Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - HORRIFIC SCHOOL SHOOTING SPAWNS REALITY SHOW?

Episode Date: September 19, 2022

Nicolas Cruz pleaded guilty to killing 17 people, including students and teachers at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida. The penalty phase of the trial is underway with jurors being asked to decide whether Cruz should spend the rest of his life in prison or be sentenced to death. So far there have been 11 days of defense testimony, including the shooter's biological sister, who did not grow up in the same household as Cruz. During her testimony, she was asked about her mother's use of heavy use of alcohol while pregnant and her knowledge of a reality show based on another brother, Zachary Cruz.   A heated exchange between the judge and the defense has resulted in a motion being filed by the defense for Judge Elizabeth Scherer to remove herself from the case. When the defense suddenly rested its case without notice, Scherer called the defense decision  "the most uncalled for, unprofessional way to try a case."  The defense had indicated an intention to call 40 witnesses but rested after only 25. The sudden announcement meant prosecutors weren't ready to start their rebuttal case. Joining Nancy Grace Today: Dale Carson - High Profile Attorney (Jacksonville), Former FBI Agent, Former Police Officer (Miami-Dade County), Author: "Arrest-Proof Yourself, DaleCarsonLaw.com Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst (Beverly Hills, CA), DrBethanyMarshall.com, New Netflix show: 'Bling Empire' (Beverly Hills) Sheryl McCollum - Forensic Expert, Founder: Cold Case Investigative Research Institute in Atlanta, GA, ColdCaseCrimes.org, @ColdCaseTips   ME - Dr. Priya Banerjee, M.D. - Board Certified Forensic Pathologist, Anchor Forensic Pathology Consulting, Assistant Medical Examiner Andy Kahan - Director of Victim Services and Advocacy at Crime Stoppers of Houston, crime-stoppers.org, Facebook: "Andy Kahan and Crime Stoppers of Houston", Twitter: @AKahanCrimeSto1, Instagram: @AndyVictimAdvocate  David Ovalle - Crime Reporter, Miami Herald, Twitter: @davidovalle305, MiamiHerald.com See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Parkland. The Parkland shooting. Words that will be ingrained in our memories, our children's memories from now on. 14 students massacred, three staff, all dead at the hands of the Parkland shooter, Nicholas Cruz. And now, believe it or not, that mass murder has spawned a reality show. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. Where did it all start? Take a listen to this. My son is in Stolming-Doneman Douglas High School. He said he heard

noises in top and he thinks there's a shooting going on at the school. Okay, we do have police on scene. 911, what is your emergency? I think I hear gunshots. What is the address where you heard it, sir? I don't know. I'm in Parkland, Ohio. It sounds like it's over towards the high school, over towards Douglas. Might have been gunshots maybe 15 minutes ago or so, and then I just heard four or five right in a row just a few minutes ago. What you don't want to hear. A 911 call about gunshots near a high school. Listen.

911, what is your emergency? Hello? Yes, there's shots at Stubborn Douglas. Someone's shooting up the school at Stubborn Douglas. I'm sorry, I can't hear you. What's happening? Someone is doing what? Hello? Hello? Hello?

Is being shot up. It's being shot up? Are you at the school? I can't hear you. Are you at the school? The 911 call are trying to whisper into the phone that the school is being shot up and then hangs up. Joining me, an all-star panel, but first I want to go to David Avalle, crime reporter, Miami Herald. David, thank you for being with us. Why was the 911 caller whispering? Well, the 911 caller was whispering

because there was a shooter inside that was shooting up the school. And of course, you know, just like we saw in Uvalde and other places where we have people who are desperately calling 9-1-1 from inside the premises on on these school shootings. So that 9-1-1 caller is actually inside Marjorie Stoneman while trying to call 9-1-1 and he's trying to whisper so the shooter doesn't see him. He's trying to not attract the shooter's attention. Yes. And, you know, this was obviously a huge, stunning event for a lot of the students that were there. So there was a lot of confusion about where the shooter was, where, you know, when help was coming, whether whether um you know whether there was more than one

shooter right so a lot of confusion so that's why they had enhanced the whispering take a listen now to our friends at abc at two in the afternoon gunshots ring out in this south florida high school terrified students hiding in classrooms during the gunman's rampage oh my god the shooter reportedly first pulled a fire alarm to get more students out of the classroom, maximizing potential victims. As soon as the fire drill got pulled, the fire alarm got pulled, and kids were evacuating. I heard five pops. He was just very focused. He was very focused on what he was doing. I was in the classroom, and all of my ear was shocked, and I was just like, oh my gosh, what's happening? And we're just sitting on the floor and we're just panicking.

Why would anyone want to capitalize and make blood money off the parkland shooting with a reality show? Aren't these 911 calls all the reality we need? Here are our friends from ABC. SWAT teams swarming the perimeter, searching the school, then moving inside. I have the gunshot victim. He's by the entrance on the west side of the school. Do you know where the shooter is? We don't know, but we're in the building. Erica Duvall filming this video as she and classmates were rescued by a SWAT team.

Terrified children let out from their hiding places with hands in the air. Students in this classroom waiting in horror for help to arrive. Outside, chaos. Students streaming out of the building, some running, many with their hands on their heads, a sea of backpacks abandoned on the ground, emergency vehicles rushing of the building, some running, many with their hands on their heads, a sea of backpacks abandoned on the ground. Emergency vehicles rushing to the scene, paramedics in a race to save the wounded. Scenes of relief as parents comforted children who reached safety. This mother was actually right outside the school when the gunfire began.

What did you hear? What did you see? I heard bang, bang, bang see i heard bang bang bang bang and then i texted him at my other son found out that my other son got out found him at walmart brought him home with a few friends nearly 20 people dead the halls and classrooms of the school read with blood and finally an arrest listen at 3 p.m the shooter is still at large, but now a possible description. White male, burgundy shirt, wearing a black hat, and either long black pants or shorts.

He mixed in with a group of students that were running left down. Just before 4 p.m., the 19-year-old suspect, Nicholas Cruz, captured and taken into custody. Straight back out to David Valle, joining us, the Miami Herald investigative crime reporter. David, for those people that are not familiar with the Parkland shooting and how anyone could consider making a reality show out of anything to do with the Parkland shooter is beyond me. Please jog the memories of people that are not familiar with the shooting. Well, the shooting is Florida's deadliest and bloodiest school shooting in Florida history.

It happened on February 14th, 2018. And this was when Nicholas Cruz, who had been a former student at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High, took an Uber to the school carrying his rifle case with an AR-15 style rifle and basically got out in a very calculated and methodical rampage where he started on the first floor and began shooting at students in the hallways and then through the windows of the classrooms and then um you know went up to the third floor and at the end of the rampage he had killed 17 people 14 of them students three staff members before um before uh fleeing and eventually he was caught, you know, within a couple hours. So this was a huge,

huge event in Florida. It spurred some gun reform laws and spurred, you know, activism by students, and really was sort of this really heartbreaking seminal event for people here in South Florida, and it was one that I think is going to be seared into our collective memories, particularly parents for many years to come. Even parents that were not involved in the shooting, not even near Parkland, Florida at the time of the shooting. Now every time I drop my children off at school, I think about Parkland at least once or twice a month dropping them off because Cheryl McCollum joining me

Cheryl McCollum forensic expert founder director of the Cold Case Research Institute she's at coldcasecrimes.org Cheryl McCollum the way Parkland shooting and I know Cheryl and Andy Kahn

with me along with the rest of the panel, we're talking about the fact that a reality show, I feel like I'm eating a dirt sandwich right now, is happening as it relates to the Parkland massacre. I know that's what we're here today talking about, but back to the crime itself, Cheryl McCollum, it was so well thought out. And even the getaway, how Nicholas Cruz blended in with all the students that were leaving and just walked away. What more can you tell us about the planning aspects and the crime scene? What went down at the Parkland shooting, Cheryl McCollum? What more can you tell us about the planning aspects and the crime scene? What went down at the Parkland shooting, Cheryl McCollum? Well, Nancy, he was prepared to do mass damage.

He had plenty of ammunition. He had an AR-15. He had planned how he was going to enter the school. Again, he took an Uber, so he had a way there. He was going to blend in after the massacre and he literally walked away and went to McDonald's. Walked away. Jump in. The most remarkable thing to me is that he pulled the fire alarm. I mean, that shows a hostility that is without compare to these other crimes. To get people out of the classrooms and to kill them.

Why do you say that? Dale Carson joining me, high profile lawyer out of Jacksonville, also in the Florida jurisdiction and former fed as an FBI agent, author of Arrest Proof Yourself. He's at DaleCarsonLaw.com. Go ahead, Dale. If you want to elevate your kill count, that's what you do. You put them in the hallway where it's a narrow confined space and you just spray the area until you run out of ammunition throw in another dang um set of rounds and fire again and that's precisely what happened Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

You know, Dr. Bethany Marshall, I'm gettingalyst, joining me out of Beverly Hills at drbethanymarshall.com and star of Netflix, Bling Empire. Dr. Bethany, I'm going to get to the reality show, I promise. But the thinking, I mean, the state doesn't have to prove a motive. And the trial is happening right now on the Parkland shooting. Believe it or not, it's taken this long to go to trial. But, that said, I'm going to get to the reality show aspect, but the thinking

what would have led Cruz to do such a horrible thing. I mean, he had already been kicked out of school, off campus. Right. Everyone in charge of the school had been told, if you see this guy, kick him off. And here he shows up on campus. Everybody knows who he is. And he is walking

across campus with a loaded backpack. Gee, I wonder what's in there. Right. You know, Nancy, we don't even have to theorize about what's in his mind because there's so much research about school shooters and it all points to the same kind of motivations he had. They are a heterogeneous group, meaning no two are alike. They are not mentally ill. These are normal young men usually. Usually they've had a series of losses and we know Cruz's adoptive mother died three months before the shooting. Usually they are what we call grudge collectors. Every little perceived bad happening in their life, they glom onto, they collect, they perseverate, they obsess about those until they have built a case against

society. They always have what I've said so many times on your show before, they always adopt a fish in a barrel type strategy, meaning they stand at the top of a staircase, they go into a school room and they lock the doors so that the kids can't get out. They really are seeking a power differential where they are in charge. They have this pathological perception leading up to the shooting, the mass shooting, that they are at the bottom of society and that everybody is against them. So in some strange egomaniacal way, they put themselves at the top by becoming a killing machine. I think it's also interesting that this was on Valentine's Day, the day where we celebrate love. And these shooters often feel they have the misperception of being profoundly unloved.

Whereas usually, like in the case of this killer, there are plenty of resources and people around them to support them. But they feel unloved anyway, and they take it out on society. Dr. Priya Banerjee is with me, board certified forensic pathologist with Anchor Forensic Pathology Consulting. Dr. Priya, thank you for being with us. All of these victims, nearly 20 shooting victims at the hands of Nicholas Cruz, the Parkland shooter, the trial's happening right now, knew, I think many of them knew they were dying. They knew they had been in school, that shots rang out, and suddenly they're in the floor bleeding. Even with a slow or rapid loss of blood, what would a shooting victim know? Would they hear the screaming? Would they hear the

feet running? Would they be aware of their friends trying to crawl out windows and hide behind desks? What would a person, a victim like that, actually understand? What would they be aware of? Thank you for having me. I think, you know, I want to step back to something you said, and then I'll address this point. I'm a mom. And, you know, you and I have dealt in our professional lives with gunshot victims. The ones with rifles are especially heinous. And I just can't even think about it from a personal level. But professionally, you know, when I think about these kids and just, you know, and a few adults dying, unless they're shot in the head, they're going to feel it. They're going to realize it. It could be quick. It could not be quick.

You know, it depends what's injured, but they're going to be aware. It's only once you're shot in the head are you really unconscious. But other than that, I can't imagine the stress, the last moments of their lives being so traumatic. And they're seeing their friends leaving them, crawling out windows, hiding, trying to get out the door, and they're lying there bleeding out. No one's there comforting. Everybody's scurrying away, right? So, like, if you're injured, you're sort of left behind, I hate to say it, because it's a flight or fight response, right? And how are you going to fight a gun?

You're going to run away. Dr. Priya, I know you cannot even begin to estimate how many hundreds, maybe even thousands of gunshot victims you've dealt with. But when you think back on all the gunshot autopsies that you have handled, vulture, a vampire sucking the gore out of the Parkland shooting and creating a reality show.

I mean, you've seen the bodies. You've done the autopsies. It's heinous. You know, as someone who gets interviewed and done a variety of shows, it's never something... I'm always delicate about what I say because it is such... It's an unthinkable loss.

And I am honestly speechless, which is a rarity, to think that there's a reality show. I don't even understand who wants to profit off of this. You know, it's playing at, you know, people's weakest moments. It's just vile to me. Guys, I want you to take a listen to Jeff Marcus, one of the lead attorneys in the prosecution of Nicholas Cruz questioning Danielle Woodard. Are you aware that Richard Moore and Michael Donovan produce a reality TV show? What does that have to do with anything, sir? Ma'am, I'll decide whether or not it's relevant.

If I don't say the objection is sustained or tell you not to answer, then you need to answer the question. Yes, ma'am. Thank you. All right. Are you aware of that? No. Well, then, if she's not aware of it, why did she say,

Is this relevant? Because, you know, when I've got somebody on cross exam and I ask them a question and they turn to the judge and say, is that relevant? That makes me want to know even more about it. Listen one more time. Listen. Are you aware that one of the episodes of the show was called Being Zachary Cruz? Overruled. You can answer.

The what? Are you aware that Richard Moore and Michael Donovan have a show where they have an episode called Being Zachary Cruz as a part of of a reality show are you aware of that no to david avaya joining me crime reporter in that jurisdiction in florida he's with the miami herald who is this woman danielle woodard so danielle is nicholas cru Cruz's biological sister. She did not grow up with Nicholas. Nicholas was born to an alcohol addicted, drug addicted prostitute who gave him up at birth. So Danielle's only contact when she would have been about 12 or so, I think, when he was born. And she saw him as he was born, and then the baby was immediately whisked away to the adoptive parents. So she was the daughter of the biological mom. And so she took the stand in the defense to testify about her mother's behavior, her addiction, her basically drinking nonstop

while she had Nicholas in the womb. And the word she said was, you know, she was poisoned in her, I'm sorry, was polluted in her womb. So that was the purpose of her testifying. She had never met her biological brother outside of that one day. And that was the first time she had seen him. So long story short, it's the shooter's sister, I believe, is somewhere in all of that is the answer.

Yes, the shooter's biological sister. Isn't it also true, David Avalie joining us in Miami Herald, that Nicholas Cruz was then taken in by a very, very loving family that very often would refuse to have him prosecuted when he would lash out at them in violence. Isn't that true? Yes, absolutely. So the adoptive mother had a really, really difficult time raising him. I mean, he was impulsive and he would, you know, bash the wall. Him and his brother would bash the wall. They would, you know, kill animals. They would punch TVs. They were just, you know, tormented. But she kept him. She kept him. She didn't turn him in

and she kept loving him. So he had a loving home regardless of his birth mother. Isn't that true? Correct. That is absolutely true. So this is the Parkland shooter's sister on the stand. And I've got to say to you, Cheryl McCollum, forensic expert, we've been through many, many real-life trials, not TV trials, together. When a witness says, before they answer, is this relevant? Do I have to answer this? That tells me they know darn well what I'm talking about. Oh, they not only know, they don't want it to come out because they think it's going to be detrimental to the person they're trying to protect.

And in this case, it's the defendant. They keep talking about, you know, he didn't have any help. They keep mentioning that. The brother even posted a letter on social media yesterday about he never got the help he needed. He had teachers try to help him, counselors, social workers, therapists, of course, the foster parents. He had psychiatrists, all kinds of people tried to help the whole family. So I think that's something that needs to be stated out loud. This was not a kid that people gave up on. This is not a kid people didn't try to help and care about. Nancy, can I put this in context? He had something called fetal alcohol syndrome,

meaning the mother drank, used drugs during the pregnancy. And in the first trimester, the neurons are in the baby's brain, but they're not yet assigned. They're like floating around. And so when the mother drinks and uses, it's like they all go to the wrong place. That's a really simplistic way of putting it. So what you see is pervasive developmental problems throughout childhood. On the other hand... Okay, can we just pause just a minute? Just a minute. I got nearly 20 dead people, children, in school, on the floor, on Valentine's Day, shot dead.

I've got a very well thought out plan for mass murder. Well, Nancy. I don't want to hear right now that daddy wasn't there and mommy didn't care. Okay. So just if I could say, can I say one more thing? Joining me right now. You tell the victim's family that okay you tell them that dr bethany i dare you i dare you well what i was going to add oh lord she is still okay you know what get it out of your system go ahead i have to say we all have choices throughout life and despite the fetal alcohol syndrome, we all have tremendous neuroplasticity, meaning we change and grow when we get better.

And he had many opportunities to change and reform and he did not take up those opportunities. And so I think that's what stands out to me. Did you get it out? Okay, I said it. Is it all out now? I want to ask a legal question actually, which is, you know, I do expert witness work and I'm brought in for my opinion.

Why is the sister who has no connection, she's a random Joe Schmo in my mind, other than profiting, why is she even on the stand? I would love to hear input on that. I can talk about that. I can answer that. Go ahead, David Avalle. talk about that i can answer that go ahead david avaya she's on the stand because this was not a guilt phase um trial this was the sentencing phase right so this is basically all the mitigation and in florida so she's there to help out her brother yeah basically got it and that's sort of like a character with this kind of thing gotcha dale carson high profile lawyer joining us out of jackson a former fbi agent i think i heard you jumping in what well this is this is mitigation where this kind of thing is. Gotcha. Dale Carson, high-profile lawyer, joining us out of Jacksonville, former FBI agent.

I think I heard you jumping in. What? Well, this is mitigation, and it's the defense presenting all the reasons he couldn't be put to death. Okay, thank you. That's what they're trying to accomplish. Can I... Now, see, Dr. Bethany's got it out of her system.

Dr. Priya has thrown in a legal question, my pathologist. Dale Carson, Cheryl, anything you want to get out of your system before I finally get to go to Andy Kahn? Absolutely. He made a video prior to the massacre where he said he wanted to be notorious. His brother, Zach, visited the crime scene multiple times to the point the police had to charge him with trespassing. He wanted his brother's fame. He wanted his brother's attention. And he has figured out a way to do it on some TV reality show. But I'm going to tell you why it's going to fail. It's

going to fail because you take one child, Nancy, one of those 14 victims had parents, siblings, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, teachers, classmates that survived, neighbors, coaches, Sunday school teachers, scout leaders, dance and music teachers, parents of their friends, mom and dad's coworkers, possibly a whole church congregation. One child represents a thousand people. And then you times that by 17. And then you times it again, the outlier people who hear about it. And then you times it again, the people that aren't affected. We didn't know anybody personally, but I'm a mama first. So I'm affected by every one of these victims. You know, Cheryl McCollum, I said I think about Nicholas Cruz, the Parkland shooter,

maybe once or twice a month after I drop the children off. Well, let me just give a full confession. That doesn't count all the times I go back over there during the day. Just to drive through, see if anyone's walking around with a backpack,

trying to open a door, someone that I've never seen before. Just, I don't know what I'm looking for exactly, but whatever it is, I want to catch it. I want to see an open door that I can close on the side of the school. It really leaves me with the feeling like I don't know exactly what I'm looking for. But I have a sense of dread because of people like Nicholas Cruz that will probably never go away. Joining me right now is a longtime friend, a specialist who inspired me in my first book, Objection. Andy Kahn, Director of Victim Services Advocacy, Crimestoppers Houston

at crimestoppers.org. On Facebook, Andy Kahn and Crimestoppers of Houston, Insta, at AndyVictimAdvocate. Andy, please take a listen to our cut 10. Do you think it would be appropriate to capitalize on the murders of 14 children and 3 staff members at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School by filming or creating a reality show based on being the brother of a mass murder. Okay, ma'am, don't answer the question. I'm sustaining the objection. Judge, I'm doing this very good. Overruled. Andy, jump in. You know, Nancy, I've been doing this a long time, 30-plus years. I've been monitoring the industry, which I labeled murder billy or profiting from crime by selling your personalized items.

Quite frankly, this is the first I have ever seen of a reality show based on a mass murder and school shooter. That's about stoops to the lowest level I've seen. And from a victim's perspective, and I serve on the board of parents of murdered children and surviving family members of homicide, and I've worked with homicide survivors for over 30 years. This is about as nauseating and disgusting as you can imagine when you find out the person who murdered one of your loved ones is now hawking a reality show for pure profit. This is blood money, plain and simple. Shame on this family. The other issue that I really take umbrage is what kind of message are you sending out to other would-be, wannabe copycats that are going, oh, well, if he can do this, I can get my 15 minutes of frame

and everybody's going to be watching what I do. Nobody should care or give a bleep a bleep about what Nicholas Cruz is or any of his so-called family members have to care. You want to do a reality show? Do a reality show on the 17 victims that have to live every day without their loved one. Go ahead and film them going to the gravesite. Go ahead and film them with an empty table, and school shooters like Cruz the infamy and immortality they richly don't deserve by committing some of the most horrific, despicable crimes known to mankind. This is about as low as it gets. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Andy Kahn joining me out of Texas. Andy, do you remember when you and I first met? I do.

Oh, I'll never forget it. I brought you to my office. And I said, look what I got in my duffel bag. That's exactly what I was going to ask you. After we met, we were talking about, Andy Kahn created the phrase murderabilia, the term. He coined the term murderabilia. And we were talking about it. And he said, what you got to see.

What's in my office? I'm like, great. And I don't remember walking there i just remember suddenly we were we got there do you remember what you showed me i probably showed you somebody's hair sample or pieces of clothing or a fingernail clipping from a california-based serial killer would be my first guess. Could you explain to everyone why you showed me a toenail? There's an industry which I discovered that was primarily being, it's an offshoot of the true crime genre. And you have actual people who make a living from procuring items from high profile

killers, serial killers, mass murders, and school shooters. So they solicit items like letters, autographs, artwork. They can get pieces of their clothing. I've got in my office five different hair samples from serial killers, including Charles Manson's hair that was sold in a form of a swastika. A California serial killer named Roy Norris has his fingernail clippings for sale. His partner, Lawrence Bitteker, had his prison-issued socks. And these guys were so sadistic,

they actually recorded their victims' screams on tapes so they can relive them over again. You have seven dealers throughout the country that essentially make a living from selling items from serial killers, mass murderers, and school shooters. The only item I've ever seen prior to this inane reality show that's being peddled was a few days after the Parkland school shooting, somebody was trying to sell rocks from the school that they picked up from where crews had mowed down 17 victims.

So until then, it's been relatively silent until now. I just can't fathom what must be going through the family members realizing that they're capitalizing on the gruesome, horrific deaths of their loved ones. I actually hope, Andy Kahn, that the family members don't know. Is it common knowledge? David Avallie, join me for the Miami Herald. Does everybody know about this? I don't think so. I think it's a pretty minor. I don't know about this? I don't think so. I think it's a pretty minor.

I don't know about that. I just hope that it hasn't been publicized to the point that, well, you know what, they're going to find out about it one way or the other. I know that. I hate that they're going to find out about it ever, but they will. Guys, take a listen to more on this scheme that has given birth to a reality show relating to the Parkland school shooting massacre. Are you aware that Richard Moore has sent thousands of dollars this year alone to Nicholas's cruise commissary account I'm not aware but how do you know it's only him Zachary has his own money too just the attorney asked the question okay if you don't understand you can say

I don't understand or can you repeat it but you can't just fire back your own okay thank you are you aware of that um yes you just told me so you know it seems like she's more knows more than she's letting on and her denials themselves speak volumes um okay to you dale carson is very easy to trace who sends money into a serial a mass shooter's account is it not it's very easy to figure that out that's not a problem at all because you're required to notify the correction facility precisely who you are and where the money's coming from to make sure it's not proceeds from crime or drug boom so yes easy to do so it's happening the reality show as it relates to the parkland school shooting massacre is happening uh hear this promo this is an incredible day he's going to move humanity forward the smile alone I ain't never afraid. I've been lying on the beach getting laid. Look away. I ain't never afraid.

This is an incredible kid. He's going to move humanity forward. The smile alone on that kid can warm the hardest hearts. You're hearing the music, the intro to, quote, Being Zach Cruz. This is Nicholas Cruz's brother. You know, I heard the music and I hear him saying this kid can move humanity forward. What about the victim's families? What about those children that are gunned down? Take a listen to our friends at CrimeOnline.com. Zachary Cruz was allowed to meet with his brother at the police station after the shooting. After that, Zachary was accused of becoming fascinated with his brother's so-called fame. Zachary Cruz was charged with trespassing himself after being warned to stay away from the shooting site he visited at least three times. In a police

report, Zachary told police he had gone to the school to reflect on the school shooting and soak it all in. Prosecutors said, however, that Zachary had been, quote, heard observing how popular Nicholas's name is now and questioned whether the fame would help attract female attention. Zachary was given six months probation for trespassing. After Zachary Cruz's brush with the law, he was taken under the wing of Richard Moore. Moore, along with his husband, Mike Donovan, co-founded bond servicing company Nexus. The pair reached out to help the then 18-year-old. Zachary moved from Florida to Virginia to live with the couple and their son. They had never met prior to the massacre. Moore has attended some of the trial. He has said before that while he doesn't approve of what Cruz did, he believes

nobody should face this alone. On Monday, prosecutors told the jury that Moore had sent thousands of dollars of commissary to Cruz in prison this year alone. To David Avalle joining us, investigative reporter of the Miami Herald, why is this guy, Moore, funneling thousands of dollars to the Parkland shooter? Well, that's a question that we would have loved to have heard. He was supposed to testify as part of this trial, and it turns out the defense ended up resting early. So, yeah, we really don't know. Other than he sort of seems to kind of like the limelight.

I mean, he's been on the media a lot. He's been on local TV. He's sort of interjected himself into this whole thing, taking care of Zachary Cruz, the brother. So, yeah, it's sort of a weird dynamic. And, you know, are they behind the reality show? Yeah, he's the producer. And yeah, it would seem so. OK, well, what do you make of that, Cheryl McCollum? Yeah, I got to jump in, Nancy. It's like he wants fame by proxy. So to me, again, this show will fail. And I'm going to take an opposite position of you.

I believe the families absolutely need to know about it because they need to make anybody that is a potential sponsor of this show to know that there's going to be repercussions if you get involved with this guy. And you support this show in any way that they need to be shut down and boycotted. When I said that, I mean, I hate for them to hear this. Oh, and I get you. Because I know it's going to hurt them. But do they need to know you're absolutely right? Andy Kahn, so these guys, this couple, they glom on to

Nicholas Cruz's brother Zachary who is obsessed with the Parkland shooting a trespassing conviction because he wouldn't stay away from the scene they take him they move him in with them they funnel thousands of dollars

into the shooter's prison account and now they're creating a reality show as it relates to the Parkland shooting. Help me, Andy Kahn. First thing Florida Department of Corrections needs to do, and like all prisons, there's prison rules that stipulate you can't operate a business unless you have approval of the prisons. And there's no way in hell prison officials are going to allow this to be on the approved level. So they need to seize any monies from his commissary account, ill-gotten proceeds from this. This is just the beginning of the merchandising and marketing of Nicholas Cruz, and they're going to come out of the woodwork, especially wherever he

ends up. And if he does end up on death row, all the vultures are going to be reaching out to him. So Florida needs to be prepared for an onslaught of people trying to get Nicholas Cruz to send them items out there to be sold for profit. But this is something that they need to get a handle on now because it's coming. And this is just the first wave of it right here. I am not surprised because the true crime genre has exploded and Sheryl McCollum was spot on. The victim's families, either they are aware of it or they will be made aware of it because most victims' families will actually have a Google alert on the offender so they get notified of any proceedings and news. So it's best that they get apprised of what's happening now as opposed to being shocked when they get a camera put right in front of their face. You're both right.

You're both right. I guess as a crime victim myself, I know how much it would hurt me to find out a reality show had been concocted of my fiance's murder shortly before our wedding. And I just hate for them to go through any more heartbreak. But you and Cheryl are absolutely right, Andy. Completely right. There's a Florida law.

There's a Florida law that prevents people from profiting when they're in custody and convicted. Oh, well, Dale Carson, you know, you're one of the smartest lawyers I know. They're going to say this isn't about Parkland. This is about Nicholas Cruz's brother. And of course, to you, Andy Kahn, what better way to get the cooperation of Nicholas Cruz, the Parkland killer, than to funnel him thousands of dollars and have his brother, his blood brother, his bio brother under their roof. Nicholas Cruz is the name that draws people in, period. And so you've got to remove him from the equation. You've got to totally eliminate his name from getting out there and i think that's one good thing that the media has done lately is by refusing to name mass murderers and school shooters and that's something florida officials

need to do asap david avaya mi Herald, where does the trial stand right now? So where the trial stands now is as the state is ready to embark on its rebuttal case, the defense has actually asked the judge to recuse herself. And the reason being is that when they announced that they were deciding to rest their case, the judge got into a really testy little argument with the defense, the main defense lawyer, and they kind of got into it. And so now they're saying, because she was very critical of their decision to rest, that she is not fair. They don't think they can get an impartial judge on the case as the rest of the case goes forward. Well, that's certainly putting perfume on the pig.

Ending a little early, Dave Valle. The defense said they were calling 80 witnesses. They, I believe, called about 40. So they cut their case in half. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.