Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - "HE'S A MONSTER:" HIDDEN SIDE OF PALMETTO CHILD-PORN PASTOR SUSPECT

Episode Date: August 9, 2024

On social media, Pastor Jonathon Elwing calls himself a husband, father, child of God, and serving Christ as a minister of his Gospel.   So, when the Manatee County Sheriff's office gets a tip from cryptocurrency company "coin base" that the 43-year-old Senior Pastor of Palm View Baptist Church may have used cryptocurrency to buy child pornography, investigators know you can't judge a book by its cover.  The Manatee County Sheriff's office secures a search warrant for Jonathon Elwing's home and Palm View Baptist Church.    Elwing gives investigators the passcode for his personal phone. And as the investigator  begins to look, Jonathon Elwing admits he sometimes purchases adult pornography from a "third party."  He adds it is possible that child pornography would be a part the purchase without his knowledge. Elwing says when he sees the child pornography images or videos, he deletes them.    Still, cops find four of the items located on Elwing's personal cellphone depict Child Sexual Abuse Material while still at the home. Infact, the forensic search of Jonathon Elwing's cell phone reveals images of him sexually battering a child, along with production and possession of 12 images child sexual abuse material. Then,  investigators are able to extract hidden files from Elwing's personal cellphone and deputies say he is using a private photo vault app to hide at least 14 pictures of him sexually abusing a two-year-old child.  JOINING NANCY GRACE TODAY: Stacey Honowitz  - Assistant State Attorney, Sex Crimes & Child Abuse Unit, Author: "My Private Parts are Private", "Genius with a Penis - Don't Touch!" and “The Bully at School is Really Uncool”, staceyhonowitz.com, Instagram: @staceybhonowitz Caryn Stark - Psychologist, renowned TV and Radio trauma expert and consultant, www.carynstark.com, Instagram: carynpsych, FB: Caryn Stark Private Practice John Pizzuro - Raven’s CEO,  Fmr. New Jersey State Police Commander of the Internet Crimes Against Children (ICAC) Task Force, Fmr. New Jersey State Police --https://raven.us/team/ Anna Sonoda - Child sex abuse/grooming expert/Clinical Social Worker/Counsels convicted sex offenders- Author, Duck Duck Groom Jordan Litwiller -  Reporter/Anchor, Reporter -WWSB - ABC 7 News,  IG: @jordanlitwiller         See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. He's a monster. A claim of a hidden side emerging of a Palmetto child porn pastor suspect. You heard me right. A Palmetto pastor accused of child porn and more. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Florida detectives receive a tip that Pastor Jonathan Elwing used cryptocurrency to buy child sexual abuse material on the dark web. Those are words you don't want in the same sentence together. A so-called Christian

pastor and child porn, all in the same sentence. A former Palmetto, emphasis on former pastor, arrested for child pornography is now facing over a dozen new charges stemming from the child porn. Who is this guy? Listen. Preaching the gospel in several areas of Florida with his wife and four children in tow, Pastor Jonathan Elwing is the picture of what a conservative Christian leader looks like.

So when the Manatee County Sheriff's Office gets a tip from cryptocurrency company Coinbase that the 43-year-old senior pastor of Palmview Baptist Church may have used cryptocurrency to buy child pornography, investigators know you can't judge a book by its cover. But Elwing has a pretty good cover. Is he? Is he a quote pretty good cover? You know what? I could talk about this Palmetto pastor all day long till I'm blue in the face, but let's take a listen from the horse's mouth. And this video from the Palm View First Baptist Church YouTube channel. Is if you spent all your time searching for the truth and you haven't found it and you're tired

of trying to live a life that is pleasing to God because you realize that you can't do it. And he says, I want you to come to me. And when a person sincerely comes to Jesus Christ, admitting that they need to be saved from their sin, then they are aware that they can no longer, they could never have saved themselves. You know, I don't know, I'm not a biblical scholar, although I try my best and fail spectacularly. Somewhere in there, there's got to be something about,

you know what's the worst? A hypocrite. A hypocrite. Remember how Christ would make a point of referring to the scribes and the Pharisees and how hate was in their hearts? Just think about that for just one moment. And yet he's taking he, this guy,

Jonathan Edward Elwing, seems to be taking Christ's words and totally like twisting them around because we know he's charged not only with child pornography, but actually attacking children. Jordan Litwiller joining us, investigative reporter and anchor, WWSB, that's ABC7. He's also at mysuncoast.com. Jordan, tell me about the charges on this pastor. Yeah, so 43-year-old Jonathan Elwing is facing 18 separate charges, two different cases. In the first case, he's facing four charges of possessing child pornography, and then in the separate case, he's facing six additional counts of possessing child pornography, as well as six counts of using a child to engage in sex, one count of capital

sexual battery by someone above the age of 18 committed against somebody under the age of 12, and also one count of lewd and lascivious molestation. He was initially facing two counts of that capital sexual battery, but those charges have since changed, dropping one of those charges and changing it into that molestation charge. Jordan, you got me drinking from the fire hydrant again. You just rattled all that off before I could even take it in. Okay, hold on. What kind of a pastor is this guy?

Baptist? Is he a Catholic? Is he a Unitarian? What is he? Yeah, so he's a Baptist pastor. He graduated from a university, a Florida Baptist university in 2004. He was then an associate pastor at a couple of different churches here in the area in Florida. And then he became a lead pastor here at the church at First Baptist in Palmetto back in 2019. So he's been a pastor for over two decades. He was actually replacing a pastor at

this church who was there for over 40 years. Obviously, the congregation and the members of that church were hoping he would be the next long-term pastor, but obviously that didn't end up being the case. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Usually I say to the guests, you're talking too slowly. You're talking, I can't drink in everything you're saying. And in my world, Jordan, every fact is important. Okay. Did you say he's Baptist? Is that what you said? Yeah. Yep. That's correct. Okay. Thank you, Lord, for him not being Methodist. Okay. I'm a United Methodist. And after the United Methodist pastor that killed not one, but two wives, I mean, okay, I'm sure that the Baptists are spinning like tops right now. So this guy, Jordan Litwiller, has how many charges against him? How many charges have been leveled at Jonathan Edward Elwing?

How many? 18. Now, does that include the child porn and the offenses on children, the sex attacks on children? Yeah, so that includes everything. There's the initial charges, which was the four cases of possessing child pornography. That ultimately led to 14 additional charges, which actually he was found pictured abusing children on his phone. Hold on just a moment. He videos himself molesting children? Did I get that right, Jordan?

So according to the probable cause affidavit, after the initial photos were found, the forensic scientist did another deep dive of his phone. A couple of days later, I believe it was four days later, where they found six additional pictures. And then he was actually pictured in those images. Yeah, allegedly abusing, sexually abusing a two year old. OK, Jordan, again, you're just like rattling this off. Did you hear what you just said? Allegations he sex abused a two-year-old. What is exactly the charge on the abuse of the two-year-old? Is it sodomy? Is it child rape? Is it some sort of a lesser molestation? What is he accused of doing to a two-year-old child? So that's the charge of capital sexual battery of someone above the age of 18 on someone who is less than 12.

And what is capital sex battery in the state of Florida? I can only assume that's full-on rape or sodomy. Which one is it? Yes, he is accused of fully raping a two-year-old. Okay, I'm not often left speechless, but right now I am. John Pizzoro is Raven CEO, former New Jersey State Police Commander, Internet Crimes Against Children Task Force, and so much more. John, do you ever, I mean, you and I have seen it all. But every time I hear about a new case, I feel sick all over again.

Do you ever just want to quit because it's too much? I think about it, but then I hear about somebody like Jonathan Edward Elwing, and I feel that I've got to keep going. You know, I'm not surprised, Nancy, anymore. I mean, really, the amount of people that would do this. And look, two-year-olds, unfortunately, Tor or the dark web, that's where he was. There's so many platforms on actually how to really rape children on these platforms.

So these are the places that he played at, right? That's where he learned. And generally, in my experience, there's going to be a lot more victims. He just didn't wake up last week and decide to start this, right? So I think this has been going on for a while. So from an investigation standpoint, you're going to have to look at his whole career as a pastor and how many opportunities he had to be around children. You know, Karen Stark joining me, renowned psychologist, TV radio trauma expert. She's at karenstark.com. That's Karen with a C, I always say, in case you're trying to find her. You know, Karen Stark, when you first met me, I was getting my, what was I getting at that point?

An LLM, a Master's of Law in Criminal and Constitutional Law at NYU New York University. But prior to that, I was at Mercer University, a small Baptist university, which was all about love. But, you know, this type of a crime can brand a religion, or does it? Because this guy's a Baptist preacher, but we really see it across the board. We see Catholic priests who molested choirboys and others. I told you about the United Methodist pastor that killed two wives. Hello. You couldn't

catch him the first time. He had to kill another wife before you can catch him. And it goes on and on and on. So no religion is immune to its leaders committing crimes, but it seems more shocking and it shouldn't. It shouldn't. But it seems more shocking because it's just the opposite of what we think because someone in this position has access to children they're usually in good standing in the community that's not unusual at all and they have access because they want to be around children and they want people not to suspect them so just like you said that's a great way for them to hide and get away with doing what they're doing. And I'm not the least bit shocked. Nobody should be because that is the way that they operate. A search of the church and Elwing's home reveals several hidden cameras. Oh, dear Lord in heaven.

First, I've got this Baptist pastor out of Palmetto with alleged child porn on his phone. He, idiot, paid for it with crypto and they reported him. And thank goodness I've got Jordan Litwiller here, investigative reporter and anchor at WWSB, that's ABC7. You can also find him at mysuncoast.com. Thank goodness I've got him to give me all the facts. But what I'm understanding from him right now and from the documents that I've read

is this all started with cryptoo calling and reporting this pastor allegedly is buying child porn with Crypto. That leads to a search warrant and they get him. He hands over his phone. Thank you very much. And they start searching it and they find the alleged child porn and it's actually him

starring in a child porn video. So that leads me to the alleged rape of a two-year-old, not just the alleged rape of a two-year-old, he videoed it. Okay. Jordan Littwiller, thank goodness that you are fair and impartial. Could you please give me these facts in a nutshell one more time and don't go so fast. I have to dissect it. Okay. Go ahead, Jordan. Thank you. So do you want me to start from very beginning? The beginning. Absolutely. I'm one of those people that need repetition, repetition. And did I mention repetition? Okay, go ahead. What happened? Yep. So I talked to Coinbase's global intelligence office. They said that Jonathan Elwing made a purchase around $10 worth of cryptocurrency. He sent that money to an address who was flagged by the compliance team at Coinbase. Once that purchase

was verified, they knew that it was a purchase from an account who is known to have sold child pornography in the past. They flagged that purchase, went to the Florida Department of Homeland Security, who then connected Coinbase with local law enforcement. Local law enforcement was then able to carry out the search warrant and talk to Jonathan Elwing. And one thing to include, Jonathan Elwing actually prefaced things by saying to local detectives that he would buy adult pornography. So he admitted to that before handing over his phone.

And he said that sometimes the seller would include pictures of child pornography, but that there shouldn't be any on his phone at that time. And he said he would always delete those images. Ultimately, that didn't end up being the case, apparently, as the local law enforcement agencies did find images of child pornography on his phone. They then took him in for an interview. Okay, Jordan, I need to understand what you just said. I remember when I wrote my first book, Objection, and one of the chapters was about, as I called it, blood money, where people, they're ghouls. They sell, for instance, I remember Angel Resendez, I believe that was his name, would sell his hair and his toenails and his fingernail scrapings from behind bars and actually make money.

He is a serial killer. Okay, let's see. Maybe it was Angelic Rosendez Ramirez. Anyway, and I started writing about people that sell ghoulish content for money. And I called it blood money. And I had like a 250, believe it or not, dollar little laptop. And it was about the size of a spiral notebook that I would write, used to research and write the book. At the end of the book, I destroyed the computer. You know why? Because it had looked up so much horrible content.

I felt the computer was cursed. I know, crazy, right? But I never had something like what he's saying happened. I've gone to certain websites and something else popped up and I immediately closed down the website because it's totally infecting your computer with malware. But I've never heard of child porn just popping up. Is that what he's saying happened? So he's saying that the seller included it in the batch that he bought of adult pornography without his knowledge. He says that he would always delete those images whenever they were accidentally or however you want to put it, included in that batch that he would purchase intentionally of adult pornography. So he says he never intentionally bought any child pornography or had any intentions of having that on his phone. But they would sometimes end up being on his phone because of something that happened on the seller's end.

Okay, Stacey Honowitz joining me, Assistant State's Attorney out of Florida, specialty sex crimes and child abuse, author of My Privates Are Private, author of Genius With a Penis Don't Touch, author of The Bully at School Is Really Uncool, and you can find her at StaceyHonowitz.com. Stacey, I think this would be the perfect moment for you specifically to hear this. Listen. This video is from the Palm View First Baptist Church YouTube channel.

But Jesus doesn't say that forgiveness of God is found by going to church. It's not found by following any living human. It's not found by following a certain teaching. But it is found by forgiveness of sin. Now, I would never be accused of being a saint. That's not going to happen. But I try. I really try every day to do the right thing.

And I do know this as a failing Christian. Talking about Christ's forgiveness, you're not going to get it, I'm pretty sure, by buying child porn. Pretty sure that's not the road to heaven. But that said, the video you just saw is from the Palmview Baptist First YouTube channel. Stacey Honowitz, I love that this guy, if there's anything to love about this case, I love that this guy says, oh, I was buying adult porn. Red flag! And child porn just popped up. Okay, I hear you. But where did the porn come from

that's of you raping a two-year-old child? Did that just pop up on your adult porn site? Help me out, Stacey Honowitz. Well, I don't think anybody would be. Certainly, I'm not shocked. 36 years of doing this type of work. We see this all the time and we do hear the defense of it just popped up. Now, when you're on video raping a child. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Stacey Honowitz, you are a fountain of information. This is her specialty. I just wanted to see your face when you said this. Did you say this is a common defense? It just popped up. Yes, it's a common defense. I mean, what else could they possibly say? They say it got sent to me accidentally.

It just popped up. It came up on my computer. You know, when you couple it with what he's charged with, raping a child and then videotaping it, well, the likelihood is that he's swapping and trading his own tapes. And the other guests that you had on could tell you that in these types of situations, that's what we see. When they are videotaping themselves, they're doing it for a reason. Number one, they're sick. And number two is they are involved in some kind of porno ring where they are trading their own porn for a certain amount of money. So that's what we're seeing here. And when we're talking about a capital case for your viewers and your listeners, we're talking about somebody that's raping someone orally, digitally, or with his sexual organ, and he's looking at life

in prison. The victim is under the age of 12 and he's over the age of 18. That is a capital case in Florida. And so that's what you're seeing here. You're seeing a myriad of child porn coupled with what he's doing himself. So those own those charges. And I can bet you dollars to donuts that once this investigation really gets cracking, you are going to see other victims come forward or they're going to be able to try to identify other victims in the child porn. A forensic cell phone search finds photos of Elwing sexually battering a child. In all, a total of 16 child pornography photos.

Okay, how did we get access to his phone? Listen. Reading the search warrant and having been properly Mirandized, Jonathan Elwing agrees to speak with the investigator. Elwing gives the passcode for his personal phone he took out of his pocket. And as the investigator unlocks the phone and begins to look, Jonathan Elwing says he sometimes purchases adult pornography from a, quote, third party. And it's possible that child pornography would be a part of the purchase without his knowledge. Elwing says when he sees the child pornography images or videos, he deletes them. Elwing says he doesn't want to talk about the adult material that he looks at. So I guess he's claiming a cell phone malfunction because they did not delete.

OK, there's more. Listen. The forensic search of Jonathan Elwing's cell phone reveals image of him sexually battering a child, along with production and possession of 12 images of child sexual abuse material. Elwing admitted to purchasing adult pornography and claims he deletes any child sexual abuse material that, quote, may get mixed in.

However, investigators are able to extract hidden files from Elwing's personal cell phone, and deputies say he's using a private photo vault app to hide at least 14 pictures of him sexually abusing a two-year-old child. Okay, see, you know, you can go to law school, you can then get a fancy degree from not just law school at Mercer, but NYU, but you don't know anything about private photo vault apps. Joining me in addition to Jordan Litwiller, joining us from WWSB, Stacey Honowitz, veteran prosecutor of child sex crimes and child abuse, Karen Stark, renowned psychologist, John Pizzaro, former New Jersey State Police

commander of crimes on children. Now, Anna Sonoda, child sex abuse and grooming expert, author of Duck, Duck, Groom. You focus very often on online grooming. what can you tell me about a private photo vault app well nancy i'm having a hard time keeping my breakfast down this is such a devastating case because it highlights everything we know to be true about grooming which is that predators are serial liars, and they seek out environments where they can access children. So in his role as a pastor, he had hands-on access to children, and he used his personal cell phone to be a sleuth on the dark web. These are not websites that normal, healthy, well-adjusted individuals are going to. This is the dark web. These are places that we rely on IP addresses and the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children to be scrolling to find predators like Jonathan so that

we can take them down. And we need to commend not only Coinbase in this case, but also the local law enforcement in Florida. They have done an outstanding job getting the tip and then following up and doing their job so that we can put this predator away. I agree with everything you just said. I wish I could hear it all over again. Hey, Karen Stark with me. You know Karen Stark, renowned TV radio trauma expert and psychologist. Karen, I would like to tell myself, well, this child was two years old when this happened. They're not going to remember.

They are. They are going to remember. They are. They are going to remember. And even if they lock that memory away and suppress it, it will reemerge, maybe not on their unconscious level, but in the way they raise their children. If they can even have a normal relationship with another human, if they can love and be loved normally, if they, you know, how you raise your children. Like I raise my children as a victim of violent crime. I suspect everybody. I see a molester or a killer behind every tree.

You know what I went through when the children just tried to go to scout camp, right? That said, two years old. We think the victim, one of them anyway, was two years old. Will they have a memory of getting raped by this perv allegedly? It won't be a clear memory the way it would be if they were older, Nancy,

but you're right. It will definitely affect them. It will be there in their unconscious if they don't actually have images, and it will affect them for the rest of their life. And I want to add that the reason that this man is taking these pictures of himself, of using this little girl, is not just because he wants to exchange it but there is no doubt in my mind that he keeps looking at it over and over again because he enjoys it this is the only way that he could get real sexual pleasure he won't stop there's no doubt he has done this before that other children have suffered and he would have continued if he didn't think that he was getting away with something

and got caught on the dark web. You know, to John Pizzoro, about this vault, this, how does he say it? A private photo vault app to hide the photos. That shows me he didn't delete them. He actually downloaded and got this app the same way a lot of us would get various apps, you know, like Prime Video app, Netflix app, you name it app. He had to download this private vault app for photos and

then hide the child porn in it. And I just want to think about this Karen Stark. I have memories at age two for sure. I have distinct memories that can date back to age two and they're very clear. I remember them very well. So, and that was just a nondescript image, a memory. So, I find it difficult to believe that this child, and I'm sure there are others, allegedly, I believe the child will have a distinct memory of being raped by the preacher. John Pizzoro, what is this app? I'm very intrigued by a private photo vault app. So all these offenders never get rid of their photos. They hold on to them again for sexual gratification over and over again to relive that experience.

So a vault app basically will look like a calculator so you know if you see two calculators on someone's phone it's not because they love math it's because that there's another way for them to hold that information so that's where people will download that because again they're hiding it so every activity he's taken from from going to the dark web to actually looking at ways to hold that information I'm sure you'll find even more digital devices that he stored it and held it from SD cards anything he can do to hold that information so he can access it anytime he wants. A deacon for the church says, I keep thinking this is a really bad dream.

And adding, we are no longer associated with it. Well, I guess they're not. Guys, we are talking about a Baptist minister now charged with child pornography and child sex offenses. To Jordan Litwiller, joining us, reporter, anchor, WWSB, that's ABC7 News. He's also at MySonCoast.com. Jordan, if you know the answer, don't say it, but do you know who the alleged victims are? So we haven't been able to confirm who the alleged victims are, given the age and the nature of the crimes. The witness list on the Manatee County Clerk's Office is completely redacted, so none of that information is out there the probable cause

affidavit as well redacts all the names and anybody else who has been interviewed regarding this case okay good i'm just thinking that through because isn't it true of course he has minor children i don't know if they're the victims or not but when you look at the background of these child porn images and videos he shot of himself raping children, allegedly, and other acts. You can tell from the background where the incident took place, like, is it at his home, which would indicate as one of his own children, maybe, but we also know, and correct me if I'm wrong, you're the expert, weren't there multiple cameras found in and around the church? And isn't the church where he preached associated with a Christian school for children?

Yeah, that's correct. That was one of the concerns that the Manatee County Sheriff's Office voiced in their initial press conference. There is a school right by the church. And at the time of the arrest, the school or at the time of the press conference, rather, school wasn't in session. So all of the cameras were just found in his church office and at his residence. And going back to what you said about the alleged abuse happening in his house, the probable cause affidavit did confirm that the pictures, they cross-referenced the pictures and the bedsheets in the pictures with the bedsheets in his master bedroom. And they did confirm that they were the same blue bedsheets. So that does lead you to believe that the abuse did happen in his master bedroom. Guys, I've got to hand it to Coinbase, who has just helped the Manatee County Sheriff's Office take an alleged child predator from behind the pulpit and off the streets.

That's a whole nother can of worms. Let me throw this out there to Stacey Honowitz, veteran, sex crimes and child abuse prosecutor and author of My Privates Are Private, Genius With a Penis, Don't Touch, The Bully at School is Really Uncool. She's at StaceyHonowitz.com. Stacy, this is a whole plethora, a peddor's box, so to speak, of potential victims, because we now know that there are multiple secret cameras placed in and around the church, and I guess the school. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, quite often in these types of cases, that's what you see. We've got the cameras, we've got many victims, and now you have to go through the arduous task of trying to figure out who those victims are. I mean, just because it happened in his bedroom, that's a great thing that they're able to narrow that down, the bed sheets and

everything like that. But now we have to figure out if it's not his own kids, who was brought to his house? As a pastor, did he have people over? Did he have groups? But you are starting to narrow it down. But this becomes a very large task for law enforcement to try to figure out how many victims and who the victims are. It's not a surprise, Nancy. I wish I could tell you that this is a one-time offshoot happening. We see this more and more. And yes, we have to give a big shout out to Coinbase for turning this in.

In the old days, it was Walgreens and any place you took your film to be developed. If they saw photographs and they reported it to law enforcement. Now we're so advanced with technology and with all these horrific websites and the dark web that we have to try to figure out ways to be able to get these guys off. This is definitely a great start. And we do have to

give them kudos for turning in this information because now you're going to see just what this person was all about. Again, to all of your other guests that have been talking, you know, in prosecuting these cases, these guys are master manipulators. So putting aside the looking and viewing child porn in an effort to get kids, ones that are older the age of two, because at two they can't speak, they're not going to be able to fight back, they're not going to be able to say, leave me alone. The constant education of trying to educate kids older about grooming tactics and getting too close. And just because it's a priest or just because it's someone who you trust doesn't mean that you actually can trust them. Because in most cases, the likelihood of seeing the suspect is the person that you did

trust the most. John Pizzoro joining us, Raven CEO. John, I've got premeditation up the tailpipe. I think you know what that means. Because not only do we have him downloading a super secret photo vault app, he tried to outsmart everyone by paying for child porn via cryptocurrency. I wouldn't even, as if I have time to look at my husband's bank account, never. It wouldn't even dawn on me to try to find out if David is making secret purchases on a cryptocurrency account. That would not, okay, now that I've thought about it, I'm going to go look for cryptocurrency. But that said, this is premeditation out the yin yang yeah consciousness of guilt he knew what he was doing

to start with i mean he was taking every parameter look anytime you go on the dark web you're trying to hide your ip address you're doing cryptocurrency you're trying to hide your bank information. So everything the vault app He's trying to hide what he actually has so he's taking steps to make sure that he doesn't get caught and Generally speaking. I mean lucky I know he had said like the unquote it was because I had adult porn There's free porn sites. So why that doesn't make sense, right? So and most likely if you are on tour and you're using cryptocurrency to purchase something, it's illegal. Investigators are still working the case against Jonathan Elwing and prosecutors say they could go for the death penalty under a Florida law, which allows the death penalty sentence for sexual battery of a child under the age of 12. In Florida, juries only need eight of 12 jurors

to agree on the death penalty, as opposed to unanimous juries in other parts of the country. Jordan Litwiller joining us, investigative reporter and anchor, WWSB ABC7. Jordan, have you ever been to the zoo? I have, yes.

Okay, have you been to the snake house? I have, I'm not a big fan of snakes, but I have been there. I hate them. But you notice that they're always behind glass, so some idiot doesn't try to reach out and grab one. That's how I feel every time I look at this guy at the pulpit preaching. It's like the snake house. I am looking at it, but it also makes me sick looking at him. The sound we're playing, the video of him preaching, gives all Christians, all of us

struggling Christians, a black eye. But what about his family? What are they enduring? Listen. The former pastor's wife, Crystal, has been devastated by the charges. Manatee County Sheriff's Office Information Officer Randy Warren tells the Daily Mail, I don't know how much she may be suspected something was wrong, but everyone involved here has said how much she was surprised and devastated. Warren also says, with everything we've collected in the search for additional images, we're going to have a final number of up to 25 charges. We've got production of child pornography, capital sexual battery, and lewd and lascivious molestation. I mean, the reality is, Stacey Honowitz, very briefly, every time you transmit or send a child porn image, that's another felony.

Every time you transmit it, every time you download it, much less create it, as this guy's accused of doing. So it could very well be more than 25 charges if they want to parse it that way. Correct. Each one is its own count. Anytime, if you have 15 pictures and you're possessing 15 pictures of child porn, it could be 15 counts. If you're transmitting it, transmit it 15 times, just like you said. Each one is its own individual count. Anna Sonoda joining us, child sex abuse grooming expert and author of Duck, Duck, Groom. You can't let your guard down as a parent. You can't let your guard down if it's the pastor or the youth minister or the guy selling donuts at Krispy Kreme or the grocery store checkout guy that gives your children a set of crayons every time you come there.

You can't let your guard down. And this guy proves it. Well, Nancy, it's easy to get caught up in our fear and our worry about everybody because, let's be honest, sexual predators are everywhere. I recommend that we show up and that we look up and we're observing the individuals who are coming in contact with our kids. That churches who talk and denominations who talk about the potential for child sexual abuse are less likely to have instances of child sexual abuse. Are there programs to train the leadership within your church? Are there programs to educate parents? What about educating kids on an age-appropriate level about what grooming and child sexual

abuse might look like? Every individual within a church setting should be co-teaching and co-leading. There is no reason for an individual to be alone with a minor within a religious context. Karen, start very quickly. A lot of speculation. Did the wife know? I don't know if she knew or not or suspected. If she did suspect or did know,

rot in hell, woman. If she didn't know, it could be because he so masterfully hid his acts. He hid it from a whole congregation. So, you know, when you love someone, you very often have on blinders, you don't see telltale signs. And that happens a lot. And you hear a lot where the wife is saying, I would never have known. And all of it is intentional. This monster made sure that he had this kind of job, Nancy. This is what he wanted. So he could hide behind it.

He had a family. I'm not surprised, I'm sure. None of your guests are surprised that he looked like he was somebody trustworthy and of great character because he was hiding masterfully a monster. And Jordan Litwiller, I've got so many more questions for you. Jordan, joining us from WWSB. Did you tell me earlier that this guy came from Hillsong, the very troubled congregation? Yeah, it did look like that was in his history. I think as an associate pastor there, I believe maybe that was his second church that he was at after graduating from a Baptist university in 2004.

Wow. I believe there will be more charges and we will all meet again as it relates to former pastor, now child porn defendant, Jonathan Edward Elwing. But if you have had contact with this guy, it's very important. If you know or think you know any information regarding this case, even a potential witness or victim, please call Manatee County Crime Stoppers 866-634-8477. We can only stop child predators if we can catch them. Thank you to our guests for being with us. Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye, friend.

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