Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Has Serial Killer Dennis Rader Struck Again? Part 2

Episode Date: September 1, 2023

When Dennis Rader, the serial killer dubbed BTK, was arrested in 2005, lots of documentation was found by the Wichita police: documentation in the form of his own writings, journals, and an unpublished book manuscript. The manuscript is thought to be a description of the murders BTK viewed as “successful." There were Polaroids of Rader dressed like his victims and in the “state” in which their murders occurred… bound, partially buried, or hanging upside down.   The  Osage County Sheriff’s Office investigators have poured over Rader’s writings looking for links to local unsolved crimes, and the information inside led police to search the property where Rader and his family lived.  During their search of the property, investigators found " trophies" from at least one woman. Investigators also found chains apparently used for bondage, along with C-clips.  C-clips can shorten chains or be used to secure a person’s legs or feet. We know that a pantyhose ligature was found.  Other items found have not been described publicly.  Joining Nancy Grace Today: Tjuana Boulanger- Friend of Cynthia (Cindy) Dawn Kinney Dale Carson– High-profile Criminal Defense Attorney (Jacksonville), Former FBI Agent & Former Police Officer (Miami-Dade County); Author: “Arrest-Proof Yourself; Twitter: @DaleCarsonLaw Dr. Bethany Marshall –  Psychoanalyst (Beverly Hills); Instagram & TikTok: drbethanymarshall; Twitter:@DrBethanyLive Sheriff Eddie Virden- Osage County Sheryl McCollum – Cold Case Investigative Research Institute Founder & Host of New Podcast: “Zone 7;” Twitter: @149Zone7 Dr. Kendall Crowns – Chief Medical Examiner Tarrant County (Ft Worth), Lecturer: University of Texas Austin and Texas Christian University Medical School Nicole Partin – CrimeOnline.com Investigative Reporter; Twitter: @nicoleparti See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, welcome back. Nancy Grace here. Is Dennis Rader, known as BTK Bind, Torture, Kill, a serial killer now responsible for two more murders. I say H-E-L-L-Y-E-S. But we got to speak even more and in more depth with the sheriff, the sheriff who is credited with keeping this case alive and finding answers. Take a listen.

Sheriff, how do you go to sleep at night with this dancing through your brain? Well, let me tell you, my wife came in at 1.30 and said, you've got to get to sleep. You're going to kill yourself. But, you know, Nancy, I'm telling you, with your experience, if you've seen, I mean, we haven't even touched the tip of the iceberg in in what i've looked i've i've been eight months going through collecting following up on and and the the the information if you looked at it you you would be absolutely shocked, and you would know.

I had a meeting and put together a slide, and I had the OSBI from Oklahoma. I had KBI from Kansas. I had numerous sheriffs from Kansas. Uh, I had the us attorney's office here and I had the Oklahoma state attorney general's office here. We figured the presentation we put together would last about two hours. We felt like it was very compelling, uh, and would show everyone the need for us to form some type of a task force and really dedicate the time that needed to be done on this case. That meeting ended up going, the majority of everyone stayed for at least eight hours,

some up to 10 hours because of the significance of just the tip of the iceberg. And if you look at the things, I mean, we went through his map. James is an incredible person with more dedication than I can say. And again, I'm dealing with day-to-day, and I've kept James focused on this. And he's in there going through stuff. He's, he's made maps where, and you know, we, we have no idea how much other law enforcement has done because, you know, we've only been accessing what we can access when we can get it. And we made a map of missing people or unsolved cases just off of the map that Dennis provided.

And then as we did that, then we looked at what the victims were wearing, their description, and compared them. He has got a ton of drawings and notations and letters and poems and just unbelievable things. But going through that, we found not only cases that matched his map, but other items that particularly show the description of the victim down to colors of their shirts, matching, hair color, hairstyles. I mean, it's unbelievable. And, you know, this thing has really, really amazed me and disappointed me.

You know, I was hoping we'd find an ADT schedule and be able to rule him in and out, but we got one letter that says we don't have any records. Hmm. I mean, it goes on and on and on. But, you know, it's just, you know, like there's in Oklahoma, I was telling you that he talked about his census time. And in his timeline, it's the busiest time of his life,

which he told me in person, you know, he couldn't be himself at home because he had to be the church deacon and the dad and the husband and keep his role as that. But then when he was out on the road, he got to be BTK and have his hotel parties. He described breaking and entering, prow prowling window peeping all all all over the oklahoma canada what do you mean by hotel parties what hotel parties okay so some of the pictures that he made he would again dress up you know in in women's clothing w masks, and bondage, and take his own pictures inside those hotels. Like the one you showed where he was hanging in the tree?

Okay, we have located the spot. We've been with document that he made describing that day everything he took, what he did when he created that. And that's a special area of his. And that's an area that will be searched, you know, in the near future. One example, craziest thing I ever heard, I actually brought that up to him. And you know what his response was? What?

He actually said this. He said, well, if you find something there, that won't mean anything because every killer used that spot. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. And me and one of the guys that was with me after that conversation, you know, we were going back

and I mean, it's just unbelievable. It's like, you know, we're picturing the John Wick Assassin Hotel, you know. You would go to that spot and you'd trip over other killers you know where you were trying to get your time in there i mean it's just insane and uh you know at that location we haven't released it but in a silo we found a button to a blouse and the middle part had been

torn off so a shirt had been ripped open or torn which would cause that to break off and there is no reason that we can think of for it to be in that location why why a female would be inside of a silo and have something occurred in a grain silo that would cause her button to be ripped off of her shirt so you know we we've got so many things that that but you can imagine nobody in law enforcement wants to touch btk now you know when i go in to talk to a sheriff they they you know a lot of times run from backwards because they don't want anything to do with that because of the baggies that comes along with this type of investigation but but my victim needs justice and her family needs answers and and i met with her parents uh years ago and i i'd done other things on this case and i promised them

if i got anything i would follow it to the end of the earth to get those answers I don't want to work McDonald's kind of things I don't want to work other things I just want to find my girl but you know how these cases are it's it's again a domino effect if I can get anything that's going to cause a chain of events that will possibly reveal the location of my victim and get my case closed and my answers. You know, Sheriff, I'm just so, so inspired that you're, you call these people the same thing I called my people, my victims. And you know, I've never heard anybody else say that in my life beside me. When you say my victim, I mean, that tells me how much this means to you oh it does and and believe me I I won't stop I'll push as long and far as I can and you know I'm

quite certain at this point I probably made a lot of other law enforcement upset you know but but again I you've got to, and that's why, you know, we didn't release anything to me. First time I talked to him, he called a reporter out of New York, and they called me, and I tried to talk to him, you know, hey, you know, this is just routine. There might not be anything here, you know. I don't want to open wounds, but course you know the story ran and and and caught caught some some buzz off that but then died down and we of course had continued you know

we we had done uh uh two prior digs at two different locations one in kansas and we're lucky to to not catch any attention on those and you know because it makes it easier to move around a lot of people when they see the media buzz they don't want to talk to you because they're afraid you know they're going to walk out to get their mail there's going to be 15 different media outlets chasing around to ask some questions you know when when you run up and you know this because you've been there you know you you take a little old couple that's been through 40-some years of misery, not knowing where their baby is, details, wondering, you know, and they go to get their mail and somebody comes running up and says,

how do you feel? Nancy, you know how they feel. It's terrible. It's terrible. You know, you don't even, I mean, that's, of course, that's the world we live in today, you know, and that's why I try to push people, you know, to respect those families. And Carrie, Carrie is a phenomenal, phenomenal person. She is. And Carrie is a true victim, just as she's as much of a victim as, as the family members of the

murdered people and not just her, but her whole family. You know, I've been fortunate enough to, to, to, to visit with one other family member and I can tell you the pain and the hurt and the things they lived with. I mean, can you imagine, you know, you have nothing to do with it, no knowledge, didn't have anything, but anytime you go anywhere, you're not you, you're BTK's brother or you're BTK's daughter or you're BTK's son or you're BTK's wife. You know, if BTK's grand wife, you know, if if if btk's grandkids

You know are in school and people find out What what are those other kids do and then if they if they have friends and they say hey Can I go over and stay the night there? What what what is half the world parents going to say? You see what i'm saying? I mean, people need to realize that, that the suspects' families are more often than not... Have been through hell.

And the embarrassment and the shame attached to it. Much less, we know the guy's a serial killer. How do you think he treated them growing up? I mean, Kerry told me how awful he was to live with can you even imagine oh absolutely but but it's it's harder on on carrie and the family than it is on the victim's families because you know when the victim's family go somewhere, people have compassion because of what they went through. But when the suspect's family goes places, you know, it's a whole different deal. They're shunned,

they're talked about, they're whispered about, and they're carrying a harder burden people just really i don't know i think the victim's family might disagree with you because at least they're all alive so that's a toss-up who was you know everybody suffered everybody has suffered i i agree don't don't don't get me wrong. I'm not downplaying that. But I'm saying victims' families have got compassion where somebody like Carrie, you know, Carrie has told me she plans on advocating for victims as many years as Dennis T society, just trying to clear their name and, and do good where somebody did bad, you know, and you've got to admire somebody that's done that. I can tell you, she has been a tremendous asset to us. And if you go back and look at some of her early releases when when this information broke when Dennis put it

out you know I mean she she was like I don't believe he did any of this and then you know through through time we ended up with her actually getting to see some of the information we got and you know she left here i believe in a better position personally but not only that she revealed a lot of really really good information because some of the notations when you're looking at them as a person not knowing everything it doesn't really make a whole lot of sense exactly but if you go over those items with her, she can bring them to life and fill in the gaps and make it make perfect sense. She's the only out with you.

So, you know, it's tremendous. And, you know, I would love to bring some experts in because, you know, the more recognition that they have, the more credibility they have, the more traction this is going to get that is going to get the investigation done that needs to be done you know I don't know if you're aware of this or not but Dennis talked for 30 hours basically and loggered up and then never never talked again so the items collected in these search warrants he was never interviewed item to item and and I've had an opportunity to go through some of these items with him that he hadn't seen since his arrest. And you can imagine how that was. But trying to get questions, you know, I mean, it's, you know, there's things he

can't explain off at all. You know, he's got kidnappings marked, not murders, but kidnapping marked in a certain time period. And I have found letters from people claiming to be victims that match his timeline. And we're in the process of running them down. Thank you so much, Sheriff. All eyes on this investigation. Goodbye. This is an I Heart podcast.