Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Hollywood Star Wife Shot Dead After Online Nudie Scam Plus: Shocking Testimony In Comedian Bill Cosby Sex Assault Trial

Episode Date: April 19, 2018

Robert Blake has a new wife and is a free man despite accusations he murdered his previous wife. The "Barretta" actor was found not guilty more than a decade ago, but Nancy Grace revisits the case in her new A&E show "Grace vs. Abrams" airing Thursday. Grace previews the show with reporter Alexis Tereszcuk and lawyer Mickey Sherman. Grace also discusses the re-trail of Bill Cosby on sex assault charges. She is joined by psycho analyst Dr. Bethany Marshall, lawyer Anne Bremner, and Juvenile Judge Ashley Willcott. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. I'm Nancy Grace and you are listening to the Triumph Channel Sirius XM 132. Will this guy ever go away? Accused of his wife's murder. This Hollywood star has just remarried and living the sweet life. I'm talking about Robert Blake, the star of Beretta, star

in the film In Cold Blood, Metro Golden Mares, Our Gang, The Little Rascals, Red Rider, Lost Highway, you name it. Robert Blake keeping a low profile but living the sweet life after he escapes charges of murder of his wife, Bonnie Lee Bakley. Joining me right now, oh, and tune in tonight on A&E, 11 o'clock p.m. Eastern Time, as Dan and I go at it on Grace vs. Abrams to get to the truth of what really happened.

Alexis Tereschuk joining me right now from RadarOnline.com. Alexis, what happened the night Bonnie Lee Bakley was shot in the face? She and Robert had dinner at a restaurant in the Valley, which is Los Angeles. And it's Vitello's old school Italian restaurant booths inside. Everybody who was anybody went there. It was a super popular restaurant. They leave the restaurant. They go outside to the car, which is parked around the corner, which is a little strange because it's a little bit off the beaten track on the side of that street. You mean he parks the car instead of the parking lot right up front?

After he says he's worried about his wife's safety, he instead parks in a dark alley behind the restaurant? Exactly. Okay, go ahead. His version of the story is, oh, my gosh, I forgot that I left my gun in this restaurant recently, so I'm going to go back inside the restaurant and get my gun. So he leaves, goes back inside. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait. So they eat dinner.

They have the Robert Blake special, which I think is pasta with prosciutto and tomato. They then go back to the dark alley parking spot with the car windows rolled down. He takes the keys so she can't roll them up he goes back in to get his what his gun said he left his gun he accidentally leaves a 38 caliber revolver at the booth. Okay. And let me understand this, Alexis. When he goes back to get the gun he left behind, nobody saw a gun, right? Not a busboy, not a waiter, not a waitress, nobody.

Nor did they see him come in to check for the gun. Is that right? That's exactly right. So his version is, I went back to check for the gun. Is that right? That's exactly right. So his version is, I went back inside to get my gun. While he was inside, someone, not Robert, says Robert, shoots his wife two times in this alleyway in a neighborhood. This is not some seedy neighborhood. This is a really nice area of Los Angeles.

This is a really nice area of Los Angeles. This is basically homes. Alexis, Alexis, Alexis, I'm all happy about the nice neighborhood, okay? But can I get back to the murder? So while he's in Vitello's, his stomping grounds, his favorite restaurant, they even have a dish named after him. While he's going in there, nobody sees to get the gun that nobody notices sitting in the booth. She gets murdered in that 10-minute window. And when he gets back out, he finds her dead and the killer gone.

All happening within a 10-minute window. Is that right? That's exactly right. Okay. Mickey Sherman, defense lawyer, author of How Can You Defend Those People. Why did this guy walk free? Okay, I was out there doing coverage on this thing for another network. And the question was asked of me by the anchor. Well, if he didn't kill her, who did?

And my response was so appropriate that they pasted it on the wall in the CBS news area down there. And that is that there was a sign-up sheet at the police department for all those people in L.A. who wanted to kill Bonnie Lee Bakley. Now, I know that's rather mean-spirited. Who was lining up to kill Bonnie Lee Bakley? Okay, all right. other mean spirit. Who was lining up to kill Bonnie Lee Bakley? She had ripped off so many people. So many people she ripped off. That's not true. That is not true.

Alexis Tereschuk, Mickey sure may call it ripping off. Some other people would describe it as art. True. Bonnie Lee Bakley would take topless photos of herself and send them to sad sack lovelorns all across the country. They would send her money. It was a scam.

Okay. Do you really think one of these guys, Alexis, is there any proof whatsoever that she was being stalked? That she got a threat? That anyone threatened violence ever. You want me to believe that somebody traveled across the country on a Greyhound bus, finds her at her husband's favorite restaurant, and in a 10-minute window, kills her after he has said he's angry at her, it's caught on tape, that she got pregnant without his consent no the only person that committed this crime was robert blake he is the only person the prosecution tried him they they had so many reasons

why he was the person that killed his wife that could not have been anybody else it wasn't some guy that she scanned with her topless photos it wasn't some jilted lover from before it wasn't anybody that she enraged she even tried to blame blame marlon brando's son christian because they had been dating and at one point she thought baby rosie was actually christian brando's daughter and had named her i think christian brando or had named her after Brando. When she got a DNA, a paternity test, she found out the baby was Robert Blake's baby and renamed the baby Rosie, Rosie Blake. And as a matter of fact, Christian Brando was in, I believe it was upstate Washington.

Didn't he also do 10 years for his homicide? He did. Yes, Christian Brando. I think he did seven years for shooting his, Christian Brando's sister, boyfriend, who was beating his sister. He shot him, dagged her away. He did some time on voluntary manslaughter. I think seven out of 10. his sister. He shot him, dagged her away. He did some time on voluntary manslaughter. At the time of Bonnie Lee Bakley's murder,

Brando, Marlon Brando's son, was out of the state. It wasn't him. And again, back to that 10-minute window, and Robert Blake was the one that got lassoed into marriage, not Christian Brando. Okay?

As a matter of fact, take a listen to the victim, Bonnie Lee Bakley's sister, who spoke with me on HLN the night of the not guilty verdict where Blake walked free. I was in shock. I was devastated. I just don't know how they came to that conclusion. Maybe it's just more obvious to me because of, you know, talking to my sister so much and for so long and hearing all the threats. And, you know, he promised he was going to do it and he did it. And he said he'd get away with it.

And he did. I guess this is just the final time I can be hurt by him. And also, listen to this. Who killed Bonnie Lee Bakley? It's as plain as the nose on your face, Dan Abrams. It was her husband. They could not put that gun in Robert Blake's hands. There were a lot of other people who had a motive to kill Bonnie Lee Bagley.

Give me one name. One name of a person. That's the beauty of our legal system, Nancy. I don't know any names. When you just need reasonable doubt, you don't have to give a name. That's Dan Abrams and I going at it. You know, I just don't like the way the victim has been dragged through the mud. You know, it's as if, you know, think of the worst thing you've ever done, Alexis Tereszczuk.

The worst thing. Don't tell me out loud, please. I don't want to hear it. But what if that were plastered on every newspaper, on every Internet site, and the world knew the single worst thing you think you've ever done? Because that's what's happened to Bonnie Lee Bakley, Alexis, in death. And the thing is that Robert has just mocked her death for almost 20 years now. And, in fact, he is now remarried to another woman,

the woman who testified about the case. Tonight, Grace versus Abrams on A&E, 11 p.m. Eastern. Please join us. And then write me at crimeonline.com and tell me what you think. A&E, 11 p.m. Eastern tonight. I'll see you there, friend. and three-time author Josh Melberg has been released. This book reveals little-known truths about annuity strategies in simple-to-understand terms. Grab a pen right now because we are about to offer you this free book that unlocks the five little-known secrets we believe baby boomers

and seniors should know before buying an annuity. Call 800-835-0176 now and you'll receive a free copy of Josh Melberg's book, Next Gen Annuity Strategies Revealed. As a bonus, we'll also send you a copy of The Number One Mistakes, Next Gen Annuity Strategies Revealed. As a bonus, we'll also send you a copy of The Number One Mistakes Retirees Are Making With Their Investments Today and a free DVD on how you can get up to 33% more income in retirement. Call 800-835-0176 now. Again, that's 800-835-0176. Employees of J.D. Melberg Financial have the appropriate licenses for the products they offer. America's, quote, funny man, quote, Bill Cosby back in court. How many women say he raped or molested them?

I mean, if even just one of them is telling the truth, why isn't he behind bars? Why has he been walking free, acting, charading as a philanthropist? Why? Because I guarantee you, if it were Alan Duke or Vincent Hill or anybody else, they'd be under the jail with this many women saying rape. Uh-uh. N-O. And to boot, nearly everyone claimed he slipped him a roofie of some sort, the date rape drug, and they passed out. And they wake up feeling sticky and yucky and their private parts, some of them aching, having vague recollections of the American icon comedian Bill Cosby walking around in

nothing but a house robe. Okay, that made me actually feel nauseous just for a little bit. No woman should ever feel this way. I don't know how many rape and molestation victims I have represented to the very, very best of my ability. And you probably don't know how many women may be sitting in the room with you right now or molested or raped. Most women never speak of it. Even women that know better.

Even women that talk about rape statistics have something in their past they don't want to confront. We're talking about Bill Cosby and all the women that have come forward now. Is there strength in numbers? Well, we'll find out because Cosby is sitting in a court of law. I want you to take a listen to the first so-called supermodel that I spoke with, one of the outspoken Cosby victims, Janice Dickinson. Now, let me warn you, it ain't pretty. Rape never is. Listen. I can't breathe because of Bill Cosby. What do you mean? I can't breathe because I haven't slept in weeks.

And, you know, I just, you know, with everything that's going on, I haven't been able to breathe like the whole nation is doing right now protesting. I am protesting because of the the unresolved issues due to rape from Bill Cosby. I'm just starting to exhale and and I will say this I you know I sobbed all weekend, not just for me, for what's going on with these other women. I'm in huge gratitude to the Los Angeles Police Department, you know. Thank you, guys and gals out there. You know, it's about time that this guy gets his cup up and... Supermodel Janice Dickinson stating in court her anger and disgust at being allegedly raped by America's dad, Bill Cosby,

after she loses consciousness when she says the actor gives her a, quote, small blue pill that he said would help her with menstrual pain. Okay, you know what, Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst out of LA, I don't need any help with my menstrual pain. I'll take a baby aspirin and I'll keep on chugging. You know what, I could have cramps all the way during a homicide trial, but I didn't think twice about it because you know, what choice do you have except to keep going? And I'm telling you this much it'd be a cold day in he double l before I take a pill from some guy that had designs on me I mean but

how does this go down Dr. Bethany how does it go down like this how does it happen well you know it's interesting because when I was hearing that that he gave her a pill for her menstrual cramps I thought wow it got so personal so quickly. And I think that's what these offenders do. They start to insinuate themselves into the woman's life with really inappropriate, intimate conversation. And I would love to have been a fly on the wall at that dinner, but I imagine he was bringing up sexual topics, women's issues, things like that. You know, Nancy, how he got in touch with Janice in the first place, he contacted her agent saying that he wanted to help her with her career. He flew her into Tahoe.

I mean, the grooming process was extensive to try to get access to her. She didn't contact him. He contacted her. You know, another thing, Ann Bremner joining me, high profile lawyer out of Seattle, Ashley Wilcott, juvenile judge, victims advocate, lawyer and founder of childcrimewatch.com with us, Vincent Hill, private investigator, and Alan Duke joining me from LA, Jackie Howard in Atlanta. To you, Ann Bremner, everyone acts like, how did she think he was going to, quote, help her in her career? What a line of BS. That's not true, Ann, because I had somebody help me. I had a guy who is now in heaven, Dr. William Suttles, who was the president of Georgia State University. And he also was a divinity major and was a Ph.D.

and was a pastor at a small Baptist church in Senoi, Georgia. OK, he rode like a circuit rider. He'd go there once a month and preach. at a small Baptist church in Senoi, Georgia. Okay? He rode like a circuit rider. He'd go there once a month and preach. He also happened to be best friends with my now husband's grandparents who were farmers, and they would repay him for his preaching

with baskets and bags of produce like butter beans and collard greens. He, when I got out of law school, knew I was a crime victim. And I had been trying to get on at the DA's office for so long. Just so happened, guess who came to his Sunday school class once a month? The elected district attorney. And he ambushed him and he said, just interviewer. I got the interview. I got the job. And you know what? Never once ever did anything untoward happen. He was like a

grandfather to me. So you know what? It does happen. And I really resent. Now I've got to say that was one of the few times that a man has shown a genuine and innocent philanthropic interest in helping me. It's only happened a couple of times, but it has happened, Ann Bremner. It does happen. So why shouldn't she trust him? Well, absolutely. And of course, he found a gem in you, Nancy, as we all know. But, you know, I look at this, I actually represent a victim out here in Seattle of Bill Cosby, but she's just not really inclined to get into all of this. But she had the exact same experience of, I want to help you with your career. She was a model in Los Angeles. I want to help you with school. I want to speak at your graduation, all those kinds

of things. And she believed him. She trusted him. And like you, Nancy, I worked, I clerked for a judge and I worked for a wonderful prosecutor, Norm Malay, and my judge was Judge Dixon, two of my biggest mentors, and then Tom Fry in my firm. All men, had no designs, wonderful people, wonderful mentors that helped me tremendously. So I think it's happened to all of us where there were no designs whatsoever. And why would you think there would be when somebody has that kind of interest and really gets involved? And, you know, Ashley Wolcott coming up in the legal business I mean

it's cutthroat I mean I'm not even going to go into the TV business I mean oh talk about nasty but the legal business you know you're dealing with all sorts of lawyers and all sorts of arenas of law. You got your ambulance chasers. You got your PI lawyers who make things up. You got criminal defense lawyers that hang out with strippers and dopers. I mean, that's a pretty seedy bunch, right? But there are good ones in there too. So why should she not think that Bill Cosby was really going to try and help her? Heck, I'd get on the plane and go try to get some help too. Exactly. You know, I had two mentors, both of whom were judges, and they were phenomenal and still are my entire experience in law. So they're absolutely good people out there.

But also think about this. Hey, what judges are those? What judges helped you? You know, one of them passed away, Sammy Jones. He was a judge in Fulton County. Oh, my stars. I love Sammy. He was one judge in Fulton County. Oh, my stars. I love Sammy. He was one of my.

When I was first in the DA's office, you know, Mr. Slate and the DA sent me to juvenile to try cases. And it was Sammy. And, you know, Sammy was there. Yes. Yep. The other is Judge Adams in DeKalb County. And he is a phenomenal judge and person. I love him.

Good person. Isn't he a great guy he is he is but you know don't forget about with Bill Cosby here's the other reason any anybody's going to trust this man think about those jello commercials with that little boyish cute grin and then he was America's father father of the year Mr. Huxtable for years. And so I think that adds, that media perception adds to why anyone would trust this man. You know what? Here's a sharp dichotomy to Jell-O and America's dad. Listen. Ms. Dickinson, after you came forward, at first, a lot of these women had no name. They were all Jane Doe's. A few of them allowed their names to be out there.

But when you came forward, you know, a lot of people know you. You don't know them, but they think they know you. We all think we know you because we've seen you on TV. We've read about you in the tabloids. We think we know you and all about you. So when you came forward, you really put a name and a face to this. Others have come forward, but you're the one everybody feels that they know. And that has really changed the focus of this whole investigation in my mind, is that a name and a face has been put on this. It's not somebody in the shadows that never came forward. It's you and a few other brave ladies that are weathering the storm. And I'm sure you never expected the hate that has been sent your way after you came forward. I don't know what to say to that, but I know that I am an American,

and I know that this country was based on two premises, freedom of speech and the right to bear arms. Okay. And it was the right thing for me to do when this took place. I told several people about this when this first happened. I told this will come out later. I'll give it all to you when it comes out, Nancy. But it is my right as a woman, as a parent, to protect women out there worldwide and to protect daughters and granddaughters, sisters and mothers. Okay?

It is my right. And I want every woman out there to please hear my words. We've got to stop this man. He will keep doing it. He took a month off innuendo. He was in me. So Dickinson in the courtroom taking the witness stand during Cosby's trial for drugging and sexually assaulting a woman, Andrea Constant. He's being tried for that. She is coming in as a, quote, similar transaction witness. Now, as you know, in our jurisprudence

system, a defendant cannot be tried on his reputation. In fact, there are strict rules that one's reputation or bad character cannot come in. Good character can come in. But here's the exception to that. Similar transactions. For instance, I had a guy named the Red Rapist. He did the same thing every time. He would creep in through a window at about the same time every night, 1 to 2 a.m. in the same neighborhood, get the woman when she's

asleep, rape her in bed, and leave a red rose. Hello, like it was a date. That's a similar transaction. It's a fingerprint crime. Nobody else did it, And there was a string of women that he raped. Therefore, when I tried, I tried them on a lot of them, but there were similar transactions. In other words, these similar cases tend to prove the case in chief showing mode of intent, course of conduct, frame of mind, scheme. So that is why Janice Dickinson is being allowed to testify in the case of state v cosby where the victim is andrea constant do i have that right alan do yes no yes you do exactly so dickinson comes in i don't know why every news account has to describe what women are wearing they never describe what the man's wearing but fyi she wore a simple black pantsuit and a white shirt.

Why does that lead every article? I don't know. Dr. Bethany, I don't want to go off on a tangent, but do you ever notice that every time there's a woman witness or defendant in court, we always have to talk about what she's wearing? But we're also concerned about the details. You know, what she chooses to wear is a detail. The fact that he gave her a little blue pill is a detail. The fact that he dangled career success in front of her is a detail. I mean, the devil's in the details. I mean, I think that there's so much that can go into a trial, so many details, but we're curious about every single aspect. You know, can I go back to the whole thing about him pretending to be a mentor for a second? Yes. I think what I think is so evil with these offenders is they try to identify the one thing that they think the woman really wants.

And what is a supermodel going to want? She's going to want to advance her career. And he played right into that vulnerability. And, you know, whether you're a high-level organized offender or you're a low-level disorganized offender, the man usually always tries to tap into that one thing. And that's what creates confusion in the victims. Well, pedophiles do this. They'll hand a child a piece of candy right um teachers who molest their students do this they'll give them passing grade or or you know they'll give them a pluses they always find something the victim wants and that's where the confusion starts and that's why it takes so long for these victims to come out you know what

when you said it like that you you're so right. I've actually never thought of it that way to you and Brimner way in. You are actually dealing with another alleged victim. I believe her because I know you and Brimner. Um, but we have to say alleged. So is that the experience you're alleged female victim of Bill Cosby had? I mean, this is another woman that hasn't been added to the tally because she just doesn't want to talk about it. And trust me, Ann, I get it. I know, Nancy, you're wonderful. And she's had that exact experience.

And he also groomed her parents who lived up here in Washington State and also offered checks to her, you know, money for her education. So it wasn't just Jess. Oh, my stars. That's exactly what he did with some of the other women. How do you say groomed her parents? Well, basically, like, I'm concerned about her. I suggest she takes these classes. You know, she can have a part in my show.

She's got a great career ahead of her. What are your concerns, you know, about her? I mean, actually calling her parents in a small town in Washington State. And this is Bill Cosby, who's a superstar, America's dad, offering to help her education to actually come up for graduation and appear. And it's just like, you know, there's stars in her eyes. And she was so young and trying to advance her career. And she couldn't believe her great fortune when she first met him and where he offered to help her. You know what's so creepy about that? That's what pedophiles do. They groom the entire

family, not just the victim. Exactly. You know, I remember one of the first cases, Ashley Wilcott, that I tried and it was a sodomy case on a little boy. I still remember the defendant's name, Kenneth Cherry. And the little boy had some kind of a learning disability, couldn't really verbalize very well at all. And he loved playing video games. So the perp would give him rolls of quarters and the little boy really couldn't even testify on the stand very well at all but in his bedroom the police found a big thing of Vaseline porn and rolls of quarters and the little the mom found blood in the little boy's underwear and I'm just thinking

about you know how he befriended the boy befriended the mother and it just beyond anything I could describe that I just always pray that it becomes a distant bad memory so a child can grow up normally as best as they can it's just so difficult but back to I lost my train of thought hold on back to Janice Dickinson in court she says that she complained that she was getting a headache or cramps, and she had her hand on her stomach. And Cosby says, I've got something for that. He gave her a blue pill, a little round blue pill.

And she said they were sitting in a restaurant, and shortly after the pill she started feeling woozy and dizzy. And he goes, we'll continue talking upstairs. So they go upstairs. She didn't think anything of it then when she gets up there she's really starting to get out of it and Cosby changes into a bath robe and makes a phone call probably to his wife and for some reason Dickinson takes three pictures with a Polaroid camera she brought with her and Cosby's on a phone in a robe wearing glasses and a brown velvet hat. And, you know what, take a listen to what Janice Dickinson says.

Hear her, not me. I had menstrual cramps. I had menstrual, you know, stomach cramps. He said, oh, I've got something for that. And he gave me a pill. He's giving me a pill. I trust the guy. I trusted Bill Cosby because of his demeanor and the promise of a career.

And, you know, I trusted him. And I wanted a television career. I had had a successful career. For commercials, I wanted to take it to the next level. It was red wine. It was a pill. And then when I started to black out, I had to take it to the next level. It was red wine. It was a pill. And then when I started to black out, I had a camera on me.

That's when I took several photographs with a Polaroid, when I had one of the first Polaroid cameras. And, you know, I just remembered shooting these pictures and having them on me in my room. Next morning, when I woke up, the last thing I remember, I had blacked out and Cosby mounting me like the monster that he was. And I was thinking, what the heck?

And I just remember passing up. But I remember more specifically waking up and that he, there was a lot of pain in downstairs, the sin all over me, and that my pajamas bottoms were off, and the top was open, and I, at that point, fight or flight, I just packed up, and I got the hell out of there. She continued, before I zonked out, I felt pain between my legs. I passed out. It was gross.

I woke up the next morning in my room and I didn't know where I was. I'm looking right now at the photo of him in the bathrobe talking on the phone. And he's wearing a hat like Fat Albert wore. You know, the page boy but velvet looking kind of, just exactly as she says. Guys, we're talking about Bill Cosby, who is finally, finally in court. Vincent Hill with me, extraordinary private investigator in multiple jurisdictions. Vincent, you know, when you have an armed robbery case or a burglary case,

nobody puts the victim on trial. You know, you don't have to say, oh, you were raped, really? What were you wearing? Did you have a drink? Did you actually have alcohol before the rape? That doesn't happen that way. But the prosecutor has to deal with the reality that that's how people see sex attacks on women. So, you know what?

That's the game. Play the game. Win the game. Let's corroborate the game. Let's corroborate the story. Let's corroborate her story. That's the way you have to think as a prosecutor in a sex crimes case. So there, she's got a photo of him in the room that night wearing the bathrobe that so many women describe. To Vincent Hill, how can you corroborate a rape victim story? Yeah, Nancy, the thing with rape victims, especially when you're talking sexual assaults or rapes, is the physical evidence piece of that. So it makes it difficult for investigators to find that aspect of it. And the sad part is a lot of people wait so long to report these things simply because of fear, fear of retaliation, fear of reputation.

So it makes it very difficult for investigators to actually prove these claims. Dickinson said that she felt anal pain, looked in a mirror and at herself and remember her pajamas, she had on pajamas halfway on with no bottoms. That is Janice Dickinson's story. On trial right now is Bill Cosby, American icon. Alan Duke, we're talking about Janice Dickinson because she's just been on the stand, but what about the case in chief regarding Andrea Constant?

Well, the reason that Constant's case is here is it falls within Pennsylvania's 12-year statute, a statute of limitations. She's now 45, but when she was younger, in 2004, she was an administrator at Temple University for the women's basketball team. And, of course, we know Bill Cos and eventually being drugged and sexually assaulted. She's testified on this before, and she tells a dramatic story. She describes herself being drugged, then jolted into consciousness, when she's awake, she realized that Cosby was groping her breast, and he was also penetrating her with his hands and other body parts. You know, the women are really being subjected to a tough cross-examination.

Janice Dickinson's being subjected to cross-exam regarding who was the father of one of her children because she wasn't sure at the time. There were two possibilities. You know what? I'm sure that's not anything she wanted to relive in court. And frankly, to Ann Bremner, I'm very surprised that kind of questioning got in under the rape shield law. I was too, Nancy. But, you know, he's got a new lawyer in this retrial, and it's Thomas Mesereau,

who you and I know well from the Michael Jackson case back in 2005. I mean, and he's been a lot more aggressive, including suggesting that she's a liar based on some things that she said in her memoir, these things being inconsistent with her testimony. You know, he's also looking at bringing in prior things on another victim, including a conviction on false reporting to the police. So this is quite a different scenario and different legal team than we saw in the first round. We know he's excellent. You know, he does a wonderful job, but he has been far more aggressive. He's a great lawyer. He's a great lawyer. Ashley, the way I think, Ashley Wilcott with me, juvenile judge and founder

of childcrimewatch.com. Ashley, I think the way that he is able to mesero is able to cross-examine janice dickinson supermodel about her past love life is on inconsistent statements because she once said the baby belonged to sly stallone sylvester stallone it turned out it wasn't his so that's an inconsistent statement her explanation is i thought it was but it wasn't his. So that's an inconsistent statement. Her explanation is, I thought it was, but it wasn't. So that's how he's managing to do that. He's doing that for inconsistent statements, but also to attack the credibility of the particular witness. So I think on both grounds, he has the ability legally to do that. Take a listen to Lisa Lott Lubin on Dr. Phil as she describes the alleged attack on her by Bill Cosby. The year was 1988. The owner of the modeling agency I worked for called me and said that Bill Cosby would like

to meet with me. I was very excited to go and see him. I was starstruck. I felt invincible. I couldn't believe that he wanted to see me. I got to the hotel. He was a gentleman, and he was respectful and kind, and he seemed very interested in me, and that made me feel very secure in seeing him again. He was the jello pudding man. He was everyone's dad. The next time that we met,

I had asked if my mother and sister could join us, and he said yes. So we all went up to the Elvis suite. We had a great time. We took pictures. My mother trusted Bill completely. But Lisa claims he ended up betraying that trust during a mentoring session in his hotel suite bill cosby called me out of the blue and he said can you come by and see me and i was like of

course i went up to his hotel and i was alone he talked, let me see what type of acting skills you have. I want you to improv. And as I tried to do improv, he fixed a drink and then he brought it to me. It was a brown liquid and it looked like a shot. I told him I didn't drink. He said that this was going to relax me so that the lines would flow out a lot easier. So I did drink it. He made a second drink and had me drink the second drink as well. I noticed myself getting a little dizzy. Bill had sat down on the edge of the couch. He said, come over here and have a seat. He had his legs open.

And when I sat down, I was sitting down in between his legs with my back to his crotch. He started to stroke my hair back in a petting motion like this. The last things I remember is just feeling the strokes on my head. After that, I don't remember anything else. Well, Lisa has not spoken publicly about her allegations

and is coming forward for the first time right now, this minute, today. How do you feel about coming out and talking about this right now, right here? I was not interested in talking about it out loud. One of my close friends who's a detective in Raleigh, Catherine, she told me to file a report. I wanted the police to be able to just confront him and let him know that I know he did something wrong. You know if you were on the witness stand,

and this is part of your point about not filing the report, not filing charges, you don't really know what happened. Do you know if he raped you? Do you know if he molested you in some way? Do you know? You don't really know what did happen. No. Lisa Lott Lubin also on the stand this week. Now, interesting, I spoke at length with the wife of the Incredible Hulk, by the way, Carla Ferrigno. You know, it just seemingly doesn't end how many women have to come forward before Cosby's put behind bars. Listen to what Carla tells me. I was 18 years old. Don't do the math. But it was, I was on a date with someone who asked me to dinner, who seemed like a very nice

man in the show business. It was in the music business, actually. And he asked me to dinner. I went and he said, we went to dinner. We had a lovely evening, and then he said, would you like to go with me to my best friend's house, which is Bill Cosby? And I didn't have anything to do. I'd broken up with my boyfriend. I didn't have to worry about where I was going or whatever. And I said, well, okay, yeah, all right. I didn't know. I knew Bill Cosby had a show.

I'd never watched the show. I knew nothing really about him at all. And I certainly didn't go there because he was a celebrity. I went because I was having a nice He answered the door. Him and his wife stood right by the door. Camille, I'll never forget her name. And we were standing by the door just talking. We were introduced. And he said, let's go to a fun. So I went to the movies with them. It was my date, Bill, Camille, and I. And we had Cracker Jacks, and we laughed, and he played. And he acted like he was playing with a child with me. I did not sit. I sat down, and he sat next to me on the far left. My date was next to me, and his wife was way on the other end. But we had a really fun time. And then he decided, you know, the movie was over. We were in Westwood. The movie was over.

And he said, my date said to me, would you like to go back to Bill's and play pool? I was the pool bunny at the Playboy Club at 18. Can you believe this? No. Yeah. Yeah. So I said, oh, okay. I thought, well, okay, we'll do that.

I mean, they all seemed so nice. Why wouldn't I want to do this? So I said, okay, I will. So we went to his house and the first thing he did was he walked in. He took me into the pool. We all went to the pool room. And I said, he said to me, would you like a cocktail? And I said, no, I don't drink. And he said, okay, well, would you like some water? And I said, no, I I'm just fine and so that's how I met him we were playing pool and so he he played first with my date and then guess who won Bill won and he said okay well now I play with Carla now it's getting on to be around midnight it's getting late and I

I picked up the pool cue and I'm I'm playing. And suddenly I looked up and I said, where did your wife go? And he goes, oh, she probably went to bed. I said, oh, okay. And then I shot another thing and I'm doing good at this game. And then I look up and I go, well, where's my date? And he goes, oh, I don't know. He probably went to the bathroom or something. And so we played the game. We did it. He beat me. And I took my pool cue and my back was to him. And I turned around and I put it on the table. And when I turned back around, he lunged me. He just lunged right, I mean, just on me. He jumped me. And I was in shock.

And I pushed him like with all the strength I had. I tried, and then he grabbed me, and he kissed me right in the mouth. And I just, I kicked, I pushed away from him. And I got away from him, and I was like, oh. And I mean, it was so awful. And then I looked up, and those eyes, he looked like the devil. He didn't look like the fun, happy guy anymore. He looked like the devil.

And I said, for a second, I sat there for a second, go, I just, I sat there for a second and I looked at him and I was a, I was a tough girl. I, I grew up, but in those days I was a tough street girl. I knew how to take care of myself. And men were always trying to molest me my whole life, ever since I was like five years old. So, and I always got away. So I, I took, I started running down the hallway. He lived in a very large house on the flats of Beverly Hills, and I went running down the hallway. And just as I'm running down the hallway, who comes out of the door? My date.

So I looked at my date, and I said, I'm leaving. I want you to take me home now, right now. And he did, and I never even talked to him about it. I just went completely silent, got in the car. He took me and dropped me off, and that was that. You know, it's one thing, Dr. Bethany Marshall, to hear from various victims, because if you are prone to believe Cosby and disbelieve all these women, you find a way to discount everything they say.

Right. Have you noticed that? Oh, absolutely. That's the way the brain works. If you have a very strong belief system and somebody presents evidence to the contrary, it will actually buttress and reinforce your own belief system, even if your belief system is off. But I think there's some hope here in that.

I think that our jurors are the conscience of the community, I think. And after the Me Too movement, our culture is rethinking why women wait so long to come forward, what victimization means, how women become discredited after having been victimized. So when they hear all this about Spanish Fly being drugged, America's dad, I'm hoping that the jurors are going to have a way to rethink all of this in a sensitive way. And I think Paul Mesereau is not going to look so good. We really admired him in the Michael Jackson trial because he's just so talented as an attorney.

But degrading victims and victimizing them even further, it's not a good look in this day and age. You know, what you were saying about if you're prone or mindset to disbelieve all these women, you'll continue to do that and think of them as freeloaders and extortionists. In fact, Cosby sends out his spokesperson, Andrew Wyatt, who describes the molestation accusers as, quote, five distractions with, quote, poetic license and alternative facts. And listen to this. this really made me upset he says this spokesperson for Cosby that

the victims are represented by quote two of the greatest extortionists of the 21st century Gloria Allred and daughter Lisa Bloom you know I really resent that because I a lot of people don't like Gloria and I'm not really sure why because I can remember guys during the Scott Peterson trial I would work I'd get up five o'clock in the morning get to the courthouse work all day stay up to do my program on HLN then stay up for Larry King which was 10 you know it would end at 10 o'clock California time I don't know what time that would be Eastern at three hours. And long story short, exhausted. When I would leave the courthouse, there would be Gloria Allred on the corner and her St. John suit working two cell phones working that woman. I mean, everybody trashes her. And of course I, I worked with Lisa as a friend.

We were friends at Court TV. So I don't really appreciate the attack on the legacy that Gloria Allred has left behind. Anyway, that's a whole other can of worms. But claiming that they're all trying to extort him, that that's what this is all about. Because I want you to listen to what Cosby himself says in an interview with Larry King. Spanish fly was the thing that all boys from age 11 on up to death, we will still be searching for Spanish fly. That's right. And what was the old story was, if you took a little drop, it was on the head of a pin. That's right.

Drop it in a Coca-Cola. It doesn't make a difference. And the girl would drink it and hello, America. I mean, how dare he get on Larry King and joke about Spanish, using Spanish fly either for himself or giving it to women? I mean, Dr. Bethany Marshall, he made it all a big joke. Well, but we know with this type of offender, because rapist typologies are very clearly delineated. And one type of rapist is a rapist who has a personality disorder, prone to criminality, lack of conscience, low levels of insight or empathy towards the victims. So Bill Cosby just falls right into this category. So you know how criminals will brag about the crime and they don't think they'll get into trouble? Bill Cosby's personality disorder allows him to go on national television and basically

brag about drugging and raping his victims because he thinks he's above it all. He has no insight into the fact that people are listening and that they actually might have second thoughts about this. Well, here's a message. FYI, Cosby, we're listening. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend. invocomet or invocomet xr or other inhibitors for type 2 diabetes and suffered amputation of the toes feet or legs you may be entitled to substantial financial compensation act now for a free consultation and free information call injury help desk at 800-245-4904 800-245-4904 call now this is an advertisement paid non-attorney spokesperson www.injuryhelpdesk.com is responsible for this advertisement principal office las vegas this is an advertisement. Paid non-attorney spokesperson. www.injuryhelpdesk.com is responsible for this advertisement. Principal office Las Vegas.

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