Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Is Tad Cummins the Pervy Teacher of the Year?

Episode Date: December 27, 2017

The disappearance of former Tennessee high school teacher Tad Cummins and high school freshman Elizabeth Thomas last March is one of the hottest topics covered by Crime Stories with Nancy Grace in 2017. Cummins is scheduled to go on trial in January for the kidnapping of the 15-year-old girl. Nancy Grace reviews the sensational case with Memphis reporter Shane Deitert and Crime Stories co-host Alan Duke in this episode. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph, Channel 132. 39 days. That's how long law enforcement, family and friends have been looking for Tad Cummins and his kidnapped victim. It all started when Cummins, a 50-year-old teacher in Tennessee, was seen by another student kissing the 15-year-old girl. The student reported that, and Cummins was later suspended and soon disappeared with his victim. Jill Cummins tells Inside Edition that when her husband, Tad, called her from a California jail, he confirmed her worst fear,

admitting that he slept with the teen as they evaded police for more than a month. Tad called me from jail. What was the first thing you said to your husband? How could this happen? Why would you do this to us? Why would you abandon me? Why would you leave with her? And he kept saying, I love you. And I said, I'm sorry, but I'm not going to say that back. Just imagine if you take your daughter to school, or your little boy, but in this case your daughter, and drop her off, everything is fine, no problem. Then at 3 o'clock, you're busy working, and you assume everything is on track. That evening, you realize she never came home.

I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories, and that is exactly what happened in the case of a young girl who goes missing only to discover her own teacher, Tad Cummins, out of Columbia, Tennessee, has fled the jurisdiction with your little girl. Not only that, you find out there have been red flags for some times that a storm has been brewing right there in the local public school that apparently everybody knew about, including teachers and principals, except you. This teacher, who is married with children and grandchildren, is on the run with your little girl. And lo and behold, where do they turn up? On the other side of the country.

The other side of the country. At the very end of the Northwest, in a commune, living on a filthy mattress, where the people living in the commune downstairs can barely stand the loud sounds of, let me just say, statutory sex assault going on upstairs your daughter your child will thank god she's alive she's brought home finally just on the cusp of tad cummins actually renting a boat and crossing the water with the little girl to get to a safe place out of the U.S. jurisdiction. That was the plan. They had even tested a watercraft. With very little time to spare, Elizabeth is brought home. Tad Cummins arrested. His wife files for divorce finally. But now he wants out of jail. He hasn't even tried yet and he is trying to

beg his way out of jail on bond. Joining me right now is Memphis reporter Shane Dietert. Shane, thank you so much for being with us. What's the very latest on Tad Cummings? I had to spit his name out. Tad Cummings' trial is scheduled for January 2nd. However, his attorney has asked for a continuance.

He is going through a discovery and says he hadn't had enough time he also hasn't had enough time hold on just a moment to alan duke joining me from la not enough time hold on when was when was elizabeth this little girl when was she kidnapped to start with when did that happen this was in march of 2017 let me count okay march april may june july august september october november nine months he should have known the moment he left with elizabeth that he was going to get caught so in my mind he's had nine months to figure out what he's going to say back back to you shane uh memphis, joining us. Shane, hold on. So, he wants to get out of jail.

Mm-hmm. O-H-E- double L, no. Okay, and Shane, as you know, you've known me for a long time. I've given up cursing because of the twins, and it hurts. Now, I have to spell things. It takes a really long time. I've said

one curse word, one, since I gave up cursing, and Lucy heard me. She was three rooms away. She heard me. She's just looking at me when I came in. I went, what, my love? She goes, Mommy, I heard what you said. I went, what? So busted. Okay, so anyway,

I can't get away with anything. Back to you, Shane. He wants out on Bond. That'll be a cold A-N-double-H-E. Let me you, Shane. He wants out on Bond. That'll be a cold A-N-double-H-E. Let me get it reversed. A cold A-N-H-E-L-L. Okay, I got it. I'm not used to spelling my curse words yet.

So what else does he want? And why does he think he should be out on Bond? Nancy, he says he's not a flight risk. Wait, stop. I'm sorry to keep interrupting you, Shane. Wait, wait, wait a minute. That was funny. Wait a minute.

Hold on. Alan, where did we find him holed up in a commune of free love where people walk around naked? Where was he? It was in a commune in a very remote area of Northern California. This guy allegedly bought a canoe at Walmart or somewhere to row across from San Diego into Mexico. So he's not a flight risk. Okay, Shane Dieter, you were saying what about being a flight risk? And this is after he outsmarted the cops and the FBI. The FBI was on it because it was across state lines. so no one state had jurisdiction.

So he tricks everybody. But Shane Dieter, Memphis reporter joining me. Shane, didn't some video surveillance turn up of him? They were in like a Burger King or something. It may have been a Walmart in Oklahoma City. And that was the first time that they'd been seen, Nancy. Yeah, you're right. You're right.

He left. I think the Burger King turned out not to be them or the whatever fast food place. Oh, yeah, the Walmart was where he was buying hair dye to change their appearance. So he goes all the way from where to where, Shane? He goes from south of Nashville all the way to Oklahoma City, which is, gosh, Nancy, that's probably about seven hours right down the interstate I-40 in the middle of the country. And of course, I don't know if they stopped at any flop houses or live in motels. I hate to even think what happened there. But they end up at a free love commune. And I'm referring to that

euphemistically where you can walk around without your clothes on. Even the people free love commune and I'm referring to that euphemistically where you can walk around without your clothes on even the people in the commune were uncomfortable with Tad Cummings they kicked him out isn't that what happened Alan they the people who want quote free love there's a lot of different words for that but free love I'll go with their term even they were disgusted with Tad Cummings and this young girl and they kicked him out of their commune that okay that's bad Alan when you get kicked out of a free love commune for being with a young girl there was a young man who ironically was from Tennessee who was there and he dealt with them and befriended them and was nice to

them and gave them things but he finally realized it was so creepy and realized who they were that he called the cops, and that's how they got caught. Creepy. You know what? No offense, Alan, but you're sounding a little bit like Harvey Weinstein's camp. Creepy. It's a crime. It's not just creepy.

It's a crime. Girls that age cannot consent to, let me just say, since anybody could be listening, this is over Christmas break, a carnal relationship. Period. Bam. End of story. Nancy, as we review the story of Tad Cummins and Elizabeth Thomas, let's start with what the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation told us in that first week after the teenager disappeared with her teacher. Thomas, 15 years old, disappeared on Monday, March 13th and is believed to have been kidnapped by 50-year-old Tad Cummings, a former teacher at her school in Murray County, Tennessee. On Tuesday, the school district in Murray County terminated Cummings in the wake of an ongoing criminal investigation into alleged

inappropriate contact he had with Thomas at the school earlier this year. Cummins is a white male, six foot tall, weighing approximately 200 pounds and has brown hair and eyes. He is believed to be armed with two handguns, as you know, and believed to be driving a silver Nissan Rogue with Tennessee tag 976ZPT. Warrants have been issued for Cummins, charging him with sexual contact with a minor as well as aggravated kidnapping. On Friday, as you know, the TBI added Cummins to its top 10 most wanted list here in the state of Tennessee. There's currently a $1,000 reward for information leading to his capture.

Part of our investigation right now is trying to determine how we got to this point. And we've previously disclosed that Cummins had a troubling pattern of behavior. And increasingly, everything that we're learning about him does nothing to calm our fears and our concerns for her. She is definitely a victim. She may not realize that she's a victim, but she is certainly a victim. She needs help, she needs our best efforts, and she needs the attention of this country to be on the lookout for her. Her home situation, as you've heard from other folks, may not be the best, but her family loves her. Her brothers and sisters love her, her dad loves her, her mom loves her, I'm sure. Her community loves her. They want her home and we want her home as well. Our message to

Elizabeth is we're still coming for you. We're going to do everything in our possibility, everything in our capabilities to bring you home. Your family wants you here. Your friends want you here. To Tad, we would say the same thing his wife said on Friday. You have an opportunity here to do the right thing. This is not who you are. This is not who your church knows you to be. This is not who your family knows you to be. This is not who your grandkids know you to be.

Do the right thing. Give her up. Turn yourself in. Bring her home. I want to get to all of his lies. Shane, I hope you're sitting down. Can we start with him telling his class, his children at school that he's a CIA operative and that he has a safe house? And I think it was Costa Rica when things got too, quote, hot in the U.S. for him.

Hold on. I'm going to have to get a soda. I've sworn them off, but I feel sick to my stomach right now. A CIA operative? Help me, Shane! You know, Nancy, that's one of the things. It seems people who live in a fantasy land, they come up with that, and if you try to ask them something, they'll tell you it's classified. And it's, you know, how are you going to figure it out?

District Attorney Brent Cooper was our guest on several shows as this story unfolded last spring. He talked about Tad's crazy lies. What other stories has he told? Well, that he was former fbi and his former cia and uh that he had millions of dollars stashed away and uh i think he even told some kids that he had uh you know properties in different countries and and mansions and things like that it It's just, I mean, the story just grows constantly, apparently, or did while he was teaching. So what other lies did he tell Alan Duke?

There's so many. Poor wife. Ted Cummins claimed to be a great songwriter and singer. I remember the song, that weird, strange song that he sang to another teenage girl at the school, Destiny Parish. She recorded it, only later realizing just how pervy those lyrics were coming from a 50-year-old teacher to a 15-year-old student. Well, Destiny joined us on a Crime Story episode to share her story. Oh, yeah. Let's hear that right now. Let's hear that right now. How did it come about

that he sang a love song to you? I was a piano player back in the day. I don't play too much anymore. And I'd learned a new song and I was going to show it to him because, you know, like I said, he was a good friend and I was really impressed with myself for learning it. So I took him, we went to the music room, which is, you know, right next to his class. And it was after school. And he had sat down first. And he, you know, started playing. And, you know, I just kind of listened, obviously, and follow after he did.

You know, we were kind of done after that. But he started singing that. And like I had said, about halfway through the show, I started recording because I thought he was doing good. I didn't notice the lyrics at first, but I really, you know, I can't sing and play the piano. You know, I thought it was a pretty cool thing to be able to do because I was definitely, you know, quite a bit behind in skill set back then. I could swim for a thousand miles In the oceans inside your eyes and never reach the sky.

Did he say he made up the song? He wrote the song? He didn't. He never said anything about it. But I tried looking up lyrics and could never find the same song online anywhere or any similar lyrics anything like that so i assumed that he did i could swim for a thousand miles in the oceans inside your eyes and never reach the side yeah Okay, you're the kind of woman a man can love for the rest of his life, and I don't know why. I feel it's your eyes. Oh, your eyes. Is that ringing a bell, Destiny? Yeah, yeah, for sure.

So, you're in the music room, and where are you sitting, and where is he sitting? He sat on the bench, you know, in front of the piano, and I just stood behind him. I didn't, you know, sit next to him because, like I said, we were close, but we had never, like, no physical contact really. So I wasn't super comfortable, and I was really shy. After he sings the song with those lyrics, what did he say? Not too much. About halfway through, some of the drama kids from the drama club at school were right across the hall and they had heard the piano and, you know, somebody singing.

So they came in to check it out. And that was the end of the audio clip was people coming in and, you know, saying how surprised over how good he was, all that stuff. So we weren't alone at that point. Yeah, there's nothing like ruining a romantic moment with a underage minor than a bunch of students coming into the class to just burst that bubble. When you were listening to him sing, do you recall what you were thinking or feeling? Like I said, I didn't think anything of it. I didn't really notice the lyrics too much. I was just kind of there observing it all.

And it was after I, you know, got home and listened to it again and played it for, you know, a friend of mine that I realized what was actually being said. And even then, like I said, it didn't hit me because he wasn't ever inappropriate. He was always, I mean, yeah, there were some things that sent up red flags now, but I didn't ever think that any of this would ever happen for sure. When you say things send up red flags now, like what? Well, the song for sure. I want to pause and thank our partners making today's program possible. And it is Link AKC. If you're like me, you don't want to leave your pet out of all the fun this Christmas.

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You know, there was a method to his madness, Shane Dietert, because, I mean, here it is in your back porch, Shane. It's your neck of the woods. But that day, they didn't even have school. That's how he pulled it off. They got a whole, I guess, eight or nine hours head start. Because they didn't have school that day. It was like a teacher's conference or something like that.

And the dad didn't know it. You know, she had spent the night with a friend. And the friend took her to a gas station, and Tad Cummins had taken his wife Jill's car, taken her car. He had it gassed and ready to go. And you can see her walk and get into the car on security footage. The whole time, the dad thought his daughter had gone to school. He did not realize it was a day off.

That's why, although the twins can't drive, I check it every night to just make sure there's school tomorrow. Let's go back to another one of your interviews with the district attorney, Brent Cooper, talking about the morning that Elizabeth walked out of the Shoney's restaurant and stepped into Tad Cummins' car for a ride that ended more than a month later in Northern California. The most concerning thing is that apparently Elizabeth told one of her siblings that day, either the day before or that morning, told them, if I'm not back by six o'clock tonight, we've heard it either, she either said, call the police or come looking for me. I read that.

She told a 17-year-old sister Sarah that. Right. Now, see, it makes me think that she did not plan to be away. I mean, were any of her clothes missing from the home to show she had packed a bag? No, she did take clothes with her, so that kind of contradicts that. But we do believe she told her sister that. So she may have been on the fence about going with Mr. Cummings. But didn't she spend the night with a little friend?

That could have explained why some of her clothes were gone. Well, that's true. But I think she had more than one bag of clothes, if I remember correctly. That's interesting because in that picture, that surveillance picture of her, she only has one armful of stuff. Well, I think for some reason, I believe they said she left one bag at Shoney's, where she met him. So it's really, you know, my fear, my biggest fear, is that she had changed her mind about going with Mr. Cummins

and that she expressed that to him, and he took her then forcefully. It was definitely planned out to where they had a several-hour head start before anyone realized they were missing. Why do you say that? Because he was supposed to be going to a job interview that morning, and of course she had a friend drop her off around 8.30 a.m. Monday. I think the last time his wife saw him was before 8 o'clock that morning, and she believed he would be going to a job interview that day. And, you know, it wasn't until, well, I don't think Elizabeth's mother or parents, or father, I'm sorry, reported her missing until either late that night or early the next morning.

And then it wasn't until 8 o'clock or so the next day. So almost 24 hours after they met up before we knew that Mr. Cummins was also missing. Do you believe he really had a job interview, or did he just tell his wife that? Oh, no, he didn't. It was completely made up. Hey, and what do you think about all this story he reportedly told Elizabeth about being a CIA operative and a millionaire and a black belt in karate, for Pete's sake? No, no.

And apparently he tells all of his students those stories. And the impression I've gotten is that he's really created an alternate persona for the students he has of this life that he never led with the CIA and the FBI and things like that. And all that goes into the mental coercion he was using on her. You know, this is a 50-year-old authority figure in this girl's life, a 15-year-old girl that looks like she's had a pretty rough upbringing, and he's telling her all these wild tales about himself

and really building himself up to be something he's not. And we believe that all of that went into the persuasion to convince her to leave with him. You know, that really is even scarier now that I'm hearing that, because this guy can flat out tell a lie, look you right in the face, and stone cold lie to you. So that's going to help him. Eluding police, you mentioned that Elizabeth had had a very difficult upbringing. I've read about the alleged charges against her mother, and they sounded awful. Right. And those charges are, you know, my office is prosecuting those charges,

and, you know, they're still pending at this time, so I can't talk a lot about them. But, you know, the allegations are, they sound terrible, the allegations do. And you know as well as I do that uh before abuse is ever reported it usually it's been going on for for quite a while well i was just rarely say according to statistics every time an incident of child abuse is reported it has happened statistically dozens and dozens of times before so i can't say that because there are no other claims against her that we know of other than these, and they haven't been proven yet.

But according to the numbers, child abuse happens many times before it's reported. I mean, 10 children? Is that correct, this lady, 10 children? Yes, that's my understanding. Now, at least one of them has left the home as an adult now and has moved out. But yeah, it's my understanding they're 10 children. Nancy, we did at least 15 shows focusing on Tad Cummins, including several interviews with the lawyers helping Elizabeth Thomas's father in his search for answers and for the return of his daughter.

Let's listen to what attorney Jason Watley told us back in April that he was learning about how the high school teacher targeted this child, grooming her before the kidnapping. Nancy, the grooming process that this, I think you described it as a pervert, and that's a good word. But the grooming process was... I actually think you described it as a pervert, and that's a good word. But the grooming process was. I actually said perv. There you go. That had been going on in earnest for a long time. We're hearing stories about back rubs, shoulder rubs, holding hands, being alone in the room consistently with him. A back rub?

Whoa. A back rub? Whoa, a back rub? He's giving this little girl back rubs in the classroom? We're getting reports of those kinds of things, and actually that particular allegation was in the cafeteria more than once. That's making me even madder at the Moran County school system than I already was. It would be a cold day in H-E-double-L that some male teacher gave my daughter a back rub. Uh-uh.

He'd get a knuckle sandwich, no mayo, and a heartbeat from me. All right, back rubs in the cafeteria, alone in the classroom. That's even caught in a picture, by the way. What we're learning, and I hope and pray that as we dig into this, that some of this is not true, but this is what the consistent theme that we're hearing is that he was in the nature of a counselor to her. And this is a guy with an associate's degree who's a respiratory therapist who really, he's not even a teacher. You called him a teacher in your opening. He's not a teacher. He was teaching, but he's not a teacher, at least not a teacher in the traditional sense.

Wait a minute. Wait a minute. I didn't think you could teach in the public. I mean, I taught while I was waiting. I student taught while I was waiting to get into law school, English. And I didn't think you could actually teach in the public school system unless you had your four-year degree. Am I wrong about that? Well, as my understanding of what Tennessee law has done, they've allowed, they've softened the rules to allow for people that have legitimate skills to go in and teach. For example, a medical

doctor could teach science, right? You or I, as people with law degrees, could teach, you know, a government class or something like that. Now, that's my understanding of what the law is designed to do. In this case, he was able to teach. And while I don't know his complete background yet because I don't trust his resume and we're having to vet that. Did he put CIA operative on the resume? He did not. I mean, that was apparently he readily spoke to his students about those kinds of insane things. And he obviously had this young girl believing

these things, believing that he was a millionaire, believing that that he was this special forces guy. It's just insane. But that shows you the level of control that he had over her. She had a special seat, allegedly, according to sources we have, next to his desk. Now, this wasn't because she needed discipline. This was because she was his special student, which he described in the report from the school as his best friend. He also told other students that he was a father figure to her. He used this abusive home angle to further persuade her to rely on him as a therapist. She was allowed to leave class and go to him is what we understood. Now we're trying to confirm that. But these are, you know, that's

the level. Think about this. Mother abused these children. She's out of the picture and has been out of the picture. He's still using that for his, quote, therapeutic reasons to help this child, all the while he's just preying on her. It's a sick picture. Yeah, I'm just amazed that, and again, the fact that he kidnapped her is not the school system's fault, but all the warning signs were there. The kissing, the back massages, the special seat, the mentoring, all that. And I imagine that there's more. Those were red flags that they should have caught. Another issue is you said,

and I'm coming back to this question because I got crazy for a minute when you were describing it, but you said there had been a long pattern of grooming her. And you referred to back massages. And what else were you saying that you've learned about? We've talked to students who said that they've been seen holding hands, that he would insist to sit beside her if it was in a group setting, that this was open and obvious. Of course, the back or shoulder rubs were seen on more than one

occasion. She was in his classroom alone on a routine basis. We've even had one student tell us that there's a hospital bed there for demonstrative purposes where the child was found by that child asleep on that bed one morning, walked in, there's the child and him alone, and she's asleep on that bed. I mean, that's the kind of stuff that we're hearing. Of course, the children are getting more and more afraid to speak. The teachers are afraid. And listen, I'm a fan of our teachers. They've got a very tough job, and they're in a tough position.

So I don't want the impression that I'm throwing our teachers under the bus. What we're investigating here and extremely concerned about is just an atmosphere that was created that allowed the grooming to take place and how, why he was ever in this place to begin with. Look, I have to check myself, Nancy, because, you know, I view this as a lawyer, you know, we're to be objective and try to help our clients be as objective as possible. But then I find myself at times almost getting conflicted because as a father, I'm a father of five with three daughters, I put myself in the shoes of my client. And when I then review the facts, I become outraged. And so, you know, while I love our school system and I support our teachers, I have teachers in my

family. They're wonderful people, and they're dedicated people. And nothing I'm saying is meant to besmirch them. In fact, I went to that school, Nancy. That's where I graduated. I love that school. Hey, you know what, Jason Watley? This is not about them. This is about him, Tad Cummings.

That's right. How did Cummins do it now that day that she was taken i understand in in retrospect the children were not going to school it was a teacher development day or something that's correct yeah yeah the school was out that day and so she was going to spend uh a day with a friend and and so uh so, so, and, and the father, for his part, after the kissing incident came to light, which by the way, he learned a week late, but, but after, after that came to light, he was especially vigilant in vetting where she would go, who she would be with, talking to the parents, monitoring her phone. You know, he was doing what a good parent would do.

And, of course, you know, the rest is history. I mean, he obviously didn't know that this was going to take place. And so we have lots of questions about what was going on. And, of course, there's a young lady that we had no reason to believe was in on this. She was just the young lady that dropped her off. And I've talked to her. Law enforcement's talked to her. And clearly, Elizabeth had a plan.

We think that it was clear she had a plan to meet him. What's unclear, frankly, is what her plan was that evening. Because as you know, we've heard conflicting news about what she intended in terms of coming home that evening. She told her sister, call the police if I'm not home. And she did that emphatically. And I don't have any doubt that she said those words. But obviously, she was with Tad Cummins secretly. So the question is, what did she actually intend?

Did she intend to leave and stay away? Did she intend to come back? Was she herself conflicted? Didn't know what she wanted to do? Was it Tad that convinced her to do that? Was she sort of on the fence? We don't know the answers to those questions. We pray to God that we get her back so we can find the answers to those questions. I want to pause and thank our partners making today's program possible. And one of our partners that I just love is Superbeats. When my son first heard I was involved with Superbeats, he went, Mom, those are too costy. They're $400. He thought I was talking about this really expensive set of earphones. He's all about

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You're not going to get that at your health food store. No. 800-516-0683 or go to nancysbeets.com today. In fact, I need to drink about a gallon right now because I need energy. I'd like to ask you about his wife. What's happening with his wife, Shane? They're divorced now. Jill is trying to put her life back together. And you got to remember, she was a secretary at the school. And she has children that her kids are adults now, but she's trying to put it all back together with them and her grandkids. Pat is now coming after her because he said that the police used him to coerce a confession out of him, that she manipulated him into telling him that she had sex, that he had sex with Elizabeth.

Otherwise, he said he wouldn't have admitted. Also, I can tell you what's going to happen. Part of this may be suppressed because when you talk to your spouse and you divulge a crime, the spouse isn't the one claiming the privilege. You are the accused. So when your spouse tries to take the stand, you, your lawyer stands up and says objection privilege. And you're the one that keeps the spouse from testifying. The wife of a Tennessee teacher accused of kidnapping a girl student says she knew the answer, but she asked anyway. Quote, I said, well, did you sleep with her? Said Jill Cummins in an interview, a TV interview. And this was describing a jailhouse conversation she had with her husband on the phone. It should be recorded.

So actually, she doesn't even have to. He cannot stop a recorded jailhouse conversation, even if it's with his wife, because everybody knows that that's recorded. You do it over the phone. You're up the creek without a paddle, unless they surprise me in Tennessee. Yes, I did, Tad Cummins replied. Now, she has filed for divorce,

and you're telling me that it's gone through and it's final? Yes, she filed early on in the ordeal. Within a week of Tad leaving, she had filed for a divorce. Jill Cummins recorded a public plea to her husband soon after it was obvious he had disappeared with the young Elizabeth Thomas. Listen to what she said. This is not who you are. We can help you get through this. No matter how far you've gone or what's happening right now, God's grace is sufficient for you, and he wants you to come home. Your family wants their Poppy back.

Please do the right thing and turn yourself in to the police and bring Beth home. To those of you in the media, thank you for helping to spread the word. Help us to get this message out as far as we can because we need help to find Pat and Beth and to bring them home safely. Thank you and God bless. Well, for five weeks, he leads a nationwide manhunt down a garden path. Nobody can find him. And he turns up all the way on the other side of the country. The mystery of where Tad Cummins was hiding and if Elizabeth Thomas was safe was finally resolved April 20th, 2017. After more than a month on the run, the Tennessee teacher was taken into custody, arrested. The teen recovered. They were in a cabin in a remote section of Northern California.

KDRV-TV reporter Mike Duffy tells us about how that all came about, where they were found and taken into custody. It's a remote part of Northern California. Very few people live there. The entire county has about 45,000 people live in Siskiyou County. So it's easy to see how someone could go there and escape for a period of time. Now, this is also the meeting area of multiple national forests. You have both the Shasta Trinity National Forest, you also have this popular trail that runs through the area, and people come from all over, backpackers, transients, they go to this place to get away. And it seems that in this case what we found in our coverage at KBRV is that they were looking for this commune.

It seems that he might have watched a documentary by the name of Commune that came out in 2005, which highlights this commune that people did go to. It's called Black Bear Ranch. It's in a very remote part of the state. He was ultimately found in a town called Cecilville. The entire town of Cecilville probably has about 30 or 40 people in it, so it's not a big place of its own. About 20 miles north of it in a mountainous area is Black Bear Ranch.

And Black Bear Ranch is only about 80 square miles in total. And this area has about six or seven people living in it, but it is a commune. It did start back in the 60s, and it's a place where people still can go to get away. You have to intentionally go there. We sent our own reporters to this place. It took them multiple hours to even find the commune, to find Cecilville. These roads, even at this point in the year, you know, we're in the springtime, it is April, they still had a hard time getting there because roads were still filled with snow. Active logging is going on in this area. You have to know where you want to go.

He wanted to go to Black Bear Ranch. He wanted to be a part of the community, but the Black Bear ranch people said, we're not quite sure you fit in here and told him that they had to leave. We spoke with multiple people who were there. In fact, we interviewed one man who lives on the commune. His name is Peter Laughing Wolf, and he interacted with him one-on-one. He said that Tad Cummings was kind of an aggressive personality. He said that he saw Tad and Elizabeth. He spoke with Tad, but he thought it was interesting because while Tad was aggressive, Elizabeth kind of took a more submissive role. He said Tad spoke for Elizabeth most of the time when they interacted. He arrived in Cecilville. He met up with a young man, 29-year-old, by the name of Griffin Berry.

And he said, you know, we're trying to get to Black Bear Ranch, but we have no more money left. We're out of gas. Griffin Berry politely filled up this guy's tank, gave him 40 bucks, said, you know, best of luck going to Black Bear Ranch. So then Tad and Elizabeth went to Black Bear Ranch. They spent a couple of days there. It sounds like the Black Bear Ranch people said that they wouldn't be a good fit there. So he felt rejected and came back down the mountain, still had no money, still hard on his luck, and met back up with Griffin Berry. Griffin Berry said, you know what?

If you want to work for us, we'll let you live in this little cabin in the backyard, and you can do things for us. So the first day, they did hard physical labor. Apparently, they were moving stones from the river into the yard. It sounded like they were trying to build something of a fence. And it was within that time that Griffin Berry was tipped off that, hey, this guy could be someone really bad. I don't think they realized who it was. And in fact, they said that they were surprised.

But they did realize that something wasn't right. They realized that this person didn't quite fit in to what they wanted. And it's also interesting, Nancy, this Black Bear Ranch is actively looking for people to join their commune, but they still rejected that couple that showed up. The young man who ultimately did turn him into authorities, Griffin Berry, said that he was alerted by someone in the town. They showed him a picture of this news report about this manhunt for a man and a young girl from Tennessee. And he, Griffin Barry says, oh my gosh, that guy is in my backyard. So he ultimately called authorities in Tennessee who alerted the Siskiyou County Sheriff's Department, and they were the ones who ultimately made the arrest. They went to this farm.

They didn't want to compromise Elizabeth Thomas's safety. And so they were there at about 2 a.m. in the morning. And of course, to get them separated, it would have been difficult. So what they did was they sent Griffin Barry to try to get him to come out. And Griffin Barry said he first honked his horn on his car to see if he could kind of lure him out of the house.

Didn't work. So then he called Tad Cummins to come out of the house and said he had some more work for him. That's when Tad Cummins came out of the house and authorities ultimately made the arrest. I have no doubt that the trial is not going to go forward as it was scheduled. Anytime soon, I'll tell you why, Shane.

You and I have covered enough court cases to know this. If the defense screams enough that they're not ready, the judge won't make them go forward. Because if they're made to go forward, then they can later claim on appeal, I wasn't ready, and therefore I didn't get a fair trial. Exactly. And, Nancy, you said legal team. He's been appointed a public defender. So, I mean, I think that that might, the judge will give him some leeway there also. Yeah, and there's a reason for that as well.

That public defender, just like the prosecutor, is probably assigned to that courtroom. So the judge knows very well the public defender and the prosecutor assigned to that courtroom. So the judge knows very well the public defender and the prosecutor assigned to the courtroom. And they probably worked together a long time. So when the PD, public defender, asks for more time, they're going to get it. So the latest on Tag Cummings, to my understanding, is A, he wants out of jail. jail b he's going to appeal everything that's appealable so far whether it be uh not suppressing search warrants or statements everything there is to appeal he's going to appeal it in addition to memphis reporter shane deeter joining me right now i want to thank not only you for being with us but also our partner making our program possible.

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