Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Is Killer Yoga Teacher on the Run With Look-Alike Sister's ID?

Episode Date: June 16, 2022

Murder suspect Kaitlin Armstrong, has been on the run for a month. She was last seen at a Newark Airport. Now a private investigator is telling Fox News that Armstrong could possibly be traveling under her sister’s name. Jason Jensen says that he believes Armstrong is using the alias “Christine Armstrong.” He says he has given US Marshal's information that three days after Armstrong was seen in the New York area, a new driver's license popped up in public records under Christine Armstrong's name, using the address of a Haven For Humanity Wellness center in Livingston Manor, New York. Haven for Humanity has confirmed that Christine Armstrong is a volunteer for the company and is currently staying at its New York compound. An unnamed camper claimed to Fox News that he saw Kaitlin Armstrong at Camp Haven around a month ago.  Joining Nancy Grace Today: James Shelnutt - 27 years Atlanta Metro Area Major Case Detective, Former S.W.A.T. officer, Attorney (Gadsden, AL), The Shelnutt Law Firm, P.C., ShelnuttLawFirm.com, Twitter: @ShelnuttLawFirm   Dr. Shari Schwartz - Forensic Psychologist specializing in Capital Mitigation and Victim Advocacy (Miami Beach, FL), Panthermitigation.com, Twitter: @TrialDoc, Author: "Criminal Behavior" and "Where Law and Psychology Intersect: Issues in Legal Psychology"  Sheryl McCollum - Forensic Expert, Founder: Cold Case Investigative Research Institute in Atlanta, GA, ColdCaseCrimes.org, @ColdCaseTips  Dr. Jeffrey M. Jentzen Professor of Forensic Pathology and Director of Autopsy and Forensic Services at the University of Michigan Medical School, former Medical Examiner in Milwaukee County, Wisconsin  Jason Jensen - Private Investigator (Salt Lake City, UT), Jensen Private Investigations, JensenPrivateInvestigations.com, Twitter: @JasonJPI, Facebook/Instagram: "Jensen Investigations" Michael Ruiz - Reporter, Fox News Digital, Twitter: @MikeRreports See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A Texas love triangle turns deadly when a gorgeous young biker, the number one female dirt gravel biker in the world, is gunned down in the bathroom of a friend's apartment, shot multiple times. Why? Because a woman was scorned and that woman had a gun. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. We are bringing you the very latest in the search for the yoga instructor, Caitlin Armstrong, who is on the run. First of all, take a listen to our friends at Crime Online. Fox News is reporting that a man reported seeing Caitlin Armstrong's sister Christine

at a remote campground in upstate New York. He also claims to have spotted Caitlin Armstrong at that same campground. The Camp Haven compound in Livingston Manor is a remote camping area that Christine Armstrong has been staying at for some time. The witness claims that Caitlin Armstrong joined her sister at the campground last month in the days following the murder of Mariah Wilson. The man says he saw Caitlin up there, quote, right before the whole thing blew up, unquote. Private investigator Jason Jensen says he believes Caitlin Armstrong may be using her sister's name to avoid being captured.

With Christine having been at a remote campground in upstate New York for some time and Caitlin joining her shortly after the story went national, it is not a far stretch to think that Caitlin becoming Christine and then simply disappearing across the Canadian border. Not a stretch at all except for the fact she was spotted at Newark International Airport. With me, an all-star panel to make sense of what we know right now. But first, I want to go straight out to Fox News digital reporter. They're the ones that broke this case. Michael Ruiz broke this tip anyway. Michael Ruiz, tell me everything and don't leave anything out. Then I'm going to go to private investigator Jason Jensen, who is on the case. Okay, Michael Ruiz, hit me.

As you know, Caitlin Armstrong flew into LaGuardia Airport, the U.S. Marshals tell us, on May 14th. Okay, wait. Michael Ruiz, can we start with the date, location of the murder? Yes, we can. I want to start with that. I want to start with Mariah Wilson Moe, 25 years old. Oh, cute, cute, cute, sweet little petite, nothing but muscle, a splattering of freckles across her face. Always has a big smile on her face.

Have you noticed that, Jackie? I have. Always has her bike helmet on. Is on a bike in practically every picture. And this young girl, just 25 years old, at the prime of her life, at the top

conditions she'll probably ever be for biking, is trapped in a bathroom and shot dead. Multiple gunshots. Now that was on what day? Was that the 11th? That was on May 11th, right before 10 p.m. Okay, 10 p.m.

And you see the yoga instructor's SUV circling the apartment where she's staying like a vulture. And then she shot dead. Then what happens to the yoga instructor? So the next day, Caitlin Armstrong, the yoga instructor, the suspect in the killing of Mo Wilson, is questioned by police on an unrelated warrant and due to a clerical error. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

This is important, Michael Ruiz. Now, I know it doesn't mean anything to you, but let me go to one of the ladies on the panel. Cheryl McCollum with me, founder and director of the Cold Case Research Institute. You can find her at coldcasecrimes.org. It wasn't just a misdemeanor, Cheryl McCollum. The yoga instructor, gorgeous, I might add, who I believe is a stone cold killer, goes and gets Botox. $600. She shoots her face up with with botox not judging at all this is what i'm judging

she says oh here's my master card wait a minute let me use my other card it's in the car she goes out and takes off and leaves the salon high and dry for the botox that's what the other warrant was on and they had like the wrong dob or something on the warrant and they let her slip through their fingers on this old warrant. But can you just comment on the Botox switcheroo? Well, once again, what she's doing is all about her. It's for her. It only benefits her. It's all about her. And it also shows that, you know, she has no issue at all and no hesitation of doing like a little flim flam, a little switcheroo, as you say. And she's also not afraid she's going to get caught. She knows.

I'm going to no more leave the groceries. I'm going to leave my credit card at Kroger and run out for my other credit card and take off than the man in the moon. She is not afraid. She's going gonna get apprehended okay so michael ruiz i had to do a little detour to point out the botox scam back to you so after she's questioned and released on the botox warrant she flies to new york's la guardia airport didn't they question her about why her suv was spotted circling the apartment where Mo was murdered. And she went, oh, that doesn't look too good, does it?

And they let her go, Michael Ruiz. According to the warrant, the murder warrant, you know, for the Mo Wilson case, which was not secured until a couple of days after all this, after the interview and after she fled. She couldn't explain that. They asked her about it. They confronted her and she didn't really give them an answer, according to the warrant. So she flew to New York on May 14th. Okay.

Murder May 11th. She's questioned about the Botox. She's questioned about her SUV at the murder scene. They let her go inexplicably, and then she's spotted in New York three days later, May 14th. That was in New York, LaGuard la guardia okay then what happens okay so then from la guardia we don't know where she goes until may 18th she spotted at newark but jason jensen the uh great private investigator that he is flagged us a tip that there was some activity

in between there in New York. At first, we were wondering, why would Caitlin Armstrong go to New York? What links does she have there? I interviewed a lot of people who knew her. Nobody knew of any ties to New York that she had. But Jason Jensen realized that there was a tie. Her sister happened to be in New York and happened to show up on some public records in New York. You know what, Mike or Louise?

Here's something else I like about you. You know, my son is a great basketball player. He's just 14. But he always hands off the basketball to somebody else. My dad did that too. Instead of always taking the shot himself, he hands it off to his friends. You just did that. Jason Jensen is who Michael Ruiz is talking about.

Jason Jensen, private investigator out of Salt Lake City with Jensen Private Investigations. You can find him at JensenPrivateInvestigations.com. Jason, tell me about how you found Caitlin Armstrong's sister up in the middle of nowhere in upstate New York. Sure, that's really quite simple. Anyone with experience looking for fugitives, know a couple things about fugitives is, number one, they're going to go try and find a location that they're familiar with, that they can blend in

because they feel like they're accustomed to the area and they know the routines. The other thing is they often go looking for a family member or a trusted confidant that they can get assistance with. Well, here, what we learned is the last place she was seen was on the 14th of May. She was walking through LaGuardia Airport. So it's like, why was she there? there. So I did a deep background on her and then family members. And I see, lo and behold, that there was an address pinned to her sister, Christine Elizabeth Armstrong in New York. It's

like, why is she in New York? She is a Texas resident. Why is she in New York? So I looked a little deeper, did a comprehensive background on her, and I see that she obtained a driver's license on the 17th using an address for Camp Haven. Why would you need a driver's license if you're visiting a different state at a campsite. Okay, now wait, let me understand something. The sister got a new address or Caitlin got a new address? I mean a new driver's license. Christine, the sister did, but if Christine got a temporary address and she's a Texas resident with a Texas home, why does she need a New York ID? And another thing to Jeffrey Jensen, Professor of Forensic Pathology

and Director of Autopsy Forensic Services, University of Michigan. I'm thinking about all of the forensic trail left behind. I don't think this is any coincidence that the alleged killer in this love triangle, the yoga instructor, Caitlin Armstrong, turns up in New York on the 14th, spotted again, leaving, we think, out of Newark, spotted in Newark on the 18th. And on the 17th, it pops up her sister, who bears a striking resemblance, gets a new driver's license in New York.

That's just not a coincidence, Jeffrey Jensen. No, typically when we're investigating cases like this, we delve into the background. And as you know, Nancy, that there is always trace evidence left either on the victim or on the perpetrator. So it's almost impossible to avoid some kind of evidence trail, either DNA or some kind of personal effects. In this case, it appears to be issues to attempt to change her identity. You know, Cheryl McCollum, I'm thinking about what Jason Jensen just told us with JensenPrivateInvestigations.com.

You know, how many times are you in court with me and there would be a bond forfeitor, in other words, a defendant, a felony defendant didn't show up for court, first thing I'd say is go look under Mama's bed because that's where he's going to be. He's going to be at his mother's house or his aunt's house or his auntie or his granny. Look under the bed, look in the bedroom closet and bring him to court. And that's exactly what

Jason Jensen is saying. You always go to a place familiar to you. And this is her sister. Yes, I think she's definitely had help from her sister and possibly her father. If this was my case, Nancy, the murder being on the 11th, her being questioned and released on the 12th and then flying out on the 14th, I would concentrate on the 13th. That's your money tree. That's when she got the burner phone. She got some cash.

She packed her clothes and her yoga pants. That's when she made calls, phone. She got some cash. She packed her clothes and her yoga pants. That's when she made calls, emails, text messages, instant messages, however she communicated with her family. That's the day she set all this in motion. And it's going to be there. And you know what else? Michael Ruiz, joining me, a reporter with Fox News Digital, who first broke this about her being spotted, we think, up in upstate New York with her sister. When Sheryl McCollum just said she's using a burner phone, she's not just a yoga instructor.

She's also a realtor. And she flips houses, buys a house, and very quickly sells it for more money. So she's cash rich, we think. So she has money to buy several burner phones and to travel. Yeah. So the U.S. Marshals have said that. They told us about her career. They told us she may have cash on hand. And she seems to be tech savvy enough to know, well, if I use my phone, they'll find me. So I'll use a different one or who knows what. But it's pretty reasonable

to think that she's aware of that. And we haven't seen her obviously popping up on social media or anything in the past few weeks. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Is she getting help from Sister Christine? Is she getting help from Sister Christine? Is she getting help from her father? Take a listen to our friend Matt Gutman with Armstrong's father from ABC. Mike Armstrong is shattered. He said his daughter is not capable of committing the crime she's accused of,

murdering a love rival in a fit of jealous rage. But there is one thing that he and authorities agree upon at this point. There are a lot of unanswered questions here. We love you, Katie, and we are going to figure this out. This morning, the father of missing murder suspect, Caitlin Armstrong, speaking exclusively with ABC News. I know her. I know how she thinks and I know what she believes. And I know that she just would not do something like this.

I know her. I know her. He says his daughter is not capable of committing the crime she's charged with, shooting her alleged romantic rival, rising cycling star Mariah Wilson. That is what they believe. I know that she did not do this. There are a lot of unanswered questions. Well, there are a lot of unanswered questions. And I got to tell you something, James Shelnut with me, 27 years Metro Major Case, now lawyer at the Shelnut Law Firm, joining me out of Alabama right now.

James Shelnut, there is no father daughter privilege like attorney client privilege uh priest uh congregant privilege husband wife privilege anything that she may have said to her father or sister is not privileged if they are drawn if they are called to a grand jury right there there's not a legal one but you know that's daddy's baby girl and he's gonna to do whatever he can to protect her. And that includes denying anything that she says, denying cooperation. You wouldn't lie for your child.

Oh, yeah. Listen, I will tell you this. Daddy's baby girl is daddy's baby girl. And yeah, I would like to think that I would do what we all need to do, which is be straightforward and forthcoming. I don't know what I would do in that position. I don't know. I tell you this. I think my father would walk through hell and back to protect me. And I think this father would, too. So long story short, the reality is she's getting help from somewhere to Jason Jensen, private investigator joining us out of Salt Lake City.

Jason, tell me what witnesses are saying now. You've told us her sister Christine. Do you know what Christine looks like, by the way? Well, yes. I mean, the nice thing is about this day and age, everyone has social media, and Christine definitely is on Facebook. So you compare her images to her sister, Caitlin, you'd almost swear that they were twins. You know, just a little hair color change, hairstyle change.

And you could actually double as your sister in this situation. Absolutely. My thought. Exactly. Mike, this reminds me of scott peterson uh do you remember dr sherry schwartz uh forensic psychologist specializing in law and psychology in fact the author of where law and psychology interact question to you dr sherry do you remember when scott peterson went on the run uh and he was caught he had bleached his hair blonde.

He had about 10 grand, a lot of camping equipment, Viagra, and his brother's ID, as I recall. Remember that? Yes, I do. Families stick together, and I have no doubt in my mind that brothers and sisters help each other. And did you hear what Jason Jensen just said? They could be twins. Yes. And you have empathy for the family because this is their sister, their daughter. You don't

want anything terrible to happen to them. Texas does happen to be a death penalty state. But as a psychologist who works in this business, I see it a little bit differently, Nancy. I see somebody who perhaps has never been taught to take responsibility for their actions. And this isn't just guided by what she's accused of here, but by the Botox charge. The sense of entitlement. It's mine. I can get away with it because I've never had any real consequences in my life. You know, it's interesting that you're saying that. Ruiz, Jensen, everybody jump in on this. But Cheryl McCollum, do you hear what Dr. Sherry Swartz is saying? Think about it. It's not just the Botox theft. It's not just going on the run. It's a lifetime, A lifetime. Think about it. Her boyfriend, Colin Strickland, was cheating.

So did she break up? No, she started stalking him. She started stalking Mo, Mariah, on this app that people use to follow cyclists and their paths. She, I guess, acted with a sense of invincibility that nothing was going to stop her. And she was going to do whatever she wanted to to get what she wanted. Some people would argue, you know, impulse control. But these weren't impulses. These were premeditated acts. Oh, yeah, this was calculated. And, you know, it's funny when her dad says there's so many unanswered questions.

Well, let's talk about the answered ones. It was her SUV. She's got no alibi. She's got no excuse for her car being there. It was her freaking gun, Nancy. She also said she wanted this girl dead. And a tipster called in to the police, which means she was telling people. Those we know are facts. So,

you know, dad could say there's all these unanswered questions, but the most significant thing he didn't say is turn yourself in. All over a man, and no offense to the men in the studio or the men on this panel, but really, I mean, I love my husband. But he, to my knowledge anyway, and believe me, I've looked, doesn't have girlfriend's numbers and his phone under another name. He's not lying about where he is. When he says he's at work, he's at work. When he says he's at the grocery store, the pharmacy, the laundry, that's really where he is.

I don't have to follow him around town to try to find him. I mean, as my grandmother would say, that kind of man is not worth the salt that goes in his bread. So why would you kill over him? We keep talking about Caitlin Armstrong's family, but what about Mariah Moe's family? Listen this our cut 14 this is Jennifer Sanders KXAN police say Wilson was visiting before a weekend race now according to court documents she met up with Colin Strickland a popular cyclist in the Austin community last Wednesday Strickland is Caitlin Armstrong's boyfriend according to court records but in the affidavit Strickland is Kaitlyn Armstrong's boyfriend, according to court records. But in the affidavit, Strickland said he and Wilson had a short romantic relationship. Now, after Strickland

dropped Wilson off, investigators say security footage shows Armstrong's vehicle parked near the house. They also say ballistics testing shows a firearm that belonged to Armstrong is the weapon likely involved in the murder. According to court documents, an anonymous caller told police that Armstrong made statements in the past expressing a desire to kill Wilson. It's important to note, though, that police say Strickland, but other friends have left the state of Texas, afraid that Caitlin Armstrong is now going to come after them. And another thing to Jeffrey Jensen, professor of forensic pathology, joining us at University of Michigan. It's not rock science. It's not brain surgery to get a match on ballistics. Reportedly,

Caitlin Armstrong had just gotten this gun. It was a Sig Sauer. All you do is put a fresh bullet in that gun, shoot it into a barrel of water, into a pillow. Then you take it and you take a bullet from the body or from the crime scene, the known bullet. You look under a microscope and they will have identical, like a fingerprint, striations, markings on the bullet that no other gun will leave. Right? Yeah, you're correct, Nancy. analysts these days have really sophisticated equipment that they can microscopically examine fired bullets and make comparisons in a way that they couldn't do in the past. They can also check the fired cartridges to see if those cartridges left at scenes, for example, could be attributed to multiple shooting scenes.

So the modern crime lab firearm analyst has really a lot of tools to make those comparisons. To Michael Ruiz, joining us, Fox News Digital, who just cracked this tip wide open about Kaitlin Autron being spotted up with her sister in upstate New York. Isn't it true the murder weapon was found at the home of Caitlin Armstrong? Right. So in the arrest warrant, it says it's Strickland's home, but we can kind of assume that they were living boyfriends. She lived there too. And they identified this weapon. Strickland had purchased it for her a few months earlier they said it was very significant to the case and they recovered it so they got it and i made a ballistics match by now i'm sure and to you james shelnut joining me 27 years metro major

case now lawyer shelnut law firm the thing that's found at her home means it was taken from the crime scene and left there. And you have evidence of flight. For instance, I'm at a murder scene. I hear a police siren and I take off running. That should tell a jury that I'm up to no good. I mean, of course, a jury can do what they want to. But evidence of flight is very powerful, James Shelnut. Oh, yeah.

You know, we tend to get laser focused in and for good reason. Get laser focused on the evidence that's left at the scene, matching this ballistic. You know, whose gun is it? But the totality of the circumstances is huge in this situation. She has a motive. It's her gun that was used. It's her vehicle that was outside. And when they find this lady, she runs and flees out of state. Nothing but elbows and tail hole, as I like to

tell the jury. Takes off. You see nothing but her rear end running in the distance. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Back to you, Jason Jensen, joining me, private investigator, Salt Lake City. I understand, is it you or Ruiz that is reporting a witness at this campground, upstate New York, spots Caitlin Armstrong there with her sister? That is all the credit of Michael Ruiz going deep dive and contacting Camp Haven. What I reported to Mike as a tip was the fact that she obtained a, you know, that the sister obtained a license three days after Caitlin was last seen at the LaGuardia Airport. What the significance of all this actually means is that while everyone's looking for Caitlin Armstrong from Texas, they're not looking for Christine Armstrong from New York.

So that really should be an emphasis there, amplified during this story, is because that was the perfect way to blend back into the community that you're looking for somebody entirely different, right? I got a question for you about that driver's license for us. Circle back to Michael joining us from Fox News Digital. Jason Jensen, when the sister Christine got the new driver's license, did she just apply for it in the mail or did she have to go get another picture taken? And if she did get another picture taken, did she alter her appearance? Did she cut her hair?

Did the sister dye her hair? Did she in some way alter her appearance to make so her sister, Caitlin Armstrong, on the run could go more easily under the radar? Or was it a situation where you just write it in and they mail it to you? She would have to go to the driver's license division to obtain a completely new identification because her last ID was a Texas ID. And so for her to be at a camp in New York state with her fugitive sister out on the run, there's really little reason for somebody in New York at a camp to go get a driver's license in the state of New York unless you're establishing residency. But who has a residence listed as a camp? Nobody. You know, though, to Michael Ruiz, I think it's not just a camp, Camp Haven compound.

It's actually Haven for Humanity. And she was there either employed or as a volunteer in communications. Okay, Michael Ruiz, let me give the credit that you're due. You go up there and there is a witness that spots her reportedly there, that spots Caitlin Armstrong. Tell me the whole thing. All right, well, first I want to give some credit to Steph Pagonis, my colleague at Fox News Digital, because she was the one who actually met this witness. Wow. She's awesome. She's great. You've met her. And she was up there and met this witness who basically confronted her at the end of the edge. There's a private

road going up to this campsite, campground you want to call it compound they describe themselves as a holistic uh renewable campsite um it seems to be they're very into organic food they grow a lot of food they also own a uh an organic market in town nearby uh so it's it's it's like a retreat uh it's a place where you can be in undisturbed nature. It's very beautiful and very remote. It's beautiful. And they seem to be self-sufficient. If you look on their social media, they're building a lot of structures themselves. They're doing a lot of farming themselves. They're doing a lot of carpentry work themselves.

So it's kind of, you know, I almost want to call it like a commune type place. I don't think that's specifically what it is, but it's a self-sufficient sort of a way to be off the grid and in nature. So back to the, as much as I like talking about organic food and being off the grid, can I get back to the witness? Right. So right on the road, going up to this campground, there's a man there. He looks like someone who works there, but I'm not sure. He identified himself as a long-term camper. And he told us he saw Caitlin. He saw U.S. Marshals after Caitlin had come and gone. And he said that this happened before it all blew up, before everything went crazy. So that lines up with the timeline of her going to LaGuardia Airport, which is about two and a half hours away.

And that was before things blew up. That was before there was a nationwide manhunt for Caitlin Armstrong. Okay, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. Let's get the timeline down as best as we can. I would think she flew from Texas, probably, I think it was Hobby, to LaGuardia. She got there on the 14th. Then I think that's when she hooked up with her sister because then she was spotted back at Newark, you know, what, 10, 15 miles away in Jersey on the 18th.

Right. So wouldn't you place her there between the 14th and the 18th? Now, I know that it had to be after the 14th and the 18th now i would i know that for it had to be after the 14th right and did she go back to the camp after visiting newark that we don't know that's something we haven't been able to pin down because the witness didn't have an exact date on when he saw her other than it was before uh everything kicked up now every the 18th they were looking for her by then uh the warrant came out around then. But had the story gained enough traction where everybody would recognize her at that point,

that's kind of what we don't know in terms of what was going on in the ground over there. So this guy, who is a long-term camper, tells Stephanie Pagonis, your colleague at Fox Digital, that Caitlin Armstrong was there at Camp Haven up in Livingston Manor, New York. It's a compound, an organic renewable source compound. Beautiful. I've seen it before everything blew up. Well, I think that means before it hit the news, before he heard about it. I still say it had to be after the shooting. What about it to Jason Jensen? What do you make of this timeline? It's clear that she wants to flee the state so that she's not going to meet an immediate arrest. She knows it's coming.

That's why she takes off. She's looking for assistance. She goes up to New York State to have help from her sister. You know, following the old fugitive textbook. So when do you place her there? The best of your calculations, Jason? Well, what puts her there is the fact that it was widely reported by the marshal service that she was seen at LaGuard guardia that's what led me to look in new york and then to see an address from her sister you know just switches it up that's why she's there guys take a listen our cut 33 our friends at the u.s marshal service speaking to news nation she's suspected of committing murder and so in a case like that, she may be getting more desperate.

And as she does that, she becomes more dangerous. And so our intent is to find her as quickly as we can and to bring her into custody. You know, Cheryl McCollum, founder and director of Cold Case Research Institute, I see really at this point only two choices either. That close to the Canadian border, I mean, it is so easy to cross over. You don't have to go through an official border crossing. As a matter of fact, she'll take a listen to our friends at CBC News, Cut 34A. Roxham Road has fast become the busiest illegal crossing into Canada.

This year, almost 12,000 made the trek. Border running in the Champlain Valley is not new. Plattsburgh was part of the Underground Railway for American slaves making their way north to Canada. There's over 500 kilometers of frontier where New York, New Hampshire, and Vermont butt up against Canada. And Roxham Road isn't the only place people jump the border. We can actually get up to the border and patrol east and west. Brad Brandt is a supervisor with the U.S. Border Patrol. He's brought us to another spot in Vermont where people are also border jumping.

This road comes in from Canada, stops right here with this barrier that one of the local residents put up. So they drive along this road. Yeah. And they just hop over the logs and... They're in Canada. So we've had people, just like at the Roxham Road, we've had people that fly into JFK, take a bus to Burlington, take a taxi from Burlington to this location. And literally just step across logs and you're in Canada.

So Cheryl, I see two things. One, she's right there with Canada within throwing distance. She either did that, going with her sister's ID. Her sister goes and gets a new ID. Or she takes sister's ID and she heads out from Newark International Airport to, you know, climbs unknown. What do you think? I think that obviously she's got some help with transportation because, again, even when

she landed in LaGuardia the first time, to get to that campsite is two and a half hours. She had to have a car. To get to New Jersey, She had to have a car to get to New Jersey. She had to have transportation again. She's either using somebody's Uber or Lyft account, or she's got some way that she's either. When our family lived in New York for so many years, we took trains everywhere. Absolutely. It can get you not necessarily to the back door of your camper,

but there are how many, Jackie? Ten? Ten. Ten train stations near Livingston. They may be 15 minutes away. They may be 30 minutes away, but she could get a ride from there. I think she's got help, Nancy. And there are trains going into Newark and LaGuardia. You just hop on one and you

blend in with millions of people. Clear. But I still think she's got help because the way she's been able to maneuver without being on any public camera again. And again, she's wearing white pants. She's not prepared to primitive camp. And the yoga mat, Dr. Sherry Schwartz, forensic psychologist, it's a dead giveaway. I'm looking for a tall, 5'8", 125-pound, blondish-brown, curly-haired yoga instructor, and there one walks through with a yoga mat on her back. She's not really trying to hide, Dr. Schwartz. She's not trying to hide, and that just shows the lack of insight and foresight that this woman has because this is what's important to you and it's a night it's going to be a critical

identifying feature anybody who knows about this case is probably doing double takes in the airport or any anywhere in public that they see some young woman with a yoga mat on their back. Michael Ruiz, joining me, Fox News Digital. We've got to get that driver's license photo the sister took. When she went in to get her new driver's license, coincidentally, on May 17, and her sister's been in town from 14 to 18, we've got to see if she altered her appearance in any way. What do you think about that, Ruiz? Well, I've been asking about it. I haven't been able to get a copy of it myself, but if anyone is able to, I'm sure that it's the U.S. Marshal. So they're probably,

as usual, a few steps ahead of us and likely have a lot more information about where she might have gone next. What else do you know, Michael? What else do I know? Well, you know, I talked to people who grew up with Caitlin Armstrong a couple of weeks ago, and I know a little bit about her background in Michigan, and it seemed to them that these allegations that she would shoot someone was completely shocking, and I kind of want to circle back to, you know, her personality, what she might have been like, because this information just seemed interesting to me, and It seems to contradict the idea that maybe she's never faced consequences before. I know we have the Botox, you know, skip payment. But when I was speaking to people who went to school with her and who knew her,

they said she was popular. They said she was pretty. They said she was an athlete. And I said, oh, well, she was part of that crowd. Was she like mean girls? And they said, no, no, she was also really really nice so that part of her background uh stands out in insert in in a way that sort of makes this seem out of character if we're to believe that those accounts of her uh from the past you know that's really interesting to me because you would not expect a genuinely nice person all the way through high school

because I really agree with Freud that your personality is set at about age four. And if she was mean and hateful and conniving, I think it would have manifested by high school. But what about the idea, Dr. Sherry Swartz, psychologist joining us, of an obsessive love disorder? Well, absolutely. She could be obsessed with Strickland. Maybe, you know, there would be a clue in perhaps other relationships that she's had. Is she jealous, possessive, that sort of thing? Or maybe it just drove her crazy that he was lying and clearly doing things behind her back and lying to her about it. And to you, Dr. Jeffrey M. Jensen, Professor of Forensic Pathology, Director of Autopsy and Forensic Services, University of

Michigan Medical School. Dr. Jensen, what does the mode of the murder, I mean, tracking down Mariah Wilson like a bunny rabbit, trapping her and entering someone else's apartment, trapping her in the bathroom and shooting her multiple times. What does that tell you about her psyche? Well, I can't really respond to individual psyches only to indicate that we talk about excessive mortality, excessive injuries in individuals who know another person or who have a psychological tendency with them. For example, excessive stab wounds to the face, for example, might indicate somebody knows the victim or a number of different modalities of the injury, gunshot wounds, stab wounds, blunt trauma, etc. could also point to some kind of a psychological attachment to the decedent or the victim. And attachment doesn't necessarily mean you love them.

You could hate them. That could be your consuming emotion is hate. I would agree with that, yeah. Of course, I'm just a JD. You're the MD. I'm just throwing it out there. You know, I want to go back to Jason Jensen, private investigator joining us,

who figured out the whole connection with Sister Christine. Jason, what do you think is going on right now? Well, as far as what is going on with Caitlin right now, she's on the run. We don't know where she's at. Somebody out there will eventually spot her somewhere because we're revealing what little dark secret she and her sister cooked up to hide her identity and let her blend in. Because really, nobody was looking for a Christine Armstrong from New York.

So, you know, she could pass all the IDs around that she wants. No one would even do a double take. And with that ID, you know, with that ID, she could start a whole life somewhere else. Oh, yes. Start all over again. Now, all of a sudden, she's dawned on her sister's career and everything and start a whole new life in a whole new direction. She doesn't even have to be a yoga instructor. She can be just a student.

And, you know, Michael Ruiz, she's not stuck with the ID of Christine Armstrong. Once she gets somewhere and gets settled, you know how fast you can get a fake ID? I mean, you can get them online in 48 hours, and they look pretty good. Oh, yeah. You know, unless you're trying to travel internationally, you can get a pretty good fake ID. I mean, ask any bartender. There are fakes that scan, and people can get in and drink when they're underage. It's not that out of the realm of possibility. One last thing, you know, Cheryl, we keep referring to her as yoga instructor on

the run. Let's don't forget, she wasn't afraid to point the barrel and pull the trigger multiple times on a six-hour and gun this girl down in cold blood, unarmed, trapped in a bathroom. Neighbors say they think she had a silencer. I don't think we should underestimate this woman. I don't either. And I tell you, I've heard you say so many times to a jury, she got the gun. She walked to her car.

She drove and stalked this woman, waited on this woman, broke into somebody's house, cornered this poor victim, and emptied a 9mm into her. And at no time during any of that did she stop and change her mind and do the right thing. At no point did she look down at her hand with that gun in it and say, My God in heaven, what am I doing?

We wait as justice unfolds. There's a $5,000 reward. 800-336-0102. Repeat, 800-336-0102. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.