Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - In the Valley of Sin: MOM & DAD ARRESTED AT FAMILY SUPPER FOR CHILD MOLESTATION

Episode Date: May 10, 2021

In The Valley Of Sin is a six-hour docuseries that examines the mid-90's witch-hunt that pitted neighbor against neighbor in Wenatchee, Washington, when police uncovered a monstrous child sex ring known among its membership as 'The Circle.' Local authorities alleged that dozens of children were raped in the bedrooms of their parents, in the homes of their neighbors, and at ritualized orgies on the altar of a church. But there was one problem: there was no sex ring, a truth that only emerged after 43 parents were arrested and dozens of children were made wards of the state. Today Nancy Grace speaks with the Doggett family.Joining Nancy Grace today: Amber Doggett – Daughter  Sam Doggett - Daughter    John Doggett - Son   Carol Doggett - Mother. Wrongfully convicted of child rape and molestation in 1995   Mark Doggett - Father. Wrongfully convicted of child rape and molestation in 1995     Tom Grant - Award-winning journalist (30+ years), former reporter, KREM, Associate Professor of Journalism at Abraham Baldwin Agricultural College, co-executive producer of “In the Valley of Sin” and other documentaries, www.drthomasgrant.com    Elizabeth Loftus - Distinguished Professor, Psychological Science: Criminology, Law & Society; Cognitive Science; School of Law, University of California, Irvine, leading human memory expert   Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. A witch hunt in the apple capital of the world? A rural valley where neighbors actually know each other turns into the scene of one of the worst sex scandals in U.S. history? Hard to believe, but it happened. Let's start with a listen to this. It's a three-hour drive from Spokane to Wenatchee. You drive through the basin of Washington State where they grow

everything, and then you drop down into this river valley where Wenatchee lies, and it's full of apple trees. This is the apple capital of the world. You're hearing Tom Grant, reporter, KREM co-executive producer of In the Valley of Sin. How does the apple capital of the world with that music playing in the background fit in with In the Valley of Sin? I think more of Vegas when I hear of Sin City or the Valley of Sin not Wen Wenatchee, the apple capital of the world? No. Joining me right now, Tom Grant, award-winning journalist, former reporter, KREM, professor of journalism, Abraham Baldwin Agricultural College, and co-executive of In the Valley of Sin. You can find me at drthomasgrant.com. Dr. Elizabeth Loftus is joining us, distinguished professor of psychological science, criminology. Oh, I could go on and on. University of California, leading human memory expert. Okay, let me let that sink in for a moment. And special guest joining us, Mark Doggett, father and husband, Carol Doggett, mother and wife, and their children, John and Sam Doggett.

Guys, before we get started, take one more listen to our friend Tom Grant, KREM. Well, now she has people who are hardworking and God-fearing and appreciative of their neighbors. You can see this as America's Eden, but humanity is burdened with that serpent in the garden. If I could tell my 11-year-old self one thing, it would be run. Get the f*** out of there. Save yourself. You were just hearing the voice of another special guest joining us, Amber Doggett. And you were hearing her say, if I could tell my 11-year-old self one thing, it would be run and get the F out of there.

But why? I want to go first to Carol Doggett. Carol, explain to me what it felt like to get arrested. Thank you for having me, Nancy. The night that I was arrested was like walking into the twilight zone. Like, I could not believe that I had been arrested. I considered myself a child worker. Not only did I have my own beautiful children, but I ran a daycare for a while in the 80s. I took in foster kids. You know, I love kids.

And to me, kids are easy. easy listen to them pay attention to them give them what they need and and you can have a happy family and it was um it was definitely a nightmare like it was beyond comprehension let me ask you a couple of questions, Carol, because, you know, many people believe the home and the family centers around the mother. No offense, Mark, but children often run to mommy for love, for reassurance, for protection. I want to hear about you. Where are you from? I'm originally from California. And Mark and I moved up to Wenatchee to raise our kids in a healthier environment. And we loved Wenatchee. And, you know, it was a small community.

Let me ask about Wenatchee to Tom Grant. Tell me about Wenatchee. Wenatchee is a beautiful city. It's, you It's small. At that time, about 40,000 people. It sits in a valley between the mountains and the wheat fields. A beautiful river runs through it. It's great for swimming.

And it's just, you know, it feels like, well, it always felt like springtime to me. Perhaps that's because they have a big apple blossom festival. That's what you think of. All the apple blossoms blooming in this beautiful city at the edge of the mountains. And it's a lovely place. Wow. It sounds so much, Carol, like where I grew up in the middle of middle Georgia, unincorporated Bibb County. We had cherry blossoms, not apple blossoms.

So you go there to raise your children in a more rural, safer environment. That's what I'm hearing. Back to when you were arrested. What happened? Where were you? Well, we were at home. What were you doing? We were eating dinner, and we had just finished up, and John had gone to stay with his aunt in a nearby town. Right. And the aunt, my sister, had called me and said she was just hysterical. And she said they just came and got John. I was like, who?

Who just came and got John? And she said this big police guy and this CPS guy, and John didn't want to go. He was really scared. Okay, hold on. Right there, a cop and CPS Child Protective Services. That's what that is. So you get this call at the home during dinner, supper, that they just, quote, came and got your son from his aunt's home. And then what happened? Well, I tried to calm her down. What happened then? So there was a knock at the door

and Mark answered the door and then he stepped outside and then he was gone. And then there was another knock at the door and I answered the door and it was two uniforms police officers on the court. And they said, ma'am, can you step outside? And I stepped outside and then they said, you're under arrest. And I was like me, why am I under arrest? And they said, just come with us. I said, can I go in and get my purse and tell my family where I'm going?

Because we had extended family there with us. And they said, no, just come with us. And then I was put in the back seat of a car and taken away. To Dr. Elizabeth Loftus, Distinguished Professor of Psychological Science and Criminology. Dr. Loftus, again, thank you for being with us. My pleasure. You know, many people look at the home as a place where you're safe, a sanctuary. What is your response to this happening to a mom who seemingly has no idea what's going on?

Just listening to this, to a mom who seemingly has no idea what's going on? Just listening to this, it's absolutely horrifying. That she has no idea, that they won't give her a moment to tell the people in the house, that they just whisk her away. It's horrifying. Well, I guess on the other hand, if cops really believe you've done something horrible, a felony, I guess they would come in. Dinner and family? To hey with that. They're making an arrest. But why? Take a listen to this. I was a pretty good kid. I was Mormon. And one thing about being raised Mormon is we never had the kind of talks that taught us about sex. I hadn't been to sex ed yet in school.

Things were happening. One of my younger sisters and I started experimenting, playing around, fooling around. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. I was a pretty good kid. I was Mormon. And one thing about being raised Mormon is we never had the kind of talks that taught us about sex. I hadn't been to sex ed yet in school. Things were happening. One of my younger sisters and I started experimenting, playing around, fooling around. She did not like it one time and told my older sister about that.

My parents came to me about it, and, you know, of course, it's very embarrassing and shocking. And even though I knew it was wrong, I didn't I didn't know what we were doing. So my parents, they knew that they couldn't handle it on their own. They needed help. So they went to counselors. You were hearing the voice of Carol and Mark's son, John, who had been, I guess, euphemistically speaking, playing doctor with his sister and got busted, was embarrassed, didn't really know how to react. And he's with us right now. So, John, how old were you when that happened? You were at your aunt's, correct?

Yes. My parents thought it would be more appropriate to have me removed from the house. We had several, I mean, besides my sisters, we had a couple foster girls that were living with us as well. Joining me, John's dad, Mark Doggett. Thank you for being with us. What went through your mind when you made the hard decision to send your son to stay with his aunt? It wasn't that hard of a decision.

It just seemed like a logical decision. I mean, we were trying to get to the bottom of things. And like John said, house full of girls and things as they stood, it just made sense. To daughter, Sam, do you remember when all of this happened?

Yes, I do. What do you recall? My younger sister called me upset and told me what had happened. And I wasn't living at home at the time. I was down in California with some family friends. And I, in the dramatic teenager I was, felt responsible and told my parents, told my mom what had been going on. And it escalated from there. And joining me now, Amber Doggett, sister, daughter. Amber, thank you for being with us.

What are your recollections of this time? I was fairly young at the time. And how young? I was 11. And I might have been 10 when this first started to come to light. And so me and my young, our youngest sister were kind of kept in the dark a little bit. We knew somewhat what was going on, but we were pretty distracted by just childhood life. We had these two new foster sisters that were fun and new and interesting. And we had our friends and we lived across the street from a park. And so we didn't really know all of the details of what was going on we just knew that that brother had to go live with aunt for a while and that was it take a listen to this we packed john's things up and took him to moses lake to

stay with his aunt terry where she was going to enroll him in school and in counseling and all of the our girls then would go back to school and life would continue on. And we felt like we had handled it really well. So your idea between Carol and Mark Doggett was to send their son, then about 13, to go live with the aunt, get him away from the girls. Let's be very clear, Carol, were any of the girls raped? No, not that I know of. Absolutely not. We had asked, we had asked them if, you know, what had happened, if they had been touched and, and all but one said no. And then our daughter that, that had been, we got her into counseling

and that was, you know, that was the best we felt like we could do. We did everything that we could think of to take care of it, to make sure the kids got what they needed and that they were safe. We didn't know what else to do. And so the night that you and your husband are arrested and put in the back of a patrol car, you think that the girls are being questioned about that and that John, your son, has been picked up about that incident, correct? Correct.

Little did you know. It was about so much more. For those of you joining us, we are visiting the apple capital of the world that almost seems like a Disney story until a mom, a dad, a son, and children are all taken into police custody. Why? Listen to this. It started out the same as before, you know, asking me about my sister. And then they started asking me if my parents had ever abused me.

Of course, I said no. The idea of it was shocking. And they just kept on that vein. They wouldn't believe me when I told them the truth over and over and over. and arrest you, you have no idea that you're being arrested for molesting your own children, according to them. That's right. In fact, when my sister called and said that they had picked up John, I tried to calm her down. And I was saying, it's okay. They're just going to talk to him. They're just going to interview him. And, and I said, they're CPS, Terry, child protective services. They're here to help. To Mark, husband and father. What is your recollection of what happened that night? Pretty much what Kel said. I knocked at the door, asked me to step out on the porch and unlink the cuffs and you're

arrested for you know child molestation and it twilight zone it was you know there's no basis in fact you know you know that in your head, but here you go. You're in the back of a cop car. So let me understand their theory. Straight out to Tom Grant, award-winning journalist, now co-executive producer of In the Valley of Sin. Their theory is, the cop's theory was that not just the father is molesting the children but the mother is molesting the children but the mother is also sex molesting her own children they're what in it together this is something that was we saw in wenatchee is that that um that there was a theory that parents did this together.

That's a yes. Their theory is, the cops' theory was that both Carol and Mark were both sex molesting their children. Is that right? Yes, cooperating with each other and covering up each other. So my question isn't, was mommy covering for dad? My question is, did the cops believe, again, both mommy and daddy were physically, each one, both of them, sex molesting their children? Yes. I just read the documents again, and that's what they allege,

that both the mother and father were having sexual contact with the children. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Elizabeth Loftus, professor, psychology, University of California. I prosecuted a lot of cases, a lot of child molestation cases, a lot of molestation on children by fathers. Very often I would see a mom try to cover up for the dad or, frankly, just refuse to believe it. In fact, almost always. But rarely in all the literally thousands of cases I investigated and or tried, have I seen a mother and a father both raping, molesting children.

Yeah, it's just very, very rare, Elizabeth. Would you agree? I would agree completely with you. You know, having worked frequently as a consultant or expert witness on scores of cases, it's mostly just the males who are accused, but not in Wenatchee. You know, I want to go back to John Doggett. You were taken out of your aunt's home, and if the police were right, then they're justified.

But tell me what happened once you got to Police HQ. Well, they actually took me to the CPS office in Moses Lake. Right. And took me into a pretty nondescript office with Bob Perez and Tim Abbey, the police officer and the Child Protective Services guy. I didn't know he was the head of CPS at the time. And they kept me in that room, basically interrogating me for hours. It was, I want to say close to midnight by the time they left me alone. It felt like that late. I don't know what time it actually was, but then they both left and left me in a room all by myself. They didn't give me any information. I ended up just laying down on a couch and just waiting. And eventually, a couple that I had

never seen before showed up and said they were there to take me to their house. What went through your mind the first time they asked you had your parents molested you oh i was incredulous uh i it was such a foreign concept to me to be hurt in any way from my parents that i you know i i didn't even have the words to to tell them how how stupid that idea was um they were asking me things using terminology that I was not familiar with. I was really confused, really scared. Bob Perez is a very intimidating officer. Let me go to Sam Doggett, daughter and sister. Were you asked the same questions?

Basically, I didn't meet with Bob Perez first. I met with two social workers, two caseworkers, Dean Reimann and Pat Boggess. And they interviewed my younger sister first. Um, and then when they came to me, they just said, um, I saw that my sister was really upset and I was, you know, very protective of her and I was upset too. And when they asked me questions, they just said they actually didn't have any questions for me. They had all the information they needed. So they didn't feel a need to question you. They already knew everything they needed to know. Is that correct?

Correct. So Elizabeth Loftus, right there, when you suspect mommy and daddy have been molesting children, I would assume in every case I ever prosecuted, you ask every single child. You interview every child. But for some reason, not Sam. Who knows? Yeah, who knows why? Interesting. What do you think about that, Tom Grant? I think that's one of the great problems with the case.

I mean, I'm I'm reading the court documents and has sex, beginning when the children are very young and continuing for years. And it would seem they would be obliged to interview everybody extremely carefully in these cases. The working theory was the whole family would get together and have group sex? Yes, yes. I mean, that's the theory, yes. Okay. To Amber Doggett, were you questioned about your parents allegedly molesting you? Yes. What happened?

It was with Bob Perez and Tim Abbey, and our little sister and I were in the room together at first, and then she was sent into a different room and I was questioned alone. And they asked me, you know, basic questions if I knew the difference between a good touch and a bad touch and things like that. And then they asked if my parents had ever bad touched me. And I said, no. And immediately I knew that that was the wrong answer, that they were expecting something different. Bob Perez looked angry, like his face got kind of red. And then they continued down that path. And similarly to my brother, they were asking me things that I had no idea what they were talking about. Bob Perez asked if my dad had a boner at one point, and I didn't know what that meant.

I had no idea what that was. How old were you at this time, Amber? I was 11. And they asked you, did your dad have a boner? How long did you hold out with them questioning you about your parents? I, it felt like a long time. I honestly don't know how long it was. It was, it was late at night. We had already eaten dinner.

It was dark out. Did you ever state your parents had molested you? I did. Yes. Yeah. Did you tell me why? It was very apparent to me that that is the only way I was going to get out of that room. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

After I realized that this wasn't going to end until I told them something. I told them that my mom had a French maid outfit. Because in my mind that had something to do with sex. And I told them that I came into an upstairs bedroom, and my dad asked me to lay on the bed, and he laid on top of me naked. After I told them that, they said okay. Amber, did a doctor ever perform an exam of your body, a pelvic exam, to determine whether you had been molested? Yes.

Do you know what the findings of that were? I don't. Carol, do you recall the findings of that regarding your daughter, Amber? Yes, there was no evidence of abuse. Tom Grant, isn't that true? Yeah, this was, first of all, these exams are not exactly as scientific as we might like to believe. Well, Tom, I don't know if you've ever had a pelvic exam or not, but either you have

a hymen or you don't. That's kind of simple. Okay, so I did not, you say that, but then I studied with a doctor in Michigan, subsequent You have a hymen or you don't. That's kind of simple. Okay. So I did not – you say that, but then I studied with a doctor in Michigan subsequent to these cases in which we talked about that. And there is some issues with that. In the Doggett case in particular, there was one case in which one of the children was said to have tearing, you know, some kind of tearing in the hymen, which is, and then, but the others were, they found no evidence of that. And in the case of the person who was, that they, anyway, as these cases went along, there was, it was extremely inconsistent about whether there was any physical evidence of that sort or not that was acceptable.

Back to John Doggett. Did you finally give in and state that your parents had molested you? I did. I did. And Amber pretty much nailed it on the head. That was the only way to appease them. They did not accept the truth and would ask the same question over and over and over until they got the answer that they wanted to hear. They were insistent. Take a listen to our cut number six.

Eventually I started saying yes, and then it was how many times and when. And I looked at the calendar on the wall behind him and just picked a date. And all of a sudden, they believed me. Here is Carol Doggett's recollection. Take a listen. This is from In the Valley of Sin.

Shortly after dinner, there was a knock on the door, and it was Bob Perez and Tim Abbey. They wanted to take Amber and Megan for an interview. Christmas of 94, I was 11. My mom told Megan and I, we were going to have to talk to some police officers, and we could trust them, and that they were trying to help our brother. So we got the girls ready, put their little coats on them, and we took these little girls out on the front porch and told them everything was going to be okay. Everything was going to be okay. Everything was going to be okay. I started to get the feeling that it wasn't a good situation. And I called the police station and I asked them when they were

bringing the girls home. And I said, well, because it's getting late and the girls need to get to bed. And then a little while later, there was a knock on the door. And Mark went to the door, and he stepped out. And then he was gone. And then there was another knock on the door. And I looked out there, and there was a police officer saying, ma'am, can you step out on the front porch?

And I stepped out, and he said, you're under arrest for child rape. Before our trial, they kept changing the charges, depending on what the kids were saying. John had already recanted, and all of a sudden, he went back to making the accusations. When I heard that, I threw myself down on the bed. I was like, what are they doing to these kids?

Like, seriously, what are they doing to these kids? John would never say that about us. He would never say that. In the valley of sin, what happens next? Accusations of pastor orgies in the church, on the altar? Go back from the day it started, it's a horror story. They kept calling me all kinds of dirty names and you child molester and you rapist. Worst part was this officer said, Perez is

going to get you next. We are following what happens with the Doggett family and the new Fox Nation series, In the Valley of Sin, right here on Crime Stories. All week long. Tomorrow, we learn another family gets swept up in the Wenatchee witch hunt. It's almost too much to take in. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.