Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Hubby Hires 'SPELL CASTER' to HEX WIFE Before She Disappears, BOMBSHELL ARREST

Episode Date: October 20, 2021

Missing mom Maya Millete VANISHES planning daughter's birthday party. Now, her 40-year-old husband, Larry, has been arrested and charged with her murder, but her body is still missing.The 39-year-old mom of three has been missing since January 2021. Larry Millete tells police they had an argument on January 7, 2021. That's the last time Maya was seen.Reports say the husband allegedly devised a murder-for-hire plot targeting his wife’s suspected boyfriend. A source tells Fox News that they frequently heard Larry Millete discuss paying $20,000 to kill Maya Millete’s alleged beau.Reports indicate that Maya Millete had scheduled an appointment with a divorce attorney the same day she disappeared. She tells family members, "If anything happened to me, it would be Larry.”Joining Nancy Grace today: Maricris Drouaillet - Victim's Sister Facebook/Find May/Maya Millete Richard Drouaillet - Victim's Brother-In-Law Matthew Mangino - Attorney, Former District Attorney (Lawrence County), Author: "The Executioner's Toll: The Crimes, Arrests, Trials, Appeals, Last Meals, Final Words and Executions of 46 Persons in the United States"  Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst, www.drbethanymarshall.com, New Netflix show: 'Bling Empire' (Beverly Hills)  Sheryl McCollum - Forensic Expert & Cold Case Investigative Research Institute Founder, ColdCaseCrimes.org, Twitter: @ColdCaseTips Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan" Paul Best - Reporter, FOX News & FOX Business Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. A gorgeous mother of three goes missing, her family distraught. What happened to Maya Millett? End of the last hours, a major break in the case. As the family hung out in the wind and twisted their hands trying to find Maya Maletti, I want you to hear something. I want you to hear Maya herself. Listen. you to hear something i want you to hear maya herself listen I could listen to her play the guitar and sing all day. And what is haunting me right now is the fact that her children, three children, Lazarus has just turned five,

Mayalani has just turned 10, Laura May is just 11. Can you imagine what the children have been going through without their mother? They've got the pictures. They've got her clothes. They can listen to her recordings, but they don't have her. So when I hear her singing and playing her guitar, it's very bittersweet. Again, I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.

With me, an all-star panel to make sense of the breaking news we are just getting right now. First of all, Paul Best, a reporter joining us from Fox News and Fox Business. Joseph Scott Morgan, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and star of a brand new hit series on iHeart Podcast, Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan, founder and director of the Cold Case Research Institute, Cheryl McCollum. You can find her at coldcasecrimes.org. Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst to the stars joining us out of LA. She's the star of a new Netflix series, Bling Empire. Matthew Mangino, former prosecutor in Lawrence County, now a private practice author of The Executioner's Toll. Richard Joulet with me, a family member, and joining me is Maya's sister, Mary Chris.

Mary Chris, I can't imagine what you, the family, have been through. Guys, before we start with Mary Chris, take a listen to Abby Alford, CBS News 8. 39-year-old Maya Millett, who also goes by May, a Chula Vista mother of three who has not been seen since Friday, January 8th. It's been a nightmare. It's been painful, heartbreaking. Her sister, Mary Kirsten Leigh, says that Maya's nine-year-old daughter saw her last inside their San Miguel Ranch home. Her family says that her Jeep and Lexus are still parked at the house. She's always on her phone, but her phone was

been off like the whole day of Friday. Mm-mm. Mm-mm. I mean, right there, Paul Best, you and I have gone round and round and round about Maya. She's last seen in the home according to her own children. Now, see, I have two children, and I'm sure they could tell

you, Paul, the last time that they saw me just a couple of hours ago. They could probably tell you what I was wearing and vice versa. So you've got the children saying this is where mommy is and you've got her Jeep and the vehicles are still in the garage. That should be a big tip off right there. Where is Maya? Yeah, absolutely. The San Diego County District Attorney kind of laid out those curious movements on January 7th. They actually she actually described a triggering event, quote, on January 7th.

Maya's last phone call to a divorce attorney on that day. Later that night, around 8 p.m., Maya sent her last messages to a Facebook group for her family around 8 or so p.m. And then her phone activity stopped, paused for the last time ever on January 8th, just hours later at 1.30 a.m. OK, hold on right there, Paul Best. I'm trying to take in all the information you're giving me. Paul Best has been on the story from the very beginning, Fox News and Fox Business Reporter. So she was using her phone, texting and sending messages the evening before she disappears. Is that right, Paul Best? That is correct, yes. And you know what, Cheryl McCollum, we're seeing this right now in the Gabby Petito, Brian Laundrie manhunt, where cell phones and use of electronic devices may crack the case.

And here we have her there at home the night before she goes missing. Her children say, Mommy was home. That's when I saw her last. It's not like she went hiking. It's not like she went to the mall. It's not like she went hiking. It's not like she went to the mall. It's not like she went out for a jog. We don't have any of that. Do you remember Sherry Papini? What was her first name? Sherry. And she went jogging. And we knew that because she had told her husband she was going jogging. So we knew where she was. For instance, Long Island jogger, Karina Vetrano, she said to

her parents, hey, I'm going to go jogging. We knew where she went. Here, the children are telling us mommy's home the last time they see her. She's using her phone the night before. That tells me a lot. Everything in her world was okay at that time. Yes, no. Well, these patterns are very important. The patterns of her being on social media throughout the day when she was not taking care of the children. She had a habit of contacting her family every single day. And if anybody contacted her, she would respond fairly quickly. What's concerning a little bit is, yes, the children are saying that she's home and that she's been home, but they're not seeing her. You're dead on.

You're dead on. You know what? Wherever I am, the twins find me. If I'm back in my room researching, if I'm up front in the kitchen, wherever I am, they find me. I'll see the door crack and they look in. I mean, they will find you, but they didn't see mommy, but they say she was there. So what gives with that?

Take a listen to our cut number five. This is Vanessa Van Hyft, ABC 10. It appears she took her phone but is not responding. I'd like a text for her, you know, I don't know if she's getting it, but I'd say, hey babe, at least let us know or call someone. Just at least let us know you're okay. Her Jeep is still at home and no one has seen or heard from her. Maya works as a defense contractor at Naval Base San Diego and didn't show up for work on Monday. Miliate says he will continue to search, anxiously awaiting. some, I can feel the effects, you know, but basically I'm just mentally, emotionally and physically drained.

Okay, right there. And you see me exchanging sideways glances with Jackie here in the studio because, I mean, I'm just telling you right there, Dr. Bethany, if you don't know if your wife went to a wine tasting or whether she went hiking, then you've got a very big communications problem. Because if you're going to go wine tasting, it's got to be at a wine event or a vineyard. You're going to need somebody to drive you home, a way to get home. If I were going to go to a wine tasting, I probably would take my husband with me. Also, if I'm going hiking, you say, hey, I'm going hiking on X, the trail. You have the gear, you're dressed to go

hiking. So when your husband says something like, well, she either went to a wine tasting or she went hiking. And I think her friends picked her up. Now, unless David, my husband, has me totally fooled, he's at work right now. He is working on something that I consider to be incredibly boring, some business deal. That's where I think he is. I'm pretty sure, because when he left, he had on a business-looking outfit.

He had his backpack with all of his research and blah, blah, blah, a lot of paper stuffed in there. And he called in route and said, I'm on my way to work. How does this guy not know if his wife went hiking or to a wine tasting? Nancy, there's so many clues our spouses give us. I mean, my husband's a judge. I knew when he left for work this morning that he had a trial. I knew what the trial was about. I had a sense of when the trial was going to end. Cheryl McCollum said something very important, that there are patterns in life. There's patterns to social media, to her social media. If she was

supposed to go to a wine tasting, there would be a pattern of care for the four-year-old child. Who's going to care for the four-year-old? Who's going to care for the 10 or 11-year-old? There would be a pattern of friendship, texting the friends, arranging the rides home. You know, when somebody either, in this case, the husband, gives too many details, I think they're lying, or when their story holds, and it's very vague, they're lying. Bethany, but the dichotomy, if she's either gone hiking or to a wine tasting, that doesn't even make sense to me. What are you going to wear?

Your hiking boots and your shorts and all your gear and your backpack and your helmet and whatever you're going to take to a wine tasting? How do you not know? A wine tasting is like a big party. Okay. No, and with a wine tasting? How do you not know? Wine tasting is like a big party. Okay. No, and with the wine tasting, you have friends, right? So there would be friends who would have been with her. You don't go wine tasting alone.

Yeah, what friend? What friend picked her up? And don't they have a ring doorbell or surveillance in the neighborhood or the home where you see who comes and picks them up. I want to go out to our very special guest joining us. It's Maya's sister, Mary Chris and Richard Joulet. And guys, I feel like I know you because we have been studying this and trying to figure out her disappearance like a Rubik's cube for so many months now. A lot of prayers have gone up regarding the disappearance of your sister, Mary Chris. And I've got to ask the question, I may not know everything my husband's doing all day

long. I may not want to know everything he's doing all day long, but I know this. We have the twins covered. We know who's taking them to school. We know who's picking them up, who's taking them to the orthodontist and to scouts and to this and to that. It's covered. Nobody goes anywhere without the twins being covered.

So who would take care of these babies now, 5, 10, and 11? You know, at that time, you know, it's been just the two of them, Larry and my sister, taking care of the kids. But, you know, that statement from from larry is entirely a lie um we knew that since the beginning um and you mean about the hiking and the wine tasting yeah yeah you know she's she's not considering is this day that weekend is her daughter's 11th birthday. Oh no. Whoa, wait, wait. You just jogged my memory. Memory Mary Chris with me is my sister, Mary Chris. And you and I talked about the birthday. Can I tell you the drama surrounding the twins upcoming birthday, the planning, the invites, the invites, the this, the that, the pizza, the birthday cake.

That's an ordeal grande. That's like a Broadway production. And from what I remember, Maya really planned out the birthday. And there is no way in H-E-L-L she's going to go get a snoot fill at the wine tasting when she's supposed to be doing the birthday. I remember that distinctly. Tell me about the birthday plans for the 11-year-old. Right. It's a snowboarding event for the family.

We were going to take them to Big Bear Resort here in California. So that's her 11-year-old. That's what she wants. She wants, you know, the outdoor stuff. She's very active, so she wants to go snowboarding. And she had planned it to celebrate with family. We rented a cabin in Big Bear. And for her to, you know, not do anything or tell us anything about that birthday party

that is canceled or anything like that birthday party that it was canceled or anything like that, you know, she could have told us. And she's not going to do any wine tasting or any hiking at that time. She's looking forward to celebrating her daughter's 11th birthday.

You know, I found something very interesting that Cheryl McCollum said and she's absolutely correct. Take a listen to Hour Cut 11, Tyler, if you would play that. This is Abby Alford from CBS News 8. Cheryl pointed out the children said mommy's home, but they didn't see her. Listen. Mary Chris says that her sister's bedroom was

locked and she wasn't inside her sister confirms that larry and maya argued the night before she went missing but didn't say about what police say that larry is cooperating they searched the house twice and have not found evidence of a crime and have not issued search warrants but have several detectives investigating maya's disappearance it's so pretty. Maya's family says that she loved the outdoors, hiking, and adored her kids. It's just fun loving. It's just, actually, it just keeps us going. Despite being active outdoors and online, police say she's left no digital footprint. No digital footprint.

I want to go back to Mary Chris Joule and Richard Joule. Let me understand, Richard, what does this mean that she is at home, but the bedroom was locked? Yeah, I guess, Larry, my brother-in-law went out there Friday to check on his sister. And when he got there, Larry said that she had been in her room

for 11 hours that Friday, which is kind of odd because the kids, you have to think who's feeding the kids, who's getting things ready for the weekend. But he knew that there was a big argument on Thursday. So he kind of just left it alone. Maybe she just needed, you know, to air out

or just wanted some time alone. So it's just, it's weird that Larry didn't check up on her. He wasn't even concerned about her well-being. That Friday, it was just kind of like, okay, it's been one day. What's going on? But my brother went, checked it, and then he said, yeah, she's in her room. She's locked. And the next day, my father-in-law, Saturday morning, my father-in-law went to check on his daughter.

And Larry magically had the keys to open the door that Saturday morning and um why didn't they just knock? well I think they did but she just kind of I guess it was more like giving them the benefit of the doubt that you know maybe she just needed some time off because there was a big argument

and he didn't want to intervene in their relationship that much a big argument about what? I don't know. I'm not sure on that. Mary Chris, do you know? Yes. Yes, I knew.

Okay. So, again, you know, 2020 has been a rough, you know, I mean, it's been a rough relationship with them. So, there's been an issue, you know, it's going a rocky relationship with them. So there's been an issue. You know, it's going to be out there anyway. So I'm not going to sugarcoat on my sister. You know, she was linked to someone at work. Okay, wait. Are you trying to tell me the husband thought she was having an affair?

Well, no. She's not. You know, it wasn't confirmed. But he is accusing her. Okay, so they're having a fight because he's suspicious of a co-worker. Correct. It wasn't confirmed, but he is accusing her. Okay, so they're having a fight because he's suspicious of a co-worker. Correct. Okay, now what I don't get is why they don't just on the door. Tyler, please play our cut 12.

This is investigative producer CBS News 8, David Gofferson. I went in the house. I immediately noticed the windows all open, the fans on full blast. It was chilly in the house. Attorney Billy Little went inside the Chula Vista home of Maya Millett on Monday, January 11th and conducted a walkthrough with her husband, Larry, days after the woman went missing. I was mostly at that point seeing if I could smell anything, if I could smell any bleach or smell the smell of a dead body. And of course, there's absolutely no smell. Family members confirmed they contacted Little to help them find the missing mother of three. When I went

to the bedroom, I immediately noticed a hole probably 10 inches long by about six to eight inches tall, rectangular shape that had been freshly repaired. Okay, wait a minute. So there's a big hole in the bedroom door that has just been repaired. Her sister, her brother, all very disturbed. The children say mommy's home, but nobody can see her. She won't answer the bedroom door. Tyler, please play our cut 13. Again, David Gottfredson. For months now, Little has been collecting evidence, including hundreds of text messages

sent in 2020 by Maya's husband, Larry, to friends and family. He started by complaining to family members. He started by accusing his wife of having, may have having an affair, going to her supervisor, insisting that male co-workers be moved with absolutely no evidence that there was an affair going on. Some of the messages included photos. This one looks like an altar with lit candles. Others include biblical quotes talking about adulterous women, like this one saying, her feet go down to death, her steps lead straight to the grave. It started ramping up as 2020 went on and as May started moving more and more towards

a divorce, he became more and more desperate. Little says the day Maya contacted the divorce attorney is the last day anybody heard from her. I am very, very concerned and was concerned when I first heard about this, I guess, hate shrine built to Maya. Do you, could you describe that for me, Mary Chris? You know, everyone else, I didn't see, you know, or I didn't know until, you know, it's shown on the news.

Hold on, Paul Best, can you describe it for me? Yeah, Nancy. So apparently in September 2020, Larry, as the district attorney laid out yesterday, started displaying increasingly erratic behavior. He created the shrine in September 2020 that had a picture of the couple in the middle surrounded by candles and then what appears to be either blood splatter or red candle wax around the picture. It's very bizarre. And then also, quickly to note, around October, November, December of 2020, Larry apparently started enlisting spellcasters. Okay, wait, wait. What?

Spellcasters? Yeah, the district attorney said yesterday that around December of 2020, they became much more threatening. Larry started trying to cast spells on Maya that she would have broken bones or get in an accident so that she could stay home. And then also, just if we could go back for a second to Larry's kind of idea that there was another man involved, which is, again, like Marica said, is unconcerned. But this is coming from him. Apparently on January 9th. Wait, do you actually think, Paul Best, that I'm going to take the word of a guy that creates a hate shrine

and hires spellcasters to break his wife's bones so she'll stay home from work? Mary Chris, I was mortified when I found out he would call her supervisor at work and insist that a male co-worker be transferred. Can you even imagine your husband calling your boss and insisting some guy you're not dating and he's insisting the guy be transferred? How embarrassing to start with. And now, did you have any idea he was hiring a spellcaster to put spells on his wife? Yeah. I couldn't imagine how desperate he became. You know, it was, in a way, you know, I'm still unable to wrap my mind around it.

How, you know, that behavior really did maya ever let on to you what he was up to his bizarre behavior no no she um she was still trying to protect him oh gosh guys in the last hours there is breaking news in the search for Maya. Take a listen to Hour Cut 22. This is our longtime co-worker and friend at Inside Edition, Jim Moray. It's a jarring moment released from the night a mom disappeared. You can hear six loud bangs that sound like gunshots. The terrifying audio was captured on a neighbor's surveillance camera at 10 p.m.

Missing mom Maya Miliete's neighbor provided the recording to KFMB-TV, San Diego. Maya's sister says she shared an ominous premonition that something might happen to her and who would be responsible. She did say if anything happens to her, it might be her husband. Maya and Larry were high school sweethearts and had been married for 21 years, but she was reportedly ready to end the marriage

and had scheduled an appointment with a divorce attorney the same day she disappeared. She said that she's filing for the divorce and then that she said it's going to be a nasty divorce. To Matthew Mangino, high-profile lawyer joining us, former prosecutor and author. Matthew, we all know the statistics. The most dangerous time for a woman, an abused woman, whether it's emotionally, verbally, or physically, is when she finally decides to leave. When she finally takes that step, calls a divorce attorney, demands a divorce, wants to break up. That is a single most dangerous time for a woman in an abusive relationship. Yes, no.

Well, no question about that, Nancy. And I don't think it's a coincidence that she disappears on the day that she makes this call to a divorce attorney. You know, we see erratic behavior building up to this. And then all of a sudden, you know, she gathers the strength to call an attorney to discuss divorce, and she disappears. So I don't think that that's a coincidence in any way, the timing of that. And it certainly lends itself, you know, to this whole idea that that is when a woman is most vulnerable in terms of domestic violence and or in this case, possibly murder. Take a listen to our cut 24. Roxanne Kennedy, the Chula Vista Police Department SWAT team served an arrest warrant and arrested Larry Maliette for the murder of his wife. Larry was taken into custody at his home and was alone at the time of his arrest.

And I know many of you are all very concerned about May's children. I want you to know that they are safe. I hear the cheering and the happiness at the announcement that Maya's husband, Larry Malete, has been arrested. But that's not the end of the story. Take a listen to our cut 23, NBC7. The district attorney says that she filed the case against Millette yesterday, and then there he was charged with the murder of his wife.

He was also charged with possession of an illegal assault rifle this morning at 1142. He was arrested at his home with the help of U.S. Marshals and the FBI. He's currently being held right now in jail without bond. Now, the DA laid out a litany of facts. However, most of their case is circumstantial. What they don't have are the remains of May, but what they do have, according to the district attorney, is proof that she is no longer alive. For nine months, there is no proof of life. She went on to say later that May Millette had a bank account and had money in it. And over the nine months, she's never touched it, that she's never posted on social media. She's never texted

or called, even though she is a person that would call family members daily. So when she talks about proof of life, what she means to say is there is no proof that she is still alive. Straight out to Maya's sister, Mary Chris. Mary Chris, Julie, you have a lot of circumstantial evidence, but what you don't have is Maya's body. Why? Because Lisa can't find her. You know, he did, I don't know, he did a good job getting rid of her. It's just been horrible, but, you know,

we have to continue looking for her. We're going to be searching for her. This is just the beginning again, and now that we have to continue looking for her. We're going to be searching for her. It's still the beginning again and now that we have more leads. We've got to find that body. We've got to find the body.

Because when this case goes to court, the jury might think she's dead, but the state has to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. And yes, the case can be prosecuted without a body, but I do not want this guy to slip through the fingers of justice. Where is Maya? Paul Best joining me, Fox News and Fox Business. Paul, again, thank you for being with us. You hear Mary Chris's voice. You hear Richard Drew Allais' voice.

They're exhausted. They're at the end of their rope. This has been months and months and months trying to get answers, and they can't find the body. Why is that? What am I hearing about him driving for, what, 11 hours the night or around the time? Tell me about that. Yeah, so on Friday, January 8th, the day after Maya apparently disappeared, he left with his youngest son around 7 a.m.

He told police that he went to Solana Beach, but he was gone for 11 hours and 20 minutes. He skipped work. His boss was calling Maya, calling Larry's dad, trying to figure out where he was, saying this isn't like Larry. He left his phone at home so that there was no way to track him. And then I do want to say, just to quickly give you a sense of how wide the area is that authorities are currently searching for Maya's remains, which, as you just alluded to, is going to be key in this case when it eventually does go to trial.

The district attorney said yesterday that the navigation system on Larry's Lexus that he was driving for 11 hours on that Friday registered a, quote, navigation event two and a half hours before he returned home. And that navigation event was for his home address. So basically what police are saying is that there is a two and a half hour drive radius around the Chula Vista home that he shared with his wife, where her remains could potentially be. That's according to police. And that's a big area. To the east, you can get to Yuma, Arizona in two hours. To the north, you can get to Los Angeles in two and a half hours. And

then, of course, to the northeast, there's countless state and national parks and wilderness. So it's a wide search area right now. Let's bring in a professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, host of a brand new hit series on iHeart Podcast, Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. Joe Scott, you know how I feel when somebody says they only have circumstantial evidence, let me remind everybody under the law, the black and white letter of the law, and this is read verbatim to the jury before the jury begins deliberations. Circumstantial evidence is as probative, as powerful as direct evidence, such as an eyewitness, a fingerprint or DNA. It is considered to be as powerful as direct evidence under the law.

So when somebody says, well, there's only circumstantial evidence, that's a line of BS. But I will admit I'd rather have direct evidence, too. So, Joe Scott, that's where you come in. How are we going to prove this case? Yeah, you know, there's a bit of information that I was curious about. My understanding is that I guess it was probably the 8th the family allegedly went to the home, or maybe it was the 10th, I can't recall. And there they saw bath mats being dried out.

They saw trash cans being dried out. And there was a distinctive smell of bleach. Okay, wait, wait, wait. Let's confirm that. To Richard Drouillet and Mary Chris Drouillet, what can you tell me about that? We were there Sunday. Well, we actually were there Saturday night. You know, the bed was clean.

There was a comforter that was missing. And then Sunday... Wait, what did you say was missing? I didn't quite... What? A comforter, I think. A comforter missing. Okay. And Sunday, we were there too looking.

The house is a mess. It's because his parents just moved out. And then we were there Monday also. The aunt started cleaning the house. That's when Billy Little was there. Attorney Billy Little went in and walked through with Larry around the house. That's when he smelled the bleach. The bleach and saw bath mats drying out?

Yes, over trash cans, Nancy. And I got to tell you. Wait, wait, wait. I want to just go to Bethany and Cheryl on something. Hold a thought, Joe Scott, because it's going to tie into what your analysis is going to be. I think, Dr. Bethany, generally speaking, I don't like a mess in the home. And I don't know if that's some kind of compulsion, but I don't want the children to grow up in a messy environment. So I think from what I've learned about Maya,

she was the same way. And the fact that the house was in a mess to me that means something because if people came into our home and it looked like a cyclone hit it they would know I had not been there because that bothers me gets under my skin now that's a behavioral thing it may mean nothing to somebody else but that tells me Maya was dead that day. Because Nancy, this is yet another break in the pattern, right? The fact that all of her social media stopped. On down the road, we're talking about no money withdrawn from her bank account. Cheryl McCollum was talking about the patterns on her social media, who she contacted. But what happens in the home when you have a four-year-old, a 10-year-old, and an 11-year-old is extremely important. You're preparing their lunches for school.

You're making sure their clothes are laid out. You have towels ready for them. I mean, a good mother does care about her home. And so this was a dramatic break in the pattern. And she is no dummy, guys. She had a really impressive job. Paul Best, explain what she did. Wasn't it for the Navy?

Yeah, she was a contract specialist for the Navy. From everyone that I've talked to, all of her former co-workers, they all said she was a rock star at work, that she did a great job and that she really enjoyed it and loved doing it. She had a lot of responsibility. What I'm trying to tell you is she didn't just, you know, fall off the turnip truck. This woman is smart. She is accomplished. She's beautiful. She's raising these children. And what does it say to you, Cheryl McCollum now see a defense attorney would try to have a field day with this but women on a jury and maybe some men

too would get it if somebody came you you know Cheryl you've been in my home somebody came in and everything was a mess and there are dirty dishes in the sink and laundry's piled up high and the beds are not made. Uh-uh. That's not going to happen. That tells me right then she was dead that day, that minute. No question. Friday by 8 o'clock. And again, what they're going to do for this case is they're going to go back and they're

going to show everything that led up to it. The fact that he tried to hire a hitman for $20,000. The fact that he was sending text messages up to 100 a day. You left out the spellcaster. Oh, I'm getting there because that would be something that I know. And that hate shrine. Yes. I know good and well you would put one of those statements up big as Dallas for the jury to stare at.

But not only did he want her bones broken, wanted them broken so that she couldn't leave him. And then he's borrowing gun cleaning equipment. There's a 40 caliber handgun missing. He's got assault rifles. And all this happens after he talks to the divorce attorney. But I want to say one thing about that bedroom door. I know, certainly nobody on this panel is going to be able to stop you, so go ahead.

Thank you so much. When they say she's in the bedroom, and then the brother-in-law comes back over, and Larry, the husband, opens it with a key, you're telling me that bedroom door locked from the hall? Was he keeping her captive? And I always count on you to keep it real, Cheryl McCollum. Okay, Joe Scott, put it all together. How are we going to prove this case? Hey, I got to tell you, Mary Chris, first off, my apologies in advance. But Nancy, I got to tell you, my friend, when I start hearing words like bath mat soaked in bleach, drying out in all of the cases that I've worked as a death investigator over all my years, I got to tell you, that means that something occurred in the bathroom.

And that means also that potentially there's evidence in that tub of a cleanup. Now, I'm not going to go down the road that you think I'm going to go down relative to the level of gore that is involved in this. But there was an attempt to clean up in that environment. Why else would these bath mats be bleached out? I have to say, Nancy, I think that there is going to be a level of violence involved in this that we can't imagine. Well, a great deal of bloodshed, because if you asphyxiated someone, there would not be that kind of a cleanup. This is a bloody event. And look, Mary Chris and Richard want to know the truth.

A carpenter uses the tools they have at their hand. What did this guy have, Nancy? He had a multitude. He had an armory in the house. As a matter of fact, he was hooked up on an illegal weapons charge for tactical weapon that he had that could use multiple calibers of bullets. And the feds know something here. Let me tell you why. It wasn't just the Chula Vista police that showed up to process this house. You had the FBI ERT team. That is the evidence response unit. They showed up at the house to process this thing. I actually believe that not only are we talking about a homicide here and a missing woman and a

missing mother, we're talking about something that could potentially extend out even further, that the feds would take this much interest in this case. Well, I'm thinking that he may be selling weapons. That's what I'm thinking. Well, he had so many weapons. Yes, he did. And I just cannot understand. I don't know what this guy was involved in. How many weapons do we know that he had?

He had about 20 weapons. And as was just alluded to, he was charged with illegal possession of an assault rifle. And one of those weapons, notably, is still missing, a.40 caliber gun. I want to follow up with Paul Best and Joe Scott. Let me know when you get Cheryl back. Matthew Mangino, Bethany Marshall, how can we track where he hid her remains? Mary Chris, Drew Olay, Richard Drew Olay, what are the cops telling you? How can we figure out where he hid her remains?

This could be critical at trial. Well, Nancy, I think it certainly is going to be critical at trial. Is this Matthew or Richard? It's Matthew. Okay, go ahead. You certainly can. You can certainly go forward with a circumstantial case. There are convictions where there's been no body found. Yeah, I know you can, but I don't want to. How can we track? I think it's crucial that you find the body because although we have circumstantial evidence, we don't have forensic evidence at this point.

We don't have witness evidence at this point. So the body and the cause of death and the manner of death are all going to be extremely important in this prosecution. investigation throughout that entire region with multiple police forces and federal help to try to locate this body. This is not going to be easy. Nancy, if I could jump in. Go, Bethany. If I could jump in about this, I doubt he drove around willy-nilly looking for a dump site for the body just because that's not how these things go.

Think about with killer dad Chris Watts. Think about Tot Mom. They always go somewhere either near the house, near a relative, or a place with which they're very familiar. Think about it. If you have a body or body parts, you're not going to just dump them in a park or in the woods or in a garbage can. You're going to be thinking.

Those 11 hours he drove around thinking. With his then four-year-old in the car, I might add. Nancy, I've got to say, I've got to say the two big pieces of evidence here, in my opinion, relative to this event, they still have that Lexus. No one, as you well know, does a good enough job cleaning a car up. If he had to clean up in the house, that means that there is potentially a mess in that Lexus that he missed. They get their hands on that Lexus, and this is the other thing.

They rip that bathtub out of the wall, take the drain traps out, all of the associated plumbing, and go over that with a fine-tooth comb because this is essential. If you find tissue in there, if you find tissue that is tied back to this poor,

poor woman, I have to say, Nancy, that might be body enough. I hear you. I was going to disagree with you until you said that, if they could get enough evidence out of the drain, which I don't think they can because so many months have passed. But if they could get that from the car or the drain or both of them together to show that she is in fact dead. He should not get a gold star for being able to hide the body. But Mary Chris drew a light and Richard drew a light. If you think back, guys, and you look at like the Scott Peterson case, where did he go?

To his old fishing hole, San Francisco Bay. Taught mom, where did she throw her baby after Kelly was murdered? Right down the street from the home, across from her old school. If you look at, Chris Watts was just brought up. He went to his old place of employment, Anadarko Oil Fields, to hide her body somewhere he thought it would never be found, somewhere he's familiar with. What are cops telling you guys, Mary Chris and Richard? They haven't really told us any specific area, just that time frame, you know, that they're looking at at that two and a half

hours. So what does that mean, Mary Chris, a two and a half hour event? What does that mean? He stopped for two and a half hours somewhere? That's what, it seems like that's what they're telling us. Oh, well, that's where it is. That's where it is. Yeah.

So, so in that, that's the area that we've been having, you know, not just gut feeling, but I mean, it's a feeling that we know she could probably have been. It's the desert. It's a two and a half hours. It's the desert? Did you say it's in the desert? Yeah, we call it the desert. It's, you know, because it's, it's, yeah, it's the desert area. And what he did was very cunning, Richard Joule. He left his cell phone at home

so he cannot be tracked by pings. He is no idiot. He knew what he was doing, but now they've got a two and a half hour event where I'm understanding from Mary Chris, my sister, that he was stopped for two and a half hours during this 11 hour period out in the desert. That's where she is. So how are they determining that, Richard, through the navigation system in the Lexus? Yeah, that's correct. I guess they had a, I guess he must have stopped somewhere and looked at maybe different routes to get back home. And where he got pinpointed was about two and a half hours away from his house. So that's where we're going to be starting our searches. I mean, we've always thought it could have been the desert.

But during the summer, I mean, the desert's 120, 125 degrees, you know, by 12 o'clock. So it's really dangerous to be out there in that heat. Nancy, there's also a four-year-old in the car. I know. I've been wondering if the four-year-old could point out where they went. This is what we know. In the last hours, a stunning development in the case. We all thought nothing would ever happen. But now the husband of my military has been arrested.

But what we need now is her body. If you have any information, 888-580-8477. Repeat, 888-580-8477. I heard those cheers go up when the arrest was announced, and I wanted to cheer, but I know the hard work is still before us. It's a long road to hoe before we get justice. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.