Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - High profile lawyer Tex McIver GUILTY in gorgeous exec/wife murder; sneaky fertility doc secretly uses OWN sperm with countless women

Episode Date: April 24, 2018

Tex McIver is likely to spend the rest of his life in prison for fatally shooting his wealthy wife, Diane McIver. Nancy Grace looks at the jury's guilty verdict in the trial of the prominent Atlanta lawyer. Her expert guests include New York psychiatrist Dr Judith Joseph, private investigator Vincent Hill, Atlanta juvenile judge Ashley Willcott, and investigator reporter Art Harris. Grace also digs into the case of a fertility doctor who allegedly inseminated his own sperm into unsuspecting patients, resulting in as many as 22 children fathered by the doctor. Reporter Jennifer Dzikowski joins Nancy. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. A high school girl, straight A's, a hockey star, a lacrosse star, is found brutally murdered and buried in a shallow grave at a local park, Lincoln Park. Her boyfriend is soon identified and he's convicted of the murder. But now, after a high-profile podcast called Serial insists that he's innocent, is he getting a new trial and set to walk to add insult to injury? The victim, little Hay, Hay Lee's family cannot speak English. They and she have no voice. Well, you know what? They're getting one. They're getting a voice. Lady Justice, are you listening? A&E, Thursday night, 11 p.m. We

want justice for Hay Lee. And that means to many court watchers that her killer Adnan Syed stays behind bars. Thursday night 11 p.m. A&E Grace versus Abrams. Please join us. Crime stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph channel 132. That jury room was divided. Those for murder conviction, those against. Jurors revealed a compromise that helped them bring the case to an end. They asked this question, why was Tex MacGyver's finger on the trigger of his gun while he was asleep with his wife nearby?

It was not an accident. His hand was on the trigger. Guns just don't go off. Prosecutors say MacGyver was having money troubles and shot his wife, Diane. MacGyver has always said it was an accident. You shot your wife in the back. A juror who sat in the box says, pronounces, announces, quote, he's going to jail. I'm talking about a juror on the high-profile case of a wealthy lawyer who, quote, accidentally shoots his wife in the back while driving down a dark highway.

I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Tex McIver, high-profile lawyer Claude Tex McIver, just found guilty of felony murder and other charges, and it ends a story that all begins with the fatal shooting of his wife, a beautiful and highly successful wife, Diane. Now, this charge carries a mandatory life sentence. The jury acquitted Tex McIver on intentional or malice murder, which would have meant the killing, of course, was premeditated. But the high-profile lawyer guilty of four lesser charges, including aggravated assault, possession of a firearm, witness influencing,

and because a death occurred during the commission of that felony, aggravated assault. That means a felony murder charge. Joining me right now, Crime Stories investigative reporter and Emmy Award winning journalist, Art Harris, who has been at the courthouse. First of all, let me get something straight, Art. First and foremost, is it true my former protege, Clint Rucker, who tried the case for the state, stole my muddy water? Is it true, Art? Nancy, I saw you use that, and he held up a mason jar, shook it up with muddy creek water, and told the jury by the time it settles and I finish my argument, that it will be as clear as the truth that he's guilty of murder.

And when he went into that, I'm... I am texting Mr. Rucker right now, but apparently it worked. Tell me the whole thing, Art. Start at the beginning on the other he uh he made a case for a man who was obsessed with with money and that greed took a back seat grief took a back seat to greed and and here was a guy who shot his wife in the back coming off of of a downtown exit at night it was an annual he did not take the exit so the question was how was he going to overcome the reasonable doubt that this was

uh... a murder and that text had his gun he requested it uh... to have it in his lap because they're going to quote bad quote, bad part of town, and suddenly it goes off. And that's when they race to the emergency room at Emory Hospital, and he's ushered in. And a series of missteps by Tex MacGyver, whether they were planned or stupid, conspire to make him look guilty. He tells numerous lies about what happened the driver of the car art harris art harris listen i know you well enough to know what you mean by that the facts conspired to make mciver look guilty okay that sounds to me like what you're saying is he's not really guilty,

but appearances, perception became reality, and he was found guilty. Also with me, in addition to Art Harris, is private investigator Vince Hill. Guys, we're bringing you the very latest from the courthouse. Tex McIver has been found guilty in the murder of his wife, Diane Vincent. What do you say to Art Harris's phraseology that the facts conspire to make McIver look guilty? And I got to tell you something, Vincent. I wasn't completely convinced myself, believe it or not, because the wife, when she got in the hospital and was asked, did your husband do this on purpose? On purpose, she got in the hospital and was said asked did your husband do

this on purpose on purpose she said no it was an accident so tell me vincent hill how was this guy found guilty well nancy i wasn't convinced just like you and i think what it came down to is the jury couldn't convict on this malice murder which would have had to prove intent and the prosecution went on to say it was about money and possible affairs but with felony murder you don't need the intent that element is thrown out you just have to prove that someone died during the commission of a felony and since tex was charged with the aggravated assault which is a felony here in georgia the felony aggravated assault led to her death therefore they convicted on the felony murder without the intent. Okay.

FYI, Ashley Wilcott, Atlanta juvenile judge and founder of ChildCrimeWatch.com. FYI, aggravated assault when you shoot somebody with a firearm, that is a felony in every jurisdiction in our country. That's right. When it requires intent. So this is a fascinating case. I think that it sets it up for some appeal grounds or at least arguments on appeal because the jury says, okay, no intent for murder. So we're not going to convict on murder, but we are going to convict on felony murder,

which does not require the intent. But we're also going to convict on the aggravated assault, which is the felony underlying the murder. So some has intent, some doesn't, if you want to argue that for appeal purposes. I think it was the right verdict, but I'm just saying. You know, a lot of people argue on appeal, Ashley, that the aggravated assault and the, this may be too inside baseball, the ag assault and the death merge, and you cannot use ag assault as an underlying felony. It has to be an independent felony, like a rape or a burglary. That's the felony that underlies felony murder. You got to have a felony to have a felony that's right with me dr judith joseph new york psychiatrist you can find her at www.judithjosephmd.com and author of a brand new book coming out in august i met dr judith at Oz, Dr. Oz in New York, and was totally knocked out by her. Dr. Judith,

I think one of the things that lent to the guilty verdict is the way he acted, Tex McIver, after the death. He had a huge consignment sale within a couple of months, got rid of everything belonging to his wife, raised a bunch of money, asked people to change their stories. And very important, what happened after the incident, Diane McIver's longtime friend and mentor, Bill Corey, who I assume started Corey Limousine, a huge enterprise where she had risen through the ranks, appeared at a news conference after the verdict with prosecutors. Her longtime mentor and friend stood with the prosecutors on the courthouse steps after the verdict and said, quote, they stood up for Diane.

Now, Dr. Judith Joseph, when friends and family side with the prosecution, that tells me that they agree with the prosecution. This guy wasn't coming out sobbing into his fist because Tex McIver was found guilty. You know what I mean, Judith? You know, Nancy, I think what's telling is you heard it from the wife's mouth. You heard her say, no, he did it by mistake. And I think what people don't realize is that one in three U.S. women are victims of abuse. They're victims of verbal abuse, emotional abuse, harassment, physical abuse, one in three. Who knows what this poor woman went through? And again, I did not treat them. I did not know them.

But on her deathbed, she was still defending her husband. That to me is the most shocking part of what you said. You know, sociopaths, that's a range. There's a wide range of sociopathy. You have, you know, the terrible boyfriends, the ones who stalk, and then you have the psychopaths, the calculating serial murderers. And somewhere along the line, I believe this man exhibited signs of sociopathy, the lying, the not taking responsibility for his actions, the impulsivity, the hotheadedness. There are so many holes in his story. So who knows what she went through in this marriage? However, the fact that the family eventually took her side and defended her shows that there was something going on that we did not know about, that the public does not

know about, and only those close to the family members knew. Judith, what an insight. What an insight. Before I throw you to a jailhouse interview, I really want you to hear real quickly. Art Harris, did I hear Vincent Hill correctly? Did I hear him say the word affair? Well, he played on the notion of McIver's having a possible affair with his massage therapist, which turned out not to be true, but was never fully dispelled. Wait, wait, wait. Was she connected to the fur coat?

No, she wore the boots that the prosecutor said Diane had given her. I'm getting news in here from Jackie Howard, who is sashaying around as if she's wearing a fur coat. Oh, she was the masseuse turned up and his dead wife's favorite boots right after her death. Yes, that's it. But guess what, Nancy? The boots were too big.

They were too big. And somebody said, hey, if the boots don't fit, you must acquit. And so she was maybe having a gift. She had a gift, but they were not Diane's boots because they were the wrong size. In any case, none of those nuggets were dispelled. Art, Art, Art, no. Those boots were Diane's because they were very unique boots. You don't just find them anywhere.

And I don't know what has gotten into you, Art Harris. You're the, quote, Emmy Award-winning journalist, and you keep acting like there wasn't enough evidence to convict. Listen, I was on the fence. I really expected them to come back with influencing a witness.

I did not expect... After Rucker made that argument, though, he pulled a Nancy Grace and wove this amazing tale of him being an octopus who sprayed ink to cover his escape and his manipulations. And the doctor is right. His nickname was The Fixer because he was a lawyer and high-ranking Republican Party member who got things done quietly behind the scenes. He was used to getting his way, and he could not fix his own fate.

I don't really know anything that you just said, Art Harris, but I didn't have to weave a picture of the truth. Hello, it spoke for itself. I'm going to get you, Art Harris. But first, take a listen to this jailhouse interview with our friend Mark Winnie. Listen to this And as I learned in the scouts, it's your obligation to protect people around you and that's what I was doing that night That's what I've done other times and sometimes that's a weapon. Sometimes it's martial arts. It's whatever we We need but you've got guns are not my thing.

You led a very successful life, partner and a major law firm, and now at age 74, you're in a jam in Fulton County. Well, I hope to be out soon, but the reality is I just miss my wife so much. It was the perfect marriage. It really was. And I just, every day I reach for her in the morning when I wake up. I just, anyway, I've got to rely upon my faith. Art Harris, Crime Stories, contributing reporter, Marshall Arts. Tex McIver's what? How old is this guy? Marshall Arts, my foot. This guy is not kung fu on anybody.

Marshall Arts. Boy, he's 75. I mean, right there, that's the biggest line of BS I've ever heard. I want you to take a listen now as the jury foreperson reads the verdict. ...to publish the verdict, which means read the verdict into the record. On count one, murder. We find the defendant not guilty. On count two, felony murder, we find the defendant guilty of felony murder.

On count three, aggravated assault, we find the defendant guilty. On count four, possession of a firearm during the commission of a felony, we find the defendant guilty. On count five, influencing a witness, we find the defendant guilty. On count five, influencing a witness, we find the defendant guilty. Thank you, jury. 20, you can take a seat. Deputy Murphy, if you would please give the verdict form to Mr. Rutter and then to Mr. Harvey. Guys, that was a jury reading out the verdict.

The jury of seven women and five men deliberated over 29 hours it took them five days before they came down with a verdict they heard from 78 witnesses and the case lasted six weeks of testimony for a minute there they said they were deadlocked vincent hill joining me private investigator was in the courtroom when that went down. You know, Vincent, when I heard they were deadlocked, I thought it was all she wrote. I thought that the judge would dynamite them, in other words, give them the Allen charge, and they'd come back, you know, dug in. But they didn't.

They came back with a verdict. That, of course, is going to be a grounds for appeal. The defense is going to say the judge forced them into the decision. What did the jury look like? Did they look like they were getting along? Did they look like they were arguing? Did they sit in clumps? Did they sit together?

Were they jovial with each other when they would come in from breaks? I mean, what was your take on the jury, Vincent Hill? Yeah, they were jovial up until yesterday, Nancy, when they were deadlocked. And the judge told them basically to go back and come to a verdict. I mean, the look on their face was just like, you've got to be kidding me. We've been here for seven weeks. Why is this not over? And keep in mind, in O.J. Simpson and all the evidence, the physical evidence that the prosecution had, that deliberation only took four hours.

This was five-plus days of deliberation. So the jury was so frustrated yesterday, Nancy. I believe it, too. Dr. Judith Joseph, New York psychiatrist, at JudithJosephMD.com. Judith, the jury really took it in, those seven women on the jury, when they found out Tex McIver had a big boutique. We call it a yard sale, okay? But theirs was a consignment sale in a fancy boutique

and made about $300,000. Fur coats, designer clothing, boots, handbags, lots of jewelry. I think that rubbed the jury the wrong way, Dr. Judith. I absolutely agree, and I'm sorry. I overstuffed when I was just talking, but I think that the fact that the deliberation took so long has to do most likely with his skills. Let's not forget, this is a person who knows how to work the system. And I've never met him, I've never treated him, but from the facts and what I've read, he had this grandiose sense of self, talking about martial

arts, bragging about the way he could maneuver the system, and then being so brazen after the death, wearing, buying expensive things. These are not the actions of someone who is grieving. And this probably angered the family members who, if they had any nugget of doubt, that was wiped out based on the behaviors after her passing. So remember, these people are very selfish. Sociopathy has a lot to do with people who lie. They blame others. They victimize themselves all the while they're planning to victimize another person. So they play as if they're the victim.

They were the ones that were done wrong. However, they actually end up victimizing others. So let's keep that in mind. To Ashley Wilcott, Atlanta juvenile judge, of childcrimewatch.com ashley we have been watching this case i've especially been watching it because clint rucker trained under me who is now the lead prosecutor on the tex mciver case and i i worked with him for many, many years and feel very close to him. And I'm proud of him, whether he won or lost, getting through the Tex McIver case. On the other side, for a short while, was a guy I looked up to a lot.

His name had been Judge Bill Hill. And I'll tell you how I know Bill, Ashley. When I was prosecuting, every murder conviction goes up. All convictions go up on appeal, but murder convictions go up on appeal. And the state's attorney general's office always writes an amicus curia brief, a friend of the court, to help support and hold the conviction. They're not asked to do it, but they do it on every murder conviction in the state of Georgia. Well, Bill Hill somehow landed in with me and would write and argue some of them. He didn't argue it. I argued it.

But he would write some very difficult amicus curia briefs. I would write my own, and he would write a supporting brief, and that's how I met him. The moment I met him, oh, I also met him in federal court because he was trying to hold a conviction on a case that later got reversed that was tried before I became a prosecutor. That's when I first met him, and his grasp of the facts and the law was so impressive. I can still remember coming back to the district attorney, the elected DA, and saying, you know, this guy Bill Hill in the AG's office, he is sharp. He went on to be a judge, and then he went into private practice, and for a little while represented Tex McIver. So I've been watching it from both sides of the fence. Ashley, a lot of times, juries render verdicts on emotion.

Something happens during the trial that just strikes them the wrong way. And I'll tell you another pivotal moment, and it had nothing to do with the murder. When they brought in, the state brought in, Tex McIver's arsenal of weapons, 40-plus long guns, revolvers, you name it. I mean, it was staggering. All of his weapons and ammo he kept, and then his wife died of a gunshot wound. That just doesn't make a good impression, Ashley. No, it doesn't. Not only that, Nancy, but think about every shred of evidence that the prosecution had presented well also leads and highlights his arrogance. Tex MacGyver is a very

powerful man in Atlanta, Georgia. He was with a big firm. He was a part of the Republican Party. He did have wealth. And so he perceived his power in such a way and flaunted it and exercised it. That really was a real arrogance. And I do not think that that is something the jury liked either. I agree. Another thing is when you have a jury in the box, you have to remember that them, like many of us on the panel right now came from, I mean, I came, you know, Ash, from a red dirt road with a red water coming out of the faucet from a well my grandfather dug. and fur coats and expensive jewelry. And then not just that, but then the arrogance that goes with it. Nobody likes that. Nobody likes that. It makes them dislike the person deep down.

Especially when you take the next step, follow the money. Then you hear financial problems, financial problems. Follow that money. You you hear financial problems, financial problems. Follow that money. You put those two together. You almost have a surefire way to convince a jury, hey, this is good evidence that he did this, that he killed his wife. was never convinced about Tex McIver having an affair and that didn't mean anything to me one way or the other because it was a very strong evidence but the money problems how could these two people with all that money have a money problem I can tell you this after losing my dad recently after losing my fiance to murder after laying up in the hospital with John David with a head injury for four days straight if money is is your problem, you don't have a problem, okay? How could these two people with all that money have a money problem? Nancy, here you have a guy whose income has been cut in half at his law firm.

He's getting up in age, so he's only making about $200,000 a year. And his wife has about $7 million in her estate. Alan, can you stop art okay art stop that train you said he was now high you know kind of semi-retired or emeritus in his law firm of counsel and his salary was cut in half pray tell what was his reduced salary. It was about $200,000, Nancy, but it wasn't enough. $200,000? A quarter of a million dollars? Nancy, he had a farm in Putnam County. It cost $20,000 a month to run to keep up his image of being Mr. Tex with the horses

and this acreage. And so he was worried because he had to sign his farm over to his wife to get a loan from her. She held the title of the farm, and actually her estate could possibly foreclose if he didn't start making payments. And that was a bone of contention between them. Rucker argued that this was a woman who was very savvy about her money, and that their financial affairs were supposed to be separate, but she kept fronting him to carry his load. And that's what he argued was the imbalance of power in the marriage, and Tex had to do something to take care of that and would be much better off if she was dead than alive. Ashley, okay, I did not know that because I can remember when I crashed my car during a murder investigation and nobody was hurt.

The other person only had their button fall off their pants. My now husband gave me his old car, okay, and I would pay him back whenever I'd spare change. I'd throw it on the kitchen counter and go, there, there's your payment for this month. But this woman, Ashley, she's no dummy. She had him sign a document, and she was fronting him the money on the farm.

That was a very formal loan. Did you just hear that? Uh-uh. That one thing convinces me they had a money problem between them. Exactly. Not only that, to me what it screams is she doesn't trust this man. I see this as a judge on the bench all the time. People do those steps when they do not trust their partner. For those of you just joining us,

a major verdict has just been handed down by a jury of 12 who went through six weeks of evidence and testimony in the case of a very high profile lawyer rolling in money and his even more successful wife, Diane McIver. Now, Diane McIver's business, Vincent Hill, private investigator, her business was that she led the Corey Limousine Enterprise, which is all over the country. I mean, this was a very successful businesswoman, correct? That is correct, Nancy. I think the prosecution said she was worth about $7.5

million. Okay, let me understand something one more time. Now, Art Harris, you obviously are defense-oriented in this case. I'm a little shocked. Guys, just so you know, Art and I have an inside deal. His half-sister, my dear friend Meg meg prosecuted with me in the da's office so art art harris tell me one more time in regular people talk air art don't go off in your journalistic jargon what was it you were telling me he and there's a cure for owning a $20,000 a month ranch. It's called sell it, okay, if you cannot afford it. So, Art Harris, tell me, in regular people talk, in a nutshell, what was the deal Diane struck with her husband Tex McIver in order for him to keep the ranch?

He had a farm that cost about $20,000 to maintain, and she advanced him a chunk of money, up to a half million dollars to keep it running, but got a signed document in return. So she ultimately would own the farm if he didn't pay her back. Oh, my. She did not trust him as far as she could throw him. Oh, dear Lord. Okay. All right i i know what that means but on by all appearances outwardly they were very happy and i'm telling you that yard sale that he had at that fancy boutique of all of her designer clothes i mean he couldn't get rid of her stuff fast enough you know every day every day I go by and I touch my fiance's baseball. He was on baseball scholarship. And I look at my dad, what my dad's clothes. In fact,

a lot of times I travel with my dad's shirt and wear it when I'm out of town because I miss him so much. He couldn't unload her stuff fast enough. You know, Art Harris, you were in the courtroom. What do you think was the turning point in the trial? Nancy, the DA had to explain how this guy, holding a gun, a.38 revolver in his lap, and apparently going to sleep, how he could possibly shoot it and deliberately mean to kill her. Well, that has not been established,

but the jury asked to go sit in the Ford Expedition and sit in the back seat where Tex had been sitting and purportedly holding the gun in his lap and look at the actual trajectory through the seat that was recreated by this little rod they had and actually asked to hold the gun as well. So suddenly you have these jurors going to the car and holding the gun, and it sounded like they figured, well, you know what, this guy could have, he would have had to have aimed it, or he just wasn't sitting on his lap, didn't go off.

As her former boss said, a.38 just don't fire by itself. And so that, the DA thought, was the turning point, that they were able to visualize that it was possible to shoot her. But you might have to use a little bit of will and planning to do it in the back seat, that it didn't, you know, he didn't hit a bump. 38 has about, what, 20 pounds, Vince would know better, 20 pounds of trigger pull pressure. Are you telling me that you got to hold the gun?

Ashley Wilcott, juvenile judge, you've tried a lot of cases, founder of childcrimewatch.com, Ashley, trigger pull and the terms Art is using means how hard you have to pull on the trigger to open it. You know, you can compare it to open a jar. When you're opening a jar, you've opened 20 times. It's easy. Sometimes the first time you open it, you've got to beat it on the counter. You've got to ask other people to help you. You've got to twist and turn. Same thing with a trigger pull. Some guns have a light pull. Some have pounds and pounds of pull. They wanted to see that gun to see if he was really asleep and it had a hard trigger pull.

How could that have been an accident? How would he pull it in his sleep? That's right. That's a significant piece of evidence for them to actually hold the gun because the other piece is, you know, he argued, oh, they went over a bump when he was asleep and it went off. You're right. By actually feeling that, holding it in their hand, that's what makes cases. Think about OJ Simpson and the glove not fitting. When they can visualize, touch, feel these things, that makes a huge impact on a jury understanding whether or not a story like Tex McIver told is plausible or not. As a matter of fact, Art,

Ashley, you're absolutely right. Take a listen to what a juror, Lakeisha Boyd, said. What we do know is that she's no longer here with us and that we have to give justice and justice was served and we was able to come up with you you you shot your wife in the back. A gun just don't go off so we didn't think that it was accidental. Well there you hear it in the words from the mouth of a juror, Lakeisha Boyd, a gun doesn't just, quote, go off. Lakeisha, I could not agree with you more. And last, I want to go to my colleague and friend, Clint Rucker, the lead attorney on the Tex McIver prosecution, who never gave up and never gave in and, P.S., stole all my bag of tricks.

Listen to Clint. This was a circumstantial case, Clint. What was it that was pivotal for them that they zeroed in on? Well, you know, what they expressed to me was that the issue of intent provided some challenges for them, and it was because of the language in the charge. What they expressed to me is that the charge itself was a little confusing for them, a little hard to understand. It's written in

legalese and so it took them a while to kind of dissect the actual language of the charge and to me that is what I took that they spent the most amount of time. Okay guys, this is what we know tex mcgyver has been found guilty high profile lawyer in the shooting death of his gorgeous and successful wife diane let this be a lesson to us all the love of money the root of all evil tex mcgyver headed jail. We now head from that Atlanta courtroom across the country to Indiana, where a shocking decision has been made. No jail time for an Indiana fertility doctor who lies about using his own sperm to inseminate his lady patients what no jail time so all these women who are desperate to have a family they want a baby so badly they do

it all they shoot themselves up with all those chemicals and hormones like elizabeth edwards did who later passed away with cancer finally they go the artificial insemination route and they find they say they want a young college student or a medical intern or a resident and this doc says oh yeah i can do that this dirty old man is using his own sperm and inseminating all these women with his own sperm okay help me out with me from a site I'm a big fan of, heavy.com. With me is heavy.com reporter Jennifer Tsikowski. Jennifer, please tell me I'm wrong.

I wish you were. I truly wish you were. And I'm saying this as someone, you know, not every woman is blessed, obviously, to be able to conceive children on their own. I'm a person, I was married later in life than many, but before I met my husband, the thought of going to a fertility doctor myself to have a baby on my own, it did admittedly, but briefly crossed my mind. And, you know, I'm not sure what future holds but a fertility clinic could be in our future i can tell you one thing if i had gone when i was single i would have hands down wanted the donor to be anonymous you're not kidding that is just a so creepy and he would

apparently bring the ladies in and then drape them from the waist down. They couldn't see anything that he was doing. You know what? I don't want to know what he was doing. What is he like go into the closet with a video of white hot nurses and come out with a cup full of sperm? I mean, I'm just completely grossed out by this whole thing, but being grossed out is not the whole story. Start it off from the get-go Jennifer yeah I mean it's disgusting so the way it all started out Nancy in 2014 a woman named Jacoba Ballard she knew that she was a donor a donor baby and she became curious about her family history and she thought she'd start a search in the case to find out if she had any siblings. She took a DNA test from 23andMe and that's a biotech company that

uses saliva samples to help determine ancestry, identify both close and distant relatives, and also things like health risks and physical traits so Jacoba Ballard's results shows showed that she had seven half siblings which is when she and two others then you're like an only child and you just start playing around with whatever ancestry.com or me plus 23 right name of it it's something to do with 23. And all of a sudden, bam, you find out you've got seven brothers or sisters. Like, okay, surprise. That'll wake you up in the morning.

So Jennifer Zagowski joining me from heavy.com. What happens then? Okay, so then she got together with two others and assembled a family tree, and that's when they came to find out that each of their mothers had all been Donald Klein's patients. So that's when the red flags started going up. Jacoba and a group of the half-siblings, they met with Dr. Klein, and she said that he had told them all conflicting stories, but then did eventually admit he had donated sperm about 50 times to help

unknowing patients who were desperate for children. Then Jacoba Ballard, along with women whose DNA tests determined that she was a half-sister of hers, they filed complaints with the Indiana Attorney General's office. Another woman, Julie Harmon, she had always thought that she had a biological connection with her father. Years earlier, though, she had a blood test, and it showed that her actual blood type indicated she wasn't the child of both of her parents. But she never followed up on that test. Years later is when she saw a news story about Donald Klein, and that news story featured Jacoba Ballard.

After the show, she said she just knew something was wrong. She was right. She ended up having a DNA test done, and she was linked to Donald Klein with an accuracy of over 99%. So as Julie Harmon put it, she had literally 35 years ripped away from her. She lost her entire identity to this. And DNA tests showed Dr. Klein is very likely the biological father of as many as 20 children who were tested. That doesn't include the others that could still be out there. Julie Harmon, so if you can imagine,

most of the people who are linked to him after taking a test, they had no idea what they were getting themselves into. And in the end, Jacoba thought she'd get lucky and find a sibling or two, not almost two dozen of them, and who knows how many more. You know, I'm just trying to take the whole thing in. With me, Ashley Wolcott, Atlanta juvenile judge, founder of ChildCrimeWatch.com. Our new guest, Dr. Judith Joseph, New York psychiatrist, very well known. You can find her at JudithJosephMD.com with a new book coming out in August. And private investigator Vincent Hill.

To ask you, Wilcott, I mean, what we know is that former patients of this Indianapolis fertility doctor are angry that he avoided jail time for lying about using his own sperm to get dozens of women pregnant. After telling them the donors were anonymous, his name, Dr. Donald Klein, and he gets a one-year suspended sentence. He pled guilty to two counts of lying to investigators. That's obstruction of justice. No other charges were filed. And lawmakers say it's because a fertility doctor using his own sperm is not specifically against the law in Indiana. Hello. What about alternative charges such as criminal, gross criminal negligence or criminal conduct or criminal fraud.

What about that? Exactly, especially when it's not just that he told the mothers these are anonymous sperm donations. He also went two steps further. He said, number one, no more than three specimens are taken from each person so that a mother would think, oh, it's not going to be one father of 30 children. The second thing he told them was and the donors are medical residents. They're in med school. So I'm I'm flabbergasted, frankly, as a judge, that you don't see other criminal charges against him because of the length he went to to mislead all of these potential mothers. I'm just sick about it.

Charged with lying to investigators and then no jail time. It's really over the top. There are dozens of people who say that they are angry, upset, that they have lost their sense of identity. They're struggling with that. They now find out they've lost a whole lifetime with half siblings. It goes on and on and on. And he initially lied about it and then called the people accusing him, claiming they were committing slander on him. To Dr. Judith Joseph, New York psychiatrist, weigh in, Dr. Judith.

What about the arrogance? Maybe a God complex? Absolutely. And as a physician, as a medical doctor myself, you take the Hippocratic Oath. You are supposed to protect your patients. And, you know, these women, they are probably sitting in his office and crying to him, and he's sat with them, and he's heard their struggles. And IVF is painful.

So for him to do that after hearing these people's struggles and their emotional pain, there's got to be some element of sociopathy. And again, I haven't treated him. However, sociopaths lie on a range. And one thing that they have in common is that grandiosity, that God complex. They don't want to be the leader of a cult of two. They want to be the leader of a cult of many. And in this person's case, who knows how many children there were out there.

There could be hundreds. So absolutely likely a sociopath, a disregard for others, a lack of being able to put himself in people's shoes, this narcissism, this sense of entitlement. And they're very charming. They're highly manipulative. Who knows what the jurors heard? Who knows what they saw? He got off way too easy, in my opinion. I'm very, very distraught about the way this whole thing has gone down. Vincent Hill with the easy online DNA test now. It's hard to keep a secret like that. Yeah, Nancy, as far as I'm concerned, this guy committed sexual assault on a bunch of women without the physicality piece of it.

Yes, they were assuming they were getting an anonymous donor, but it wasn't him that they were thinking of. So when he did this in his twisted mind, he was sexually assaulting these women when he did that, and he knew exactly what he was doing. According to one of his daughters daughters he says that his only his Donald Klein's only remorse was being caught what about that Ashley Wilcott Ashley just texted me she had to go in okay stop all right Jennifer's kowski what about that I'm sorry can you you repeat just the last part? Here we go. I've got to go as well.

I'm sorry. This is Dr. Joseph. I have to go to the patient. Okay, bye, Dr. Judith. Thank you. Nice meeting you guys. Please let Judith go quickly. Take care.

We'll talk soon. Bye. Is everybody settled and ready? I'm ready. Great. Jennifer Zagowski with me, heavy.com. What about that? The one newly discovered daughter, Judy, Julie Harmon says, quote, his only remorse was being caught. I mean, that is, that's despicable. It's, it's disgusting. And and i agree you know in maybe in the eye of the indiana law

it wasn't a problem um you have to look at the ethical aspects of this and i agree he was sexually assaulting these women that is what it boils down to. And I cannot believe that there weren't any further charges. And Julie Harmon told the Chicago Tribune, now this was kind of something beautiful coming out of a terrible, horrifying story. She said that whenever she receives an online notification that a DNA test has identified yet another half-sibling. And who knows how often this is going to be happening and how many more there will be. She and two others who are linked to Donald Klein through DNA,

they check Facebook for mutual friends who can then explain the situation. Otherwise, one of the three will try to do it themselves. You know, it's... Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead, Jennifer. Okay, so what else that I was going to say, one of the mothers who thought that she was being inseminated by her own husband, what she said at sentencing, she said the least that she would have liked to have had for Dr. Klein was an ankle bracelet. I mean, come on, would that really be too much to ask Nancy? I agree with you, with me, Jennifer Sikowski from heavy.com. Take a listen to the biological children of this fertility doctor.

I don't even want to call him a doctor, as they speak out on WTHR Channel 13. It's devastating. It's changed my entire life. I've tried, I cry every day for the past two months. To know that a doctor took advantage of that situation is unimaginable. I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy. Never. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. you Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. This is an iHeart Podcast.