Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Hungry cops turned away by Burger King? Inside Heather Locklear's meltdown

Episode Date: June 28, 2018

The drive-thru crew at Louisiana Burger King allegedly refused to take a fast food order from two police officers. Nancy Grace digs into the controversy with Assumption Parish Sheriff’s spokesman Lonny Cavalier.  They are joined by private investigator & former Nashville police officer Vincent Hill and lawyer & psychologist Dr. Brian Russell -- host of Investigation Discovery's "Fatal Vows" series. Grace also looks at "Melrose Place" actress Heather Locklear's alcohol-fueled meltdown with alcohol rehab advocate Michael Lohan & RadarOnline.com reporter Alexis Tereszcuk. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Oh, yeah. You want a cop to take a bullet, right? on Sirius XM Triumph, channel 132. Oh yeah, you want a cop to take a bullet, right? You want a cop to come running pronto when your bank is robbed or when somebody breaks into your house or when somebody rams you from behind, when your child disappears inside the Toys R Us or Chuck E. Cheese, they better be there pronto and skedaddle,

right? That's why we pay our taxes. Oh, yeah. But when they drive through the Burger King, they can't get a chicken sandwich. Are you kidding me? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Burger King refuses to serve police, the very same police that they want to show up when customers misbehave, when somebody tries to rob them, when somebody breaks in overnight. But talk about bite the hand that feeds you. An owner of a Louisiana Burger King issues an apology after store employees reportedly refuse service to police. Now listen to me. I get it. I know that there are police officers that have done horrible things. Yes, they did, and they need to go to jail

for it. But one bad apple does not spoil the whole bunch, and I want to go on the record as saying that police officers, lawyers, judges are some of the most honorable people I have ever known, and I stand shoulder to shoulder with them. And believe you me, when one misbehaves or commits a crime, I want them to go to jail just like every other felon. But really imagine you got your kids in the back seat, you're hungry,

and you drive through and order. Then there's a long pause. Nobody ever waits on you. Nothing happens. You drive to the drive up window and they tell you they're out of chicken. Then you go, oh, okay, how about a burger? Oh, we're out of burgers too. you go, oh, okay. How about a burger? Oh, we're out of burgers too. And I'll start laughing. You know what? To hay with you. Joining me right now, John Limley, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter, Dr. Brian Russell,

lawyer and psychologist, host of Investigation Discovery's hit series, Fatal Vows. Vincent Hill, former Nashville PD, now private investigator, and special guest joining me right now, the public information director for Assumption Parish Sheriff's Office out of Louisiana. Hello, my Cajun friend, Lonnie Cavalier. Lonnie? Hey, Nancy. Good morning. Thanks for having me. I'm sick.

My children were asking me the other day, how do you speak Cajun? I really didn't know what to say. I did tell them that out of all the many times I've been to Louisiana with my best friend who happens to be a defense lawyer, don't hold it against me. I never knew what anybody was saying. I just smiled and said, please and thank you and just went about my business. Now, Commander, tell me what happened at a Louisiana Burger King franchise. Well, on the evening of May the 17th, the sheriff of Sumter Parish contacted me and advised me that two of our SWAT people who had completed training in Zachary, Louisiana, at the state police compound, went over to St. Francisville to purchase food from the local Burger King. And they drove up to the drive-in.

As they drove up, they could see they had people inside. Commander, what time of the day or night was it? This was about 4.30 in the evening. Okay, go ahead. And he attempted to order, the driver attempted to order a chicken sandwich and was quickly told they had no chicken. He said, well, I'd like to order a Whopper. And they said, well, we have no burgers here.

And then he said. At the Burger King. At the Burger King. At the Burger King. Now, hold on. Let me understand something. Commander Lonnie Cavalier with us from the Assumption Parish Sheriff's Office. Commander, it's my understanding they pull up to the drive-in, you know, where you speak into the intercom,

and for a long time nobody said anything. So they just sat there for a while. That's correct. Then they go up. Now at 4.30, how long had they already been at work? They had to be in SWAT training until 6 on the morning of the 17th. They had already been there since 6 a.m.? Yes, they had been in SWAT training since 6 a.m. that day.

Jackie, Alan, remind me not to complain about long hours working. So they've been there since 6, which means they probably leave the house at 5, which means they probably get up at 4 to 4.30. Be there on time at 6 because you are not late to roll call, period. Okay, that's some serious peer pressure when you answer in and all your colleagues and your boss is there. Last thing you want to do is slink in with your tail between your legs, N-O. That's like coming late to court.

So they've been up since 4.30. We're now at 4.30 in the afternoon and all these cops want is a chicken sandwich. Okay. They're not going in and sitting down at a donut shop or a diner like people like to portray police. Correct. The most they're going to do is drive through a Burger King. All right, let me set the stage. They pull up. Nobody comes to the intercom. All right, tell me again what happens, Commander. Well, eventually they answer them that, no, they had no chicken sandwiches,

and then they had no hamburgers. So the driver asked, well, do you all serve police officers? And a short time later, several people laughing came on to the keyed intercom and all they could hear was laughing so he drove around the the first window and get got out of his his uh K-9 unit and looked into the the Burger King and he saw several people there a couple of them were hiding behind the counter they were were snickering and laughing and basically figured he wasn't going to get served. Wait, did you just say snickering? Yeah, snickering.

Because is that a Cajun word? Is that snickering? A cross between snickering and giggling. Okay, I'm totally stealing that. And I'm going to accuse my children of snickering. Okay. All right. So they look in. Okay, I'm totally stealing that, and I'm going to accuse my children of snickering. Okay? All right. So they look in, and guys, I know that this is not a crisis.

I know it's not a felony, but I'm so mad about it, I could chew a nail in half. So they look in, and all the Burger King people are standing around laughing, and the cops who've already been on it for 12 hours, still in the uniform, this canine vehicle, can't get a chicken sandwich. So they look in, the employees are all gathered around the counter laughing, yucking it up. All right, then what happens, Commander? He just pulls off and, you know, he's told not to confront them and contacted the sheriff and the sheriff contacted me uh that was the thursday afternoon uh the morning of the 18th we contacted uh the corporate office of burger king and uh there was some mix-up as to which burger king it was in zachary or in saint francisville so we

cleared that up very quickly and said it was not the one in Zachary. It was the one in St. Francisville, and that was the Friday, and we were told to wait for a call from corporate on Friday afternoon of the 18th, and we never heard anything from them until— Okay, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Commander Cavalier, hold on just just a moment i'm sorry to interrupt you please don't throw me down on the asphalt and arrest me but you keep saying things that i didn't already know from reading about it so this is the one that went that the burger king in saint

francisville and i think they probably got that mixed up because your guys have been training I think in Zachary Louisiana that's correct you call corporate and corporate didn't even bother to call you back you know what it'll be a cold day and you know where before I go to Burger King again and that includes the french toast sticks that the children love. To hey with that, you know what? They're eating oatmeal at McDonald's. Now, they didn't even bother to call back after a sheriff calls them. Let me ask you something. Why did you think it was important to make that call that somebody within the leadership called Call Burger King Corporate.

Well, you know, we're quick to, the sheriff is quick whenever one of our people violate procedures to, you know, get it out as quick as we can publicly to remain transparent. But on the other hand, if they're involved in something that's really not their fault, we have to defend them. If it's truly not their fault, we have to defend them.

And we have policies and procedures set in place through a chain of command. And they follow that chain of command. And we're expected to obey the chain of command and do each our jobs. And that happened to be where I was at that day and and required to make that call and i did make the call and stayed in a fight with him for a week before i heard from him you had a fight with them for a week before you heard back what do you mean by that well we we never heard from anybody until actually Friday. I think it was the 17th.

I'll confirm that in one second. I'm sorry, Friday the 15th. During that week, we had a letter to the editor that was published in a local paper that I had wrote, a very, very small local community paper. And it got onto Facebook, and one thing led to another. I think Blue Lives Matter had picked it up as well. And I received a call from corporate, actually from the owner of the Burger King, who would not even provide his name to him in requesting an apology because the letter said, the letter to the editor said that police officers were

refused service. And he disputed that. Wait, they were refused service. And for another thing, I don't trust anybody when they won't even give me their name. Correct. Oh, Commander Cavalier, I used to love reading out to juries an indictment where the person had a lot of aliases. If somebody won't even give you their real name and identify themselves, there's a reason for that. Correct.

And it's nothing good. Nothing good. So let me understand this. You write a little letter to the local paper. What paper was that? This is the Bayou Pioneer in a little community called. The Bayou Pioneer. Pioneer.

In the community called. Pierre Park. Two words. P-I-E-R-R-E-P-A-R-T. Louisiana. And then it gets picked up by Blue Lives Matter. And then, you know, the Facebook and I received a call from the owner on that Friday, and he's very upset. And he basically said, I said, well, what are you disputing? He said, well, you know, we fired the people that were

responsible for this. And he said, but they never refused to sell to police officers. They refused to sell to the general public. Well, I said, I'm not understanding. He said, well, no, you're not. He said the police, the officers were not refused service as police officers. They were refused service as the general public. And I said, well, you know, we're not going to have a play on words. Why? What? Are they serious? They really want me to believe they ran out of burgers? And I can't believe the guy's calling you and wanting you

to apologize to him. Yeah, he absolutely wanted an apology. So what do they mean they were not serving to the general public? They were open. It's 4.30 in the afternoon. No, they had problems. He indicated they did have problems with that crew for several days prior to this, and they had received a lot of complaints of them not taking people's orders, just basically turning people away. But he was disputing that we should have said that they refused to serve police officers. And, you know, I disputed it as well, saying, no, I think y'all did refuse to serve police officers.

It doesn't matter which way that you intended it to be but this is what happened not serving people who just happened to be police i find it very difficult to believe that they still had their doors open if they could not serve people another thing if they didn't do anything wrong then why did they fire the people? So that's, I'm not buying that. So then what happened, Commander Cavalier? So we didn't know. He said, I have 24 hours to call him back.

And I said, well, don't. Or what? Or what? To extend an apology to to him and burger king and i basically told him don't wait on my call because you won't be hearing from me and then the next week which would have been last week it basically went all over you know nationwide through facebook and and whatever other sources. And then on Friday, this past Friday, Burger King executives flew down to New Orleans and traveled to the sheriff's office in Assumption Parish and spoke to Sheriff Falcon personally in his office.

And said what? Well, basically apologized and, you know, they were not aware of all the facts at the time, you know, extended their apologies and agreed to, you know, coach their people in a better manner, not only for police officers, but for the general public and, you know, to better serve the public and indicated that the officers had and, you know, to better serve the public

and indicated that the office had, I'm sorry, employees had been terminated. Guys, we are speaking with Commander Lonnie Cavalier, Public Information Director for Assumption Parish Sheriff's Office. Also with me, Vincent Hill, Dr. Brian Russell from I.D.'s Fatal Vows, an investigative reporter. John Limley, you know what? I'd think twice about not handing over a chicken sandwich to the man, woman, or canine that might save my life or the lives of my children. With me, Commander Lonnie Cavalier, Vincent Hill, Dr. Brian Russell from ID Investigation Discovery's Fatal Vows, and CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter John Limley, Alan Duke, and Jackie Howard with me. And we are all seething and red in the face over what happened to cops at Assumption Parish.

Denied food, denied service at a local Burger King after working about a 12 hour day at that time. Now, one thing I want to ask you is, do you really believe they couldn't serve other people? What about surveillance video, Lonnie Cavalier, Commander Cavalier? I mean, I don't want to turn this into a federal case, but I find it very hard to believe. I mean, when I go through, we have a McDonald's right up the street. And if something is wrong, like the children like milkshakes, and my mom, she likes the senior coffee. If I go through, when I get to the drive-thru, they'll have a sign up there, usually handwritten that says coffee machine not working or milkshake machine not working or whatever the problem is. I find it really hard to believe that they were out of chicken or out of burgers. So what does

the surveillance video show, Commander? Well, when we asked for the surveillance video, he said he had reviewed all of the video. That was originally, that was on the afternoon of the 18th, and that he had seen nothing inappropriate on the video. So on the call with him, I think it was the 18th, we asked him for the video again, and he said he had the video, but it was it was a personnel matter and he could not release the video to us what so we never saw the video they can't release the video to the police i've never heard of anything like that you can't release it because of a personnel matter what personnel matter well he was he was you know hanging his hat on the fact that he had terminated his people, and therefore it was a personnel matter, and it was not intended for public view. lawyer and psychologist. He just had to one-up me with an extra degree. And Vincent Hill, private investigator and former Nashville PD, to Dr. Brian Russell,

host of wildly popular Investigation Discovery's Fatal Vows series. Dr. Brian Russell, something stinks, okay? And it's coming from Burger King. Yeah, absolutely. And if you think about this in the light most favorable to the franchisee, imagine yourself having purchased a Burger King franchise and you hired some lazy idiots who decided that it would be really funny if they just started telling people coming through the drive-thru, oh, we're out of this, we're out of that,

we're out of whatever anybody's ordering. And it just so happened that some of the people to whom they did that were police officers. Just imagine for a moment that that is the scenario, and you find out from the local sheriff or the local police commander that some police officers got caught up in that. I think you would immediately contact the police, not a week later, not days later, not hours later,

immediately, and you would say, oh, my God, I'm so sorry. Here's what happened. I had these stupid idiots working for me that were telling people in the drive-through that we were out of everything because they didn't want to work and they thought they were being funny. It wasn't singling out police or anything like that. You

would turn over the video. You would offer free lunch to every cop in the jurisdiction. You would bend over backwards. And I'm not seeing that here. So I'm skeptical of this story that we're getting out of the franchisee. Well, I don't necessarily buy that. Now, I wasn't there, and I don't know exactly what happened, and I guess that tall tale could be true, that they were just serving nobody at all. But Vincent Hill, private investigator, former Nashville PD, if that's true, why not release the surveillance video and why fire the employees instead of i mean and not reveal any names why would you call

and not reveal what your name is why would you not show the cops what was really happening why not show the receipts that afternoon that there were no receipts from one o'clock to six o'clock or whatever the case may be to show the cops that really it wasn't about you. We just had some lousy employees and they're gone. Why not do that, Vincent Hill? Well, Nancy, quite frankly, because it's a lie. And I've been sitting here fuming for the last few minutes, Nancy. I mean, think about this. If it was flipped around, I know there's a lot that Lonnie cannot say, but if this was flipped around and an officer was involved in something, people would be demanding video. But here's Burger King holding that video because their employees were in the wrong. Listen, there were two spots in Nashville, McDonald's on Harding Place and Demas' on Commerce Drive that catered to police.

But unfortunately, we're in a climate now where police are seen as the bad guys, so people feel that they're able to do stupid stuff like this, like this Burger King did. I am furious right now, Nancy. Well, I mean, you know, Vincent Hill, I've told you this story, and Commander Cavalier, when I was prosecuting in inner city Atlanta, it took me forever. I worked the street for months with three vice officers to break up a child prostitution ring. I mean, we were on it first thing in the morning and I'd stay on it till late in the night trying to find the children, trying to get the case ready for prosecution. Got a mistrial in my opening statement because I called the defendants pimps, which they were, but they weren't charged with that. Had to start over a week later.

Long story short, yeah, okay, I did that. That was wrong. We get a conviction, all right, Commander. Then about three or four months later, I'm minding my own business trying to work. I look up at the TV screen and you know, those federal court sketches are terrible. They don't have a camera in there. You can't really make out who the people are. And I thought, wow, that looks like X, Y, and Z that I worked vice with in federal court, in jumpsuits, in handcuffs, in leg irons. I'm like, guys, is that who I think it is?

Yes. For who knows how long they had been robbing dopers blind, taking all their dope money, taking their gold chains, taking their plasma TV screens, whatever else they could find. And it was so bad, the dopers complained to the feds, and the feds did a sting and busted them. I had no idea. I had worked with these three cops for months and I just thought they were great, right? And the heartbreak and the disappointment, I felt like I got kicked in the stomach. And it's because you trust police. You kind of look up to them you expect them of all people to do the right thing

and then when they don't it's an it's a major disappointment and it makes people bitter and angry it sounds like instead of realizing that that is just few and far between people are taking it out against all cops that's's a whole other can of worms, okay? What I'm worried about right now is a chicken sandwich. So, Commander Cavalier, are you telling me you really believe they didn't serve anybody the whole afternoon? No, absolutely not, and I was not really concerned if they had or hadn't. You know, our concern was the two officers at that point

because, you know, we thought that they deserved to be served. They were out there every day. And again, if they were at that drive-up and someone was robbing a place, they'd expect those two cops to be in there taking a bullet for them. And, you know, we thought they were right and we were defending our people. We had enough information to make our case. And certainly when he requested, when he demanded an apology, that changed the whole, you know, the whole circumstance. But because we knew that our guys had not done anything wrong.

Well, Commander, let me ask you this. If they weren't serving anybody at all, why not say, our friar's not working, we can't serve anybody. I'm so sorry. Please come back tomorrow. Why not say that? I never believed that they had not served anybody. I think that there were obviously some people there, and they had not served anybody. I think that there were obviously some people during the day had not been served. I believe that the people picked and chose who

they were not served for their own reasons. But that's for another day that was not, you know, as far as my business was concerned, it was none of mine. We were concerned with our people and that was that. So you do think they served other people? Absolutely. Why? Why do you think that? Well, they had served people that were in the restaurant as the deputy drove in. Well, there you go. So we knew they were serving some people.

I'm so mad. It's making my teeth hurt. John Limley, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. What do you know, and what does Burger King Corporate have to say? Burger King Corporate did release a statement after all of this hit the press and social media. A statement? Yes. To hang with that, I want a free chicken sandwich. What do you mean a statement?

That's exactly what they did. You can't put ketchup on that and eat it. Go ahead. What'd they say? And in the statement, they confirmed the owner's claim that service had been denied to multiple customers. I'll read just a little bit of this. The actions of this team member do not reflect the values of our brand. The team member in question refused service to multiple guests on that day, including two law enforcement officials. The franchisee, who independently owns and operates this location, has confirmed that this individual no longer works for the organization. We'd like to sincerely apologize to the deputies for the poor experience and are grateful for everything they do to protect

our communities. You're making my ears bleed. My ears are bleeding from that because that just sounds like a bunch of corporate mumbo jumbo. You know what? Come out with it. You know what? We hired some lousy people. They did a bad thing and we're giving the local police free food for the next month. Come on in, eat on Burger King. Just anything for us to make it up to you who protect and serve us. You know what? But you're telling me, Commander Cavalier,

that the people inside the restaurant were visibly being served when your guys drove through. Correct. Oh. Okay, Limley, what else do you know? Well, the owner of the St. Francisville Burger King we now know is Joe Clements of Crown Restaurants, LLC. Hold on. Let me write that down. Hold on. Joe Clements. Now, who is Joe Clements? He's the man that actually owns that local franchise of Burger King. And after the corporate statement, he issued his own statement the very same day to TV station WBRZ. And again, I'll just quote part of this.

I am aware of the incident at the Burger King in St. Francisville involving two Assumption Parish Sheriff's deputies not being served. Unfortunately, it also involved other guests not being served. The actions of these team members do not reflect the values and beliefs of our organization, nor do they reflect the values and beliefs of the Burger King brand. You may recognize those words. I have investigated the incident and have determined that certain team members refused service to multiple guests in our drive-thru, including the two deputies on that day. As a result, these individuals no longer work for our organization.

I have met with Sheriff Falcon of Assumption Parish and expressed my sincere apology for the incident. Hold on right there, Limley. Is that true, Commander Cavalier? Did the local owner meet with the sheriff and say he's sorry? Yes, on Friday, along with people from Burger King. So they came in, so he came in with them? Correct. You know what?

I'll put this whole thing to rest when I see that video, when I know that they did not serve other people and not just your two officers. So, Commander Cavalier, where does it stand right now? Basically, where we left, where they left the sheriff on Friday, they've been releasing some local statements since Friday, Burger King has, and that's it. That's where we're at. We've talked to our people and, you know, told them the results of our investigation and, you know, told them they did everything right. You know, Commander Cavalier, it's not about the chicken sandwich, you know,

chicken sandwich. It's not about the burger. It's about them disrespecting officers that they expect to literally take a bullet to say goodbye to their own families and sacrifice their lives for other people. And I learned it the hard way. I had just been in the DA's office a short while and struck up a friendship with a brand new rookie cop, Randy Schipani. He had a wife. They were trying to have children. He pulled over a guy, a kid, for traffic violation. Got his, you know, citation pad, walked up, didn't even get to say anything, and the kid shot him dead right then. No reason, no conflict, no argument, no nothing.

Dead right then. And I had expected Schiappone at grand jury the following Tuesday. I'm like, where's Schiappone? I said, he's dead over a traffic ticket. That's the deal. And I'm so upset about cops getting disrespected.

I just want to apologize to your cops if you could pass it on. I sure can. Most people in America do not feel that way. Yeah, we get mad, we get angry, and we want justice when a cop does something wrong. But I'll tell you what, a cop working a 12-hour shift drives up for a chicken sandwich, I just feel bad for him.

With me, Commander Lonnie Cavalier from Assumption Parish Sheriff's Office. Commander, thank you. And I hope you get that chicken sandwich free for your people. And I tell you what, McDonald's, here I come. There's a brand new website causing a lot of trouble for people with something to hide. Have you ever had a bad feeling about somebody? Maybe suspected your partner's cheating? Maybe worried about your online reputation? If you answer yes to any of those questions, you may need Truthfinder. Public records are only recently easily available online. Before websites like Truthfinder, you'd most likely have to visit a courthouse to get that information.

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It's never been so easy to find the truth. Go to truthfinder.com slash Nancy and enter any name to get started. Right now, the TV star Heather Locklear is on a 5250. That's a psych hold at UCLA. She apparently downed a bottle of tequila and crashed her Porsche into a pylon on the grounds of her mansion. I mean, everything is going sideways for her right now.

Joining me, Alexis Tereschuk, RadarOnline.com investigative reporter, alcohol rehab advocate Michael Lohan, Dr. Brian Russell, lawyer, psychologist, and host of Fatal Vows. Also with me, private eye and former national PD Vincent Hill. Let's go straight out to Alexis Tereszczuk, RadarOnline.com. The tequila and the Porsche and the crash is just the most recent development regarding what is going on

with Heather Locklear and all the crimes, the charges she's catching en route. But how did it all start, Alexis? Start at the beginning. On Sunday, Heather Locklear was arrested. She had downed an entire bottle of tequila and then tried to drive her Porsche off her property and crashed into a pylon on the property. She has a huge property. She's very wealthy. It's a very wealthy area. Crashed her Porsche, and that's when 911 was called because nobody can handle her, and she had to be taken into care. Do I understand it correctly?

She punched another cop and kicked an EMT as she was being rolled out on a gurney? Cops came. They said that there was nothing that could have had them arrest anybody. So they left. Five hours later, 11 p.m., the cops are called again. They come back. Domestic disturbance is the incident that they say, and they are trying to arrest Heather. They actually said she was, quote, very intoxicated and very uncooperative. So they were so worried about her. It's my understanding, Alexis Tereshchuk, that she actually was having a physical confrontation with her own mother. And when the cops tried to break it up,

that's when she kicked one cop and she was acting so crazy. They got her on a gurney and then she kicked an emt you know what um that that's a lot of power you know to be you'd think when somebody's intoxicated that they would you know be more malleable but apparently not so exactly like you you would think that once the cops came but she she was so agitated that she was violently resisting this. And, you know, Heather is probably five feet tall and weighs 100 pounds soaking wet. She's a tiny, beautiful woman, but very tiny. So the fact that she was able to make contact with these officers is testimony to how distressed she was.

And as the police distressed she was. And as the police said, she was incredibly intoxicated. Now, Alexis Tereschuk, dynamite comes in small packages. Let's back it up, Alexis. You said cops were there in the last weeks. What happened that time? Cops were called again a week ago Sunday. They were called to the house again because they've been worried about Heather. But this time, when the police were called, the police said, and they said, we are, this is a hazard house.

So because the calls have been made so many times from Heather's house, that what they said, this is a hazard house. They said, the person said, what does that mean? That was calling 911. They said, Heather Locklear, this is Heather Locklear's house. She has a gun. She has threatened to shoot officers. This is a house that we are very concerned about coming to. Whoa, I didn't know that part.

To Dr. Brian Russell, lawyer and psychologist, host of Investigation Discovery's Fatal Vows, apparently she was either intoxicated or on some kind of drug. And I don't want to hold her background against her because she had, I want to know what has happened in this instance. Okay. But we do know that there have been many, many, let me just say euphemistically brushes with the law, Dr. Bryan. Well, that's right. And I think in order to ascertain what happened this time around, it is important to know what has happened in some of those previous rounds, because it does look like what we've got here is somebody with a troubled history,

to put it mildly, that includes, if not exclusively, at least includes a very prominent substance abuse component to it. And I think it shows how poorly we actually serve people like that when we slap them on the wrist, slap them on the wrist, slap them on the wrist. And part of the reason why we do that is because the clinical community has sort of, you know, medicalized this to the point where judges and prosecutors even will see people as sort of disease victim. Oh, this person has a substance abuse disorder. Oh, it's a disease. We have to feel sorry. We have to think about trying to help them get treatment instead of punishing them, even when they do things like assault the cops. And the truth is, you know, I have a neighbor who is a breast cancer survivor.

And it makes me so damn mad when I see one of these substance abuse treatment advocates equate her with somebody who is a substance abuser and say, oh, yeah, both of these people are disease survivors. You know how much my neighbor would have loved it if she could have decided at any moment to quit having the symptoms of breast cancer. So, you know, I think you can feel sorry for somebody like Locklear if you want to. But the thing to do is impose consequences. It's about getting it to the point where the motivation to stop exceeds

the motivation to continue, and consequences are key. Well, according to Associated Press, she was booked on three counts of battery before this and was also booked with alleged assault against her live-in boyfriend, Chris Heiser. TMZ says Locklear's brother called 911 when he goes to the home and saw her and Heiser physically fighting, and Heiser was the one that showed marks of an injury. When, on that occasion, deputies tried to take her into custody, and she became combative, flailing, and kicking. Now, allegedly striking three deputies, she was then taken to a hospital. This is, that happened back in around February.

Now, in September, it was reported she was venturing back in public. Before that, she crashed her Porsche into a ditch, suffering minor injuries. There's been one thing after the next after the next, and they all seem to be somehow related to alcohol or drugs, don't know which. Joining me right now, alcohol rehab advocate Michael Lohan. Michael, weigh in. Well, thank you very much. It was annoying.

I totally agree that when it comes to addiction and other diseases, you can't equate the two because it boils down to a choice when it becomes, when you speak of addiction. I mean, it's not like having cancer or heart disease or MS where you can just say, I want to stop. It's not like that. At the end of the day, an addict has that choice. Either I want to stop or I don I want to stop. It's not like that. At the end of the day, an addict has that choice. Either I want to stop or I don't want to stop.

And there's a lot, you know, I went through the same exact thing with my wife, Kate, that Heather's going through now. And there's a lot of factors involved in this. I mean, the medications that she's on, how it mixes with alcohol, a whole blackout phase, but they're not treating her properly. You can't treat this by going to AA meetings like she goes to.

There's a lot more to it. The first step that she really needs to take, and any doctor will probably agree with this, is to take a PGX test, which is an adverse medication test, which will tell if the medication that she's on is actually working for her or not. And if you drink any alcohol on most medications, you're going to have a horrible effect. Michael, I don't know that she's on any medication at all.

I mean, you may be right, but why are we saying? When she goes into the hospital and she gets arrested, the first thing they're going to do is try to detox her. Now, alcohol is one of the most dangerous drugs of all to detox someone. More people die of alcohol detox than any other detoxer is. So they have to use some kind of medication when they're detoxing her. You can't just have someone stop drinking. You have to detox them under a medical protocol using medication.

Now, if she's in and out of the hospital within a couple of days, she's still detoxing. That means she still has medication in their system. And if she drinks on that medication, she's going to go into a blackout phase like other people I know have. And then they don't know what they're doing. I mean, there's a lot more to it. The treatment industry is broken. We are not treating people the right way. We're just talking to them like in AA meetings. There's a whole medical side to this that needs to be addressed. I mean, when people drink and use drugs, their brain chemistry is thrown off tremendously and you have to balance the brain chemistry again in order to deal with a person in a very

clear and focused way. So there's so much. This is a long conversation. I don't want to take up all of your time. But they really need to check the medication she's on. They need to look at her drinking patterns. And if they're going to detox her, she needs to be in a longer detox so that she can actually heal and be more cognizant of what she's doing. What we know in the recent hours is that just one day after the arrest, authorities respond to her home in Thousand Oaks, California.

It's a medical call. Now, this is according to Ventura County Sheriff Sergeant Eric Bouchard. What we know is that a patient, Locklear, was transported to the hospital. Now, Bouchard wouldn't name the person because it's a medical issue, but we know the person that we believe to be Locklear has been committed to the hospital. Now, as we were just outlining, Heather Locklear, the star of Melrose Place, was arrested on two misdemeanor counts of battery on an emergency personnel, that's an EMT, and a cop. Now, this is just days, about 45 days or so, after she pledes not guilty to battery on a police officer in a separate incident. Now, deputies have responded to two separate calls to Locklear's residence.

The first call was around 6 p.m. local for a disturbance, as Alexis was telling us. They determined no crime had been committed. A second call rolls in around 11 p.m. We learned that deputies arrive and they find a domestic disturbance involving Locklear and another party. Some reports have claimed it was her mother. Then she allegedly kicks one of the deputies in the leg while they are surveying the situation. She was described as extremely intoxicated, uncooperative. She was handcuffeduffed taken into custody police say that because of her

drunken state she was to be medically checked before going to jail and at that point that is when Locklear went into combat mode and kicks an EMT in the chest so she gets it on $20,000 bail within 24 hours. Police are back there on a medical call. What do we know right now, Alexis Tereschuk, regarding her being in the hospital? So she has been placed on a 52-50 hold in a hospital, which means it's more than just three days. This is 14 days of her getting treatment. She's going to be held where doctors evaluate her, try to see they can figure out what is going on with her. But after this, this is an entire bottle of tequila that she had to drink and she's got to get some help. We understand she has struggled in recent years

with substance abuse. To Dr. Brian Russell, lawyer, psychologist, and host of Fatal Vows on Investigation Discovery, what now, Dr. Brian? Nobody is going to sit down a substance abuser and talk them out of it. Rehab is something that fails 80% of the time, which is why, you know, not only that, but those of us who are clinicians, this case illustrates something else very important for people to understand. Very little power to force anybody to do anything. If somebody is actively saying they're going to kill themselves or somebody else in the next five minutes, usually the most the clinician can do is put them on a hold that lasts

a matter of hours, 72 hours at the most. And so this is why a lot of people are so misguided when they think that we are somehow being cruel to these people when we throw the legal book at them. The judicial system, a criminal court judge, is the one who actually does have the power to force people to do things that are at least in the best interest of the public. For example, keeping this woman off the road sounds to me like a very good thing

to do here in the foreseeable future. Who can do that? The judge can do that. She doesn't have to be out on bail when she was already out on a previous beef, and now here she is back again with another beef. I wouldn't have let her back out. I would have revoked the bail on the previous thing, and I would have kept her in and put steel bar, whatever the substance is, I would have put steel bars between her and that substance for the foreseeable time. That's step number one. And then I would continue to throw the book at her in an effort to at least make it, we get to the point faster where the motivation not to continue exceeds the motivation to continue. To Michael Lohan, alcohol rehab advocate, Michael, what do you think? I agree with him 100%. I think that makes all the sense in the world.

I mean, when you're releasing someone right away and you're not putting that barrier between them and the substance they're using, you're just putting them right back in the position they were in before. The only thing, and he's right, except the number is a little bit wrong. Statistically, people that go to treatment for 30 days to 45 days usually relapse within over 90% of the people relapse in the first 180 days of getting out of treatment. So the question is this, is treatment long enough? Is 30 days long enough? And the answer is absolutely not. How are you going to cure, you know, years, maybe one, five or 10 years of drinking or drug abuse in a matter of 30 days? It's not going to happen. It's impossible. And clinically,

like you said, you can't speak sobriety into somebody. It's like talking to a wound. If you have a cut on your arm and I continue to talk to it, is it going to heal? No, of course not. You have to treat it. Let me interrupt you, Michael. Explain to me, explain to everybody listening. You can't tell an alcoholic or an addict, why don't you just stop?

That doesn't work that way. It's an addiction. They can't just stop. No, you're right. You're definitely right, Nancy. You know, when they're in the throes of addiction, you can't tell them to stop. But here's a very valid question. Why is it that some people go to treatment and after one time of 30 days, they do stop? And some people, it takes 10 or 15 times before they do stop. Did they really learn anything the last time that they didn't learn the first time? No, absolutely not. Some people like myself in 2005, I was put in a position where I went to jail for DWI. I made the decision to stop. I actually died in a car where I went to jail for DWI. I made the decision to stop. I actually

died in a car accident. And that was it for me. That was my epiphany. People need, what does it take, Nancy? Does it take losing your children, losing someone in your life, in your life that you love, losing your own life, or being that close to losing your life to make you stop? It shouldn't be. But for some people it is. It's just that it boils down to a choice. Am I going to live like this anymore? And like I said, if you're in active addiction, that's a tough thing to do because you're in the throes of it

and you're gripped by it. But through the process of the more time you have in a program, the more the chance of you being able to make that decision come to fruition is going to happen. We need more time to deal with people. 30 days isn't enough. And unfortunately, that's all insurance companies will pay for. Well, you know, I'm hearing what Lohan is saying, Vincent Hill, but I have another concern. I want her to get well, and I want her to get the treatment she needs, and I want her daughter to be brought up in a home where the mom isn't intoxicated or on drugs,

if that is the case. But, Vincent Hill, we've got the whole issue of her kicking, hitting a cop. This is not the first time around. And kicking an EMT.t all right that's not okay no it's definitely not okay nancy but you know i'm just an ex-cop i'm definitely not a psychiatrist or someone that's versed in alcohol i never accused you of that but what i can say i've lived with someone i think there's a deeper issue here. And a lot of people don't associate alcoholism or drug abuse with mental illness. But my ex-wife was bipolar, and one of her symptoms was to self-medicate with alcohol and drugs.

So I think there's a deeper issue that Heather is dealing with. And until that's diagnosed and diagnosed properly, I think she will continue to be in this cycle. That's just my experience with living with someone who had a mental illness. Right now we await the fate of TV star Heather Locklear. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend. There's a brand new website causing a lot of trouble for people with something to hide. Have you ever had a bad feeling about somebody? Maybe suspected your partner's cheating?

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