Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Holly Bobo murder trial begins; Murdered boy found in concrete

Episode Date: September 13, 2017

The long-delayed trial of the man accused of kidnapping and killing Holly Bobo in 2011 began with dramatic testimony by the dad, mom and brother of the murdered Tennessee college student. Reporter Shane Deitert and psycho analyst Dr. Bethany Marshall discuss the case and trial with Nancy Grace in this episode. Kansas City reporter Jessica McMaster and major crimes scene investigator Karen Smith also join Nancy to talk about a boy whose body was hidden in a cement wall after months of abuse that was allegedly ignored by social workers. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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when Holly disappeared from her home. The man charged in Holly Bobo's murder, he was a man who lived in a dark world of drugs. The defense, however, says Adams is not guilty, that the prosecutors needed someone to blame. But the most heartbreaking testimony came from Karen Bobo, Holly's mother. The panic, in fact, in Karen Bobo's voice, clearly audible in the 911 call. Please get everybody out of there. Okay, they're on their way, please. They're on their way.

I remember distinctly when Holly Bobo went missing. We covered it night after night after night, trying to help find her. Beautiful, beautiful young girl. Holly Bobo, the cousin of country music star Whitney Duncan, disappeared without a trace seemingly. But then her skull was found in the woods three years later. We had all hoped for a different outcome. I remember it vividly because the first thing I heard was, Holly Bobo's been found. And I couldn't believe it that after three years of us searching for her, publicizing for her, offering the tip line out there,

then within a second it was clarified her skull was found. And now the trial in the murder of Holly Bobo finally starts as the jury is hearing about a meth addict defendant who bragged, bragged about raping and shooting the gorgeous young 20-year-old nurse, before dumping her body in the woods. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. First, listen to what the prosecution says in opening statement. He took her. He raped her. He killed her. He discarded her. He covered it up. He bragged about it.

And he almost got away with it. He bragged about it. Zach Adams. He bragged about it. Zach Adams. He bragged about it. I couldn't have picked a prettier fish. It was fun. The world may never know what happened to Holly Bova. I couldn't have picked a prettier bench.

It was fun. The world may never know what happened to Holly Bobo. The first trial of one of Holly Bobo's accused killers has finally begun after the young nurse goes missing. And those jurors are hearing gut-wrenching claims of drugs, rape, and murder. I don't really understand the connection between these guys and Holly Bobo. She's like pure as the driven snow. How did these guys find her? Joining me, Shane Dieter, W-A-T-N, in Memphis, joining us with the latest and from LA, Dr. Bethany Marshall, renowned psychoanalyst joining us as well. To Shane Dietert. Shane, let's start at the beginning. You and I both

recall when Holly went missing. Tell me what happened. She was getting ready to go to school. She was in nursing school at the time and and she made it out to her car, and then from then she was last seen being led into the woods by a man in camouflage. Shane Dieter joining me from WATN there in Memphis. Shane, so she was at nursing school when she went, the day she went missing? She had been to classes or what what are you saying she was leaving her house at like 7 40 in the morning to go to nursing school subtle but important difference whether she was leaving the school the college and going to her

car in a parking lot or whether she was leaving her home to go somewhere. Very, very important difference. Thank you for clarifying that. So she gets in her car about 7.30, 7.45 a.m., and she leaves for school. When is she seen next? Did she make it to school? No, Nancy. She never made it out of the driveway. Pause, pause, right there, pause.

Sorry, Shane. I got to go to Dr. Bethany marshall our psychoanalyst joining us you know dr bethany i gotta ask you a lot of people may not think this is crazy but the thought that first thing in the morning somebody is out with felonious intent to rape and murder at 7 45 in the morning shane i hate to stop you in the middle of what you're saying but i just gotta get my head around that now you know bethany i was always a night owl until i had the children now i'm up about 5 5 30 every morning to get everything done right but to think that you step out of your house at 730 in the morning and somebody's waiting in the wings that early in the morning to grab you.

I mean, most people haven't even had a cup of coffee yet. What is that mindset? And just to layer in a few more frightening details, her mother had already gone to work that day. The mother calls her. She's still home studying. She's living at home with her parents. The brother is in the house. The brother is awakened by the sound of the dogs barking.

He walks out of the house. He sees his sister being led into the woods by a man in camouflage. He thinks nothing of it. he thinks it's his sister's boyfriend scott he goes back to bed then he goes out and he looks in the carport and he sees blood oh my stars the survivor guilt you see your sister being taken off into the woods and you think at a distance that it's her boyfriend oh my go back to bed oh that poor guy oh my stars oh I was reliving the details of this case last night I was I was reading it and and the story of the brother really really stuck with me how is he going to live with

himself for the rest of his life thinking that she was leaving the house with her boyfriend. And you asked about what would happen. Bethany, you just actually made me sick to my stomach. And I got to tell you why. We grew up, me, my brother and sister, very, very close. You know, our parents worked like dogs, dogs. You know, my dad on the railroad, my mom at a big can factory as their financial officer. So the three of us, very close. As a matter of fact, my brother and I talk now almost every day, especially since my dad passed away, you know, because my mom lives with me now. And my sister, as you know, I've told you this a million times. My sister's husband has had MS for 30 years. And I think about her all the time. He's been in a wheelchair for a really long time.

She's raised both of her children with him in a wheelchair. They've both gotten into Ivy League, just stellar schools. They've just worked so hard to make her proud. And last night, I was up half the night worried about my sister's husband. Okay? I mean, the bond between really close siblings is very, very deep. And to think, I'm actually getting chills right now, that he saw his sister being taken into the woods and went back to sleep thinking nothing was, okay, I'm sorry, I just went off on a tangent,

but I'm just thinking about that brother and what hell he's been living through. Okay, so he goes back to sleep. He comes in the garage. He finds blood. All right, then what happens? Well, so then imagine that he sees blood. I mean, how alarming is that? And we don't even know exactly what that scene was.

Was it a little bit of blood? Was it a lot of blood? He calls his mother, evidently, who says, you need to call 911. So they were on it. And thank god for the dogs nancy i mean they the dogs are the ones who who woke him up otherwise he wouldn't have seen her now the more very frightening part of this is that the guy who leads her off is wearing camouflage we know now because of the trial he was a meth addict and you asked because i'm a

bethany wait a minute jackie's waving at me in here hold on we actually have procured testimony from the brother great listen i walk out and i look to my left where they were knelt down under that window and there's a pool of blood in the garage there's a garage and there's a carport car Carport. Which one is it? It's a carport attached to the house. It's the one that you were lifting up that blind and peeking into, right? That's right. And you were seeing the silhouettes of your sister and somebody. Yes.

And there's a pool of blood. Yes, just below where they were knelt down. Shane Dieter, jump in. Nancy, at one point when this was all going down, her brother Clint was a suspect also. So he had to deal with that. People didn't believe his story. Oh, my stars. I can't even imagine to top it all off, he becomes a suspect.

Okay, I don't like it, but I understand why police thought maybe he killed her. I get it. I don't like it, but I know that I understand their thinking. Okay, Bethany, back to you. When you think of the totality of this crime, most homicides are intimate homicides by a lover or a family member. Most crimes occur within a quarter mile of the family home. So all the research, the data we know about crimes, you know, really comes to the foreground in this story.

But if we go back to the guy in camouflage leading her off into the woods, what we now know from the trial is that he's a very mentally compromised meth addict. We know that the details of the crime itself are horrific, and I know you'll get into that in a moment. But knowing the horrific details of the crime, I don't know if the listeners know yet, we know that the mindset of this guy was that he was probably high, obviously some severe perversion or sexual compulsion mixed with sort of homicidal intent. And I think the fact that he either took her out of the carport or out of the home suggests to me that he and his friends knew that this beautiful Holly Bobo was living in that house. And obviously they had been stalking her emotionally in some way, whether or not they knew her, maybe peeping

toms, looking in the window, watching her drive back and forth to school. She had become an object of fixation for at least the primary perp, if not all of them. So she was in their sights for a long, long time, Nancy. That's what I would guess. The very first witness called by the state was Holly's father. That would be Dana Bobo. And he told the jury that he recalled that his daughter had been taken, he found out from a phone call at work. And he says to the jury, he recalled hearing through the phone, Holly's been taken. I mean, I don't even

know if my mind would comprehend, we could understand those words. If somebody told me one of the twins had been taken, listen to what the father says. I got a phone call from her, and I had some guys around me that are talking, And she told me that I needed to come back home because Holly had been taken. And I said, what? And it was the guy beside me talking, and I had to holler at him and tell him to quiet down. I forgot what I said, but he quieted down. And she told me for the second time and she was crying. And I understood it was second time what she said. Holly had been

taken. Holly has been taken four words. What sort of an impact did Holly Has Been Taken have on you at that moment? That was the worst feeling you could possibly feel. That something bad has happened to one of your kids. Dr. Bethany Marshall was alluding to the facts as we know them, the horrific crime facts. We can't turn away from that. I don't like discussing it. I don't like hearing it.

But if you want justice, you have to deal with the facts, Shane. Nancy, from the testimony of the father and the mother and the 911 calls that Karen Bobo made from home were just gut-wrenching. She was telling, you know, wanting to know who the dispatcher was, and she somehow ended up in the wrong county and had to call back. And then, you know, Karen Bobo collapsed on the stand yesterday uh and then her father talked about when they finally found Holly's body three years later that he had just about given up there's been several things that popped up between when she was taken and her body was found that false leads I guess you would say and uh at one point, investigators called Karen Bobo to come out and thought they had found Holly's purse, and it turned out not to be. And Mr. Bobo talked about, obviously, this is a rural area, farm area. Talk about going hunting, and he'd go out by himself just looking for Holly in the wooded area before her skull was found. But I've covered a lot of trials.

I've never heard the emotion that I heard from the parents. And then those 911 calls, it was just, just like i said gut-wrenching i remember not long ago the defendants were in court smirking smirking because it was revealed the prosecution still did not have hard evidence hard evidence to show they were responsible for Holly's murder. They had statements, but statements alone, even a confession alone under our laws and our jurisprudence, a confession alone is not enough for a conviction. There must be corroborating evidence. You can't just walk into a police station and confess and that carry the day.

That will not suffice. There has to be additional evidence. So these guys were in court showing off and smirking because it was revealed the state didn't have the goods. We know that Holly was just 20 when she disappeared from her parents' home in Parsons, Tennessee. Her skull was found three and a half years later near her home. That's about 100 miles southwest of Nashville. Her disappearance led to a massive search, and this is what we know. The trial had to be moved from Decatur County to a neighboring county for an unbiased jury. Adams, one of the defendants with a criminal record includes drug possession, assault, is facing the death penalty.

We know that after kidnapping, drugging, and raping Holly, Adams wrapped her in a blanket and took her in a trunk to a friend's home. He then called another friend, Jason Autry, and they went to the Tennessee River to, quote, gut her and throw her in the water. But when Bobo made a sound, she was still alive after all this torture. She made a sound, so Adams then shot her in the head. He described her to others in sexually vulgar terms and bragged that the world would never find out what happened to her. Two guys looking for ginseng find Holly's remains, and that started the investigation.

Take a listen to Holly's mother, Karen, as she desperately calls 911. This is what the jury has just heard. The secretary of the school came to the cafeteria and she said that the neighbor had called and said she didn't want to alarm me but she thought she heard screams coming from the house. So that's not a phone call that I got every day. I never gotten a phone call like that so I almost instantly got into a panic at that point. I called 911 with her phone. Somebody has my daughter.

Okay. She's in a back-up, hand-down car. 331, 411, please get there now. They're on their way. Is that where you live? Freeman, take a look out. It's a manual. Call CamelBud.Holly. Okay. I got officers on the way right now. Okay, Karen? They don't call my sweetie to help me on the way. Red Man, okay, get in. I've got Mama, sweetie, help me.

They're on their way, sweetie. Red Man. I'm in there. It's a robber. Mama, sweetie, help me. I'm in there. I'm in there. They're on their way, sweetie. I've got everybody on their way.

Red Man, already. Oh, my God. Please get everybody out there. Okay. They're on their way, sweetie. They're on their way. Red Man. We have been researching and looking, and I think Shane Dieter and Dr. Bethany Marshall, we have the connection. Holly Bobo's mother was the fourth grade teacher of the man accused of raping and murdering the nursing student.

So his fourth grade teacher was Holly's mother. We also know that a woman who grew up with Adams told police he stalked Holly at a hunt a week before she disappeared, that he made comments about Holly during the past year. And those comments were reported to authorities. Now, all this time, he's been held without bond. What do we actually know about what happened to Holly Shane Dietert? There's supposedly video of Holly that they shot during this thing where she was alive and tied up and crying but uh zach adams defense is going to be i didn't know her and again like you said earlier

there's no physical evidence it's all well i think that they did develop physical evidence in the form of hair forensics and fiber but you're right for a long time they did develop physical evidence in the form of hair, forensics, and fiber. But you're right, for a long time they had no physical evidence. You brought up something, Shane Dietert, that I find very, very intriguing in the sense of like looking at a snake in a box. Dr. Bethany Marshall, the fact that they actually videoed Holly Bobo, what does that mean? I find the details so chilling. The fact that somebody actually videotaped her tied up, crying, allegedly being raped and tortured, and actually gained satisfaction from that.

I've given a lot of thought to this, Nancy, and it seems that not only was the primary perp stalking Holly, but that somehow all of these guys were working in concert as rapists. And what we know with these kinds of groups is that usually there is one male who is in charge, like a dominant male who's either a sociopath or a serial killer, and they recruit other weaker, like-minded males to act in concert with them. So one of the guys was holding the videotape, actually voyeuristically enjoying this. So we have all these perversions coming to the fore in this horrible, cold-blooded crime.

We have voyeurism, which is taking a look at something. We have exhibitionism, somebody wanting to be videotaped or observed in the act. We have sadism, which is the cruelty. We have all these sexual perversions and paraphilias really sort of in this group of men. And it's really sort of frightening. Use the word snake. It's like a snake pit. And Holly seems to be one victim. But I wonder how many other women they've stalked, other crimes they may have committed.

And whenever there's one perversion, there's another. I think of maybe pedophilia or frauderism, which is rubbing up against an unsuspecting person in public. And were these young men actually offending, sexual offending against other women in the community? They need to all be put away, Nancy. They need to never, ever see the light of day. Dr. Bethany Marshall, what do we know about the defendants? They were reportedly in a dark world. Those are the words of the police and the prosecutors. What do they mean by that? They're meth freaks? Well, what we do know, yes, is that they were addicted to methamphetamine. We do know that the perp accosted and abducted Holly early in the morning hours so that his sleep-wake

cycle was turned around. That's one of the things we see with meth addicts. I can speak to the psychology of them. I do know that drugs overkill an addiction to excitement, power, and sexuality often become fused in the minds of these sorts of men. So often when you see a crime scene where a meth addict is the perpetrator, you see something that we call overkill. You've seen this in a lot of the crimes we've covered in the past, Nancy, where there's a lot of blood, a lot of people tied up, accosting the body repeatedly in ways that are unnecessary to

produce death. It seems to go in line with this kind of mindset. We do know that somehow all of these men, I believe because of their drug habit, must have been sort of spending excessive amounts of time together. In other words, they have a lot of time to engage in their sexual fantasies and to plot and to plan. And then I know from a psychoanalytic perspective that we have something that we call triumph over the object. And that is when a man wants to triumph over a woman, that the act of rape and murder and assault has to do with the degradation of the female body, that there's something very satisfying about that.

Because if these men live in a world where they have no power, no sense of agency, they're lost, and somehow finding this beautiful, gorgeous young woman, you've seen pictures of her, Nancy, and mutilating her, triumphing over her, gutting her, makes them seem sort of relevant and powerful in the world. That is the sick, twisted mind of these perpetrators. We understand based on what the state and police are saying. When they say the perps lived in a, quote, dark, dark world, they were all on methamphetamines and morphine on the day that Holly,

especially Adams, was abducted. And again, the act of after all the rape and torture that had been inflicted on her to think she's dead, and then when she moved, they just shot her in the head, tossed her body in the Tennessee River. This is what we know. After that massive search, her body was found. But in court, in the last hours, Holly Bobo's mother, Karen, collapsed, sobbing on the ground, as Shane Dietert has just told us, and says, I'm feeling sick, and then collapses. The judge cleared media out of the courtroom, and they took a break until the mother could stand to hear the facts about her daughter. So after the mother collapses, Shane Dietert, what happened?

The defense, Nancy, asked for a mistrial, which the judge denied. You mean a mistrial because her mother, Karen, broke down? That? The defense said that the jury will not be able to get out of their mind seeing the mom break down and then actually, I don't know if she passed out or not, but she fell to the floor. And then they brought in the doctor or the judge had him bring in a medical team to attend to Ms. Bobo. Dr. Bethany, you told us that was because the judge wanted to ensure the mom was not malingering or faking? Yes, so malingering is when somebody makes up a fictitious medical disorder to gain the sympathy of other people or to get out of some punishment or consequence. Apparently, the scene of this mother collapsing in court was so dramatic.

And you can imagine, Nancy, because you're a mother, if you had to sit and listen to the testimony and listen to what happened to Holly Bobo, the judge actually had to assure the jury that the mother was not malingering. So I'm imagining that the mother was so distraught and so unable to even stand that it created confusion in the mind of the jurors. They did not know how to interpret the scene. Thank God for this judge, this quick thinking judge who called in the medical team and actually had the courage to set the jurors. I think part of the reason the judge did it legally is because he wanted to show Holly's mother, Karen, really did feel ill to protect the case on appeal. But let me tell you both. I've had many cases where somebody, a witness, a mother,

typically a mother, or even a victim, quote, falls out in court. It means they just can't take it. They fall out. They fall. They get sick. They pass out. They have an outburst. They cry. That is not unusual in a criminal case, particularly a murder case where the facts are so heinous in this case. We have now learned that at least 50 witnesses are expected to take the stand. People, including those who have been granted immunity by the prosecution, in order to find out just what we're talking about, what actually happened during those hours Holly had been kidnapped and tortured. Immunity for three people, including Densmore, Alexander, and Kilzer.

Federal authorities have also asked for immunity for Densler. Now, we know many of them have extensive criminal backgrounds, and it's hard to believe that you walk out your door in the morning, 7.30 in the morning, on the way to school, and you're gone. It's over. Now, we have constructed somewhat of a timeline, and it goes like this. Around 7.40 a.m., a neighbor of the Bobo's walks out to go to his construction job, and he hears a scream from the Bobo's house, tells his mother, and goes to work. 7.45, the neighbor's mom calls Karen Bobo at work

and tells the school secretary to relay the message. This is the time Hollywood normally leaves around 7.45 to get to school at 7.55, her nursing school. 7.50, a barking dog wakes up Clint Bobo. He notices his sister's car still in the driveway and calls his mom's cell at school. The mom doesn't have the phone with her, but gets the message from the secretary, phones home, talks to the son who tells her Holly's car is still there. It's still just 7.55 a.m.

Karen Bobo calls 911. She reaches the wrong emergency dispatcher, as Shane Dietrich just told us. Clint Bobo looks out the window, sees a man dressed in camo walking with his sister toward the woods. Clint calls his sister's phone and gets the voicemail, calls her boyfriend and gets the voicemail. Still before 8 o'clock, Karen calls the house again. Her son tells what he saw. She says that's not the boyfriend. Call 911.

Nancy, Karen Bobo, when she got a hold of Clint Bobo, she told Clint that it wasn't Holly's boyfriend and to take a gun, go out there and shoot him. Go shoot him. And by the time Clint got there, I mean. And to take a gun, go out there and shoot him. Go shoot him. And by the time Clint got there, I mean, got out with the gun, he couldn't see him. The brother gets a loaded pistol and walks out the back door at the mom's request. He sees a puddle of blood near his sister's car. His neighbor's mother pulls up in the driveway to say screams were heard

15 minutes before Clint calls 911. That's how fast 911 was called. They were called within 15-20 minutes. A little before 8-10 a.m., the first deputy from Decatur County arrives at the house. Police come to believe Holly was abducted as she tried to get in her car to drive to nursing school. She is never seen again. Search efforts are centered in an area where authorities find a lunchbox. I remember when this happened. A lunchbox was found on Bible Hill Road. The poor little thing was still clutching her lunchbox to take to school. Volunteers looked through wooded areas hoping to find anything. They try to find things that may have come from her purse. Nothing is found. Prayer vigils are conducted. TBI agents think they find her pink purse, which she was carrying.

Then, Karen Bobo sees the purse and confirms it's not Holly's. Then, Feb 28, the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation executes a search warrant at the home of Zachary Adams, 15 minutes from the Bobo's home. They say it's too early to announce suspects. The TBI then holds a news conference about the Bobo case and announced Adams has been indicted on especially aggravated kidnapping and first-degree murder. But what is the evidence? Brothers Jeffrey and Mark are charged with tampering with evidence. Jason Autry is indicted in kidnapping and murder. A guy named Matt Stowe is elected as the new DA. The case moves forward. Two men in September looking for ginseng find human remains 400 yards north in the woods.

They say, and we don't know why, that they were very disturbed by evidence they find in a bucket. Investigators confirm the partial remains are Holly Bobo. Now we are at trial, and we are headed to the courtroom to bring you the latest. Psychoanalyst Dr. Bethany Marshall and also Shane Dieter, W.A.T. in Memphis. We're on it. Head to Wichita. The body of a missing three-year-old boy has just been found encased in cement. Just been found and tentatively identified identified as little Evan Brewer. His grandfather served two terms as the mayor of Wichita. Yes, his grandfather served two terms as mayor of Wichita. And what is so upsetting to me is there has been a long history of abuse that people knew about.

Joining me right now, investigative reporter Jessica McMaster with KSHB-TV 41 Action News on the story along with renowned forensics expert Karen Smith. Jessica, what happened? You know, got word over the weekend that a three-year-old boy who had been missing was found encased in concrete. Little was known, obviously, at that time, but as the details came out, it turns out that police in Wichita had been looking for mom, been looking for this little boy for quite some time, couldn't find them. And then we recently put in a request for some court records and found that this boy's biological father had concerns that this little boy had been being abused for a long time

and was trying to save this little boy. So it's just incredibly heartbreaking for this whole family. Wichita Police Lieutenant Jeff Gilmore says investigators were waiting on the results of DNA tests before making that positive ID. I just don't understand how it got to this point when people knew, people knew that abuse was going on. Kansas welfare officials had investigative reports Evan was being abused this year. Earlier this year, in fact, in July, a protection from abuse order was issued, okay, on the boy's behalf. I don't understand how they knew this was happening, Jessica McMaster. But the child was murdered

anyway. What do we know? Right now, we really need this little boy's record from the social services department. But of course, we're not going to get those because one, like you mentioned, he hasn't been officially identified. And there's currently an ongoing investigation. And so this is a lot like what we saw with Adrian Jones. It takes us to that beginning part where we knew who he was, we knew he was found, but not officially identified. And it was a waiting game of those records. But what we do know is that his dad filed several protection from abuse orders against the little boy's mother and her live-in boyfriend. And in those orders, the father reported that a witness told him that that live-in boyfriend would beat

his son to the brink of death. The mother, Miranda Miller, and the boyfriend, Stephen Bodine, are the ones that we are talking about. Now, when I look at the mother, she looks like any soccer mom you'd meet in the carpool line. A landlord was cleaning the house in Wichita, Kansas, when he found a cement structure and noticed an odor coming from the structure. Before the landlord's discovery, Miranda Miller and her live-in, Stephen Bodine, had already been arrested on custody issues. Didn't anybody wonder, where's the little boy?

The lawyer for the boy's father, Carlo Brewer, told KWCH, we've known the child was missing for months. How does a child just slip through the cracks? When you know the child is missing and nobody arrests the mom, people know the baby's getting abused and what, child welfare just writes another piece of paper? What'd they do, you know, turn it into an airplane and fly it to the trash can? Another piece of paper as the boy is beaten over and over and over? Karen Smith, forensic expert, joining me along with Jessica McMaster from KSHB-TV 41 Action News. Entombed in cement,

Karen Smith, what issues does that present for a crime scene crew? We are dealing with a small child encased in a concrete structure. There's really no details about what that structure might be, whether it's a wall or a floor, I don't know. But you know, you're dealing with a very small child, you're dealing with a lot of time. So unfortunately, DNA is going to have to be used to identify his remains. And, you know, the landlord, for being astute thank goodness reported it to police otherwise you know god knows the little boy may still have been in there at this point it's going to take a lot of work for the pathologist and the dna experts but hopefully they should have an answer here in the

next from what i understand about the next week or so what What do you mean an answer to what? I mean, who else could it be? Number one, but they could do a, if they even bother to take the child to a dentist, you can do a dental comparison immediately. So why is it going to take weeks to get an answer to what, Karen Smith? Well, they have to identify him. I mean, everybody knows it's going to be the child that's encased in the concrete, but in order to have the investigation progress, they have to make that victim ID first. And, you know, a three-year-old, I don't know how often a three-year-old is taken to the dentist. I don't have children, so I have no idea what kind of records they would have on him. And if

this mother is that irresponsible to begin with, did she even have dental records for this little boy? Maybe that's why he's lying so hard on the DNA. Well, I also know this, Jessica McMaster. Lawyers state that Mr. Brewer, the father, had already filed a court order to protect the little boy, his son, from Bodine back in July. What happened to that, Jessica? Well, he actually filed the first order in May. And at that point when it was filed, police said during their press conference that this investigation was being led by Kansas Department for Children and Families. But then once that protection order was filed, police say that they hopped on board and they tried to help

this father locate the son, but that they believe the mother left the state with him at some point. They said that they conducted surveillance on the home. They were watching for her, talking to neighbors and could not locate her. It's not clear how they know this, but the lieutenant during that press conference also said that at some point in August, I believe, they became aware that the mom knew that they were looking for her and was evading police. And so they caught up with her. As you know, at the end of August, she wasn't with her child and were able to arrest her on, you know, unrelated charges. Carl Brewer has issued the following statement after learning the remains found in the cement structure were

likely those of his taught grandson. Quote, we are devastated by the death of our sweet, loving grandson, Evan. We cannot begin to make sense of this tragedy, but are thankful the suspects are in custody. We request prayers for our family during this time and while the police continue this investigation. We also know that a Sedgwick County judge issued that protective order to Bodine to stay away with the child whose initials are CAB. It's clearly him. Or is there another childhood issue?

And he was scheduled, again, to appear September 19. So he's heading back to court. My question is, is this going to be a death penalty case? Jessica, what do we know? So far, I mean, I can't answer that. I don't know what prosecutors, you know, what their decisions are going to be, especially, again, because we're just kind of back to square one in the waiting game and getting more details. I'm curious to see what that search warrant will reveal because I'm sure that they collected computers and things like that. And so we need so much more information before we really know how they're going to try

this case. And if the mom's involved, too. I don't know if we want to mention Adrian Jones, but again, when the little boy's remains were found in a pig pen in 2015, when that all first evolved, the first person that was arrested was his father, and people thought that his stepmom, initially Heather, was an innocent, battered woman. And then as time went on, we found out she played a much bigger role in that boy's death. Well, I can give you a little information on the state of the death penalty in Kansas. It is a death penalty state. It was reinstated in 1994 following Furman v. Georgia. That was the case that went all the way up to the U.S. Supreme Court. When a death penalty does go down, it's at the El Dorado Correctional Facility, and that's in El Dorado, Kansas. This is what I know. When people say, was the mother involved?

Okay, so either Bodine battered the boy until he was dead or killed him in some other way. And the mother stood by and let it happen or she took part in it. I mean, after one beating and then the next and the next and the next and the next and people are calling the sheriff and you're trying to get protective orders and the mother still lets it happen. Oh yeah. They should both be prosecuted for murder one and get the death penalty. I'm just telling you whether they'll ever be put to death. Who knows? Who knows? They're up for parole after, what, 25 years or so? Not saying that that'll be granted, but they didn't get the death penalty,

and we know what happened to that little boy. It was awful. So why should history repeat itself? I am talking about a taut boy, battered, beaten over and over and over for the live-in boyfriend, Bodine's enjoyment. That child was in a living hell. And probably the last thing he saw before he went to his maker was his mother's face standing by. She let it happen if she didn't have a hand in it herself. A three-year-old tot. I mean, what kind of society are we that we let this happen through our red tape and orders on a piece of paper that don't mean

they're not worth the ink that goes on the paper because this boy is dead the community here is very angry and if you you know if you get on social media and you start engaging in a lot of those comments a lot of people talking that's the one thing that people are talking about is how did this happen again how are we seeing this? I think when we talked last time, we spoke to a child psychologist. You had a child psychologist on here with us who said, you know, there are parents who just nap and it's a one-time thing and there really is no history. But it looks like, again, there might be history with law enforcement, with social services. And so it does make people angry, and they do want those answers. And here's the interesting thing, Nancy.

The grandfather of this little boy, as you mentioned, was mayor of Wichita, but he's also running for governor of Kansas. If he still plans to do that, and I don't know what his plans are at this point. Obviously, his family's in mourning. But if he does and say he gets elected and that comes to fruition, he would then oversee that agency. He would then be looking a lot closer at DCF. And that might be what changes things. What I want now is these two prosecuted for murder one.

Nothing, nothing short of murder one will suffice. That is what I'm saying. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.