Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Is the wrong man charged with killing Tara Grinstead?

Episode Date: July 26, 2017

The case against Ryan Duke for the 2004 murder of Ocilla, Georgia, teacher Tara Grinstead is built largely on what his roommate Bo Dukes told investigators. Dr. Maurice Godwin, the private investigator hired by Tara's family, now believes it was Bo Dukes who did the killing. Godwin talks to Nancy Grace about the latest in Grinstead case in this episode. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph, Channel 132. On Saturday, October 22nd, 2005, Tara Grinstead went missing from her residence. As the hours turned into days, days into weeks, weeks into months, and eventually months into years, the search efforts never ceased. A few days ago, an individual came forward and reported that they had information into Tara's disappearance. Enough probable cause was discovered, so we could swear out an arrest warrant

charging Ryan Alexander Duke with the murder of Tara Grinstead. We always believed that it would be solved. We just did not know when. We go live in the search for a missing beauty queen turned history teacher who vanished after a cookout. The entire town of Osceola searching still for Tara Grinstead. But where is she?

What are police missing? What is that missing clue? Exclusive coverage right now with an expert in the search for Tara Grinstead. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Osceola is a beautiful small town. I've been there many, many times, including into Tara Grinstead's home. And I can tell you, Dr. Maurice Godwin, that the inside of her home

looked like a little jewel box. Her mother, following her disappearance, gave me a tour of her home. And it looked like it was straight out of one of my favorite magazines, Ballard Designs. Okay, Dr. Godwin, I don't expect you to know about home furnishings. But her home, it looked like she had decorated it by hand. And every room was like a little masterpiece. It was tiny, tiny, but I noticed that everything was not in place in her bedroom. Tara Grinstead, a beauty queen turned history teacher seeking her Ph.D., goes missing mysteriously. To Dr. Maurice Godwin, who specializes in forensics and psychology,

actually was hired by Tara's family to get to the bottom of her disappearance. You know, we know that one arrest has been made, an arrest of someone nobody expected, a student of hers, about two or three years before she went missing. But this case is far from over. Let's go back, Dr. Godwin, and review what we know to be true as we still search for Terry Grinstead and whoever may have been involved in her disappearance. Dr. Godwin, take me back to the day she went missing. What happened? She had some girls over because during pageantry, the pageant stuff and everything, and trying to

coach the kids and stuff and how to be in beauty pageants, the makeup, the hair. Oh, dear Lord in heaven. That is an ordeal grande. So she was mentoring these young girls, right? That's right. So during the day on October 22nd, that Saturday, she had some girls over to her home, and they were doing hair and makeup for for preparation for a beauty uh pageant that night that's there tonight in uh fitzgerald she was going to the beauty pageant also

the miss sweet potato uh pageant and so hey wait a minute wait a minute with several people there that i'm a little shocked i've got two producers in the room with me and one is actually laughing when you said miss sweet potato and And I really resent that, Jackie. I've never disagreed with you before. And I'll tell you why. That's a lot of hard work. And people pass off these contestants as dumb bunnies. That is so not true.

You go try to squeeze into a size two swimsuit and answer difficult questions about politics and geography. Good luck, Mommy. Okay? Well, she was doing it for our scholarship money. Yes, that's right. And that's really the only reason. Okay, so there. I hope you heard that, Jackie.

Okay. Just stop gesticulating at me. Okay, back to Dr. Godwin. Go ahead. I mean, that was the only reason, really, she was doing the scholarship money. And so she went to Fitzgerald and she left about 730. One of her the girls that was at the pageant named Dana, she walked with Tara out to Tara's car. And despite other reports and stuff, a few recent reports in the last six months, Tara was in good spirits.

And Tara told her that she had to go to her boss's barbecue. Right. Was it the school principal or the superintendent of schools? It was the superintendent of the school. Right. That county, yes. Did he refuse to take a DNA test? Yes.

He refused? Yeah, he refused, but they got it anyhow. How'd they get it? They would never tell me. You know what? It's so easy to get DNA. You watch somebody at a restaurant. The minute they get up, you would never tell me. But they... You know what? It's so easy to get DNA. You know, you watch somebody at a restaurant. The minute they get up, you go get their glass.

Bam! That's right. Done. You know, several cases, and I've researched this, have been solved. There's the pizza case where they got somebody to eat pizza. And then the leftover crust, they got DNA off of it. You can get DNA off a stamp. I've gotten DNA in a case I tried out of spit

that somebody spit on the ground and actually on the victim off a cigarette but it ain't brain surgery. They got DNA from him. That left him under a cloud of suspicion because he refused to give DNA. But as it turns out, he had

absolutely nothing to do with this. That's correct. I interjected. Go ahead. But he was, I mean, I had him on my radar for a long time, and he refused to talk to me in 06. But anyway, she went to his barbecue arriving about 8 o'clock p.m., and she had a good time. She was chatting and stuff. And she, during that time at the barbecue, she received a number of phone calls. Wait a minute. Did she arrive and leave alone?

Yes. Okay. She arrived at 8 o'clock p.m. Some of the phone calls they claimed were pageant girls calling her to thank her and everything. But about 10, 20, she received a phone call. And that was the detective from Perry, Georgia. He still had a crush on her? Yeah, they weren't seeing each other.

Anyway, they said their goodbyes, and she said, I love you too. That was at 1020. So she left around 11 o'clock, and it's 0.7 tenths of a mile from that house to her house. She drove back to her house, and she was never seen since. Wow. I didn't know it was such a short distance, Dr. Godwin. So this is what I know. I know that she was a neat freak,

and I know that on her vehicle, when police looked at it after she was reported missing, it was covered in mud. Yeah. And she would never have done that. And that the driver's seat had been pushed back, which all you ladies, you know what I mean. It is so irritating. You get in your car and your husband or some guy has been in it.

And I can't even, I'm only 5'1". I can't even touch the gas. so they noticed that immediately she lived alone so who else that evening had driven her car and gotten it filthy there were items in her vehicle that you would expect to be stolen if somebody had taken a joyride or tried to steal a hundred dollar bill yeah in the center console and not only that in her bedroom uh there were reportedly a string of pearls uh on the floor that had been broken and there was an injury to one of the posts on her bed yeah i found that oh you were the one that found that. Please describe that for me. Surprisingly, I was down on the floor crawling.

She had the old-timey wooden floor. Right, I remember. And they were varnished and stuff. But I was down on the floor crawling, and I saw the bed at the end on the side she slept was split right in two. And the piece was laying in the middle of the bed. Oh, my stars. I mean, under the bed, in the middle of the bed oh my stars i mean under the bed in the middle of the floor under the bed also under there was a big uh a whole box full of letters and everything from her ex-boyfriend uh marcus and it had some dust on i'm not sure why gbi didn't collect any of that you know also a lamp was askew, a lampshade was askew.

Let me just say something about that because it's more than the lampshade being askew. The actual plastic lamp socket, the bulb socket where it's screwed into, was actually broke and completely bent to the right and broken. And that plastic piece was found, I found it under the bed. You know, it's amazing that you found all this and police didn't. So let me understand another fine point here. The bedpost that was broken and the piece of it was under the bed, was it near the lamp, the broken lamp? No, no, it was at the foot was it on the same side yeah so it seems as if the struggle may have started at the

the struggle whether it started the was between the bedpost and the lamp on the same side that she slept on that's right as if she may have been getting into bed and then a struggle ensued in the bedroom. That's correct. You know, I went down there and looked all over town, searched everything I could, went through her house, went through her yard. Oh, speaking of her yard out of the front door, laying right on the edge in pine straw and the grass was a flesh color white latex glove, one. And if you go back and look at original photographs from the GBI from all that glove and stuff, if you go back and look at it, the glove just wasn't laying on top of the pine straw. Somebody had pulled back the pine straw and you know under, new pine straw on the top

is dark brown black type pine straw. Somebody had pulled that back some to almost to the ground. The glove was laying in a little valley. So it just didn't fall out and land on the pine straw. There was a little pullout area where somebody had taken their fingers and raked it back a little bit. And that glove was laying in there. And they did DNA analysis on that. and it came back to a full DNA profile, a white male. But the problem is... And they never knew who the white male was? No, over 11 years, they entered it into CODIS, they entered to the Georgia DNA data, and it never got a hit. Okay, hold on, before I get to the very, the very most recent, how did you get involved in the case?

One of the dog hounders that was working in 05, he and I had worked in the Drew Sheldon case out of South Dakota, North Dakota. And he knew me and everything. So he told Tara's sister, Anita, about me. And she contacted me in the first of February of 06. And I didn't take the case because I was busy. She contacted me about three weeks later, and I took the case. And then I went down in March of 06. So you were contacted then by Tara Grinstead's family. What were you able to uncover?

And it's amazing to me, and this is no slight against your skills, which are actually renowned, but it's amazing to me that cops didn't find the splintered bedpost piece and the broken lamp piece. I mean, to me, that's very significant. Well, there was also, she was studying to get into the PhD program,

so she had one of those thick GRE books. Right. Okay. That was laying on the floor under the edge of the bed and it had dust on it. That was still there. I'm just soaking all this in. How did they miss it all, doctor? I don't know.

The rug beside her bed, I pulled it up. Now, you know, it had been like four months, but the thing is, I pulled the rug up. And in the rubber backing, a lot of it pulled off. It was stuck to that varnished floor. So it had never been pulled up. With me is Dr. Maurice Godwin, a doctor whose specialty is forensics and psychology. He was actually employed, hired by Tara Grinstead's family to get to the truth of what happened to their beautiful girl, a pageant beauty queen and brainy as well.

A beauty queen turned history teacher seeking her PhD who went to college based on beauty pageant scholarship money. Yes, she dated several people in her local town of Osceola, Georgia, but all that ended when she disappeared after a school barbecue. What happened to Tara Grinstead? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. And of course, I'm so grateful to not only Dr. Godwin for being with us, but you being here with us on our Sirius XM 132 program. And I want to

thank our partner. Are you hiring? Do you know where to post your job to find the very best candidates? Well, with ZipRecruiter, you can post your job to 100 plus job sites with one simple click. Then their technology efficiently matches the right people to your job better than anybody else. And that is why ZipRecruiter is different. Unlike other job sites, ZipRecruiter does not depend on candidates finding you. It finds them. As a matter of fact, over 80% of jobs posted on ZipRecruiter get a qualified candidate in just 24 hours. No juggling emails or calls to your office. You simply screen, rate, and manage candidates all in one place with ZipRecruiter's easy-to-use dashboard. Find out today why ZipRecruiter has been used by businesses of all sizes to find the most

qualified job candidates with immediate results. And right now, my listeners can post jobs on ZipRecruiter for free. F-R-E-E. That's right, free. Go to ZipRecruiter.com slash Nancy Grace. That's ZipRecruiter.com slash Nancy Grace. One more time, to try it for free, go to ZipRecruiter.com slash Nancy Grace. ZipRecruiter.com. Thank you. I want to get back to Dr. Maurice Godwin. Dr. Godwin, so years pass, and I think everybody really looked at Marcus the boyfriend. They had a very volatile relationship. He was a cop. He had a certain degree of power in town.

You know, cops certainly know where to hide a body, and there's no shortage. You know, within an hour, two hours of Osceola, there is thousands of acres of swampland, waterways, you name it. Everyone kind of suspected him because that's just the way of the world. Statistics show when a woman is murdered or goes missing, it's very likely her partner, her ex, husband, boyfriend husband boyfriend her partner and so he naturally came under suspicion boy was everybody wrong then what happened dr godwin well there was also um the person the detective she was seeing too so he was a he was a suspect right the guy from perry georgia and he was the last one that we know talked to her on the phone that night. That's right. And when she got back home that night, she just disappeared. And the glove was found out there.

And the GBI, I mean, what happened was is she didn't show up Monday morning at work. And so the elderly couple next door, he was a councilman. So he had the chief's cell phone number in his cell phone. So he called the chief of Osceola and he came over there and Joe had a key to the house. So he went in and didn't see anything. And he came back out and Joe saw the glove laying on the pine straw. Like the chief said back then, you're trying to find a needle in a haystack, we don't even know where the haystack is.

Dr. Maurice Godwin finally led to a very recent arrest after years passing. I imagine her parents had just about given up, because when I met with her mom, her mom looked so burdened and so, I mean, she's a lovely lady. I guess that's where Tara got her good looks. But she just, her demeanor was just so, like she was carrying the weight of the world on her shoulders.

Oh, I think it played a role in her health going down. Oh, yeah, definitely. You know, people say that you can die of a broken heart, and I don't think that's altogether wrong. Now, medical doctors will disagree with you,

but frankly, what do they know? Back to the break in the case. I did not see this coming. I did not. Of course, I assume that you should look at her current students, you know. I did not. Of course, I assume that you should look at her current students. You know, I just assume. Well, I can tell you what, myself in 2015, I was on a national show

on this and Anita was on there too. And I made a comment about the GBI said, after 10 years, you're going to have to change your strategy. You're going to have to do something. You know, until they arrested Ryan and had that one press conference, there was never any press conference about Tara at all in 11 years. That's amazing to me. Yeah, I know. I know. And you never, I said, you need to change your strategy. So when I got back home.

Hold on just a moment, Dr. Dr. Murray Skydwin with me. Listen to that announcement. On Saturday, when with me, listen to that announcement. On Saturday, October 22nd in 2005, Tara Grinstead went missing from her residence. The Ocilla Police Department responded

to her residence. Immediately they suspected foul play. Additional law enforcement resources were requested. The Irwin County Sheriff's Office and the GBI came in and began a search at Tara's house. The troubling thing when you're working in investigation into a missing persons case is that there's generally very little evidence. Tara's home was searched extensively for several days,

which produced little physical evidence. As with all missing person cases, the investigation started focusing on Tara's close friends and associates. Tara was very well known in this community and well liked in her community, so she had many contacts and friends in various parts of the community. As the hours turned into days, days into weeks, weeks into months, and eventually months into years, the search efforts never ceased. Through these 11-plus years, the GBI and other law enforcement officers have received hundreds and hundreds of tips. The GBI handles unsolved cases in the same manner we handle our active investigations. All open files are reviewed every couple of months.

That way we do not have cold cases. our active investigations, all open files are reviewed every couple of months. That way we do not have cold cases. Each and every tip that came in was vetted and checked against what we had already done in this investigation. Interviews were conducted. Searches were executed. Multiple DNA samples were collected. Each lead was thoroughly exhausted. Unfortunately, all of these leads ended with a dead end until the last couple of days. A few days ago, an individual came forward and reported that they had

information in a terrorist disappearance. This information made it to my office and our case agent Jason Shadel was sent out to conduct an interview. This interview generated several more interviews, which was followed up by the rest of our office here. Through these interviews, enough probable cause was discovered so we could swear out an arrest warrant charging Ryan Alexander Duke with the murder of Tara Grinstead. Duke was taken into custody yesterday afternoon and a warrant was issued this morning. So that's the announcement you're talking about, Dr. Godwin.

That's correct. But who saw this coming? I mean, this guy never caused a problem at school. They did not have a relationship. I mean, I got into it the other day at CrimeCon when it was suggested that she had some kind of illicit sex relationship with this guy, one of her students. No, I don't believe that for a minute. And I do believe sex maybe was the motive behind all this, but it was against her will. I think you're right about that. Because if they wanted to steal something, I mean, they could have done it. And I think you're right about that. Because if they wanted to steal something, I mean, they could have done it. And I don't, I think you're right about that. And I

really am angry about suggestions that she was in the wrong place. That she went, quote, went somewhere she shouldn't have. That really made me mad.

And Dr. Godwin, you should have seen the... I was there. That's right. That's right. Thank you. The uproar. The uproar. I should have had you up there on that panel.

The uproar that erupted at CrimeCon when it was suggested that she had a relationship. To me, it was being suggested that she had some kind. To me, it was being suggested that he had some kind of sex relationship with this boy. I think what it was, it wasn't really saying that. I think it was saying because she was an emotional wreck over Marcus.

And that made her vulnerable. And I don't think there was anything. I think maybe he was saying, I think maybe she would go, she would have taken a risk and gone somewhere, not to have sex, but gone somewhere that put herself at risk. Wait a minute. She was just on the phone with the current boyfriend from Perry. Now, this whole thing with the ex ex Marcus, the volatile relationship, it was

on again, off again. Then, and he was a cop. Then enter the detective in Perry, a nearby town. She was currently seeing him. I mean, nothing ever. And I said, I taught while I was waiting to get into law school. Nothing would make me interested in a 13-year-old boy except to tell him to sit down and shut up. No, no, uh-uh. This woman, Tara Grant said, I'm just telling you, a beauty queen getting her PhD, uh-uh.

She was not interested in some history student she had three years before. N-O. I think everything was against her will. You notice one thing about the charges and stuff. If they had any evidence that she was taken

while she was alive from the house, they would have charged kidnapping. And there's no kidnapping charges. Well, I don't know. I disagree. Well, let me rephrase. I don't know that I disagree with what you said, but I think that they know they cannot prove a kidnapping.

I do not think that Tara Grinstead, I mean, you take in the broken lamp, the broken bedpost, the pearls, the car all covered in mud, and the seat kicked back. She did not go anywhere willingly but that in itself in their minds may not be enough to prove kidnapping so just because they don't indict him for kidnapping doesn't mean it ain't so that's true i want to get back to how did this guy go under the radar this student she had three or four years before she goes missing. Who is this guy? Where did he come from? And how did he get busted? Well, let me just say this. When I was talking about changing strategies,

I got back in 2015 and I said, I was telling the GBI that, and so I need to change my own strategy after 10 years. And so that's when I saw the post in January 06 on Web Sleuths from Pain. And I said, well, maybe here's my strategy after all this long time. Maybe I can use the media like a podcast or something that can help this case. So I agreed to work with him and we started the podcast and stuff. And I think it played a role in fleshing out this Bo Dukes and Ryan Duke. And so that was my strategy, the change in strategy and stuff. And I believe if the podcast had never been done, I don't believe there would have ever been an arrest for a long time. I think you may be right about that, Dr. Maurice Godwin. So what can you tell me about the man arrested in terrorist

murder? Well, Ryan, he went into the military, but after boot camp and stuff, he was released for some reason. What is his full name? Ryan Alexander Duke. Okay, so I don't really refer to killers by their, excuse me, alleged killers by their first names. I'm not really on a first name basis with him or OJ or Jody or Top Mom. So, all right, I thought maybe I lost my mind when you said Ryan. His name is Ryan Alexander Duke. Okay, back to him. Who is this guy? Well, he was a former student. He went in the military. For some reason, after boot camp, he got out. Oh, so he never really went. He just went to boot camp? Basically, yeah. Then he was employed, unemployed,

just hanging around a cellar. I think he had a drinking problem. I'm not sure about a heavy drug problem, but he had a drinking problem. He was living in October of 2005 with Bo Dukes in Fitzgerald. He comes from more of an unstable background and everything. Of course, I'm not quite sure, fully aware of Bo's background, but Ryan did not come from any privilege or any kind of money or anything like that. Well, that's pretty much all of us, Dr. Godwin. So what do you think happened? And how did he get busted? I understand someone walked into the police department, the local police department, and gave a tip. Yes. My understanding is that Bo was dating a girl.

And they had been dating over a year at this time. So I'm not quite sure if she knew before February of 2017. Anyway, she found out and she mentioned it to her mom. And it's my understanding her mom went to law enforcement. So he, the roommate, says something to his girlfriend about Ryan Alexander Duke. No, about the disappearance and what happened to Tara. Oh, he didn't say he did it? I'm not quite sure if he told her or not, but he said he knew about it.

Anyway, she took it and went to her mother or mentioned it in passing to her mother, and her mother went to law enforcement, and then that's when everything broke. They approached him. They had to get evidence on it. So they went to him, and he just threw Ryan under the bus. So the mother of the girlfriend goes to cops. Cops go to Ryan Alexander Duke. And then what happens?

We don't know because of gag order. We don't know if the DNA on the glove matches Ryan or anyone. So we don't know that. But they must have had a probable cause based on Bo's testimony, I mean, Bo's interview. And then I think maybe they got some sort of small confession from Ryan, and then they made the arrest of Ryan. Why were they digging in a pecan orchard?

Well, because that's owned by Bo's uncle and stuff. And supposedly after the killing or somehow she got out, either she was carried out there or somehow she was already out there. But that's where they... I mean, I don't think that her bedroom would be so disheveled if she... I don't either. She went home, okay? Yeah, she went home. To me, in my opinion, I think she was attacked in the bedroom

and they got her from there or killed her there and carried her body back to Fitzgerald and went to the pecan orchard and she stayed supposedly there for like a day or whatever. And then they burned her up and buried her. Okay, slow down. Tell me that again.

What's your scenario? They went after she was killed. She was carried back to Fitzgerald. She was taken over to the pecan orchard and she was burned up. And then she was buried. What are you basing on the burning up? Well, this is both what he has told people and that's what's out there. Yes. And plus, they've only they only found small fragments of bones and stuff like that.

But she was definitely burned. But why do you say that? How do you know Tara Grinstead was burned? Well, based on what Bo and Emma said. Okay. Now, let me ask you this. Do you believe Bo was with Ryan Alexander Duke when all this occurred? I think Bo's the killer.

And I think that she was sexually assaulted, and what better way to get rid of forensic evidence than burning the body? Well, then what role does Ryan Alexander Duke play in it? I think he's very suggestible. And I think that he don't even I don't think that he really even knows. But um, but I think Ryan is a follower. Bo is a leader. And I just think they work. Bo. Well, isn't it true that Bo claims in text messages that Ryan Alexander Duke told him he killed Tara in her own bed? That's right, with one hit. But, I mean, supposedly Bo said that that Saturday night there was some people at his

house in Fitzgerald and they all was drinking and they passed out, except Ryan. And Ryan took his truck to a cellar and killed her and brought her back. And then suddenly, I guess Bo woke up or something, but he told him that he had what he'd done and he had her in the truck. And so, but Bo claims that he didn't see her until Wednesday. He didn't see the body. He went out there and she was bloated up and stuff. I don't believe that at all.

I think he, I mean, I don't think Ryan picked out Bo's family land to put her on his own will. I think that Bo was behind, he was behind where that body was dumped at. And you believe that Bo sexually assaulted her? I believe, oh yeah, I believe, absolutely. Now, in text exchanges that have now been revealed, Bo has actually described watching Tara Grinstead's body burning. Is that true? That's correct. Now he, Bo, claims it was two full days after the killings

that Duke, his roommate, showed him Tara's naked body in the pecan orchard and that it was his idea to burn the body. That does not ring true to me. If somebody came and said to me, I've got Alan Duke lurking somewhere on this program. I am here. Alan, if you were to come tell me, hey, I've got a naked body out my truck bed. You think I'd wait two days to get a look at it? Uh-uh.

N-O. That's just downright not true right there. I agree with you, Dr. God. body out my truck bed you think i'd wait two days to get a look at it uh-uh n-o i that that that's just downright not true right there i agree with you dr godwin i agree yeah there's there's a lot that that dr godwin has been able to uncover along with uh the others working on this what sticks out to you the thing that sticks out to me and it's a really concern and the reason that that i think dr godwin might think that beau is implicated more than he's admitting to, is this whole thing about the statute of limitations. Could you go into that with us, Dr. Godwin? See, supposedly they got a call probably a week or two or something afterwards. She went missing, they got a call to Irwin County Sheriff's Department, and supposedly

two deputies went to the county line, Ben Hill County line, which is where Fitzgerald was at, and supposedly they went out there and drove around and searched. Of course, it's like 300 acres. They didn't find anything, so they just left. Around the pecan orchard. But there's no really record of that search. But supposedly, the whole thing for this is to suggest that law enforcement somehow knew about somebody out there at a bonfire and stuff, confessed that they killed Tara. We're getting way out in the weeds here.

You asked about a statute of limitations problem. Well, if they knew about it then. There is no statute in a murder case, people. Not murder, but they. It's about when she was found. If law enforcement knew about it, does the statute of limitations start then? Or both charges. Or on both charges, yes. I'm sorry. I can't make sense of what the two of limitations start then. Or both charges. Or on both charges, yes.

I'm trying to say, I'm sorry, I can't make sense of what the two of you are saying. You are saying, first of all, first of all, there is no statute of limitations on murder. Exactly, exactly. And statute of limitations simply means this. Say I run into Walmart and I steal a set of towels, okay, there's a statute of limitations during which I can be prosecuted on a theft by taking. It's probably five years. After five years, if they don't get me, those towels are mine and I'm home free.

That's a statute of limitations. But I think the question is, when does that start? If law enforcement didn't know anything about that theft when does that statute of limitations start this okay first of all in murder but this is about both charges you see i understand you but are you telling me the two of you actually telling me, you don't think Bo had anything to do with her murder? But they don't have the evidence on him, apparently. We don't know because of the gag work. I put that right to a jury and let a jury decide. Put those two in a pot to stew together.

He's only charged in Ben Hill. He's not charged in Irwin County. Not for now, he's not. With hiding the body, right? Disposing the body. Yeah, what, concealing evidence and hiding the body right disposing the body yeah what cacilin evidence and hiding the body and all that he's not right now but that can be amended so anyway the statute in hiding the body would likely start at the time of the murder now on hiding a body. He did the crime. Hiding a body,

of course, is not murder. But if you're charged with accessory to murder... Well, they don't have that in Georgia. You know what? You're right. So he'd have to be charged with co-defendant. He'd have to be charged as a co-defendant in murder. And I think that's what they're

working on right now. I think that's what's going on behind the scenes. But frankly, I don't know what they're doing. Well, the plea deal, or he apparently had, Bo Dukes had some arrangement with the district attorney, the prosecutors, to be a state witness. But is that still holding Dr. Godwin? I tell you, I don't think so,

because he was arraigned not too long ago. So, Dr. Godwin, you feel firmly that they have found enough of her body to prove a murder charge. You know, because it's often said if you don't have a body, you can't prove a case. That's entirely not true. But you believe they have found enough bone fragments to prove what happened to Tara I believe that they are found enough remains to prove that it is Tara to prove that it is Tara and the fact that her bones are fragmented shows a lot where that comes from decomposition over the 12 years and the burning you won't be no autopsy because there's nothing autopsy.

The manner of death, you have to base it on somebody's word, not manner of death. I mean, the mechanism of death, like smothering or strangulation, you have to just base it on Bo's word or I don't know if Ryan said that or not in a confession. You just going to have to base it on that. Well, I'd hate to base anything on what these two may say. What is Tara's family reaction to this? Well, they're thrilled about the arrest, and they want the monsters to go to prison. And what do people in Osceola think of this? Do they think they've got the right guy?

Yes, I think the people in Osceola are glad there was arrest, and I think they'd be glad when this whole thing is over with. Let me ask you this. Do you think this should be a death penalty case? Because I do. I'm glad to hear that. I'm really glad to hear that. Now, of course, they'd have to move the case out of Osceola.

That's just a given. The defense is going to ask for a change of venue. But when do you believe this will go to trial? A year. Mm-hmm? A year. Mm-hmm. A year. And do you think Bo Dukes, the roommate, is ultimately going to give states evidence against Ryan Alexander Duke? Yeah, he's got a problem with defense.

He's got a problem because, I mean, the defense attorney, he's got all the files now, which are 30 feet. They were 30 feet long. The GBI files in his case was 30 feet long before their arrest. So he's got all those files now. He's going to try to get one person a reasonable doubt on that jury that Ryan did this himself and try to implicate both. So with all his posting, all his his screenshots he can be easily impeached let me ask you dr godwin what would have made ryan alexander duke do such a thing if you don't believe they had a sex relationship which i do not why would he leave a party and go kill

tara grinstead or try to assault her and then kill her. I think it's more like both of them were riding around. And possibly saw her coming home. Yeah, that's right. Now, there might be another motive behind that, but I don't know it. So your scenario is that they're out riding around. They see her or they go by her house. I mean, she would have recognized Ryan Alexander Duke if he came to the door.

And that's all it took. Yeah. And, you know, there's been mentioned that he used a plastic card or something like that to jiggle around and get in into the front door. I don't believe that. Why don't you believe that? Because even I can break into a door with my driver's license. Yeah, but I mean, first of all, her front porch light was on and she had some Halloween decorations up.

I mean, and, you know, him drinking and stuff. He's standing there with a car trying to, and she had a piece of wood in the molding, the brick molding of the door frame and stuff all the way down on the left side that prevents you. So he would have to sit there and fiddle with this thing late at night and stuff. And I don't believe that. He got in some other way or he used a ruse and she opened the door. And you think the struggle went down in her bedroom? I do.

You believe? Yeah, it does too because they have it in their. Yeah, they do. It's in the indictment. Yeah. And you believe that he killed her because they have it in their yeah they do it's in the indictment yeah and you believe that he killed her right there in the bed that's right he had put her body in his truck took her body to a pecan orchard buried it burned it and buried it at some point they were in her car though at some point some point. At some point, possible. But that's, you know, I don't know.

You know, there's a lot of nuances in this case. But to me, in my opinion, Bo is the reason why that the body was in the pecan orchard that shows that location. Ryan did not go out there on his own and dump body out there and then later come back and tell Bo later on, a couple of days later, hey, you know, I just put this over your uncle's land. I don't believe that at all. How do you think that this is going to play out, Dr. Godwin? Well, I hope it goes to trial because, you know, entering a plea and reading that, you know, that short narrative, you know, and the judge reading it and stuff and Ryan agreeing to it and signing off on it and stuff. Well, I think it would leave leave a lot of people hanging.

And so I think people in the family are owed case information. And I think that's having a trial is the only way to do that. And so I think hopefully that this goes to trial, and I think Ryan will end up getting life without parole. And I hope that Bo gets a lot more years than a one or two. Well, why not the death penalty? Well, I don't know if this is a death penalty case. We believe it.

But I don't know if they've charged him with that. Yeah, I don't believe they've included any aggravating circumstances. Yeah, they probably took it off the table as a negotiating thing. Well, they haven't negotiated with Ryan Alexander Duke, I don't think. Yeah, I don't know about that. But they have with Bo Duke. Yeah, because basically that's the only thing they've got. Except, you know, I don't know what the DNA on the glove is. And we don't have a body to get sperm or touch DNA.

With no soft tissue left, you couldn't get touch DNA anyway. Yeah, and they left the genes in the bedroom. See, where you have that belt, and I mean, you can do touch DNA and stuff from the genes of where you have to grab areas that's right and stuff in and so what that stuff was left in the clothing was left in the bedroom but the cops got it no that's what no the clothing was the jeans were left in the bedroom as far as I know oh dear

Lord in heaven where are the jeans now I think a lot of the stuff went in storage and everything. You know, Dr. Godwin, I really hate to hear that. And I don't want to trash the cops because they're doing the best they can. Yeah, they are. But the GBI, the GBI should have a different approach during the first five years would have made a difference. And at least they should have had some type of conference, call a conference and update every five years or every three years or something like that. And they never did that. I tell you what happened. What? They had the DNA, and DNA, full DNA and stuff like that, makes a lot of investigators lazy. So what they do, they don't really have anything else, so they just wait for a hit.

With me is a renowned forensic psychologist who was hired by Tara Grinstead's family to try to find the truth. Dr. Maurice Godwin with us as we wait for this case to go to trial and the murder of a beautiful young woman,

a beauty queen turned PhD candidate, Tara Grinstead. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.