Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - HOLLYWOOD SHOCK: Stars, honchos allegedly spend millions in bribes to get rich kids in fancy schools

Episode Date: March 14, 2019

Dozens of wealthy parents, including "Desperate Housewives” star Felicity Huffman and actress Lori Loughlin, face federal felony charges for allegedly paying bribes to get their children into elite colleges. Nancy Grace explores the college entrance scandal with experts, including Jennifer Brovost, co-ounder of NYPEAS (New York Private Education Advisory Service), Mark Jerome, an athletic consultant who guides students who want to play college sports, and Dr. Kim Metcalfe, an educational psychologist and the author of Let’s Build ExtraOrdinary Youth Together. Also on the panel are Atlanta lawyer and juvenile judge Ashley Willcott, and syndicated radio host David Mack. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Breaking news this morning. Celebrities and chief executives are among 50 people arrested in a nationwide college admissions cheating scam. They allegedly paid bribes of up to six million dollars to get their kids into elite colleges. ABC's Aaron Katurski has the latest. Good morning to you. Byron, good morning to you. This is just an incredible scheme that is being prosecuted out of Boston, where court records have just been unsealed, naming dozens of actresses, business leaders, and other parents who allegedly paid

bribes of thousands up to millions of dollars to get their kids into Yale or Stanford or Georgetown or other prominent universities. In a way, Byron, this scheme seems to confirm the worst suspicions of those a little bit jaded by the college admissions process who think it's maybe rigged toward those with money. Federal prosecutors say these bribes were paid to a college admissions coach in California who was also under arrest. And then he would in turn pay off a college athletic coach to dummy up a scholarship or to pay off an SAT administrator to fake test scores. Wow, you are hearing from our friends at ABC. That was Erin Katursky and Byron Pitts talking about a bombshell.

In the last hours, as you all know by now, high-profile actresses across Hollywood have been charged along with one of their husbands in cheating. That's what it boils down to, a massive college cheating scandal. And I just want to start off with this. I remember when I got accepted to Mercer University Law School, and I opened up the letter, and I got down on my knees in the driveway, in the gravel. And I thanked God that I had gotten into law school. And I just remember that moment. Right now, I cried. I was so grateful because having been a crime victim after the murder of my fiance, all I wanted to do was be a prosecutor. It took me seven years from that point on to get into a felony prosecution district attorney's office. And that admission meant the world for me.

And guess who was my recommendation? It was not somebody my parents paid $500,000 to. They've never seen $500,000 in their life. It was my Sunday school teacher, Jeanette Johnson. She wrote my recommendation for me to get into law school. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. This is not a moral issue, or maybe it is a moral issue and a crime, because I'm not in the business of being the church lady. Morality is up to you. That's between you and your maker. This is about an alleged crime, a series of crimes. Joining me, a high profile and all-star lineup. First of all, with me, Jennifer Brovost, co-founder of NYPES, New York Peas,

New York Private Education Advisory Service. Wow, that's a mouthful. She helps parents place their children in the very best schools. And I need to talk to you about John David and Lucy. Of course, they're only in the fifth grade, but it's never too soon, Jennifer. Mark Jerome, athletic consultant. Jerome, an athletic consultant who guides students interested in playing varsity in college sports. Well, my son broke his foot last night, so I guess soccer scholarship's out of the question. Thank you for being with us, Mark. Apparently not. Dr. Kim Metcalf, author of Let's Build Extraordinary Youth Together.

Dr. Metcalf has a doctorate degree in educational development psychology. Another mouthful, and I'm impressed. I don't know what it means, Dr. Metcalfe has a doctorate degree in educational development psychology. Another mouthful. And I'm impressed. I don't know what it means, Dr. Metcalfe, but I'm impressed. David Mack, syndicated talk show host, and also joining me, Ashley Wilcott, judge, lawyer. You can find her at ashleywilcott.com. Dave Mack, I'm stunned. The thought of my favorite, and don't judge me. I watch hardly any TV, but on Sunday nights,

I would take one hour and watch Desperate Housewives. I just couldn't wait to see who was going to get killed next. It was awesome. To find out, Dave Mack, that Felicity Huffman, who we all love

and we feel like we know her, along with Lori Loughlin, who has a squeaky clean image, is charged with paying thousands and thousands of dollars to get their kids into nice schools. What happened, Dave? Just start at the beginning. Very beginning, Nancy, is these high-profile people that we think we know from TV, they're parents just like the rest of us, and they all go through the same stresses and strains when their kids are applying for college. In these cases, we're not talking about children that are not.

Are you kidding? What about just regular grade school for Pete's sake? I freak out every time they have a project. I will never forget dressing John David as Albert Einstein and Lucy as Anne Frank. OK, and working over and over and over on their their delivery of their little speeches. So, you know, it starts a long time before college. Well, you know, if you've ever seen the Adam Sandler movie, Billy Madison, that's what we're dealing with to a large degree. But all of this started with a former high school basketball coach who was fired in 1988, coached on an assistant level in junior college.

His name is William Rick Singer. He's the guy who actually wrote a book called Getting In, Gaining Admission to the College of Your Choice. Now, in that book, I dare say he didn't say, pay me a lot of money and I'll bribe people to accept your child who's not good enough to get into this college. But that's exactly what he did. He actually began this company in 2007 called the Edge College and Career Network, later known as the Key. He incorporated in 2012, and it's since that day, actually 2011-2012 year, where he actually is accused of starting the idea that you pay him, and he will help orchestrate your child going from high school into college. Boy, that's certainly putting perfume on the pig. Orchestrate.

Yeah. Ashley Wilcott, trial lawyer and judge. Ashley is more like bribes, according to the prosecution. And this guy, William Rick Singer, apparently wore a wire and recorded all these phone calls, handed over emails. And of course, if this ever goes to a jury trial, which I doubt, he will be viewed as a rat by the jury. Will that hurt? Yes, but it won't change the evidence, Ashley Wilcott. I mean, orchestrating, more like bribing, according to the prosecution, bribing coaches, admissions people, just all sorts of people. That's right. So people may not like that he wore a wire. They may think poorly of him for doing

that. But the reality is the prosecution is based on evidence that they anticipate being able to present. And the evidence is that, yes, these people paid the children's way into college, that they bribed the college to admit their children who may not have been qualified and met the qualifications to get into that school, but get in because their parents paid a lot of money. I want to go to our guest this morning, Jennifer Brovoz, co-founder of NYP's New York Private Education Advisory Service, helps parents place their children in the very best schools they can. Jennifer, when I first read this about Felicity Huffman and Lori Loughlin, I actually was torn. And you know what a hard liner I am about crime. Because as a mom, I would do almost anything to help my children. Just advance a tiny bit forward. I don't care about their prestige or if they're going to make a lot of money one day.

I care about life being easier for them than it was for me. You know how hard I had to work to get into NYU to get my LLM in constitutional and criminal law after I managed to worm my way in at Mercer? It was hard. I had to work really hard to get into NYU and beat out thousands and thousands of other people. I had no idea you could just pay somebody off. I know, but Nancy, look at what these parents are actually teaching their children. Look at what they're showing them, the kind of adults. Is this the kind of adults that we want to raise lying, cheating, amoral

adults? I mean, college admissions is about teenagers finding themselves, finding the right fit, discovering schools that speak to their passions. And let me just say something. The best school for a kid is not necessarily one of these like four or five high profile names. A kid gets in to one of these schools. They have to be able to perform. They have to be able to stay there. There are so many colleges that have wonderful programs, wonderful things that teach a different child. It's not just about these four or five different colleges. And these parents are not doing their kids any favors in life. This case is about the widening corruption of elite college admissions through the steady application of wealth combined with fraud. There can be no separate college admissions system for the wealthy, and I'll

add that there will not be a separate criminal justice system either. Every year, hundreds of thousands of hardworking, talented students strive for admission to elite schools. As every parent knows, these students work harder and harder every year in a system that appears to grow more and more competitive every year. And that system is a zero-sum game. For every student admitted through fraud, an honest, genuinely talented student was rejected. Wow. You are hearing the Massachusetts U.S. attorney, Andrew Lilling, talking about a widening fraud, scam, bribery, cheating, extortion, $500,000 paid to get two children into elite schools. I was just talking, let me go to Dr. Kim Metcalf, author of Let's Build Extraordinary Youth Together. Dr. Metcalf has a doctorate degree in educational developmental psychology.

With me also, Mark Jerome, athletic consultant who guides students interested in playing varsity and college sports. We know that was part of this scam as well. Coaches allegedly paid off for kids to get fake spots on teams at school. They never showed up for practice or faked an injury, but they got into school. And Jennifer Brovos, founder of New York Peas, New York Private Education Advisory Service, Dave Mack, syndicated talk show host, and Ashley Wilcott, lawyer and judge. Dr. Metcalf, what I was saying earlier, and I don't think I was saying it very well I bet you and Mark Jerome and Jennifer Brovos can say it a lot better but I remember working three jobs during law school and law review which is a job in itself and trying to make good grades and trying to pass the bar

and trying to afford prep classes for the bar and just every my books one time I almost cried I didn't because I thought the check was going to bounce for the bar, and my books. One time I almost cried. I didn't because I thought the check was going to bounce for the books because my student loan, which I paid off, didn't quite cover everything. And I don't want that for my children. I want to give them every advantage I can, everything, so they won't have to do what I had to do, just like my parents. My mom would go out and pick pecans and turnips and bag them up in a string from my grandfather, put on the back of a truck and sell at the farmer's

market. And some anonymous donor sent her through 12 years of music classes, culminating at the first college for women in the world, Wesleyan College. So we had to work for it. I don't want my children to work that hard, Dr. Metcalf. But bribing and cheating, what if my children found out I bribed and cheated people to get them into school? Well, your main goal as a parent is to make sure that your kids are resilient and they can make it through the ups and downs in life. And the truth is that if you don't qualify on your own merit to get into a college and your parents pay, and I understand that some of the kids were in on the scam,

I'm not, and some of them didn't know about it. So I'm not really certain of, you know, if there were really kids in on the scam. But if you want your children to be able to go through the long haul in life, in which they're going to have lots of disappointments, then you have to let them face certain situations that are very, very trying because you get them to persist. You're building emotional skills in them. So I mean, I've been following you for a long time, Nancy. And when the twins were first born, actually, I just want to apologize for everything I've done wrong right up front. I don't know if one apology can cover it all. Yeah, the twins are just the world to me. And I don't want them to have to work as hard as I did and my mom and dad did.

But you do want them to succeed in life. You do want them to grow up to be productive, ethical human beings that have a strong moral compass, who can ride the bumps in life and come out unscathed or even stronger than before they hit the bump resilience is the name of the game i would just be so afraid i'd get busted and be humiliated in front of my children to mark jerome athletic consultant he guides students interested in varsity college sports in every aspect they need to know to continue playing as well as being in the quote right school for them. I remember when my sister who was valedictorian she majored in oh let's see

accounting with also a double major in German and a specialty in chemistry. Let's just say she's brilliant. I remember when she got into the Wharton School, and she went on to be the first woman on tenure track teaching at Wharton in risk management insurance. We were so proud because nothing like that had ever happened to our family, ever. My father would just cry when he would tell people. We were just so proud. They never finished college and had a hard scrabble life and this was just the you know the ultimate mark jerome you and jennifer

and dr metcalf have had to have seen parents just like this willing to do anything even break the law how did the scam work to your understanding you're the athletic consultant because from what i'm learning they would there's actually been one coach i think it was a crew coach somewhere that has been fired uh already a female coach but how do you how does this work in in this scam how would it work mark jerome well i want to i want to go back something and just you resurrected some some of my feelings and thoughts about me receiving when you talked about yourself getting into law school how when I received my scholarship offer to play college basketball and it was such an incredible great feeling um because I had worked so hard and

I remember my son recently getting his college scholarship to a college to a division one college basketball for division one college basketball at a prominent school. And when I got off the phone with the coach, I screamed, jumped, cried. It was like I had hit the lotto. So I completely get those feelings that you have and your sister had. As my understanding is, several coaches are either have been fired or on leave right now. And it sounds like I understand the form, well, now the former Yale woman soccer coach

received $400,000 from Singer after he took, I guess Singer paid the Yale soccer coach $400,000 after he took $1.2 million from a family and he distributed it to this soccer coach and possibly among others as well. But this has been going on for a while, and also it doesn't just start at the college level. It starts at young ages,

and I think there's a trend amongst very wealthy people where they want to be so protective of their kids and where the status is so important and valuable to them that they're willing to do anything and everything to say that my kid goes to Princeton or my kid goes to Harvard or my kid goes to whatever prominent school that they want to push for their kids to attend and be accepted. But Mark, Mark, Dr. Kim, Metcalf, Jennifer Brovos, Dave Mack, Ashley Wilcott,

if you can buy your way into a school, I mean, what good is it? What good is the school? What good is the school? What good is the system? How could the school not know about this? How could they get somebody in on a crew scholarship and then repeatedly over and over, people don't show up, they drop out of crew, they fake an injury? Doesn't anybody notice a pattern, Mark, after a certain point? There are different methods, and different schools have different policies. So for an Ivy League school, there are no scholarships, no athletic scholarships. So you can have your roster can be as large as you want, and if somebody decides I got into the school and drops off the team, who cares? It doesn't really matter.

So some schools also have walk-on spots. school and drops off the team who cares ah it doesn't really matter so they're also there are some schools also have walk-on spots there was a big story yesterday that broke out i don't know how big the story is a former penn university of penn coach was fired but during pre a couple years ago during his reign at upenn and he was a former player there as well former standout player he was a key i think i believe he accepted three300,000 in cash to recruit a kid that wasn't qualified to be on the end of the bench. And so when the kid got there, he wasn't qualified to play. He was either let go of the team or he resigned,

but it didn't matter because the kid was already in the school. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. We're here today to announce charges in the largest college admissions scam ever prosecuted by the Department of Justice. We've charged 50 people nationwide with participating in a conspiracy that involved first, cheating on college entrance exams, meaning the SAT and the ACT, and second, securing admission to elite colleges by bribing coaches at those schools to accept certain students under false pretenses. In return for bribes, these coaches agreed to pretend that certain applicants

were recruited competitive athletes when in fact the applicants were not. As the coaches knew, the students' athletic credentials had been fabricated. Bribes totaling $25 million. And let me just confess, before I was a state prosecutor of felony crimes, I was a fed. I was a fed for three years. One year as a judicial law clerk in the federal court and two years doing antitrust and consumer protection with the Federal Trade Commission. Let me tell you something. The feds don't play. They will not. It used to drive me insane. They will not move on a case until they have about a room full of paper proving the case,

which will bore a jury out of their skull, but it proves the case. They will have everybody wired. They will have photos from a satellite for pete's sake they got it all when the feds come after you get you know what you might as well just lay down and play doormat it's over and here's the other thing dave mack isn't it true that when they arrested felicity huffman everybody in the house was asleep her and her husband who's also a famous star movie star star, as a matter of fact. The two girls are there, and they came bamming on the door and pulled their guns. Is this true, Dave Mack?

Yes, ma'am. Six o'clock in the morning, and they woke up the entire house. As you said, William H. Macy is Felicity Huffman's husband. He and the girls were both asleep. Felicity Huffman comes downstairs. They were aware this was coming down, but they didn't know that the feds were going to show up at their door with guns drawn. Now, they did this all throughout when they were serving these arrest warrants. And the feds showed up.

There were six that showed up at Felicity Huffman's house. Guns drawn, greeted her at the door, you know, and pulled the felony stop. Well, I don't know that I would say greeted her. Ashley Wilcott, lawyer and judge at AshleyWilcott.com. Ashley, you're in the middle of getting your children to the very schools. You've got three plus a rabbit. And I don't know how many other animals are living at that house. But that's a whole other can of worms.

I really don't have a leg to stand on with a cat, a dog, and two guinea pigs. Plus my mother. So there's a lot happening in our houses. But here's the deal, you're a judge you know the deal if they arrested everybody else in the same manner and did not have their guns with Felicity Huffman's house they would have been trashed for preferential treatment you know that right so yes it seems overkill, but you have to treat everybody the same way. And really, that's what this prosecution is all about, I think, Ashley. Absolutely. They have to treat everyone the same way. First of all, 50 people have been named. There are probably more out

there who haven't been identified, number one. Excuse me, number two. Here's the thing I question, though. Did they really have their guns drawn with all 50? Did they really? If they did, then it should have been in this case. But I would submit, is that really the way that it's handled when they arrest? Or do they start peacefully? Well, I can answer that. Let me Q&A with myself for a moment.

Yes, because when you are going into a home, you don't know what's going to happen. You don't know if somebody in there is going to mistake you for a burglar and shoot you dead. You don't know what's going to happen. I remember in my first year as a felony prosecutor, I befriended a cop. He'd just gotten married, Schepani. He pulled over a kid for a traffic violation. The kid shot him in the face, dead. Bam.

You never know what's going to happen. I remember my investigator, Ernest, grabbing me by the shoulders and both of us diving off of a porch because we were delivering subpoenas in a triple murder case. And we knocked on the door. He saw it first. I saw it second. The barrel of a shotgun pointed right at us through a screen door. It was bright on the outside and dark on the inside. Yeah, it happens. You darn right. That's how that goes. But, you know, we're talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars. And when I think about all the people I've tried to help get scholarships and get placed, and here, basically, you just pay it off. One person accused of $500,000 thousand dollar payoffs not felicity huffman i noticed that her husband um has not been charged

but she has interesting to jennifer provost co-founder of new york peas new york private education advisory service what do you tell parents when they're like out of their mind to get their child in the most elite school and they're willing to do anything, even break the law to get it done? Well, my company does not work with families who want to break the law. I mean, that's not something that we do. I definitely encourage families who want to go to specific schools to have their kids do things that might make them look better in their applications. I work with kids to help them if they need help on their college essays. I encourage them to apply to different colleges.

Maybe they have early decision, which really gives you a leg up if you apply to a college early decision or early action. But it's true. Families are frantic. Parents will do anything to get their kids into these schools. But, you know, the kinds of things that these people did are just they're just so unethical and immoral and really pretty disgusting that it's, it's just not how we work. And it's, it's just not something that we encourage. I guess you have to talk a lot of parents off the ledge, off the ledge because they're, they'll basically try anything.

You know, we now know that one coach at Yale has already been fired. Listen. In one example, the head women's soccer coach at Yale, in exchange for $400,000, accepted an applicant as a recruit for the Yale women's team, despite knowing that the applicant did not even play competitive soccer. The student was in fact admitted and afterward the students family paid Singer 1.2 million dollars for that service. In addition to the standardized test scam and the college admissions scam, Singer also arranged for someone to take online high school

classes in place of certain students so that those students could submit higher grades as part of their overall college application package. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Ashley Wilcott, judge and lawyer and anchor, weigh in. Here's what I want to say, Nancy. Yes, parents do anything for their children if they're good parents. You do anything for your children. I do anything for my children, but not without integrity. So there's the line, right? A parent should do anything for their children as long as they have integrity. It doesn't mean cheating. It doesn't mean bribing. It doesn't mean I've got money, so I'm going to pay to get them in where I want to get them in. That is not good parenting. You know, Felicity Huffman starred in the ABC hit series Desperate Housewives, and Lothlin, Aunt Becky in Full House, and now Fuller House,

now facing charges of conspiracy to commit mail fraud and honest services mail fraud. I'm telling you, it's hard to beat that in court. It's really hard. Who else has been charged, Dave Mack? And I understand that in one of these cases a proctor somebody who administers the sat was paid to go in and correct felicity huffman's daughter's test well in that go in and correct to put all the answers and then in the other case the mom paid five hundred thousand dollars to get her kids in school. What? Well, you know, when you look at

what you were just talking about with Felicity Huffman's SAT or ACT, they actually, she scored over a thousand on the first time she took it. That wasn't high enough. So they went and paid this proctor to give her an additional time in taking the test. And then after she left, the proctor actually corrected the answer so that she improved her score to over 1400 on the SAT. Those are the types of people we're talking about. And there were four of those in that first 50, four people who were actually administered, they're called proctors, those who actually overview the SAT and ACT testing. They are accused of taking money to change scores, to change answers, rather, on those tests. The others that are involved in this, again, the coaches who actually said that

different young individuals were being recruited for sports because athletes have lower requirements for getting into these colleges, which is, again, something to talk about. They can get much lower ACT or SAT scores. They can get much lower GPAs and be admitted as athletes. That's why these coaches, in particular, the crew coach at USC, that's why you've got a problem there. We're still waiting because according to what I'm seeing, Nancy, there's going to be a number of other high, high profile people, not necessarily actors and actresses, but a number of rich business people who, again, they see their own success through their children and are willing to throw character out the window. And it's shocking.

I had three kids in college at the same time, Nancy, and all the way through, our whole goal was make sure you know why you're there, what you want to get out of it, because this is your life, not mine. The head sailing coach at Stanford University at federal court on his way to plead guilty to charges in a bombshell college admissions cheating scandal. Federal prosecutors say 50 people, including Hollywood actresses and college coaches, are charged in what's being billed as the biggest college admissions cheating scandal they've ever seen. They say wealthy people spent millions to rig the system so their kids could get into elite colleges and universities. There can be no separate college admission system for the wealthy, and I'll add that there will not be a separate criminal justice system either. Federal agents arrested dozens in an operation they called Varsity Blues, involving many elite colleges, including Georgetown, Stanford, UCLA,

University of San Diego, the University of Southern California, the University of Texas at Austin, Wake Forest, and Yale. Oh man, that's like a dagger to my heart. Those are schools that I dream of one day my twins getting into, but I can't afford $500,000 to pay people off to get them in. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. And you were just listening to our friend Sherman Cicchetti at WHDH-TV reporting from Boston on a major, major legal bombshell. Right now, over 50 people involved, but the net is widening. With me, Jennifer Brovost, Mark Jerome, Dr. Kim Metcalf, Dave Mack, Ashley Wilcott, to Mark Jerome,

renowned athletic consultant, guiding students interested in playing college sports. Now I get it, okay? They didn't all also say their child was an athlete, and they weren't trying for scholarships. Some were just paying off admissions, according to the feds. Others were saying, well, my child is in crew. So that gives them an added edge to get in, not necessarily a scholarship. So, Mark Jerome, we just heard that a coach at Yale has been fired. How would it work? I mean, so Rick Singer, the mastermind of all this, who later wore a wire to ensnare all of these moms and dads, what would he go to the coach and say, I've got a great kid, I'll make it worth

your while? I mean, I could just hear it playing out, Mark Jerome. I'm not privy to all the details, how this went down. But based on information I've had in the past or other stories I've heard, it really does start. It goes way beyond. It starts earlier than college. It starts in high school. It starts in middle school where parents pay to have their kids play on certain teams on

certain high level or high with with lots of exposure on on youth teams that travel around just again for the status without any integrity and what happens to the kids when they fail so i don't know um how everything what the process I mean, I know that you have helped steer people as a consultant to get on a team at a school to say you would probably qualify for this school or this team or that team. And I'm sure you talk to coaches. I mean, I wonder how they smell out a coach that's willing to take a bribe. That's a big bribe, $400,000.

It is. That is a lot of money. You know, Mark Jerome, don't judge me, but there's always a but, right? My children both play soccer. My son, he had a head injury when he was about three. So I don't want him to play football. The other day, he threw a football in the front yard. My heart hurt. He has an arm like a bullet. But it's not worth another head injury. So he plays soccer, no head injury. She plays soccer.

He plays basketball. And my husband's all freaked out about missing a practice. I'm like, it's not like they're getting a scholarship, David. It's not like they're playing in the World Cup next week for Pete's sake. It's local peewee soccer. All right. It's just so they get exercise and run around. What is that?

The wrong attitude? I'm smiling ear to ear. Mark, this is for you. I'm smiling ear to ear, listening to you, listening to the domestic battle about the intensity and the level of intensity and commitment young kids should be having to sports at such a young age. And I go through this question almost every day from parents. And I don't – and also the question becomes should kids be doing – committed to one sport. But it starts early.

It's so competitive. It's incredibly competitive just as trying to get into any school's so competitive. It's incredibly competitive, just as trying to get into any school is so competitive. Scholarships are competitive because there are so few of them. So what's at stake is so huge and so large that people are willing to do anything. Well, some people are willing to do anything, including compromising any type of integrity to help get their kids into schools. And listen, my kids started when they were very young. I pushed them hard when they were young. Uh-oh, I think you are judging me.

I'm not judging you at all. I think you're judging me because I'm not serious about peewee soccer. I'm not judging you. Yes, I hear it. It's just oozing from every word. I'm not judging. Laugh, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. Your kid will be like at Stanford on some team and mine will be at, you know, local community college eking it out, hoping he makes the B.

Dave Maxey's indicated talk show host. Let me ask you a question. What exactly are the allegations against the two actresses? Well, with regard to Felicity Huffman, she's accused of giving this William Rick Singer $15,000 to pay a proctor to adjust the SAT score of her daughter, which went from a 1020 score to a 1420 score. The charges against Lori Loughlin, a little more serious and a lot more money. She's accused she and her husband, who is a famous designer. I'd never heard of him. They're accused of spending a half million dollars to. I don't think anyone would ever accuse you of wearing designer clothes, David. No, not at all. You know what? There is an interesting twist here. Gordon Ernst was the Georgetown tennis coach from 2012 to 2017.

You might have heard of him because he was the private instructor for Michelle Obama and Sasha and Malia. He's accused of getting $3 million in bribes to get students onto the Georgetown tennis team. And now they're not accusing him of being involved with sasha malia or anything but there's a direct tie there with michelle obama and gordon ernst back to um laughlin for a minute a half million dollars and here's the difference you guys were talking about the fed showing up with guns drawn well she's working in vancouver shooting fuller house or something they're allowing her to fly back in and turn herself in so that even ste even Stephen pulling guns on everybody at 6 in the morning, not pulling off for her.

They did get her husband, and he had to put their house up for grabs as part of getting them bonded out, or bailed out, rather. So we're looking at a half million dollars that they're accused of giving this guy to help get her daughter, who is a YouTube star named Olivia Jade, who last year, when she was talking about her flippant attitude about college, caught a lot of online grief. If you want to go, you can watch those videos. I don't encourage it. You will lose IQ points just by watching her videos. But the bottom line is these rich and famous people are accused of doing what most of us expect rich and famous people to do,

skirt all the rules the rest of us have to play by. This is not a case where parents were acting in the best interests of their children. This is a case where they flaunted their wealth, sparing no expense to cheat the system so they could set their children up for success with the best education money could buy, literally. Some spent anywhere from $200,000 to $6.5 million for guaranteed admission. Their actions were, without a doubt, insidious, selfish, and shameful. Wow. That's FBI Special Agent in Charge Joseph Bonavolanta talking to the press. Selfish and shameful. I mean, it's a flat out bribe to Ashley Wilcott, judge and lawyer. Explain why this is not a white lie, why this is actually alleged to be a federal crime. Because Nancy, under the definition, there was an exchange of something of value, money in this case, to reap a benefit that was not, you know, under a contract, but instead for gain inappropriately.

It's illegal. It's then a bribe. You know, to Jennifer Brovos, co-founder of New York Peas, P-E-A-S. It is a private education advisory service to help parents place their children in the best schools that they can get them into. You know, Jennifer, it hurt me when I heard this. I was stunned because, you know, when you watch people on TV, you think you know them kind of. They're in your home every night and you get a feel for what you think their personality is and you grow attached to them you know i i do at the end of monk i had to go lay down i've just got to tell you i just couldn't take it um but jennifer this is a huge huge black eye to yours and mark's and dr metcalf's business

it's like you could just buy your way into any school. It's not about merit. The Ivy Leagues mean nothing. I mean, when I got into NYU, true, it's not an Ivy League. I couldn't believe it. And I had struggled, you know, tried so hard to get into Mercer. And I, as I said, got down on my knees and prayed. Thank God I got into Mercer Law School. But it's all like, it means nothing if you can just pay your way in like a movie ticket, Jennifer. Well, first of all, I want to say I also went to NYU and it might not have been an Ivy League school, but it is a school where I found a voice. I found passion and it made me... I loved it.

I loved it too. I mean, I grew up in a small suburb and I got to move to the city and really found myself at that school. And so when I talk about, you know, going to one of these like five elite schools that are on this list, there are so many different colleges that are going to speak to so many different kids. In this case, I feel really bad for all the children, my son included. I'm going through the college process with him right now, who work really hard, who spent weekends studying for their ACTs, trying to get their scores up, who took the time to research colleges and find different programs that speak to them and worked hard and went

to their teachers and really talked to them about, you know, how they could get their grades up and what they could do extracurricular wise. And it's just, it makes a mockery to all of these kids who are sitting around right now because regular decisions are coming out at the beginning of April. And these kids are probably sitting here going, what did I do? Why aren't my parents just buying my way into school? Because I really want to go to this school. It's just such a terrible precedent for everyone.

It's a terrible... It's awful. Yeah. And you know what's happening tonight? Tonight, tonight, after soccer practice for Lucy, well, John David broke his foot. He can't go. After choir practice, after the family night supper at the church, we are going,

and it's going to be way past our bedtime, for our first Boy Scout. And soon, Lucy will be on the same train to try to make Eagle or Silver Scout. And they went, what is it, Mom? Now he's in 4-H, but we don't have that here. And so we're doing Scouts. I said, because you learn so much and you meet new people and you learn how to camp and you learn this and you learn that. And one day, one day when you're trying to get into a fancy school,

they're going to see Eagle Scout, and you might get in. And then this hits. I think about what I'm putting my children through and all of our hopes and our dreams, and it's very hurtful, Dr. Metcalf. Well, remember something. You're giving your kids the best gift. And even though it seems like a lot of these people have bought their kids' way into a prestigious college, the bottom line is they have not done their kids any favors. Those of us that stay on the ethical line, we are helping our kids in the long run. There is nothing in the world like working really hard for something

and achieving it. And Nancy, you and another one of the panelists were saying how great you felt when you were accepted. Imagine finding out that you weren't really accepted. Your parents bought your way in. You never have to think about that. You did it on your own. That is the greatest gift we give our kids. It really is. I don't know why, Ashley, that made me tear up, because, you know, you're a Girl Scout leader, so you know what's involved in being a Silver Scout or an Eagle Scout, and it's for that learning that you do all that for the girls and for the Boy Scouts. But I did.

I told them, I said, you keep working, and maybe by the time you're a senior in high school, you'll be an Eagle Scout, because now the girls can be Eagle Scouts just like the boys. They think it used to be called Silver Scout. And then one day, somebody in admissions is going to see that, and you're going to get in because you worked so hard. And actually, it just makes me feel sick that I've told them all that. And then this happens. All that hard work, literally years,

they're just, you know, along with your girl, they're just in the fifth grade. That would be fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth, tenth, eleventh, twelfth, eight years of hard work to try to impress somebody in admissions when these parents are just writing a check. And I think I understand completely the reason you teared up, Nancy, because now not only do I have a conversation with my children about hard work pays off, and these are things that can help you get into college. Now I've had to have the conversation, including last night with my high school freshman about, hey, it isn't okay to take the short, easy road. It's not okay to pay your way because the conversation now is, well, why am

I working so hard when other people aren't? So we have to take this opportunity to educate our kids about hard work does pay off. But also I'm relieved that they've caught some people to prosecute because I have no doubt this is not the first time that's happened. But to actually have evidence to prosecute could help put an end to it, Nancy. And that's what we need to see. And I could just analyze the feelings of a mom. And I noticed that Macy, William Macy, the husband, has not been charged. Felicity Huffman's husband.

Just that feeling of willing to do anything, you know, to help them advance in the world. You know, I had the children late in life, and I'm not going to be here to help them for the rest of their lives, like a lot of other parents are going to be there well into their 40s and their 50s. I'm not. And I want to do everything I can to help them now. But this is just, oh, it's just a dark, dark day. I want to thank Jennifer Brovost, co-founder of New York Private Education Advisory Service, Mark Jerome, a renowned athletic consultant who guides students interested in playing varsity and college sports to find the right school for them. Dr. Kim Metcalf, author of Let's Build Extraordinary Youth Together. Dave Maxson, a talk show host. Ashley Wilcott, trial

lawyer, judge, anchor at ashleywilcott.com. howard in the studio alan duke joining me from la we'll see where this goes i've got a feeling this is just the beginning nancy grace crime story signing off goodbye friend this is an iheart podcast