Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Hear Bo Dukes' confession in Tara Grinstead trial! Dogs go wild! Pets that kill & save lives

Episode Date: March 20, 2019

What happened to Tara Grinstead was a mystery for over a decade, but not jurors in the trial of Bo Dukes hear his confession to charges of helping Ryan Duke burn the Georgia beauty queen and high school teacher's corpse after she was strangled to death. This episode opens with a special report from the trial. Also, dogs can be your best friend, but sometimes these pets kill. Nancy Grace explores recent animal attacks with experts including animal trainer and zoologist Dr. Grey Stafford -- host of Zoo Logic podcast, the director of legal affairs at Animal Protection League of New Jersey Doris Lin, Atlanta lawyer and animal activist Penny Douglas-Furr, and Crime Stories reporter Robyn Walensky. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Online with Nancy Grace, but first this special CrimeOnline.com news update. I'm Alan Duke. Thirteen years after the disappearance of Georgia beauty queen and high school teacher Tara Grinstead, we're hearing the confession of a former student who tells how he helped his friend burn her murdered body. Prosecutors played Bo Duke's confession for jurors at his trial on charges of hiding Grinstead's death. Dukes confessed to the GBI in an interview after his girlfriend's mom told a prosecutor what he told her about helping Ryan Dukes burn Grinstead's corpse in a pecan orchard.

Here's a critical part of Duke's confession in which he described seeing bruises on Grinstead's corpse in a pecan orchard. Here's a critical part of Duke's confession in which he described seeing bruises on Grinstead's neck. Bo said Ryan told him he strangled her in her bed. He takes you to this orchard and is the body covered up with anything? Is it clothed? No, it was not clothed at all and it wasn't covered up with anything. We were just laying face up and some knee out of your ass. Okay but you could like just see it unless you, I mean if you were walking by you'd see it but like just like if you were parked over here you probably couldn't be able to see it right? No. I mean but if you were, it wouldn't be too far away you could see it. Okay. I mean maybe two rows over.

And you said it was laying face up? Yep. Did you know who it was by looking at her, the bottle? Yeah, yes. I mean, he had already told me who it was. I guess I was already expecting that. And you had her for a class, still resembling her? Yeah, I mean, it was discolored. And you had her for class, still resembling her? Yeah, I mean, it was discolored.

I mean, I guess, wanted to pull a little bit of finance on her. Was there any other marks or scars or anything, gunshots, knife wounds? No, it was on her neck. Can you describe the marks on her neck? Moms like bruising, I guess. Not extremely noticeable, but there. Were there like lines or anything like really distinct? okay so by this time you're probably freaking out so you immediately see this and you're like what in the hell did you do yeah and why the fuck would you

do it here on my family's beginning of their day I said what did he say help me I asked him exactly what had happened. He told me, later that night, after everybody had gone and tried to come to sleep,

he drove the fish trailer, drove to the house, and he said it was late, very late, that night. And he used a cut-out get in through the front door. He jumped on her while she was in with it and strangled her right there in her bed. And then he had moved her body with a truck. I don't know if it was front seat or back seat. Or a wheel truck.

Yes. He was using my truck. He didn't have a big, I don't know, front seat or back seat. You were driving? Yes. He was using my truck. He had a big, little truck. And then he turned back to fish over the stopping at that dumpster behind the old truck. OK. And then to the orchard. He had only been there a few times.

I'm surprised he didn't go out in place. Okay. So he shot over Kenner on the bed and then loaded the body up in your truck? Did he say anybody else helped him? No. He stopped at a dumpster behind the laundromat and fish room? Yeah, around 129. To her keys and purse? Sure. Anything else? Were there clothes?

I can't remember what he said about the clothes. Whether he left them at her house or... Well, I can't remember exactly. And he never told you why he needed it? I mean... No. He never said why or? He never said why or? Even to this day, he's never disclosed why? No. So he stops at the lodge on that before he goes to the orchard. Keys, purse, maybe clothes, I'm not sure. Then drives to the orchard. He said he's been there a couple times.

The GBI agent asked Bo what he and Ryan talked about during the hours they watched Tara's body burn in the pecan orchard. I can't remember a lot about it. I remember asking him, you know, several times. Why? You know, never. You can never tell me. And I just don't remember a lot of our conversations. It seems kind of random. It seems to me like you probably had something going on with her that y'all didn't know about. I, I, who did I know about it?

You never heard it around afterward that there was anything? I never heard of them having any kind of relationship before. Okay. So to this day you still don't know why he did it? No. I asked him if he was there to rape her or kidnap her, and he said they did not. Bo Dukes is not charged with Grinstead's murder. The murder trial of Ryan Duke is set to start in Osceola, Georgia, April 1st. Visit Nancy Grace's Crime and Justice website, crimeonline.com, for updates on the Tara Grinstead trials.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I just can't believe it. At 88 years old, Jill Peterson could do very little to defend herself from those six German shepherds. It's like a nightmare to me 9-1-1 dispatched rowan county animal control literally a three-month-old male running dog bit her grandson jacari died shortly after the attack we're told the girl is five years old she was petting the dog when it bit her on the face all of her hair is out the casket can't be opened. It's just like a nightmare. It's hard to believe. Oh, my goodness. Oh, my goodness. An 88-year-old grandma, Bessie Jill Peterson, mauled dead by a neighbor's six German shepherds in her Tennessee backyard.

Quote, they tore all of her hair out. The casket cannot be opened. i'm nancy grace this is crime stories thank you for being with us joining me director legal affairs at animal protection league new jersey doris lynn with me renowned animal trainer zoologist host of zoo logic podcast dr gray stafford atlanta lawyer animal activist, Petey Douglas Furr, who I'm sure is siding with the wild pack of dogs, and Robin Walensky, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter and author of Beautiful Life,

the CSI behind the Casey Anthony trial on Amazon. Robin, please, this is the age of my mother who lives with me. I cannot imagine six German shepherds attacking my mom. Nancy, I can't either. And I have met your mother on multiple occasions. And you have met my mother, who's also in her 80s. And the thought of my mother, your mother, or anybody's mother being attacked by German shepherds, not just one German shepherd, but a pack of six German shepherds. You talk about a person being helpless. I don't care how tall or heavy set or thin or

petite the woman would be in her 80s. The shock of it alone. Wow. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. I'm looking at a shot, a photo of Bessie Jill Patterson. She looks pretty perky. She looks actually really cute. She's got a little jean jacket and a pair of shorts. She's really, she actually doesn't look a day over 60 in this photo. But no matter how physically fit you are, you know, I don't know if you remember this case, Penny Douglas Furr, lawyer and animal activist, when we covered literally the all-American athlete.

I think she was a soccer lacrosse star. I remember. By this time, she was a coach, and she was attacked by two Presa Canarios. And they just so happened to be the pets of some right-wing nut, but lawyers that lived in the same building or complex, and they attacked the female coach as she was coming home, I think from the grocery store, and they just ripped her to death. And that was one of the first dog maulings I had ever covered. And I could not believe it. Penny Douglas Furr, six German shepherds attack an 88 year old grandma

what's your defense well this is the fault of the owner this is totally the owner's fault those dogs are running in a pack and when you have dogs running in a pack they do things that maybe one of the single dogs by itself would not do well Well, that sounds like people to me. And I have said this over and over to everybody that I know who has a big dog, a Shepherd, a Rottweiler, any of those. If you want this type of dog, you've got to take caution and do not let your dogs get loose. You've got to be very protective and not let them get out. The owner who let them get out.

Jackie Howard, hold on. You know what? I think you have a bias, Penny Douglas-Fur. Jackie Howard in the studio with me. Can you look at this picture? That's Edward Fur, allegedly the husband of Penny Douglas-Fur. Do you see the dog sitting beside him? The dog is actually bigger than him.

Big dog. I mean, I wouldn't believe it if I wasn't looking at it. What is that beast sitting by your husband? I recognize your living room. From what I can tell, what's not covered with fur. It's a sofa, and then there's a lot of fur. What kind of dog is that? A Presa Canaria.

Ooh. Okay. Mm-hmm. He's a Presa Canaria. A hundred and how many pounds? A difference in... How big is... 170.

Well, he is bigger than Edward. No wonder he looks bigger than Edward. Robin Walensky, what happened to this lady? What happened to Jill Peterson? She was simply, Nancy, in her backyard in Tennessee, minding her own business. And her sister, Nina Brown, says that these dogs should never have been loose and that there was a history. There was a number of times where police had been called over

because these animals together, all six of them, were exhibiting aggressive behavior. I mean, imagine there she is in her backyard, doing her little planting with her flowers, whatever, and then all of a sudden you're 80 80 years old, 80 something, 88. And these dogs out of nowhere come barking, tearing at her and tearing all her hair out to the point where the casket can't be opened. That's outrageous. Well, you know, I want to follow up on something that Penny said, or maybe it was you, Robin, to Doris Lynn, Director of Legal Affairs at Animal Protection League New Jersey.

Doris, apparently the dogs should never have been loose because the police have been called multiple times about these animals' aggressive behavior. Yeah, a dog owner has to be responsible. You can't let your dogs run loose, no matter what their temperament. And if you know they have, you know, a tendency to jump and bark and growl and be aggressive, you have to take extra caution. And I totally agree with Penny that, you know, it's the owner's fault. Well, to Dr. Grace Stafford, I want to follow up on what Robin was saying about how you're the animal trainer, you're the zoologist, the host of Zoologic podcast. Why do you say that animals will do things when they're together they wouldn't normally do if they were on their own?

Because I've argued that to a million juries. When there's gang activity or a group of people, typically guys together, they do things they would never have done just on their own. It's kind of a pack mentality. Yeah, you know, I tend to try to shy away from stereotypes about pack behavior, especially when it comes to dogs, because there's a lot of misinformation out there. But I agree with Penny and the other guests that animals will respond differently if they're in a group setting, especially if it's a new surroundings, new situation that they've not been prepared for

in the past. The old rules don't apply. The expectation that their behavior will be calm and rational maybe changes if they're in a new situation. And here they're in a backyard that doesn't belong to them. And all sorts of things can go wrong when these animals are not prepared. They're not socialized. They're not desensitized. They're not taught to be calm as individuals, much less when they're together as a group. It was a Tuesday evening when Jill Peterson first noticed her gutters were overflowing from a week of heavy rain. 88 years old, a longtime waitress, does things on her own, goes out to the back of her home there on Evans Lane in Tennessee

to try to clear out a drainage ditch. She never saw the pack of six German shepherds coming at her. And for the next several minutes, she endured pure hell. There was no way she could stop their attack. They dragged her down the yard. They tore off all of her clothes, her shoes, everything. They tore all of her hair out. Her sister, Nina, tried to save jill then three of the dogs came after her and she ran to call 9-1-1 paramedics got there very quickly they got jill in an ambulance her wounds were so severe she had

to be airlifted by helicopter to vanderbilt Medical Center, and she died a very short time after getting to the hospital. Now, what makes it worse was rubbing salt in the wound is that there were prior incidents that were reported to police over years. The dogs belonged to a neighbor who lives behind Jill. Will the dog owner face homicide charges? What do you think, Penny Douglas-Furr? I think that's a good possibility because they knew these dogs, the owner knew these dogs were aggressive and so they should have done something to keep them in. See, I know that we in Georgia have a statute that if the dogs are aggressive, we can go to court and have the dogs classified.

And they can classify them as aggressive dogs. If they are classified as aggressive dogs, they have to be in a double fence and they have to take all kinds of precautions. And if there had been multiple complaints, I don't know why this didn't happen in this case. Well, there's the old one bite rule too. Doris Lynn, Director of Legal Affairs, Animal Protection League, New Jersey. In a lot of jurisdictions, you get one free bite. And then once you know your dog has bitten somebody, it's on you. Here, this owner had to know. Police were called several times about the dogs but yet they ended up killing this woman yeah that's what makes it all all the more horrifying is that the owner knew and and the

owner is to is definitely to blame and i i hope they do file criminal charges against the owner i'm sorry you could you can probably yes you know it's hard for me. Well, you know, he's walking around right here in the studio is Miss Cinnamon. Our pound cat comes in here all the time. You know, I just keep thinking about Jill. Take a listen to her sister, Nina. I just can't believe it.

It's just like a nightmare to me. So three of them came after me. After she started back in the house, that's where they got her, attacked her. They drug her down there in the yard and all of her clothes was off. They just tore them, her shoes and everything. All of her hair is out. The casket can't be opened. It's just like a nightmare. It's hard to believe. Took my sister's life. So no, I don't feel good about it. It's been with me the rest of my life. Been out here, called several times. Whatever she gets won't be enough.

I'm sorry, but that's the way I feel. She knew that dogs was dangerous, and she didn't do more, and she didn't do nothing about it. This cat is being credited with saving a Central Florida couple's lives. Paul and Leota Jones say they got home from eating dinner last Wednesday and forgot to push the start-stop button on their car. It sat in the garage all night emitting carbon monoxide, silently poisoning the home until around 1 a.m. when their cat Bella started crying and woke them up. If she hadn't cried and hadn't woke him up, we would not have known and we would have just let through it. And never woken up.

Never woken up. Leona says she barely had the energy to call 911 a week from inhaling the carbon monoxide. Firefighters gave the couple and Bella oxygen and took them to the hospital, and they will all make a full recovery. You are hearing our friend reporting from CBS 4 in Miami, reporter Curtis Silva. You know, I never thought I was a cat person. And Penny Douglas-Furr with me, Atlanta lawyer and animal activist. You were there.

When I first took in, I tried to push it off on you. Okay. But you said, Hey, I have Rottweilers. I cannot have a cat here. So I begrudgingly took in Coco. He was a solid black cat with beautiful green eyes. And I was living in Midtown Atlanta at the time, not far from the courthouse. I did not want an animal because I would work crazy hours. I'd be out in housing projects all over town, all hours of the day and night trying to find witnesses. I did not think, I didn't think I had time to take care of a pet. Well, actually the cat belonged to three hookers that lived down, you know, several houses down from me. Hence, I guess, the gin bottles and pantyhose I'd find in the alley every morning. But that's a whole other story.

So Coco was named Midnight by the Three Hookers. I did not like that. I thought it was stage dramatic. And I kept feeding the cat, feeding the cat. Finally, the poor little thing was wet. He looked starved. I didn't even know it was a girl or a boy. I took him in.

The first thing he did, Penny, as you'll recall, was crawl right up into the engine of my beat-up Honda, and I couldn't get him out to go to work. That's how it all started with me and Coco. It turned into a 19-year love, and I still dream about him. He stayed with me until I found joy in my life. I had the twins, and shortly after that, he went to heaven. Do you remember the time? My now husband, almost didn't happen. I was in New York. He had the cat. The cat got loose. He was an indoor, outdoor cat, but what happened was he was having, David was having his home remodeled,

and they came in with a wrecking ball. How many times, Penny, did I say, make sure you have Coco at the vet when they tear the house down or take him to the new place immediately? No, he didn't. The cat ran away. Penny, you were the one out. I nearly broke up. I almost didn't have the marriage or the twins over the cat. You were the one putting up the hit. Please help me find Coco posters and the reward. Here's the happy ending. We found Coco about four or five houses catty-cornered from David's home. And he had been taken in by an old widow lady named Miss Jane Baird. She had renamed him Mr. Kitty. Okay.

And when I found out where he was, I called her. She said, hold on, Nancy. I'm sauteing him some shrimp right now. Well, that cat was in hog heaven, okay? So I got back with David Lynch. We got married. We had the twins. We brought Coco home. It was a happy ending. Tell me about this cat, Robin Walensky, Bella. Well, I'm not a fan of cats because I think that they sneak up on you, but I am a huge fan of Bella the cat. I don't like anything that... Oh, I love that story.

I love the story you think they sneak up on you. Okay, go ahead. I do not expect them to sneak up on you, and I'm a little jittery to begin with. So I cannot deal with cats. When I grew up, I had Chumlee the basset hound. So Chumlee was one of those tricolor bassets, you know, real friendly, slobbers all over the place. That's what I can deal with. But anyway, needless to say, as a non-cat lover, I'm a huge cat fan of Bella because without this cat, these people would be dead and six feet under because the cat

cried and woke them up and they were being poisoned by carbon monoxide. And there have been many, many cases I can think of out on Long Island and the Hamptons at some fancy schmancy houses where people have died from carbon monoxide. You're asleep. You don't realize you're inhaling it. But up there's Bella crying. Wake up. And sure enough, the car is still running because it's one of those new cars that has

the push button and they just simply forgot to turn it off. Well, I had a friend pass away, Dr. Grace Stafford, animal trainer, zoologist, host of Zoologic podcast, that died of carbon monoxide. And this is how it happened. So I moved to New York to start a show with Johnny Cochran, God rest his soul. I knew absolutely nobody, nobody at all. I made friends with a couple people on my hall. My next-door neighbor was a guy, Richard and his wife, and they had a boat parked at the, I call it the LaGuardia

Marina. I don't know the real name for it. And he said, hey, come out to our boat. Well, you know, coming from rural middle Georgia on a dirt road, I hadn't been on a boat very often. So I'm like, great. So I go to the boat and I meet the dockmaster and a lot of other people there that day. Well, as it turns out, a couple of years later, the guy, the dockmaster was on his boat with his whole family and they were playing cards. They all fell asleep at the card table. They died of carbon monoxide being pumped into the boat. And it was a huge shock. So Dr. Gray, zoologist, Dr. Gray Stafford, how could the cat smell the carbon monoxide the people couldn't, and the cat knew enough to go wake up the people? Well, I think

we can all agree that cats are a mystery. i've worked with about a half dozen different species of felines and they're all amazing and they are they will well you're talking about big cats like the one you introduced my children to when i look at that back at that picture i'm like what was i thinking there's me and the twins and a giant what was it a mountain lion i think it was was it one of our lion cubs? That's not really the way I remember it. I remember it was a huge, gigantic, clawing, mauling beast. No, it was a cub. Okay, never mind. Well, your children were little then, so they had a pretty bigger next to them.

But, you know, cats are a mystery, but they have keen senses. And you're right. Carbon monoxide is odorless. It's colorless. But animals are really good at detecting differences in their environment in their situation now what what the difference was who knows maybe she just felt bad and started meowing but animals are really something though you say it's odorless but yet the cat could smell it well maybe it smelled it or or or maybe it just detected that it wasn't feeling well it wasn't

doing well something was different uh and and it let out that call. So animals are really keen about their environment, their surroundings, and changes to those things, subtle changes, are noticed by animals that we humans wouldn't otherwise notice. Well, this is what happened. I kept wondering how they let the car run for eight hours. This is what happened. Paul and Leona Jones, they're there in Deltona. They ran inside from a heavy rainstorm. They forgot to turn off their car after coming in the garage. They're not idiots. It's cars that have

those push button starts. And either they didn't push it or they didn't push it hard enough. They did not hear the engine running. And they either forgot to push the button or didn't do it hard enough. And they wake up at 1 a.m. after the car has been running for eight hours. And Paul wakes up to hear Bella crying under the bed. I'm looking at a picture of Bella right now. She looks like Grumpy Cat, but with kind of a smile. Then he collapsed on the bed. Then Leona wakes up. She was so weak, as Robin Walensky just told us, she could hardly call 911. So firefighters arrive. They give them oxygen. They rush into the hospital. Paul was in such bad shape, you know, they didn't think he was going to make it.

Long story short, the cat lived, and the couple has been giving the life-saving cat extra treats. You know, Doris Lynn, Director of Legal Affairs at Animal Protection League New Jersey, we often cover dog maulings, bear attacks, or people at fault. But on the other hand, our friends with fur are miraculous, Doris. Oh, absolutely. And I think animals help us far more than they hurt us. You know, most Americans, something like 95% of Americans, consider our cats and dogs to be members of the family, and they truly are.

And, you know, sometimes they save our lives, sometimes literally, sometimes figuratively. You know, you see a lot of people have these stickers that say who rescued whom. Hi, Nancy Grace here. Have you ever Googled yourself, your neighbors, somebody at work, a crush? 57% of Americans admit to keeping an eye on their own online reputation. 46% admit to using the internet

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We're told the girl is five years old. She was petting the dog when it bit her on the face. On December 18th, the Port of Portland says a dog bit a young girl while they waited to board a flight in Concourse C. The bite caused significant injuries to her face. The dog was taken to the Multnomah County Animal Shelter for a required 10-day quarantine. The animal shelter identified the dog as a 48-pound American pit bull mix. I think a lot of people don't understand that their dogs aren't well-trained, and they humanize them too much.

They bring them into environments that they shouldn't. Lisa Wooden is traveling with her dog, Rooster, a 3-year-old rescue. She's not bringing him on board. She feels it's too risky. He's never bitten anybody, but I think this is a stressful environment. So for him, it's probably best to go underneath the plane. The dog owner in this month's biting incident was cited because her dog was not in a crate. The Port of Portland says dogs that are not service animals must be crated inside the airport, but they admit enforcement is challenging.

Officers can only ask if the dog is a service animal. The traveler does not have to provide documentation, nor does the dog have to wear a vest. I'm surprised that you can go on a plane with a dog, not in a carrier. I think you should have to show something, you know, a card or whatever. Wait a minute. Did I hear right? A nearly 50-pound pit bull is a comfort dog? That would not be a comfort to me on a plane. I can tell you that much, much less with my children on there. It would be either me or that dog, Penny Douglas Fur, lawyer, animal activist.

I know you're just chomping at the bit on this one, but I do not want a pit bull next to my children on a plane. You know, the other day, I don't know if you guys know about this, but I read where somebody had a comfort alligator, a comfort, a service alligator. Yes. Robin Walensky, what do they mean? A 50 pound pit bull comfort dog? Well, it's bogus. How many times, Nancy, have you been in the airport? I've been in the airport and we see these dogs and you know damn well that it is not a comfort dog. I am all about people who are blind, who have their dog and they have the vest and they have the tags and they have the paperwork and the documents and these people seriously need a dog.

But I've seen little foo-foo dogs. I've seen these huge pit bulls. I flew to Vegas recently. There was a huge pit bull sitting in the bulkhead. My parents were on a plane recently. My dad got peed on by a dog in the bulkhead that was not caged, and the airline offered him $50, I guess, for the dry cleaning. But this is outrageous that this 50-pound pit bull is running around.

Now, one of the airlines, Delta, has banned this practice. And if you have a dog, you have to crate it, pay the fee, and the dog goes into the belly of the plane. This is nonsense. People are taking advantage of the rules. Well, she's absolutely right. You know, a trained service dog is not what we're talking about in this case. We're talking about people taking on their therapy dogs, whatever, their comfort dogs.

But there's no regulation on it. There's very little oversight, and it's gotten way out of hand. I appreciated your stories, but can we get back to the mauling? Because I am looking at, I'm all about dog TT. In fact, the other day, a fat boy ran in the house and went straight to my mother's ottoman and TT'd on it. Just straight to it, like it was calling him. Long story short, I'm looking at this little girl. Myrna Gonzalez has filed a lawsuit on behalf of her daughter, Gabriela, claiming dog owner Michelle Brannan should have known her animal had vicious propensities. This child, have you seen this picture, Jackie?

Is just covered in blood on her face. I don't know if that's going to need permanent scars or not. So what do we do? To Doris Lynn, Director of Legal Affairs at Animal Protection League, New Jersey. What is the mom supposed to do? What's the answer? Hold on. Take a listen to this.

Tonight, the parents of this five-year-old girl mauled by a pit bull at an airport gate suing Alaska Airlines, Portland's airport, and the dog's owner for allegedly letting a dangerous emotional support animal into the airport without a carrier. Gabriela Gonzalez's parents say the incident back in 2017 left their daughter severely injured. In court documents claiming it happened because the airport allowed a passenger into a secure area with a pit bull that was not a trained and registered service animal. We've seen incidents involving support animals turn into airport brawls. Other times people have claimed animals like this peacock were for emotional support. Several major carriers since refining their rules.

As a result, Delta even banning all pit bull type dogs. Alaska Airlines saying they are heartbroken by this incident. Portland's airport now requires emotional support animals be kept in their carriers. Well, you're hearing from our friends at ABC News. That's reporter Kanya Whitworth. Earlier you heard from KATU reporter Chris Lytle. I'm looking at a picture right now, Penny Douglas-Furr

of an emotional support alligator. I wanted to make sure I recalled that correctly. Yes, his name is Wally. He has a lot of teeth. I'm looking at a 2019 photo of the emotional support alligator. And he is walking into spirit trust lutheran village

in york pennsylvania i don't know why i thought it would have to be orlando florida but it's york pennsylvania um i understand that there are support chickens support squirrels support pigs and penny the reason i'm going to you is because you insist that there's a support peacock. I just sent you the picture of the support peacock. And this, the gentleman earlier is absolutely correct. There needs to be some kind of oversight with support animals because it's gotten to the point where people now are making money selling certificates to put your dog's name or your peacock's name or your alligator's name on a support animal certificate so you can show it at the airport or wherever they've got to get some kind of control

over this and then have people have to go to a doctor and have people have to go through some steps to train the animal. You can't just call and get a certificate. That's the problem. There's just no oversight. Doris Lynn, Director of Legal Affairs, Animal Protection League, New Jersey. Weigh in, Doris. Yes, I just heard in the news clip that one of the airlines is banning pit bull type animals. That is the wrong answer. Breed specific legislation is not... I don't know, Doris. I like it. I like it. I'm not crazy about the service squirrel, but I'd rather have a service squirrel next to me in the seat on the plane and my children than a service pit bull. We can't blame the breed. You know, like the pit bull organizations say, you know, punish the deed, not the breed. And if we look at temperament tests, you know, pit bulls are exceeded by many other breeds as far as aggression goes.

So definitely that is not the answer. Maybe there does need to be some kind of certification program, some kind of standards so that, you know, someone can't just walk on a plane and say, you know, oh, this is my comfort elephant, you know. I think there does need to be some better regulation. Well, I think we said it all when we said comfort alligator. Okay, Grace Stafford, go ahead. I think there's a way to meet in the middle here. And one is we need to make it easier for people to travel with their pets and animals, but we need to do it in a way that's safe for the general public. So whether it's traveling underneath the plane, in a carrier.

Wait, can I ask you a question? Is it just me or why do you have to travel with your pet with you in the plane around children? Why do you have to do that? I mean, am I missing something? Well, I agree. I think there's a way to do it that makes the animal secure. But why do we have to have a chicken on the plane? Well, if it's in the cargo... Go put it in a crate and it won't be a big deal.

Right. What? But you know what? If you look at... No, no, no. Penny, what did you just say? Because I grew up with my grandmother on a farm. We had to feed the chickens. Have you ever fed them? You walk out with a handful of seed. It's like the birds. Did you see that? That's real, but with chickens. Oh, I've been around chickens. I grew up in the country. Well, you also have six Rottweilers running through your house. So I take everything you say with a box of salt penny Douglas fir. Gray, was I with you or did I detour to penny? Go ahead, Gray. Well, I just think that relying on a certification or a new law is kind of

after the fact. I think everyone out there traveling or around any animal they don't know needs to assume that that animal poses a risk until their behavior demonstrates that it doesn't. And so we're far too trusting around animals that we don't know when we encounter them along the street or an airport or whatever. So we shouldn't assume that a certificate or a law is going to protect us. It's not. We have to use a little more common sense and be guarded until we know that the animal is safe to be around. Well, there's another issue, and that is, you know how your ears hurt sometimes when you go on a plane?

And animals, especially dogs dogs are super sensitive with their hearing and their smell how much do you think it hurts them and you're hurting a dog with the altitude change and what does it do snap and bite it just to me it's a no-win situation i i don't even understand how this has happened and I don't have a problem banning pit bulls from a plane. You know, it's like that movie Snakes on a Plane. Why are they there? Same thing about pit bulls. I mean, I'm sure you disagree, Penny.

I totally disagree with that. I don't think you should blame the breed because there's some very good pit bulls. Just because some are aggressive doesn't mean they're all aggressive, and I don't think you should ever blame a breed of animal. Okay, you tell that to Myrna Gonzalez and her little girl Gabriella. I'll just leave it at that. The child had already been airlifted to North Carolina Baptist Hospital when we received the call. Police say it happened at this Salisbury home on Tuesday afternoon. Jakari's babysitter left him in his car seat inside the home while she went outside to clean the back seat of her car.

That's when the babysitter's dog, a four-year-old boxer pit bull mix, attacked Jakari. At this point, we are currently still interviewing the family members of the residents and also we're interviewing some of the neighbors. 9-1-1 dispatched Rowan County Animal Control. Once they got there and realized how bad the situation was that's when they notified us and I said by that time the child had already been transferred to another facility. Jakari died shortly after the attack. As for the animal in question, this is the dog who police say killed Jakari. The Pitbull mix was past due for his rabies vaccination and has displayed aggressive behavior at the shelter. The investigation is ongoing. We're not sure exactly if this could have been avoided or not.

You're hearing from our friends at WCNC there in Charlotte, North Carolina. A six-month-old baby boy mauled dead by his babysitter's pit bull boxer mix penny what is with you going pit bulls are being singled out i'm more worried about jacari the little baby and you're worried about pit bulls what and what their human rights violations no but i can tell you uh cases where dachshunds attacked and killed a baby. It's not just pit bulls that kill a baby, but people don't like to hear those stories. And like when pit bulls save a child. I don't like to hear any story about a dog eating a baby. Okay, let's just put that out there.

I don't know how you can keep defending pit bulls. Pit bulls have saved children. I love that story. Pit bulls have saved children. Let me get the facts. Robin Walensky, what happened? Nancy, here's the thing. This six-month-old baby is innocent, sitting in the house.

The babysitter, she probably didn't mean it. It's the old story. You look away for just a second. She went outside, and all of a sudden she heard screams. Her mother was inside and, you know, you turn around for a second and your kid by accident touches the stove. And just as soon as that babysitter walked outside that home, the dog went wild on the baby. Well, why would you leave a baby with a pit bull? I mean, Robin, why did she leave the baby with a pit bull? My understanding of the situation was that she went outside to her car to get something that they were getting ready to leave, and she stepped away for a second, and that's all it takes. The infant, Ja'Kari Long, was attacked by his babysitter's dog, Salisbury, North Carolina.

She says she went outside to clean her car. Then her mother, screaming from the living room where she left the baby, walked in to find the boxer pit bull biting the six-month-old. The baby, Jakari, died. Jakari Lexington was in that living room there in Salisbury. It's 2.30 in the afternoon. This is just overwhelming to me that this could happen. To Dr. Grace Stafford, animal trainer, zoologist, host of Zoo Logic podcast, talk to me about dog attacks on infants. I don't understand it. Well, it's gut-wrenching, as you say, and there's a unifying theme in all these sad stories, whether someone's injured or, in this case, killed, and that is you've got animals that are either uncontrolled, unprepared, or at some point unsupervised. And it's a common theme that we see. And there is no, I stepped away for a moment, you cannot do that

when you're talking about children or the elderly in the presence of an animal. You just can't do it because animals don't always respond rationally as we hope they would in new situations. Straight to you, Doris Lynn, Director, Legal Affairs, Animal Protection League, New Jersey. What do you make of this? So, of course, this was horrible. This was tragic. And, you know, whether the animal had exhibited aggressive behavior before. We'll determine whether she's negligent or maybe criminally prosecuted. But I do have to object to these headlines that constantly say pit bull. The media knows that it will generate clicks, it will generate views, and that's why they put pit bull in these headlines. If, you know, a collie, a dachshund, a beagle bites a person, it never says collie, mulled baby, you know, beagle bites elderly woman.

They do it for pit bulls, they do it for German shepherds, rottweilers, because they know it will generate clicks, and this creates this narrative about certain breeds that is, you know, really unfair. So, Penny, it sounds like we're stirring you up again with unfair to pit bulls. I'm sorry. I disagree. You want to blame the media, that's fine. But every story I hear about, every case I've handled, is typically a pit bull, a pit bull mix, or a Rottweiler. Yes, occasionally a Presa Canaria, like yours, and occasionally a dachshund.

I guess you could call mine a dachshund. They told me at the pound he was purebred dachshund. Okay, he's purebred mutt. That is not a dachshund. But why is it always a pit bull we hear about, Penny Douglas first? Everybody lying, but you endorse Lynn? No, as a matter of fact, do you know that the pit bull is not the one that bites most often? I think that's a lab. If you look at the number of bites, it's not coming from a pit bull. Whoa, whoa, wait, wait. How about the number of deaths? Well, the deaths would also come from the people that are reporting it.

You're hearing it from the media. Oh, the mean media bullying up on the poor pit bull. Penny, I see the picture, the photo. I've got photographic evidence of your husband on a sofa with a dog that is physically bigger than him. I thought the picture had been doctored for Pete's sake. Robin Walensky, where does this case stand now? Well, the situation is that the parents of this little boy are absolutely distraught and the police continue to investigate the babysitter. But I want to tell you that the father actually said, Nancy, and this is a quote,

he said, I don't want to be here. I want my baby quote, he said, I don't want to be here. I want my baby back. You know, I don't want to be here. That kind of reverges on possible suicide. He is distraught. It is heartbreaking. And they do have a GoFundMe page, but it still is under investigation. I'm looking, according to Forbes and America's Most Dangerous Dog Breeds, And this is all the way from 2005 to 2017. Pitbull, 284 attack, fatal attacks on humans. 284 fatal attacks. Rottweiler, 45. German Shepherd, 20. Mixed breed, 17. Bulldog, 15. Mastiff, Bullmastiff, 14. Husky, 13. Lab, 9.

Boxer, 7. Doberman, 6. They don't even have dachshunds on here. So, pit bull by... Oh, well, I can send you cases where dachshunds kill the bait. Please do, because I doubt it's going to equal the 300 dead bodies caused by pit bulls. I will leave it at that. Penny Douglas, Doris Lynn, I'm sure you agree with me. Robin Wielinski, just the neutral arbiter of the facts.

And Dr. Grace Stafford from Zoologic. He's always on the side of the animal. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. signing off. Goodbye, friend.