Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Hollywood superstar Ashton Kutcher fingerprints at murder scene

Episode Date: May 31, 2019

A "thrill-kill" serial killer stalks women in Hollywood. Ashley Ellerin was dating TV star, Ashton Kutcher, when she was brutally stabbed to death in her own home.Kutcher took the stand to weigh in on his role in the investigation. Was he a suspect?And...At least 28 people killed in a Atlanta over a two year period. Known as the Atlanta Child Murders, no one has been brought to justice. Police renew the investigation into this disturbing case.Nancy's expert panel weighs in:Marjorie Hernandez:  Justice editor at US Weekly and radar onlineVincent Hill:     Private InvestigatorAshley Wilcott:    Judge and Trial attorneyDr. Ryan Fuller:  Clinical PsychologistDr. William Morrone: Deputy Medical Examiner in Bay County Michigan  Joseph Scott Morgan: Forensics expertDr. Caryn Stark: PsychologistLeigh Egan: Crimeonline.com investigative reporter Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I observed quite a large amount of blood and not too short distance was Ashley's body. A lot of anger, a lot of rage. Somebody had isolated Ashley Ellerin, the killer, and was very, very angry when he did it. It just was a very bad scene. Probably one of the worst I've seen. But what surprised the seasoned investigator even more

was what he didn't see. Any evidence that would point to a killer. You know, we were just looking for any type of direction or clues that would to lead to a suspect. It was Ashley's friends that gave detectives that first and only clue, pointing them to a young man Ashley had met in the neighborhood months earlier. The information we have is that he introduced himself as a heating and air guy. How does all of this relate to Hollywood star Ashton Kutcher? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us with me. An all-star panel starting with Marjorie Hernandez, Justice Editor at US Weekly and RadarOnline.com, Dr. Ryan Fuller, Clinical Psychologist and Director of New York Behavioral Health, Ashley Wilcott, Judge, Lawyer, you can find her at AshleyWilcott.com,

and Vincent Hill, cop turned PI and author of Playbook to a Murder on Amazon. First to you, Marjorie Hernandez. Thanks so much for being with us. Ashton Kutcher, the star of That 70s Show and so many other major, major hits, says he, quote, screwed up and was, quote, freaking out when the body of this gorgeous young woman was found in her apartment dead. Let me first start with the crime scene. Marjorie Hernandez, what do we know? Well, Ashley was found stabbed 47 times, literally from her head to toe.

And the wounds were so terrible and horrendous that she was almost decapitated. And the next day, her roommate found her lying on the ground in her own pool of blood. Who is Ashley Ellerin? This is what we know. Take a listen to my friend, Jesse Palmer. Ashley Ellerin was a happy teen with a bright future. She grew up in the Silicon Valley town of Los Altos, California. Daily Mail TV has exclusively obtained photos from her days in high school. Ashley was a member of the swimming team and grinned from ear to ear when posing with the water polo team. She was class council treasurer during her junior year. In one yearbook photo, the bookish teen wears glasses. It's captioned, Flashback.

Ashley Ellerin takes time out of her hectic schedule to talk with a friend during brunch. Here, she displays a radiant smile with her arms draped around classmates. A few years later, she met actor Ashton Kutcher. It's okay. I know what to do. He was the sexy goofball on that 70s show and his star was on the rise. Ashley was 22 and studying fashion. In February of 2001, she was getting ready for a date with Kutcher when cops say broke into her home and stabbed her 47 times. You're hearing our friend Jesse Palmer at Daily Mail TV. This young woman, Ashley Ellering, is 22 years old, stabbed nearly 50 times

in her own home. To Dr. Ryan Fuller, clinical psychologist, Dr. Fuller, thank you for being with us. Got a question for you. In my world of criminal law, it's very significant that a victim, an unarmed victim, is stabbed 47 times. What does it mean in the world of psychology? Well, the amount of time it takes and the gruesome just experience means that the person, you know, taking part in that act is not experiencing empathy or fear or disgust. And, you know, something must be overwhelming. A person like rage or, as I said, they just really, their amygdala is not firing in a way, but they're experiencing the things that normally keep the rest of us from taking those kinds of actions, the kind of morality that would

indicate there'd be incredible fear and disgust and horror or something like that. You know, the other aspect in my mind, Ashley Wilcott with me, you can find her at ashywilcott.com, is we have two choices. The killer was either an intruder and you would expect to find a broken window, a forced window, pry marks on the door, some sort of intrusion, or it's someone she knows and allows in the home. To me, 47 stab wounds, you know, as you know, Ashley, I often call stabbings a sweetheart murder. Not that there is any love loss between the two, but you are close up and intimate with your victim and to affect a death like this, a murder like this this or any stabbing you are within arm's reach or much closer i mean think of jody arias and her victim travis alexander stabbed approximately 28 times and then shot in the head left naked in the shower stall she was close up

and personal with him to affect the murder. Same thing here. So you have the choice of an intruder or someone she lets into the home. Tell me your thoughts on the mode of murder. Yeah, the mode of murder to me, I completely agree that it is, that's a crime of passion. You do not see that number of brutal stab wounds almost decapitating her, Nancy, unless it is a person that has entered her home with her consent, whether it's someone she knew or whether it's

someone who's in a person, a position of trust that you might think, oh, of course I can let this person in because this is what they do for a living or this is someone I can trust. Maybe they're doing work on the house. Let's let them in. Yeah, you know what? When I say let them in, you're right. It doesn't necessarily mean a boyfriend, a neighbor, a family, a relative, someone related in some way. It could be just that. Now, take a listen to this. The body of 22-year-old Ashley Lauren Ellerin was found by her roommate early Thursday morning. Police say the stabbing happened Wednesday night.

I remember like it was yesterday. I entered the house. There was two steps to the left here, and Ashley was laying across the two stairs, absolutely blue and covered in blood. A sense of trauma just came over me. I thought maybe the person was still there, and I kind of ran out. Ended up getting to the car and calling from my cell phone,

911. It still traumatizes me to this day. Ashley Ellerin was just everybody's daughter, living life and having fun. She winds up meeting somebody who's the wrong person and lost her life over it. You're hearing our friend Maureen Maher at 48 Hours over at CBS. But how does Ashton Kutcher fit into this young girl's murder. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Ashton Kutcher takes the stand in the Hollywood Ripper murder trial.

The actor appears in a Los Angeles courtroom and testifies that on the night Ashley Ellerin was killed on February 21, 2001, they had plans to get dinner or drinks and had spoken on the phone earlier in the evening. But later on, he tried her multiple times and she didn't pick up, and when he came to her home, nobody answered the door when he knocked, despite the fact that the lights were on inside. I thought it odd the lights were all on. I didn't want to be the guy looking through her window," Kutcher said, adding that the place looked a little bit of a mess. Then I saw what I thought was red wine on the carpet. He thought it may be spilt wine from a

party. The next day, when he learned Ellerin had been murdered, Kutcher testified that he remembered freaking out about having fingerprints on her doorknob after the murder and that he told the police everything he knew and was not involved in the killing. The suspected killer's attorney joked, don't worry, you're not a suspect. Ashton laughed and said, thank you, and ended his testimony. He took a deep breath and walked out of the courtroom. Kutcher testified for about 40 minutes. You're hearing our friends over at E! News. Welcome back, everybody. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Ashton Kutcher on the stand in a court of law in a murder case, a murder case that has now been linked to the murders of several other

young women. And the alleged killer now has the moniker Hollywood Ripper. Joining me, Vincent Hill, Ashley Wilcott, Dr. Ryan Fuller, and Marjorie Hernandez, Justice Editor at US Weekly and RadarOnline.com. Marjorie, explain to me how Ashton Kutcher is embroiled in a serial murder case. Ashton Kutcher was asked to testify about the events that happened that night that he was supposed to pick her up for a date. And he had called her several times to try to set this date. And when he finally tried to go to her home, she did not answer. And he did speak to authorities and say that he tried to pick her up that day, but she never answered her door. Vincent Hill, private investigator, former cop, author of Playbook to a Murderer, Kutcher says he was, quote, freaking out because he knew his fingerprints were on the scene,

specifically at the door, maybe even at the window where he looked in and saw what he thought was red wine all over the floor. Vincent Hill, I would say that at the time, that very likely made him a suspect. Yeah, absolutely, Nancy. I mean, he's saying all the key words. I called her. She didn't answer. I didn't want to be the guy at the door, at the window so late. And by the way, my fingerprints may be at the crime scene. It reminds me of Dolly Routier when she called 911 and said, hey, I already touched a knife that was used to stab my two sons to death. So, yes, initially, I believe Ashton Kutcher was looked at as a suspect. Well, of course he was. And he has to know that.

Guys, we are talking about Hollywood star, the star of the 70s show and so many other hits. Ashton Kutcher in a court of law embroiled in a serial murder case. This young girl, Ashley Ellerin, really everybody's sweetheart, found brutally stabbed dead there in Hollywood. Her killer somehow picking up the moniker Hollywood Ripper. And I know that's got a cut to the heart of every crime victim's family involved in this case when they hear the words Hollywood Ripper. You know, Ashley Wilcott, that moniker, the name for the killer, Michael Gargiulo, has really stuck. And it just flows off the tongue of reporters. But you know, when the family members

of these young ladies all murdered and attacked, hear that? I mean, they have to think of, for instance, Ashley Ellerin, literally being ripped apart with a knife. Yeah, that's exactly, I can't even imagine for these victims' families, first of all, but second of all, to hear a moniker like that. But isn't it fitting? I mean, as awful as it sounds, it does fit because he is the Ripper. And look at, again, the force and the number of times he stabbed and everything he did to that victim. That title fits the person who would do this type of crime. When I refer to him as a serial killer, I firmly believe that Ashley Ellerin, tragically, is not this guy, Michael Gargiulo's only victim. Listen.

It's our belief that around 1140 in the evening, he gained access into this window, which was open a few inches. Once he got inside there, he then opens the front door, kind of stages it as an escape route, proceeds into the bedroom where she's sleeping, and what awakes her is a knife being plunged into her. He just flat-out stabbed her. Right. She was stabbed multiple times in her chest and shoulder and right arm, suffered several wounds to both of her hands as she's grabbing this knife

as it's being plunged down upon her, where those wounds all required surgery. And at some point there's a lull in the action, so to speak, and she was able to get her feet up and kick him off of her. And that's where he then took off running and left the location. Did he say anything to her ever? I'm sorry. He said, I'm sorry. I'm sorry I'm sorry that young woman Maria Bruno she's not the only one what about Trisha Picaccio Trisha got home sometime after 1 a.m. with keys in hand she went to the side of the house to let herself in she never made it the next morning Trisha's Rick, was going out to his van. I tried to revive her.

That is the worst feeling in your life, when you can't do nothing for somebody you love. Trisha's mother, Diane, was at work. And I just left work and jumped in the car and came home, and I don't remember anything else. She had a lot of blood on her shirt or her blouse. Ray Salayevich was the first uniformed police officer on the scene. I was guessing she was stabbed numerous times.

I heard a lady screaming, and I turned and looked, because I was still in the front yard, and the mother was running towards Trish. I basically tackled her and I didn't want her to see Trish like this and remember her daughter like that. While investigators were trying to secure the scene, one young neighbor was paying close attention. 17-year-old Mike Gargiulo. You're hearing our friends at 48 hours. That was Maureen Marr. This guy, Michael Gargiulo, is believed to have murdered at least 10 women, including the two we just described, Maria Bruno and Tricia Picaccio. Back to special guests joining us, Marjorie Hernandez, Justice Editor at US Weekly and RadarOnline.com. You have

been in the courtroom. Marjorie Hernandez, describe to all of us what's happening in court. Mr. Gargiulo normally is very involved in just watching the witnesses. And from time to time, you would see Mr. Gargiulo trying to speak to his defense attorneys next to him. Tell us about Ashton Kushner's testimony on the stand. Well, Ashton, I think his testimony was very important because he was trying to, prosecutors are trying to piece together a timeline of events of what happened the night Ashley was killed on February 21st. And I think they did succeed in that with Mr. Kutcher's testimony. You know, prosecutors have called the murders systematic slaughters

of women, and they have described the defendant, Michael Gargiulo, as the, quote, boy-next-door killer. Well, that is certainly putting perfume on the pig when you think of the boy next-door killer and 10 bodies at the very least. To Vincent Hill, why are they referring to him as the boy next door? Yeah, Nancy reminds me of Ted Bundy. He just had this charming look. This guy, not that I'm into guys, is a very charming looking guy. He's very trusting. And also, Nancy, he had a position where people would kind of trust. He was this air condition repair guy. So, you know, who's not going to trust the air condition repair guy to come into your home and fix things? But that makes him a prime suspect to be able to watch people know when people are going to be home when he can strike take a listen to our friend kara finnish him at cbs2 la the

methodical and systematic slaughter of women gargiulo there sitting in the courtroom at times he rubbed his hands together prosecutors say he grew up in suburban chicago played on his high AT TIMES HE RUBBED HIS HANDS TOGETHER. PROSECUTORS SAY HE GREW UP IN SUBURBAN CHICAGO, PLAYED ON HIS HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL TEAM, AND LATER WORKED AS AN A.C. REPAIRMAN AND A PLUMBER. THEY ALSO SAY HE WAS A HUSBAND AND A FATHER. THE ALLEGED WHAT NOBODY KNEW IS THAT HE WAS LEADING A DOUBLE LIFE. INVESTIGATORS ARE CALLING GARGIULO A SERIAL SEXUAL THRILL KILLER WHO ALLEGEDLY STABBED AND BUTCHERED HIS VICTIMS. HE'S CHARGED WITH BOTH MURDER AND ATTEMPTED MURDER IN FOUR DIFFERENT AT in four different attacks. In all the cases, they say the M.O. was the same.

Gargiulo's plan to kill was to first identify a target who lived near him, acquaint himself with that victim and her habits and routines, and then watch, shadow, stalk, and hunt down the victims relentlessly as part of his plan to kill. The trial goes on, and we will bring you the very latest from inside the courtroom. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Aaron Jackson Jr. was among the youngest, only nine years old. Luby Jeter was 14, Timothy Hill, 13, Patrick Baltazar, 11. For almost two years, the bodies have kept coming out of Atlanta's rivers and woods, and week after week, police speak of sorrow and sympathy, but not a solution.

It's just a tragic, horrible nightmare that we're going through. We're not in a position today to make an arrest. There are cases in history that have gone on much longer than this has. At police task force headquarters, there are 27 faces on the wall, 26 murdered, one missing. The killer? There is a handful of sketches, no one the same, no one certain to be the person police can't answer who or why. You are hearing from our friend James Polk at NBC News. In the last days, we learned that the Atlanta child murder murders investigation is set to be reopened. Here's Kristen Holloway at WSB-TV. The community was in a state of panic from 1979 to 1981 after someone

murdered more than 20 children one by one. Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms and Police Chief Erica Shields announced a new push to re-examine evidence in the case. I think it's important that the families know that we continue to remember these children and we continue to do all we can do to provide them closure. Wayne Williams is convicted of killing two men in 1981, but authorities believe he's responsible for some of the infamous child murders. His attorney Lynn Whatley said Friday, not so fast. The city is going, the GBI, are going to retest any evidence.

They need a third party. Their hands are not clean. I'm convinced this case is based on political leanings. Mayor Bottoms says she wants the victims' families to know the city hasn't forgotten about them. That these children still matter. And they mattered in 1979 through 1981, and they still matter to us in 2019. Straight out to CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter joining us, Lee Egan. CrimeOnline.com where you can find this

and all other breaking crime and justice news lee egan let's start at the beginning how many people were victims in the atlanta child murders at least 25 that were connected to possibly the same person although during during that time in Atlanta, in the Atlanta area, metro area, there were over 100 victims. But connected to someone that they think is a serial killer targeting young children, at least 25 were connected. You know, I want to talk about DNA because the case is being reopened. Now, many people believe that a total of 29 young children and young adults were murdered by one man, Wayne Williams. And this was a significant advancement in criminal justice because that was one of the very first cases that used fiber evidence. Fibers found on the bodies of the many, many victims matched fiber evidence from, for instance, Wayne Williams' carpet in his home,

Wayne Williams' carpet in his car. Take a listen to Atlanta Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms. A lot has changed in our world since 1981 when there was a conviction for two of these murders, the conviction of Wayne Williams. What has changed is that we now know that DNA technology is much more advanced. It did not exist in 1981. It would certainly be in order for us to now look once again at evidence that the City of Atlanta has in its possession, evidence that the GBI has in its possession, to once again take a fresh look at these cases and to determine once and for all if there's additional evidence that may be tested that may give some peace to the extent that peace can be had in a situation like this. I want to go to Dr. William Maroney joining us, Deputy Medical Examiner, Bay County, Michigan, author of America Narcan on Amazon. Limited question, Dr. Maroney,

how do you find fibers on a dead body? And many of these bodies had been in the water. Every time you go through fiber analysis, it means the body has been checked from head to toe, and that includes ear canals, fingernails, toenails, and oftentimes we undress and wash the bodies right before autopsy. So we're able to see all the clothes. we fold them, we go through them, we photograph them, and then the photographs themselves are part of the analysis. And if somebody's wearing dark clothes and there's light orange or red or yellow fibers, and somebody says, oh, this looks like rope from a nautical shop or a boat, you know, we take a look at that. Or there's really dark fibers and somebody's wearing a lot of white. Those fibers are saved and sent off and tested to see if they're

natural, synthetic, and if they're important and they're matched to any of the wounds or bruises on the body. That is how we find them, and that is what we use them for. To Joseph Scott Morgan joining me, forensics expert, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, and author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, Joseph Scott, question. Explain to me about the transference of fiber and how you end up matching up to get a positive match on fiber evidence alone and what

does it mean you know uh fiber evidence in the last few years has become very controversial nancy as a matter of fact some people won't even include it any longer but this was a this was a game changer back at that particular time in forensic evidence and one of the things that will carefully do is to conduct what are referred to as tape lifts off of the body also at the scene to do comparison any kind of items that may have come in contact with with any source of fiber such as a weapon that might be crusted with blood the interior cars obviously the body as dr. Moroney had mentioned just a moment ago, the clothing associated with the body. To do a comparison analysis, you know, synthetic fibers like,

you know, were so, they kind of burst on the scene with the Wayne Williams case. That carpet that was found in his car and in his home was a very short-run carpet that had been actually generated right up the road in Dalton, Georgia, and it was very unique. So you're looking for a unique pattern that has connectivity back to the scene, back to the body, and back to the perpetrator. It's kind of a triangle if you think about it. But Joe Scott, how are the cases similar? Why were they grouped together to start with? And I'll tell you what I think is the problem. I believe Wayne Williams killed many, many of these children. But when he was convicted, see, they closed the cases on like 22 other crimes going,

oh yeah, he did those too. I'd like to see modern DNA technology used on those. But first, tell me the MO that linked all these 29 together. Well, I think that the first point of reference that we have to go to, Nancy, is going to be the race of the children and their age grouping. It's really, you know, I think the public has been rocked into this idea that these are all children. These are not all children, okay? As a matter of fact, the two that I think that Wayne Williams was convicted of were in no way children. But they have connectivity relative to racial grouping and locale where these kids went missing. One of the first housing projects in the nation that sprung up after World War II

was a Techwood housing development that you're well aware of that's no longer there. The Olympic Village took the place of it. A lot of these kids disappeared out of that area, and a few of these bodies were dumped over in the adjacent county of DeKalb County, and many of these bodies were found in water areas associated with the Chattahoochee River. Matter of fact, I know one of the investigators that was present when the first body was discovered in a wooded area. So there's connectivity with this to a certain degree, but I think a lot of these can be placed at the feet of him, but not every one of them. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Where we are in the investigation right now is we do not know the person or persons that are responsible,

therefore we do not have the motive. The killer seems to taunt police and read press clippings. After a well-publicized but futile search along a road in an outlying county, the next child strangled with a rope was dumped there. And when a suburban police official criticized Atlanta's investigation, a child choked to death was left just inside that official's county line. After a press report that police had found fibers on some of the bodies, six of the last seven victims have been dropped into rivers,

all stripped to their undershorts or less, possibly to wash away evidence. You're hearing from our friend James Polk at NBC News. In the last days, we learned that the Atlanta child murderers investigation is set to be reopened. Dr. William Maroney, author of American Narcan, medical examiner. Dr. Maroney, what about the cause of death, the MO? How are they similar, one to the other? Well, if you look at the type of suffocation, scrangulation, or blunt force injuries, they'll always show some kind of handedness, that somebody that did this was more than likely right-handed and it was right-handed each time. Or if there's a sequence of injuries like a beating and then a strangulation,

you can tell that a beating is first because it causes bruises and strangulation. If that's first, then you don't have blood flow and you don't have the bruises and strangulation, if that's first, then you don't have blood flow and you don't have the bruises. So is that one of the modus operandi that continues to follow in each of the areas? To Ashley Wilcott, judge, lawyer, you can find her at ashywilcott.com. Ashley, I believe the cases for which Wayne Williams was convicted, I believe thoroughly in my heart and mind, he did it. Now, here's my issue. I don't like it when they say we're reopening the Wayne Williams case. But what they did when they closed his case, when they got these two convictions convictions in the deaths of two of the victims. They closed about 22 other cases. They blamed it on Williams and they never formally charged him. Now, are those Wayne

Williams victims? Very possibly, yes. But if there's new DNA technology, I'm all for trying it on him. I agree with you. It's the right thing to do to reopen the case. Now, to me, it's not reopening the case on Wayne Williams. It's reopening the case for these children, right? They're the victims. It's reopening the case on these children because, bottom line, it's never been proven. There's never been a conviction. There's never been a guilty plea for who killed those children. So those are unanswered questions. And frankly, the families of those

children deserve those answers, especially with new technology. Listen, one investigator says, even if the killer walked in the door and confessed, there is not enough evidence now to convict him. A half dozen of the cases may be isolated, unrelated homicides, the victims found near home, killed perhaps by family or friends. But somewhere in the city of Atlanta, there is a person who has killed 15 or 20 boys and young men. The district attorney keeps a chart on the wall with names of the dead and room for more. With my theory, the person is not abducted, not kidnapped, not snatched off the street at that particular time, but is willingly going with somebody for something, at least at the instance they get in the car. They're going to make some money, or they're going to meet somebody.

They're going, starting off willingly. You know, Dr. Karen Stark, joining me, psychologist out of New York, you can find her at karenstark.com. I agree. Although some parents may feel that it's just opening up old wounds, others may say, hey, you know what, let's just try the DNA and see what happens. I think it's really important, Nancy, to know who exactly the killer was. And I think that for any kind of peace of mind, which we all know, that never really happens when you've lost somebody and forget about being murdered children, the horrific part of the story. I think that they need to know exactly who the killer was, that it will make a difference. Absolutely. And to Lee Egan, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter, what happened was that many people claim, and I do not believe this myself,

that there was a cover-up of some sort. It was mostly led by Wayne Williams himself and his followers. He always claimed he's innocent and that Atlanta officials wanted to cover up evidence of a Ku Klux Klan role in the killings to avoid a race war. I'm not buying it. I'm not buying a race war or a big cover-up because, frankly, same reason I don't think there was a cover-up in the O.J. Simpson case or conspiracy. I don't think people are smart enough to in the OJ Simpson case or conspiracy. I don't think people are smart enough to keep a conspiracy quiet for all those years. Well, Nancy, the thing is also there was a member of the KKK. He didn't specifically take responsibility for these killings, but he made it seem as if they were involved and he was happy about what happened.

So he kind of led into that conspiracy theory and kept it going. So one freak says he was happy about the killings and we're going to reopen the case. I don't think that's enough to reopen the case, but if there's new and advanced DNA technology that can put some parents' hearts and minds at rest, I'm all for it. Children were dying on the streets of Atlanta in the daytime. What we had here was a predator. And what he was looking for was somebody who was cut off and hurt. And if you don't realize you're in trouble until you're in trouble, then you have no way of getting out. It would be another year before Jeffrey Mathis's body was found in a woods

miles from his home. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.