Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - HELL PIX: HORROR PHOTOS INSIDE IDAHO MURDERS AFTER KOHBERGER SLAUGHTERS STUDENTS, PARENTS SUE

Episode Date: January 23, 2026

Family members of Bryan Kohberger's victims are shocked by the new release of graphic crime scene photos with little warning. Kaylee Gonsalves' parents say they were made aware of it just hours before. The redacted photos show the bedrooms where the murders took place, clearly showing blood spatter on the walls, blood dripping on the beds, and blood smears on the floor where a battle of life and death took place. As it turned out, three of the photos showed body parts and the victims, and had to be taken down by the police. The families of Kaylee, Madison, Xana, and Ethan have filed a lawsuit against WSU, claiming the killings should not and would not have occurred if Washington State University had acted on multiple complaints about Kohberger's inappropriate, predatory, and menacing behavior, the suit seeks unspecified monetary damages and a jury trial for negligence and the wrongful deaths of their loved ones. The 126-page complaint alleges WSU is at fault for bringing Kohberger to the Pullman-Moscow area, where they accepted him into their criminal justice program and hired him as a teaching assistant. Within weeks of Kohberger's arrival, WSU knew there were accusations of Kohberger's threatening, stalking, and predatory behavior led to more than a dozen formal complaints being filed about Kohberger. The families say WSU failed by not taking action and following up on the complaints about Kohberger, ignoring the warning signs that allowed Kohberger's behavior to escalate unchecked. The families claim, "On November 13, 2022, a foreseeable - and, in fact, predictable - tragedy occurred when Kohberger entered the bedrooms of four undergraduate students and violently stabbed them to death. These deaths should not and would not have occurred if WSU had acted appropriately." As the lawsuit heads to court, Kohberger's sister gives an exclusive interview discussing how the family is hurting. Joining Nancy Grace today: Kristi Goncalves - Mother   Steve Goncalves - Father  Eric Faddis - Partner at Varner Faddis Elite Legal, Former Felony Prosecutor and Current Criminal Defense and Civil Litigation Attorney; Instagram: @e_fad @varnerfaddis; TikTok: @varnerfaddis Dr. Bethany Marshall -  Psychoanalyst, Author: "Deal Breaker," and featured in hit show "Paris in Love" on Peacock; Instagram & TikTok: drbethanymarshall, X: @DrBethanyLive Chris McDonough – Director at the Cold Case Foundation, Former Homicide Detective; Host of YouTube Channel: “The Interview Room” Howard Blum - Author: "When The Night Comes Falling, A Requiem for The Idaho Student Murders;" Instagram: howard_blum_author, X: howardblum Joseph Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author of "Blood Beneath My Feet," and Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan;" X @JoScottForensic Susan Hendricks  -  Journalist, Author: “Down the Hill: My Descent into the Double Murder in Delphi", IG @susan_hendricks X @SusanHendicks   Dave Mack - Investigative Reporter, 'Crime Stories’  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Hell picks, pictures straight from hell. Horrific photos from inside the brutal Idaho murders of four beautiful young University Idaho students. Why? Were those photos leaked?

on the Idaho State Police website and then quickly scrubbed away. Hello. Everybody saw it. This, after Brian Coburger slaughters innocent students, the parents sue. Do you blame them? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.

I want to thank you for being with us. Inside the Brian Coburger murder scene, the truth of what happened. That night when four beautiful University of Idaho students were slaughtered in their own beds. This would have been a bloodbask where they were killed. Now the family that's still dealing with the brutal murder of their children are having to take on a fight so these vile photos are not released.

What in the hay? Haven't the victim's families been through enough I cannot imagine? Last night, under immense pressure for our program to show the photos, I I looked at them. I had to get on the phone with our investigative reporter Dave Mack and actually broke down and cried looking at these photos. And there is no way in He-E-D-L that we're going to go along with leaked photos that just destroy the families.

I saw only one probative photo of what was leaked. The rest was just gore. One probative photo that actually meant something that proved. something and that was the location of the knife sheet. Joining me right now two very special guests, the parents of the beautiful Kelly Gonzalez.

Thank you to both of you for being with us. It means so much that at this moment when you are under siege again, again, that you take time to be with us tonight. So So thank you.

I've got so much to talk to you about. Of course, Brian Koberger's sister does a New York Times article whining about how hurt she is and the pain her family is going through. Really? But before I get to her, what about these photos? When did you, now this is what we're learning, Christy, we are learning that the Idaho State Police put these on their website and then quickly went, and scrubbed the whole thing. They were leaked onto the website. What happened when you first learned these pictures from hell?

Hell had been released. Well, actually, one of the Idaho State Police detectives called Olivia and told her that the photos were coming out. And they were a different entity as the other ones were that were underneath the order that the Laramese and the Chapins won, being able to not show bodies or blood, and these were going to be a little different. The bodies were going to be redacted, but the crime scene was going to be pretty evident. So this entity called Olivia.

By the time she got off the phone, she was calling me in a panic and telling me that they were coming out, they were coming out, and they were out. They were already on the website. like Olivia is pretty adamant about, you know, viewing things and wants to know what's out there. She doesn't just want to come upon something and be surprised. So somewhere along the line, it was very apparent that there were three pictures that showed the victims that did not get redacted. And it came down. It came down because there were three.

but whoever had downloaded those in that timeframe before, I don't know how long it was up, have those pictures of actual victims. So it's very sad. This whole thing is turned into a profit-making enterprise. The day before they told us that because somebody complained that did FOIA requests that the families were getting the photos at the same time, we no longer get the photos.

We don't get any of the discovery from these images, or anything that's been a FOIA request, they get it first. And then we can get it after them. Did you see a photo with the students? I'm trying to choose my words carefully. But I don't have another way to say it. Did you see photos, crime scene photos, horrific bloody crime scene photos, with the victim's bodies in the photos.

Did you see that? unfortunately yes I don't understand why they can't ever do the right thing Steve they did not take this case to trial they did not find out the truth this was a death penalty case

if we're going to have the death penalty this is it they took a weak plea we never learned the whole truth they wouldn't do the right thing and now this they are buckling under to a foyer

request, but they don't even have the courtesy to give it to you first? When, do they pick and choose when to follow the law? Well, just to the other family that ever goes through a case like this, just know they're going to lie to you. They're going to tell you in your weakest moment that if you just wanted to make it go away, just go along with the plea, just go along and all the stuff will go away. And I had legal counsel and they were like, that's not going to go away. They're just lying to these families, trying to divide them so that they can get at least

somebody to agree with what they're doing, and then that's all they need. Even though there's four victims, and you can get a death penalty for one, they wanted to break us apart to help their narrative, and we're still dealing with it. We're still doing with it right now. Well, I've got to tell you something, Mr. Mrs. Gonsalves, after my fiancé was murdered, of court, I was a witness at the trial. and I remember coming down off the witness stand. I had never been in a courtroom.

I didn't know anything about the justice system at all. When I came off the witness stand, it was way high up by the judge's head. I came down, then there was a landing. Then there were more steps to come down. And I walked out and I looked over and I saw Keith's bloody shirt. And I was just a young girl, but I will never forget that moment. I had not seen it. I didn't know about it.

I knew what he was wearing that morning when he left. It was a denim shirt to go to his job at a construction site. But I had not seen, did not see any of the evidence until I saw that, his bloody clothes lying on the council table. And that one moment has crystallized in my mind after all these years. So I don't know how you can even close your eyes and go to sleep at night after you've seen the crime scene photos that were leaked and then scrubbed. on the police side. What did that do to you, Christy? So,

um, so, you know, I chose to look very quickly. Um, unfortunately, sometimes it just gets me other times I'm no, but I was like,

I got a, you know, and it was, I did not look at a lot. I did not look, you know, for long. Um,

I pretty much was out of there, like, quickly, but it's hard to unsee. And I knew that. I knew that. I knew what would happen. What about it, Steve? I haven't seen very many. On the ones that I've seen are just ones that my family wanted me to comment on if it was as bad as, you know, basically show them that, you know, seeing the victims in body bags, things that are not entertainment.

I mean, they're for investigations. And if you're not going to have a trial, you really don't have the same investigation at that point. It's not a need to know. It's not the community and you're not having a jury. So it's kind of frustrating that we're still dealing with. And you know, we get a lot of heat over this because people say, you guys are no different. It is very common for crime scene photos to come out. I get that. I understand that. I feel bad for those families that their loved ones are out there. And this has happened. But I just feel like times are changing. And what people do with. with those photos nowadays is what the real problem is. You know, blow them up on social media and analyze them and talk to talk about them. You know, it's not true crime anymore,

it's troll crime, you know? And that's where things are changing. And it has been for quite a while. They're making a profit off your dead loved ones. And that was going on. They're relishing in it. Yeah, and that was to a lesser extent before, but like your organization isn't showing them,

you're not gonna get that same kind of professionalism in some of these more true crime people. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I remember years ago on what was, it was my very first book. It was called Objection, and I wrote a chapter on called Blood Money, and I was so stunned that people got a hold of Nicole Brown's autopsy photos and were selling them. After I wrote that chapter, Blood Money, I had this cheap little, it was like a $200 laptop, it's like this big that I wrote the book on.

When I finished that chapter, I had to look up so many ghoulish examples of what we're talking about right now. I swear I thought the computer had to be hanked and I destroyed it because I had to write about people buying crime scene photos and scraps from a crime scene that were bloody and autopsy photos, it's just goolish. After you saw that, after you saw that to both of you, how did that affect you? Because I still think back on that moment and I just saw a bloody shirt. You know, I'm not sure if I've really been able to wrap my mind around it, honestly.

I showed, I don't believe you've actually looked at it on your own. I showed Steve one, and it was one of the less graphic ones, and he was like, yeah. So, unfortunately, I went there, and I deeply regret it. I knew I would. I've got to tell you something. I learned, you know, the hard way. I'm very curious by nature. But when it comes to my fiance's murder,

I've learned to control that, my curiosity, because I don't want any more nightmares or any more night terrors or sleepwalking or crying jags than I've already had. So I just, please know, you are in our thoughts and our prayers throughout this whole ordeal. And to put it up and then scrub it shows a certain degree of knowledge that you did the wrong thing.

I want to talk to you now about another Koberger-related incident. Listen. Now, Kovberger's sister, her name, she goes by Mel, spoke to the New York Times. This piece was published on Wednesday, January 7th. The headline, her brother murdered for students. Now she's ready to talk. Well, I'm so happy that she now feels ready to tell her story. The readout in the online version says that Mel is going to talk about the Coburger families, their pain, their confusion.

You know, this thing happened the blink of an eye ago. And when you, so this, this piece is such a piece of journalistic malpractice. The interviewer, the guy's name is Mike Baker. He either does not know nor does he care to read in to the details of this case. But instead, we've got crap like this in the New York Times. Feel sorry for me. My brother is a homicidal maniac who snuffed out four young lives and seemed to enjoy doing it. And it looks like my mom was an accessory after the fact, just my opinion.

But hey, we just want to reenter polite society. Please won't you help us in the New York Times? So sure, why not? That is our friend, Maureen Callahan, from her podcast, The Nerve. And, boy, she hit the nail on the head. Really? Mel is whining to the New York Times, and they're printing their puff piece about her pain, her pain and her family's pain?

Okay. That's the time to keep your pie holes shut. Right there. I would like your response to Coburger's family whining about their pain. You know, I think it's just odd that they would, that's their first time they've chosen to speak out. You know, apparently they stand behind him, whether they believe the truth or not. but they've never spoken out for his innocent. They've never gone out there and said, you know, my brother's innocent.

He didn't do this. He would never do such a thing. But they come out and, you know, say, you know, we're in this terrible situation. Our family is hurting and whatnot. And I don't doubt that their family is having some sort of confusion pain. I don't. I'm sure that they are. But it doesn't even compare.

At all. They could. still talk to him they could write to him they could go visit him um he's still breathing my kids would be if one of my kids did something like this they would be did to our family we would not be supporting them that we would not be i tell all my kids if you do something that atrocious even even like rape it's something like that where you you overly go over somebody else as well you're done this family we're not we're not we would never we would never put up with that and this we're talking about an ambi just got like 30 000

So you got to stand up and say the person's wrong and then remove your support. Otherwise, you're condoning what he did and you're embracing it and you're rewarding him for that behavior. And that's why society has people like this and we will continue to have people like this because we haven't just cut the rope and said, you're done, you're dead, you're dead. You're dead. Even though you're alive, you're dead to us. It's hard to put ourselves in their shoes because a lot of people think they could put themselves in our shoes and speak on behalf of how they would act or they wouldn't have done what we did or they would have done this and that and this and that. And until you're in these shoes, it's hard to really say what you're going to do.

We think we know what we would do if the tables were reversed. So it is hard to actually know for sure that's just our opinion of how we feel as a family. Hey, guys, Consolvis's you sitting down. You may need to lay down. Quotes from Melissa Koberger from the New York Times. Brace yourself. I've always been a person who was spoken up for what was right. Okay, just right there.

Squeaching, screeching, stop. If I ever had a reason to believe my brother did anything, I would have turned them in. Okay. It's confusing. It's painful. It's like being victimized, but not really being a victim. Okay. You're not a victim.

You're not a victim, Melissa Koberger. The idea is making me so emotional, I can barely speak to you about it. It's human nature to be curious about darker things. that's how we keep ourselves safe. I think we should try to come together for a true crime culture. What? Come together for a true crime culture? Now wait, wait.

We're all so proud of him because he had overcome so much. It was a heart surrounded by vibrant colors that I had drawn for Brian, even if I could not be there in person. Okay. I stand up for what is right. She actually said that, Christy. She said that. Yeah, I find it very hard to believe that she doesn't know the truth unless in that situation that they are in. They just have a mental block that will not allow them to accept what he did.

She said in her own words, Brian, you're out at like one, two, three in the morning. Be careful running. So if you know your brother's out, he has the same car. you've got a shared family Amazon account. You're seeing he has the weapon. So now he has the weapon, the car, and he's out around that time. And he lives close.

Yeah, he's less than 10 miles away. Don't tell me you didn't know or you didn't think that he was a suspect. Or why didn't you tell him to go turn his car? Well, according to her, the family knew nothing. Listen. Cover your sister, Mel, saying her family had no idea her brother was a killer

and reached out to warn him to be careful after the murders. Finally, speaking out, she wants to talk about growing up with the killer. No one wants to hear about growing up with Brian Koeberger, but this does not bode well for her mental health care career if she lived with a psycho killer her whole life and didn't notice anything was wrong. Okay, joining me right now, Dr. Bethany Marshall. She's renowned psychologist out of the L.A. jurisdiction, author of Deal Breakers. You can see her on Peacock. and you can find it at Dr. Bethany Marshall.com. Dr. Bethany Marshall, I ask that you tread very lightly while the Gonzalves family is with us.

But what is with this person? It's my understanding, and you investigative reporter Susan and Dave, jump in if I'm wrong, but she has a career in mental health care, and she lived with a psycho killer her whole life and didn't notice a thing? That does not vote well. No, there's so many reports about Brian Kohlberger that exposed the fact that he stalked, that the staff at the university had meetings about him, there were complaints about him. I'm sure he exhibited that same behavior at home.

There's a term the mask of sanity when it comes to psychopaths, meaning that they wear the mask of sanity. They pretend that they're more sane than they really are, but Brian Koberger did not pretend he was sane. It was apparent to everybody around him. Why not Mel? And the thing about Melissa, you know, in order to be a therapist, you have to have profound empathy for others. In her interview, she expresses no empathy for the families of the victims. Well, even giving the interview about her pain and her family's pain.

Okay, one thing before the Gonzales leave us, I want to speak to them about what? This woman just said, Coburger's sister, the family had no idea. But let me lay something out for you and then I will explore it more in depth of the rest of our panel. The phone records tell a very different story, Mr. and Mrs. Gonzalez, and I'm sure you already know this, but for those that don't, for the phone records, the murders of four beautiful students, including Kili Gonzalez, occur between 405 and 4.20 a.m. A.m.

Koberger turns his phone off between 2.30 and 4.30 a.m. He turns the phone back on, on his way from the crime scene, back to his apartment in Pullman, 445 to 5 a.m. He immediately starts calling his mother around 6 a.m. Now, he's just turned his phone. phone back on, starts calling his mother over and over and over and over obsessively. She doesn't pick up. Maybe she's sleeping. Then, in a fit of anger, he calls his father and says, why won't she pick up the phone? Well, she picks up the phone quickly after that, 617, calls mom on a phone call that lasts 36 minutes. 803.

He is now driving back to the crime scene to view his handiwork. This is very common amongst criminals. They return to the crime scene. Don't know why. Why does a dog make a circle three times before it sits down? Don't know, but they do. He calls Mommy. Speaks nearly an hour driving around the crime scene.

Did mom tell him to go back and get that knife sheath? Did she advise him to confess or not to speak? This is just 120 minutes after the murders. And he's on the phone with Mommy. 9 a.m., he's back on the phone. What were they talking about? Five phone calls over three hours at the time immediately after the murders. To Steve and Christy Consolves,

You want me to believe she knew nothing, and as a sister is saying to the New York Times. We had no idea. Really? What were they talking about? Have you thought about this? Oh, yeah. We know more than just that. We know from some of the stuff they pulled from his phone. She sent him links to the story. So not that same day, but shortly after. Yeah, shortly after. So yeah, yeah. And we know about they gave the blowout out on the car and then just within a day or two, they start booking a flight to go get him. And then he wasn't coming back with that car. that whole trip to Pennsylvania was to get rid of evidence, his car, and help him clean it.

As soon as he pulled up to the house, dad jumped out of the car, moved his car out, and put his in the garage. So yeah, there's more to that too, but there's only so much we can focus on and so much we can work on, but we're not fools. Yeah. And I mean, and we do know that he was wearing gloves inside the house almost the whole time.

Matter of fact, when they went in to arrest him, He was indeed sitting at the kitchen table wearing gloves, sorting trash. Now, whether he was doing that, why the family was all sleeping, I find it hard to believe that they didn't notice that he was going around wearing gloves. Maybe he was shorting trash only right. They were asleep and they didn't notice that. But why are you just walking around the house wearing gloves? Why are you out there obsessively in your car?

Right there, Christy, you know, this morning, as my daughter was walking out, I went, hold on, you've got a white fuzzy attached to your leg. And I went over and got it off and she walked out the door. I noticed that. They didn't notice he was wearing gloves in the house. They didn't want to notice it is what it is. Sorting his garbage. Those phone calls to me are damning.

They're damning. And I wonder if the mother was ever questioned about what the content of those phone calls over and over and over going to the crime scene, going around and around. and around like a vulture at the crime scene. What were they talking about? Was she questioned to the Gonzalves family? I beg you not to look at the photos any further. I beg you, because it's going to be up here the rest of your life.

What is your message tonight, Mr. Mrs. Gonzalez? You know, it really is just, you know, with society changing the way it is, and people, so many people having access to it via the internet and being able to get these pictures, they fall in the wrong hands. And it's just- Everybody's a news network, but they don't have the education to be a journalist. I mean, an 18-year-old TikToker, you know,

getting them out there and just spreading. I wouldn't have done the right thing at 18 either. So it's just our leaders have to be better than this. And we are no different than people. in the past. I'm not trying to say that we're better but things need to change. It's a time to change this. You know what? For the first

time ever, Mr. Mrs. Gonsalves, I completely disagree with you. I think right is right and wrong is wrong. And there's no excuse for that. There's no excuse for hurting the victim's families for your own

monetary gain. For a moment, for another click, for a higher rating, It's wrong. As I tell, I've told my children, if it feels wrong, it is wrong. There's something wrong when you feel like, is this right? It's not right. When you feel those tingles or you feel hot, when you're saying something or doing something, stop.

Because it's wrong. And your conscience is telling you that's wrong. So I can't explain it away with the time. times they be a changing. That doesn't cut it with me. But please know tonight, you are in our prayers, as always, and thank you for joining us. Thank you for having us.

Convicted quadruple killer Brian Coburger. Plegg guilty to slaughtering four people that he thought he would find asleep in their beds. Four beautiful University of Idaho students. These final moments that they have just screaming for life, screaming for air. I can't stress enough. the brutality of the crime scene photos and to re-victimize these victims and their families.

Family of Coburger's victims shocked by graphic crime scene photos released to the public with little warning. They were made aware of the release just hours before. The photos show the bedrooms where the murders took place, clearly showing blood spatter on the walls, blood dripping on the beds, and blood smears on the floor where a battle of life and death took place. Photos show the bedrooms. the knife sheath, Coburger left behind in Maddie's bed, the piece of evidence that put Coburger in the room when the murders took place. Photos show the floor and walls with blood smeared, sheets drenched with blood, the spatter smears and dripping, showing the brutality of the horrific murders and the battle they took place. Joining me in an all-star panel to make sense of what we

are learning tonight. First, the photos. The only photo that I saw of any probative value, wait for it. I'm not going to it yet. Is the knife sheath found under a victim's body. To Dave Mack joining me, Crime Stories, investigative reporter. We went through the photos one by one last night, and it was heartbreaking. Describe what you saw. Nancy, I am so thankful of the decision you've made to not show the photos. what I saw was worse than anything I imagined throughout all of our coverage of this.

And when I saw the blood in the bedrooms, I mean, we're talking on the floor, on the bed, on the walls. We're not talking about a car accident. We're talking about girls being horrifically murdered by cars. And what we're looking at, there was one of the photos, Nancy, that shows one of the girls' hair in the blood. And all I could think of was my own daughters. And all I could think of was the families being subjected to this. For what?

For a real interest, the blood is worse than we were told. Oh, it's much worse than what we thought we were going to see. Justice Scott Morgan joining me, Professor Forensics. Jacksonville State University with an incredible criminal procedure program. Author, Blood Beneath My Fe, Star of Body Bags with Joe Scott. We're going to hit podcast. Joe Scott, how many times was Kelly stabbed in the face that Gonzales, as a daughter, to the point her teeth are stabbed out of her mouth?

Yeah, it's in excess of 20. And here's the problem. You can't actually count them accurately because there's cross-communications. between the injuries, Nancy, that kind of overlap. That's how much damage was done. And the level of brutality, you know, is something that, you know, is going to ring in our ears forever and ever because we've all heard this before. But now, because of a decision that has been made relative to this imagery, it refocuses it in a very ghoulish way against the

wishes of the family. And Nancy, I got to tell you something, you know, here at Jack State, I work with current and former practitioners. That means that we're all investigators, current forensic scientists. And you know, Nancy, to a person, when I poll them, I asked them, do you guys, to the best of your recollection, recall homicide that you have worked that has been adjudicated and the subject is in an institution somewhere. And then after this, all of the crime scene images are released by your organization or the DA or whoever it is to a person that couldn't recall a single instance. Nancy, I worked in New Orleans and Atlanta. And from an official standpoint, I don't ever recall.

Now, that doesn't mean that there haven't been leaked things over the years. But this goes so far beyond the pale that this can be linked back to these people out there that seem to have a complete disconnect. with reality. I don't understand what is wrong with these people, Dr. Bethany Marshall. Why? Why the release and then quickly scrub it off the screen knowing they did a bad thing, not telling the parents in advance, they have to find out. And then the people that are enjoying, looking at them, the Consolves pointed out, I'm going

to double check with Susan Hendricks, the Gonzales says pointed out, this is no longer an investigation, it's over. So why now? What is there to prove or disprove probatively? It's over. And when Dave and I were looking at the crime scene photos last night, Bethany, a lot of them are just the blood smeared on the wall, on the floor, where you can see there was a struggle, a horrific struggle in blood. And the parents are going to have to go, that's Kelly's blood, that's Maddie's blood. That's Ethan's blood. Just what is wrong with these people? You know what's wrong, Nancy,

is there is profound disregard for the families in Mel's interviews, in the police department, whoever released those photos. These are law enforcement, the people who release the photos. They should know that there are people out there with ghoulish interests in gore, in

crime, and that these photos will be used in an exploitive kind of way. You know, Nancy, in the DSM, the diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders, it describes that it's more traumatic to see a loved one hurt than to be hurt yourself, all right? To see a loved one stabbed in a car accident and pain, a loved one with cancer, because we human beings, we are wired to connect. So how could the law enforcement not have known that one little slip putting these photos out there and that they would spread like wildfire all over the internet? And, you know, these people who are in charge of these ghoulish pictures who are using them, exploiting them, they have profound disregard for the family too. It's just, it's so sad.

Joining me is Susan Hendricks, investigative journalist, author of Down the Hill, My Descent, into the Double Murder, in Delpherson. Susan, how did this happen? It wasn't just a standard SOP release of crime scene photos because it was placed up on the Idaho State Police website and then quickly scrubbed off. What happened? Nancy, that's the question. How did they get out? Were they leaked? Were they released and quote unquote redacted, if you will? I mean, as we just heard, you could see one of the victim's hair. It's unbelievable. The the families have to be re-victimized again. Well, you know, to Chris McDonough joining us, director, Cole Case Foundation, former homicide detective, worked over 300 homicides over 25 years, and he's a star of a YouTube channel where I found him,

the interview room. Chris, thank you for being with us. You and I have walked the crime scene and been intimately involved with the logistics of the murders. Chris, there's not a lot probative that proving anything about many of these photos. They're ghoulish. The one photo that I saw that proved anything to me was the knife sheath. Let's see that. We've seen it. We've heard about it. This shot there, there you see the knife on the bed. The sheets are splattered with blood, and Joe Scott Morgan

can explain what those blood droplets mean. This will be the only photos that we're show of these pictures from hell. Chris, this knife sheath changed the trajectory, changed to the course of this investigation. Is it typical for crime victims' families to have to look at the crime scene photos? I always tried to shield them, Chris. No, absolutely not, Nancy. It is not typical. And the family has every right to feel outright. and shocked. I mean, this is beyond the pale. What that knife sheet, though, does tell us is that

Haley solved this crime by her fighting, by her, and we see that in the blood evidence with Dr. Morgan, we'll talk about here in a minute. But what we see there is the fact that he lost control because she gained control, and that's the brutality that he had to deliver as a result. of that, and that's why that night sheep is there. Joe Scott Morgan, what do we see? What do those blood droplets on the bed? I think that's Maddie Mogan's bed where the knife was found, the knife sheath. What do those droplets tell you?

Well, they're immediately adjacent to the sheath, which, by the way, is face down. The USMC is not visible on the sheath, which we've heard a lot about. This is a K-bar sheath. The size of these droplets, Nancy, indicate to me that there is some level. of velocity or speed in their deposition. So this is something that you're going to see either in an action move. It's not like passively dripping where you get the big drops. This is coming off of the action of actually stabbing or casting at that point in time.

So they don't they don't all have little tails on them, but you can see that there is some level of velocity because of the size of these things. They're concentrated. They're very tiny. Tell me exactly what's going on. One of our, one of the roommates who passed out and she was drunk last night and she was not like the up. Okay. Oh, and they saw some man in their house last night.

Yeah. Hi, this is he-in- And are you with the patient? Okay, I need someone to keep the phone, stop passing it around. Can I just tell you what happened pretty much? What is going on currently? Is someone passed out right now? I don't really know what pretty much at 4 a.m.

Okay, I need to know what's going on right now if someone is passed out. Can you find that out? Yeah, I'll come. Come on. You've got to go check. But we have to. Brian Coburger pled guilty to four murders. They were worse than murders. They were slaughters. The nature of the murders was more akin to a butchering, a slaughtering.

Does it never end for the victim's families? But now they have another fight on their hands, trying to stop vile images of their children in debt being released. And tonight, the parents sue Washington State University. Listen, that's really interesting. If he had been thrown out, he wouldn't have even been there. Exactly. Yep. He should have been thrown out before he ever killed these kids. That's the truth. They should have set a standard and said, look, we don't put up with this in our university. You cross the line. you're done. It's not even our decision. It's just your behavior. We're holding you accountable.

You should behave like this. That's the expectations in Washington State University, and you either do it or you don't. There were so many red flags. Listen. He had 13 in the first semester. The first one came in August. That's the first month that you come to school. And then 12 after. And November had a huge, you know, Thanksgiving break. And then he didn't. even go the whole month of December. He took off like December 9th or 10th. And there's 13 formal complaints. Dr. Bethany Marshall, what was wrong with WSU, Washington State University, at least 13 complaints by women by students? It got so bad. Even a professor was complaining. I think they thought they were going to get sued if they fired Coburger. Well, they're getting sued now

because they did nothing. They had their eye on the wrong thing, Nancy. Even one professor came forward and said, do not give this guy a PhD, because if you do, you will see him in the news. Years from now, he will have raped, murdered, killed somebody. So there were multiple people coming forward. And I do think the university was paralyzed

at the thought that Brian Koberger would sue them. And in fact, they saw themselves as a potential victim, rather than thinking about all the victims in the classroom. Nancy, university students, especially women, between the ages of 18 and 22, are notoriously targeted for rapes and crimes. We know this about college campuses. So the fact that they did not even use their own internal risk assessment procedure

to protect these victims, it's just shocking. The lawsuit alleges almost immediately upon arrival to Pullman, Moscow, Coburger developed a reputation for harassing and stalking, instilling fear among female students and fellow WSU employees. Records show at least 13 complaints were filed against Coburger by other students in the criminology program. Classmates and professors found Coburger sexist and creepy. Female students avoided being left alone with him and one faculty member warned he had the potential to become a future rapist. A faculty member said Coburger is, quote, smart enough that in four years we will have to give him a Ph.D. But mark my word.

I work with predators. If we give him a Ph.D., that's the guy in many years when he is a professor. We will hear he's harassing, stalking, and sexually abusing his students at wherever university. My stars. And to Howard Blum, a renowned author, he wrote, When the Night Comes Falling Requiem for the Idaho Students' Murder. He has an article out this weekend in Air Mail titled, Did B.K. have a lot. an accomplice. I make the case.

Howard Blum, it goes on and on. It was so bad that there was a system set up for female students to text or email when they needed an escort to their car because they were afraid of

Coburger. I mean, you have been on this case from the beginning. Why didn't they act? I agree with the Consolves family. I agree with them too, and I think it's really interesting that for once all four families are uniting to make a point. And I think their point is not specifically against WSU, Washington State University, but they want to establish

once and for all that students, when your parents send students off to a university or a college, that they are protected. The university has a responsibility to make sure that their students are safe. And Washington State University ignored this. And it can't be. be done at Washington State University. It can't be done at other universities around the country. And that's the real purpose of this lawsuit. And it's a good one. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Eric Fattis joining me, high-profile lawyer, founder of the law offices of Eric Fattis, former felony prosecutor. Eric, what can Washington State University say in their defense? Because

it's all documented. These are not just, he said this and she said that, they documented it. And then a day late and a dollar short, they decided to have an intervention. Way, way, way too late. Yeah, I mean, it seems like there were some clearly documented failures, errors, and omissions on behalf of Washington State University.

I think what they're going to argue, Nancy, is they're going to argue causation, because the plaintiffs have to essentially show that Washington State's universities' failures, caused damages and in some of the claims caused or substantially contributed to the deaths. I think Washington State's going to say, hey, this was a madman. This was a psychopathic killer. We couldn't have done anything to stop this. He would have done this anyway. And so I think that that is the horse they're likely going to ride. The suit alleges the college did not take action in part

because they feared firing Coburger might open WSU up to a lawsuit. After the murders, Coburger's supervising instructor and fellow graduate students immediately thought Coburger committed the murders, but did not contact law enforcement. The plaintiffs named in the suit, Kayla Gansaw's dad, Maddie Mogan's mom, Zana Cronotel's dad, and Ethan Chapin's mom argue WSU was obligated to control Coburger as a teaching assistant and employee and resident of campus housing. They hired him. Dr. Bethany Marshall doesn't anybody check social media anymore?

He talked about his heroin addiction. He talked about the white noise he hears all the time. Remember that? Right when you see snow on your TV. Did they not see any of that? And that he felt like a piece of meat. He had no emotions. When he hugged his family members, he didn't feel anything.

Nancy, this is actually a profound refusal to put their things. together about what was happening at their university. They did not, they looked at all the evidence, they talked about it, they had meetings, everything was documented, but there was a profound lack of a willingness to think, to think about the students, to protect the students. Their fear of being sued was so self-serving. I mean, they prioritized that over women who are potentially raped. They're worried about themselves.

Like Melissa Koberger, she's worried about her family. She's not talking about the victim's families, like all these photos that are being released online, these bullish people who are going to exploit the photos are thinking about themselves. They're not thinking about the family. There is a profound disconnect, Nancy. People are dissociating from the reality of what really. happened during that crime. And I'm sure you heard earlier that immediately after the murders, people at WSU,

fellow grad students and a supervising instructor knew. They immediately knew. Coburger, quote, did it. And they did nothing. It's just how to stop waking up. I'm getting help started that way. Okay. Thank you.

circling back to Howard Bloom, author of the definitive book regarding the Idaho murders when the night comes falling. Howard, what about that sister and her green wig, not judging? She's claiming that she's gotten so famous to avoid being recognized she has to wear heavy makeup in a wig, a green wig or a pink wig, wherever she goes. Okay. But the point is whining to the New York Times about her pain and her. family's pain? Well, I am sympathetic to the sister. I think she's a victim, but I also think she's not

being totally candid. We just heard that at Washington State University, everyone thought he was a suspect or so many people thought he was a suspect. And yet his family had no idea. I don't buy that. I don't buy that at all. I don't believe that the father while he was sitting in a white Honda Alantra while they were going across the country, that the police were looking, he knew were looking for a white Hyundai Alantra, didn't have any idea that this was, his son was involved in these murders. I think they're trying to make the best case possible, but I don't think they're being totally candid. Well, that's certainly putting perfume on the pig, isn't it? Howard Bloom, not being totally candid. Okay. When I saw that article, nothing about the pain, the victims are

going through, nothing at all, all about me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me. That's bizarre. I smell a book in the works. I'm just saying, somebody in the Coburger camp is going to write a book about all their pain. Susan Hendricks, back to the lawsuit. The Consolvesants are not speaking about it. Susan, is it true that women had an email or a text that they could use because they were afraid of Coburger to even walk to their cars? Absolutely. would say 911. I mean, they had a plan. They were petrified of this guy, to even where they had to make a code to say, I'm in trouble here, or leave the door open. I mean, it's just the red flags are

everywhere in this lawsuit. Everywhere, and they were all ignored. Chris McDonough joining us, Cold Case Foundation and start of the interview room. Chris, in so many cases that I prosecuted, by the time I got them, of course, there were felonies that started with. pervy behavior, like peeping tom's, voyeurism, upskirt photos, and then suddenly somebody's raped and somebody's dead. Okay. Are you surprised at all that it all started with his trail of intimidating women at WSU? Who did nothing about it? No, not at all, Nancy.

And you have been connecting these dots from day one. And let's take it one step further. after the murders, right? We have all of this pre-incident behavior that are just huge red flags. But what about when the cops find the white elantra? And they do what? Oh, they just said, oh, we made a mistake. A mistake. Are you kidding me? Do you imagine all that evidence that was lost just within a week after the homicide? This was in confidence at its finest hour. To Eric Fattis joining us, high-profile lawyer, founder of law offices of Eric Fattis, Eric, I have some advice.

Now, I'm not a civil lawyer like you have become, but if I was counseling, WSU, I'd say, don't say anything, issue an apology, a written apology, so nobody can throw questions at you, that you don't have the backbone or the wherewithal to answer. Don't say anything. You'll make it worse. and just settle, settle with the families and go away, lesson learned. Do not fight the families on this lawsuit. There is a trail, a mile wide, just edged with red flags about Brian Coburger, and they did nothing.

I think that's sound advice in part because as the lawsuit proceeds, there's going to be a discovery process whereby Washington State University officials aren't going to be deposed they're going to be asked questions under oath peppered with inquiries from the plaintiff's side. They're going to have to answer questions under oath in writing. They're going to have to provide materials. And we're going to learn a lot more about these alleged failures on behalf of the university. And I think Steve Consolves earlier in the program said it best. You know, he said, our leaders need to be better.

And that seems like the theme of this lawsuit. Well, the thing is this. Not only are they going to have to answer questions, they're going to have to depose the victim's families. You know what? You can ride that deposition straight to hell, putting the families through that too. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye, friend.

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