Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Honor Student, 13, Stabs Mom DEAD IN NECK, Next to Infant Daughter: CONFESSES

Episode Date: December 20, 2023

A shocked courtroom heard Derek Rosa tell police he stabbed his mother to death in her sleep as his baby sister slept next to her in the bed.  After hearing the teen's taped confession, Miami Dade Circuit Judge Richard Hersch rejected a defense motion to move Rosa out of the adult jail and into a juvenile facility.  The defense says it is unconstitutional to keep Rosa in an adult cell, claiming he is being kept in unsustainable conditions and is only allowed outside the cell for 20 hours a week.  After rejecting the motion, the judge orders Rosa to be held in the Miami-Dade Metro West Detention Center until his unscheduled trial begins.   Reportedly, the night Derek Rosa stabs his mother to death, he makes six Google searches including, “What is the best place to stab someone?”  " "Is a small knife good for killing?” “ "Is it easier to kill someone with a small knife?” “Can a knife cut through bone?” He also searched for an image of The Carotid Artery diagram.  The DailyMail reports the last search made that night was to inquire about a machine gun.  Derek Rosa claims in a police interview that his stepfather owns two guns and he planned to shoot himself after the stabbing but didn't go through with it. Joining Nancy Grace Today: Matthew Mangino – Attorney, Former District Attorney (Lawrence County); Author: “The Executioner’s Toll: The Crimes, Arrests, Trials, Appeals, Last Meals, Final Words and Executions of 46 Persons in the United States;” Twitter: @MatthewTMangino Caryn L. Stark – NYC Psychologist, Trauma and Crime Expert; Twitter: @carynpsych, Facebook: “Caryn Stark” Pat Diaz – Former Miami Dade Police Homicide Detective, Private Investigator in South Florida Dr. Kendall Crowns – Chief Medical Examiner Tarrant County (Ft Worth) and Lecturer: University of Texas Austin and Texas Christian University Medical School Alexis Tereszcuk – CrimeOnline Investigative Reporter, Writer/Fact Checker at Lead Stories; Twitter: @swimmie2009 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Straight A's, honor student, played sports, everything, loving son, big brother. In the last hours, we learn 13-year-old Derek Rosa has confessed to murdering his mother. As she's lying in bed asleep, right beside her, her new infant baby girl. Not only do we learn about a confession, we have obtained that confession to play for you. And at the same time, we learn that just emerging is Nanny Kim video

of the room where the mom is murdered and him hovering over his sleeping mother. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Crime Stories and on Sirius XM 111. I want you to take a listen and comb through this statement by the honor student son, Derek Rosa. Let's hear it. After my friends. You called him before you decided to try to shoot yourself or afterwards? After. Okay. How many friends did you call? 21.

What's his name? He's an online friend. He's an online friend? Yeah. When you say online friend, are you meaning from video games? Yes, from video games. I know a little about them. Okay.

How long have you known him? Since the day I was 10. Three years? Three years. Have have you known him? Did you hear that? He couldn't bring himself to say, I killed her, until the detective said, it's okay, you can say it. And he said, I killed her. I killed her. Wow. Alexis Tereszczuk joining me, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. Alexis Tereszczuk, it's really hard to take in what we're hearing. You have a son, like I do, I have a son and daughter, and they're honor students, and they really were some wood for me to knock on. So far have not given me a minute of trouble like your sweet boy. And then out of the blue, this aberrant behavior. But what can you tell me about this confession? And it is a confession. So Derek Rosa actually called 911 himself the

night of October 12th, about 1130 at night, called the police himself. He said, come, I have killed my mom. The police take him to the police station. They talk with him. They say, what happened? And his explanation is, I woke up, I grabbed one of the kitchen knives, and I went to her room. And then he stops. But he doesn't stop forever. The police officer says, it's okay, you can talk to me. And he says, I killed her. He fully confessed to killing his mom. He didn't say why. But he is he in fact took pictures of himself immediately after he killed her. former Miami-Dade police homicide detective, now private investigator. And you can find him at SouthFLPI, SouthFloridaPI.com, SouthFLPI.com. Pat, thank you for being with us.

You have to take special precautions when you are interviewing, as a cop, a juvenile. Explain. Absolutely. In these types of cases, and that many investigators get that opportunity when you have a juvenile to interview, you've got to make sure that he's able of sound mind, which means he's understanding how to read, how to write, what the process is in order to move on. Otherwise, if he's in a daze, then you have nothing. And in this case, the homicide detectives did a great job talking to him and actually getting him to talk.

So kudos to them, because in court, the confession is going to be a major issue that the defense will try to try to get rid of. You're right, Pat Diaz. That's their number one goal at trial. They're going to try to have this confession thrown out. And when it comes to minors making a confession, it also came to the forefront in the Teresa Hallback murder. Who is that? That is the young photographer that was murdered by the star of Making a Murderer. Remember that? Stephen Avery. And it was portrayed that he was innocent, that Avery had been framed. Also along for the ride was his young relative, Brendan Dassey. In Dassey's case, there was permission to interview Dassey, a then teen.

And as much as everyone argued, well, Dassey didn't have the wherewithal to make this statement. That's a double edged sword, because what it also means is he didn't have the wherewithal to create a fabricated statement with this much detail in which he admitted to raping Teresa Hall back and that his uncle murdered her, Stephen Avery. That was an example of a teen statement coming to the forefront and whether he was properly Mirandized because a juvenile, there's heightened responsibilities with regard to law enforcement in terms of Mirandizing, making sure they understand contacting parents. And this is a 13 year old boy. And of course he's accused of killing his mother. So that's going to make it even a little more convoluted in terms of was anybody contacted on his behalf before they spoke with him? And did he waive his Miranda rights? And did he understand and completely voluntarily make the statement? So those are all issues that the

court is going to have to scrutinize with regard to his statement. You are hearing high profile lawyer Matthew Mangino joining us out of the Pennsylvania jurisdiction. He has prosecuted juveniles and defended juveniles. He is former district attorney and author of The Executioner's Toll. Listen to this. The crimes, arrests, trials, appeals, and last meals, final words and executions of 46 people in the U.S. Let's listen to more why this statement is so important to the prosecution. Take a listen. What type of, what type of knife was it?

Do you know? It was a big, big, big knife. That big? Yeah. What color was the, the, the handle? Purple. Purple? Yes.

Okay. Uh, did you all see him? Purple? Yes. Okay. Your mom's student? Yes, your student. Now, this is important, what you just heard, because here the honor student, 13-year-old Derek Rosa, is explaining about the knife. He says, it's a big seven-inch knife with a purple handle. My mom was sleeping. He's fully cognizant of all the facts surrounding the murder of his own mother. His mom had just given birth to the

baby sister. And in the Nanny Cam video, you see him hovering around the mom and around the baby sister who's sleeping in the same room with the mom. Listen to more. From New Orleans? Yes, from New Orleans. I know a little while. Okay, and how long have you known him? Since the day I was 10. Three years. Three years. Have you ever met him? No, I've seen his face.

You've seen his face? Yeah. So how did you communicate with him? My cell phone. Okay, let me understand what I'm just hearing. Alexis Terescheck joining us, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. He called his friends. Explain. joining us crimeonline.com investigative reporter he called his friends explain and and i'm hearing

where are the friends and they are in sweden these are friends that he's met online so these are not schoolmates these are not kids that he hangs out with after school these are kids that he's met online and or friends that he's met online so he he messages them afterwards he sends three pictures he shows in fact their whole hands held up and there's blood dripping on his hands so he he is bragging about this crime immediately after committing it i killed my mom look here's the here's the bloody proof of it. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Let me go to Karen Stark joining us.

We're an announced psychologist, TV, radio trauma expert at KarenStark.com. Karen with a C. Karen, it's one thing if he's calling the friend or texting the friend and saying, Oh, my stars, I've done this horrible thing. What am I going to do? Or I can't believe I did this. But according to Alexis Tereschuk, he's kind of bragging. He's not just bragging Nancy, he sticks out his tongue, he's smiling. He was actually

excited about what he did. So this, this boy is a very, very confused adolescent. He absolutely doesn't understand how awful his crime is, as far as I can tell, because he's laughing and excited and showing the blood. Laughing and excited and showing the blood. Alexis Tereshchuk, is that true? Yes, it's absolutely true. He's showing off the blood on his hands because he stabbed his mom. He was very close to her. He didn't shoot her.

He was right close to her. He didn't shoot her. He was right next to her. And in fact, he had been searching online for the best places to stab where we'd cause the most harm. So this was something that he had been looking up prior to killing his mom. Alexis Teresha, you're just a fountain of information, aren't you? And none of it good.

Well, I guess it's good if you're looking at the probative nature of it, like what does it prove? But it's very disheartening, Alexis Tereshak, as a mom of a young teen, very similar to Derek Rosa, honor student, sweet natured, mild, timid, seemingly, but suddenly out of the blue. I don't know what to make of that. And he went to a good school. There were never any complaints. He seemed very excited that his mom was having a baby. The baby was only two weeks old, a little sister. He had posed for pictures with his stepdad and with his mom when she was pregnant, really all in pink polo shirts showing off how excited they were about the baby. There were no signs ahead of time, nothing at school.

Nobody had ever said that he was in trouble. No fights with friends, no fights with the parents. CPS hadn't been called to the home completely to everybody outside of it, out of the blue. Karen, you were jumping in, Karen Stark. Yeah, I wanted to add, and we've heard this kind of stuff before, but not from a young adolescent, that he said that he wanted to shoot himself afterwards, that he wanted to kill himself.

But he didn't. And speaking of those Google searches, take a listen to this. The night Derek Rosa allegedly stabs his mother to death, he makes six Google searches that include what is the best place to stab someone? Is a small knife good for killing? Is it easier to kill someone with a small knife? Can a knife cut through bone? And a request for a diagram of the cardioid artery.

The Daily Mail reports the last search made that night was to inquire about a machine gun. I mean, he's looking up the the cardioid artery. The Daily Mail reports the last search made that night was to inquire about a machine gun. I mean, he's looking up the carotid artery. Dr. Kendall Crowns joining us, chief medical examiner joining us out of Tarrant County, that's Fort Worth, lecturer, University of Texas, Austin, and TCU, Texas Christian University Medical School. Dr. Kendall Crowns, I don't know how you do it all. How many autopsies do you think you have performed in life? Probably close to around 10,000. You know, when people ask me how many cases I've handled, and I say around 10,000, it doesn't seem real. But when you look back, it is real. Because I would get 100 new cases a week from the grand jury at least. Or even if you wanted to go by a month. And you do that every month for 10 years.

Yes, that's a lot. Same with you. You don't count them as they're happening but you look back and realize wow that's a lot of autopsies and in your experience could you explain is there any way to recover when someone has their carotid artery severed. Let's just start. What is the carotid artery? So the carotid artery is a vessel in your neck that is taking blood from your heart to your brain, basically. And you have two of them, one on either side of your neck. And they're pretty good size. They're about the big around as a ballpoint pen diameter.

And they sit right underneath the muscles on either side of your neck. So they're really close to the surface. So when you get your carotid artery cut, you usually can bleed out in a matter of minutes. How many minutes? I'd say under four. And question, we've all seen movies. I've actually seen a victim whose carotid artery had been sliced, but it was post-mortem after death. Is this the kind of wound, basically, there's no coming back from that, but does the wound pulse with the beating of the heart yes so it's uh it's an artery so it's had the pressurized blood is still there so it will

spurt and shoot blood out of it you can try and close it off because you have a second one it'll still get blood to the brain so you can pinch it off and you can still be saved, but you have to get immediate medical treatment. A good example is there was a hockey player recently got his neck spliced by a skate and he died even though he had help right away. So it's a significant vessel to get cut and you need help immediately. And even if you get help immediately, they can't always save you. And the reason I'm asking about the pulsing nature of the bleeding is because the boy in this case, 13-year-old honor student Derek Rosa, was literally covered in blood. It was an extremely

bloody crime scene. Is that why, Dr. Crowns? It's part of it. I mean, she would be, the blood would be spurting out. It would be getting all over her, all over the place, even on him. And if he continues to stab her, it would be getting on him as he continued to stab her. And then whatever else he's stabbing would also bleed on him as well. Okay. Let's hear more of what we've recently obtained, the actual confession given by this teen honors student. Listen. Did you?

What did he tell you? So you're going to leave? Okay. So Sweden, you lived out here? Is it real far? Real far. Real far? Yeah.

Okay. So then you hung up the phone? She wanted me to go by. Okay. And then what did you do? I was going to show myself but I said I didn't want to be in a car. Okay. And what did you tell Anna? She said I want to talk about his demeanor as he's relaying killing his mom.

I mean, Karen Stark, I think I need a trauma expert right now because when I think back about when my dad passed away or when my fiance Keith was murdered, even now, I typically don't like talking about it. I don't like when people bring it up, especially unexpectedly. But if I allow myself to think about it, it's still very, very upsetting. And this honor student is talking very methodically and stoically. He doesn't seem upset at all. Nancy, while you're describing what you feel or I feel having lost a dad, we're having feelings, right? Emotions. But now we're talking about someone who's disassociated, which means that he's separated from his feelings. He's not in touch with any emotional response. And it's really hard to understand what's going on with this boy because of that. It's confusing because he doesn't seem to, he's laughing afterwards.

He doesn't seem to be having any kind of an emotional response, like he's cut off. And usually that happens with somebody who has a criminal mentality, who has no feeling, no conscience, and doesn't understand what they did. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a minute right there. When you say the words, doesn't understand what they did, you're triggering all sorts of legal alarm bells in my mind because someone doesn't understand what they did. Translation doesn't understand right from wrong. That is a legal definition of insanity. This kid is not insane. He's not insane. He's not insane, but he's cut off from, I don't believe that he grasped the full extent of what happened until it seems like now he doesn't want to say it to his mother. Well, you know what?

That's you putting your layer of interpretation on him. He doesn't understand. He took the pictures covered in blood and sent them to two of his friends online. He understands. He killed his mom. She's dead. She's not coming back. And as a matter of fact,

I want you to hear a little bit more of what he said. Listen to our cut 21. We're still hearing the recently obtained confession by the 13-year-old honor student who stabs his mom dead. She's lying next to her infant baby girl. Listen. Let's get back to your mom. Okay, you said she her infant baby girl. Listen. I remember you had a couple of sets. Okay, I stabbed you. Do you know what that's called?

An army or something. An army? Yeah. Okay. And you purposely went for that army? What do you think? I purposely went for that army. Okay.

Was there a lot of blood after? There was a ton of blood on the floor. Okay. Did you tether anything before you sat there? Did you say anything? I said curse words in Spanish. Curse words in Spanish? But she did wake up when you...

She was asleep when you sat there? Yes, and then she woke up after I sat there. crime stories with nancy grace okay let me understand what i'm hearing she will just leave when you stop. Yes, and then she will go back to seven. Okay, let me understand what I'm hearing. Alexis Tereschuk joining us from CrimeOnline.com. He's saying that he said a curse word to his mom in Spanish. It was merican, which is a homosexual slur to my understanding. That's what he said. Is that correct?

Yes. It's just, it's mind-boggling that this child says that he said this bad thing to her, and then he stabs her 48 times while she's sleeping. And I feel like it's something important to point out that she's fully asleep in her bed and really didn't even fight back because this was so quick and so violent. Because it was right at 11 as the baby monitor cam shows, it was set up to look in the crib, which was right next to the bed. And he is shown there at 11 o'clock. And then 30 minutes later, he's already sent messages to his friends and he's already called the police.

This was super fast. She was not awake. She really didn't even fight back against this because he was so strong. And he's not a big kid. He's still like a young tween.'s so young and and not that big hulking child or anything like that he's skinny skinny arms and yet managed to do all this but yes he says that he he said something he called her a bad word in spanish yeah i don't even understand the context is that matthew man jump in yes so nancy i mean obviously you know this is a crime of rage. I don't know how this slur works into this, the overall intent here. But, you know, to stab somebody, your mother, 48 times, you're really, you know, enraged. I mean, you're wanting to do. And what is that supposed to mean to me that he's enraged?

That's not a defense. So I don't care. You can't say, oh, I did it, but I was angry. Angry is not a defense, Matthew Mangino. Well, I'd like to know why a 13-year-old boy would make a homosexual slur toward his mother and stab her 48 times. Yeah, I'd like to know, too. But unless it rises to insanity, it doesn't change the outcome of these facts. If he's legally insane, then he should not go to jury indicts you, what's happened here, you can't even charge a 14 year old, you know, with with murder. I mean, you know, I mean, a 13 year old,

you know, under under the age of 14. Yes, it's going to have to be a grand jury indictment. And it was so. And Nancy, can I add one thing else about this? Please do. Is this Pat Diaz? Yes, it's Pat Diaz. And one of the things that we have to remind ourselves is in south florida law enforcement puts that video on the minute they walk into the room and it doesn't turn off until the end so you're capturing everything he says from the minute he's the detectives talk to him so that makes that confession very important now haven't had cases of an individual this young who who committed a murder many years ago we know it's going to go to grand jury we know there's going to be doctors involved but when it comes to his statement it's going to be clearly seen and it's clearly seen

that's why they released all this video showing that he did understand he was saying what happened clearly he wasn't confused he wasn't even showing any emotion and important things to know that the video doesn't turn off and on it stays on the entire time so i think that's an important aspect of this case that in south florida the police we videotape from the minute they come in to the end there is no break in the video there's no so there's no pre you know questioning like they used to do in the old is no break in the video. So there's no pre-questioning like they used to do in the old days. No. From the minute he comes in and sits down, that video

turns on. I'm glad to hear that. I'm glad to hear that. And guys, speaking of that video we've just obtained, take a listen to more. And then she will go, yes. Did you say anything after her? Did she say anything to you? No, she's screaming. She's just screaming. Yes. Did you say anything else to her? Did she say anything to you? No, she screamed.

She just screamed? Yes. Why? Um, why did you stab your mom? Because it doesn't matter. Yes, of course. Man, saved by the bell. The million dollar question, why did you stab your mom?

Can I go to the bathroom? That's what happened, and this is what happens when he comes back from the bathroom. Listen. So if you were about to tell me the why, why did you tell your mother? Do you know? Let's see now. Why did you tell your mother? Do you know? Does that say it now? Yeah, yeah, off your chest, absolutely. Okay, at this point, you want to order?

We can't... No, listen, listen. Just so you understand, okay? You have mentioned or asked us, should wait for a lawyer. We're not here to advise you on whether to talk to a lawyer or not. That's in the future, okay? But if you are requesting a lawyer at this point, we can't interview you any further. And second, we have to stop the interview. Do you want us to stop the interview? Yes. So we never get the answer, why did you stab your mom? Of course, the lawyers are doing backflips to get this confession thrown out of evidence and they want it sealed so no one can ever see it. Listen to our friend Nicole Parton. Attorneys failed at keeping the police interview sealed. And in the interview, Rosa tells officers he had fallen asleep. When he woke up, he goes to the kitchen, grabs a knife, and begins stabbing his mother while she sleeps.

His mother wakes up and screams, but his little sister did not wake up during the attack. So the defense lawyers wanted it sealed so we could never see it, but they failed. Why is that, Matthew Mangino? Is it the FOIA, Freedom of Information Act? Is it that Florida has the Sunshine Law? Everything's out in the open. Why was this released? Well, I mean, there has to be, you know, a reason, a sufficient reason for the court to seal a record. Obviously, if there is a statement that's made that's relevant, I mean, the courts always want to be open as much as possible. They want the opportunity for the public to be able to scrutinize a record, maybe because it would embarrass people who aren't directly related to the case and things like that.

Well, another thing is, if this does go to trial, this will be introduced, I believe. So, therefore, it's not something that may never come to the jury's purview. This will come before a jury. It's not like the judge is unsealing something that a jury should not or would not know about. They're going to see this and they're going to hear this, but it's not necessarily just this that I believe, makes me believe Derek Rosa will be convicted for murdering his mother, stabbing her 48 times. It's not just what he did at the time of the stabbing. It's what he did after. Take a listen to Rachel Bonilla, Crime Online, cut 33. When officers arrive at the scene of the attack, they find Garcia left splayed on the floor with dozens of knife wounds, including a slashed artery

in her neck. Laying near her deceased mother is her two-week-old baby still laying in her crib. As part of the grisly display, the Daily Mail reports 13-year-old Derek Rosa takes a smiling selfie sticking his tongue out with what appears to be blood smeared on his hands. Rosa sends the photo to a friend right after the killing. Okay, that visual is something I'm not going to get out of my mind anytime soon, Karen Stark. Well, Nancy, I mean, that makes perfect sense because we're talking about a 13-year-old who seemingly has no conscience whatsoever. I mean, he's actually enjoying the fact that he just did that. And that's really hard for everybody to really comprehend. How can that be that this boy who was an honor student, had no history of any kind of violence,

wakes up in the night and decides to kill his mother, and they find her on the floor. She even wakes up and she screams. And he doesn't pay attention. He could care less. And then he's rejoicing. You have been hearing a recently obtained confession by the honor student accused of stabbing his mother 48 times. Now, interesting, he left the baby sister. There's been a lot of speculation that he was angry that his mom had had a baby, that he was now having to split her affections with the baby. And he actually addresses the baby in the original 911 call. Take a listen. Now, if you've heard Derek Rose speaking to investigators, listen to him on his original 911 call.

After he stabs his mother and sends bloody selfies to his friends, he calls 911. Take a listen to our cut one. 911, what's the status of your emergency? Okay. Where else did you stab her other than cutting her neck? Where is your sister? She's in her crib sleeping neck? Where is your sister? She's in her crib sleeping. I did not touch her.

How old is your sister? She's only like a week old. Okay, and you did not touch her, correct? No, I did not touch her. I didn't want to touch my sister. I need to know if your mom is breathing. She said, miss. I have the gun with me. I was going to shoot myself, but I didn't want to. I didn't want to. Okay, let me understand something.

Pat Diaz, it's almost as if he wants an A-plus for not murdering his sister, his baby sister as well. So I'm trying to make sense of him almost bragging, no, I didn't want to hurt my sister, but yet I stabbed my mom 48 times. Exactly. And this is without his confessional, the phone call when the jury would hear his phone call is enough to convict him. But just the fact that his mental state of mind, that he was able to articulate what he did, makes a huge difference when it goes in front of a grand jury

or in front of a jury, period. And that's what everybody's going to see and hear is how he articulates what happened and what he did do and what he didn't do. So he basically gave a second confession independent of the police. So that's another issue that the defense attorneys will have to deal with in court. You're right, Pat Diaz. The confession he gave to police, which has all been recorded, which we've played for you now,

is corroborating, as Pat Diaz has just pointed out, the 911 call. He describes not only stabbing his mother, not touching his infant sister, but he goes on to describe what he did after the murder. Take a listen to our cut to the 911 original call. I need to know, do you think we can help your mom? She's dead. I have more family members. They can take care of my sister. I took pictures and I told my friends about it. Was that bad? You told who about it? My friends. Your friends? Did you send pictures to your friends of what you did? Yeah. I didn't delete the pictures off my phone, but I sent them to him. And I told him that I was sorry, and then I said goodbye.

I'm okay. I'm really sorry. I'm okay. It's all about him. I mean, Matthew Mangino, the law is very clear. And I'm quoting directly the black and white letter of the law. One may immediately regret the deed. But that regret does not negate intent at the time of the act, Matthew Mangino. Well, yeah, I mean, the intent is what you form before you act. You know, your regret after you've acted does not negate the intent to kill. So certainly,

you may have regretted it, but you formed the proper intent to carry it out and you did carry it out. So that is in no way a defense. Maybe it's mitigation in some way, but it's not a defense. Also, he goes on in further detail to describe

sending the bloody selfies to friends. What do you think a jury's going to make of this? Let's start cut 12. I need to know if your mom is breathing. She said, miss, there's blood all over the floor. Okay, why did you kill your mom? I need to know.

Do you think we can help your mom? Miss, she said, can you bring the police over here where I live? What is your address? Miss. Yes. I took pictures and I told my friends about it. Was that bad? You told who about it?

My friends. Your friends? Did you send pictures to your friends of what you did? Yeah. Do not open until I tell you to open the door and to make sure that you have nothing but your cell phone in your hand. Are they going to kill me?

No, they're not going to kill you. We're here to help you, okay? We're going to help your family, okay? In addition to these recordings, there is heart-stopping baby cam video showing this Florida honors student age 13 standing over his mother's bed just an instant before he stabbed her dead as a newborn sister is sleeping nearby. Now again the last time that Derek Rosa appears in court his father is asking for leniency and mercy, just as he did before. Take a listen to Jose Rosa in court. It's hard for us to explain how this occurred. You know, it's difficult, but I guess what we're

asking for is another opportunity. It's a second chance to help him grow and become mature as a grown man, to put this behind him and say, we have your back. We're here to support you. It's very unfortunate that this tragedy occurred, but this child is very humble, very peaceful. That may all be true, but he is also a killer, which leaves prosecutors and judges in the horrible position of trying to figure out what is the right thing to do. And I have faced that on many, many occasions. What is the right thing to do? And Karen Stark, you and I very often disagreed because when I'm overwhelmed trying to make a right decision, like in a plea negotiation or suggesting a sentence, recommending a sentence

at the end of a trial, when I don't know what to do, I directly follow the black and white letter of the law. And under the law, if he is not insane, he must go to prison. Of course, a juvenile facility until he's 21, and then he would finish out his sentence in an adult facility after he is of age. Well, Nancy, but the thing is, this is a 13-year-old. He's not an adult. So this is where it becomes very difficult to decide what to do because you can't even give a diagnosis of psychopathy when you're talking about someone who's 13. You can talk about conduct disorder with callous and unemotional traits, which is where I would say this particular child fits. You know what, Karen Stark? You bring him home to your penthouse apartment in Manhattan, and you let him stay there. Because everybody that says he needs lenient treatment, you take him home, okay? Because there is no way in H-E-L-L that I would have him around my children. Now, is that harsh?

Yes. Is it true? Yes. And very often, the truth doesn't taste very good going down. But I mean, Alexis Tereschuk, you want to bring him home and let a baby sit for your baby? Oh, hell no. He's actually being held in an adult jail right now. But he is segregated from the population.

And it's because of the charge that he has. Alexis Tereschuk, what is next for this honors student killer? They requested to go back to the apartment by themselves and take videos and pictures for their side of the case. The judge really and the prosecutors really fought against this, but the judge allowed it. So the defense team went to the apartment. They were allowed to be in there for three hours and the prosecutors were not allowed in there with them. And then that is all they can do there because the stepfather has given up the lease for the apartment. He says he wants to move. He cannot be there anymore. It's way too painful for him.

So he's moving on. And they are still, his lawyers are still trying to work with the prosecutors because they do not want him tried as an adult. But as of right now, he's going to be tried as an adult. It's going to be a plea. Watch. We wait as justice unfolds. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.