Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Jailhouse Lovers Hole up in Hotel With Take Out, Sex Toys

Episode Date: May 11, 2022

Ex-jailer Vicky White commits suicide as cops close in on her and fellow fugitive Casey White.  Authorities tracked down the Alabama outlaws to a motel in Evansville, Indiana. The pair attempted to flee when they realized police had found them, which led to a chase.   A newly released  911 call appears to contain the last words of Vicky White. As sirens screech in the background,  a woman’s voice says, "Airbags are going off! Let’s get out and run! We never should have left the hotel."     Dashcam video also reveals that when the vehicle rolled over, police could see that Vicky was holding a gun to her head. “She still has the gun in her hands,” one officer says in the video. “Finger’s on the trigger.”   Vicky White was hospitalized and died hours later. Casey White was extradited back to Alabama, where he has been charged with first-degree escape. He is already facing capital murder charges in connection with the death of Connie Ridgeway in 2015. Joining Nancy Grace Today: Sheriff Rick Singleton - Lauderdale County Sheriff's Office, Facebook: "Lauderdale County Sheriff's Office"   James Shelnutt - 27 years Atlanta Metro Area Major Case Detective, Former S.W.A.T. officer, Attorney, The Shelnutt Law Firm, P.C., www.ShelnuttLawFirm.com, Twitter: @ShelnuttLawFirm  Caryn Stark - NYC Psychologist, www.carynstark.com, Twitter: @carynpsych, Facebook: "Caryn Stark"   Lenny DePaul - Former Chief Inspector/Commander U. S. Marshal Service Fugitive Task Force, U.S. Secret Service, U.S. Navy, Instagram/Twitter: @LennyDePaul Dr. Tim Gallagher - Medical Examiner State of Florida www.pathcaremed.com, Lecturer: University of Florida Medical School Forensic Medicine, Founder/Host: International Forensic Medicine Death Investigation Conference   Brittany Harry - Reporter/Anchor, WAAY 31 (Huntsville, AL), WAAYTV.com, Twitter: @BrittanyHarryTV, Facebook: "Brittany Harry News"   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The search for a female jailer and her jailhouse lover has come to a crazy, careening, screeching halt. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. First of all, listen to what we have on record as the last transmissions of hearing Vicki White on radio. You are hearing the last utterances of Vicki White on the run with her jailhouse lover,

six foot nine at the least. What happened after that is very well documented. Take a listen to Hour Cut 36, our friends at WEVV, Fox 44. We are right over here, just off of Highway 41 in Burton. You can kind of see the scene is very chaotic right now. We are still learning details, but we can confirm that both Casey and Vicki, one is in custody and one is in the hospital. The female is actually in the hospital. We know that they are driving down here. Police pursuit about 70 miles per hour. You can see that car flipped over in the ditch right now. We have multiple agencies on scene, but apparently this was going for a while. Now, we do not know the condition of her, but we do know that he is in custody. Let's get out and run. The chilling 911 audio reveals on the run prison guard Vicki White's last words to her escapee lover, Casey White.

Joining me, an all star panel to make sense of what we know right now. James Shelna, 27 years Metro major case at Shelnut Law Firm. Karen Stark, New York psychologist, joining us. KarenStark.com. Lenny DePaul, former chief inspector, commander U.S. Marshal, Fugitive Task Force. Dr. Tim Gallagher, medical examiner, state of Florida, and host of the International Forensic Medicine Death Investigation Conference. Brittany Harry joining us, reporter anchor WAAY31, that's Huntsville, and special guest

joining us, Sheriff Rick Singleton, the Lauderdale County elected sheriff. Sheriff, thank you for being with us. I know that you're going through a lot right now from losing a trusted jailhouse employee for many, many years, somebody that you respected, a co-worker, a friend, the betrayal of that, and now her death. It's been an emotional rollercoaster the last couple of weeks. I just don't really know how to explain it. When we first got word that they had left, our initial feeling was that he had somehow

overpowered her and taken her against her will. It wasn't too many hours into the investigation when we realized that she had played a part in it. We were still grasping at straws, hoping that maybe someone from outside on his behalf had threatened her, threatened her family, coerced her into helping him escape. But within a matter of a few days, it became obvious that she was very much involved in this plan. Very much involved in the plan, if not even the mastermind of the plan. Guys, take a listen to our cut 40, our friends at WVTM 13. Nikki White has died tonight. Investigators say she shot herself following a car chase with

law enforcement. It all came to an end today in Evansville, Indiana. That's about a 220 mile journey from Lauderdale County. This is the press conference we've been talking about all week that we wanted to call. After days of searching across the country, Casey White and Vicki White are in custody. The duo was hunted down in Indiana. U.S. Marshals received a tip about a car, this Cadillac, believed to be driven by Casey and Vicki in Evansville. That led to a chase. The Marshall's task force officers intercepted them, actually collided with them to try to end the pursuit after the crash according to law enforcement vicky shot herself and later died in the hospital casey peacefully surrendered we got a dangerous man off the street today

he is never going to see the light of day again did she shoot? That remains to be seen and also take a listen now to our cut 38 WEVV Fox. We're standing right next to the ditch where this all went down and you can actually still see a part of that car left behind perhaps a headlight or maybe a taillight still left right there and we're learning it really didn't take long for the car to end up flipped on its side in the ditch the pursuit really only lasting about two blocks from st george road to birch drive here but what's most surprising to law enforcement is the fact the fugitives were still in the evansville area nearly a week after they were caught on camera at a local car wash. It took a force. It took a force to do this. And I knew it would be an end in a shootout. I knew it would. The community in shock and disbelief, standing mere feet away

from where an 11-day nationwide manhunt came to an end. Following a brief police pursuit around 4.30 Monday, Alabama convict Casey White and corrections officer Vicki White crashing in a ditch off US-41 in Evansville. Trade out to Brittany Harry joining us from WAAY-31. You can find her on Facebook, Brittany Harry News. Brittany, thank you for being with us. Explain how the whole thing unfolded. And you know, everybody keeps saying, we knew how it was going to end.

We knew how it was going to end. I felt all along that there was a very high percentage, if I was a betting person, that somehow Vicki White would end up dead. And you hear her last words, let's get out and run. And you hear her also saying, I knew we shouldn't have left the hotel. We should never have left the hotel. Tell me how the whole capture played out. Well, I'm still actually in Evansville, Indiana right now doing day two coverage here.

And I just do want to mention that I am just one person at my station that has been covering the story. It's definitely been a team effort. But here in Evansville, I have been in contact with the sheriff here and police and local authorities. And what we know, according to the sheriff, as he mentioned in a press conference yesterday, was Vicki and Casey were seen leaving that Motel 41 along Highway 41 here in Evansville, Indiana. And not long after they left the parking lot, we know that a pursuit ensued and not long after that ended with a crash. But Sheriff Dave Wedding here in Vandenberg County, Indiana, said yesterday that U.S. Marshals actually rammed the vehicle, that Cadillac that they were in, into a ditch. And that's really how that crash happened, this might have had a different ending because he says that Casey told authorities that he planned to have a shootout with law enforcement.

So Sheriff Wedding obviously said that he's very, very grateful that that is not what happened here. But I know Sheriff Singleton is on the line and I do want to pass my condolences on to him. I know this is a tough time for him. We heard him say that at the beginning of the call. And really, I mean, Nancy, I know that you were saying that some people were suspecting that it might end this way, but definitely still a sad situation. I think people may have expected it, but they were hoping for a different outcome. Sheriff Rick Singleton joining us, the elected Laredale County Sheriff. Sheriff, how did they get the caddy?

My understanding is they purchased it. We found the first vehicle that we were able to identify, the Ford Edge, abandoned in Tennessee actually a week after they left. And it was actually abandoned the day they left. We know that they purchased a black pickup truck in that area. That's the pickup truck that was found at the car wash up in Indiana. The local police ran that vehicle. It didn't come back stolen because it wasn't stolen. They purchased it.

They abandoned it and apparently got the Cadillac. I'm assuming they probably purchased it, too. They had the cash with them. Were they down to about $29,000? That's my understanding. That was the approximate amount that was recovered. So they ran through $29,000? That's my understanding. That was the approximate amount that was recovered. So they ran through $70,000. Is that right, Sheriff? You know, she had already purchased one vehicle here.

She had made several other purchases, clothes for him, you know, that sort of thing. So they had a considerable sum of money. It's amazing to me that they managed to pull off so many car purchases, staying in a hotel. They had to eat. How were they getting that? Were they going out? Were they ordering in? How did they register into the hotel without driver's licenses or without anyone identifying them?

We understand they may have paid a guy to register at the hotel, but the buying of the multiple cars, the vehicles, the hotel, the food, the car wash. Take a listen to our Cut 37, our friends at WAAY. Just today, investigators released this photo of a 2006 Ford F-150 pickup truck in Evansville that authorities say the couple abandoned at a car wash around May 3rd. It wasn't until Sunday that authorities got the tip. Turns out the two were still in the area. We got a dangerous man off the street today. He is never going to see the light of day again. For days, law enforcement had urged the public to be on the lookout, hoping Casey

White's 6 foot 9, 340pound size would make him easy to spot. Sheriff Singleton is anxious to have him back in custody in North Alabama to face charges of capital murder from the 2015 stabbing of Connie Ridgeway. We've already made arrangements with the Department of Corrections. He will be brought here for arraignment. If it's 2 o'clock in the morning, it doesn't matter. The judge has agreed to come out. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

Lenny DePaul joining us, former U.S. Marshal Service Fugitive Task Force. Lenny, I'm very surprised they're still in the same area. And how did they pull off buying so many vehicles, staying in hotels, getting food? How'd they do it? Well, Nancy is a crazy and intense manhunt, obviously. And first of all, my condolences as well to Sheriff Singleton and his department. I can only imagine what they're going through. But, yeah, I mean, staying on the run, this guy certainly wasn't going to hide in plain sight at 7'3", 300 pounds.

But the U.S. Marshals Service, the Great Lakes, and also the Gulf Coast Regional Fugitive Task Forces, and, of course, the Sheriff's Department, they did an outstanding job, Nancy. And here's what they did. They put, you know, they utilized the intel that they were gathering. They put everything out. Social media was fired up. You guys did a great job plastering their photos. The public remained vigilant, and sure enough, the fellow working in the car wash did his homework, ran some video, and identified this guy. So they were out there. They had a plan. Apparently, there was a fly in the ointment with vehicles possibly breaking

down and whatnot, but it was only a matter of time. And thankfully, as the sheriff said, I mean, when they pitted that car and the weapons that were found in that vehicle and the ammunition, it could have been a lot, a hell of a lot worse than what it was. How did they pull it off for this long, even staying fairly close to home. Take a listen to Hour Cut 49 from the Vandenberg County Sheriff's Office. We got a photo. They had about $29,000 left over. Here's a picture of the money that was left in the vehicle that we counted last night after we inventoried the vehicle.

How did they get the F-150 and the Cadillac? They purchased the F-150 and drove it here. And where they got the Cadillac, I'm not sure. Do you have any idea what they were doing here for a little bit? Well, I think he said that he was just trying to find a place to hide out, lay low. And they thought they'd driven long enough that they wanted to stop for a while, get their bearings straight, and then figure out their next place to travel. We don't believe they have any relatives, friends, or acquaintances in Evansville, Vanver County. Well, I can tell you what they wanted to do, Brittany Harry.

They wanted to hole up in that hotel and use all those sex toys that she bought before they took off and went on the run. Now, how did they manage to get into the hotel? I mean, when I write a check at the grocery store, I have to show a driver's license, credit cards, you name it. Okay. So how did these two on the run, their faces plastered on every TV screen in the country, how in the world did they manage to hole up in that hotel and nobody noticed? How did they sign in? Yeah, the short answer is with a homeless man. Sheriff Dave Wedding said yesterday he told me that they had an alias and that I guess that they paid a homeless man

to essentially help them get this 14 day stay at this hotel. And we've done and we've seen interviews that have been all over with the owner of the hotel. And he apparently had no idea that the two were wanted and neither did the homeless guy. So I also know that that homeless man, he won't be facing any charges here in Indiana or anything like that. You know, Sheriff, they had about $30,000 left. And I'm guessing the way they bought the cars. First, they bought the getaway car, the orange car. Then they got a an F-150 black truck. Then they ended up in a Cadillac. Again, when you don't know the horse,

look at the track record. She got the first car in cash with a fake id using an alias i bet that's what she did the other times what do you know sheriff well uh you remember the the car she bought first the ford edge was abandoned the day they escaped uh they also bought the truck you know that same day so no information had been put out at that time about their descriptions uh you know at least it hadn't gotten the kind of attention that uh that you know i got in the following uh there was a an app put out uh to the national crime information systems uh but to law enforcement but as far as the general public if most of that information was just localized at that time.

So, you know, whoever they bought the truck from probably would have had no idea they were wanted. So are you saying they bought the escape car, the orange escape car and the truck on the same day? No, they left here in the orange car. It broke down or whatever happened to it. It was abandoned in Bethesda. That's where they bought the truck. Same day. Gotcha. Yeah, the That's where they bought the truck. Same day. Gotcha. Yeah, the same day that they left.

Right. And again, even though their faces weren't out there yet, she probably used a fake name. And, Ellis, do you know what name she bought the orange getaway car under? It was a Maxwell name, Marie Maxwell. Maxwell. Bet you she did the same thing because, you know, James Shelnut, 27 years Metro major case and now a, James Shelnut, 27 years, Metro major case,

and now a lawyer at Shelnut Law Firm. She's smart. She's really smart. I don't know how I think he's got a low wattage. But even though she may be smart and had planned this whole thing out, I guarantee you she did the same thing over and over. You know, she devised the very best plan and did it over and over. Were you surprised that she was able to get her mitts on three separate cars while on the run?

Well, you know, I thought about that. And that's something that caught my attention as it did yours. But, you know, when you think about you buy a used car, it's pretty straightforward. What you're doing is you're going up and looking at these cars. It could be off Craigslist. It could be off Marketplace. You go up and tell people your name. They write you a bill of sale, and you hand them cash, and very few questions are asked.

And I don't know if she bought these from a dealership or not, but if she had a fake ID, they likely would not have ran that ID. And once cash hit the table, they could have easily got it. Here's the other thing, is that when they buy those used cars, those tags are not immediately transferred. So for days, if not a week or two, they could have ridden around in that vehicle and it showed the previous owner's name not stolen and looked like a clean vehicle if law enforcement ran that tag. She was smart. She didn't use a stolen vehicle and she had the money to do that because a stolen vehicle would immediately go up. All points bulletin APB on that thinking these two had done it. But not only did they get the three separate getaway cars, they blew it when they

went to a car wash. Take a listen to Hour Cut 41 WVTM 13. On May 3rd, a stolen Ford F-150 was discovered at a car wash in Evansville. Surveillance footage from the car wash appears to show Casey White the first sighting of him in the city, meaning they were there for possibly a week. Well, they're criminals. Sometimes they do things that are unexplainable, but in this case, I'm glad they did. Casey will be extradited back to Alabama to face arraignment. Sheriff Singleton says he will do everything in his power to make sure he can never escape again. To you, Sheriff Rick Singleton, the Lauderdale County elected sheriff. Sheriff, let me understand this.

So they get three getaway cars, and then while they're on the run, they haven't been caught, they take one to a car wash? Yeah, you know, to back up just a little bit, the truck, I understand, was in an individual's yard that was for sale. They bought it off of an individual. Also, the first major break

we got in the case really related to that truck because when we got the information on the truck and the marshals ran it on NCIC to see if there had been any activity, that's when they found out that an officer there in Evansville had checked that truck out a few days before. So that's what led us to Evansville to start with. The truck. So the truck was a key part of being able to find me and locate them where they

were at uh as far as them staying in a motel you know they had paid that the bill ahead of time for two weeks and i and i'm going to be my personal opinion is that the the national media attention that this got uh i think drove them underground i think that's why they uh wanted to stay there for a couple weeks and lay low because they knew if they poked their head out, just as you mentioned, she said in that audio, that, you know, we should have never left the motel. I think they knew if they got out and about that they'd be spotted. Yeah, you know, Karen Stark joining me, New York psychologist joining us from Manhattan, it's Karen Stark with a C. Karen, I don't get it. You stay under. You're getting away with it. You're paid up for two weeks. You don't have to see anybody. You can stay in your motel room, order in, and play with

your sex toys. Nobody knows you're in there. You can put the do not disturb sign on the door. The maid won't come in there. You're golden, right? What in the world were they thinking? Going, I mean, it's not like he doesn't stick out like a sore thumb. He's six, nine. Well, when you think about it, Nancy, I mean, they might have had the best plan in the world, but now they are out there and actually trying to escape. And in a situation like that, you don't think all that clearly. I don't care how smart she is. Sooner or later, you're going to do something really ridiculous and get yourself caught. We see it all the time.

So here they decide to go to a car wash. We know his picture. They took the picture. And I'm even wondering why it took so long after there was a police officer there for the marshals to wind up finding out that they had spotted him. Guys, take a listen to our cut 39, our friends at WEVV Fox. It all started at James Stinson's car wash a week ago, where he saw a truck abandoned in one of the stalls. The windows are down, the doors are unlocked. My first thought, oh my God, this could be this guy from Alabama. He had the truck towed the next day. Fast forward

to Sunday night, his phone goes off. It's the U.S. Marshals confirming his suspicions. He said, did you have a car towed from your car lock? Yes, I did. I said, it's about that guy in Alabama. He said, yeah, it is. I said, yeah, they were there. Waiting for authorities to arrive, Stinson alerted 44 News Monday morning. 930, they didn't show up. I said, I'm calling Fox News. We were at the car wash minutes before U.S. Marshals. That's when Stinson showed us the surveillance video with 6'9 Casey White clearly visible.

You can see him standing by the blue F-150 stolen from Tennessee waiting for Vicki White. I see her circle back around in a cab like in Vicki a month, and then they leave together. U.S. Marshals shared some of the images in a press release alerting local law enforcement, bringing us back to the pursuit and capture of the fugitives. And more in our Cut 45. We recently found out that they'd been staying at a hotel down the road here. It used to be a Motel 6, and now I think it's changed names. And they had a 14-day stay there.

We were fortunate that during our investigation yesterday, and that was a police officer who was just doing his good diligence of patrolling and being smart, noticed the vehicle in the parking lot of the hotel and notified us immediately. So the task force members got together, they drove down there, set up surveillance on the hotel. Soon thereafter, the two suspects exited the hotel and fled out of the hotel parking lot. They fled out of the hotel parking lot and headed northbound on U.S. Highway 41. Take a listen to our cut 46 explaining it. The two suspects exited the hotel and fled out of the hotel parking lot northbound on US Highway 41.

Turned in at an industry known as Anchor here in Evansville. They went through the parking lot, went through a grass field. The members of the US Task Force basically rammed the vehicle and pushed it into a ditch. And we later found out had they not done that, the fugitive was going to engage in a shootout with law enforcement. So by our quick thinking, our actions, sometimes people may call that unnecessary action, but that action may have saved many of my deputies and fellow

law enforcement officers' lives. And that's why I represent the Sheriff's Office. I want to bring my people home, and I don't care about the fugitives' lives. I know that may sound harsh, but that is the view of law enforcement. They are trying to save the lives of their deputies and their people fighting crime and civilians. Not as worried about the fugitive. Sheriff Rick Singleton joining us, special guest, the elected sheriff in Lauderdale County. Sheriff, could you explain to me how it went down? So they go to the car wash and it is there that the defendant is caught on camera all six foot nine inches of him she pulls around and picks him up in the caddy they leave the f-150 there go back to the motel and that's when they are surveilled how did it all happen could you lay it out for us sheriff well you know a lot of it comes down to just basic good old fashioned police work.

You know, having the description of that Cadillac and my understanding is a patrol officer spotted that Cadillac in the parking lot. You know, it sort of reminds me of the Eric Rudolph case where a rookie police officer found him rummaging through a dumpster. You know, and that's that's the unique thing about this particular case. You know, usually when you have someone escape from a county jail, there's really no plan. You know, the only plan is get out. And then once they're out, they don't know what they're going to do. And so usually they're apprehended within a matter of hours, if not just a few days. But this was well thought out, well orchestrated.

They had all the resources they needed and um you know and i was thinking about that uh just this morning you know when you stop and think about it i mean this was like looking for a needle in a haystack they had almost a 72-hour lead on us before we got our first major lead and that was just identifying the car they left the shopping center in. They could have been anywhere in this country and when you start thinking about you're looking for two people that could be anywhere in the United States. I mean it's like looking for a needle in a haystack. We had no clue what direction they went in at that time.

We did find out late Sunday night that this was the car that they did leave here in turns out that car had been abandoned the day they left so uh you know when when got to it we didn't have it we're back square one didn't really have a lead but uh i'm i'm gonna tell you the united states marshall's fugitive task force uh that is a tremendous group of young men and women who do their job and do it very well. And my own investigators in the early hours of this investigation, I mean, they did a tremendous job of canvassing that shopping center, trying to develop some leads because we started with absolutely nothing. Well, I got to agree with you, Sheriff. I'm a big fan of the U.S. Marshals.

My longtime investigator, the first investigator I was assigned in the district attorney's office, big, huge guy, Robert McMichaels, he had a football ring. He had played football. And I remember when I lost him, he went to become the U.S. Marshal for the Northern District of Georgia. And just a great, great man, relentless, his whole team. That's when I first really learned what the U.S. Marshals do. So Sheriff, could you walk us through, if you don't mind, I know you know it like the back of your hand, but everybody wants to know how this thing went down. We know how they get out of the jail.

We know how she planned it for weeks and weeks and weeks. We know they left in the orange getaway car and that they swapped the patrol car with the getaway car in a shopping mall, shopping strip center. But then what happened? Well, they obviously headed north, you know, had trouble with that car, bought the truck from there, apparently went to Evansville. Okay, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait. You got me drinking out of the fire hydrant. Too much, too fast.

Yes, you told us you thought that orange getaway car ended up with a flat. So then they see, I guess, nearby somebody with the Ford F-150, the black truck, out in their yard for sale, and they get it. What, did they walk to that place? My understanding is just right there in the general area where the Ford Edge was abandoned. Uh-huh. So, yes, I think they probably walked and saw this truck in the yard for sale and bought it but uh you know the uh apparently they went there straight to evansville because my understanding is right i think that truck was run either on monday or tuesday by that

police officer up there uh reported by the car wash owner and of course it didn't come back stolen they got into cadillac checked into this motel and i really think the reason they did that and especially paying two weeks up front is that they were by now this has made national news uh their picture is plastered all over news stations all across the country on radio shows uh you know so they're out there and and and know that uh they're going to be easily spotted if they're out and about. He tells him we should have never left the hotel, you know, but they do. And I don't know where they were headed when they left the hotel Monday,

but wherever it was is a bad choice on their part. We know that the rooms in this, I think it was a quality inn, were very small, very bare, with an open closet. Not much was found in the room, but we also know that no one, none of the guests, saw Vicki White or her jailhouse lover leave, go in or out. So there had to be some form of delivery going in and out. I'm curious that the delivery person saw them, was suspicious because we also know that Vicki White had tried her best to alter her appearance, even using different wigs. In the end end she was recognized and it's believed she took her own life or did she listen these are her last words 911 They're going to airbag people. I can tell us. Hello?

Thank God. Airbags are going off. Let's get out. Run. Get us back to the hotel. I can tell us. Hello? You hear her say we should never have left the hotel.

We should get out and run. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Oh, God. Airbags are going off. Let's get out. Run. Get us back to the hotel. Oh, God. Hello? You hear her say we should never have left the hotel.

We should get out and run. Straight out to Sheriff Rick Singleton. Do you believe Vicki White took her own life? I think that's a possibility. My understanding is that that's what the local authorities there in Indiana think that the evidence leads up to. The thing about Vicki White, you know, she obviously was facing criminal charges back here, but knowing the Vicki I've known for the last seven years, I think she was more, I guess, distraught over having to come back here and face her family and friends as she was the charges. I think that she was loved by her co-workers and respected.

I think that played on her as much as the charges themselves. Of course, she's worked 17 years in an institution. She knows what it's like to live on the other side of the bars. That might have been a factor too. But I think there is a possibility. And my understanding is that they feel for, you know, pretty much certain that that happened. That she committed suicide? Yeah, I think they're pretty much convinced that's what happened. And I know they did an autopsy. I guess we'll know for sure when we get the results back from that. We have been told that in the end, she was found with a single gunshot wound

and that she still had the gun in her hand. Is that true, Sheriff? That's my understanding. I've seen some video clips where officers are at the car and they're talking about the gun in her hand and so forth. And the other thing I've heard about some reports that she called 911. My understanding is that when the vehicle wrecked, that the North Star automatically called 911. And that's what we're actually overhearing in their conversations. I don't think she actually knew she was being recorded by 911. Right.

I don't think she did either. That is how we get the recording that we've been playing for you, everybody, is the nav system within that vehicle, that Cadillac, started up a call upon the crash and call 911 is my understanding. To Dr. Tim Gallagher, medical examiner for the state of Florida, Dr. Gallagher, how common is it when someone commits suicide, and I believe she was shot in the head, that they can hold onto the gun? Well, that's typically what we find when somebody commits suicide that way

while they're in the seated position. So typically their hand would fall down to their side and because of primitive neurological actions that are still going on in their hand, their hand tends to clench. They tend to make a fist and then they make a fist around that gun. And it's still, it's still found in their hand, even with their fingers still pulled on the trigger.

So when you're, when you're standing, of course, that's not the case. Typically, typically they drop the gun and it could be on the right or the left side of them. But when they're sitting down or even when they're laying down on a bed, for instance, their hand clenches around that gun and they're often found with the gun still in their hand, their fingers still on the trigger. To Lenny DePaul, former U.S. Marshal Service Fugitive Task Force, Lenny, are you surprised that she killed herself? And do you think that she believed Casey White, her jailhouse lover, was going to shoot it out and die? That they would both go down in a blaze of glory? You know, Nancy, this 11-day manhunt, I was concerned about her all the way around. I mean, I didn't know how this thing was going to play out considering his background, his violence. I mean, he's doing life in prison, looking at a death penalty on another

case. In talking with the commanders in these task forces, I was going back and forth with them all week. And that was their biggest worry. How is this going to end? Was she going to become a hostage? Was it going to be suicide by cop? Was it a barricaded suspect situation? So these guys were hitting on all cylinders and, of course, anything out i'm a little surprised that she took her own life um if in fact that's the way uh it ends up i'm not sure i believe the autopsy is out it was released a few hours ago and and uh and it was a suicide and a self-inflicted gunshot wound but uh i do yeah i was i was a little worried and taking into consideration the weapons that were found in that vehicle, you know, and the cars that they were dumping, whether it was flat tires, mechanical issues. I don't think there were transport and provisions and weapons and everything into these cars.

They were probably paying cash for food. She was disguised, wearing wigs all the time, from what I understand from the investigators. So she might have went out, got food, came back, whatever, and was laying low, but she was definitely off the grid going dark for a little while. Don't believe they had any forms of communications, any devices, any cell phones from what I'm hearing, but you know, they had made ahead of plan B or plan C, but it didn't work out too well for them. I guarantee, you know, when Lenny DePaul said guns, they were armed to the hilt. Four handguns, semi-automatics, 9mm, known as the AR-15 that shoots 223 caliber rounds. Any of them could have been used to gun down a civilian or an officer. You know, Sheriff Singleton, your girl was conned.

She was conned. She thought this guy loved her and somehow she was going to live out some romantic fantasy, change him to make him a good person. I guarantee you, Sheriff, she thought they were going to have a suicide pact. Guarantee you that they had talked about going out together in a blaze of glory. But that is not how it went down. I absolutely agree with you. You know, how many times have we seen this happen in our jails and prisons,

you know, where especially a female corrections officer is conned and wooed, you know, and thinking that, you know uh that that they are somehow special to this inmate and you know casey white if you watch the footage of him i mean even at the scene there no no visible sign no body language of any remorse any any uh grief or whatever that his, quote, wife had just shot herself. You know, it just, like a lot of other things, you just don't understand why people keep falling for it. You know, Sheriff, go ahead, Karen Starr. He, in my mind, had a smirk on his face. He wasn't crying, as Sheriff Singleton is pointing out.

He's not moaning about his wife. Nothing. And I'm not surprised at all. When we talked the other day, I said, this man's off his meds. He's really dangerous. And there's not just physical abuse. There's emotional. I don't know how much he got her to believe that they were going to do this pot, just like the sheriff said, together and actually end their lives.

And I'm not surprised he was smirking because he's a guy who has no feeling. He can commit murder. So what wife? That's ridiculous. He could care less. Final thought to you, Sheriff Singleton. I'm glad he's off the street. You know, I appreciate all help uh uh especially from the media i think the media played a key role in driving them underground and you know once they lit somewhere for a while that gave our investigators time to follow up on the leads and and tips and actually locate them and we couldn't have done it without the media and without the tips from the public. That's true in any kind of criminal investigation. I mean, the public is so important.

And in a case like this, I can't stress enough the importance of the media cooperating and helping us get the word out there. I think it was a major factor. Justice unfolds as Casey White now facing life behind bars or worse. Nancy Grace, Crimeumstory signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.