Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Is Serial Killer Stalking Portland Women?

Episode Date: June 6, 2023

Six women in and around the Portland area disappear, then turn up dead. Each victim is under 40 years old, petite, and has similar features. While only one victim's death is currently being investigated as a homicide, the potential that these cases are connected and a serial killer may be in the area is inducing panic, especially after we learn two victims knew each other well.  Joining Nancy Grace today: Kathleen Murphy - North Carolina, Family Attorney Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst (Beverly Hills, CA); Twitter: @DrBethanyLive Chris McDonough - Director At the Cold Case Foundation, Former Homicide Detective, Host of YouTube channel, "The Interview Room" Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University;  Author of "Blood Beneath My Feet" and Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan;" Twitter: @JoScottForensics Annette Newell - KXL News Host: "Speaking Freely with Annette Newell," Alpha Media USA, based in Portland, Oregon; Twitter: @AnnetteNewell16See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace is a serial killer stalking the women of Portland. So far, the body count is up to six young women, all very similar to each other, found just miles in and around Portland, miles apart from each other. Are they connected? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. It all started here. Take a listen to our friends at KPTV. Melissa Smith says Kristen was last seen here near Mall 205.

Take a look at this flyer they've posted around parts of Portland. Melissa says she likes to wear different wigs, so she may not look exactly like the photo on this flyer, but she has a tattoo of a red butterfly on her right hand. It is quite like a piece of you is missing. Each day that passes and Melissa and Haley Smith don't hear from 22-year-old Kristen Smith, they get more concerned she's in danger. A main concern of ours now is sex trafficking. We don't know, but with things we've been told or, you know, people that know her are saying it's a possibility because this is not like her to just disappear. Not like her at all. Listen.

Kristen's mom, Melissa, last talked to her on November 19th and hasn't had contact with her since. She says Kristen always checks in with family and friends at least once a week if not more. But then when I tried to reach out to her again she didn't answer and I thought that was strange I was like well she might be busy. Next day same thing and then phone just went straight to voicemail and that's where I'm like this is very odd something's not right well those feelings that intuition turn out to be true take a listen our friend Seoyoung Kim the Portland Police Bureau says they responded to reports of human remains found in a wooded area near southeast Deardorff Road and Flalle Street on February 19th. Now, authorities have

confirmed the remains belong to Kristen. I think of her every moment of every day. And her family's search has turned into one for answers. What happened? I know she didn't just suddenly die out there. Somebody did something. But they say closure would be finding out what happened to Kristen from the truth to come out She deserves justice that disappearance that death that discovery of Kristen Smith h-22 body kicked off a series of discoveries of young women all in the same area all similar in

physical characteristics all left out in the open such as in a rural a forested area one in a gutter to be found what do we know now let's start at the beginning and the beginning as we know it right now, is the disappearance of Kristen Smith. Joining me in All-Star panel, but first, I want to go to Annette Newell with KXL News and host of Speaking Freely with Annette Newell. Annette, thank you for being with us. Tell me about the discovery of Kristen Smith's body. Her body was found in a wooded area in southeast Portland's Pleasant Valley neighborhood. While the case of the murder of Kristen Smith, and I find it really difficult to believe that anyone would assume that she just goes off into the forest and dies. I mean,

this is clearly a homicide. That said, while that case is still under investigation, just days later, yet another body is found. Take a listen to our friends at CrimeOnline.com. With three children, she could always count on her family to be there for her. In the first week of April, when family members hadn't heard from her for a few days, they started reaching out. After not getting her by phone, family members started talking to one another, trying to retrace their steps back to figure out who talked to her last and, more importantly, when. Realizing it had been longer than anybody realized, the entire family got worried about Joanna Speaks. That's right, a mother of three, Joanna Speaks, the next person. Take a listen now to our friends at Fox 12.

Just before 6 p.m., Ridgefield Police and Clark Cowlitz Fire responded to this abandoned property and found Speaks dead near the barn. A medical examination ruled it a murderer, and Clark County sheriffs believe she was killed elsewhere, then moved to this location. But her killer has not been found. There's no way that she would have gone down without a fight. So whoever did do this likely had injuries or something like that personally as well, like from her fighting back.

How do you continue on? I don't know. Yeah. Nothing is off the table as to what we're thinking could have happened. The family of Joanna Speaks is left shocked and speechless after getting a phone call that their 32-year-old sister from Oregon City was found near an abandoned barn in Ridgefield, Washington. Joining me right now, a professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and star of a hit series, Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. He coincidentally is marking the 100th program this week. Joe Scott, thank you for being with us.

I find it really interesting that no one is saying Kristen Smith was murdered because I believe she was. Why would you go off to a secluded, heavily forested area and just die of natural causes? That doesn't make sense. But I'm curious about what you think regarding the discovery of the second woman, Joanna Speaks, that's one out of six so far found in the Portland area where police are convinced that that was not where she died, that she was brought there, dumped there, which adds an entire new dimension to these murders. Yeah. With Ms. Speaks, you're talking about a case that is actually not in Oregon. This case actually originates in Washington across the river.

But still all within just a few miles from each other. Yeah, within a few miles. Absolutely. And it's interesting that they say that she was not killed in this location. And they've stated near a barn and then in a barn. So that's kind of curious because that's a location, isn't it, Nancy? It's not like just saying out in the woods or out in a wooded area. That gives you an indication that an individual may have had knowledge of a specific structure

if they were looking to hide a body. Also, very significant here, this is the single case out of this cluster of six that we're talking about where we have a manner and a cause of death. Nancy, this is very personal. This is not someone that was shot at a great distance. and the neck, which means that somebody either used an instrument like a bludgeoning tool, or they used their hands to literally beat her to death or perhaps even stomp on her. We don't know yet. But you're talking about intimate contact at this moment, Tom. And this raises it to a completely different level because this is just purely horrific.

Well, I agree it's horrific, but I'm curious about why they believe that she was dumped there. This was a disposal site, which makes it at least a secondary crime scene, if not a tertiary. So is that true for all of the women? Because I'm looking for connections, similarities and dissimilarities.

Listen. Multnomah County deputies need your help after what they're calling a suspicious death in the area of Ainsworth State Park. On Monday, someone found the body of Charity Perry of Longview in a culvert near East Historic Columbia River Highway and Northeast Tumult Road. Before that, she was seen last month in downtown Portland around Southwest 4th and Washington. If you have any information in this case, please contact Multnomah County deputies. So now we have a third body that emerges. There is Kristen Smith, age 22.

There is Joanna Speaks, age 32. And now Charity Perry. Charity Perry's dead body has been found. Back to Annette Newell joining us, KXL News. Annette, explain to me how Charity Perry's body was found. She's 24 years old. Her body was found in a culvert near Ainsworth State Park, and that's in East Multnomah County. It is, again, in a rural area. And, you know, I just got a message from

one of the family members of one of these victims saying, help us find these young, beautiful women who've lost their lives all around the same time. And she said, I don't know whether there's one serial killer on the loose or multiple homicidal maniacs on the loose but i don't know which one i'm terrified of more and that's how a lot of people are feeling right now i'm thinking about this ainsworth state park and when you research it it's beautiful but it's very very heavily forested there are waterfallsfalls. There are hiking paths. Very, very rough terrain. Multiple Falls there in Oregon is a feeder from Eagle Creek, the Columbia River Tributary. And it's got a lot of visitors every year, but you've got to be made of stern stuff to go hiking there. And that is where this

woman, the third victim that we're talking about, Charity Perry's body is found. Please join us now on Fox Nation for a brand new investigation, Parallels of Evil, the Bundy and Idaho Killings. In this gripping special investigation, we bring together an incredible panel of guests who analyze disturbing similarities of evil between these horrible crimes. We speak with two female Ted Bundy survivors, Karen Pryor and Cheryl Thomas, who described their life before and after they were victims of Ted Bundy. We also speak with renowned private investigator Bill Warner, who worked in the cases, and Ted Bundy's defense attorney, John Henry Brown. We travel to Moscow, Idaho, to speak with Washington State University students

and interview neighbors of Brian Koberger. One neighbor shares exclusive insights about the suspect in the Idaho killings, Brian Koberger. Don't miss Parallels of Evil, The Bundy and Idaho Killings, Brian Koberger. Don't miss Parallels of Evil, The Bundy and Idaho Killings, streaming now exclusively on Fox Nation. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Joining me right now is a veteran homicide detective, Chris McDonough, who has investigated over 300 homicides.

He is the founder and director at the Cold Case Foundation. And you can find him on The interview room on youtube chris thanks for being with us i want to talk to you about the method of disposal that we have so far and the unwillingness of authorities in this area to entertain the idea that these cases or some of them if not all of them are absolutely connected how can six women turn up dead in this short space of time all with 70 miles from Portland all in secluded areas out in the open nobody's found inside a house or buried or wrapped up in plastic or in some type of a structure, an outhouse curtilage, as we call it under the law, a tool shed, a fishing shed, nothing like that.

They're all disposed of much in the same manner. What do you make of it, Chris McDonough? Well, it's interesting so far, Nancy, just listening to the information that we have available in the public that the authorities have not come out in a press conference of some sort and relate to the public that, look, it appears that these incidents are similar in nature and relationship to the geographic locations. And what we're doing, i.e. as an investigation arm of this, is to let the public know, please be vigilant, please be aware, pay attention to the transient systems, because we're trying to connect these dots currently. And what that does is open the valve to the public for information to flow correctly, even if it's to a single agency. The fact that the victims at this point, some of them have the very obvious connections, i.e. the geographic area within three miles, two bodies.

And then, of course, you have the wooded areas. Those are very interesting. Kristen Smith, the victim to Joanne Speaks, it's interesting that on the second one, they say her body was moved to that location after death. So the autopsy has obviously presented information that showed she was deceased and potentially could have been placed into that other geographic location. When you say autopsy, I naturally think of Joe Scott Morgan, death investigator. Joe Scott, what would you find on a body to indicate the body had been moved to that location? For me, one of the first things that my kind of fallback relative to movement of bodies in the postmortem state after death is distribution of post-mortem lividity, which simply means that's the gravitational settling of blood. And I'll give you an example.

If somebody dies on their back, for instance, that is face up in a supine position, the blood will literally, literally settle to dependent areas, which is all going to be on the backside. In other words, if you die lying face up, all the blood in your body settles on your backside, your back, your rear end, the back of your legs, the back of your arms. All the body sinks down to the lowest common area, the backside. And the reverse, if you're found on your stomach, it all sinks to the front of your body.

Go ahead. And so after a period of time, and this is key, after a period of time, lividity fixes, Nancy, which means that all those little vessels we have just underneath the skin, our capillary beds, the blood that has settled in those areas begins to leach out of those little capillary beds. And it literally stains what's called the interstitial tissue, all that tissue that surrounds those vessels. And it just stains the skin. And it doesn't matter what happens.

You can't get rid of it. So let's just say, for instance, you have an individual that is lying on their back for a protracted period of time after death. The blood settles on the backside. You take the body. You move the body to another location. Let's say you lay the body on the right side or on the back side. You take the body. You move the body to another location. Let's say you lay the body on the right side or on the left side or maybe even face down. You still have lividity on the back.

You can't make it go away, Nancy. So that's one of the first things we look for. And from a forensic standpoint, at a scene to see if a body has been moved, if it blanches, which means when you press it that means that uh there's you're within about a four hour window of the of the death because it takes about that long for lividity to begin to set in um but if you blanch it or you try to press down on the skin and it doesn't blanch that means that the person the lividity has been fixed hold on when you say blanch you mean when you press your finger into skin it turns a little bit white yeah yeah and people can do that at home just press press down on your skin and you'll see your skin turns it blanches out so if you don't blanch that means

four hours okay yeah jessica morgan when i heard annette Newell from KXL State detectives thought Joanna Speaks had been moved to that location. I was thinking that maybe part of her body. I was just thinking of her backside, like her legs or her back had movement marks. Like when you get scraped from being from hitting asphalt or being dragged across gravel. It leaves that marking on the back of your skin. Or if she had been dragged, that maybe her pants or her socks or some part of her clothing had been pulled in that direction. Do you see what I mean? Oh, yeah.

Or maybe there was some particle on her, like gravel, like I'm not even sure what, that affixed to her that was not in the environment where she was found, like an asphalt scrape. And of course,

those particles would still be in the scrapes if they looked at them. Yet she's found on a lawn or sitting up against that barn. That's what I thought of. But what you said was really interesting about the lividity and the blanching. Hold on, guys. Kathleen Murphy, lawyer, joining us out of North Carolina. You can find her at NC, North Carolina, ncdomesticlaw.com. She has also investigated and worked on many, many cases

that end in homicide. Kathleen, jump in. Thank you, Nancy. I just want to point out some similarities of these victims. I was doing a little bit of reading and a lot of these sweet women have been very petite build. They have a very small build, five feet, five one, smaller frames, easy to carry, easy to place. And a lot of the women involved clearly, clearly come from loving families who are missing them. And we need to find some type of connection or some type of answers for these families because the women involved had a very, very similar type of lifestyle and they had a similar type of family connections. Nancy, if I could jump in about that, Portland, Oregon is a very outdoorsy place. People love to hike. They go to the public parks. They're out and about. And all of these women

seem to have been apprehended when they were out in public. And I think that's a very important similarity. This is not like somebody is breaking into their apartment or into their cars. Remember Richard Ramirez, the night stalker? He broke into women's homes at night while they were in their beds. So that's a very specific offending style. To apprehend women, murder them, take them to a different place when they are already outdoors tells us something about this guy that maybe he's an outdoorsman. Maybe he's the kind of guy who watches women as they hike or as they picnic or as they hang out with their friends.

You know, there's been plenty of cases where serial killers will find young lovers who are maybe in a lover's lane kind of situation or, you know, having sex or making out in their cars by a lake. That's a particular type of offending style paired with victim selection. Again, Richard Ramirez would break into people's homes. Look at Koberger. We don't know if he would have gone on to become a prolific serial killer, but he targeted college women who were in sorority houses. So this at least gives the public some kind of clue if there's a serial killer that ties all of these cases together

that she is kind of on the move out in public. You know what that's a really good observation you're hearing Dr. Bethany Marshall renowned psychoanalyst joining us out of Beverly Hills you can find her at drbethanymarshall.com that is a really good analysis of how these women may have been accosted, ending up dead. We have described Kristen Smith's discovery, Joanna Speaks, and Charity Perry. But then an unidentified Native American is found. Guys, take a listen to our cut B. An unidentified woman between 25 and 40 years old was found dead near I-205 and Southeast Flavelle Street. The Multnomah County Medical Examiner's Office is asking for the public's help identifying her and provided this

sketch. They say she was possibly Native American with medium-length black hair and about 5'1". At the time, they say she was wearing a long-sleeved green t-shirt, a black and white jacket, and black and white Adidas cleats. She also had two tattoos, a black music note with the letter V on her chest and the Buddha on her back. Straight back out to death investigator and professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, Joe Scott Morgan. Joe Scott, how is it that in this age of fingerprints and DNA and dental records that we have an unidentified female body? And how do they know that she is Native American? Well, obviously, they've probably employed the use of a forensic anthropologist here because when it comes to identification of race, that's their forte. That's what they're going to go into. And we don't really know how extensive any kind of changes in the body might be relative to her.

But what we do know is that there's at least significant soft tissue because they're identifying tattoos with her nancy we're talking about a musical note we're also talking about an image of the buddha which is significant and those are identifiers oh jay scott yes ma'am just throw out something like that because to me that's the bombshell. You said the Buddha tattoo is significant. Yes, it is. I find the tattoo significant in my mind because I may be able to trace the tattoo parlor and figure out from them who came in and got the, I believe it's a butterfly and then the next tattoo. And very often, once a person gets one tattoo, they go back to the same tattoo parlor. Tattoos have been critical in identifying bodies and even proving cases.

For instance, if I'm trying somebody for murder and they have a tattoo such as a tear coming out of their eye, which in some places signifies they've already killed one person. It can mean other things as well. I can't wait to show that to a jury. So here, this woman has a musical note. Yes, it was a musical note, not a butterfly. And Buddha. So very often they go back to the same tattoo parlor.

Maybe I can identify her through that. Or maybe Buddha indicates how she worships. I don don't know but it opens up a plethora of possibilities but what were you talking about when you said it's very significant well it's significant first off you've got a combination right it's not just like you have the singular image of the buddha the singular image of the musical note you have a combination so that makes her distinctive as to dental identification hey look in order to make a dental dental identification you gotta have pre-death dental records and right now they don't know now if they can narrow this down possibly and as far as fingerprints go we

don't know what the status of her body was were they able to lift prints off of her that is to roll a print off of her finger pad or was her body compromised to the point decomposed? That is where they couldn't do that. And if she's never been hooked up on charges at all, Nancy, she's not going to be in the system. OK, well, what he's saying is in many jurisdictions, if you have a felony charge, you give your DNA. Not all by far, because the ACLU is fighting that tooth and claw. Or what about this if she's ever put her DNA out there for genetic genealogy? That's a possibility. Who's jumping in? Who's this? This is Annette Newell. I was just looking at the Maldonama County Medical Examiner's Office statement about this and in addition to the tattoos they also mentioned two large scars

on her lower left leg to help identify her so i thought that that might be interesting thank you now what could that indicate if it were like across her tummy i'd say oh a cesarean section or across the throat i would say some type of a trach or something to do with her vocal cords, which would then we could trace back to a hospital. But what does the leg scar mean to you? Was it some type of an accident, Joe Scott? Yeah, and you would have to qualify that. You know, when they say scars, that's very, every single one of every one of us on this panel has a scar of some kind. And so you don't know if it's surgical in nature which they could tell at autopsy even with severely decomposed bodies you can appreciate that or did she have a bicycle accident when she was a little girl and fell off of her bike and she

sustained these scars we don't know at this point Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Oh, Joe Scott, just last night I was talking to John David and Lucy, and John David actually has a scar that looks like a smiley face on his thumb where he cut himself on a scout campout. And he was, catch this, showing somebody else how to use a knife. All right. So that said, and you're right. This could come from a bike accident when she was a little kid.

It could come from a motorcycle accident. It could come from a surgery. Oh, but Annette Newell, how many people have a musical note tattoo, a Buddha tattoo, and a scar on her leg? You're so right, Annette Newell. Two. Two large scars on her left lower leg. And still unidentified. Well, I've only made it to four victims so far. So let me move to a 31-year-old

young lady, Bridget Webster. Take a listen to our friends at Crime Online. Bridget, also known as BriBri Ramsey Webster, comes from a large and tight-knit family. She's close with her two brothers, Dylan and Brendan, who describe their sister as beautiful, goofy, and intelligent. Webster frequently shares cooking tips from her mother and photos of her two cats on Facebook. In fact, Webster recently welcomed three kittens and is working on finding them good homes. Then, Webster disappears. Dr. Bethany Marshall, you know what strikes me about what our friends at CrimeOnline.com just said? It sounds like all of us. I'm constantly sending pictures of recipes and something I made and this and that and the other thing. And talking about finding homes for the kittens, it makes her

so real to me. Nancy, this is a woman who loves her mother, loves her siblings. They love her. It sounds like she's fostered three kittens after having a cat of her own, and now she wants to find good homes for them. This is a good person. I mean, this humanizes her. This places her in the context of family relationships and community. But you know, the Native American, I was thinking about those tattoos, they really tell a story. They tell a story of somebody who maybe has a Native American heritage, has migrated to maybe an out culture type situation where now she's interested in Buddhism. Maybe she's gone to college and studied music or she plays in some

kind of a band. So these tattoos also tell a story of a rich life, a person with a personality, with a community. You don't just get a musical note tattoo if you're not embedded in the music community in some way. So we look at these two victims and now there are overlapping circles between different communities. The music community, the animal shelter community, people who foster kittens and then rehome them or rehouse them, or people who generally know the different animal rescue centers or veterinary clinics in a certain community, people who send recipes, they may be a part of an online cooking community. So now this really places these women's personalities, their lives in the context of culture,

community, friendships, love, so we can begin to delve a little further into who they are. And Nancy, who might have accosted them, murdered them, who may have known them? What is the thread that ties all of this together? And not only the unique individual characteristics, but as Dr. Bethany Marshall just said, we're looking for commonalities. These characteristics as they relate to characteristics of the other woman right now we're talking about one two three four five the fifth female victim in the Portland area whose body has just been found April 30 2023 Bridget Webster take a listen our forensic KOI and cut 14. The Polk County Sheriff's Office

investigating after a Milwaukee woman's body was found abandoned in their jurisdiction. Deputies say Bridget Webster's body was found on Sunday near Mill Creek in northwest Polk County. They say Webster was last seen alive in the Portland metro area. The Sheriff's Office asking anyone who knew her or has information about her death to call detectives. Back to Annette Newell joining us KXL. How was Bridget Webster's body found? 31 year old Bridget Webster. Yeah in northwest Polk County although it doesn't mean that that's where she where she died. We don't know that yet um but you know one thing i want to mention about rigid and another of the victims joanna is that they knew each other you notice how close in age they

those two are 31 and 32 they were actually childhood friends bridget and who knows each other joanna joanna speaks they were actually very close as as children. Okay, right there, right there. Joe Scott Morgan, how are authorities saying that these cases are not connected? How are they saying that, that there's not a serial killer? How can there be this coincidence? Two young ladies, similar in age, 31, 32, one found April 30, one found April 8th in the same area and their childhood friends impossible you're not talking about a metro population of like 5 000 people nancy we're talking about portland oregon which has a huge population what are the odds that these two would have known one another in childhood and then they would both be found deceased in isolated areas in

pretty close proximity from a chronological standpoint. It's very hard to get past that intellectually, I think. You begin to think about this. What kind of connection do you have between these two women? When were they last together? I think that that's significant. When had they both had communications with one another and you begin to see a connection? And then even further, who are the common components in their life?

Who are the individuals that they still have contact with that know something about them intimately? Is there anybody in their current situation in life that knows their comings and goings that you can tie it back to that individual? That's somebody I'd like to ask some questions of. Guys, we haven't even gotten to the sixth victim, Ashley Real. Take a listen to our cut three, our friends at KGW. We've heard from two of the law enforcement agencies handling these cases. And basically, they're not ruling anything out at this point. They're talking with partner agencies on the off chance these cases are somehow connected. And this comes as a relief to the family of one of the five victims.

These woods off southeast Judd Road in rural Clackamas County is where deputies discovered the remains of Ashley Real. The 22-year-old was last seen in late March at a fast food restaurant and transit center in East Portland. These photos of Real are some of the last before she turned up dead in that heavily wooded area. I want to understand why authorities would say these cases are not connected to Kathleen Murphy, veteran trial lawyer joining us out of North Carolina. What do you think? I am shocked at the news that the two victims knew each other.

I am concerned that all of these women have similar builds. I tied together the location of all of the bodies. And it's concerning to me that all of these women were in a very walkable transit-based area and it seems to be something that's fairly easy to pick up a small woman. And I do think that there's a connection between these deaths and the location and the manner of death. Back to Annette Newell joining us from KXL. What do we know about the circumstances surrounding the discovery of Ashley Real? There's actually a video of her that police have been posting

that was the last time she was seen alive. She was at a fast food restaurant in Southeast Division Street on March 27th, and that she may have also been at a transit center, a MAX station that same day. And she's an Hispanic female, four feet, 11 inches tall, as you mentioned, 85 pounds, a very small young woman. And we know that, let's see, they have descriptions of what she was last wearing. She was carrying a tote bag and it just created a lot of panic in the area when we were like this is like you said this is the sixth person in a row that we've been asked to try to find and then and then again she's found in a

wooded area um in in the southeast area guys uh this is what they're publicly saying take a listen to our cut 18 our friends from koin it's definitely something they're looking at um you know they're aware that there's there seems to be some similarities there but it's too soon for them to say that there's you know anything directly linked between these the deaths of perry webster and real are all being investigated as suspicious we spoke to neighbors near where Smith's body was found in February, telling us law enforcement teams have been back to the scene several times since then, where teams were walking shoulder to shoulder in the fields. We're a big enough metro region, especially here, where people come and go across the bridges,

and so they're very used to working with the other agencies in other states. Okay, let's figure out why they're saying that. Why they're saying it's too soon to say anything directly linked between them. When two of them were childhood friends. Joe Scott, what is happening? I don't know. My thought is, how far back in time do we want to take this to find out if there are other women, I think this is going to be significant, that fit this grouping that we have, you know,

what we know is slightly built, this sort of thing. They're found in isolated areas and rural depositions out here. I'd like to know, are there any others, you know, looking back one, two, years, that remain unsolved where we have questions about this? Are healthy, young women, now these are under 40, Nancy, just walking out into rural areas and falling over dead as a hammer? I don't understand that. That's the big question. And to this point, other than misspeaks, we don't have a cause of death on any of these. But Nancy, as a guy that deals in medical legal death investigation, it really makes me scratch my head.

I want to know why these young women are dying and why are they dying in isolated locations. And I want to know why the authorities are saying they're not connected when they're in such close proximity. And two of them were childhood friends. They even look similar physically to Dr. Bethany Marshall. Have you ever looked at all of Ted Bundy's victims side by side? They are amazingly similar right down to the part in their hair. Nancy, it's so true. And these victims, I was just looking at their photos.

Some of the similarities are that they have certain kind of an innocent look to them. They look very natural. They don't look like a California sorority girl who's had their teeth fixed and their hair dyed and, you know, everything just perfect, perfect. These are girls who have been outdoors, who may be exposed to the elements, hikers, bikers. They're very natural looking young women. They're petite. Mostly they have dark hair. So there's definitely victim selection and profiling going on.

I have some thought about why the police are saying that, you know, none of these, they don't know what the connection is between all these cases. And, you know, I don't know the police like you do, but it does place pressure on them to solve the crime very quickly. As soon as the public knows that there is a serial killer on the loose, there is panic and pandemonium. Again, I reference Richard Ramirez, the Night Stalker. I mean, just because that's my own personal experience with that kind of thing, because I was in graduate school at the time. My roommates and I were terrified to go to sleep. We would have one person stay up. We would tie rope around our windows, even though we had locks. We would like booby trap everything because we were so terrified. And this story

still makes its way into my practice today, women who are traumatized by that. So we have a potentially traumatic situation that could just cause a mass hysteria. And I think they're trying to maybe put the clues together a little bit more before they start to say that there's a serial killer on the loose. Guys, so far I've counted six agencies working this. Portland PD, Multnomah County, Oregon State Police, Polk County, Clark County, and Clackamas County. And they say they're all working together and that they are sharing information. Well, that's good to know, and I hope that's true. If you have or think you have information regarding this investigation, dial

503-823-0000. Repeat, 503-823-0000. We wait as this investigation unfolds. Goodbye.