Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - HEAR IT: Terrifying moment caught on doorbell video as woman tries to get into home to 'get the baby.'

Episode Date: September 7, 2020

It's 2 a.m. when Hannah Braun rings a neighbor's doorbell asking to come in. She manages to convince a 12-year-old to open the door and then tries to kidnap a 9-month-old baby, and it's all caught by the Ring doorbell camera.Joining Nancy Grace Today: Ken Belkin - NY Criminal Defense Attorney, www.belkinlaw.com Dr. Daniel Bober - Forensic Psychiatrist, Chief of Psychiatry Memorial Regional Healthcare Systems, Assistant Clinical Professor at Yale University School of Medicine (follow on Instagram at drdanielbober) David Katz Former Senior Special Agent with the DEA, Author of "Executive's Guide to Personal Security", CEO Global Security Group www.globalsecuritygroup.com  Amanda Hall - Reporter for WINK-TV, Ft Myers, Fla. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. At night, when you put your children to sleep, after you check the doors and turn on the alarm, you take another peek at them, and you've done everything you can to keep them safe for that one day and that one night. Not so fast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. Take a listen. We've had to enhance this audio, but listen carefully. It's me. It's me, Mama. Hannah.

It's this one. Where's the baby? Okay, I'm going to play that again in just a moment. But you're hearing our enhanced audio of a woman knock, knock, knocking at the door. And then you hear a child's voice saying, who is it? Who is it? You can barely hear that. And then you hear an adult female say, it's me. And the child says, who, who is it? And she says, it's me, Mama Hannah. And then very quietly, if you listen carefully, you can hear the door open and you hear the woman saying, where's the baby? With me, an all-star panel to Healthcare Systems, and clinical professor at Yale University. You can find him on Insta at Dr. Daniel Bober. Senior Special Agent, DEA, author of Executive's Guide to Personal Security, and CEO of Global

Security Group at globalsecuritygroup.com. And joining us from WINK, W-I-N-K-T-V, in Fort Myers, Florida, Amanda Hall. Before we kick it off, I want you, if you don't mind, Jackie, could you please play that sound one more time? Now that we know what we're listening to, it's easier to hear it. Hit it. It's me. It's me, Mama. Hannah. Where's the baby? Oh, when I hear that arms, where's the baby? You know what else it reminded me of?

Ken Belkin, have you ever had to deal with audio transcripts before a jury? Oh, yes, I definitely have. And that is a chilling thing to hear at 2 a.m. And, you know, when you're trying to, I wanted to play it and then explain it and then play it again. So everybody would be able to make out the words. There have been so many times, like if you're working with a wiretap or somebody taped a phone conversation or somebody is wired. It's always so distorted. And I remember sitting in my office in the conference room in the library at the DA's office, listening to the same audio over and over and over again to try to pick out specific words because you have to write up a

transcript for the jury so they can understand what they're hearing. And if you get words wrong, then the whole thing can be thrown out of evidence because you can't rely on it. So if you can't make it out, you have to put indistinguishable or inaudible, even though you think you might know what they're saying, because you can ruin your case at trial. If you try to enter in audio tapes like this, where you have mistranscribed the words, okay? So this is what we know. Knock, knock, knock, knock. A child's voice saying, who is it? A female response, it's me. Child says, who is it?

Female response, it's me, mama, Hannah. Then quiet. But if you listen closely, you can hear a door open and you hear the adult female say, where's the baby? Okay, Amanda Hall, reporter, WINK-TV, Fort Myers. Is this ring doorbell audio? It is. It's from a ring doorbell camera that's situated on the front stoop of a home. A lot of people have access to these cameras now.

Police have access to them cameras now. Police have access to them. And that's the most chilling part, Nancy. We not only hear all of this, we are seeing this woman outside through the lens of the camera. You know, I love ring doorbells. And I talk about that in my upcoming book, Don't Be a Victim, Fighting Back Against America's Crime Wave. And it's in the chapter about staying safe in your own home. And after I started researching, specifically after so many burglaries and so many home invasions and attacks in the home, I started researching very carefully about how to stop that. And we got, well, I gave it to my husband for his birthday. Whenever I want something for the house, I give it to David

for his birthday. So we got ring doorbells for the front and the back door. And I love them. Even if I am up on a plane, Amanda Hall, W-I-N-K, I get, if I'm hooked into internet, I can actually speak to the person at the front or back door through the ring doorbell. I can see everything happening. And I know when somebody comes, I can see delivery people. I can see the dog run by everything that moves. I can see it. So it comes with audio and video. So guys, take a listen now to our friends at CrimeOnline.com. It's a bizarre and terrifying moment in the late night hours in a Florida neighborhood. At 2.15 a.m., Amber, the resident, hears somebody knocking on her front door. Before she can make it to the door, the disturbance wakes up Amber's 12-year-old daughter. The person at the door sounds like a neighbor, so the 12-year-old lets her in the house.

As the neighbor barges in through the now-open doorway, she is heard to say, Where is the baby? At that point, Mother Amber is now in the room and faces off against this middle-of-the-night threat to her children as the intruder is trying to wrestle a nine-month-old baby from the arms of his preteen sister. Guys, can you imagine anything more chilling than someone knocking at your door and your child opens the door in the middle of the night and the next thing you know, they're trying to wrestle away your nine-month-old baby. I mean, to you, Dr. Daniel Bober, forensic psychiatrist,

there's a feeling of safety, right or wrong, in your own home. Why do we, is that instinctive? We feel like we're safe in our own home? Well, when you're in your comfort zone, it's your sanctuary. You feel like you're safe. But obviously it's a false sense of security because that could be breached or violated at any time. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are talking about the moment when a child goes to the door in the middle of the night.

And this is happening in the St. Pete, Florida area. Beautiful area, beautiful residential neighborhood, low crime rate, the St. Pete, Florida area, beautiful area, beautiful residential neighborhood, low crime rate, the works. And the little girl in the home goes to the door, thinks it's a neighbor, and opens the door in the middle of the night. And the intruder tries to take the baby, the nine-month-old baby. I want to circle back to our original Sound Cut 11. Take a listen from the ring doorbell. It's me. It's me, Mama. Hannah.

Hannah. And you can actually hear the baby cooing in the background. I mean, Ken Belkin, New York criminal defense attorney at BelkinLaw.com, B-E-L-K-I-N, Law.com. Ken, this is a whole nother evil. Knocking on the door in the middle of the night, a woman, you know, we expect predation from men. Sorry, no offense, but that's what the statistics show. It's just you guys, okay? It's not us, it's you. Yes, there are some female defendants, but overwhelmingly violent crimes are committed by men.

Can't you people just take a chill pill? What's wrong with you guys? Hey, I'm going to need a shrink for that. Let me go back to my criminal defense attorney, New York lawyer, Ken Belkin. But going to the door, did you hear that audio? And when you step over the threshold of that door, you have committed a whole host of felonies. Let's talk about burglary to start with. Yes, the child opened the door, but this is still

a burglary in my mind. Why? Look, anytime you enter a premises with the intent to commit a felony, that is a burglary, plain and simple. And it's clear that this woman, you know, there's very strong evidence. You've got the audio, you've got the video, you've got potential eyewitness testimony from people in the house that she entered that premises with the intention of taking that very young baby without any lawful purpose. She was attempting to commit kidnapping. To David Katz, former senior special agent, DEA author, executive's guide to personal security and the CEO of Global Security Group dot com. David Katz, have you ever seen anything like this? No, and I'll tell you, you know, the, and I know we think, oh my God, it's, you know,

such an evil criminal act. This woman has had a psychological break. You don't know that. She has come to the home to steal a baby. Hold on, David Katz. I'm getting it, but if you think of it. Wait, cut his mic very quickly. Now, it's my understanding, Jackie, that David Katz, yes, a special agent with a DEA, is not a shrink.

Does he have an MD and a degree in psychiatry that I don't know about? No, he doesn't. So, David Katz, I'm coming to you about security because you are the CEO of Global Security Group. OK, have I taught him a lesson? Probably not. I am properly admonished. OK, so if you want to talk about from a security point of view, that's why we have a ring camera so we can look before we open it. I get it. Well, that's that's my second point, because then I didn't get a chance to make my first one. But the second point is, well, we do security assessments. We put in systems, whether it's whether it's you know, we have a whole host of possible applications. They are completely ineffective unless you could tell the kids under no circumstances does the door get opened, period. Because the reason I mentioned what I did, had the child wait, let me wait for my mom.

She comes down. Now there's an interaction through the door. And that's when you can make an assessment something don't sound right. That's the whole idea. You don't allow children to approach the door at any time of the day, unless it's, you know, if it's grandma, okay. Someone's knocking on the door at two o'clock in the morning, they get downstairs and there's an interaction like, and she's,

there's clearly it's not, it's out of the ordinary. The kids need to be taught. Do not touch that door. I always tell the children, even when I'm home, we have on the alarm, do not open the door. And also in Don't Be a Victim, the book, it says, look out. If you don't have a peephole, get a peephole. If you don't have one, look through a window. Try to see who is there. But with the ring doorbell, you can look on your phone.

It pops up on your phone, which I think is just incredible, David Katz with Global Security Group. And you know what, David Katz, I'm actually glad you said what you said about, oh, she had a psychotic break. Why is it Belkin, Ken Belkin, New York criminal defense attorney, and you know it's true, you know it's true, that when a woman commits a violent crime like this, trying to go in a home and kidnapping the baby, we go, oh, she must have been mentally ill. Oh, no. What if she wanted to sell that baby on the black market?

Is that mentally ill or is that just pure evil? Whenever a woman does a violent crime, we go, oh, poor thing. She must have, what, had postpartum? No, that's so stereotypical. Davy Katz, I just slapped your wrist. Why do you automatically assume if the woman commits a crime, she must be crazy. Oh, right. I forgot. We're all hysterical. We must all be on our periods, Jackie. That's what it is. It was PMS. That's what it was. That she's crazy or that she wants to sell the kid at 2 o'clock on the morning.

Is this David Katt speaking or Ken Belkin? It is. It is what? He's going to go down with the ship, isn't he? He's going to stick to it. Ken Belkin, I bet you use that to your advantage. All us women are just crazy, hysterical.

We're on our periods. That's it. Or wait, maybe we want the menopause. I think there's some elements of that that's true. Nancy, you are really hammering my gender here. Because you, hey, you teed it up, buddy. Now, I'm just taking my shots. It is just so, you served it up on a silver platter. Let me bring a little

sanity back to this with Amanda Hall joining me at WINK-TV, Fort Myers, Florida. Amanda, tell me about this St. Pete neighborhood. I mean, it's not the type where, it's like an area where you don't expect a kidnapping to go down in the middle of the night, stealing a baby out of the arms of a 12-year-old girl. No, it's definitely not, Nancy. This is in St. Petersburg in Pinellas County. And as you mentioned, a low crime rate. We know from the mother that the neighbors knew, you know, knew some of their neighbors next door. They didn't know Hannah Braun, but they certainly do now. So that tells me so that the perp is a neighbor. So I guarantee you she had been scoping out this house.

Dr. Daniel Bober, I've been throwing around a lot of, let me say, emotional or mental ailments that's really your belly wick. But first, Dr. Daniel Boa, before I ask you to make sense of it, take a listen. Take a listen. Now, all the men on the panel except you claim that she must be hysterical or some have kind of a crazy going on in her head. Take a listen to our friend Sam Ricogliano at Inside Edition. The beginnings of what police are calling a bizarre kidnapping plot. It's me. The woman in the ring camera video is knocking on the front door of her neighbor's house. It is 2 a.m. The location, St. Petersburg,

Florida. Remarkably, she is let in after announcing her name as if this was a friendly neighborly visit. Once she got inside the house, cops say the woman attempted to snatch a nine month old boy out of the arms of his 12 year old sister. Fortunately, the child's mother had awakened and cops say she stopped the kidnapping. The suspect identified as 28 year old Hannah Braun is accused of leaving her two children at home while she allegedly tried to kidnap her neighbor's baby. She's charged with attempted kidnapping, burglary, and child abuse. And get this, a neighbor says Braun also tried to kidnap a year-old girl from his house on the same night.

Okay, guys, it's not just this nine-month-old baby at risk. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. We are talking about a young mom herself. She has children. She leaves it home to go kidnap an infant. Now, before all the guys on our panel start making excuses for her like she must have

had a psychotic break, how about plain old evil? Have you ever thought of that, guys? Take a listen to our friend Chip Osowski at WFLA 8 News. Ring doorbell video captured Hannah Braun knocking on the door at 2 15 on Tuesday morning before making it into the home. It's me. It's me, mama. Hannah. Once inside the house on 15th Avenue South, she tried to snatch the baby from the arms of another child. Amber is the children's mother. So we hop up, run out, and for sure she's standing in my living room talking about, yeah, I'm just here to get the baby. I just, I'm trying

to protect the baby and I'm like, protect the baby? What are you talking about? Like, why are you in my house? Moments before entering Amber's house, Thelma Reynolds claims she broke into her home. Reynolds says Braun tried to kidnap her baby grandson. She wanted the baby and she says she's taking care of babies here and that's what she wanted. She wanted this baby. And she says she's taking care of babies here. And that's what she wanted. She wanted this baby. Police rushed to the scene and arrested Braun. She's also facing child abuse and child neglect charges because the arrest report indicates she left her own two young children at home while attempting to kidnap the babies. Guys, we have been kicking this around, and I've been giving two of our actually very esteemed experts, David Katz at Global Security and Ken Belkin, who's won a lot of cases at trial, New York criminal defense attorney, a hard time about characterizing, mischaracterizing women felons.

But let's just follow this through to its logical conclusion. What would have happened if this young mom, well, she's pushing 30. She's not that young. She has two children under the age of five. She leaves at home to go steal a baby. Think about it. What would have happened if she got the baby? What would she do with the baby? Would she suffocate it later to hide evidence? Would she leave it in a dumpster? What would this woman do once she got the baby?

Was she going to sell the baby for money? We don't know. But just as we are kicking around her motives, of course, the state under the law never has to prove a motive. Although practically speaking, I know for a fact, GERARs want to hear a motive. Because very often you say this is the crime, this know for a fact, girards want to hear a motive. Because very often you say, this is the crime, this is the perp. They think, wow, that doesn't make any sense.

For instance, why would a beautiful aunt, she is pretty, 28-year-old mom of two try to kidnap a baby? So they may reject your premise that Hannah Braun did this thing. So practically speaking, you need to show them motive, although the law does not require it, of the state. To Dr. Daniel Bober, forensic psychiatrist, chief psychiatry at Memorial Regional Health Care, Dr. Bober, why is it, and I've worried about this in cases where I was trying a female, that we try to explain away what women do, even if it's a violent crime.

We try to go, oh, well, blah, blah, blah. You can put in postpartum. You could put in woman scorned. He asked for it. You know, she was overburdened with her children. You can plug in whatever you want to right there. Why do we try to make excuses for women felons? Gender stereotypes, Nancy. We're not comfortable with a violent, aggressive woman. Men in general engage in physical aggression. Women engage in relational aggression, but it doesn't mean that all women... What is that? Wait a minute. Wait a minute. You're throwing around a lot of psychiatric terms that we don't know about. Just for that brief

moment, Dr. Bober, you reminded me of those lawyers, and I love this, Ken Belkin, I hate to tip you off, that get on the elevator and start throwing around Latin phrases and legal terms that nobody knows knows what they're talking about, especially love it when they do it in front of a jury. But what do you mean relational crimes? What? Relational aggression. When women, for example, when women fight with other women, it tends to be on a more emotional level. And it tends to be longer lasting. And sometimes they'll hold a grudge,

whereas men will engage in more physical aggression. They'll fight, they'll shake hands, and it'll be over. Now, of course, that's a generalization. It doesn't mean that all women are not capable of vicious behavior. It's just a generalization. Okay, now, I accept what you're saying is correct, but I still don't have an answer. Why do we make excuses for women? Okay, since you're not answering, Bober, now it's your turn. You're on the hot seat. Since you're not answering, I'll give you the reason why I think it is.

Because just, okay, I always use Scott Peterson. Great example. A lot of people thought he was handsome. I did not, by the way, ever think he was handsome. But he would walk into the courtroom like a football player. I'm like, you know what? You need to stop that right now. But he would walk into the courtroom like a football player. I'm like, you know what? You need to stop that right now. But he didn't.

Anyway, some people thought he was handsome, college degree, great job. He roomed with Phil Mickelson. He was a golfer like Mickelson at college. He seemingly had it all. Beautiful home there on Covina Avenue in Modesto. Lovely wife, dog, the works, the families, the in-laws, just perfect, right? So it was hard for juries to look at him and think, wow, he murdered his wife and unborn baby Connor. Same thing with women. You look at a woman sitting there like Totmom, Casey Anthony,

you think, wow, why would somebody like her, cute, peppy, great personality, education, why would she do this? It's as if the mind is tricking the eye. And I think when you have a female defendant, Dr. Bober, you replace her subliminally with your mother or your sister or your daughter. It's hard to believe that they would commit such crime. I think that's true. I think they're more soft. They're more disarming. And we assume immediately because they're a woman that they're not capable of that level of violence but obviously that's not true guys take a listen to this pinellas county

woman has been arrested after deputies say that she left her own child at home to attempt to kidnap her neighbor's child according to an arrest affidavit braun opened the front door of her neighbor's home and attempted to take the child out of her neighbor's arms according to the st petersburg police department a struggle ensued and that parent was able to take their child and get away from Braun and call authorities. When police were able to get in contact with Braun's child, she told officers, she told deputies that she had lost her mommy and was scared. Braun is currently facing charges of attempted kidnapping, burglary with assault or battery, child abuse, and two counts of neglect of a child without great bodily harm and is in jail on a $145,000 bond. $145,000 bond is that is not that much.

Isn't it true, Ken Belkin, New York criminal defense attorney, you have to put down about 10% of the bond amount. That means somebody's kind of got to come up with $14,500. Yeah, typically they're going to have to come up with about 10, sometimes even 20%. And the bondsman is going to want to see proof of some form of collateral, whether it be a piece of real estate or, you know, proof of some sort of substantial income from employment. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, I want to thank you again for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111 in a case that seemingly doesn't make sense. To Amanda Hall, reporter at WIENK-TV Fort Myers, just take it from the top.

So this family in an upscale neighborhood, here's a door. I think it was around 2 a.m.? Yeah, it was 2 in the morning. So the middle of the night, Hannah Braun, 28 years old, leaves her own home. And what we hear on the Ring doorbell camera is not the first home that she went to. We know from another witness that she went to a house before the Ring doorbell camera home and asked for the children, said, I'm here to protect the babies, points at a young child and says, let me touch her face. He gets her to move on, get out of there

and be on her way. She goes to another house and that's when we see her on the doorbell camera, Nancy. You know, I'm looking at the video right now of her and it's a beautiful lawn with a stone walk up to the door. It crosses over a lined sidewalk, trees beyond that. It's just a beautiful neighborhood. But in the ring video, and you can see this at crimeonline.com, you see Hannah Braun clearly pictured knocking at the door. She even uses her own name. It's Hannah. Now, earlier that evening, she went to another home and asked to knock at the door, gets in and asked to touch her face, referring to the baby. You know, I'm going to have to break down and give a nod to David Katz and Ken Belkin. The fact that she actually uses her own name and anybody in their right mind, unless you've been living in a cave, knows about ring doorbell cameras. She obviously, David Katz with Global Security Group, was not concerned about being identified. Well, yeah, I mean, criminality, generally, you would assume some measure of

caution to not get apprehended. In this case, she identifies herself by name. It's a neighbor. It's not going to be like, well, not someone I've ever seen before. But more importantly, the whole sequence of events, going to the other home, asking for the child. You know, this reminds me, I'm not saying it is, but this reminds me of a case I did involving methamphetamine-induced delusion, where I had a guy who committed a horrific, a horrific murder because he was convinced that little foot tall people had kidnapped his girlfriend. And it just, I mean, it was bizarre. It was an absolute psychotic delusion. You know, I would, I would, if I was working this case, I would be asking for a psychological assessment of this individual

sooner rather than later. You know, it's easy for us to talk about it to Kim Belkin, get a psychological. He's right, of course. But we have to follow this through to what would have happened to the babies. And this was not the first baby. Have you ever come in contact? Hold on, Let me go to Dr. Daniel Bober. We've covered it many, many times when women will actually kill the mom, cut their stomach or something that happened to them in their own childhood. Sometimes it's just pure rage. It just depends on the reason. But I think most people would agree that someone that would do that probably has some mental instability. Some sort of mental instability.

But that doesn't necessarily rise to the level of insanity under the law, which is not knowing right from wrong at the time of the incident. Guys, this isn't the first time a kidnapping or other crime has been caught on a ring doorbell. Listen to our friend Jeff Ealing at ABC 13 News. Doorbell cameras caught the abduction of eight-year-old Salem Sabatka, her mother thrown to the ground, then seen running after the car and begging for help. Help me! Help me, please! I want to live, I'm in there! Fort Worth police got the video and used it to identify the car. They shared that information with neighbors, who then decided to help in the search.

A friend of ours texted me and I said, well, what are we doing about it? Jeff King is a local pastor. He knows Salem's parents. He and a friend then spoke with police. I talked to a detective. He was a plainclothes detective. He said to check parks. He said to check hotels. Within hours, King found the suspect's car in a nearby hotel. Police rushed in to save the girl, sharing the audio of the moment Salem was rescued. We got her. We got her. We got her. He's in custody. We have her. You know, just recently we all covered and helped investigate the case of Heidi Broussard. Is that name ringing a bell to anybody? Heidi Broussard had just given birth to a new baby and then her so-called best friend Megan Megan Fieramusca, traveled hours and hours to abduct

Heidi, get the baby, and kill Heidi, and put her in the trunk to get the baby, baby Margo. So it's a phenomenon I can't explain where even though you may, in that case, the perp had been telling her boyfriend she was pregnant. And then suddenly the time came and it was time for her to produce the baby. And so she did. Her best friend's baby. There's case after case after case of pregnant moms being killed, of babies being abducted to carry out a scam that the kidnapper was actually pregnant. Was that the case here? But back to ring doorbells, here's another example. Take a listen to Konya Whitworth, ABC News.

No! Tonight, the man in this video is behind bars. The terrifying attack captured on a neighbor's doorbell camera. Police say the woman was running from her estranged boyfriend. She's kicking and screaming as the man grabs her hair violently, drags her away and threatens to kill her. It happened in this neighborhood in Arcadia, California, just before midnight Sunday. Police got the video on Monday and moved in,

rescuing the woman and arresting 27-year-old Robert Michael Mendez, who police say was holding the woman against her will in his home. The video was turned over to police by the homeowner in this case, but the company Ring has video-sharing relationships with more than 400 police departments across the country, what they call the new Neighborhood Watch. And David Mendez was booked on charges including attempted murder, kidnapping, and false imprisonment. The woman was so badly hurt, she had to be taken to the hospital.

And that was our friends at KMOV. To David Katz, formerly with the DEA, now Global Security Group. What is that, that now all ring cameras are connected to the police? Well, it allows law enforcement to get access in virtual real time to evidence of a crime that may need rapid response. And look, you have a kidnap in this case, and immediately you get a look at the suspect. You might have a look at the guy's car. And then further, from there, you look at a neighbor's house.

Maybe a neighbor has a different camera angle. Now you've got a license plate. And then once you get a license plate, now you're figuring out, you know, where did the car go? Did the car go through a tunnel? Now, depending on where you are, a lot of police cars out of the locations have license plate readers. So that one step where ring cameras is interfaced with law enforcement, that is a huge, I can't even overstate how helpful that would be in situations like this. And in a case ongoing right now, let's take a listen to Cut 13, Gretchen Parsons. I think we all know about this ring camera video.

Just into our newsroom, we have video that shows 7-year-old J.J. Vallow just days before he disappeared. Footage from a neighbor's ring doorbell camera in Rexburg. The video shows J.J. playing and then running into his mother Lori Vallow's townhome. It's from September 17th and JJ was last seen September 23rd at Kennedy Elementary School in Rexburg. JJ's missing sister 17 year old Kylie Ryan she was last seen September 8th in Yellowstone. That's Gretchen Parsons at KTVB that ring video helped crack the case of cult mom Lori Vallow and her freaky new husband Chad Daybell

resulting in the discovery of the bodies of JJ and Tylee. That helped build a timeline. As far as this would-be kidnapper 28-year-old Hannah Braun, we wait as justice unfolds.

Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.