? No, not in certain ways, yes. In other ways, no. I think that she was very sick in her mind. For a long time, I believed that we were best friends. And when I was younger, she was my best friend. She was your only friend? Yes, other than my stuffed animals. And so I thought that she was a great mother. No complaints. We got along so perfect.

You know, I saw her as an angel that can do no wrong. What happens when she got upset with you? It would go into an argument that would last a couple of days, or it could be something where she wouldn't feed me for two days or so. Was she ever physical with you? It started to be physical in 2011. She would hit me with a coat hanger sometimes. Did you ever fight back? No, because I was too afraid to. Gypsy says she did try and run away once, but Dee Dee found her a few hours later. She physically chained you to the bed?

She physically chained me to the bed and put bells on the doors and told anybody that I probably would have trusted that I was going through a phase and to tell her if I was doing anything behind her back. Did you ever consider in a public place, if you stood up out of your wheelchair and walked, Dee Dee's fraud would be completely exposed? I honestly didn't think about that. It never crossed your mind? No.

I was always so afraid of her. Afraid of the consequences after. You're hearing Gypsy herself speaking on ABC's 2020, describing being chained to the bed by her mother the one time she did get away. To Joseph Scott Morgan joining me, forensics expert, death investigator, and author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, Joe Scott, I find it very difficult to take in that this girl who went through all this torture at the hands of her own mother for so many years actually is doing hard time for her mother's death. Is there a way to prove the child was chained to the bed? Yeah, I think that there would be, particularly

if she had, if it was a chronic status that she was in. Let's say, for instance, she was bound around her ankles or her wrist, and there's scarring that might, in fact, be consistent with having had this area abraded over a long period of time. There might be evidences there. In addition to just this litany of other things that have been perpetrated upon this young girl, you can tie that back with all this other history that we have, and it paints a very, very grim picture. So I'm not understanding, too. John Limley, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter.

How did Gypsy, the little girl, end up behind bars for many, many years? Gypsy and Nicholas Godejohn decided to finally meet in person for the first time in March of 2015 at a movie theater. She was dressed as Cinderella. He as Prince Charming. And it seems that very soon thereafter in their communications online, there was a plot going. At that point, Gypsy said she had had enough. She didn't hate her mother, but she wanted her mother dead. So they began plotting a time that he could come into the house while Dee Dee was taking Gypsy to a routine

hospital appointment. And that's where Go-To-John lay in wait for the time that Gypsy could give him the signal that her mother had gone to sleep. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. After a nationwide campaign, Gypsy Rose Blanchard walks free from jail after orchestrating the murder of her own mother. But that's not the whole story. It wasn't until I saw my attorney for the first time. And he tells me that there's been no medical records that says I have cancer, and it shocked me. I don't have cancer? It confused me so much. So what other illnesses don't I have?

He tells me, for the most part, he thinks I'm perfectly healthy and that a lot of this is made up. I was happy to know that I'm perfectly healthy, but at the same time, it hurt because it's like my whole world had been tossed up. And I realized that my mother wasn't who I thought she was. You are hearing from the Investigation Discovery Special, Gypsy's Revenge. She had no idea, Kathleen Murphy, North Carolina family lawyer, that she was perfectly healthy? It is a matter of dependency and isolation. I saw it firsthand with a foster child, whereby the only person this little boy had that he could depend on was his mother. And she isolated him and made him dependent and love only her for the attention.

And it was such a powerful force in this little boy's life that he could never believe that his own mother would hold him. And she did. It's just so hard for me to take it in to dr daniel bober forensic psychiatrist and medical doctor i guess you know having been fed roundup weed killer and going through the grueling regimen of chemotherapy or radiation all those years being fed through a feeding tube not really getting real food and being brainwashed by your own mother. I guess she did believe it. Yes, Nancy, not only the physical changes that occur, but the psychological changes, almost the same way that sort of the Stockholm syndrome, where hostages sort of come to become emotionally dependent on their captors. It's a very similar phenomenon. I'm not sure how she tricked the hospitals,

Dr. Bober. How could you pull that off? Oh, I do know this. Isn't it true, John Lindley, she wouldn't allow Gypsy to speak to the doctors? She was the one that always talked to the doctors? Absolutely. In fact, she would not leave the room if outside people were with her daughter. She kept her right there. In fact, Gypsy has said that she would always hold Gypsy's hand. And if Gypsy ever hinted that she might not be as sick as her mom said she was, her mom would squeeze her hand tighter and tighter until she just shut up, essentially. Wow. Wow. We also know that many records were lost in Katrina, according to Dee Dee Blanchard, the mother. So she'll hospital hop. She'll go from hospitals affected by Katrina,

relocate with the sick daughter, and say all the records had been lost. So, Dr. Bober, how do you fake ailments and even trick doctors? Because doctors are not looking for it. They assume, again, that when a mother tells them what's going on, they get, by default, instant credibility. Only when you start to see some of these suspicious things, like the mother never leaving the side,

and the mother always wanting to be involved in all the conversations with the medical staff, and just the numerous ailments and no explanation. Do you start to become suspicious? And I've actually been involved in investigations in this sort of thing where they'll actually put cameras in the room under police investigation for the court order to actually observe the parent trying to make the child ill by poisoning them with something. So it happens. It's just very rare. And I don't think a lot of doctors are looking for it. Take a listen to this. Gypsy Rose and boyfriend Nicholas go to John questioned. So Gypsy knew you were going to kill her mother because Gypsy asked you to. Why did she ask you to do that? Did you kill your mom? No, no, sir. Did you help? No, sir. Nicholas, kill your mom? No, sir. No, sir. Did you have knowledge that Nicholas was going to kill your mom? No, sir. Before he did? Yes, sir.

Okay, good morning. I want to specify at the beginning of this press conference that this is an ongoing investigation. The prosecutor has filed charges this morning for first-degree murder on two suspects. We're still investigating the extent of the relationship, but it has been referred to as boyfriend-girlfriend. I wonder to Joseph Scott Morgan why the doctors that mistreated them, mistreated Gypsy, aren't being sued. I mean, how could they not know that she was healthy? Yeah, that is a big question. Dr. Bober was mentioning that doctors don't always look. They're not criminal investigators. They're not looking to tie things back from this perspective. They're generally looking at some kind of natural disease process

or maybe acute trauma and trying to define it that way. We had mentioned her being chained to a bed earlier. A doctor is not going to look at these scars on the wrist and just automatically assume, remember, these people are not forensic pathologists, and automatically assume that there is chronic habitual abuse in this family going on. To John Limley, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter, what do you know about the doctors? There was one doctor, a pediatric neurologist named Dr. Flasterstein, who believed Gypsy was fully capable of walking on her own. And he actually wrote in his notes that he suspected Munchausen by proxy, says it was only the second such possible case he had ever come across. He learned of Dee Dee's murder at the hands of Gypsy and Nicholas Gojijon later when a former nurse emailed him the news story and he said, poor Gypsy, she suffered

all those years and for absolutely no reason. Is it true, John Limley, that Gypsy Blanchard is the Wisconsin man now charged in the murder of Dee Dee Blanchard, that's murder one, says that he feels his ex-girlfriend, Gypsy Blanchard, used him to get rid of her mother. The charges would result in life behind bars. Go to John from Big Bend, Wisconsin, is charged with first-degree murder in the death and armed criminal action for allegedly stabbing and killing 48-year-old Dee Dee Blanchard. He claims he loved Gypsy to the point where he would do anything to save her from her mother. In the last days, Gypsy Rose Blanchard is released from prison eight years after she convinces her ex to murder her Munchhausen by proxy mom. Gypsy Rose Blanchard, finally free.

Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast. free. Goodbye friend.