Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Huge Mollie Tibbetts reward offered to 'shake the tree' in search for missing Iowa college student

Episode Date: August 6, 2018

Mollie Tibbett's mom has an offer for whoever might have taken her daughter. Return her 20-year-old daughter and you can collect the $260,000 reward. While police don't know if the Iowa college student was kidnapped, a CrimeStoppers spokesman says they are trying to "shake the tree" with the huge reward, which can be paid anonymously. Nancy Grace digs into the latest in the search for Mollie with experts including Susan Constantine, a body language expert who specializing in detecting lies. Constantine analyzes an unusual interview with a hog farmer who has been questioned by investigators. Also on the panel are forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan, lawyer Ashley Willcott, and CrimeOnline.com reporter Leigh Egan. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph. A gorgeous young 20-year-old Iowa college student, Molly Tibbetts disappears her family distraught and begging for your help in the last hours new evidence emerges that seemingly cracks wide open the working theory This is Molly Tibbetts. We are taking your calls at 909-492-CRIME. 909-492-7463. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. This is what we know. Molly Tibbetts, at first, we were told, was out for a jog and she never returned. At the get-go, that scenario didn't seem to fall into place because later we hear that she was up late working on homework for her computer. We also learned that the red t-shirt she was given by her daycare where she's a counselor, to wear the next day on a field trip, was missing. Suggesting she had been home the previous night, had gotten ready for work the next day, putting on her counselor's shirt,

and then was taken because the shirt is missing. So many details emerging right now. First and foremost, Lee Egan joining me, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. Lee, a pig farmer, a pig farmer has been questioned by the FBI not once but twice. You know, it always concerns me when they circle back to you, all right? They circle back, and Lee, tell me if this is true. I have heard reports the pig farmer who lives down the road from where Molly was last seen is refusing a polygraph. Is that true, Lee? Yes, that is true, Nancy. They asked him last Thursday to take a test, and he openly admitted that he refused, that he doesn't want to take it.

Okay, let's hear it from the horse's mouth. Take a listen to the so-called hog farmer, Wayne Chaney, who lives down the street from where Molly was last seen. Here he is speaking to WHO 13 TV. Listen. Wayne, what has it been like these last few weeks? Take me through what the community has been going through, what you've been seeing, the activity. I haven't really seen much, so I really don't know what's going on. I have no idea what they're doing. It's just a bad deal. What's been, I guess, I have no idea what they're doing. Yeah. It's just a bad deal. What's been, I guess, the hardest part?

That I can't find her. Yeah. How does that, that's been impacting you, even though you don't even know, you know, the person, right? No, but I don't know her. Yeah. What's that like, not knowing someone and being frustrated about their situation?

Well, I don't know. It's just a bad deal. You had said, you know, I mean, we've heard different people, I mean, all people in Brooklyn, people out here at hog farms that own, you know, different properties, police come in and going through things. What was the situation like for you here and how they kind of approached everything? Oh, I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. We're wasting our time.

I'm done. You said the FBI took you down to the fire station, right? No, it wasn't the FBI. I don't know who them two guys were, but they took me to the fire station, right? No, it wasn't the FBI. I don't know who them two guys were, but they took me to the fire station Tuesday. Okay. And they asked questions? They questioned me for a couple hours. They questioned me.

Just about, like, maybe what you saw out here or actually, like, where you've been? I mean, weird. Yeah. What was that? What kind of questions? I don't even remember what they asked me. It was a waste of my time. I know that. Yeah. Did you feel like, you know, it can't be an easy situation, right? The police, you know, they say they're doing their job and questioning, but

does it unfortunately make, I mean, make you feel like they're second-guessing you as a resident here? Yeah, yeah. And were there questions that made you feel like, hey, wait a second, am I the one being questioned? Yep. And why is that? I don't know. It was just a waste of time, I thought, but oh well. And that was on Tuesday? It took you into Brooklyn, I guess? Yep.

And so, how do you feel like they should have been spending their time? I don't know. I really don't know. So, have you seen activity at the hog farms across the road? No. No. activity at the the hog farms across the road no no and what about uh you know when i mean you made a comment what did you told the fbi to to get away or the the people that came and took you down to the station just to go away or something and they said they had some kind of snide comment.

I don't know. I'm done. I'm done. Alright. Has the community been really upset about all this? That was local hog farmer Wayne Chaney. Now he was speaking to WHO 13 TV reporter Justin Sorense right then, and I'm going to go switching from Lee Egan with CrimeOnline.com. Joining me also, Ashley Wilcott, judge and founder of ChildCrimeWatch.com, Joseph Scott Morgan, forensics expert and author. Quickly to Susan Constantine, body language and speech expert specializing in

detecting lies. You know what? A girl is missing, possibly dead, and to keep saying over and over, it's a waste of time. It's a waste of time with that flat affect. I mean, you're the expert, Susan Constantine, but frankly, no stone should be left unturned. To just keep saying it's a waste of time, waste of time. I don't know. Maybe he's just not very articulate, but I don't think that's a good message to send. No, and you're right, Nancy, too. And listen to him when he's talking. He's talking about how it's affecting himself.

He's not at all concerned about what happened to the victim. And the other thing is that we notice, in addition to the low affect, is that he has this increased anxiety, which is causing all these physiological responses of itching the ears, to adjusting the glasses, to stroking his hair, to crossing his arms, uncrossing it. And so what happens is that when you're under anxiety, it increases blood flow and causes irritation to those capillaries. Those are all deceptive indicators. So it really does concern me. We are talking about a local hog farmer that lives down the street from where Molly was last seen. This is breaking news now. We are learning that Molly's mother is saying, contrary to what we've been told by authorities, both of those red shirts have been found.

To Ashley Wilcott, juvenile judge, lawyer, founder of childcrimewatch.com. That is very significant because that blows out, blows one theory straight out of the water. It is very significant because now it means there's not a missing red shirt in the timeline, right? It's a, it's exactly affecting the timeline of when she might've disappeared or did disappear, I should say. The thing I want to note, though, is the mother then said, hey, there might have been a third shirt. This young lady had no routine other than going to work. She had two homes, her boyfriend's home, her mother's home, where she basically kept things. Sometimes she slept at one house, sometimes the other. So it's very difficult in this case to establish a timeline.

Two red shirts affects that timeline. Now there's talk of there being a third red shirt. The reason we're talking about this is because we're trying desperately to establish a timeline in missing Molly Tibbetts. With me, professor of forensics, author of Blood Beneath My Feet, Joseph Scott Morgan, forensics, author of Blood Beneath My Feet, Joseph Scott Morgan, forensics expert. Why is the shirt so important, Joe Scott? Well, if the shirt is specifically owned by her and it is found in a location she is not known to frequent, then that shirt is significant, Nancy, as you well know. The individual that is involved

in this from an investigative standpoint can take that timeline and try to marry it up. Let's keep in mind that the place where Molly actually was last seen is in Brooklyn, Iowa, and it's some distance from these hog farms in this area so you have to wonder why in the world would she be there she had been on foot this sort of thing so it's going to be a tie back relative to matching this thing up with timeline and also what she had in her possession at the last time she was seen alive you know issue, and this is based on having interviewed literally, literally thousands of witnesses and defendants. I don't know if you've ever noticed this, Ashley Wilcott and Susan Constantine in your work, but Susan, so often I would be

interviewing somebody or questioning them on the stand. Let's just pretend it's a shooting. And they would tell me, okay, we went by a bar, and then we went in the car, and then we did this, and then we did that. And then he jumped out of the car, and I saw him pull the gun, and then it stops. And I'm like, well, what happened then? He goes, I don't know, Ms. Grace. I looked away. My point is, at that critical moment, they go blank, which is totally a big lie.

Now, what I'm saying is, here, maybe he just did not want to divulge it, this Chaney. Chaney, the pig farmer with two prior stalking convictions from 2009 and 2014, says he really couldn't remember what the FBI asked him. You know what? I've been put on the stand and cross-examined one time, one time, and it was in a homicide case, and I had handed over my entire file to the defense and then they filed a motion to the judge that I hadn't handed everything over. I'm like, oh yes, I did. Well, it turned out they were right. Homicide had a second file and had like 30 pages in it that they never gave me. And so therefore it was my duty that they, there was nothing significant in

it. But the fact was there were 30 pages I didn't know about. And the defense apparently got it before I did and put me on cross-exam on the stand under oath suggesting I was trying to hide it. Well, I can remember that moment to this day, and that was over 10 years ago when you are being questioned in a serious matter. I remember I felt hot all over. I felt I could feel my face being hot as I listened to the questions, worried had I done anything wrong to jeopardize the case for Pete's sake? Well, it all turned out fine because the truth came out as soon as they put the homicide detective on the stand. Well, how can he not remember what the FBI, I think I would remember, Susan, what the FBI just asked me that held me for two hours and wanted me to take a polygraph test. And you're right, Nancy, and they conveniently don't remember what they remember, but they don't want to talk about

it. And that's why he says, you know, he doesn't want to talk about it. It's enough. And what you know, we talked about this before. That's not what he said, Susan. He didn't say I don't want to talk about he said, I don't remember. Yes. How can you not remember being grilled by the fence? I understand that. But even in the interview, the three minute interview, I'm kind of going backwards. I'm sorry. In addition to that is that he just kind of walks away when the stress is too high. He walks away. And we know that when when liars are covering information, they don't finish the story either. There's way too much buildup, there's not very much information, and they very quick close up. So we look at that 25%, 50%, 25%. 25 meaning the lead up to the story, 50% of the story, and the 25 being at the end. And anything outside of that, they're not revealing all the information conveniently. And Nancy, this is Ashley. Jump in.

The other thing he kept saying is, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. When I'm on the bench and I've got juveniles in front of me, what do you think they say repeatedly if we ask questions of them trying to find out what happened or about the alleged offense? I don't know. I don't know.

Of course they know. They just don't want to say. You know, we are talking about a local hog farmer that lives not too, too far away from where Molly Tibbetts goes missing. Right now we learn, for one thing, Molly's mom says she believes Molly went missing from the jog, which is contrary to everything else we're learning about the timeline. What does she know that we don't know? Also, we are learning about a third red shirt. We're learning that two of the red shirts have been found. Very significant in this case because if she had gotten up that morning, showered, gotten

ready for work, put on her shirt, left with her cell phone, remember her cell phone's missing, that's where you start the timeline and that's how you can determine who may have gotten Molly. But what we are learning is from people at her job. She was expected to be there at work. We're learning this from her boss at Grinnell Regional Medical Center, Chad Nath, who tells us Molly was expected to arrive around 8 a.m. that morning. She never showed up. She was part of a group of 10 staff members that were taking about 75 children to a county fair. Hence, the red shirt so the children would be able to spot her. There's a big difference, and her getting snatched off the street while she's jogging the evening before and her stepping out of her home the next morning dressed to go to work, it greatly reduces the possibilities of who took her and how they took her. major development today. The reward for information regarding Molly has climbed up to $220,000.

Listen to Molly's mother. The family and friends of my, our daughter and our sister, Molly Tibbetts, would like to announce that we have set up a Bring Molly Tibbetts Home Safe reward fund at First State Bank here in Brooklyn, Iowa. We believe that Molly is still alive and if someone has abducted her, we are pleading with you to please release her. It is our greatest hope that if someone has her, that they would just release her and claim that money that we have raised for her freedom. You know what? It is so hard to work cold cases. I know. I have worked them myself.

Especially when you know your co-workers and colleagues have already worked the case. But there's a former prosecutor named Kelly Siegler who is a true champion for justice, and she is on a mission across America. What I love about Oxygen's Cold Justice program is that Kelly and her team of detectives take on real unsolved murder cases and get real answers for victims and their families. You will love how immersive this show is. You feel like you're right there with the team riding shotgun. They are passionate crusaders for justice and I like that. That's what makes each case so personal to this team. Watch the new season of Cold Justice Saturday, 6 p.m. Eastern, 5 Central on Oxygen.

Everyone knows everyone. Everyone talks to everyone. And you can't do anything there without someone seeing it. So we need to get that person or persons to come forward with that information. We're getting this message out. The bottom line is somebody knows something. That is Molly's father, Rob Tibbetts, begging people to come forward in the search for his daughter. The reward for information regarding Molly Tibbetts is now up to $220,000. That tip line, 1-800-452-1111.

1-800-452-1111. 1-800-452-1111. Here's the deal. Lee Egan, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. I mean, we're saying Brooklyn, Brooklyn. It's Brooklyn, Iowa. How many people live there? I mean, who can it be? How many people live in that area, Lee? There's only about 1,200

residents total in that area, but the extended area will branch out to many more people. Well, I mean, Lee Egan, you could say that about the Sahara Desert. If you keep going far enough, you'll run into some people. Hey, if you keep walking, you'll run into New York City, Lee. But right there, no offense, Lee, but right there is 1,200 people. I mean, Joseph Scott Morgan, help me out. Hold on, though. Let me correct myself. Hold on. The voices in my head are having an argument.

What about, remember Shasta and Dylan Groney in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho? Remember that? They were living out in the middle of nowhere, and some freak comes along the interstate and decides to do a home invasion and take the children. So here we go. Lee's right. There's 1,200 people there, but who knows who is driving by?

Is there an interstate nearby? Does someone, let's say, come through there for business? You know, it could be a sales rep. My brother was a sales rep for Johnson & Johnson for 30 years. He drove the same route. It could be a trucker. It could be anybody, a delivery person. It could be someone from out of town that was coming through for some other reason.

How do I know? But, I mean, the fact there's only 1,200 people there, Joseph Scott Morgan, that's got to narrow the field for Pete's sake. Yeah, of course it does. They're not too far away from Interstate 80 that's in the east-west thoroughfare, Nancy. But this is just it. You're going to tell me that just some random stranger wanders into a town in rural America, 1,200 people,

and out of all the people there, he picks this girl to have her just vanish into thin air. I'm not buying it. You know, we walk around in fear of strangers all the time. But, you know, you're more at risk with people that are in your close proximity than you are with people that are just randomly driving down the road. Now, as an investigator, I want to take a real hard look at people that are in her orbit, that are in the area in which she resides, that people would have been familiar with her, that would have known a routine perhaps,

or maybe just caught her out of the corner of their eye and developed some kind of desire for her. That's the kind of people I want to zero in on. And I would press very, very hard when it comes to this gentleman that we heard earlier. Well, I'm telling you, I agree with you. I agree with you 200%. Susan Constantine, speech expert specializing in detecting lies.

This hog farmer does live near her. I mean, it's not like in a densely populated suburb, but he does live near her and would be familiar as to where she lives. Again, he is not named a person of interest. He is not named a suspect. But I do know the feds are circling back to talk to him a second time. I do know they asked him to take a polygraph and he refused it. Now, does that mean he's guilty? Absolutely not. But I understand why the cops are looking at him. What more can you tell me about his statement? Well, when listening to a statement, he's just not offering any valuable information.

And usually when somebody is missing, people that are in the community want to help out. So it's a natural instinct to say, I want to tell you what I know so that they can help police officers or FBI find out what happened. But the fact that his voice is very flat, which could be his natural affect, we don't know because I don't have anything else to compare it to. But the fact that he's looking at himself like it's me, I'm the one that's being bothered, rather than understanding what the parents are going through, there's no emotion or empathy. So it's a lack of that empathy and compassion that concerns me. Explain to me, Lee Egan, why the mother is saying that she's convinced Molly was taken while she was jogging the night before. Is it because

the things she would typically take with her to jog are gone? The cell phone, the Fitbit, her jogging clothes are missing. Is that what it is, Lee? That's what it is. The things that she always takes with her. She would have had, if somebody came into the home, the mother thinks there's no way that they would take all of her, like they wouldn't grab her phone. They wouldn't grab her arm, the little arm thing she keeps her phone in on when she jogs. They would leave that there if they abducted her from the home. So the mom's thinking she had to be out running and somebody sn of her was sent by her to her boyfriend that evening. He opened it at 10 p.m. She obviously was not out running after 10 p.m. And not only that, her computer reportedly revealed she had been up late that night working on her computer doing homework, which is inconsistent with her being snatched while she was jogging. in that scenario that someone would have physically perhaps come into the home and,

you know, taking her from that location, or maybe she walked out of the house, maybe she heard something outside the house was drawn out and someone abducted her while she was in the front yard. Now I'm just saying this relative to the scenario that we're discussing right now, but is there any evidence at the home? I want to know what the police have done there at that particular scene as far as processing that. Was there evidence of forced entry? Was there evidence of struggle? All those things that we'd look for in crime scene investigation,

is there anything that is left behind there that would give us an indication she was taken against her will? You know, Lee Egan, I've seen nothing about a forced entry. I've seen nothing about a struggle or a ransacking. And what I'm hearing now that the Fitbit was gone, the arm holder that she used to put her cell phone into it when she ran, her jogging clothes, probably her running shoes are all missing. That goes back to the jogging theory, which in my mind makes it even harder to pinpoint a perp.

What can you tell me about whether she was there at the boyfriend's house? He was out of town in Dubuque. The brother he lived with was out of town also. They apparently have been cleared. She was their dog sitting. Is it true, Lee, that at night or when she was gone, the dogs would be kept in the basement and the cops found the dogs in the basement with the basement door locked? That is correct. And another thing is that the dogs, if she was at home or if she went to sleep, the dogs would not be put in the basement if she was sleeping. They would sleep in the bed with her. The only time she put the dogs in the basement is if she was out of the house.

And when police found the dogs, they were fine, no damage, but they were in the basement. Okay, Ashley Wilcott, you and I have seen so many scenarios unfold. You're a lawyer, a judge, founder of ChildCrimeWatch.com. What are your observations so far? Listen, you know, I rarely disagree with everyone on the show, and especially you, Nancy. But in this case, I think we're not talking about two things. Number one, she might have left voluntarily. And God, I hope that's the case and she's out there fine we don't know that she did not choose to walk away and go somewhere

number one and that could be why she locked why are you saying that number two are you even saying that because we don't know i know and i'm hopeful it's the case and not the other, but all I'm saying is law enforcement's got to look at everything, everything. I mean, that goes without saying what we're talking about is the relevant evidence, the code 24, the relevant evidence. Come on, Ashley, do you really believe she just went on a walkabout? You really think that? She didn't disappear into thin air, and they're doing all the right things in the investigation, but what the hey, somebody knows something, and I'm just saying, is that an option? Is it a possibility, even if it's slight? Absolutely. The other possibility we've touched on, even if it's slight, is it might have been

a complete stranger. We don't know that it wasn't, that it wasn't a random horrific abduction. Take a listen now to more of what we have learned. This is not like her. Dalton Jack is living in a nightmare. I figured, you know, I'd speak to her in an hour or so. And right now, it's one he can't wake up from. I came home as soon as her mom said that she called the hospital and she wasn't there. The last time the 20-year-old saw Molly was on Wednesday at 10 p.m. when he opened as soon as her mom said that she called the hospital and she wasn't there. The last time the 20 year old saw Molly was on Wednesday at 10

p.m. when he opened a snapchat from her. It was just a selfie with the caption and I don't remember what the caption said but it looked like she was inside. He never thought he wouldn't hear from her again. Early Thursday morning he didn't notice the message hadn't been read until her friend called late that afternoon. One of her co-workers called me said Molly had not called into work that day and she hadn't showed up and then I looked at the messages and she hadn't opened or read any of them so I started getting in contact with her friends and her family saying hey have you seen her have you heard from her and everybody came up with the same thing no I haven't seen her since yesterday. Sweet.

I've never seen her be angry or mean to anybody in the almost three years that we've been dating. To not know where she is is unsettling, and he's gone numb. If this is her running off, this is just nobody would have seen coming. Nobody in the world, not her family, not me. Nobody would have ever guessed that she would just take off and not tell anybody. While law enforcement continued to search for her, there's just one thing he wants Molly to know. I miss you so much and I love you. His boyfriend Dalton Jack, she was at his home that he shared with his brother, babysitting his dogs. She was last seen wearing her running gear, dark-colored running shorts, a pink sports top, running shoes.

The boyfriend, working a construction job 121 miles away, he received a Snapchat from Molly that night, taken indoors, suggesting she had returned home after the jog. He also shares, as I told you, the home with his brother and the brother's fiancée. They were both away out of town at the time. They were set to marry in Dominican Republic at a destination wedding. That has been canceled while the search for Molly goes on now the boyfriend Dalton Jack tells us that Molly had probably gone to bed without locking the doors given that it is a very peaceful rural area of about 12 to 1400 people that it was common practice to go to bed without

locking doors. We're now learning through Lee Egan, she typically slept with the dogs while the boyfriend's gone. What else do we know? We know the dogs locked up, not just in the basement, but locked up, suggesting she was still on the run or had left, had left the home on her own. Take a listen to this. You know, if they're listening, then I would just like them to know that, imagine this was you. Everybody has a Molly in their life, a person that has affected her, them in a way that she affected everybody standing up here right now. And imagine if this was you, somebody had taken your Molly. Wouldn't you want to help? Wouldn't you want her back? How would you feel? Just do the right thing and, you know, let her go pretty much. It's exhausting because I don't know where she is. I don't know if she's safe. We're just hoping for her safe return.

The reward for Molly's safe return now climbing to $220,000. The tip line, 800-452-1111. Tip line, 800-452-1111. And speaking of that reward, listen. What we're trying to do is shake the tree. We want somebody to come forward, even if it's not real, at least to start a conversation with somebody. Somebody might know that she's being held by somebody but would never say anything

because if they said something, they may think that reciprocity or their life might be in danger. We can guarantee that whoever gives this information up, their identity will be protected. When they put in the tip, they get a random number that matches that tip. So if you're 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, they'd have to contact us back and say, Hey, I saw in the media, well, in this case, if they got them, if they got Molly, they're going to call in and say, hey, I see there's a reward. I want to let her go. And then that negotiation will be done with law enforcement

and a whole new dynamic will come into play. And we hope that dynamic comes into play. That's why we're doing what we're doing. You are listening. The tip being described, as you just heard, that was Crimestoppers of Central Iowa spokesperson Greg Wiley speaking at a news conference in the last hours. Let's take a look at what we know. The boyfriend, Dalton Jack, says he spoke with Tibbetts via text messages and social media just before she went out on an evening jog.

That's what he's saying. He says she runs every night and she likes to go whenever the sun's not down. Repeat, not down. So it would have still been daylight hours that she knows the area very well. He believes, the boyfriend Dalton Jack says, she would have had both her Fitbit activity tracker and her cell phone when she went out for a jog. She was last seen, according to eyewitnesses, around 7.30 p.m. local time that night, still daylight, running the streets of Iowa, wearing dark-colored running shorts, running shoes, and a pink sports top. Now, this is according to the Iowa Department of Public Safety. Now, immediately, the very next day, when she doesn't show up for work at 8 a.m. Her family reports her missing. Completely out of character for Molly not to show

up for work. The search going on right now, police in Kearney, Missouri respond then to an unconfirmed sighting of Tibbetts at a truck stop. We have learned that that sighting was not Molly Tibbetts. Repeat, not Molly Tibbetts. Now, interesting. Ashley, you had a question. Ashley Wilcott with me, a lawyer, judge, founder of childcrimewatch.com. A question regarding the wallet and the debit card, Ash. That's right, Nancy. So I know that the reports are that they located or found the debit card, Ash? That's right, Nancy. So I know that the reports are that they located or found the debit card, a passport that she'd recently gotten, and the wallet. What I didn't see is any consistent information about where those were found, because that's really significant, again, and when the time frame she disappeared.

What about it, Lee Egan? So police found her laptop and her wallet. Inside her wallet was her driver's license, debit card, and a newly acquired passport. They were all left in her boyfriend's house. But interesting, now I'm understanding what the mom is saying. That she still had with her everything she would have taken to run, that the dogs were still locked in the basement where she would put them when she goes jogging. If she were home, they would be up with her. So I hear what the mom is saying. In the last hours, with the help of hundreds of volunteers scouring the area and the surrounding area, we learned that police have gone to a pig farm.

They've been there several times. It's about 10 miles south of Brooklyn, Iowa. We also learned that while it's not uncommon for feds to go back to a site, but the feds are going back for a second interview with a pig farmer that lives nearby. He has refused a polygraph test. Susan Constantine with me, renowned body language and speech expert specializing in detecting lies. You know, a lot of people refuse a polygraph, right? Okay. So what does that mean to you, Susan Constantine?

Well, it tells me that they have the fear of taking a polygraph. There's something that is in their subconscious that they can't reveal. It might be damaging. So, you know, there really isn't any reason why a person wouldn't want to take a polygraph if they were innocent. So that would raise a red flag for me. And, of course, Ashley, you can't bring that into evidence at trial that someone refused a polygraph. That's equated to commenting on their right to remain silent, and that's disallowed at trial.

That's absolutely correct. It's not allowed at trial, and it just gives us more information during the investigation to figure out what, in fact, this man is telling the truth about and what he's not. And I agree completely. If he were completely innocent, if he knew nothing, if he had no reason to be concerned, he, like anybody else, would be the first one in there to say, I will take a polygraph. But yet he is not. Nancy. Jump in. a polygraph but yet he is not nancy jump in yeah listen i have to say the currency if you you don't mind me equating to that that investigators deal in is time time is the most valuable thing that investigators possess i believe that the police uh and uh the fbi no more at this point than any of us possibly know.

They are not going to waste their precious currency time in going back out there. There's more to this. I think that they're concentrating in this particular area. I don't know if this individual has anything to do with it, but they're focused in this area. Something has drawn them there there and we have to keep that in mind that's why it's going to be very critical over the next few days that we all watch this investigation that zeroed in on this particular area very very carefully because i don't know what's happened uh you know i would say something like electronic evidence but they have

those those items in their possession. Wait a minute, wait a minute. Don't just say, Joe Scott Morgan, you know what? We can help, and if you're just smarter than all the rest of us, when you just throw out terms like electronic evidence, what do you mean by that? Well, I'm talking about being able to ping a cell phone, get this Fitbit where you can read this thing.

Those things leave a trail, don't they, Nancy? It's just one of those things that we look at as far as establishing a timeline, pinpointing location, that sort of thing. So all of that is very, very critical. Something else, I believe, has drawn them out there to this location in this rural area that's south of Brooklyn where she was last known alive and this is about a 15 mile jaunt to get down to the area from Brooklyn where they are where they're focusing right now at this point so all of this is very very critical in my opinion

so we're talking about a Fitbit it's kind of like a smart watch. What all, Jessica Morgan, can a Fitbit reveal? Yeah, this is, we're going to talk about, well, if you're, it's got a pedometer on it so that it can, that allows us to tell how many steps that an individual has taken. It also gives us biofeedback relative to heart rate and those sorts of things so there's any number of things bits of information that can be harvested i'm sure that there are other items on a fitbit that can be harvested that we're not aware of but hold on i know you're going to remember this everybody that i'm speaking to right now the attack on a beautiful young woman, a murdered woman, her Fitbit was used to charge her husband in that deadly attack. He told police a masked intruder barged in their Connecticut home that he tied up and tortured the husband.

And when the wife came home, he just killed her. I'm talking about Richard DeBatte. That's what he told police. This is one thing he forgot to do when he staged the scene, according to police, is to get rid of his wife's Fitbit. The husband told detectives he had put his two children on the bus that morning, waved bye-bye to his wife, Connie DeBatte, and he went to work. Then he said his wife went to a fitness class at the Y. In his version, in his version, he went back home when he said he forgot his laptop around 9 a.m., heard a noise, went upstairs, and all hell broke loose. That's where he blames an unusual mysterious man with a stocky bill of course wearing camouflage and a ski mask that's convenient hey it must have been

those ninjas that jody arias said broke into her home and killed travis alexander okay that they Okay, they quote, tussled, and somehow, somehow this guy got the best of him and tied him up. Then comes the Fitbit. That was his mistake. He forgot to take the Fitbit off his wife's body, according to police. Police scouring the area, couldn't find a suspect. They brought in the canines, everything they they could think of and then they figured out what happened connie's fitbit registered movement at 9 23 the very same time the garage door opened in the kitchen that she was active up to 9 40 to 946 posting videos.

Then the Fitbit shows her in the home walking around between 918 and 1005 a.m. when he comes home to get his laptop and the camouflaged masked aggressor comes into the home. So they analyze all of that, and then they dig up a nearly half a million dollar insurance policy, and that was all she wrote. That's what they can do with your Fitbit. So, Joe Scott, can't they figure out where she last was? I mean, doesn't the Fitbit

transmit the information? They don't have to have the actual Fitbit, do they? I would think that it would, particularly if it's Wi-Fi enabled. It would go back to a central server cloud. And I think that that's going to be key. And so, again, that might be a piece of information that the police have at this moment, Tom, that we're not fully aware of right now. And, again, this is going to help them establish a timeline. Again, time is what we deal in here. And being able to place people at specific locations and their activities at those particular times.

It's a far cry from what we used to deal with. Now we can kind of tighten that window down a little bit, and hopefully this is going to help. Yeah, investigators now pinning a lot of hope on data from Molly's Fitbit, hoping it will give clues to her whereabouts. We know she was wearing the fit bit when she went jogging. That data transmitted. We know the day she disappeared, her brother, her own brother, dropped her off at her boyfriend's home so she could dog sit. Now that is according to information we have received along with what she was wearing that evening. Now, days after her disappearance, the search has intensified.

Executed search warrants for the Fitbit information to her Snapchat, Instagram, Facebook accounts have occurred. They are sifting through all of that evidence now. The FBI has taken over the case. They have now interviewed a local pig farmer two times, asked him to submit to a polygraph. He denied. His farm is about 10 miles southeast of the home where Tibbetts was last seen. The family begging for help. Take a listen to this. We are told very little by the authorities for very good reason. They are

incredible partners. They've put together an incredible investigation. It's large, it's sophisticated, it's aggressive, and they have been nothing but sensitive to our family. And to suggest otherwise is wrong. But they are not sharing information with us because they don't need to share information with someone who might be implicated in this. That is Molly's father as he is begging for help. The search for Molly goes on. Listen. Every day I feel Molly's presence with me.

You know, sometimes I just feel her sitting on my shoulder. And Molly was an incredibly strong young woman. And I don't know that I have the strength in me, but Molly's lending me her strength every day, every night. And yes, I have my moments of complete meltdowns, but it is through this strength that is somehow, and I don't know how how being bestowed upon me that I am able to get through every morning, every noon, every night. That is Molly's mother speaking. Susan, did you hear her refer to Molly in the past tense? Yeah, because she's actually viewing her as already gone. And when people speak in past tense, they don't have hope that they're able to find her.

So, you know, unfortunately, that's kind of what she's actually internally processing. And that's what she thinks. And that's the reason why she used past tense. With me, Susan Constantine, Joe Scott Morgan, Ashley Wilcott, and Lee Egan. Again, please help us. The tip line, 800-452-1111.

Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.