Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Hollywood honcho Harvey Weinstein indictment? Texas Cheerleader dumped at ER, mysteriously dies

Episode Date: November 8, 2017

Embattled movie producer Harvey Weinstein could face criminal charges in New York soon. Nancy Grace digs into the growing Hollywood sex scandal with Los Angeles defense lawyer and former child actor Troy Slaten, Los Angeles psycho analyst Dr. Bethany Marshall, and RadarOnline reporter Alexis Tereszcuk. Questions are being raised as Texas Rangers investigate the sudden and mysterious death of a Trinity University cheerleader. Grace is joined by Sheryl McCollum, crime scene expert, Crime Stories contributing reporter John Lemley, and New York psychologist Dr. Chloe Carmichael, creator of AnxietyTools.com, to discuss the case. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. The man behind them? Legendary Hollywood producer Harvey Weinstein. After multiple sexual harassment allegations, movie mogul Harvey Weinstein has been forced out of his own company. His movies have won a total of 75 Oscars. Eight women, including actress Ashley Judd, came forward to accuse Weinstein of sexual misconduct. The Times uncovered sexual harassment allegations that span almost three decades. The film executive announced plans to take a, quote, leave of absence. I'm a famous guy. I'm feeling very comfortable right now. Please come in now, and one minute, and if you want to leave,

when the guy comes in my jacket, you can go. Why yesterday you touched my wrist? Oh, please, I'm sorry. Just come on. I'm used to that. You're used to that? Yes, come in. You know what? Right now, the NYPD really ought to be ashamed, and I'm a big supporter of the police. But right now, the NYPD really ought to be ashamed.

And I'm a big supporter of the police. You know, police were my best witnesses, except for a couple of dogs I put on the stand a couple of times. And some of the most honorable people I know. Police. But right now, the Brits, the British police, are they actually going to bring charges against Harvey Weinstein before American cops can do it? Please get a move on. There's more. Will it never end with Harvey Weinstein and all of his alleged attacks on women,

ranging from groping them, harassing them, pressuring them, chasing them around in a bathrobe that's open in the front. Man, please don't do that. It is not sexy. It's really not. Don't. All the way to allegations of rape. Now I'm finding out he apparently hit on Paris Hilton in a bathroom. Does it never end with this guy? But there's a lot more than bathroom antics and hitting on Paris Hilton.

I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. And I'm not going to rest until somebody arrests this guy and we find out the truth, whether these allegations are true or not. I mean, let's think about it. Are all these women lying? All 30 going on 40, maybe more of them now? Are they all lying?

Or is it just Harvey Weinstein lying think about it that's how I used to put it to the jury joining me right now an all-star lineup Alexis Tereshchuk joining me from RadarOnline.com high profile lawyer Troy Slayton joining me from LA apparently the hotbed of Harvey Weinstein activities. And Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, joining me from L.A. And, of course, Alan Deet joining me from his penthouse pad in L.A. First of all, Alexis Tereschuk, does it never end with this guy? No, it doesn't.

Every single time you think every last woman has come forward, another woman comes forward and surprises you with the horrific experience that she had with Harvey Weinstein. What's the very latest? So the latest is an actress named Paz de la Huerta. She was on Boardwalk Empire. She is the actress that people have really picked on, I'd say, for the last couple of years. People say she's drunk at events, that she's a mess, she's losing her job.

Well, she just explained that in 2010 harvey weinstein raped her twice perhaps an explanation for why she's had such a bad life whoa whoa whoa wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait alexis hold on i glanced away from the microphone for 20 seconds to look up a picture of paris hilton and all of a sudden then all of a sudden I'm hearing the words, raped twice by Harvey Weinstein. Start over. Excuse me, what? Actress Paz de la Huerta, beautiful actress on Boardwalk Empire. And she says that in 2010, she had done the movie Cider House Rules a decade earlier with Harvey Weinstein. So she knew him from that, never had any experience with him. In 2010, she met, she saw him at a club. They hung out. She didn't say anything. They were drinking or anything like that. She just said they were together at an event. He offered her a ride home. Who wouldn't take a ride home with the head of Miramax, the most powerful man in Hollywood, she is an actress, comes up to her apartment, she says, immediately grabbed her dress off, ripped it off and raped her.

Now, you said that there were two rape allegations on her part. She says a few months later, after midnight, all of a sudden, Harvey Weinstein is pounding at the door of her apartment. She lets him in again. She says, I don't know why I did it. I know how to say no. But it was Harvey Weinstein. And I was overwhelmed. And she says he came in again and raped her a second time. I'm so just sick, Dr. Bethany Marshall, because rape victims, sex assault victims always feel like it's their fault. Well, not always, but very often. I understand. I understand how they feel.

I have represented so many rape victims. And like this case, the first time she probably thought, well, I'll let him in. You know, that was my fault. I let him in. And then I'm just sick about the way this is unfolding. And I'm even sicker that no charges have been brought. Help me get into their minds, Dr. Bethany Marshall. Well, we hear that she let him in a second time.

But what we're not hearing is all the grooming that took place in between those two rape attacks. So I would imagine he was stalking her, calling her, texting her. You know, this isn't just somebody who gets a knock at her door and lets somebody in. This is somebody who has been brought into somebody's confidence and has let her guard down and who can't really believe that this powerful man would stoop to this level. You know, victims are always vulnerable. As you know, Nancy, they sometimes they have things going on in their lives that make them vulnerable. Maybe they have histories of being victims. Maybe they can't imagine that somebody in a position of trust would do this to them. So they leave themselves wide open, which is not to say that it's their fault.

You know, there's very robust research into the minds of rapists. And we know that rapists fall into three different categories. One is a power rapist, but one is something called a power assertion rapist. And that is the rapist who wants to imagine that he's wanted. After the rape attack, he will describe that the woman wanted it. He has no idea what's going on in her mind. He imagines that she wants to have sex with him. In his mind, he's wanted and desirable. And when I read these reports of him, you know, inviting young women up to his hotel room and his robe is unbuttoned, his pot belly, his hairy chest is hanging out, and he actually thinks this is sexy. This, to me, really falls into the category of the power assertion rapist who really wants to think that they're wanted, even though they're not. The big question, can Paz de la Huerta help get Harvey Weinstein behind bars? You know,

the way she describes what happened is awful. And I'm giving you her quote. Immediately, when we got inside the house, he started to kiss me and I kind of brushed him away. Then he pushed me onto the bed and his pants were down. He lifted up my me and I kind of brushed him away. Then he pushed me onto the bed and his pants were down. He lifted up my skirt. I felt afraid. It was not consensual. It happened very quickly. She goes on and ends with, when he was done, he said he'd be calling me. I laid on the bed in shock. Alexis Tereszczuk, I'm just hurting for this woman because I know what sex assault victims go through. And for the rest of your life, you may go on, you may get another job, you may succeed, you you may excel people may think you're unstoppable

but in your mind you still remember that feeling of powerlessness of helplessness of what could I have done different why didn't I do this why didn't I do that what prompted her Alexis Therese Chuck Radar online.com to speak out. She said that she had just seen so many people come forward and that she realized that her time was within the statute of limitations and that she could actually do something to stop Harvey Weinstein. That she realized that she could actually be effective in perhaps putting him behind bars. And she just said so many people had come forward and she had been so afraid to talk about it. She told two people, she told, I think her mother and a therapist, hardly anybody, because she was so ashamed of it. And, and you know, her career was, it went nowhere. She had had a great career. A lot of women that Harvey had attacked said the same thing that he destroyed

their career. And that even Mira Sorvino who won an, said, you know, she said, I had no proof, but my jobs went away after she turned him down. So Paz finally realized that she had nothing left to do. She had to speak out. And she is the one that may bring him down. The NYPD says that she's very credible and that she has given them so many explicit details that they feel like this is the case that they could prosecute, that they could arrest Harvey. Sorry, I'm not the lawyer. The NYPD could arrest Harvey. I understand.

I understand. So this is what we know. Paz de la Huerta described to the NYPD two alleged rapes in 2010. And as you all know by now, there was no longer a statute of limitations on rape in New York that's my understanding of the law and I'm going to go to Troy Slayton on that De La Huerta appeared in Weinstein's film Cider House Rules okay at age 14 she ran into the producer again Weinstein at age 26 they were at the standard at the Highline Hotel in Manhattan 2010 she got a ride home all right that's when the first alleged rape happened the second happened

when Weinstein showed up at her apartment in the lobby weeks later and he has of course now unequivocally denied any unconsensual sex. Now, according to the NYPD Chief of Detectives Robert Boyce, he has spoken about the allegations, and he says, and I'm quoting, We have an actual case here. We're happy with where the case is right now. Mr. Weinstein is out of state. We would need an arrest warrant to arrest him.

Right now, we're gathering our evidence and continue to do so. Now, it's heartening that they've said that, Troy Slayton, you're the high-profile defense lawyer, but it's also not saying we've got an arrest warrant ready as soon as he puts a toe in in New York. So what do you make of it, Troy? Nancy, the NYPD has said that these allegations are the strongest that they have so far and that they're taking their time to assemble their case. And it is interesting that New York got rid of the statute of limitations for rape about 10 years ago. So this could very well be the thing that takes Harvey Weinstein down. She said, quote, I was very traumatized. I don't think I was taking very good care of myself. What happened with Harvey left me scarred for many years.

I felt so disgusted by it with myself. I became a little self-destructive. It was really hard for me to deal, to cope. What does that mean, Dr. Bethany Marshall? Well, what it means is that she blames herself for the rape, that the sudden unwanted intrusion of something traumatic has left deep scars. One of the things we know about post-traumatic stress disorder is that it's the unanticipated intrusive nature of what happens that is sometimes so traumatic that the person cannot prepare for the trauma. I would imagine that what is happening to her

is similar to many rape victims, that they dissociate, meaning they disconnect from themselves, which causes a feeling of being deadened inside. And then often that paves the way for eating disorders, cutting, self-destructive behaviors that are really for the purpose of trying to feel alive again in some way, and that there's massive distrust in all of her relationships because when something like this happens, you stop trusting people. And then when you stop trusting people, you stop letting good things into your life. And then there's no therapeutic aspect to relationships. Does that make sense? So if you don't trust people, you push them away. And then all of a sudden, other bad happenings start taking place in your life. According to the NYPD, also, and now I'm quoting NYPD Detective Nicholas DiGuardio,

he says, quote, I believe based on my interviews with Paz that from the NYPD standpoint, we have enough to make an arrest. All right. Troy Slayton, what's the holdup? The NYPD and the New York County District Attorney's Office want to make sure that they have all their ducks in a row. They know this is going to be the case of the year, if not the decade. And they want to make sure that they get it right. All eyes are going to be on them. He's going to have a team

of high-powered lawyers. This has been assigned to the best in the office, so they just want to make sure they get it right. Let me ask you something, Troy. I've been thinking about this a lot. Now, New York and a few other states, a handful of other states, have done away with the statute of limitations on rape, much like murder. There is no statute of limitations on murder in any jurisdiction in our country. So now a handful of states have said there's no statute of limitations. What I mean by that statute of limitations is this. Say, let's just say I go to Troy Slayton's house and I slash his tires because I don't like what he said on the Sirius radio show.

I think criminal damage to property, you've got like a two to five year statute of limitations. In other words, if I'm not prosecuted within two to five years of slashing Troy's tires, they can't touch me. I walk free. Here's my question. That's what a statute of limitations is. The time within which you can bring the prosecution has a limit. Okay. You can't come back on me for slashing those tires 20 years from now. Okay. Unless I do it again, Troy. So watch out. And there's a good, there's a good reason for that, Nancy. The reason is because it becomes harder to defend yourself if years later you have an alibi about where you were that night when I'm alleging that you were slashing my tires and that person dies or forgets or you lose some of the evidence that you had to prove that you were somewhere else.

So there's a good reason for that. So here's my question to you, Troy Slayton. If New York has now gotten rid of the statute, does that apply? Could it apply retroactively to older rape cases? Or does that just apply to cases that occurred since the statute was banned? The answer is changing the law can't revive a case that was already time barred. However, some of the older cases that may not be able to be prosecuted on their own can be brought in to show Harvey Weinstein's M.O., to show his habit and routine, to show the way

that he did things. Just like we saw in the Bill Cosby rape trial, there was another case that was brought in not to show that he did something else on another day, so therefore he's a bad guy and you should convict him, but to show this is the way that he conducted his criminal acts. So it's called similar transactions under the law. So, again, I could get prosecuted for slashing Troy's tires, Troy Slayton's tires, but Sass slashed Alan Duke's and Alexis Tereshuk's and Dr. Bethany Marshall's. But that was 15 years ago. Brought in with the Troy incident to show my MO, my method of operation, my modus operandi, how Weinstein's MO, his course of conduct, frame of mind, and scheme, his motive. Yes, they can come into court for that reason. Let me pause and thank our partner who is making our program possible today. It's LegalZoom. And all you business owners know how important it is to keep moving forward.

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Big question. What about Paris Hilton, Alexis tereshchuk what happened with that so apparently a long time ago actually in 2001 paris hilton was at this very exclusive fundraiser amfar which harvey weinstein does every year i can't understand you're talking la valley girl what did you just say paris hilton was at a fundraiser all i heard was a very exclusive paris hilton went to a fundraiser the organization is called amfar A-M-F-A-R Harvey Weinstein has been involved for decades Paris Hilton walked in wearing I think three quarters of a million dollars worth of diamonds on her dress so she instantly obviously everybody was looking at her but Harvey zeroed in on her he basically stalked her throughout the

party waited until she went into the bathroom and actually followed her into the bathroom tried to push open the stall that she was in trying to get to her luckily paris did not open the stall and security had watched him they thought it was very strange that he was going into the women's bathroom and they dragged him out of there they had to stay by paris's side the whole night to keep him away from her they were so afraid that he was going to do something to her. And he was apparently very lecherously going after her. Oh, oh. So Troy Slayton,

let me just wrap this up and put a bow on it. Where is, you may not even know this, Alexis Tereshok, where is Harvey Weinstein right now? So he is still in treatment, his treatment in Phoenix, Arizona,

but he actually was spotted over the weekend at a restaurant, but he was wearing a disguise. He had on like a blonde wig as if the whole world doesn't know what Harvey Weinstein looks like now. He was trying to hide out. He was at a chain restaurant and just chowing down on dinner, but not under arrest, not really doing any intensive therapy, just having dinner out in a wig. Okay, so apparently he's not that concerned, Troy Slayton, because according to TMZ, Harvey Weinstein, quote, wigs out at Phoenix restaurant. I mean, have you seen this picture of him? He apparently shows up in a not so good disguise at a Phoenix restaurant.

And it was a blonde wig with orange makeup and a baseball cap. He showed up at something called Chestnut Restaurant. He asked for a private room, but the room was all glass. So everybody could still see him. That's what I know. So how can NYPD get their mitts on him Troy if he's in Arizona and so-called treatment at the chestnut restaurant in a blonde wig as soon as NYPD gets before a judge and gets a warrant signed based on probable cause they can execute that warrant in cooperation with local authorities anywhere in the United States. He's not going

anywhere. Harvey Weinstein is being watched. And I think that as soon as they've got their ducks in a row and they're ready to start their prosecution, then he'll be facing arrest no matter where. Dr. Bethany, why is it that so many people find God when they're behind bars? Now, let me tell you a funny story, Dr. Bethany. So when I was first prosecuting, I was doing a plea and arraignment calendar. And, you know, he brought 50, 60 guys over from the jail, maybe three or four women. And I had on a cross necklace. It was very, you know, small, but you know, I guess they saw it. The next, that was on Monday. I had another calendar on Thursday. Now, because I would go through the cases.

I would give a plea offer if there was going to be one, which they all hated because they thought it was too strict. And then they'd come back, let's say on Thursday, and they'd either take the plea or I'd put them on a trial calendar. When they came back on Thursday, Dr. Bethany, about 18 or 19 of them had woven from yarn i don't know where they got giant crosses and were wearing them around their necks and came in and were like looking at me with these sad puppy eyes i'm like okay that yarn is not working on me okay so apparently apparently weinstein has has found the lord and you know? I'm glad for him if this is true because he sure is going to need it. On his hat, this is how I know this. He had on a hat at Chestnut Restaurant.

And it was on top of his orange makeup and blonde wig. It was a hat. And it was inscribed 2 colon 24. And there is a Bible verse that reads, But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him. So you know what? I want Harvey Weinstein to, you know, realize the bad thing he's done and just go ahead and plead guilty and go to jail. Don't lie about it. And he can explore verse 224 for a nice long time behind bars. Why is he finding God now? Well, I do not begrudge him God, just like you don't

begrudge God. But you know, when you talk about these, these convicts coming and they have all these crosses around their neck and then Harvey Weinstein and he has this Bible verse on his hat. I mean, I just tend to think of it as magical thinking, meaning that they think God is going to magically swoop down and save them. I also see it as a form of manipulation. I mean, Harvey is highly manipulative. His victims were actresses, women who wanted something from him, and he would target that population. And it's almost as if he's targeting the public at this point by plastering this Bible verse on his hat. And you know, Nancy, one of the things that really upsets me about this story and similar stories where men go to treatment for sex addiction is that this has nothing to do with sex addiction. This has to

do with criminality. This has to do with being a sex offender. You talked about similar transactions from a legal perspective. I just hear offending pattern. He had the same exact offending pattern with each woman. And I wanted to circle back. You were asking about the destructive psychological effect of being raped or being a sexual abuse victim. One of the tragedies for these victims is that they feel guilty and ashamed because they all wanted something. Sexual abuse victims always want something, and that's what leaves them wide open. Children want to be loved. That's why they are groomed by adults.

These women wanted roles. That's why they were targeted by Harvey. Women want to be seen as being sometimes acquiescent and going along with things and not causing trouble. And that's what opens them up to being victims. And Harvey played right into that. So there's no sexual treatment center that's going to help him with that. He's just a criminal, Nancy. Another issue.

I don't understand and tell me if i'm wrong um alexis but i'm understanding he did like one week in a facility and now it's quote outpatient because i mean he's slinking around he is uh slinking around in public with a blonde wig on and on in orange makeup according to tmz so if he's in rehab at some facility what's he doing out at chestnut restaurant with a wig on and on an orange makeup according to TMZ so if he's in rehab at some facility what's he doing out at Chestnut Restaurant with a wig on so he only did about one week in treatment and now he's doing outpatient treatment which is clearly not that strict because he's in restaurants with you know hiding out in a way hiding out in plain sight I guess he is he's not in a 30-day facility he's not in a serious treatment center. He and, you know, he didn't even want to do that one week because he did not want to be away from his cell phone.

OK, we're on it and we're waiting for NYPD to do something. I don't even know what's happening with the LAPD. But I guess, you know, it looks right now the Brits are going to beat us to the courthouse. Let me pause and thank our sponsor making our program possible today. It is linkakc.com. You've got to hear about this. Guys, you know how much I love our family dog Fat Boy aka Nitro. I'm always looking for new things to try with him whether it's food, a fun shoe toy, a treat, or now an amazing new collar, and it's called Link AKC.

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tracker. Yes, for a dog. doesn't matter how old your dog is whether it's a purebred mixed or a mutt like mine link akc shows the exact amount of activity every dog needs and it's easy to set up their sizes for every dog and super comfy link akc looks great on fat boy you can see him on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. Keep your dog safe, happy, and healthy. It's easier now with a special offer from Link AKC. Go to linkakc.com. Use code Nancy to save 30% off your order with free shipping. Code Nancy, N-A-N-C-Y. Save 30% on your order that's a lot plus free shipping at linkakc.com linkakc.com code nancy a texas university is rocked by the mystery death of a young teen cheerleader just just gorgeous police now looking at possible homicide after the girl kelly mend, stops breathing in a friend's car.

That doesn't even make sense to me. You stop breathing in a friend's car and now a homicide investigation. The teen cheerleader is Kelly Mondotti. Cheryl McCollum, crime scene expert, what do we know right now? Why would she just stop breathing? Because when they say it that way, Cheryl, it makes it sound like she had a health issue but if it was a health issue why is homicide sniffing around well not just that if it was a health issue they would have stayed with her at the hospital Nancy her friends dropped her off they bounced they got out of there

so it says to me the autopsy is going to show some type of illegal substance potentially in her body there was a reason they fled you know i i'm just looking at this photo of her cheryl and i always would struggle if you recall of our days in court to find a way to show the jury the victim in life. And, you know, that's inadmissible. Pictures, photos of the victim in life are inadmissible in a court of law and a criminal trial because there's no relevance. And the defense will argue that that's just Nancy Grace trying to get sympathy by showing the jury who this victim was.

And I always thought that was just the most stupid rule of evidence. But, Cheryl, I would learn a way around it. For instance, if there had been a blow to the head, I would say, but Your Honor, this is the only way that I can show a really good picture of the victim's head because the autopsy photos show the head cut open. The jury can't even tell what that is for Pete's sake with the skin pulled back. And that's why I have to show this picture.

You know, I'm looking at this picture of this girl and she's got her little cheerleading outfits as tigers and she's in front of a statue of a tiger. It reminds me, recently I went down to Mercer, Cheryl, where you know I went to undergrad law school before I went to NYU and I took a picture with the bear. It was a giant bear. And here

she is and she's got this huge, gorgeous, gorgeous brunette hair down to her waist. And this is what got me. Aside from her big smile, somebody spent a lot of money on those teeth. But she's got this huge bow on top of her head, Cheryl. And that bow, there's always been something about every case I investigate or try. There's always one seemingly insignificant fact that just I can't get it out of my mind and it's the bow Cheryl it's the bow you know why

because that was my little girl's signature style up until this year when she just turned 10 she got she quit with the bows no matter where she went she would have a huge it could be huge it could be little bow stuck on her head usually right in the middle of her head. And we have a closet, a tiny, shallow closet of bows. And they're still there. I'm not giving up on the bows because I want her to return to them. When I saw this picture of Kelly with that big bow on her head and that big smile, and now I think this girl is dead and homicide is investigating i could help but think

about lucy cheryl i just could not help it yeah she's a dog i mean just she's so attractive she looks like so much fun she's in a sorority she's a cheerleader on this college campus and you think this is the greatest time of her life there's no question and i agree with you that bow looks to me like anybody that's ever had a little girl in cheerleading that's that signature bow right on top of their head it's bigger than their head so you can see it from the sand sonny and that's what it looks like and i guarantee you that's why she did it so her family could make her out at a distance she'd have the boat i used to do that with lucy in soccer i have a giant pink bow on her head so i could find her out on the soccer field. The mysterious death of a teen girl,

a Texas cheerleader, has totally shaken a small university campus. And it is Trinity University in San Antonio. Little Kelly Mondati is dead and Texas Rangers are now investigating her death as a homicide. I want to go to John Limley, Crime Stories investigative reporter. John, tell me what happened. How did this girl end up in the emergency room? In addition to being a 19-year-old, a cheerleader, she was a sophomore at Trinity University and also a sorority sister. Now, Texas Rangers are investigating her death, as we've mentioned, as a possible homicide. The teenager had been a passenger in that car on its way back to San Antonio from Houston during the day on Halloween when someone in the car noticed she wasn't breathing. Wait a minute.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait a minute. Okay. Dr. Chloe Carmichael, New York psychologist and creator of anxietytools.com is with us. Dr. Chloe, when I'm in the car, I've got the twins in the car. We're all talking and jabbering and having a good time this morning. I recall when I took him to school, Lucy got guinea pigs for her birthday. Don't even ask. So she didn't do her times tables. So the whole way

we were doing practicing times tables for her test. And of course, John David was butting in, causing mayhem. And we were all talking the whole way. That doesn't sound right to me right there, Dr. Chloe, is what I'm getting at. You drive all the way back to school to San Antonio and you just notice after a period of time somebody's not breathing? What? That doesn't sound right, Dr. Chloe Carmichael. Absolutely, Nancy. It sounds absolutely bizarre. It's not a narrative that makes any sense.

And the fact that they're not really offering any other explanation about it, it seems whether it's a conscious or unconscious type of denial that's going on when we hear a report like that with just kind of this detachment that that conveys that we just noticed that she wasn't breathing. You're absolutely right. It doesn't sound logical at all. And details of who was in the car with Kelly are also unknown. Cheryl, you said that they just dropped her off at the emergency room and left? Correct. They apparently took I-10 from San Antonio to Houston, which Nancy, it is a three and a half hour trip.

That's a seven hour round trip on top of however much time they spent in Houston. So it could be they thought she just was taking a nap on the way back, depending on what they did there, if they were there partying. We don't know why they even went to Houston. We don't even know who was in the car. But somewhere about two hours into the trip, they notice she's not breathing. They dump her off at this hospital in some little nowhere town and leave her and head back to San Antonio without her.

Back to John Limley, Crime Stories investigative reporter. Her friends, the friends of the little cheerleader, also tight-lipped. They say it was definitely not a suicide. Well, I mean, they're in the car with her. Wouldn't they have known what happened? They're claiming there were, quote, unusual circumstances. You know what, John? Let's just take it from the beginning, okay?

Because I've gotten as far afield with Lucy's bow and the multiplication tables. Start at the beginning, John Limley, if you don't mind. Absolutely. We know that Kaylee Mondati was riding in a car an hour or so away from San Antonio, from Houston. This was during the day on Halloween, and again, someone looked around and realized that Kaylee was not breathing. They took Mondati to a hospital in Luling, Texas, and then they left the other passengers in the car. Now, Mondati was later transferred to another hospital in Kyle, Texas, where she was pronounced dead around 3.43 that afternoon. Again, this was October 31st. Details of who was in the car with Mondati remain unknown. Now, the day

after Mondati's death, Trinity University sent out a safety alert to the campus urging students to look out for a man named Mark Howerton, who was not enrolled but was associated with the cheerleader. In fact, I did a quick Facebook check this morning before we began talking, and it shows Cayley as one of Howerton's Facebook friends. And speaking of Facebook, according to numerous selfies that Howerton made, he was quite the serious bodybuilder and liked to chronicle his progress. In fact, the page is completely filled with these selfies of Howerton at the gym. Okay, hold on right now. I'm about to go off track again. Cheryl McCollum, I told my husband, David, I said, you know what?

If you get all bulked up and buff, you know what? I'm calling your parents because I need a man that goes to work. You do not have time to go be a gym rat and bulk up and work out all day long. Sure, go for a jog, go for a walk, get your cardio in, lift a little weights here and there, but that's it. Now, when a guy is spending four and five hours at a time in the gym, Cheryl, well, that just something rubs me wrong about that, Cheryl. I hear you, Nancy, but I'll tell you what rubs me the wrong way is how everybody's being tight-lipped, even her family, her sorority, her classmates.

Let me point this out. All of his selfies, he's in what looks like an iPhone. They're going to be able to ping that and tell us everywhere he went in Houston and for how long. So, again, was he there to be able to ping that and tell us everywhere he went in Houston and for how long. So again, was he there to buy drugs, sell drugs? What in the world were they doing? Well, this is what the alert says that John Limley is telling us about. It's got two pictures of him, which were pretty easy to find. You're right about all those photos, John Limley. It says, quote, activity use alerts to directly report to tupd or see virtual escort 24 hours a day why are they

telling students they need a virtual escort if they see this guy trinity university pd say they issued harrot a criminal trespass warrant warning on harroton he had been on campus before Keely's death. Quote, we want people to know this person is not welcome back on campus. He was associated with Keely. Now that's from the university spokesperson Sharon Jones Schweitzer. We've increased patrols, increased the university police presence, trying to get the word out to students to be on the lookout. Now, I don't understand what connection, unless he was in the car, what connection he would have to her. Also, listen to this, Cheryl McCollum, an autopsy is being carried out on little Kelly, but the results could take three months.

You know what that means, toxicology. No question. And Nancy, here's what's real critical. You know as well as I do the things that go on on a college campus that the campus police are completely unaware of. If they've already zeroed in on this man, he is well known to them. So that tells me he's been an issue on that campus for a minute. They know him. So again, he's either a drug dealer or he is somebody that has caused major problems on that campus. There's something else I don't understand. Dr. Chloe Carmichael, creator of anxietytools.com, New York psychologist joining us today. Why would her friends, not this guy, why would her friends just drop her at the emergency room and leave her? Why? Well, yes, Nancy, I'm glad you noticed that. It certainly does, you know, just, it's absolutely bizarre. It's kind of the opposite of concern.

It kind of goes with this idea that there's a detachment that doesn't seem normal in a friendship where they just report, oh, she, we've just, we've noticed that she stopped breathing. And so we're just going to drop her off at some random emergency room. The story just isn't adding up. There's something about it that just isn't making sense. Questions swirling. Wait, wait. What, Cheryl?

Go ahead. You and I had a case where these group of friends dropped somebody off at the emergency room at Grady, and they fled. Wait, wait, wait. What makes perfect sense. Wait, wait, wait, wait. What case was that, Cheryl? I don't remember the name of the female, but she OD'd in the car. And all of her friends panicked, thinking we're going to go to jail because we were all doing drugs. They take her to the emergency room to get her help, but they left her.

You know what? I'm glad you reminded me of that, Cheryl, because now I'm remembering it. You know, Cheryl, I've tried so many cases, I cannot even document them all. I'm sure. I've taken, believe it or not, Cheryl, I tried to add it up because I would get about 150 new felonies, all felonies a week, I believe is the way it went. I can't even remember. And then that would be four weeks a month, 12 months a year times 10 i think was the number it's there's so many i can't even remember them

all now cheryl i remember most of the cases i tried but you're right just dumping her off um questions still swirling around the death of this teen cheerleader, Kieli Mondati. Trinity University is saying it's a very close-knit community. Well, if it's this close-knit, why wasn't this guy already kicked off campus? What was he doing there? She's just a sophomore, for Pete's sake. That puts her at about 19 years old. She died on Halloween Day. We know that Trinity sends out this alert to all the students,

and right now, everybody has clammed up. Cheryl McCollum, you're the crime scene expert. You're the Cold Case Institute director. Why is everybody clamming up? See, when everybody gets tight-lipped, that makes me highly suspicious. They know something that they don't want to tell. Otherwise, they'd be talking. So here's one theory. She gets in the car with this guy that's the known drug dealer. They're going to go to Houston to pick up whatever it is that everybody wants for the Halloween party. So she gets in the car with some other folks. They've all got the money from all the other people that won't, let's say, pot. So they get out there. They get the weed. They're on the

way back. They're partying on the way back. Let's say the weed they got's no good. It's got fentanyl in it. She stopped breathing because she has OD. That could be a major issue where everybody says, we got to get rid of the weed. We got to get rid of her. Stump her at the hospital. We're out. You know, what about this idea, Cheryl McCollum, and it's Jackie's idea here in the studio with me. What if they tried to clean out the car? Maybe what if they left for that reason? And again, we don't know this guy is a drug dealer, whether it's steroids, illegal narcotics, whatever. We don't know that. And he has not been charged with that.

We're just trying to figure out what happened to Kelly. I mean, you send your daughter off. You've done all you can do. You finally get them to college where they're going to do well and they're going to get out and have a great job and a happy life. And then this, I mean, I can't even imagine it. You know, I drop my children off in the morning, and I believe I watch them walk in because of Kyron Horman, watch them walk in the door and know that they're safe,

and then I try not to worry about them the rest of the day. Cheryl, you take your children to this great little university, and then your daughter ends up dumped at the ER and dead, Cheryl? It's unfathomable, Nancy. And again, I mean, she's an athlete. She's beautiful. She's clearly intelligent. I mean, she's on that path. She's got the world by the tail, and something has gone terribly wrong. I'm just looking at her and this big, big, beautiful smile. Dr. Chloe Carmichael, I cannot imagine what her parents and family are going through right now. Yes, Nancy, it's really hard to imagine that because this is the time when they were probably working really hard to let themselves let go a little bit. It's not easy for parents to do that. But as you said,

she's a sophomore now. So after you get over that freshman hump, then you parents usually start to relax just a little bit, which is just, you know, so terribly unfortunate here that just as soon as they were probably beginning to feel a little bit comfortable, they got this terrible surprise. And it's really unfortunate, too, because it does sound like there is more to come in terms of surprises. The theory about the idea that they were probably going to get some drugs, doing something that they shouldn't have been, which would explain why the other, you know, young people in the car wanted to try to just drop her off and run away and distance themselves. Not that I'm saying that makes it right for them to do that, but at least for us to understand why they would behave in such a bizarre manner. So the parents,

to your point, Nancy, are probably just in a world of confusion and pain right now. Well, another clue, Cheryl McCollum, is that she was taken to the hospital by the people in the car, a hospital in Luling, before she was transferred to another hospital in Kyle, Texas. And it was later that day she was pronounced dead. So whatever happened to her was not immediate. She was alive when she was dropped at the hospital in Luling. She was alive when she was at the hospital in Kyle, Texas. And it was only hours later that she was pronounced dead.

What indication is that? She wasn't shot. She wasn't strangled dead. Or she would have been, you know, dead much more quickly than that. So what do you think? What does that tell us, that one clue, that time period, Cheryl? Well, they said she was not breathing. So that's probably what they said to the emergency room. Well, that again sounds like a potential overdose. If she was an asthmatic, they would have stayed

with her. They would have called her mom. They would have called sorority sisters. They didn't do that. They dropped her off, which indicates to me they knew something illegal was going to come about. They, you know, they found out in some way. So, you know, whatever she took stopped her from breathing. Well, that doesn't mean they could revive her. So it sounds like to me they got her there and they just could not bring her back. Well, the fact that nobody's talking and they've issued this alert to find this Howerton, there's much more to this story and the death of a gorgeous

young Trinity University cheerleader. We're on it. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart podcast.