Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - HEIRESS-TURNED-EPSTEIN-PIMP GHISLAINE MAXWELL EYES PARDON

Episode Date: September 7, 2026

Ghislaine Maxwell's latest bid to overturn her sex trafficking conviction has been rejected, leaving her 20-year prison sentence in place. The judge called her claims a "complete miscarriage of justice" based on speculation and falsehoods.  Maxwell argued that newly released Justice Department files proved her innocence, but the judge ruled that those documents actually incriminated her further. Legal experts state she has virtually run out of standard legal avenues to challenge her 2002 conviction, leaving her future dependent on the potential for a presidential clemency. Maxwell was transferred from a facility in Tallahassee, Florida, to the minimum-security Federal Prison Camp Bryan in Bryan, Texas.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. The new Red Bull Dragonberry and Tropic Berry Energizers, now at McDonald's, made with freeze-dried fruit and an electric burst of flavor. The all-new Red Bull Energizers, now at McDonald's. This product may not be right for you. High in caffeine, details of McDonald's.cai at participating Canadian restaurants, excluding Quebec.

Crime stores with Nancy Grace. So many people have been dragged, and I mean innocent people, into Epstein's cesspool. There's not a witness list on a silver platter on top of a Christmas tree with a bow on it. That's not how it works. You have to comb through every document. Volumes of top secret information was set to be released. And what in that information points to, if it does, to wealthy, privileged, power. individuals from all around the world.

29 trafficking buddies. How come they're not in MDC? How come they're not behind bars tonight? You think I care? They're famous? I don't care. The fact that she is getting preferential treatment and refusing to name these 25 or more guys,

we've been told they've already gotten deals. What deal? We know that he was obsessed with cameras. He had them everywhere he lived on his yacht, you name it. So where's all that? Conspiracy theorists are saying the search for our friend Savannah Guthrie's mother, Nancy Guthrie, is some type of crazy plot to take our mind off Epstein. What is wrong with people?

Nobody's forgotten Epstein. But the bottom line is girls were traffic and there were co-defendants and our government is doing nothing. Joining us tonight, crime stories investigative reporter Dave Matt. Dave, what's the latest? Seven years after his death, Nancy, Jeffrey Epstein, still having lawsuits filed against associates. This time, celebrity hairstylist Frederick Fecki. Seven women allege that Fecki salons were used as a grooming operation for Jeffrey Epstein. In the suit, the women claim Epstein sent them to Fecki for beauty treatments designed to make them all look younger. As a matter of fact, using the term look like

dolls, grooming to look like dolls. The complaint alleges that some of the women had their hair dyed blonde. The grooming like dolls suit to suit Epstein's preferences is what it amounts to. The lawsuit filed in New York names Frederick Bekye, his company, as well as salon employee Patrick Coombs. The claims that Fekeye and his business enabled Epstein's abuse by providing salon services under his direction. The stylist's course strongly denying these allegations. Also, while this is happening, former Epstein associate billionaire investor Leon Black, he defies a subpoena to appear before the House Oversight Committee, instead filing a lawsuit challenging the demand for testimony and documents in the panel's probe of Epstein. With us,

This is Jeffrey Epstein's brother who insists his brother was murdered just before his testimony was to go down. Joining us now an all-star panel to make sense of what Mark Epstein and others are saying. First, straight out to renowned death investigator Joseph Scott Morgan. He is Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. He is a star of a hit podcast, Bodybags with Joseph Scott Morgan. But for our purposes tonight, he has investigated over 10,000 death scenes of all sorts. Be they, death at your own hands, accident, natural causes, unexplained, or homicide. Those are the five choices.

Joe Scott Morgan, explain to me. why you insist Jeffrey Epstein was murdered two areas to look at you have to look externally well let's talk about externally they're talking about ligature marks on his neck all right and when you see these marks

and I've seen every possible angle of these things out there you've got two overlying marks and they run one particularly runs parallel to the shoulders what do I mean by that. The mark is here. It goes straight back. If someone were to take their own life, it would

pitch up. That's called tinting feature. And there is another mark that runs slightly upward at an angle, but it is not sufficient to be defined as tinting feature, which you see with self-inflicted ligatures. Now, you go under the skin, okay? You go under the skin, and this is critical, Nancy. there are two separate fractures in the cartilage in the neck right here all right one's on this side one's on the other side and then then you have you know the little bone that we always talk about the only non-articulating bone in the whole human body the hyoid shaped like a horseshoe greater left horn is fractured that's way way way way way way up in the neck. You know when we see this, Nancy, we see it with manual strangulation. So you can go on and on. You can prattle on and on and say, well, yeah, this is consistent

with him having ended himself. However, you'll never convince me. You know who else you're not going to convince? My friend, Dr. Michael Bodden, and there are a lot of other people out there. You're never going to convince either. There were fractures of the left, the right, thyroid cartilage and the left hyoid bone. I have never seen three fractures like this in a suicidal hanging. Sometimes there's a fracture of the higher bone or a fracture of the thyroid cartilage. Going over, over a thousand jail hanging in the New York City state prisons over the past 40, 50 years,

no one had three fractures. So Scott, can you address the bruises on his body that his brother Mark Epstein discussed. Epstein, Mark Epstein, insists the bruises could not have been self-inflicted, and I agree. Yeah, how do you even explain that? I'm glad that Mark brought that up. You know, you've got these areas that have been impacted. And we talk about bruises, right, Nancy, fancy $10 word contusion. That means you have to have direct contact.

You have to have a direct blow to the. that area. We've all bumped into furniture. We've bumped into the side of a wall. We've fallen down. And listen, if what they're saying here, if what they're saying is this was actually, uh, generated as a result of being in this position, you can't explain that. And also it, it almost looks as though that it's very, there's a very focal area. It's not widespread and diffuse. It's kind of a concentrated area. So to me, that implies that implies that there was a direct impact. I don't know if it was generated by hand or I have no idea. But it just does not marry up with this story that they're trying to sell everybody on on this being a self-inflicted of death.

Straight out to special guests joining us tonight. Mark Epstein, this is Jeffrey Epstein's brother. He, along with many, are convinced Jeffrey Epstein was murdered from behind. And it's not just his blood brother saying that. Multiple medical examiners and medical professionals, death investigators agree. Mark Epstein, thank you for being with us tonight. It's my pleasure. Thank you for having me on.

What was your response when you heard claims that handwriting, handwriting experts insist your brother wrote the recent note? I'm surprised to hear that because I was given a report. where they compared that note to three other things that they know Jeffrey wrote, and they said it's not the same. But more important than that note, which I'll get back to, okay, is that, you know, I've been talking about the report that's being done about Jeffrey's murder. They were studying the autopsy like should have been studied years ago. And the report will be out soon.

It's currently being peer reviewed, but I've been read part of that report. Again, the report is not being done on my behalf. I'm not paying for this. It's independent pathologist. And they inclusively decided that Jeffrey could not have taken himself out. Because due to the injuries and bruises on his body, they could not have been self-inflicted. So they know for a fact that he was killed because he could not have done it himself. Now, if we go back to the note, this note is sort of after the July incident with a

thought they were saying there was an attempt by Jeffrey to take himself out. We know that's not the case. We know that his cellmate roughed him up. And after that incident in July, Jeffrey reported that his cellmate roughed him up. And that's documented. You can find that in the reports, in the files. Later, soon thereafter, he recanted. And then he said he couldn't remember what happened. You know, what happened, he changed his story because he didn't want to be retaliated against. It's one thing to be in prison as a pedophile. It's also not a good thing to be in prison as a snitch. So he said he didn't remember what happened. That's why he was taken off of watch so quickly. Now that we know, we know that it was not an attempt to take himself out.

Therefore, there would be no reason for there to be a note of that. What about the fact, Mr. Bagot, guys, joining us is a preeminent handwriting expert Bart Baggett. You said, said fast, but this note did not appear for years. You mentioned it was hard for your students to pull off a fake note. But what if it was an expert like yourself that had months and months, maybe even years, to write the note? That's a whole different equation. You talk about counterfeit paintings, counterfeit money, counterfeit notes. If you have time and you have expertise and you have access to his writing, you could practice for years. I think the only cases that have been really, really hard in the 30 years is when a wife

forges the husband's name because they've been working together for 30 years. So she's got like years of practice. Those cases are a little harder. And I think what's interesting is not only is the handwriting so similar, such as the letter forms, the A, the quickness. They've obviously created such a fast thing. The words are the same. They've got phrases that come directly from email.

So you have to ask yourself that question, who had access to understand these phrasings and words and explanation marks? The only way to craft a note this good to get past my professional eyes is to have access to all those files and then submitted into evidence at the appropriate time. Are you insinuating this note was written five years later? And who would have had those files? Dave Mack, joining us, crime stories investigative reporter. Who would have had the file? Nancy, the files have been handled in particular here by Nick Tartogne Deoni and his defense team as they're trying to fight his conviction on the murder charges that he is sitting with. He's the guy who said he found the note in his little book after everything went down.

So all of this is found by the same guy. the only one who benefits by it being written by Epstein. Barbegaget, let me understand. After your review, you believe the notes are genuine, but you have a concern? Yes, so what I stated and what I think all forensic experts would say is these two notes found in the jail cell were written by the same person. However, even if that person was Jeffrey,

which the evidence points to it, that doesn't mean he unaligned himself. I think people are making the assumptions that if he wrote this note, then that narrative's true. I don't buy that. Why? Because the note itself is not typically what we would think of as a one of those notes. There's no depression. There's no sadness.

There's nothing about the typical notes that I've seen when someone does that. I don't think psychologically he was ready to go. The new Red Bull, Dragonberry, and Tropic Bear, Energizers, now at McDonald's, made with freeze-dried fruit and an electric burst of flavor. The all-new Red Bull Energizers, now at McDonald's. This product may not be right for you. High in caffeine, details of McDonald's.com. At participating Canadian restaurants excluding Quebec.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Barry Levine, I know you have written the book at the definitive book on Epstein's multi-multing million dollars schemes all over the world. And now we find out he's meeting with Putin, as in Vladimir Putin, and sets up a honey trap likely with all of these young girls to be used for gathering intelligence. It's just, it's mind-boggling. That's a whole other can of worms. But it's not confusing because we've got Leon Black, billionaire, but, as a brother, billionaire, pays 62 mil to U.S. Virgin Islands for claims on his financial dealings with Epstein, and after he pays off 62 mil, he walks free on alleged sex trafficking girls.

That's not confusing to me. I think I understand exactly what happened. This thing, you may think it's clear, but to the Justice Department, they say that they cannot corroborate enough to bring any charges against any other individuals besides Elaine Maxwell. Okay, hold on. I think I know somebody that's going to disagree. And that would be Lynn Shaw. She is the founder and director of Lynn's Warriors, a nonprofit. She's not making money off this. organization dedicated to ending abuse and trafficking of girls.

Do you understand what happened? Because I do. He paid $62 million and he walked free. No criminal charges were ever even considered. Absolutely. It is the same thing I continually say, which is money talks and crime walks. This is a very clear, simple case to see. However, there are so many complicit people from different governments

around the world, our own government, the Department of Justice. We just had the, you know, Epstein Files Transparency Act. Everybody was applauding in Washington. Where have we really gone with all of this? The only person we have in jail is Galeen. Maxwell, there are so many others, and these files are showing us what our victims for years came forward and told us about everything from orgies, underage girls. So all we need was proof. The proof is coming forward. Remains to be seen. But this is the tip of the iceberg. Shrouted in the Fifth Amendment, Will Gellane Maxwell finally cough up the names of 25 or more mystery men that could face charges. Again, joining us an all-star panel, including an Epstein survivor who is speaking out tonight. But first, to Sidney Sumner, joining us, Crime Stories Investigative Reporter, and she is joining us outside the federal prison camp in Bryan, Texas.

Sydney, explain to me the jailhouse scandal. Well, Nancy, almost a year ago, Galane Maxwell was transferred from a low security prison in Tallahassee to the prison camp directly behind me in Bryan, Texas. This is a low security prison camp, minimum security prison camp, where Galane has bottled water, an unlimited supply of toilet paper. There's access to programs like a puppy training program. There's other inmates who are allowed to learn vocations such as nursing and leave the property on a regular basis. And we're hearing things like she's getting extremely preferential treatment walking down the entire prison anytime she has visitors.

Joining us tonight is a special guest. It's Haley Robson, an Epstein survivor. She is part of an organization called the Survivors, Inc. supporting sex assault and trafficking survivors. Haley, I'm just curious what your reaction is to Galane Maxwell's, and there's more to it, her prison scandal over, let me just say, against all existing rules. She is a sex trafficker convicted. That's a violent crime. you of all people can speak to that violence. Why is she at Brian?

I have said this since the very beginning, and when I was at the Capitol Hill, I brought it to not only the Democratic Party, but I've said this in front of several individuals in Congress on both sides of the spectrum, and I've said, why are we not putting Elaine Maxwell back in prison? Todd Blanche keeps denying that he went down there and made a deal with her,

which doesn't make sense to me. considering this she should automatically be precluded from this type of environment when she has created a or committed a extremely violent act and not just an extremely violent act and act against children and young women it's absurd I'm not buying it Todd Blanche can go choke on a cactus with this whole entire administration the jig is up we know there was a deal to be made and if I am absolutely wrong then put her back in prison why you has that not been done yet? How come we don't know who made that deal? Who made that phone

call? And on top of that, this happened in Florida. So furthermore, I want to know on a state level who was involved in making that deal or who at least knew about it. Who knew she was being moved? This is absolutely absurd. So many people have been dragged, and I mean innocent people into Epstein's cesspool. I'm talking about Melinda Gates. How did she get dragged into this? Bill Clinton is one of the most frequently pictured with Epstein. One set shows Clinton lounging shirtless in a hot tub with Maxwell and a second woman whose identity is hidden.

Clinton also pictured arm in arm with Epstein wearing a festive shirt at a dinner and again beaming on Epstein's plane next to Michael Jackson and Diana Ross. In an email written to himself, Epstein makes shocking claims. Bill Gates contracted an STD sleeping with Russian girls and turned to the financier for help securing antibiotics to slip to Melinda to cover up his infidelity. The lengthy message lashes out at Gates for ending their friendship, reading, to add insult to injury, you then implore me to please delete the emails regarding your STD, your request that I provide you antibiotics, that you can surreptitia. You can surreptitia. graciously give to Melinda and the description of your penis. We walked into that clinic where they're giving that money out to these people that are

the most direst rates of poverty and sickness and told them that the money was coming from a, what are you, class three sexual predator? Tier one. Tier one is the highest and worst? No, I'm the lowest. You're the lowest. Tier one, you're the lowest, but a criminal. Yes.

That the money came from them. What percentage of people do you estimate would say, I don't care, I want the money for my children? I would say, everyone said, I want the money for my children. Josh Boswell joining us. He is Chief, investigative reporter, Daily Mail. Josh, is Lisa Phillips Epstein survivor telling the truth? Is there any reason to doubt her? I mean, we know that he was obsessed with cameras.

He had them everywhere he lived on his yacht, you name it. So where's all that? It is an excellent question. You know, we have heard from the DOJ that, you know, they've released everything according to them. But then Democrats are saying, no, there's another two and a half million files that should have been released that weren't. Maybe that data, those videos, that content is there. But in terms of whether we should believe, Lisa, I mean, what she is saying is it corroborates, you know, other things that we've heard from other victims. You look at the pattern of behavior by Epstein, all of these photos, he's clearly being very careful to document all of these famous and powerful people that he's bringing into his homes, that he's bringing onto his island, that he is getting involved with these young women, sometimes girls, you know, minors.

And if you look at that pattern of behavior, it is consistent with someone who is running a honeypot scheme. And that's exactly what was alleged by people in the intelligence community. You know, Daily Mail, we broke a story over the weekend that we're talking to intelligence experts, people in the intelligence community who believe that Epstein was running this as a human trafficking ring to ensnare rich and powerful people, possibly for blackmail purposes. And there are a lot of women between him and Putin. We have to ask these questions. Is there that compromise there?

Are there these videos that the DOJ has potentially? According to Lisa, that's what she's saying. And that they're not releasing. we need to know. As we've discussed several times before Mark Epstein, I have always thought from day one that Jeffrey Epstein was murdered behind bars. And the single most convincing fact for me

has nothing to do with politics. It has nothing to do with malfeasance or misconduct or bad guards, bad cameras. Nothing. It has to do with the facts. It has to do with, the markings on your brother's neck. I have handled, prosecuted, and investigated and covered.

More homicides than I can count. I can't even remember them all. When a person is strangled by ligature, ligature strangulation, you will see a straight across marking on the neck, typically furrowed, where the ligature, be it a rope, a stocking, furrows into the skin. When an individual takes their own life, you will see a smiley mark from ear down toward the Adam's apple and to the other ear because of the positioning of the rope, if it is a rope.

So the marking on your brother's neck, the first time I saw it from having handled so many homicides, I did not believe it could be anything other than homicide. Yes, well, you're correct about the mark on his neck, but there's other injuries to his body and other bruises that cannot have been self-inflicted. And this was either overlooked or ignored by Dr. Samson, who was the chief medical examiner, who said that Jeffrey took himself out. And let me be really clear, she never saw Jeffrey's body. She wasn't in the office that day. The two pathologists that did the autopsy both came out saying this looks like a homicide. They wouldn't call it. And the report coming out goes much deeper into the marks and bruises on Jeffrey's body.

You know, the other reason people are calling this, saying that he took himself out. You know, Barbara Samson made that statement within, you know, days after Jeffrey. died and Bill Barr, the Attorney General, came out and publicly stated that he personally watched the videotape from the camera that was outside of the tier and he saw that nobody went in or out of the tier and that convinced him it was a statement. Those are the two reasons people think this was a Barbara Samson statement and Bill Barr's statement. Now if you look at Bill Barr's statement, First of all, with the recent release of the videotape, you could see that number one, you cannot see the door to the tear that he was referring to. And it's been shown many times that people could get to that door and leave from that door without being caught by that camera.

So just what the fuck was he talking about? We also have now seen in the middle of the night that orange person going up the stairs. You know, because you can only see the left side of the staircase. So obviously somebody went up the stairs. So again, what the f was Bill Barr talking about when he said nobody went in around? Somebody went up there. Also, Bill Barr completely ignored the possibility that somebody already on the tier, another cell could have gotten to Jeffrey, done something, going back into his cell,

without having to go and come from the tear. A few months after the death, I was told by a source that cell doors were left unlocked that night. I don't know how many. I don't know whose. But supposedly this information came from a lawyer of one of the other inmates on the tier. So it makes perfect sense when you put it all together that somebody already on the tier could have done this. Also, to think that somebody could get to that cell door, the tier door, go in the tier,

commit a crime, and leave completely undetected. It's kind of asinine. So Bill Barr's entire conclusion is based on bullshit. And it wouldn't hold up in a court of law, and it wouldn't hold up in a kindergarten class. So you believe, Mark, that this so-called handwritten note, now unsealed by a federal judge, is really a fake, intended to corroborate the official ruling your brother took his life while waiting for a trial. You believe the note is a fake? Yes, I believe that the government knows, just like you now know, that the government,

this report is coming out that will prove that Jeffrey did not take his own life. They'll prove it conclusively that Jeffrey cannot have taken his own life, as they say. So I believe this is their attempt now to sow doubt about this report, because this is going to be very damning when this report comes out. So now they're trying to put doubt in people's minds. It's like a propaganda thing. Yeah, I don't believe the note is real because, again, Since there was no prior attempt in July on Jeffrey's part to take his own life, why would he have written such a note?

It doesn't make sense to me or to anybody else who looks at it that way. Mark, you have not sat back and digested what was being spoon fed to you by the feds or the media. I'd like to hear your analysis before I began peppering you with questions as to whether your brother, Jeffrey Epstein, committed suicide. Well, that doesn't seem to be a question anymore. It was not a suicide. If you go back in time when Jeffrey was first autopsy the day after they found his body, the initial death certificate said under cause of death pending further study, It wouldn't call it a suicide or a homicide at that point in time. But both of the pathologists that were there at the autopsy, Dr. Kristen Roman, who was the city pathologist, whose autopsy it was,

and Michael Barden, who was there on my behalf, they came out of the autopsy saying that they couldn't call it a suicide because it looked too much like a homicide. That's what they said, I was there. They were talking to me. That doesn't appear in the government report. It said pending further study. When I've spoken to a number of pathologists, they've always told me that if a death certificate says pending further study, you don't get an answer usually for weeks or so because something's being investigated, some studying is being done.

That wasn't done here. They never investigated Jeffrey's death as anything other than suicide, as they call it, because, you know, the attorney, Bill Barr, the Attorney General, at the time, came out and said that he personally watched the videotape from outside of the tier, because we know the camera in the tier was not working or was not recording. The new Red Bull Dragonberry energyizers now at McDonald's made with freeze-dried fruit and an electric burst of flavor. The all-new Red Bull Energizers now at McDonald's. This product may not be right for you. High in caffeine, details of McDonald's.ca.

At participating Canadian restaurants, excluding Quebec. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Straight out to Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author, Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon and Star of a Hit podcast series, Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan, a search at Zorro Ranch for at least two girls' kids. bodies. Now, first of all, hold Joe Scott. Dave Matt, crime stories investigative reporter. I just need two words out of you. Where is Zorro Ranch? South of Santa Fe, New Mexico,

30 miles. See, I said two words and then you just blew that. You blew that up. New Mexico. New Mexico, Joe Scott Morgan. New Mexico here in the U.S. Let me see Joe Scott, please. Joe Scott, we're not talking about wrongdoing in the U.S. Virgin Islands or in London or in France or in the stands. We hear a lot about from Lynn Shaw where girls are imported to Lolita Island for Jeffrey Epstein and all of his clients. But there is no client list. Forget about that. That's BS. This is here on U.S. soil. Tell me what you know. Oh, what I know is that they've had an email that had come in in one of these dumps, in one of these tranches of data that has been released.

And, of course, a lot of it's redacted. But what was stated is that there are at least two victims, according to the source, that have gone out, and they have stated that they used to work there at the Zorro Ranch. They claimed that during some kind of wild perverted sex act, that two, not one, but two individuals, young women, were choked to death, that they were essentially asphyxated. And then their remains were taking out onto this property, which Nancy, to say it's vast as an understatement, taken out, and they were buried in the hills surrounding this area. It's very nonspecific.

But right now, according to what we're hearing, there's a search going on of this property looking for these remains. I have to think about it's looking for a needle in a stack of needles right now. To Lynn Shaw joining us, founder, director of Lynn's warriors. Lynn, the way the girls were lured there, it's classic, it's textbook. They were flown there on private planes. They went swimming, horseback riding, posing for pictures, shopping sprees, and then came the rape. Yeah.

It's called the grooming process, Nancy, where one gains the trust of a vulnerable person. And certainly for a young girl, you know, a teen, a young woman being around power and wealth, celebrities or government officials, it's so exciting. I do have to ask though, and I'm always asking, you know, where were the parents? All of this was going on. But the grooming process is simply gaining the trust, you know, giving expensive presence, treating them like they've never been treated in their life, making them feel so extra special that these young, impressionable girls and women would do anything, right, to be part of this.

So the next step is, okay, we're going to fly off to the ranch. We're going to have a great time. We're going to go horseback riding. We're going to have a chef. We're going to have massages. And we're going to have, you know, manny petties and all kinds of stuff and shopping. Okay, that happens for a little while. And then they go in typical, you know, predator for the kill.

and the girls are trapped. The young women are trapped. Again, as I was told, repeatedly, there was nowhere to run, nowhere to hide. They couldn't get away. I in my mind have nightmares about girls actually, one actually told me. She tried running and running and running, and they caught up to her and grabbed her and brought her back to the house. This is what she reported to me. So after all of this, there was nowhere for them to go. And remember, there was also an airstrip on this property. And a source of mine just told me to look at this property. and to properly, you know, do digs and things like that would actually be eight and a half to nine years

to properly look over all these thousands of acres. So this is a sexual predator, Galane Maxwell, all of their complicit people with them. And I have to end with in asking you, why do we have to keep begging for files to be released, names to be released? These victims have told us names over the years. Let's go and find them.

Let's, you know, charge them with something. Let's ask them to show us. Let's question people. I do not understand the hold-up. But you know what? I fear we will never get to the bottom of this crime ever. Speaking of the victims at Zorro Ranch that many people are just now hearing about, and this is happening under our own noses on U.S. soil.

Listen. And I suddenly realized I had to like just be nice and be friendly because I realized that that was in great danger. And he's assaulting you and the other women are there. And they're laughing. Yeah, they saw and they just laughed. I was really, really petrified. And, you know, it just really changed me the whole thing, you know, going through this. And I just didn't know what to do.

And I just really thought that I was going to die. That is Juliet Bryant, an Epstein victim speaking to our friends as Sky News. Dr. Bethany Marshall, it's classic. It's textbook luring money. was nothing to abstain in Galane Maxwell, nothing. She stood by and watched this happen. She lured the girls there. She took part in the assaults.

And now she's sitting in Club Fed, running the jail. But this is classic. You know, Nancy, it is classic. And to add to what Lynn Shaw said, which was so profound and riveting just to listen to her, you know, pedophiles also, they lure other peasanties. pedophiles too. So there was a whole group of people on this ranch who were in on it. It's like it was operating like a cult in a sense where all the benefits flow to the leader. But I think another thing that Jeffrey Epstein did to lure these girls is that he propped himself up as this kind of

guru and he started giving them advice about their future. That's a little bit like P-Ditty, right? You know, I'll make you a star. I'm going to give you a singing contract. This This guy Epstein was so good at getting money from other people and he lorded over these girls and made them feel like they would be rich and famous too. And by the time he began molesting them, Nancy, a part of the grooming process is that for the victim, confusion sets in. These girls would have told themselves, well, I went here voluntarily. I enjoyed the manny petties and the movies and the cash.

And I did tell him that I wanted him to be a part of my future. Maybe I caused this to happen. That is the confusion of the victim until the terror sets in and they try to get away. And then they are in this isolated place. You know, Nancy, it's like the, the FLDS cult. Remember when the women tried to get away, other cult members actually went after them, attacked them, brought them back, tortured them, brutalized them. So there's going to be an intimidation process on this ranch.

that when the girls try to get away, they're brought back and probably beaten and tortured even more. They can't see. There was no getting out of it at that point. The noose was around their neck, metaphorically and literally. Geline Maxwell, how is it that she can clam up and sit at Club Fed running the place, having every perk possible, and nothing's happening while we are looking for bodies at Zorro Ranch? to Dave Mack joining us, what can you tell me about Gilae Maxwell, who's nothing more than a pimp? Nancy, Gailene Maxwell is in prison in Texas and apparently works out every day but doesn't bathe. The other inmates say she is so nasty inside and out that, you know, prison smells bad as it is and she's the worst.

She doesn't wait in line in the chow line. She just buffaloes her way straight through. And you know what, Nancy? The inmates allow it to happen because, A, she's nasty. B, the woman has filed 800 complaints in one year against people and things in the prison. She is known throughout the prison to get things done by filing complaints and been very effective at it. One good example is she, Galane Maxwell actually taught an etiquette class in prison, then took 12 weeks, one day a week teaching law and how to file things for inmates.

Then she actually tried to take advantage of a religious ceremony where the kitchen staff was pouring the grape juice for this particular Jewish ceremony. and Elaine wanted to pour her own. And the inmate said, you're not coming in the kitchen. I know you don't bathe after you work out. You stink. You surely aren't washing your hands. You're not coming in here.

The inmate said within a day, Delane Maxwell was in the kitchen, doing her own thing. This is DOJ video we've just obtained of her in her cell. Okay, before I go out to our friend, Dr. Dwayne Hendricks, Dr. Bethany Marshall, explain the stink.

Why is it that we hear about, for instance, Hollywood stars and really, really rich people, they don't think they have to bathe? This is actually a peculiarity of sociopathy. And I'll explain it to you, Nancy. When you are so grandiose that you feel that you are at the center of things, that you're limitless, that everybody looks up to you and admires you, you feel no need to bathe because you're such and such doesn't stink, right? That's where that phrase comes from. You feel that people will admire you no matter how you look, no matter how you smell, that you are beloved. And that's why, you know, it's interesting when I have patients come into my eye, office who are disheveled, poorly dressed, but maybe they're celebrities. I do have it. That's one of

the tells or the signs of pathological narcissism because they are not concerned about how other people view them because they believe that they are constantly admired. If you know or think you know anything regarding the death of state's witness, Jeffrey Epstein, dial 800. 2-25-5-3-2-4. Repeat. 800-2-25-5-3-2-4. We remember an American Hero Trooper Kevin Traynor,

Massachusetts State Police, just 30, killed in the line of duty after three years on the force, leaving behind a devastated fiancé, Jessica. American Hero Trooper Kevin Trayner. Thank you. our guests for being with us, but especially to you for being with us tonight. Nancy Gray, signing off for tonight, but I'll see you tomorrow and I. And until then, good night, friend. This is an I-heart podcast. Guaranteed human.